The outfit was supposed to deploy in 2009 or 2010, but the troop surge in Iraq accelerated the schedule, said Col. Keith Sharples, a Noblesville infantry officer in the brigade.

Semper Fi
munciecarl

Meet The Press – Kerry & McCain Talk Iraq
http://beta.redlasso.com/Community/ClipPlayer.aspx?i=fc90713d-4bba-4831-b134-4dd9dcf6a76d

Meet The Press – Political Experts on ’08 Election / Iraq
http://beta.redlasso.com/Community/ClipPlayer.aspx?i=8ce66bd7-4ffd-42bf-b5f2-6fc5f22809e2

What “weakened standards” are you talking about ? The Geneva Convention articles were not adopted until Aug. 12, 1949, and were not entered into force until Oct. 21, 1950.

Comment by BARTLEBEE

So, you’re making the case that soldiers who were subject to all the provisions of the Geneva conventions treated their prisoners the same as today’s soldiers, who only observe a sort of “Geneva Lite?” By today’s weakened standards, it would be naive to think these soldiers haven’t commited acts for which their WW2 brethren would have been held fully accountable. They may not intend to be war criminals, but the Geneva conventions can’t be unilaterally redefined by a country – any country.

Comment by BARTLEBEE

And end up like Tillman, when your “buddies” see you horsing around in a firefight?

Though this will probably fall upon deaf ears nonetheless I will attempt to point out the error of your ways. You keep stating your tired and incorrect refrain that “soldiers follow orders.” I said it before but it appears that it bears repeating. The UCMJ states that soldiers have not only a right but a duty and an obligation NOT to obey illegal orders. The U.S. Army Field Manual 27-10 Section II-Crimes Under International Law sub section 498-504 clearly lay out that “Any person, whether a member of the armed forces or a civilian, who commits an act which constitutes a crime under international law is responsible therefor and liable to punishment. Such offenses in connection with war comprise:

a. Crimes against peace.
b. Crimes against humanity.
c. War crimes.

As one of the GIs correctly noted in Sir! No Sir!, being a clerk typist in a war ravaged country does not exonerate a soldier from speaking out and to realize that he is still part of a military that is oppressing a conquered country. You claim that “…its wrong of you to demand that they do.” You may want to try telling that to the Iraqis who have been brutalized and terrorized by the less than benevolent presence of the United States military. This occupation violates the Geneva Convention, the UN Charter, the U.S. Constitution, and the Nuremberg Principles. The soldiers, as witnessed by the GI resistance that took place during the Vietnam War, have it within their power, despite your flawed belief, to bring this illegal occupation to an end. Thankfully, there are people like Lt. Watada, Camilo Mejia, and other members of the IVAW who have had the integrity and courage to put their words into actions. As Lt. Watada wisely pointed out to myself and other veterans last year at the Veterans for Peace convention in Seattle:

“I speak with you about a radical idea. It is one born from the very concept of the American soldier [or service member]. It became instrumental in ending the Vietnam War-but it has long since forgotten The idea is this: that to stop an illegal and unjust war, the soldiers can choose to stop fighting it.”

Watada went on to point out that “Now it is not an easy task for the soldier. For he or she must be aware that they are being used for il-gain. They must hold themselves responsible for individual actions. They must remember duty to the Constitution and the people supersedes the ideologies of their leadership. The soldier must be willing to face ostracism by their peers, worry over the survival of their families and of course the loss of personal freedom. They must know that resisting an authoritarian government at home is equally important to fighting a foreign aggressor on the battlefield.”

He went on to say that “The American soldier must rise above the socialization that tells them authority should always be obeyed without question. Rank should be respected but never blindly followed.”

To someone like Bartlebee, if an officer commanded an enlisted person to jump off a mosque, that would be acceptable because a soldier’s job is to blindly follow orders. To an intelligent person that of course makes as much sense as blindly obeying an illegal order.

The lieutenant recalled a literary icon when he said “Mark Twain once remarked, ‘Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn’t. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country…’ By this, each and every American soldier, marine, airman, and sailor is responsible for their choices and actions. The freedom to choose is only one that we cah deny ourselves.”

Watada reminded the veterans that ‘The oath we take swears allegiance not to one man but to a document of principles and laws designed to protect the people. Enlisting in the military does not relinquish one’s right to seek the truth-neither does it excuse one from rational thought nor the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. ‘I was only following orders’ is never an excuse.

There is not one superfluous word in that excerpt ffrom Lt. Watada’s speech. Again, the hope is that more soldiers will follow his example and those brave military personnel in the film Sir! No Sir! by saying NO to the war machine of the United States.

The soldiers go where WE, the PEOPLE, tell them to go, through our elected leaders.

Comment by Erroll — September 16, 2007 @ 3:33 pm

Now you’re just out there.

We didn’t try the German soldiers at Nuremburg. Only the leaders complicit in the atrocities and some SS officers who were likewise notoriously complicit.

The soldiers who fought in the german army in WW2 were no more war criminals than our soldiers are.

You state that “A soldier refuses to serve in Iraq he can find himself in a military prison.” Did you have to ponder very long to reach that conclusion? Again, if had actually taken the time to see the film Sir! No Sir! you would have realized that all of the soldiers who participated in the GI movement were aware of that obvious truth. Dr. Howard Levy, for example, was found guilty of speaking out and served three years in prison.

Comment by Erroll — September 16, 2007 @ 3:33 pm

Well I don’t know about you chief, but if I were given the choice of serving three years in prison and being dishonorably discharged, or going to Iraq, I’d go to Iraq, and shoot my rifle up in the air.

I included myself in that equation slim, hence the term “us”. And what we should have done, was demand more, protest more, make more noise.

Because last time I checked, back in 03 most of the left wing was on board with the invasion. I wasn’t, and I’m sure you weren’t but most of the liberals in the country were just rolling over.

So no, I don’t think thats a little “self righteous”, although you seem to be a little sensitive in that area.

So booger, what is an Islamofascist That term makes no sense at all. Islam is a religion and here is the definition of a fascist:

Fascism..(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

So Islam is a religion and fascism is a governmental system. How can the Muslims you so want to hate be fascists? Where is their governmental system. How are they forcibly suppressing opposition and critics? How are they regimenting industry, commerce, etc. And how are they emphasizing an aggressive nationalism?

Wow, I just realized something (not really). Fascism seems to describe the government George Bush has created to a “T”.

Comment by dtis

Same goes for christian hypocrisy and christian fascism in the name of military industrial complex work…sh$t for brains…go enlist.

Comment by dtis — September 16, 2007 @ 5:04 pm

Mr P ALERT! Mr P ALERT!

Ask yourselves what this administration has been right about in the last six years. Have they ever lied to you you? Have they ever been honest about anything in the past six years? Compassionate Conservative. WMD. Last throes. Mushroom cloud. Think about this lying, incompetent bunch of cowards who cheer the death of our treasury for the profits of their cronies. Impeach and turn over to the Hague for war crime trials.

Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 16, 2007 @ 2:36 pm

Little on the self-righteous side, Bart. What were we supposed to do, start shooting at F-16s when they go ovr head?