Comments on: Harman On Need To Amend FISA: ‘Congress Is On Trial Here,’ We Have To Correct Our Mistake http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:51:57 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084363 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:58:11 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084363 The supreme court ,Jake, is made up of very fallible people .They have made very bad decisions before and reversed them later .The rights we are discussing are inalienable and bestowed upon all men and women by a higher authority than a courtroom of Lawyers .The privledged may want to remember that these rights have been worth dying for ,and that history shows despite every setback the march toward freedom is relentless . The supreme court ,Jake, is made up of very fallible people .They have made very bad decisions before and reversed them later .The rights we are discussing are inalienable and bestowed upon all men and women by a higher authority than a courtroom of Lawyers .The privledged may want to remember that these rights have been worth dying for ,and that history shows despite every setback the march toward freedom is relentless .

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084337 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:43:35 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084337 How about domestic terrorists ,like those Quakers the FBI spied on in Vermont and Florida or Anti war protesters or enviromentalists ,or bloggers ,is it allright to imprison them without a trial ,hold them without charges or try them on secret evidence outside our justice system ? What if the charges are false or trumped up ? What if they're Your family members ,Jake would you support that because this law makes that a very real possibility, in the future .What if the charges were leveled because your son or daughter spoke truth to the very powerful or accused them of war crimes or treason ? Those who are willing to waive essential liberties for the sake of a little safety ,deserve neither . Ben franklin How about domestic terrorists ,like those Quakers the FBI spied on in Vermont and Florida or Anti war protesters or enviromentalists ,or bloggers ,is it allright to imprison them without a trial ,hold them without charges or try them on secret evidence outside our justice system ?
What if the charges are false or trumped up ?
What if they’re Your family members ,Jake would you support that because this law makes that a very real possibility, in the future .What if the charges were leveled because your son or daughter spoke truth to the very powerful or accused them of war crimes or treason ?
Those who are willing to waive essential liberties for the sake of a little safety ,deserve neither . Ben franklin

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084309 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:26:44 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084309 If a family member of yours is wrongly accused of a crime ,of which they had no part ,under the law, as it now stands ,they could be held without charges ,never be allowed an opportunity to face the accusations ,and tried on secret evidence . This has already been done to American citizens . If a family member of yours is wrongly accused of a crime ,of which they had no part ,under the law, as it now stands ,they could be held without charges ,never be allowed an opportunity to face the accusations ,and tried on secret evidence . This has already been done to American citizens .

]]> By: TheToonGuy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084304 TheToonGuy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:24:09 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084304 Might as well, freeman. Much better to talk to a brick wall than a troll. The only difference is that the brick wall doesn't sound as stupid. Might as well, freeman. Much better to talk to a brick wall than a troll. The only difference is that the brick wall doesn’t sound as stupid.

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084299 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:20:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084299 Jake , no I have never posted under another name at TP and you will trust your families basic rights entirely to elected officials now and in the future ,so why did we ever need a constitution and basic rights in the first place .If your actually going to make the case for that then I may as well ignore you anyway because you haven't the intellect needed for a serious discussion of current events and thats the polite version. We might as well have a dictator or a king if you believe that argument . Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely ,which is the reason the constitution was written in the first place ! Jake ,
no I have never posted under another name at TP and you will trust your families basic rights entirely to elected officials now and in the future ,so why did we ever need a constitution and basic rights in the first place .If your actually going to make the case for that then I may as well ignore you anyway because you haven’t the intellect needed for a serious discussion of current events and thats the polite version.
We might as well have a dictator or a king if you believe that argument . Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely ,which is the reason the constitution was written in the first place !

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084274 Marie Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:02:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084274 Janey, I am losing confidence in you. Bushie pulled a fast one on you and your colleagues in 2002 and he has continued to make fools of you ever since. Why are the rest of us out here in America wiser than you - is there something in the D.C. water that prevents your full brain to function? We need representation in congress -- we don't need acquiescence to Bush&Co. How many more times will you be played like a fiddle? Do the job for which you are elected and paid. Janey, I am losing confidence in you.
Bushie pulled a fast one on you and your colleagues in 2002 and he has continued to make fools of you ever since.
Why are the rest of us out here in America wiser than you – is there something in the D.C. water that prevents your full brain to function?
We need representation in congress — we don’t need acquiescence to Bush&Co.
How many more times will you be played like a fiddle?
Do the job for which you are elected and paid.

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084205 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:39:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084205 Always have been, always will be a FREE MAN ,whatever scratches the lawyers make on paper ! Always have been, always will be a FREE MAN ,whatever scratches the lawyers make on paper !

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084200 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:37:17 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084200 No thanks, freeman — I’ll trust President Bush much more than I will those on the “Ignore List” : ) no jake you'll be trusting every elected president and his or her appointees to homeland insecurity as long as this law remains viable ! You'll trust your fate and your families to strangers in the government,are you that naive ? No thanks, freeman — I’ll trust President Bush much more than I will those on the “Ignore List” : )

no jake you’ll be trusting every elected president and his or her appointees to homeland insecurity as long as this law remains viable !
You’ll trust your fate and your families to strangers in the government,are you that naive ?

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084188 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:32:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084188 Hey Jose For the record Americans can have their rights tossed away if declared enemies of the state and if the charges are false ,NEVER GET THEIR DAY IN COURT ! This law applies to Americans as well as foreigners , it could apply to you and yours if the climate changes here or Hillary Clinton decides your a threat or just doesn't carre for your politics . Hey Jose
For the record Americans can have their rights tossed away if declared enemies of the state and if the charges are false ,NEVER GET THEIR DAY IN COURT !
This law applies to Americans as well as foreigners , it could apply to you and yours if the climate changes here or Hillary Clinton decides your a threat or just doesn’t carre for your politics .

]]> By: Buckie Boy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084182 Buckie Boy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:29:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084182 Congratulations TheToonGuy - it is a badge of honor to be on the Ignore list.. 8-) Buck Fush Congratulations TheToonGuy – it is a badge of honor to be on the Ignore list.. 8-)

Buck Fush

]]> By: TheToonGuy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084178 TheToonGuy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:27:40 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084178 Clearly freeman, some people have diffculty understanding the difference between suspected and convicted. Clearly freeman, some people have diffculty understanding the difference between suspected and convicted.

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084176 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:26:15 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084176 History has shown there never was really any need for basic rights ,habeas corpus or the constitution,because we can trust power ? Your allright with my family being spied upon ,despite it's being an obvious violation of my constitutionally guaranteed rights ,so why not trust all the posters at TP with your own personal information I strongly suspect you have no problems as long as I'm the one being spied upon and it isn't you . History has shown there never was really any need for basic rights ,habeas corpus or the constitution,because we can trust power ?
Your allright with my family being spied upon ,despite it’s being an obvious violation of my constitutionally guaranteed rights ,so why not trust all the posters at TP with your own personal information
I strongly suspect you have no problems as long as I’m the one being spied upon and it isn’t you .

]]> By: TheToonGuy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084173 TheToonGuy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:25:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084173 Woohoo!!! I'm on the ignore list! I'm so happy! In accepting this honor, I can only endeavor to return the favor. And work tirelessly until everybody is on the ignore list and the owner of said list is only talking with himself. Woohoo!!! I’m on the ignore list! I’m so happy! In accepting this honor, I can only endeavor to return the favor. And work tirelessly until everybody is on the ignore list and the owner of said list is only talking with himself.

]]> By: TheToonGuy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084165 TheToonGuy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:22:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084165 Forget it. My challenge was simply a means to get folks to realize that we all have stuff we'd rather not let other people know. And that until we are convicted in a court of law, we are all entitled to protections guaranteed under the constitution. If the poster in question believed what he said, he would've found a way to meet the challenge and gladly done so. The fact that he did not, just goes to prove my point. For the record, I don't want the private information of anyone posting here. I wouldn't know what to do with it if I had it. Forget it. My challenge was simply a means to get folks to realize that we all have stuff we’d rather not let other people know. And that until we are convicted in a court of law, we are all entitled to protections guaranteed under the constitution.

If the poster in question believed what he said, he would’ve found a way to meet the challenge and gladly done so. The fact that he did not, just goes to prove my point.

For the record, I don’t want the private information of anyone posting here. I wouldn’t know what to do with it if I had it.

]]> By: RUCerious http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084155 RUCerious Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:19:32 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084155 All the Dems need to do is revert the FISA back to a warrant-ful as opposed to warrant-less system. Period. Hey, we'll even throw in the old 72 hour grace period! For Free! And if the Congress acts right now, we'll even consider voting them back for another term in 08.. And we'll pay the shipping and handling! All the Dems need to do is revert the FISA back to a warrant-ful as opposed to warrant-less system. Period.
Hey, we’ll even throw in the old 72 hour grace period! For Free!

And if the Congress acts right now, we’ll even consider voting them back for another term in 08.. And we’ll pay the shipping and handling!

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084153 freeman Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:18:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084153 Its a pretty good comparison Jake ,If you have nothing to hide share your personal information with strangers .My wife is German and I communicate regularly call overseas .If you approve of the government spying and collecting info on my family and I ,then put your money where your mouth is and trust us with YOUR name and address . Its a pretty good comparison Jake ,If you have nothing to hide share your personal information with strangers .My wife is German and I communicate regularly call overseas .If you approve of the government spying and collecting info on my family and I ,then put your money where your mouth is and trust us with YOUR name and address .

]]> By: TripMaster Monkey http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084147 TripMaster Monkey Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:14:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084147 Jake D. sez: <blockquote><em>You agree to . . . [r]espect other Bloggers - please do not threaten, insult, abuse, intimidate or harass other Blog users.</em></blockquote> According to this clause, you violate the TOS every time you post, Shakey. Every time you try to float your ridiculous lies, you insult our intelligence, and you abuse our patience. Jake D. sez:

You agree to . . . [r]espect other Bloggers – please do not threaten, insult, abuse, intimidate or harass other Blog users.

According to this clause, you violate the TOS every time you post, Shakey.

Every time you try to float your ridiculous lies, you insult our intelligence, and you abuse our patience.

]]> By: TheToonGuy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084146 TheToonGuy Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:13:37 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084146 Okay, I'm tired of this game. There's no way to inject empathy into the troll. He doesn't get it, he never will. Okay, I’m tired of this game. There’s no way to inject empathy into the troll. He doesn’t get it, he never will.

]]> By: gummitch http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084145 gummitch Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:12:44 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084145 <em>You agree to . . . [r]espect other Bloggers - please do not threaten, insult, abuse, intimidate or harass other Blog users. Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 4:10 pm</em> Like calling them "Defeatocrats"? You agree to . . . [r]espect other Bloggers – please do not threaten, insult, abuse, intimidate or harass other Blog users.

Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 4:10 pm

Like calling them “Defeatocrats”?

]]> By: TripMaster Monkey http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/comment-page-2/#comment-4084143 TripMaster Monkey Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:12:21 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084143 Jake D. sez: <blockquote><em>For the record, when I signed up to post here, I agreed to not post any private information, period.</em></blockquote> For the record, your argument against posting your own information by invoking TP's Terms of Use lies in tatters at <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/19/harman-interview-2/#comment-4084130" rel="nofollow">post #49</a>. If you signed a different agreement, which prohibits you from posting <i>any</i> personal information, be it of others or yourself, then we have a different problem: Some time ago you posted a bio, ostensibly of yourself, which was later revealed to be a fake. However, you steadfastly claim that that bio was your own. It would seem that you've then violated this alleged "alternate agreement" you signed when you signed up to post here. Either you did sign this "alternate agreement", and you've subsequently violated it, or you've simply made up the whole business of an "alternate agreement". Either way, your argument is shredded (again). Again, TheToonGuy’s challenge <i>still</i> stands. Jake D. sez:

For the record, when I signed up to post here, I agreed to not post any private information, period.

For the record, your argument against posting your own information by invoking TP’s Terms of Use lies in tatters at post #49.

If you signed a different agreement, which prohibits you from posting any personal information, be it of others or yourself, then we have a different problem:

Some time ago you posted a bio, ostensibly of yourself, which was later revealed to be a fake. However, you steadfastly claim that that bio was your own.

It would seem that you’ve then violated this alleged “alternate agreement” you signed when you signed up to post here.

Either you did sign this “alternate agreement”, and you’ve subsequently violated it, or you’ve simply made up the whole business of an “alternate agreement”. Either way, your argument is shredded (again).

Again, TheToonGuy’s challenge still stands.

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