ThinkFast: September 19, 2007
ThinkFast: September 19, 2007
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“Unable to garner enough Republican support, Senate Democratic leaders said yesterday that they are abandoning a bipartisan effort to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq by next spring.” Instead, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is expected to push for a firm deadline, this time June 2008. “It’s all definite timelines,” Reid said.
Sen. John Warner (R-VA) suggested yesterday that he may pull his support for Sen. Jim Webb’s (D-VA) measure to give the overstretched armed forces more rest. Warner voted for the measure last July, but he now claims to be appeased by the administration’s token withdrawal. Call your Senators and demand their support for Webb’s pro-troop amendment.
29: President Bush’s approval rating in the latest Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday, which is “below his worst Zogby poll mark of 30 percent in March.”
“A preliminary Iraqi report on a shooting involving” private security firm Blackwater USA says the company’s employees “were not ambushed, as the company reported, but instead fired at a car when it did not heed a policeman’s call to stop, killing a couple and their infant.” The Iraqi Interior Ministry says it has revoked Blackwater’s license over the incident.
The U.S. military has introduced “religious enlightenment” programs for Iraqi detainees. The commander of U.S. detention facilities said the effort is intended to “bend them back to our will.” It is also an effort to identify “irreconcilables” and “put them away” in permanent detention facilities.
Israel has enforced a news blackout on a recent air strike inside Syria. “The Israeli government has made no comment about the raid on what is believed to be a nuclear installation in Syria and Israeli newspapers have been forbidden to write anything on the subject.”
Iraq is the “bank robbery capital of the world,” holding the record for the “first and second highest amounts taken in the history of bank robberies.”
Yesterday, Maryland’s highest court overturned a lower court’s ruling and rejected same sex marriage. In a “sharp dissent,” Chief Judge Robert M. Bell “dismissed the majority view that gays are politically empowered” and therefore not entitled to “special protection from discrimination.”
And finally: Ellen DeGeneres “has been trying in vain to get CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on her show, even calling his studio during his broadcast.” On Monday, Blitzer said on The Situation Room, “Of course I’ll be on your show, and I’d love you to come on my show as well.” But that wasn’t enough. So yesterday, DeGeneres had MSNBC host Chris Matthews call in to her show, while the screen read, “Ellen’s on the phone with Chris Matthews because Wolf Blitzer wouldn’t take her call.”
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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“A preliminary Iraqi report on a shooting involving†private security firm Blackwater USA says the company’s employees “were not ambushed, as the company reported, but instead fired at a car when it did not heed a policeman’s call to stop, killing a couple and their infant.†The Iraqi Interior Ministry says it has revoked Blackwater’s license over the incident.
Death toll from this latest trigger-happy bullsh!t stands at 20.
Of course, nothing whatsoever will happen to these mercs. Their contract states quite clearly that they bear no responsibility for anything.
What a wonderful message to send to the rest of the world. How uniquely American.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:07 amThe Republicans are leary because of timelines. We have heard this excuse for 4 years. George Bush and others have said. "There can be no victory without an exit strategy.
I ask them then: What is the exit strategy? And I dont mean stay the course of 6 month hop scotch.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:10 amAnother dismal day of Bush Regime nonsense and stupidity.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:12 amLook Boss! Dee plan..Dee plan! Dee plan is working!
September 19th, 2007 at 9:21 am"Blackwater" -- it means never having to say you're sorry...
And reports this morning are that the Iraqi government no longer is saying it's cancelling Blackwater's license to operate in the country -- only suspending it pending "further investigation". Translation: BushCo is telling their puppet Iraqi government not to make too much trouble for Blackwater "or else"...
September 19th, 2007 at 9:21 amIf Congress truly represents the mandate of the people during the midterms, then they have three cards left in their hand:
1) The purse strings of the continuation of this amoral, vulgar war.
2) The rejection of more abusive spying powers by this administration
3) The refusal to confirm the new AG until Bush hands over ALL DOJ documents and emails requested. If they're concerned about playing "politics" with this, they are seriously deluded.
It's high time that Congress BEGAN playing Bush's game and play for 'The People'! It's high time that congress stop destroying their own credibility by the charade called "withdrawal times". We know this is playing into Bush's hands when they do this. Their charade is clear.
Funding only that which is necessary to bring the troops safely home is essential right now. If they fail to represent the will of the majority of americans RIGHT NOW, they and their candidates deserve to not gain the white house in 08. We've placed our faith and trust in these democrats and how are they performing for us right now? Abysmally, I'd say.
Regardless of whether they feel they have a majority or not, it's essential that shenanigans the likes of which Harry Reid just performed on this thread need to be stopped. Gutless, spineless, and now "complicit" in this nightmare called Iraq. If the Dems truly want to separate themselves for Bush's mess and not have it become "their mess" as well, then it's high time they stood their ground. Whimps, all of them.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:22 amIt's about time TP got a rating system. Maybe this will weed out the conspiracy addicts. That's you, Ace.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:23 amBlackwater is the outsourcing of nazi death squads just as we outsource our long-distance brand of torture. However, those employing anyone who violates the law is equally responsible under the law. When you hire a hit man and are discovered, the employer as well as the one carrying out the crime are equally quilty. Now it's time to hold Bushco responsible for the outsourcing of torture (we do not torture - hah! Nice try, Bushco! We employ those who do torture which is just as evil. It's also time to hold Bushco responsible for Blackwater's brand of murder.
Blood for Oil = Bush's mantra.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:25 amGyn lover: So much for second amendment, right? What constitution are you living under?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:25 amIf anyone gets "weeded out", it will be trolls like yourself, GynLover.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:27 amYarrr, on a lighter note. Global Warming be solved for the day at least, due to the increase in pirates. Happy September 19th everyone.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:28 am29: President Bush’s approval rating in the latest Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday, which is “below his worst Zogby poll mark of 30 percent in March.â€
Geez, and so soon after his normal propaganda, bull shit address.
Methinks people are finally waking up in this country. Slowly, as if from a coma, but they are waking up!!!
September 19th, 2007 at 9:30 amAhhhh, " religious enlightenment"- how novel an idea- like National Lampoon's "Cuban baseball camps", to de-gay kids, Ted Haggard's 2-week 'straight camp', lesseee, maybe the auto de fe, or maybe we kin git 'em to pledge to Christ while we're at it.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:30 amThe Nazis had nothing on these dirtbags- I'm sure we'll hear the truth about what goes on on in there someday and I bet it won't be pretty.
Somebody, please, STOP this- its' way, way beyond insanity.
ooo pretty new comments! :D
September 19th, 2007 at 9:32 amIts time to take a page from the republican playbook and rename the Webb Amendment to The Military Recovery Act, Support our Troops Amendment, Military Readiness Act or Military Recuperation Act (like the right did with the warrantless wiretapping to Terrorist Surveillance Program). The point is to give it a self-explanatory name so that when republicans filibuster or vote no, the MSM commentators will report that the republicans voted against the “Troop Readiness Act†etc, not against the Webb amendment. That just takes too much explaining.
The Democrats make it too easy for the Republicans to be on the offense. The Webb Amendment has been described as a political ploy; a backdoor way to tie the Presidents hands. The Democrats have to explain what the Webb Amendment is, then defend it. The headline ‘Warner reconsidering support for the Webb Amendment’ (which imho is lost on the general public. At this juncture the public doesn’t don’t know the details of the Webb amendment. When the Senator has to post a video explaining the amendment we are already on the defensive.) It would be much more powerful if it read ‘Warner reconsiders Troop Readiness Amendment’.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:32 am'Ellen DeGeneres “has been trying in vain to get CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on her show, even calling his studio during his broadcast.†On Monday, Blitzer said on The Situation Room, “Of course I’ll be on your show, and I’d love you to come on my show as well.†....â€.
Ummm, no offense, TP...But, so what? Why is this item here?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:33 amArrrr, can we change the tiny red flags to 'Jolly Rogers' nothing be more abusive than a pirate
September 19th, 2007 at 9:37 amI'm not a troll and TP is not hurting your second amendment rights.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:38 amI don't even know you dude quit talking to me like that.
“Unable to garner enough Republican support, Senate Democratic leaders said yesterday that they are abandoning a bipartisan effort to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq by next spring.â€
For the life of me I will never understand what is wrong with the Democrats. They have 70% of the American public behind them on this issue and yet they can't take a stand. Oh how I wish someone would start a new "Progressive" party. I would love to belong to a party that has the courage of their convictions and are willing to stand up for those convictions rather than the Democratic party that seems to be trying to imitate the Republican party.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:40 amWhat better way to imbue the Iraqis with a spirit of religious tolerance than to force prisoners held by the United States into espousing particular interpretations of Islam under threat?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:41 amWarner voted for the measure last July, but he now claims to be appeased by the administration’s token withdrawal.
Well, since he is not running for re-election, he can tow the party line for the remainder of his term. That will land him a cushy job when he is no longer in the Senate. I'm fairly sure he got an earful from his constituents while he was on vacation and knew that he wouldn't be re-elected anyway, so he says he won't run again.
Too bad he's not like Chuck Hagel who seems to be continuing to have the courage of his convictions once he says he won't run again.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:42 amHow uniquely American.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 19, 2007 @ 9:07 am
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "how uniquely REPUBLICAN", TMM
September 19th, 2007 at 9:43 amThank God Maryland’s highest court overturned a lower court’s ruling and rejected same sex marriage.
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 9:42 am
sarc/on
September 19th, 2007 at 9:44 amOh, absolutely. Think of all the heterosexual marriages in Maryland that have been salvaged as a result.
sarc/off
This oughta send P into a full blown, face down, arm flailing hizzy fit.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:44 amIsraeli news isnt as subservient as the American news (then again who is?)... Haaretz has had at least one story on the Syria bombing so far that I have seen...
September 19th, 2007 at 9:44 amThe Iraqi Interior Ministry says it has revoked Blackwater’s license over the incident.
Anyone want to bet that this does not stand. It's my understanding that Condi Rice called Maliki and told him that we were "sorry" and that he couldn't revoke their license.
Do some research on Blackwater. That is one scary group. It is run by fundamentalists who in any other day and age would be considered to be akin to Timothy McVeigh.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:44 amPretty hateful, Daryll. I can't imagine "God"... **cough...cough** actually approves of this.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:45 amIt is horrible watching the U.S. Military get its honor flushed down the toilet... invading a country that did not and could not attack America and then "bending the people of Iraq to our will"... in THEIR HOME LAND... how much more shameful is this going to get?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:45 amThe commander of U.S. detention facilities said the effort is intended to “bend them back to our will.†It is also an effort to identify “irreconcilables†and “put them away†in permanent detention facilities.
This is beyond scary. What are they telling them, convert to Christianity or we will put you away forever. I really wish that there was no religion on this earth. Religion has been the basis of too many unspeakable crimes and wars on this earth. I'm proud to say that I am an Atheist and that my will is my own and I can make up my mind without having to consult a "higher being".
September 19th, 2007 at 9:47 amThink of all the heterosexual marriages in Maryland that have been salvaged as a result.
sarc/off
Comment by missmolly — September 19, 2007 @ 9:44 am
Think of all the REPUBLICAN marriages that have been salvaged, missmolly!
September 19th, 2007 at 9:47 amIsrael has enforced a news blackout on a recent air strike inside Syria.
They have learned well from Bush. I am beginning to wish that Israel's government was wiped off the face of the earth. They are beyond evil.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:48 am"... without having to consult a “higher beingâ€."
Recommend | Report Abuse
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 19, 2007 @ 9:47 am
What? No Big Mother?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:48 amDaryll sez:
Now there's an image I didn't need...
Considering the source, this is highly amusing. Daryll, you need rehabilitation every bit as much as these Iraqi detainees, for exactly the same reasons.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:49 amMarriage exists only because women and the men who feel it gives them control over sex. I can't believe grown men sit around and think about who should and should not marry!
September 19th, 2007 at 9:52 amMarriage is a contract with the government, and should be denied to all or made accessible to all.
And finally: Ellen DeGeneres “has been trying in vain to get CNN’s Wolf Blitzer on her show, even calling his studio during his broadcast.â€
I would love to see Ellen get Wolfie on her show. She will make mincemeat out of him. He's such a putz.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:52 amYou can stock up on the cocoa butter in Copacabana this December,
September 19th, 2007 at 9:53 amDaryll.
Yeah bilbo in Egypt they are throwing reporters in jail for reporting on leadership change. There's a thin line, huh?
September 19th, 2007 at 9:53 amDaryll
This butters my soul.
I've always been a bigger fan of Jelly. I hope when the Army catches you, they put you thru a 'Spreadables' re-education program, makes you more malleable(ie, more easy to spread) in the ways of bread toppings.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:54 amAs bad as Iraq is, it's only more infuriating to realize just how F-in' big the Blackwater contingent over there is. We've been sold this war over and over againt as something our military can win, that a 'surge" of 30,000 additional troops would turn the tide.
All said and done, we can't control the area w/ twice as many armed gunmen on the ground as we were led to believe we had over there. It could be said BushCo knew all along the US military didn't have the numbers to do this, and they've been using them as a "front" for Blackwater. Just infuriating.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:54 am"... in the ways of bread toppings."
Comment by Squegeeboo — September 19, 2007 @ 9:54 am
That would be "Shedd Spread" in this case, the well-known "Country Crock".
September 19th, 2007 at 9:56 amPlease stop being so negative, and try Jesus.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:55 am
Plese stop being so delusional and try "Reality"...
September 19th, 2007 at 9:57 amThe attack had been planned with military precision. Twelve men, masked and carrying Kalashnikov assault rifles stormed into th' al-Sanik branch o' th' Buried treasure o' Baghdad, disarmed th' guards, tied them up and then terrified th' staff by firing into th' ceiling. About $800,000 in US dollars and Iraqi dinars was grabbed before th' gang drove away in three cars, untroubled by th' many checkpoints in th' area.
Translated with pirate-y goodness.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:58 amBilbobaggins: When Bush schmoozed the religious right, he entered us into the world of holy war. He even, quite intentionally, used the term "crusade" early in his term. It's fact and not fiction that most wars every conducted had to do with "religion" which, at it's base, should be about the "golden rule" (do unto others). But in the attempt to define one's religious beliefs, separation and ultimate discrimination come into play in the definition process. It occurs within all religious sects even Unity and some of the more secular spiritual camps. It's impossible to define one's religious dogma without saying what "one is not" and when we stoop to comparing what we are not (subtle condemnation of what others "are"), then we've already lost our way.
Unfortunately, this occurs in every religious group and has since man began using religion as a military or political tool.
When Bush actively seduced the religious right via hot button topics like gays and god, it was the beginning of the end in this country. We've always maintained a healthy separation of church & state as well as the founding fathers who designed this democracy with a necessary and vital 'separation of powers' to ensure it's longevity - now we've blurred all of those lines. Spirituality is now reduced to a military level which means it's ultimate demise. Sad but true.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:58 amIt is great to see that we our trying to uphold God’s law on the sanctity of marriage in the Metro DC area. Keep it up and spread the word to other states/countries!
Comment by Daryll
"God's Law"? Wow, you are one scary dude. God does not make laws, our government makes laws. You can live under the laws the God you worship lays down for you but you have no right to expect everyone else in the world to follow your "God's" laws. And, in case you didn't know it, under your "God's Law", Gays are God's children too, therefore they should have the same rights you do Darryl.
September 19th, 2007 at 9:58 amWrong, OBGYN, it is a covenant to God. When same-sex couples can physically create and embryo then I may change my mind (it will never happen). Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders.
Comment by Daryll
It is a covenant with YOUR God Darryl. Plus, you and your ilk have no right to impose YOUR God on our government. If we could somehow transport every fundamentalist Christian to another planet where they can live amongst their own, this country would be a much better place. Actually, the world would be a much better place.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:00 am#52 Before leaving, I caught a glimpse of something heretical which you've stated....that "marriage is a contract with the government"??? I do hope you're kidding. First and foremost, marriage is a contract between two willing partners, witnessed by the government. It is definitely NOT a government contract unless you're speaking of communism.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:01 amJake D sez:
First of all, Shakey, it's "sulfur". It's interesting that you couldn't spell this word right, since a) I would assume a 75-year old man would be better schooled, and b) I'm sure the word is spelled correctly in your Bible.
Second, prove it. Prove that "God rained down sulfer to kill homosexuals". Show your work.
(Hint: passages in a book assembled centuries ago from several, sometimes clearly contradictory, apocryphal works, and rewritten and translated innumerable times since, does not constitute "proof".)
Daryll, if you're still around, I invite you to weigh in as well, since Shakey will doubtless hide behind his infantile "ignore list".
September 19th, 2007 at 10:01 amsarc/on
Oh, yeah, “Godâ€â€¦ **cough…cough** never, EVER, rained down sulfer to kill homosexuals either.
sarc/off
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Peculiar language for a... **cough... cough**... 70 r old. sarc/off.
For the record, I don't think Jake is even a real person. Can't even keep his own age straight.
As for "God raining down sulfur on homosexuals", ya'd think Repubes would behave a little better, huh, seeing how so many of them are...
**Christians**, or claim to be. Me? I don't believe in fairytales anymore.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:01 am#56 Please tell your wife not to forget the poisoned Kool-Aid when you go.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:01 amPlease stop being so negative, and try Jesus.
Comment by Daryll
Please stop trying to cram your Jesus down our throats. You are an intolerant religious freak. Go away.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:02 amRepublic: The Republicans now exist only in fairytales and their own dreams. The GOP is tanking with a 28% voter registration right now. They've well on their way to extinction.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:02 amHeres a question for ya Daryll. When did the Prince of Peace become a Lord of war?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:04 amYou must be quite pleased with the rejection of a Representative Seat for Washington DC,
September 19th, 2007 at 10:05 amDaryll.
Your privileged neighborhood is secured from the huddled masses who might swarm across the river, and now you're safe from the threat of same sex couples infiltrating your food chain.
Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
There are no "Biblical laws" in this country. Geez, talk about the American Taliban... and as far as I know, Bush hasn't issued any Exec Orders around gay marriage. Can't imagine why he hasn't tried, though...
September 19th, 2007 at 10:05 amDaryll sez:
Prove it. Prove your god is right and theirs is wrong.
I'm 'in denial'. that's rich...
'Liberate' the Iraqis? Is that what we're calling killing over a million of them so far? Don't forget the depleted uranium we've sown their soil with as well, insuring that the Iraqi people will live in misery forever.
Sometimes, you really sicken me, Daryll.
I don't want any part of your 'Jesus', Daryll, and I strongly suspect that the actual Jesus feels the same way.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:08 amOh, yeah, “Godâ€â€¦ **cough…cough** never, EVER, rained down sulfer to kill homosexuals either.
sarc/off
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 9:53 am
And you are equating Sodom and Gomorrah -- towns filled with hedonists concerned only with their own pleasure regardless of who else got hurt, and who engaged in homosexual debauchery as well as heterosexual -- with committed monogamous gay people who merely want the same marriage rights as heterosexuals. If you were to make a similar comparison on the hetersexual side, it would be like comparing hedonist Hugh Hefner to committed monogamists Billy and Ruth Graham.
The story of Lot has long been used by people who wish to justify their fear and bigotry toward homosexuality in general. But I know from past experience with dealing with people of your viewpoint there is nothing I can say that will change your mind.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:08 ammissmolly
The story of Lot
AArrrrr, and don't forget me favorite bible story, The story of Little
September 19th, 2007 at 10:09 amI did a search of TP to look for the Jena (in Louisiana) six. There is no reference at all. There are two references to Jenna Bush. The story does have some traction in the MSM, but I guess TP thinks that it is too hot.
Given the story on the religious enlightenment camps, how are we different than Saddam Hussein with imprisonment or the Communist regimes with their re-education camps?
I agree with others, Maliki reviewing the mercenaries' contracts means that kindasleezy's call to "apologize" was a threat. A "review" gives the Iraq sockpuppets a way to wiggle out. There will be no one actually punished for these murders.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:09 amI would assume a 75-year old man would be better schooled,
And a graduate of Stanford law school....
Greatest generation? Jake? ROTFLMAO.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:09 amWrong, OBGYN, it is a covenant to God. When same-sex couples can physically create and embryo then I may change my mind (it will never happen). Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
Within some religions, marriage is a sacrament. What Darryl (who selectively follows those of "God's laws" which are convenient to him and ignores others) fails to recognize is that marriages in these United States are certified by the State and do not require any religious content at all. You know, Darryl, the "marriage license".
We do not have "Biblical/Constitutional laws" here, but it is interesting that you have kept "Executive Orders" distinct from "Constitutional". You're beginning to understand how unConstitutional this administration is.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:09 amAs Louis Black once said, we're free to persue our dreams, as long as those dreams don't make Midwesterners feel "icky."
September 19th, 2007 at 10:11 amComment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 10:05 am
But this is a freedom operation Jake. Besides that Jesus didnt write.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:12 amI am beginning to wish that Israel’s government was wiped off the face of the earth. They are beyond evil.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 19, 2007 @ 9:48 am
You know, Iranian President Ahmadinejad said the same thing, and after some lousy translations they're all claiming he said he wants to kill all israelis.
So be careful of lousy translations.
Yarrrr!!!
September 19th, 2007 at 10:12 amThe story of Lot has long been used by people who wish to justify their fear and bigotry toward homosexuality in general. But I know from past experience with dealing with people of your viewpoint there is nothing I can say that will change your mind.
Comment by missmolly — September 19, 2007 @ 10:08 am
It's a creepy story, anyway. Lot was perfectly willing to throw his underage virgin daughters to the crowd (of crazed homos?) in order to protect his guests. A real sweetie.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:13 amJake D. sez:
Oh, goody, it's the "Romans 13" canard again.
Here’s a link to an article that quickly and concisely demolishes the interpretation of Romans 13 as a command to slavishly obey whatever authority happens to be in power at the moment.
Shakey, you’d do well to read this article before you persist in your foolishness.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:13 amSorry, my wife and I will be there on a mission on behalf of Jesus. We will be there to save souls, help them divert from their wicked ways and tell them what thus saith the Lord. We may use some of your party’s liberal lies as examples.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:01 am
Daryll,
Why can't this God thing you talk about save these souls himself? Does he not love them? Does he take orders from you as to which should be saved?
I'm sorry. I just don't buy the ridiculous idea that there's some big man-like creature up in the sky that looks down and sees all that we do and can even hear us as we pray. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:13 amAnd he appears to be OK with that.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:14 amIt’s a creepy story, anyway. Lot was perfectly willing to throw his underage virgin daughters to the crowd (of crazed homos?) in order to protect his guests. A real sweetie.
Comment by gummitch — September 19, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Yes -- and don't forget that Lot slept with both daughters after they fled the city and his wife was turned to a pillar of salt. Of course, he WAS drunk at the time...
September 19th, 2007 at 10:15 amOil, cocoa butter, whatever blows your hair back Daryll...
September 19th, 2007 at 10:16 amDaryll sez:
That's not an answer, Daryll, and you know it. Try again.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:16 amI cant believe Jake is trying to use the Romans, who put Jesus to death, Just war theory. Jesus was not a pagan Roman, Jake.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:16 amNumerous wars existed in the bible.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:15 am
What about "Thou shalt not kill"? Does that not apply to the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians that have died as a result of our military? Or is it ok to kill them because they're not Christian?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:17 amNumerous wars existed in the bible.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:15 am
"The Bible" is a bunch of fairytales. One could always ask, which bible?
The Vulgate or the King James? And what about the parts that have been edittedo ut or rewritten over the centuries? It would appear God has an editorial staff at work.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:17 amJust a note for posters. The term for following a certain rule or standard is toe the line or toe the mark, not tow....
September 19th, 2007 at 10:18 amAnd numerous drug deals are happening in the city where you live. By your reasoning, you're condoning them.
Oh, why do I bother?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:18 amNo koolaid, just anointed oil.
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:14 am
So, this God thing likes you more when you pour oil over your body? He sounds pretty kinky.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:18 amI’m sorry. I just don’t buy the ridiculous idea that there’s some big man-like creature up in the sky that looks down and sees all that we do and can even hear us as we pray. Do you have any evidence to back this up?
Comment by Vinnie
And if Darryl's "God" is real and he/she allows all the horrible things that are happening on this earth, then it is a "God" I want no part of.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:19 amNumerous wars existed in the bible. Comment by Daryll
Jesus was a pacifist of his time. In fact some historians blame the pacifist Chrsitians for the fall of the empire.
—Matthew 5:38-48, NIV
September 19th, 2007 at 10:19 amThis butters my soul. This is another great method to utilize, which will prevent terrorists from being put back in their Iraqi provinces to cause more harm to Iraqi citizens and American soldiers. Let the rehabilitation begin!
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:43 am
Hey, my favorite whipping boy, the ultimate pseudo-(c)hristian from a "divorce is sin" cult is in da howse!!!
Now, because of your track record as a closet gay, the "buttering of your soul" was presumably a freuding slip? heh
Seriously, you did read the article? It's muslim clerics that will be doing the reprogramming. Aren't you disgusted that they won't be "converted" to your (sic) (c)hristianity beliefs?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:20 amJust a note for posters. The term for following a certain rule or standard is toe the line or toe the mark, not tow….
Comment by BearCountry — September 19, 2007 @ 10:18 am
Much easier to tow a line, anyway. Pushing a line, not so much.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:20 amHarry Reid is getting ready to disappear on bringing the troops home. He is making bold declarations of which nothing will come. He is hoping that by June 2008 all will be forgotten and we can go through another round of fist shaking and bold declarations in time for the elections. How many more dems are going to be elected on the platform of bringing the troops home and cleaning up w's mess, only to become RINOs once in office?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:22 amThe Bible, besides being simply the words of men, is an endless chronicle of wars and the geneologies of the peoples who participated in them.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:22 amThe one exception is the words attributed to Jesus of Nazareth, who taught non-violence.
Wrapped around his parables and teachings are endless threats and prophesies of doom and gloom.
The Bible is the words of men, Daryll.
Men attempting to use the words of a peace maker for the sake of manipulation, exploitation and control.
He may well have drawn pictures in the sand, yet Jesus did not write stuff down.
God does not write stuff down either.
Hey, Daryll and Shakey,
Still waiting for an answer to the question I posed back in post #58.
I know Shakey's a gutless coward, so I don't expect an answer out of him...but I'm rather disappointed in you, Daryll. I'll bet your 'god' is too.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:24 amI’m sorry. I just don’t buy the ridiculous idea that there’s some big man-like creature up in the sky that looks down and sees all that we do and can even hear us as we pray. Do you have any evidence to back this up? Comment by Vinnie
We dont have any evidence of how the universe began or even what it exists in. We could be just holographic standing waves and our reality varying frequencies from x-rays to lead.
Anyway, just to make people think, I enjoy this comparison of a brain cell with the universe.
http://www.blazelabs.com/pics/brainuniverse.gif
September 19th, 2007 at 10:26 amMuch easier to tow a line, anyway. Pushing a line, not so much.
Comment by gummitch — September 19, 2007 @ 10:20 am
then there is always "snorting" a line, but I really probably shouldn't bring up my college years in the mid to late 80s!
September 19th, 2007 at 10:26 amAh yes, Jesus of Nazareth, the Essene/Gnostic/Vegetarian/Environmentalist/Pacifist, who has been converted through the ages to a War-Mongering, Pagan-Burning Maniac that suits these Neo-Con Bible Thumpers perfectly.
I also remember a Native American healer who once told me there is more Truth in a single Peyote Button than the entire Bible.
Then there is the homo-erotic "anointed his 'head' with oil, and his "cup" runneth over."
September 19th, 2007 at 10:30 amWe must defend ourselves from these false prophets. Do you love America?
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Daryll, you know good and well that our "Shock and Awe" campaign delivered bombs on numerous populations centers full of innocent woman and children. Did your God think this was ok?
Also, you may have heard that Saddam Hussein did NOT have a role in 9/11 nor did he even have WMD.
But you mention 'false prophets'. Are these people who believe in a religious system other than your own? Are you saying that it's ok to start a world war against a nation whose people are not Christian?
This is the kind of insane thinking that believing in a God can lead you to.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:30 amBTW, I DO love America. I wish GWB would stop doing such cruel things in its name.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:31 amSpecifically, on your street, in your house, at this very moment (that you know of).
September 19th, 2007 at 10:32 amI thought that this new registration system was a way to prevent the thread hijacking by people like Daryll. After one or two responses why don't the rest of you give up and ignore him? Perhaps you could have a thread dedicated to Daryll and all responses to him. These little "nyah, nyah, nyah" posts really get in the way and probably discourage others from reading through. Of course, that is Daryll's objective.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:33 amBrain from Planet Arous sez:
Amen to that, BfPA.
It might be a good idea for Daryll to undertake a visionquest or two...perhaps his warped, twisted world view could be straightened out a little...
September 19th, 2007 at 10:35 amBecause this in an open thread, might I add that so far today, it is refreshing not to have idiotic troll droppings and name jackings that derail from the topic(s).
Nice Job, TP!
September 19th, 2007 at 10:35 am#44 - "...(God) never, EVER, rained down sulfer to kill homosexuals either." Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 9:53 am
No, he didn't. Read your Bible. Sodom was destroyed for a different reason: the inhabitants refused hospitality towards visitors.
If you read Judges 19:22, the stories are almost exactly alike, except the Gibeans were NOT destroyed for their inhospitality. Maybe God was becoming less deadly to those who violated His law of hospitality?
Ezekiel 16:49
September 19th, 2007 at 10:35 amMatthew 10:14-15
Luke 10:10-12
Bear,
Well, it won't prevent the trolls but it will prevent completely inane posts like Mr. P used to do.
And yes, we'd be better off to leave Daryll alone. But when I hear someone saying it's ok to kill people because some supernatural being says it's ok, I can't help but try to show how absolutely insane this kind of thinking is.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:35 amFour days and nights alone, with nothing but water to drink can peel away a lot of foolishness...
September 19th, 2007 at 10:37 am:)
#52 - "Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders." Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
Until you begin to avocate for outlawing divorce, you are doing nothing but picking & choosing specific verses of the Bible to support your prejudices.
Maybe you should read the Bible and follow Jesus, and not your prejudice.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:37 amIn fact some historians blame the pacifist Chrsitians for the fall of the empire.
—Matthew 5:38-48, NIV
Comment by Xisithrus — September 19, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Ah, the first appearance of the 'stab-in-the-back' theory, used successfully by the Nazis about WWI, the Oliver North wing of the republican party about Vietnam and the Dick Cheney wing on Iraq....
"We didn't lose, it was those pinkos over there - round them up"
September 19th, 2007 at 10:41 amYou know, Democratic Soldier, it always amazes me the way a majority will "translate" a chapter from the Bible.
You are correct, Sodom was destroyed for their inhospitality towards the visitors (those bringing the word of God, if you will), not because of their wicked, wicked ways.
Speaking of wicked ways, Daryll, wasn't there a story in the Old Testament regarding an old man who was seduced by his daughters while on a drunken binge? Are they in Hell?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:44 amI'm mean, c'mon, according to your cult, he had the infamous 3 strikes and gone.
1) Drinking alcohol!
2) Sex outside of marriage (he was a widower)
3) Sex within his own family (yuck), and impregnating them.
That's about right, nowadays.
Freedom of Speech Ends Where the Right Begins.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:45 am#116 - "... while President Bush’s approval rating is pathetic, Congress approval rating is disgraceful and pathetic." Comment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 10:42 am
I agree. Maybe they should do what they were voted into office for, and stop the war in Iraq and get back to fighting the "war on terra" in Afghanistan!
September 19th, 2007 at 10:45 amyourfreedomyaddayaddayadda sez:
And why do you think that is? What is Congress doing (or not doing) that so many people object to?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:46 amHarry Reid (D-NV) is expected to push for a firm deadline, this time June 2008.
Jeeze... FINALLY Reid catches on. About a YEAR late though. Reid is still a coward in my books after he gave Bush a blank check before the August break. Let's see how long Reid can hold this position.
~Sean
September 19th, 2007 at 10:46 amPlease stop being so negative, and try Jesus.
Comment by Daryll
Freedom of religion also means Freedom from religion (yours, or anyone else's)
September 19th, 2007 at 10:47 am#118 - "wasn’t there a story in the Old Testament regarding an old man who was seduced by his daughters while on a drunken binge? Are they in Hell?" Comment by DRxJ — September 19, 2007 @ 10:44 am
DRxJ, you're expecting a man who only reads part of the Bible, while ignoring anything that doesn't fit neatly into his prejudices, to use reason?!?!?
I'm all for high ideals, but this one just won't happen. Daryll is a classic "pick and choose" 'c'hristian, who only believes the parts of the Bible that feed his prejudices.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:48 amMr.P (He's back),
September 19th, 2007 at 10:49 amone quick question.
Do you think the dismal approval ratings are for Democrats only?
Or, with you intellect, are you able to ascertain that the majority of the people disapprove of the constant bickering and filibustering, resulting in nothing getting done about which they voted them in for (mainly to end this Iraqi quagmire!)
Sean sez:
I'm sick of being disappointed by these appeasers and collaborators.
I'll believe it when I see it...not an instant before.
And when it finally does come to pass, yes, you're right - it's over a year too late.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:50 amWrong, OBGYN, it is a covenant to God. When same-sex couples can physically create and embryo then I may change my mind (it will never happen). Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders.
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Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 9:58 am
Actually, YOU are wrong. Hate to break it to you. If marriage brought with it no legal implications, you would be correct, and that would be the end of the discussion.
However, in the eyes of the LAW, marriage is a contract between two people that bring with it a massive amount of legal baggage. For a same-sex couple to create a contract that covers all of the legalities that a marriage contract does, it would take a large amount of time to get such a contract worked out. And you would have to take the contract with you everywhere. And the contract would have to be with the State in addition to the couple. And will still likely not get you the same treatment as that little legal status of: Married.
Without a marriage contract, a same-sex couple cannot sit at the bedside of their partner in a hospital when the sh*t hits the fan. They cannot have the same legal protections that put their combined wealth together. They cannot have the same tax protections and implications. They cannot be rented to in many states, because of cohabitation laws, or because of simple requirements for couples to be married if living under a certain landlord. Think this kind of stuff never happens? Then you don't have very many gay friends.
All of the above, and much, much more fall under the legal implications. If marriage didn't carry with it all of that legal baggage, there would be no issue, because it would be up to each individual church as to whether or not they recognize a specific marriage.
It's a legal, and binding contract. Plain and simple. You are denying people the right to sign a specific type of legal contract based on their sexual preference. It is bigotry, it is disgusting, and it needs to stop.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:53 amPlease try to find a Christian who DOESN'T pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe. Few, if any, exist.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:54 amIt would be interesting to find some instances, if there ever were any, where Congress actually had a significant approval rating.
To try and use a comparison between approval ratings for the administration and approval ratings for Congress is like comparing sheep and potatoes.
Congress has a double whammy going for it right now,
September 19th, 2007 at 10:54 ama lackluster Democratic leadership,
and a whole lot of perverse and corrupt Republican lapdogs for the Bush military machine.
And that's in no way an indictment of Christians.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:56 amDifferent denominations teach different things. Most moder Christian denominations have eschewed most of the laws of the OT in favor of a more open, evolving faith.
Comment by Moderation — September 19, 2007 @ 10:53 am
Very well said!
September 19th, 2007 at 10:57 amnow, total and complete silence on Hsu. Shall we say, left wing hacks? YES!
Comment by yourfreedomofspeechwhateverwhatever — September 19, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Please forgive me of my lack of edumacation. What political office did Hsu serve?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:59 amWhat about “Thou shalt not kill� Does that not apply to the hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians that have died as a result of our military? Or is it ok to kill them because they’re not Christian?
Comment by Vinnie — September 19, 2007 @ 10:17 am
We must defend ourselves from these false prophets. Do you love America?
Comment by Daryll — September 19, 2007 @ 10:24 am
That is not what Christ said. He said "turn the other cheek", not "thou shalt not kill unless you love your country".
Are you presuming to know what God wants better than Christ did? Or is it that you love America more than you love Jesus?
September 19th, 2007 at 10:59 am#131 - "...do nothing but conduct witch hunts against President Bush Congress. " Comment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Kind of like the "do nothing but conduct witch hunts against Pres. Clinton Congress of the 90's, right?
Hypocrisy, much?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:01 amDaryll,
September 19th, 2007 at 11:02 amyour view of Christianity is as childish and superstitious as I've ever come across.The old testament has God telling the Jews to commit genocide upon peoples who had never met them ,that it was allright to take there belonging but to continue toward the promised land ,where the people would know they were coming because, by then the Israelites would be feared by peoples who though they had never seen a jew ,would have known of their reputation for killing and be easier to defeat .(this is God talking now) .
God thru his prophets in Deuteronomy then espouses the value of slavery and that its allright to own them pass them on as an inheritance to their children,even make more slaves upon them through rape .God's opinion in the matter is that it's really a wonderful investment .
There is however 1 prohibition ,that one must never enslave a Jew !
This sounds not at all like the god of Jesus ,which god do you claim to follow ?The one who advocates genocide ,rape and slavery or the one who advocates LOVE !
yourfreedomyaddayaddayadda sez:
Actually, yes, that would constitute part of the proof. Of course, then the assertion that 'God' caused it to happen would have to be satisfactorily proven.
There's a big difference between the recordings of an objective historian, translated by other objective historians, who zealously double-check each other to verify that the translations are accurate, and the ramblings of several different works, spanning centuries, ranging from everything from objective historical records to opinion pieces to drug-induced ravings to primitive creation myths, all slapped together into one volume by people with a clear agenda, translated multiple times by other people with other agendas.
Hope that clears things up for you.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:02 amyourfreedomyaddayaddayadda sez:
It's official. You're an idiot.
If this was true, then why would Chimpy's approval rating be so low?
Sheesh...
September 19th, 2007 at 11:04 am#136 - "Oh please, stop spewing left wing propaganda my friend."
Hmm, I wonder what right-whiner propoganda you're going to spew after that comment. . . .
"Heard of Hsu? heard of him?"
Comment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 11:00 am
There it is!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:05 amJesus preached and practiced love , still the best answer to todays miseries and difficulties .
September 19th, 2007 at 11:07 am"If you wish to be happy practice compassion,
If you wish others to be happy , practice compassion .
The Dalai lama
Jake is that all U took away from all my efforts .The spirit not the letter of the law .
September 19th, 2007 at 11:08 amyourfreedomyaddayaddayadda sez:
I beg to differ.
From the above link, Repubs out-corrupt Dems by a factor of 4.5 to 1.
(Sorry...that's not 'fuzzy math'...it's 'the math'.)
Here at least we can agree. By failing to hold Chimpy and his cronies accountable for their crimes, Reid and Pelosi are marked as complicit.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:08 ammany are called but few are chosen .
September 19th, 2007 at 11:09 amwhat could be an example of the ultimate strawman, one equivalent to the "when did you stop beating your wife" question?
Oh wait, right here is one:
Are you also saying that WWII was not a “Just War�
Comment by Jake D.Korean Vet Fake — September 19, 2007 @ 11:04 am
September 19th, 2007 at 11:09 am"Heard of Hsu?"
comment by freespeechendswheretherightbegins
Oh, of course, but the story doesn't seem to have much steam, he's in jail, campaigns have turned their monies over to charities, try and find mention of it in the MSM anywhere these days.
I agree, corruption is everywhere, in both political parties.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Heard of Abramhoff?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:09 amThe money trail and the tendrils of corruption that entwine him will take years to unravel.
Wrong, OBGYN, it is a covenant to God. When same-sex couples can physically create and embryo then I may change my mind (it will never happen). Until then, we must follow Biblical/Constitutional laws and Executive Orders.
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Comment by Daryll
With that reasoning, child-barren married men and women should be forbidden from marrying also. Oops, hole in logic.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:10 amFor the record, Hsu served in the same exact political office as Jack Abramoff.
Comment by Jake D.Ignore List Fake — September 19, 2007 @ 11:09 am
For the record, you just addressed my question, which puts me off your lame Ignore List, which means you are up to debate one on one.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:11 amReady?
Hello all
September 19th, 2007 at 11:11 am#147 - "Sorry, freeman, but I thought it was “Correct Each Other’s Spelling†Day today." Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Those who live in grass houses should not stow thrones! ;-)
September 19th, 2007 at 11:12 amComment by DRxJ — September 19, 2007 @ 10:44 am
The man to whom this happened was named Lot. He was Abraham’s nephew and a survivor of the destruction of Sodom. Actually, he and his daughters could have been the only survivors of the destruction of the cities of the plains. There were five cities destroyed.
Lot was neither Jew nor Christian. I believe Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, is considered the first Jew. Since he neither fell under the Mosaical or the Christian eras, I think all you can say is that he behaved badly. The story of Lot can not be an indictment of either religion. Furthermore, the Bible records that there were negative consequences to his behavior. The Bible records sinful behavior because it’s a book about real people, and it – the Bible – doesn’t gloss over the consequences of the acts of sinful people.
The destruction of Sodom apparently becomes a really good example of a really bad example and is used throughout the Bible. Even Christ makes a comparison using Sodom as a negative example.
Saying that Sodom was destroyed because it was inhospitable seems to be the modern interpretation of this story from Genesis around chapter 20 – particularly from those who choose to ignore the story. This modern interpretation is supported from the book of Amos, I believe. Believe the description in Amos is something like, >, which I take to mean, “They were affluent.â€
Believe the modern interpretation is in conflict with the account from Genesis, but the account in Genesis is not in conflict with the comment in Amos. Genesis says God destroyed the city because of the wickedness – they were perverted. Amos attempts to answer the questions, “Why were they perverted?â€
Genesis makes it clear that the people in Sodom tried to have homosexual relations with visitors to Lot’s house.
If you don’t believe the Biblical account, I’ll just consider that your problem, not mine. I believe it.
And, before you ask me about proof or mention interpretations and languages, remember why it is that you believe what you hear on the news today or what you read on wikipedia or in a book. Someone reported it to you, and there’s always the question of whether or not you would have reported it the same way if you had been the one reporting. You trust, you have faith, that the reporting is accurate. I have faith the Bible report is accurate.
Perhaps you know the famous law school movie study. Eighty law students are shown a staged robbery. The students produce an account of what they saw. The accounts never agree 100%.
The Bible is remarkable for it’s consistency, and its impact.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:12 am#149 - "Hello all" Comment by hellinabucket — September 19, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Hello to you too, Hellena! Frabjuous day!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:13 amI read some where yesterday, one of our soldier's in Iraq is sueing Gates and the military for his treatment..Seem's our military was persacuting him and demanding he become a radical christian...Think it may have been posted at truthout, not sure...Sad time's indeed, million's die for oil, countries leveled by intent or design and relegion is once again behind the moving forces..Forcing any belief's on another for the greedy benefit of the few is as in the past, evil..
Great job on the site TP..Thank you.....Blessings
September 19th, 2007 at 11:13 amThose who credited Warner prematurely may live to regret it. I, too, wanted to believe that he finally found his soul and would speak honestly after he chose not to run for office again. But like Specter, and so many other Republicans, when it comes down to the vote, they are all loathe to go against Bush.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:14 am#151 - "The Bible is remarkable for it’s consistency, and its impact." Comment by bitblt — September 19, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Except for the contradictions and inconsistencies. That's when it allows those with beams in their eyes to point out the splinters in everyone else's.
Maybe you should read the Bible with an eye towards the truth, rather than trying to force it to fit your biases and prejudices.
The Bible really comes alive when you stop telling God how He should support your prejudices!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:16 amIt's good to see that people have successfully registered to the new TP.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:16 amThe Bible is remarkable for it’s consistency, and its impact.
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Comment by bitblt — September 19, 2007
Yes, well, it's been re-written often enough down through the ages to accomodate the earthly powers whom it benefits.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:17 amJake
September 19th, 2007 at 11:17 amI'm more interested in things spiritual than mechanical,Jake ,the mechanical breaks down .
Lay not up your treasues where moth and dust doth collect ,for where a mans treasures are, there lies his heart .
Compassion is more important than driving an SUV , are you sure you've read the gospels.
If you need any more info re: Hsu vs. Abramoff, please let me know.
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Comment by Jake
Will it be Pay per View?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:18 am#159
September 19th, 2007 at 11:20 amThe bible is remarkable for it's LACK of consistency ,You could make a case for almost any perspective from it .
Jesus spoke in parables ,He who has ears to hear ,let him hear .
freespeechendswherewhateverwhatever:
If you need any more info re: Hsu vs. Abramoff, please let me know.
Comment by Jake D. Fake for 75 Years— September 19, 2007 @ 11:17 am
Gawd, you're so easy and predictable. I take it that is your admission of defeat, and are unwilling to debate mano v mano!
Man, for a 75 year old, you have a lot of growing up to do.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:21 amJake D. sez:
Poor Shakey's still smarting from my pointing out that he can's spell "sulfur".
Shakey, if you have a problem with that, be enough of a man to address me directly. Don't take your frustration out on other posters.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:21 amTripMaster Monkey,
September 19th, 2007 at 11:23 amI'm not even sure if Jake D. Fake is a man.
bitblt sez:
OK, then...answer this question.
Which was created first? Man, or the other animals?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:25 amComment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Actually, close, but no cigar.
There are three groups of people in the US, maybe four if you subdivide the Republican supporters between those who honestly support the Reps and those who just don't support Dems.
The first group are the educated people who have gotten fed up with the war. For them, the Republicans are at the lowest support rating as they're the ones making this very unpopular war continue. Combine this with an economy that is built on a bubble and is slowing as we speak and gas prices that are out-f***ing-rageous, and the support for the Republicans are in the toilet. Democrats are banged up in support, but still more tolerated than Republicans, because of their insistance on not doing anything about Bush and his Republican allies, giving up because they can't get the 60 votes they need in the Senate to push through legislation. The solution is to vote more Dems into office to replace Reps and replace the President with a Democrat. These people know this, so they're going to vote in '08 to increase Democrats proportion in congress and hope for the best.
The second group are the uninformed who would otherwise be part of group one. They give bad marks to both the Reps and Dems because we're still in Iraq. They are still a no vote to Bush and the Dems, and are the ones you attempt to appeal to with this BS that Reps and Dems are the same. The first group's job is to counter your transparent attempts to manipulate this second group, by explaining exactly how our system of government works. Until then, they will hate your side as much as they hate the other side. If they can't be convinced by 08 that the problem is the Republican party, then in 08, they won't vote period, which makes it easier for the next group to get its agenda across. If they can be convinced enough, then 08 goes the Democrat's way and they get a chance to prove whether or not they will undo this war and right our country where the Republicans have made it wrong.
Lastly is your group. This group consists of people who support the Republicans and want to see them win at the Dem's expense, for whatever reason. They are part of the negative votes for the Dems, and part of the positive votes for the Reps, and part of the 29% who still support Bush. They fit into at least one of the following positions, if not all of them: support the war, do not support the troops, support Bush's rediculous tax cuts in wartime, support fattening the pockets of the ultra-rich while fleecing the middle-class, support creating a destitute class underneith the poor class by cutting public support programs of all flavors, using wedge issues such as homosexual marriage and abortion to drive America apart, and in general use people's religion to manipulate them in order to push their own agenda through. While the people in the second group may share some of your group's positions (particularly a control over public support programs), their reasons are different from this group -- they don't want to see people fattening themselves up on the government at their tax dollars expense. However, unlike your grouop, they don't mind paying their fair share of taxes. This group, on the other hand, does. They want to make money, and keep _all_ of it, regardless of theirr responsibility to your other people and the use of public assets by them. 'Let someone else pay for it. I need my money, all of it, regardless of how much I have'. They are mean spirited, and because of this, they're definitely not above using their power to influence others. This group wants the Republicans in office. They know if the second group is enlightened by the first group, then their favorite Republicans will leave office for a long time, and soon they'll have to pay their fair share again. Your group can't stand for this.
So, this is pretty transparent to me. You, acting on behalf of your group, have decided to convince the moderates on this board that the Dems are no better than the Reps, parroting that line by the Right that there's no difference between the parties. My comment there is: IF there is no difference between the parties, then why not let the Dems win. Nothing will change. You'll lose nothing. Since you're fighting so hard to convince us moderates that there is no difference, then we intelligent moderates have to ask: "Well, if there is no difference, why are you fighting so hard to get me to vote Republican. What's in it for you?"
September 19th, 2007 at 11:27 amHmmmmm. Login's...
I hope Sen. Ried gets his time line, but IMO, the Democrats will Fold yet again.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:27 amOff topic but explains Squeege's comment - C & L has named today "talk like a pirate day"...arghh....
September 19th, 2007 at 11:28 amJake
September 19th, 2007 at 11:28 amWhy is it you've hardened your heart to love ? If an enemy strikes you on the right cheek offer him the left .Does that reflect a foreign policy which refugees 4 million ,kills 3/4 of a million and enables arms dealers to make a killing?Is torture Christian ?
The Bible is remarkable for it’s consistency, and its impact.
Comment by bitblt — September 19, 2007 @ 11:12 am
That would explain why there are two distinctly different versions of the Creation in the very first book.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:28 am#167 - "Which was created first? Man, or the other animals?" Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 19, 2007 @ 11:25 am
A better question to ask would be "how many of each animal was loaded on the ark?"
I'm always amused by the Biblical "literalists" and their arguments that refuse to hold water.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:29 amfor some reason, my page will only update when I post. Keep fighting the good fight all.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:30 amJake D. sez:
That's a lie, Shakey, as I've demonstrated numerous times.
Every time you yammer on about the "ignore list" you become even more pathetic. God...I'm actually starting to feel sorry for you...
September 19th, 2007 at 11:31 amComment by Veritas
Veritas, Sept 19th has been Talk Like A Pirate Day for years
September 19th, 2007 at 11:31 amC & L didn't make it up
It's an international holiday, or so it likes to think.
Comment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 10:44 am
Hey, skippy, get your facts straight before you run your mouth. You'll avoid making a fool of yourself a bit more often. Read my post again, sound the words out slowly if you need to and look up the ones you don't understand in a dictionary. ....
September 19th, 2007 at 11:32 am“how many of each animal was loaded on the ark?â€
If any of them were loaded, Noah needs reporting to the NSPCA.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:34 amIf anyone NOT on the “Ignore List†(for refusing to answer my questions to them even though I answered even one of their questions to me and/or resorting to personal attacks againse me even though I don’t use ad hominem against them)
If Joke likes he can debate himself, or he can just push that handy-dandy 'report abuse' button on his own posts. I tried it last night and you can self-abuse yourself. Things are looking up.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:36 amwas it me, or did Mr.P's faux pas Liberals Hate Christians post disappear?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:36 amChrist quotes Genesis in Matthew 19 when he’s asked about marriage and divorce. It’s the same Genesis that I read. The apostle Paul often quotes and alludes to the Old Testament.
Don’t believe bitblt has condemned anyone. It’s neither his job nor something to which he aspires.
Besides, TP posters all us handles so how can an individual be comdemned?
.
Just so you’re clear though:
bitblt believes homosexuals are sinners
bitblt believes adulterers are sinners.
bitblt believes both behaviors are detrimental to the participants, people who care about the particiapants, and to the society that surrounds the participants.
bitblt believes Jesus never gave anyone a pass on sin.
This statement and the first one on block quotes seem contradictory to bitblt.
bitblt is under the impression that the Bible comes alive when you really believe it and don’t try to twist it to hide from your own sin.
Its influence is being discussed on TP. Isn’t that remarkable.
The creation account in Genesis records that man was created on the sixth day – after the animals.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:38 amWhen are we going to see the equivalent in this country? That is, moderate Christians involved in reprogramming Christian extremists such as the dominionists?
Great article on the topic -- http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_crusaders/
September 19th, 2007 at 11:38 amI tried it last night and you can self-abuse yourself.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — September 19, 2007 @ 11:36 am
But not too much, or you'll go blind =P
September 19th, 2007 at 11:41 amCaptain Mantastic sez:
I'm curious. Do you really think your idiotic screed merits spamming it across multiple threads, or are you just trying to be irritating?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:43 amThe Bible is remarkable for … and its impact.
Its influence is being discussed on TP. Isn’t that remarkable.
Comment by bitblt — September 19, 2007 @ 11:38 am
Yes, it's truly horrific and painful to see how its endless misinterpretation continues to cause suffering and death.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:45 am#184 tid bit
September 19th, 2007 at 11:45 amI live near the john day fossil beds in Oregon,ever been there ?Its loaded with all sorts of extinct mammal ,which one might describe loosely as mouse dogs ,deer pigs and horse antelopes ,really .What day did God make these and did they make it on to the ark?
Boy I'm gonna love this answer .
#188 - "Why is bitblt referring to “bitblt†in the third person?" Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Bitbit must assume that talking about Bitbit in the third-person makes Bitbit sound like Bitbit knows what Bitbit is talking about.
Somewhat cute, but Bitbit is sending the complete opposite impression.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:45 amfreeman, are you saying they've finally found fossil proof of the jackalope's existence? Cool!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:46 am#186 - "I believe as bad as many paint our current circumstances, it could always be worse." Comment by CaptainMantastic — September 19, 2007 @ 11:41 am
I must agree with this statement.
We could have another Republican President in 2008, at which point the rest of the US Constitution is in jeopardy of being destroyed by the right-whiners!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:48 ambitblt sez:
Izzat so?
Not according to Genesis 2:
So...when were the lower animals created? Why, not until verse 19:
How do you explain this discrepancy, bitblt?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:49 amComment by yourfreedomofspeechendswheremyrightsbegin — September 19, 2007 @ 11:41 am
You lied about my post skippy, I have every right to call you on it.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:51 amPlease stay Jake. You make a very good punching bag.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:52 amThe theory goes,as I understand it, that at one time the region was a tropical environment and that as the coast range pushed up it became a temperate rain forest and then many thousands of years later the mountains eventually altered the climate to create a desert which is what it now is .
September 19th, 2007 at 11:58 amBasically the same idea behind the birth of our ancestor homo erectus ,who responding to a change in a jungle environment thru the growth of a mountain range which created a savannah of their environment ,left the tree.s and began to walk .
Evolve or die ! We are now , I believe faced with a similar difficulty but caused by our own success .The evolution this time around will be the birth of the spiritual man .With out wisdom our technology will destroy us .
"What day did God make these and did they make it on to the ark?"
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Comment by freeman
I've always wondered about the giant beavers, did Noah decide to let them swim it out, and they got tired and drowned?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:59 am:)
freeman...
September 19th, 2007 at 12:12 pmI agree with your perception of the evolutionary place humans find themselves in at this moment.
We have incredible skills, technology, and the ability to manipilate our physical environment to provide for our survival, and as well the awareness of the fragility and finite limit of the resources here on the planet.
I believe the keys to a spiritual evolution we have as well.
It seems at the moment we are caught up in a devolution, and a war between two seperate archaic ideologies, a conflict that has been ongoing since the beginning of human consciousness.
It is the old fight between Cain and Abel, the haves and the have nots.
The Leavers, and the Takers.
#199 Nevar
September 19th, 2007 at 12:14 pmno they were were gay .
Is that why they ended up in the Klarno Nut Beds?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:19 pmYou assume that each event recorded in Genesis 2 happened in strict sequential order. Believe you can assume that about the opening verses of Genesis 1 because the text uses the markers for a Jewish day – the day starts at sundown, but this doesn’t necessarily apply to Genesis 2.
You would have done better to have asked me who recorded Genesis 1? Some Genesis scholars say that Genesis one is from God’s viewpoint of creation, and that Genesis 2 is from Adam’s viewpoint of creation.
It’s simply different accounts of the same, related events.
This explanation is adequate for me. Is it adequate for you?
My suggestion is that if you don’t believe it don’t bother yourself with it.
Besides, “…had formed…†is not the same as “…next formed…â€
Who do you suppose taught Adam to talk?
BTW, who taught you to talk, and who taught your teachers to talk? Get the point?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:20 pmThe mystic and the magician.The magician manipulates matter,the mystic is content in the absence of desire ,having found peace in surrender to the moment .( the will of God ).
September 19th, 2007 at 12:26 pmTwo halves of a whole ,united , the spirirual man acting from a place of wholeness , becomes the instrument of perfection (Gods will ).
bitblt sez:
What "bothers" me about it is that people like you have the gall to show up and claim that "the Bible is remarkable for it’s consistency", when it's obvious to anyone not already compromised by blind faith that it is neither consistent with itself, nor with established, objective, verifiable facts.
Who do you suppose taught God to talk?
Answering this question would require me to explain to you the principles of the evolution of language, but since I know you're going to shut off as soon as you hear the word 'evolution', I won't waste my time.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:30 pmBit bit ,
September 19th, 2007 at 12:34 pmJesus preached love ,you haven't even gotten to first base with all that dogma .
Religion is like a finger pointing at the moon ,people look at the finger and say ,what a beautiful moon . Zen parable
Promise?
Just one more question before you keep your promise....
Do you believe that to believe nothing is the highest form of learning?
Believing in Jesus Christ and the Bible is a choice for me.
I find it a very satisfying choice.
Did you choose to believe in nothing?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:36 pmThrow away your bible ,Jesus said all the teachings can be summed up in 2 sentences.Love god above all THINGS and your neighbor as yourself. Pretty simple really .
September 19th, 2007 at 12:36 pmthe path that can be described is not the path
September 19th, 2007 at 12:38 pmBut that’s me as an individual Christian — you can’t have it both ways — either the U.S. is a Christian government, or not.
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:37 am
It's not, Jake. I'm amazed that a "lawyer" wouldn't know that. You know, actually have read the Constitution.
It's pretty clear.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:38 pmBite Bite
September 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pmYou are calling the dead husk of dogma ,the exoteric, religion ,and have missed the point (spirit )entirely .
LOVE
Veritas
Off topic but explains Squeege’s comment - C & L has named today “talk like a pirate dayâ€â€¦arghh….
Matey, who be this C & L who have tried to pillage this, most scurvy, of days for themselves? Set full sail to their offices where we shall chop down their masts, set their deck alite, and leave them be-calmed many a league from shore, before putting 10 pound shots thru their hull.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pmAt the sub atomic level you only see what your looking for ,you can not measure both velocity and position and the very act of looking alters the experiment .
September 19th, 2007 at 12:45 pmAsk Subuhti
Thread is now Biblical and Piratical. I'm gonzo.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pm...but that doesn't make those blackwater guys babykillers - no - anyone would be committing the greatest crime ever to call those blackwater guys babykillers.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:51 pmThe Gospel According to Blackbeard.
Praise the Sword, and Pass the Communion.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:54 pmActually Matey, I'd rather discuss the Diamond sutra .Arrrhhhggg.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:56 pmIs that anywhere near the Kama sutra?
September 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pmI hear thar be treasure...
If you meet the buddha on the road ,Steal his parrot .
September 19th, 2007 at 1:05 pmWhy are there volcanos?
September 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pmThe Great Spirit has a peg leg.
Nevar # 220
September 19th, 2007 at 1:21 pmNo thats an erection.
In the spirit of continued iconoclasticism ,eat your heart out Davy Jones ,I offer this story ,
Coyote ,upon waking one morning ,saw a many colored flag ,flying in the breeze above him .The banner of the chiefs is unfurled ,he said and began to salute ,but then realized his mistake .The flag was his own blanket and he had woken that morning with an erection of enormous proportion.Disturbed he removed his member and put it in a box which he carried on his back on his days journey .
Kinda sums up my feeling about all this nationaism weve been experiencing over the last few years .
September 19th, 2007 at 1:23 pmbitblt sez:
I find that the humility of admitting you don't actually have a direct line to all the answers is preferable to the unmitigated hubris of believing steadfastly that all we even will know or need know is spelled out in a magic book some invisible old man in the clouds wrote around 6000 years ago, which directly contradicts both itself and observed reality.
...but I'm kinda grown-up that way.
I'm glad your faith soothes your mind. I'm happy for you. I really am.
But when you come in here and start trumpeting about the objective truth of the Bible, I will call you on it every day of the week.
I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes:
Recognize that quote?
September 19th, 2007 at 1:26 pmIs the following an adequate, succinct summation of what you posted?
I have no authority on which to base my opinions and viewpoints.
You might want to note that I haven’t made any claims about my knowledge.
Even the apostles Paul says about knowledge, paraphrasing “…we see through a glass darkly..â€
Best to you.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:33 pmMatey, who be this C & L [...]
Comment by Squegeeboo — September 19, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
you're really good at that! ... love the pirates... heh...
C & L = http://www.crooksandliars.com/ = THE best site for videos
...
Thread is now Biblical and Piratical. I’m gonzo.
Comment by TerrytheTurtle — September 19, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
not enough pirate...
September 19th, 2007 at 1:35 pm...
I do recognize the quote.
I believe I would probably lean more toward the Essences that the Pharisees. However, if I were a judge, I’d probably be called the “hanging judge.â€
Recognize this quote?
It’s from John 1.
I do recognize the quote
September 19th, 2007 at 1:38 pmComment by bitblt — September 19, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Did you have a point in posting that quote, or did I just set off a Bible-quotin' frenzy in you?
September 19th, 2007 at 1:45 pm...Allah want for Christmas is the deep blue sea...
September 19th, 2007 at 1:54 pmThree or four verses does not a frenzy make.
I quote this in light of the many references to what Jesus said. References that apparently directed to me.
I also thought if you like the one on showy prayer, you might like the one what some Christian believe is a remark on the Creator.
But, really, nothing in particular.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:54 pmYou're a rather clever theologian, bitblt.
September 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pmYou've obviously spent some time in learning an end run around every faith based flaw in the christianist tradition.
Did you ever consider becoming a preacher?
Allow be to repeat a question for you.
Do you believe that to believe nothing is the highest form of learning?
This is what I think I see on TP. Lots of opinions. Little real belief. Almost no authority. The U.S. Constitution seems to be invoked much more often that the Bible as the authority.
For me, in contrast to my above question, believing in Jesus Christ and the Bible is the choice for me.
I find it a very satisfying choice.
Did you choose to believe in nothing?
This might be a explanation for what you've seen me post today, but I don't think this is the end of the story.
What you see is contrast. For me I decided somewhere along the line that you either belief in something, or you believe in nothing.
How many people posting on TP really believe anything? Most TP posters know what's wrong with everything, but they don't have much to offer in contrast. Only criticisms.
The answer to the question is yes.
September 19th, 2007 at 3:21 pmYou must be tired, that was an exceptionally long run around.
I believe...
September 19th, 2007 at 3:43 pmDon't care to give me 25 words or less on
Do you believe that to believe nothing is the highest form of learning?
September 19th, 2007 at 3:46 pmDo you believe that to believe nothing is the highest form of learning?
Absolutely not.
September 19th, 2007 at 3:50 pmDear bitblt:
If you have the assumption that simply because someone does not believe what you believe, that they have no belief.
My experience with rigidly entrenched religiosity is that its adherents are shouting so loudly what they believe in, it is impossible for them to hear anothers beliefs.
In the present age, we have extremists at polar ends of two popular religions who are wreaking most of the havoc in the world.
Namely the Christianists and the Islamists.
My perception is that there are many spritual people who peruse and comment here.
Please do not confuse sprituality with religiosity.
For your own elucidation, I have gleaned from every major, minor, and perhaps even unknown to some, religion a common thread that runs within them.
What I have found, and what I believe, is that there is a god force, and a creative force accessible to our consciousness, each and every one of us.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:03 pmAnd it is most usually a still small voice that simply says either yes, or no.
Sincerely,
Raven
#236
I don't confuse them, but is one to be preferred over the other?
Are you simply remarking on observed conflict, or are you suggesting that without Christianity and Islam, everything would be fine and wonderful?
This seems very nebulous to me. Are you saying that the authority for your belief are your feelings?
Ok. So do you recommend it?
September 19th, 2007 at 4:12 pmI said absolutely nothing about feelings.
(Do emotion equate feelings? Just so that I understand what you mean by feelings...)
It seems you are stuck on the authority issue with regards to belief.
Implying you will only feel secure if there is an authority to dictate your belief.
Nebulousness is a wonderful thing.
Mystery, and an acceptance of mystery, is a very practical vehicle for the consciousness to continue its evolution.
It provides the question of why, and what if.
It's the religious dogma which preaches the world is flat, was created in a week, and you'd better do what I say or you will perish, if not at the hands of my disciples, then at the hands of another made up fantasy creature just like me.
Do I recommend what?
September 19th, 2007 at 4:25 pmDo you recommend what you believe?
September 19th, 2007 at 4:29 pmYou betcha!
September 19th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI also recommend that no one take my word for it.
I recommend everyone do their own work towards finding their own belief.
Question
September 19th, 2007 at 4:33 pmResearch
Explore
Listen
Listen some more
Mostly listen.
Believers follow blindly, so there is no authority there, except in your minds. Non-believers in a sky-ghost may either believe in man's inherent spirit, or in nothing, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they look for proof and logic, rather than following the many-translated and mistranslated superstitions of desert nomads.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:41 pmI do these. Apparently the difference is that I believe Jesus Christ is the son of God.
Do these does seem appropriate to me. After all, Christians believe the God is the creator of all we know. I'd call that down right mysterious.
Paraphrasing the Bible - I believe ( It's out of context but makes the point.)
Always studying but never reaching a conclusion.
This is what I called believing in nothing above.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:46 pmLefty Patriot, so you believe in ....what?
Don't mean to disappoint - or surprise, but you'll never get all your questions answered.
Paraphrasing the Bible - again out of context - but God's ways are higher than mans ways.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:51 pmAny conclusion I've ever reached has always had another mystery to go along with, hence the journey continues.
I believe there will always be another conclusion, just around the corner.
Got to go now, the Gypsum Plaster God is quietly drying on my wall, and needs another coat.
Thanks for listening.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:53 pmPeace.
Nevar
September 19th, 2007 at 4:58 pmDitto and Ditto again ,Mate !
Now set 3 sheets to the wind , and sail on !
Slow news day?
September 19th, 2007 at 5:01 pmYaaarrr
September 19th, 2007 at 6:25 pmArr Arrrrrrr, tie yer mate to port and prepare to break wind
September 19th, 2007 at 7:15 pmI’m proud to say that I am an Atheist and that my will is my own and I can make up my mind without having to consult a “higher beingâ€.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 19, 2007 @ 9:47 am
Everyone's will is their own and everyone makes up their own mind about the higher being, thus determining their fate. ;)
------
You are correct, Sodom was destroyed for their inhospitality towards the visitors (those bringing the word of God, if you will), not because of their wicked, wicked ways.
Comment by DRxJ — September 19, 2007 @ 10:44 am
This is a common misconception spread by liberals to deflect attention from the sin of homosexuality. ;)
September 20th, 2007 at 1:14 amRegardless of why, the Hebrew god spent a lot of time and energy destroying cities, or so the bible tells me so...
September 20th, 2007 at 11:49 am