BREAKING: Warner, McCain To Propose Toothless, Watered-Down Version Of Webb Amendment
BREAKING: Warner, McCain To Propose Toothless, Watered-Down Version Of Webb Amendment
Speaking on the Senate floor this morning, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), an ardent opponent of a pro-troop measure to relieve the stress on the overstretched armed forces, announced he will propose a toothless, watered-down substitute to the Webb amendment.
McCain said he and Sen. John Warner (R-VA) have teamed up to put together a “sense of the Senate” amendment to express “very clearly that we all want all our troops home and we understand the stress and strain that’s been inflicted on the men and women in the military and the guard and reserves.”
McCain’s rhetoric belies his intentions — to kill the Webb amendment. Webb’s bill would force the Bush administration to provide active duty troops at least the same time at home as the length of their previous tour of duty overseas. After learning of the McCain-Warner proposal, Webb immediately rejected it, stating that the troops don’t need the “sense of the Congress” but rather “the will of the Congress”:
I have just learned from Sen. McCain’s comments that Sen. Warner will be offering a side-by-side amendment that goes to the sense of the Congress rather than the will of the Congress. And I would like to state emphatically at the outset that this is a situation that calls for the will of the Congress.
Watch it:
Webb noted at a press conference this morning that Warner is being pressured “very hard” by the Bush administration to back away from his earlier support of the Webb amendment:
QUESTION: Is Senator Warner bailing on you here, or have you reached some accommodation?
WEBB: I’m still hopeful that Senator Warner will support this — will vote for it. [..] As you might imagine, as someone who has been the Republican chairman of the Armed Services Committee, he has been pressed very hard by this administration to, sort of, back away from this.
Sen. John Warner introduced a similar “sense of the Senate” resolution to oppose Bush’s escalation in January, but it failed to pose any obstacles to the administration’s failing course in Iraq.
Warner often flinches from head-on confrontation with the Bush administration, and now he is providing an escape outlet for conservatives to claim they support giving the troops rest while doing nothing about it.
UPDATE: Georgia10 points to a Hill article that notes the “Sense of the Senate” strategy was first discussed by Senate Republicans at “a closed-door luncheon meeting” yesterday. They hoped the proposal “would prevent defections by allowing their conference to go on record recognizing the challenges facing troops in Iraq.” Taylor Marsh has more.
UPDATE II: TPM Election Central reports that Warner did not bother to tell Webb about his amendment.
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55 Responses to “BREAKING: Warner, McCain To Propose Toothless, Watered-Down Version Of Webb Amendment”
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senate leaders shouldnt let them have a vote on it…f em
September 19th, 2007 at 12:11 pmNow the Dems are planning to vote against a bill stating the congress wants to troops home? You guys crack me up.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:11 pmno amendments no bills till webbs is passed.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:11 pmNow the Dems are planning to vote against a bill stating the congress wants to troops home? You guys crack me up.
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Comment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 12:11 pm
and you are an idiot for failing to see the difference
September 19th, 2007 at 12:11 pmyeah jake it only takes 2 nuts and 42 followers to f our troops
September 19th, 2007 at 12:12 pmIf this occupation is ESSENTIAL for our survival and security, why do we not have a draft to give us the necessary troop strength accomplish the mission as well as be prepared for any other unforeseen threats?
I have not heard any good reason. The ONLY reason is that many people will wake up out of their rosy fantasy when it starts to affect THEM. Sucks that only a small portion of this country has to sacrifice for this occupation.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:14 pmJake D. —
How the hell are you going to support the “we want the troops home” bill from Warner and McCain, when EVERY other post I see from you suggests that you feel the troops need to stay in Iraq?
Seems to me that you have picked a horse, and will back it no matter what. Ideology and what is right for this country doesn’t even play into the equation. This is a sad state we are in since I am sure you are not the only one.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:16 pmjakes experiences in the war of 1812 make him a bush supporter. /sarcoff
September 19th, 2007 at 12:18 pmSounds like McCain wants to be viewed as a guy who cares about the troops, while blocking bills, that would bring them home, and give them adequate rest time.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:18 pmyou watch… they’ll name it something like:
The Military Recovery Act, Support our Troops Amendment,
Military Readiness Act or Military Recuperation Act…
H/T Paul…
September 19th, 2007 at 12:19 pm.
So the troops home, ONLY if victory is achieved?
What do you consider to be the terms of victory?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:22 pmMaybe the family values candidates should consider that many families have both spouses in the military. That can EASILY result in them not living in the same house for the better part of a decade (or more if this war continues and escalates). Kind of hard to keep your family together with stress like that.
GO FAMILY VALUES - SUPPORT OUR TROOPS - all you have to do is have a yellow ribbon on your car!
Where are the congresspeople that care about this country?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:23 pmMaybe the Dems need to propose a bill stating the will, in the future, support our troops and not attempt character assasination on them when they testify before congress. You can say you support the troops, but when you smear one of the most respected generals who is leading the Iraq war, YOU DON’T SUPPORT THE TROOPS!
September 19th, 2007 at 12:28 pmHow the heck would you know what they want, let alone deserve?
They deserve to see their families. They deserve proper medical care and rest time. They deserve a sacrifice from the rest of America that they risk their lives for - NOT A TAX BREAK. They deserve restoring the great name and reputation for the country and IDEALS (not president) they are willing to give their lives for.
You still haven’t answered the original question. Do you support a draft? If you don’t then you obviously don’t support the troops and you don’t think the threat warrants that type of sacrifice.
The troops have already succeeded. It is this government that keeps changing the definition of success. The military wins every battle it faces. The military has ousted Saddam. Has provided security for elections. The Iraqis have spoken, they want us OUT. We can’t export democracy at the barrel of a gun - and we ESPECIALLY can’t export “democracy only if you do it our way”
Freedom means the right to kick the occupying forces out. Apparently we want the Iraqis to have freedom unless they disagree with the US.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:32 pmPretty much the same thing happened in Vietnam Dan, we won the battles only to lose the war.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:34 pmIts the Republican Smoke and Mirrors amendment.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:36 pmComment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
Have I disrespected General Petraeus? No, I haven’t. I have merely compared his views with those of General Newbold, General Batiste, General Casey, General Abizaid, General Zinni, General Shinseki (and I am pretty sure I am missing some more). You dig deep enough, you will find someone to agree with you; however, you have to weigh it against the REST OF THE INFORMATION. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that this administration hand picked ONLY THOSE THAT WILL GIVE THEM THE INFORMATION THEY WANT.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:38 pmAre these Senators joining the Bush camp as a response to the Democrats’ new hardball strategy? Should the Democrats reach out to these moderate senators, or are they best served by maintaining an aggressive front to get us out of Iraq? Read and discuss this at http://www.thecoin.org
September 19th, 2007 at 12:39 pmMcCain & Warner kinda sorta wanta support the troops….only if the killing can continue.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pmdisgraceful and shameful.
the world and all America’s young people are watching, GOP apparatchiks. the stain on your party will never wash out, and you’re gleefully pressing for more of what put it there. one more year, more or less, is all you have, then the rest of us can look foward to 30, 40, 50 years of freedom from your psychotic policies, lies, perversion and chicanery, while you and your supporters stand out in the rain, bleating to the heavens about how unfair it all is.
i will be laughing
more than ever, to say that republicans have “manson family values” is an accurate description.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:44 pmThe time for compromise and searching for middle ground is long passed. I only hope and pray that we can count on Reid to be a man of his word. I, for one, have been patient, tried to be understanding of the difficulties presented by trying to rationally balance a slim majority with the will of the people. My patience has run out. It’s time to play hardball, and I don’t mean the Tweety kind. The Webb amendment must either come to a vote, or Reid must let the obstructionists filibuster. There are no other options.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:50 pmat this point, it will last until the 2008 elections.
i’d like to see the war end, but now i know it won’t — at least not until after 2008. so fine. the only other palatable result is that democrats keep trying to end the war and offer amendments to bring the troops home, and republicans keep opposing these efforts.
i now wholeheartedly support every pro-war republican. keep defying the clear majority of americans that want this war brought to a responsible end. keep backing bush. keep pandering to the most extreme elements in your party.
and wonder why, in november 2008, you get your ASSES handed to you and ultimately have to spend the next two decades wandering the political wilderness as a minority until you, if you’re lucky enough and don’t go the way of the whigs, find your way again.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pmGO WARNER AND MCCAIN!!!
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
Why do you prefer a warm, fuzzy statement to the troops of “we recognize that your situation pretty much sucks” to giving them some real relief? Why do you hate the military so?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pm“Sense of the Senate” is the new GOP plan to try and hide their Greed and abuse of troops. A new kind of flag to wrap their twisted priorities in. I hope the American people are awake enough to see through such pitiful ploys.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:52 pmWarner and McCain think the only way to honor the troops is by having the troops come home in coffins.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:54 pmThe 29%ers here will stick to their Codpiece-in-Chief “hero” to the end. Which defines their lack of humanity and their ability to put their loyalty to a failed president over the welfare of our military and the world order.
I guess they will be partying like it was 2004 when they go out in a big swirl down the bowl in January ‘09.
How sad their lives will be then.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:55 pmWebb… Reid… Don’t let this derail you. We’ve had it with non-binding resolutions and the troops have too. If you give in here, I will vote for the People’s Worker Party candidate before I ever back another Democrat. Mine will be one of the two votes that candidate gets, but you’ll know it’s mine. And you will wonder how your party lost again.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:58 pmWhen push comes to shove - the repugnicants will put their party over the country every time.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:02 pmWarner is as disgusting as the rest of them.
The republiscum have a pact to thwart every effort made by the dems (and they can do so because the dems have such a slim majority) - the republiscum are doing this because they will perpetuate and repeat the phrase “do-nothing”congress” with the dems in charge. No matter whether or not it is better for the military, better for the citizenry, or better for prisoners, or the environment or whatever a proposal may be an improvement — the scum will oppose it in lockstep because they do not want the dems to be successful at anything. This is a deliberate sabotage at the expense of the nation.
…
but, it ISN’T any kind of “Sense of the Senate 
not unless a minority is the new majority…
i don’t get it…
September 19th, 2007 at 1:08 pm.
“You can say you support the troops, but when you smear one of the most respected generals who is leading the Iraq war, YOU DON’T SUPPORT THE TROOPS!”
waaaaaaah! did the poor widdle general get his feelings hurt? i’m ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that general has never taken a political stance in favor of mr. bush during an election…
and i’m also ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that no one on the right has EVER ATTACKED another member of the military who came out against the war…
quit whoring that b.s. “support the troops” canard. the administration has regularly used the troops, including petraeus, as props and political shields. your false outrage is both insulting and hilarious.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:09 pmand i wish you all wouldn’t be so damned cocky about
the 08 elections and the glorious democratic decades after…
it ain’t in the bag, by any means…
we’re dealing with CRIMINALS here…
September 19th, 2007 at 1:10 pm…
Comment by Cynicon Implant — September 19, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
Not micromanaging the war, just trying to protect the troops and save our military from being totally destroyed by BushCo.
And as to the domestic issues, better look into the (men’s room) mirror for those failures. Repugs have had the controls for the past 6 1/2 years and still have a veto-proof minority.
Hope that cleared thing up for you.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:16 pmWar Criminal Bush and his band of repukian brown shirters could give a rats a$$ about the troops. As long as they are making money this thing is gonna last a real long time. With no end in sight.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pmgo warner and mccain - go get your lobotomies reversed you lying sacks of murdering theiving shite!
September 19th, 2007 at 1:22 pm…….one of the most respected generals who is leading the Iraq war, YOU DON’T SUPPORT THE TROOPS!
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 12:28 pm
You mean that little chicken$hi+ mouthpeice for this criminal Administration? Puh-leeeeeze.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:22 pmwell, katy, i agree (especially with the criminals part)…but my point above was that i am beside myself in disbelief over the sheer stupidity of the republicans in congress.
it’s not that they are married to this disaster of a president and his policies, they now seem to be caught in a trance-like obsession with him - like the deer in the headlights, they know the wreck is coming but they can’t seem to be able to swerve out of the way. it’s like they’ve been so brainwashed in the republican mantras that they can’t realize the death by a thousand cuts they’re causing themselves. they truly are party over people.
so my point is that if we’re still at >100,000 troops in iraq and the continuing disaster it is, there really is no way to avert electoral disaster for the republicans in 2008, save for the cheating, of course.
well, there is also that next terrorist attack the wingnuts are now basically praying happens, sick bastards they are.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:22 pmit must make a troll proud to screw the troops - to watch the numbers roll in as troops get maimed and die - and the people you elected responsible. You gotta’ be so proud as you watch the deficit climb and the dollar sink. The Chinese century! Another bush accomplishment!
Hey brother, can you spare a loonie?
September 19th, 2007 at 1:25 pmYou know, saying you support the troops by supporting the war is like saying you support the fire department by starting fires.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:26 pmas for mccain and warner betraying the troops, themselves, the american people, the people who voted for them, the little guys who enlisted trusting that their govt would never send them to war without just cause… well. just another day for traitorous lying self-serving scum.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:28 pmMcCain promoting ‘For more years’ as a campaign slogan adds a whole new level to the definition of the word ‘delusional’.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:33 pmnail on the head Katy.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:41 pm#20 THe views of generals that are in charge of Iraq currently are not as important as the general currently in charge. When moveon.org decided to smear our troops with their horrid ad, everyone should have came out against them. I floors me that you dems didn’t take a stand against it. And if you are against ads that smear our troops, you are clearly against our troops.
September 19th, 2007 at 1:49 pmComment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
You miss it again. The issue here is NOT Petraeus. It is that the troops need a rest - you try and derail the issue by claiming this false outrage about ONE AD, but not outraged about the extended tours, the substandard care, the waving of benefits claiming “personality disorders” instead of PTSD - AFTER THEY SERVED in combat. The fact that you choose one General’s potentially hurt feelings over those nameless hundreds of thousands that are sweating, bleeding, and dying in the battlefield of Iraq, exposes your exploitation of the troops.
I shouldn’t, but in response to your pitiful “my general is better because he is there now” argument. The other generals WERE IN CHARGE. Two resigned in protest, and two were replaced - one by an ADMIRAL which, in American history, has never led a ground war, that isn’t their job. The other two weren’t listened to in the beginning. Like I said, the one currently in charge is there because those who put him there like what he has to say - true or not. You can keep clouding the issue and getting outraged when one Soldier is slammed and you also keep quiet when TONS of others that have spoke out were slammed or silenced.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:09 pmTwo ancients making decisions that are beyond their collective capacity.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pmApparently “War” ner has returned from self retirement to put his hex on the troops.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:12 pm…
[the repugs] do not want the dems to be successful at anything. This is a deliberate sabotage at the expense of the nation.
Comment by Marie — September 19, 2007 @ 1:02 pm
you do that so well!… i’ve been listening too, but could not even TRY to reiterate that message as eloquently as you have… thanks!
and THAT is the answer to my question above, i fear…
they do not want the dems to have credit for anything positive…
it is up to the dem leadership to make that fact known -
September 19th, 2007 at 2:15 pmloudly and repeatedly… the repugs are obstructing the will of the people…
…
You know, saying you support the troops by supporting the war is like saying you support the fire department by starting fires.
Comment by TheToonGuy — September 19, 2007 @ 1:26 pm
good one… … i heard another the other day, from randi…
something like:
dubya calling the return of 30,000 troops a withdrawal,
is like saying childbirth is a weight-loss plan…
cracked me up…
September 19th, 2007 at 2:23 pm.
Yeah, trashing a general who speaks the truth is so wrong, I just wish those having hissy-fits about the MoveOn ad were as irate when this Administration and it’s media whores shredded Gen Eric Shinseki or Spec Thomas Wilson
Nice to see that Warner wants his entire political career to be summed up by his pathetic “lackey” status on every issue close to Dear Leader W’s heart
September 19th, 2007 at 2:50 pmI just wish that the Democratic leadership would make them follow through on each and every filibuster. Let them talk. Let them defend their positions. Let their forced continuation of discussion make the news. Not as a stunt, as an agreement to the Minorities exerted will to continue discussion. Their request is legitimate and their is no reason to move on to the next topic just because they threaten to continue debate. So let them talk, every time they vote to not close debate.
If I understand correctly, the minority must sustain the discussion and if they cannot, then the vote proceeds. If it appears they have run out of breath, vote for cloture. If it again fails to close discussion, well then they should feel free to keep talking, but make them sustain it. I can’t find anything that holds the Democrats to having to participate in the debate itself at all.
From Wikipedia:
As a form of obstructionism in a legislature or other decision making body, a filibuster is an attempt to extend debate upon a proposal in order to delay or completely prevent a vote on its passage. The term first came into use in the United States Senate, where Senate rules permit a senator, or a series of senators, to speak for as long as they wish and on any topic they choose, unless a supermajority group of 60% of senators brings debate to a close by invoking cloture.
This seems to me to be the biggest mistake that the Majority is making. We are allowing them to obstruct through threat without ever requiring them to follow through with it. Let them talk. Let them talk as long and abotu whatever they want, just as the procedure provides for.
Make them follow through and draw the attention to themselves. Over and over again. If other bills or actions are being delayed because the Republicans actually do continue their discussion, that is what the Democrats should be bringing to light when they are being interviewed. “We would like to move on to bill x, y and z, but the Minority has chosen to invoke this procedure and we are respecting their decision. When they have decided that they have had their fair say and that we can proceed with the simple majority vote on Bill A, we will move forward. Until then, the Republican party has the floor as is required by their actions.”
Stop allowing them to drive a 60 vote requirement into the public consciousness. I bet that with as many times as this has happened of late that if a poll was taken asking what the requirements are for a vote to pass the Senate, some percentage would now believe that it is a 60 vote majority.
Senate Majority leaders. Make them follow through. Please.
September 19th, 2007 at 4:28 pmmnamna,
PREACH ON!! If they want to debate let them. They will give more and more sound bites showing their true colors. IF they bring up any valid points (and that is a BIIIIG IF), then you can address them, otherwise, let them bury themselves. The beauty of it is it still takes the high road. It isn’t an underhanded or dirty trick. It is using the procedures as they were designed to be used.
(awesome name too 8-)
September 19th, 2007 at 4:45 pmToday, John Warner blew whatever credibility he had with his despicable reversal on the Webb Amendment. He will carry that decision and vote with him during his final months in the Senate.
Meanwhile, our troops and military families are stretched to the breaking point. But for Warner, it’s more important to jump through Bush’s hoops. How low will he stoop?
September 19th, 2007 at 5:49 pmNice. Warner is a toothless and spineless old weasel and McCain is an asskissing nutjob.
Gotta love how they “support our troops”.
September 19th, 2007 at 5:55 pmDitch Mitch KY - i heard the head of your group on
September 19th, 2007 at 6:09 pmlaura flanders/AirAmericaRadio this past weekend…
was that you? … good radio, that…
Is it not a shames that 2 “war Heroes”?? are afraid of a war’s coward.
September 19th, 2007 at 7:26 pmDo you really believe any of their “exploits” of the past. Everything about them is questionable now. Shame on them and all the other REPUBLICANTS.
Republican Hyprocrites……..
September 19th, 2007 at 7:39 pmIf Bush and republicans are so patriotic and for our military and troops , why in the h… do they keep passing and stopping bills for their health and welfare.
Cut health benefits , destroy their hospitals , give not the best of armor and equipment , and now work them to death.
Bush , Cheney and the republicans should switch some of their time with the soldiers.