Webb Slams McCain’s Opposition To His Pro-Troop Amendment: He ‘Needs To Read The Constitution’
Webb Slams McCain’s Opposition To His Pro-Troop Amendment: He ‘Needs To Read The Constitution’
The Senate is set to consider Sen. Jim Webb’s amendment “requiring that active-duty troops and units have at least equal time at home as the length of their previous tour overseas.” Under the current Pentagon policy, troops are deployed for 15 months, but receive just 12 months at home.
Yesterday, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), an adamant opponent of Webb’s pro-troop amendment, urged Congress to reject the measure:
The Constitution of the United States gives no authority for the Congress of the United States to set lengths of tour or lengths of duty in the military and I hope we will steadfastly reject this kind of micromanagement, which would create chaos.
This morning on CNN, Webb rebutted McCain’s assertion that the Senate has no role in troop deployments:
Well, first of all, Sen. McCain, who I’ve known for 30 years, needs to read the Constitution. There is a provision in Article I, Section 8, which clearly gives the Congress the authority to make rules with respect to the ground and naval forces. There’s precedent for this.
He also urged the President to “think twice” about vetoing the bill if it passes, since it would be “an expression of the Congress that basically said you can’t keep people in Iraq longer than you’re allowing them to be at home.” Watch it:
In July, Webb’s amendment received approval from the majority of the Senate — 56 votes — but was filibustered by the Republican leadership. Sen. John Warner (R-VA), who supported the bill in July, has now said that is appeased by the administration’s token withdrawal and may vote against it.
Contact your senators and urge them to vote for Webb’s pro-troop amendment.
UPDATE: OpenLeft, Firedoglake, Digby, Working Assets, Taylor Marsh, AMERICAblog, Raising Kaine, Eschaton, Huffington Post, DailyKos, and TPM have more.
Transcript:
HOST: There have been questions about whether or not — in theory it sounds good, but whether it would work tactically. And yesterday in Ohio, Sen. John McCain, himself a war veteran, had this to say about the amendment. Let’s listen.
[McCAIN CLIP]: The Constitution of the United States gives no authority for the Congress of the United States to set lengths of tour or lengths of duty in the military and I hope we will steadfastly reject this kind of micromanagement, which would create chaos.
HOST: That’s what he said. Are you micromanaging or overstepping your boundaries as a senator?
WEBB: Well, first of all, Sen. McCain, who I’ve known for 30 years, needs to read the Constitution. There is a provision in Article I, Section 8, which clearly gives the Congress the authority to make rules with respect to the ground and naval forces. There’s precedent for this.
I used to run the mobilization programs in the Pentagon when I was Assistant Secretary of Defense –
HOST: Why did it fail earlier this summer then, if it’s not contentious?
WEBB: Well, because the Iraq war is contentious. And it was roughly along party lines — although we did get seven Republicans for it — and I think that from then until now, hopefully we’ve had enough people begin to understand more clearly how difficult this is for the men and women who are making these repeated deployments.
HOST: Right. I know you know this first-hand because your own son is just back. He was deployed from service in May and is now back at Camp LeJeune. But the Defense chief also opposes it because he says we’re having enough difficulty as it is with the 15-month deployment and 12 months at home, making this work. Are we setting ourselves up for disaster if we don’t have enough troops in the war zone?
WEBB: We’re not setting ourselves up for failure. The question is, as Adm. Fallon said — he’s Gen. Petraeus’s operational commander — is not how many you have, it’s how you use them. Now I’ve been around the military all my life. It’s not just my service or my son’s service. I’ve talked to people who are in Iraq, who have been to Iraq, on a daily basis. This is something that can work. The administration can no longer be believed when it’s talking about policy in Iraq.
Five years ago, I wrote a piece for the Washington Post saying that if we went into Iraq, there would be no exit strategy because these people didn’t intend to leave. It’s taken them five years to admit that. They did last week, when they said we were going to be, in their view, in Iraq — just like we were in Korea — for the next 50 years.
HOST: But hold on. Is this amendment part of a larger strategy to bringing the troops home?
WEBB: Well, if the debate is going to go on like this, and if we now have an administration that is admitting it wants to be in Iraq for the next 50 years, we have to put a safety net under the way they’re using our people. And I think that’s an appropriate role of the Congress.
HOST: The President is threatening a veto. Will this be all for naught, even if you do get the 60 votes, senator?
WEBB: If I were the President of the United States, and I had an expression of the Congress that basically said you can’t keep people in Iraq longer than you’re allowing them to be at home, I’d think twice before I vetoed that.
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Shorter McCain: We don’t need no stinkin’ Constitution.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:51 amJohn Warner’s obviously being blackmailed to change his tune in some form or other – any skeletons in the closet, John? Rattle, rattle.
And everything McInsane touches turns to trash, including his own campaign.
Someone needs to read McCain the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Obviously, when he was brainwashed in Vietnam, they did a frontal lobectomy as well.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:52 amC’mon, Jim! We’ve been waiting patiently for you to “show him the way.” This is the time to REALLY show Bush the way.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:54 amgreat tip from Paul @ 9:32 am, in the FAST thread:
Its time to take a page from the republican playbook and rename the Webb Amendment to The Military Recovery Act, Support our Troops Amendment, Military Readiness Act or Military Recuperation Act (like the right did with the warrantless wiretapping to Terrorist Surveillance Program). The point is to give it a self-explanatory name so that when republicans filibuster or vote no, the MSM commentators will report that the republicans voted against the “Troop Readiness Act†etc, not against the Webb amendment.[...]
September 19th, 2007 at 10:57 am…
McCain is more interested in getting to the Oval Office then he is our troops safely home. Webb was given the job to do what he said and what the voters told him. McCain has long forgotten his years in the military as he backed Bush/Cheney torture bill knowing what it’s like to be tortured.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:58 amI think we need a requirement for a remedial course in the Constitution for certain senators who have forgotten their civics classes.
September 19th, 2007 at 10:59 amThe White House has attempted – and with distressing success – to singlehandedly rewrite the law of our land, and, with the aid and support of persons like McCain, their disgraceful and anti-American practices will be allowed to continue.
At what point will the people of Arizona vote McCain out of office? Seems like the guy has slide so far down hill, he isn’t even effective anymore.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:00 amKaty: I love that – Military Recovery Act. It IS time for Democrats to play Bush’s game in whatever form it takes. It begins with the naming of things to elicit immediate approval from the people.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:01 amI can’t imagine being a resident of Arizona and not being unbelievably embarrassed by John McCain at this point. He goes out of his way to illustrate his ignorance and stupidity – not to mention the inhumane quality of his inferences by using the Beach Boys tune. He’s also a bona-fide sadist, like his idol.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:02 amIf they wouldn’t dump him after the Keating Five scandal, I don’t know why they’d suddenly find anything wrong with McCain’s behavior now.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:08 am#10 – “I cannot believe this guy (Sen. McCain) remembers anything about the Vietnam war, let alone was a POW in that stupid war.” Comment by OMEGA_3 — September 19, 2007 @ 11:05 am
I still remember the Republicans sliming Sen. McCain in 2000 when he was running for Republican Nomination, saying his time as a POW made him mentally unfit for President.
I guess when Republicans spit on veterans, it’s acceptable behavior.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:10 amMornin’ Verbalkint, Marie, Jackie, Krazny! Isn’t it wonderful to have our threads “exterminated” of the vermin who have been littering our threads with fecal material for so long? Ah, yes…
September 19th, 2007 at 11:10 amDemocratic Solder: This may be ancient history but remember the “thumpin’” GWB gave McCain during those presidential debates? Phew! Anyone with a brain and a modicum of self-respect would have distanced himself immediately from a bully like Bush. Instead, McCain sucks up and stumps for the man who emasculated him publicly. That made it clear that McCain had a frontal lobotomy when he was held prisoner. Now we can see the evidence quite clearly.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:11 amIMHO, the Webb amendment is the most important piece of legislation that has faced this congress. Speaking from personal experience, troops need time home between deployments. This is time for R&R, PTSD counseling, SRP packets, replacing broken equipment, and training. All of these things take time, and all are equally important.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:12 ama long time ago, i wondered if mcCAVE was the “annointed one” for
repug prez 08…
yesterday on rachel maddow, she reported an under-the-radar story of poppy bush showing up at a mcCAVE rally…
i heard the audio – it was an endorsement, if nothing else…
eh?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:12 amComment by Veritas — September 19, 2007 @ 11:10 am
It is, but I have been trying since yesterday to register, but I had to change my handle (from upside00) because they had some kind of database error and was unrecoverable.
Wonder if mr. p will register?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:13 amJesus! Make this stop please.
The only way this will stop is with the immediate impeachment of Cheney and then Bush. These two conniving charlatans have plenty of time to do more damage in the coming year, if not stopped in their tracks right now. Uncovering the horrendous things they’ve done is just beginning; unraveling 6 years worth of dirtywork may take decades.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:13 amComment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Try to keep up, numbnuts. Sen. Webb was never accused of carrying a gun in the Capitol — it was one of his aides.
But we Virginians are thrilled to have him representing us — Sen. Webb is a far better representative of our state than his predecessor, Macacca-boy Allen. And once Sen. Warner retires next fall, we can finish the business of turning Virginia blue by electing another Warner to replace him — former Gov. Mark Warner (D).
Now go back to your sandbox and play, and leave the discussion to we adults.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:15 amHiya Upside! So nice to see you here again! I think the registration process experienced some infancy glitches yesterday but I’ve heard it’s running quite smoothly right now. I had a few glitches when I tried to register as well but was persistent. This should keep the trolls at bay and “banned” if they intend to hijack our threads. Kudos to Faiz and all of the TP buddies.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:15 am“Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn’t. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may.” ~Mark Twain
OK Warner, McCain and all you worthless obstructionist GOPers, you KNOW what the right thing to do is, when will you stop kissing the collective asses of your greedy, misguided, ever shrinking neocon/religious blood sucking base and make a stand for America? You work for “the people”. This is not limited to that tiny minority buzzing in your ear constantly. WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF? Follow the course you are now on and there will be more American blood on your hands. Follow the course you are now on and history will find your acts as reprehensible as your lame duck President and his self serving fascist VP.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:16 amIsn’t it wonderful to have our threads “exterminated†of the vermin who have been littering our threads with fecal material for so long? Ah, yes…
Comment by Veritas — September 19, 2007 @ 11:10 am
that can only be solved completely by refraining from feeding and
arguing with those who do get here… they cannot be “saved”…
i’m all for discussion, but the school yard taunts were annoying…
let’s all see if we can ALL help out with that…
September 19th, 2007 at 11:16 am…
At least JakeD (Mr. Pee, et al) will be held to only one moniker and will not be able to hijack one of ours. This is great!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:16 amThis is the time to REALLY show Bush the way.
Comment by Menehune — September 19, 2007 @ 10:54 am
How about showing Bush the EXIT?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:17 amKaty: I agree and echo your sentiments. However, there are people whose preference is to engage in the argument and that’s fine for them. For me, I’ve made a pact with myself to never respond directly to any known troll.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:18 amOr as PT Barnum would have put it, “This Way To the Egress!”
September 19th, 2007 at 11:18 amAlso I’d just like to commend Faiz and the rest @ TP for the new rating/password system. You now have substantially more checks and balances in place than the entire Administration!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:18 amBeing a fellow Vietnam vet, I find Webb to be a true breath of fresh air along with a few others, as they are the only non-Chickenhawks in the group and know what war is really like. I just hope the swiftboating doesn’t get too nasty for him. I think there may be something to it happening to Warner, though. Was a strange about-face on his part.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:19 amHopefully, this new registration process will use the IP address as well to eliminate multiple registrations by the same troll. It should work as it is designed.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:19 amI don’t understand why you care of Webb is carrying a gun. Last time I checked the second amendment allows citizens of the US to be armed.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:19 amIs Webb still carrying a gun?
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:07 am
What an irrational comment.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:19 amIs Webb still carrying a gun?
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Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:07 am
if he is not ill ship him one of mine. and lots of ammo.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:20 amAny chance we can put Congressmen on the ground in Iraq for 15 months?
Good for the goose…
September 19th, 2007 at 11:20 amI think there may be something to it happening to Warner, though. Was a strange about-face on his part.
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Comment by upside99 — September 19, 2007 @ 11:19 am
You know it! When Warner makes such an obvious and abrupt aboutface, you know they’re blackmailing him with something. It’s the MO of the GOP. It’s called “eating their own”.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:20 amIs Webb still carrying a gun?
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:07 am
What an irrational comment.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 19, 2007 @ 11:19 am
Wheter Webb or one of his aides, better than Darth carrying a shotgun when both he AND the gun are loaded!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:21 amComment by upside99 — September 19, 2007 @ 11:21 am
True… tis true…
September 19th, 2007 at 11:23 amAny chance we can put Congressmen on the ground in Iraq for 15 months?
Good for the goose…
Republic: Absolutely! In fact, the people need to press for something even more “fair” in terms of their ability to represent the people. It should be part of their agreement to serve as congressmen that, when a vote to engage this country in a war, any “yes” vote is immediately accompanied by the ’subscription of themselves or, if too old or sick to serve, then the enlistment of a close family member into the conflict”.
Then we’d see a personalization of what war actually means. They would find themselves involved “up close and personal”. This should be a requirement for Congress.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:24 amComment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:23 am
Irrelevant and off-topic. Stop trying to hijack the thread.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:24 amIt’s easy to sign other people’s children up to die but when the shoe is on their foot, their nonchalance would definitely change.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:25 amWhen our resident troll lights on our threads, simply pretend he doesn’t exist (because he really doesn’t in terms of intelligent or valid discourse) and simply blow him away mentally.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:26 amHis aide was accused of carrying the SENATOR’S gun into the Senate, but the charges were dropped. Get YOUR story straight.
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:23 am
#
So the aide was the one carrying the gun? Who cares? What does that have to do with the Webb Amendment?
Better question: Do you believe troops should have time home between deployments for R&R, PTSD counseling, SRP packets, replacing broken equipment, and training? We did allow this during Korea, btw.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:27 amIgnoring…great idea. No more feeding of the trolls!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:27 amThis should be a requirement for Congress.
Comment by Veritas — September 19, 2007 @ 11:24 am
There was ana article in the local newspaper this am about all the new Iraq War docs about to come out. Sez we’re all gonna get an immediate, up-close, digital look at this nightmare soon, if we have the stomach to do so. Personally, I think this is great.
We get an opportunity to see our tax dollars at work!
September 19th, 2007 at 11:28 amIt’s easy to drop bombs on people from 20,000, much harder to stick a bayonet in ‘em when you have to look ‘em in the eye. Jes’ sayin’….
September 19th, 2007 at 11:29 amWhy do republicans hate on the troops so much. They send them into a unwinnable quagmire and then reject an amendment that would give them more rest at home before another deployment. The repups only use the troops as pawns. They could care less about them.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:30 amUnfortunately, this president is incapable of thinking beyond a 6th grade level so Bush(olini) will continue with his childish, stubborn behavior and veto any bill that comes before his desk that isn’t in lock-step with his arrogance. (enjoying this spell check feature).
September 19th, 2007 at 11:32 amThe repups only use the troops as pawns. They could care less about them.
Comment by GregM — September 19, 2007 @ 11:30 am
One could say they use them as a front for Blackwater, and the mercs get paid many times more and have no oversight.
Jes’ gets uglier and uglier, don’t it?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:33 amWebb is an idiot.
Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:32 am
Irrational comment.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:34 amKaty at #4 with a HT to Paul in the fast thread –
September 19th, 2007 at 11:36 amI, too, think that renaming these bills with language similar to that which the repugs use might garner more support in the general public as well as in the legislature.
Military Recovery Act — Military Readiness Act — who could object to that?
Loaded/Framed Bill names:
Bring Our Troops Home to families Act
Support Our Troops Act
Respect Our Troops Act
September 19th, 2007 at 11:38 amWebb can try and slam all he wants. Bush currently has 3 times the supporters the Dems have seeing that the Dem controlled government has only 11% approval ratings. Maybe it is time for them to work with Bush seeing as though bush has 3 times the approval rating the dems have.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:41 amComment by bob h — September 19, 2007 @ 11:38 am
#
Nice. A republican senator would have a very hard time explaining why he voted against the “Support Our Troops” act.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:41 am‘Morn’n, TPers.
Been on the road for a few days, so first look at new format.
Me Like!
I see Jake the Snake is still slithering around, but it looks peaceful & quiet, comparatively.
Katy, great comment! I would fully support your suggestions on re-naming Senator Webb’s proposal.
It’s interesting how the Righties are spinning this. Gates himself says we would ‘break’ our military by giving the equal time off for every tour of duty. If it’s that fragile, how can we NOT give them equal time off?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:42 amComment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 11:41 am
#
Do you believe troops should have time home between deployments for R&R, PTSD counseling, SRP packets, replacing broken equipment, and training?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:42 amWebb can try and slam all he wants. Bush currently has 3 times the supporters the Dems have seeing that the Dem controlled government has only 11% approval ratings. Maybe it is time for them to work with Bush seeing as though bush has 3 times the approval rating the dems have.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Why do you hate the military?
September 19th, 2007 at 11:52 amWow, it’s directly in the Constitution. McCain is daft.
~Sean
September 19th, 2007 at 11:53 amJesus! Make this stop please! – says veritas at #19.
September 19th, 2007 at 11:59 amAnd I say AMEN.
test
September 19th, 2007 at 12:01 pmKaty, great comment! I would fully support your suggestions on re-naming Senator Webb’s proposal.
Comment by Zimzone — September 19, 2007 @ 11:42 am
the credit goes to Paul @ 9:32 am, in the FAST thread !!!
i called and talked to webb’s office… gave that information to the guy who answered, he promised to give it to webb, but he was on the floor at that time… he liked the idea, but wasn’t sure if it was too late to change it…
September 19th, 2007 at 12:02 pm…
Bummer.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:06 pmMcCain always falls asleep at about Article I, section 6 or so.
Webb can try and slam all he wants. Bush currently has 3 times the supporters the Dems have seeing that the Dem controlled government has only 11% approval ratings. Maybe it is time for them to work with Bush seeing as though bush has 3 times the approval rating the dems have.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 19, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Sigh. Here we go again.
1) Please justify your 11% congressional approval figure. Latest CBS poll — 24%. Latest Fox poll — 32%. Latest AP poll — 26%.
http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm
2) Congress traditionally has lower approval ratings than the president no matter who is “controlling” Congress and no matter who is in the White House. Why? Because the White House is only one guy and people either like him or they don’t. Congress isn’t a person, it’s an entity. People tend to support their own Congressperson but condemn the rest. If the poll question was “do you approve of the job YOUR Congressperson is doing?”, the number would be quite different. Because this isn’t asked, any approval number is pretty meaningless.
3) A razor-thin majority of Democrats in both houses of Congress doesn’t even come close to a “Dem controlled government”. The Repubs still control the executive branch (including Cheney’s secret branch), the judicial branch, and they have enough votes in Congress to effectively stalemate any activity there. The only way to break the stalemate, since the Repubs don’t want to do anything but obstruct, is to elect enough Dems to create a veto-proof Congress. And the way the Repubs are tanking, this is likely to happen in 2008.
3) You can spin Bush’s approval ratings all you want, but the fact remains that a sizeable majority of the country does NOT approve of the job he’s doing. A turd is a turd, no matter how you dress it up.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:09 pmSo now McCain is decrying how this “micromanagement” would create chaos. Before, he was talking about how the Webb amendment would demoralize the troops. Both of these arguments would make any sensible person go “HUH???”
McCain can spew forth as much nonsense as he wishes, but it’s pretty obvious that his real objective is to keep as many boots on the ground as possible over there, for as long as possible, and work them until they all have PTSS.
As a former military man, he should know this isn’t a really smart idea.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:15 pmSpeaking of polls, here’s the chymp’s latest from
CBS
Dates
9/14-16/07
Approve 29%
Disapprove 64%
Duh 7%
Diff -35 %
Congratulations Rogersquared, your hero is back in the twenties!
And as for congress:
CBS News Poll. Sept. 14-16, 2007. N=706 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4 (for all adults). LV = likely voters. RV = registered voters.
“Do you approve or disapprove of the way Congress is handling its job?”
Approve 27%
Disapprove 65%
Unsure 8%.
and
FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll. Sept. 11-12, 2007. N=900 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3. LV = likely voters. Except where noted, results below are among registered voters.
“Do you approve or disapprove of the job Congress is doing?”
Approve 32%
Disapprove 56%
Unsure 11%
So this is hilarious, Faux Snooze poll responders approve of congress better than CBS poll responders approve of the chymp.
Refutation, RogerSquared?
September 19th, 2007 at 12:24 pmFunny how R2 wants to talk about polls but has nothing to say about the topic except that Dubya will veto it.
Plain that R2 was never in the military and thinks the troops are scum, just like BushCo.
September 19th, 2007 at 12:40 pmThe Dogfather (did you have a different screen name prior to registration?):
His aide was accused of carrying the SENATOR’S gun into the Senate, but the charges were dropped. Get YOUR story straight. Comment by Jake D. — September 19, 2007 @ 11:23 am
I know you’re long gone, back to your sandbox by now moron — but YOU’RE the one who’s not getting the story straight.
Read your own original post, idiot, and then compare it to what you said in your 11:23 post. You’ve proven my point — that Sen. Webb’s aide was the one carrying the gun, not the Senator himself.
Keep on trying, though — one day you might able to think your way out of that wet paper bag…but none of us are betting on it.
Oh, and no, I didn’t have a different name prior to registration; I’ve been the Dogfather for quite a while here, and elsewhere. But please do put me on your “ignore” list — and then put yourself on there too. Cretin.
September 19th, 2007 at 2:49 pm