Did Conservative Reporter Conspire With Bush On Question Bashing Democrats?
Did Conservative Reporter Conspire With Bush On Question Bashing Democrats?
At the end of yesterday’s press conference, a reporter asked President Bush what was his “reaction” to MoveOn.org’s Gen. Petraeus ad in the New York Times. The question — the last of the briefing — gave Bush an opportunity to express his disappointment in the “leaders of the Democrat party“:
I thought the ad was disgusting. I felt like the ad was an attack not only on General Petraeus, but on the U.S. military. And I was disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat Party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad. And that leads me to come to this conclusion: that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org — or more afraid of irritating them than they are of irritating the United States military. That was a sorry deal. It’s one thing to attack me; it’s another thing to attack somebody like General Petraeus.
Perhaps not surprisingly, the question came from Washington Examiner reporter Bill Sammon, who is also a frequent Fox News guest and formerly a Washington Times reporter. Washington Post reporter Dana Milbank notes that Bush was in “need of a pick-me-up” after a series of tough questions on the economy, Iraq, and SCHIP. Therefore, he “looked toward the back of the room” and personally chose Sammon, aka “Big Stretch.”
Sammon has written four books on Bush, enjoying a close relationship and unprecedented access. His bio for speaking engagements brags:
Six-foot-seven inch Bill Sammon–nicknamed “Superstretch” by President Bush–enjoys more access to the commander-in-chief than any other journalist. Sammon has spent hours with Bush in the Oval Office, aboard Air Force One–even in the President’s sprawling Texas ranch. As Senior White House Correspondent for the Washington Examiner, Bill Sammon travels with Bush wherever he goes and was with him on September 11, when his presidency was utterly transformed by the terrorist attacks.
Sammon’s friendly softball paid off for the Bush administration. This morning, NBC’s Today Show covered Bush’s comments condemning MoveOn and Democrats, as did last night’s NBC Nightly News and ABC World News. The AP reported on Bush’s remarks, noting that he “criticized Democrats for not immediately condemning the MoveOn.org ad, which he called ‘disgusting.’”
UPDATE: Last night on MSNBC, Keith Olbermann called out Bush for picking Sammon as the last question, so that there was “no chance at a follow-up” to point out that Bush was the one who actually “interjected General Petraeus into the political dialogue of this nation in the first place.”
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Sammon? Almost rhymes with Gannon. And what exactly is that Bush nickname for him of “Superstretch” based upon? Probably not his height but rather the effect of his girth.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:31 amStill waiting on Bush to condemn disgusting attack ads against Max Cleland and John Kerry.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:31 amSammons bio will probably be revised if and when GDumbya is impeached. Gotta laugh, though. This guy claiming his close personal relationship with GDumbya . . . it’s kinda like Capote befriending a couple murderers and getting a book out of it.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:33 amThank god the administration has found a worthy successor to Jeff Gannon. And this time, the guy even works for a real news organization… well… at least a quasi news organization. And I don’t think he’s a male prostitute at all.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:33 amI’m curious, when is the President and the Republic (sic) Party going to come out and condemn every right-wing hate radio commentator? When are they going to discuss condemning people like Ann Coulter or Michael Savage on the floors of Congress? This is such a ridiculous attempt to distract people from the real issues. Bush is desperate.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:33 amhes gay, gotta be
September 21st, 2007 at 11:34 amSudan
Phillipines
Singapore
Indonesia
Austrailia
United Kingdom
Spain
Russia
kuwait
Tunisia
Yemen
Kenya
Saudi
Morocco
Turkey
pakistan
india
any more, i bet there are
while the rest of the world is caught ina conflagration of terror the us is dawdling in iraq
September 21st, 2007 at 11:35 amI here he’s got a “wide stance”
September 21st, 2007 at 11:36 amthats old fashioned of him
September 21st, 2007 at 11:36 amSammon’s the kind of mother who holds George’s hand when he pees.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:37 amThose that praise the king, who shine his shoes and buff his gleaming image, get special treatment. The world opens wide for those who kiss the ring.
And the media, fed the fine foods of pre-made stories, with a bill already paid, fawn and do their merry duty to the king – ensuring his graces.
The truth, intelligent discourse, and the nation ruled are but beggars at the window looking in on all the kings men.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:41 amI wonder if Sammon goes to the Men’s room with Bush too? :-)
September 21st, 2007 at 11:42 amhey jake remembered how to type….pat on the head…now back to your corner
September 21st, 2007 at 11:42 amHow is it that the right wing loons never discuss the actual CONTENTS of the Move-On ad? All they do is mention two words in the title (”Betray Us”) as though they were hypnotized by them. Thus, they accuse Move-On of calling Petraeus a traitor, words that are never mentioned in the ad. The words immediately following “Betray Us” in the ad are “cooking the books”. That’s what the ad accuses Petraeus of doing, cooking the books, not of being a traitor or Benedict Arnold to his country. The ad does not attack the US military, either. The entire focus of the Move-On ad is to question whether, in his (then) upcoming testimony before Congress, Petraeus would use questionable statistics regarding the violence in Iraq, such as the practice of counting only Iraqis shot in the front part of their body as incidences of sectarian violence. The right wing loons are not attacking the Move-On ad. Instead, they are attacking two words from the ad, but not mentioning any of the content of the ad or refuting the claim that Petraeus’ statistics were questionable.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:42 amBush is afraid of 80+ Helen Thomas’ questions.
I’d give him a D- on press conference scores.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:45 amGood god… between rich DUI celebrities and OJ, and now THIS, I can’t take it anymore…. And that speech the President gave yesterday, where he had to look to the back of the room at one point and get asked by the Fox News correspondent “what he thought of the ad” after saying all of those bizzare things about his econ 101 grades etc….
September 21st, 2007 at 11:46 am“I thought the ad was disgusting. I felt like the ad was an attack not only on General Petraeus, but on the U.S. military. And I was disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat Party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad. And that leads me to come to this conclusion: that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org — or more afraid of irritating them than they are of irritating the United States military. That was a sorry deal. It’s one thing to attack me; it’s another thing to attack somebody like General Petraeus.”
This sounds like many of the conservatives who post here at TP. He calls the ad “disgusting” without refuting ANY of the points the ad made. He generalized about Democrats’ being afraid of a political action group (thus giving MoveOn more power than it really has). He declared Petraeus a sacred cow who must not ever be criticized or questioned, and he attempted to tie criticism of Petraeus with bashing the entire military.
It would have been refreshing (but totally out of character) if he had given an intelligent rebuttal to the actual content of the ad. Or at the very least, explained why the ad was “disgusting”.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:47 amBob, gotta put him on your ignore list like the rest of us. It’s fun to watch the trolls wave their hands and scream “look at me, look at me!…please?” Turn your back on him and watch the fun. I’m sure you can find clever ways to address the issues that seem important to him without actually giving him attention. If all else fails, just ask anyone if they heard anything. :)
September 21st, 2007 at 11:47 amComment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — September 21, 2007 @ 11:42 am
Dead on. I’ve asked that similar question to Exley and he dodged it.
The ad is using the same loaded questioning as does Fox News. I’m glad to see Moveon not backing down.
I would like to see anyone on the republican side to address the content of the ad.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:48 am“Bush is afraid of 80+ Helen Thomas’ questions.”
he’s also afraid of horses.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:48 amNot to mention unscripted questions and unscreened audiences.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:50 amOf course it was intentional…Chimpy ended the press conference wit that rigged question.
Check out Keith Olbermann’s latest Special Comment on the subject.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:51 am#1 – It does rhyme with Gannon of Gannon/Guckert gay sex fame, doesn’t it? Gannon was the one who logged in over 200 “visits” to the white house when no press events were scheduled; that is, before the nazis closed the visitor logs to the public. Can’t wait for Gannon to begin “singing” which, no doubt, he will.
As for Bill Sammon, he’s the newest “whore” for Bush. It’s time the people call them as they see them and let Bill Sammon know that “we know what he did”. This kind of journalism chicanery needs to be outed promptly.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:52 amYOu don’t think it is an important question? I want to know what the president and the Dem leaders of congress think about horrid statements bashing our troops. We as the public need to know where our leaders stand on thes important issues. We need to know if they are for or against these extremist groups and their anti-troop agenda.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:52 amChimpy can’t play any game wholesomely or fairly; the only way he plays is like a schoolyard bully – who sets everyone up and then exits stage left. What a sorry miscarriage of justice and a sick leader to have in front of us every day.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:53 am#26 If you read the article, clearly it’s about Bush’s self-appointed pimps who front for this clown; it has nothing to do with supporting the troops. If, however, it did, the dems would win hands down on a patriotic poll. Clearly, engaging in the continued “genocide” of our military is HARDLY being patriotic. It’s not even being human for goodness sakes.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:54 amI saw Draper the guy who wrote the recent book about Bush on TDS, and he pretty much says, that Bush who wants the tough guy image, is really only tough when the playing field is tilted in his favor. He is dishonest about who and what he is.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:55 amKeith Olbermann is really starting to impress me. Maybe it’s the fringey sportscaster background that gives him a “I’ll never be a real network anchorman, so I can say pretty much what I want” added to his stinging dialogues that really lay stuff out.
Listening to him is like watching a dissection, which is awesome for a country without a conscience.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:55 amEnd this Vulgar, Amoral, and highly “illegal” war and do the patriotic thing by bringing our children out of harm’s way immediately; otherwise, the “blood for oil” karma of our fallen heroes will be on the hands of the perpetrators who lied repeatedly to the american public about this war. Nuremberg, here they come! Can’t wait!
September 21st, 2007 at 11:56 amRoger_Rhetoric sez:
Hey, JACKASS:
Moveon.org’s ad did not “bash the troops”. It was directed at ONE general…a general who has clearly sacrificed his integrity to shill for this corrupt and criminal administration.
Sorry for the strong language, but conflating calling a government mouthpiece on his lies with “bashing the troops” is beneath even you, RR.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:56 amI was not offended by the ad, but rather by the behavior of General Patraeus and his deceitful Congressional testimony.
I am offended by the suggestion that I should be afraid to irritate the military with just criticism. I am a citizen, and, by design, the military is answerable to me, not the other way around.
The surest way to lose our Democracy is to act like we don’t have one.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:57 amThis Administration has a long history of feigned outrage over made up “controversies”.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:57 amThere’s a “Olberman for President” movement taking shape right now. It’s because Keith, above all others, has the chutzpah and courage to call a spade a spade – something which all of the pussy/cowardly Repukes are incapable of doing….as well as some democrats, too.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:57 amGeneral P can head up the war in Iraq but can’t take a little criticism from moveon.org? Well boo hoo. Olbermann had a great Special Comment on history’s treatment of generals who stepped off the battlefield and into the political limelight. They were booted by presidents with consciences.
Oh, and get rid of the Caesar haircut. It’s a little too obvious.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:58 am“Feigned outrage” it has to be because this GOP is gutless, spineless, and without conscience. They think life is a fictional work. They trivialize the big, juicy, incriminating stuff and try to make mountains out of mole hills. The public is no longer fooled by their brand of trickery though. The public outrage is reached a crescendo now.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:58 amWe need to know if they are for or against these extremist groups and their anti-troop agenda.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 21, 2007 @ 11:52 am
We’re against these extremist groups and their anti-troop agenda. That’s why we SO DESPERATELY want the GOOPers out of office, while are still SOME troops left alive to bring home. Thank you for joining us.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:59 amBill Sammon has been a shill for Bush since he helped sink Gore in 2000.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:59 amCandyce: Good observation on the Caesar haircut. I was thinking that all he had to do now was to grow a Stalin mustache to make the “get up” complete.
Petreus is nothing more than a political shill for Bush to distance himself from the feces being thrown in his face.
September 21st, 2007 at 11:59 amCheck out Keith Olbermann’s latest Special Comment on the subject.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 21, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Darn, you beat me to it…
September 21st, 2007 at 11:59 amComment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — September 21, 2007 @ 11:42 am
When has an attack from the right ever had it’s basis in content and facts? It’s all about repeating THEIR cockeyed (pun intended) view over and over to everyone and anyone until their version is simply accepted as fact. I haven’t seen one reporter, from CNN to any of the non-cable news channels actually point out the factual content in the ad. They simply show Bush’s sound bite, followed by countless GOOPers ranting about how moveon is attacking the troops. NOT ONE NETWORK has made the point that NOWHERE in the ad does it disparage the troops and that the worst the ad does is question the validity of this Administration stooge’s testimony and how it is discredited and greatly contrasted by the GAO Report, Patreus’ military boss, the Iraqis themselves, the Pentagon etc.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pmThe Patreus Report just doesn’t hold up to even the most basic scrutiny, however the MSM doesn’t see fit to make this point which, by the way, is the growing consensus of the large majority of Americans.
Jake D. sez:
Was that a response to me, Shakey? :)
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pmRe: Keith Olbermann — does he also think that Lincoln was to blame for going to Ford’s Theater?
Comment by Jake D. — September 21, 2007 @ 11:57 am
Just when you think the comments couldn’t possibly get any sillier…
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pm#36 ~ And no doubt your right-wingers will claim that Lincoln was killed by theater, not by some right-wing lunatic.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pm“I want to know what the president and the Dem leaders of congress think about horrid statements bashing our troops.”
see: swift boaters, ‘04 election.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pmYeah, Bob h put old fuddle butt on your ignore list…most of us are not responding to it’s posts anymore, and you notice it posts less and less because of it.
Ignore the it (you know who)
Buck Fush
September 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pm#41 Hats off to you! As Ricky Riccardo used to say: “that ’splains it completely!”
“Shill-Bill Sammon’s been outed as Bush’s “set up man”. He has to have them all over the place or he’d be totally pummelled these days.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pmAn interesting commentary regarding the Repuiblican reaction to the MoveOn ad:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1663424,00.html?cnn=yes
September 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pmYOu don’t think it is an important question? I want to know what the president and the Dem leaders of congress think about horrid statements bashing our troops.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Rx2. The ad says NOTHING about ‘The Troops’. NOTHING! It says Gen Patreous is a stooge for the GOP and Bush – which is true. Why can’t simply the facts get discussed by the right side? Just the facts. Patreous is a whore for the GOP. He will say and do anything our boy king tells him to. And BTW, if patreous is lying or shilling for the GOP, wouldn’t a patriotic American WANT to know that? You folks are hanging onto a thread of hope for another bombing on our soil to finally vindicate your idiot in chief.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pmBetween O really’s attacks on the daily kos and now the incredible attention given move on , it seems all too obvious the current strategy is to demonize the anti war movement and the left wing blogosphere !
September 21st, 2007 at 12:02 pmKeep up the good work folks I think we have their attention .
With all the hate spewed by the right on an endless basis such as Malkins attack on Sally Fields motherhood or the vitriolic diatribes of say an ann coulter It’s remarkable that they’ve become this desperate .
Looks like a swift boater moment , by the winning is everything crowd whose principles were clearly on display during the monica lewinsky spectacle .
Wake up Democrats your digging your own grave by disavowing the most powerful force in American politics outside the corporations money your taking !
while the rest of the world is caught ina conflagration of terror the us is dawdling in iraq
Comment by bob h — September 21, 2007 @ 11:35 am
Lets face it bob h, we’ve got our work cut out for us. Look at all the countries we have to invade next…
September 21st, 2007 at 12:02 pmThat’s right, Buckie Boy – no one feeds the trolls any longer. They now just sit there and twist in the wind knowing that no one gives a flying crap what they think, believe, or post. Must be tough being an outcast and a troll.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:02 pmHmmm… is the US on that list?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:02 pmVeritas sez:
Yes…and it must be especially tough when you ostracize yourself by means of a childish “ignore list”. ^_^
September 21st, 2007 at 12:05 pmBy the continuous attacks on the anti-war movement (which now clearly 60% of americans support) and the attempt to disembowel the blogosphere, the Repukes are losing ground fast. Their criminal activities are being broadcast internationally as fast as they are committing them and they’ve got no place to hide any longer. They’ll all be “outed” before all is said and done.
All these attacks do is to bring outrage and attention to the issues which they are botching daily. It’s bringing people from the Repug column to the Dem/Independent column. Soon the GOP’s numbers will be in the teens or very low 20’s.
I suspect with the patent rejection of 4 Repuke candidates for the black forum, their numbers will drop even more substantially now.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:05 pmYeah, Veritas I won’t even type it’s name anymore to give it recognition.
Ignore the it
Buck Fush
September 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pmTrip: WTF is an ignore list? Isn’t that the epitome of egocentricity to even develop one as if anyone cares??
September 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pmRoger_Roger:
Here’s a link to the actual ad. There you can read the contents of the ad instead of hallucinating about what the ad might or might not say, based on two words (”betray us”).
http://pol.moveon.org/petraeus.html
The words right after “Betray Us” explain the title: “cooking the books for the White House”. The ad questions whether Petraeus is slanting the facts on behalf of the Bush Administration.
Nowhere in the ad does it say Petraeus is a traitor to his country.
Nowhere in the ad does it criticize the US military.
Nowhere in the ad does it criticize or bash the troops. Instead, it shows concern for the troops and the death toll among them.
But apparently you would rather hallucinate about what the ad says without knowing what it says. Apparently, you don’t want to address the issue of the ad, as to whether Petraeus is bending the truth with questionable statistics. Apparently, you just want to focus on two words in isolation. Why don’t you pick up a dictionary and go through any random words like traitor or betrayal and then accuse Merriam-Webster of bashing the troops?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:06 pmMe neither, Buck and TripMaster! When they gain no ground here, they’ll move on. With the new registration, the administrators will know when they are attempting to enter with a new moniker. It’s put an end to the name jacking by this troll, too.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:07 pm#11 You’re absolutely correct. Bush and his group of Pervert Lackies are trying to read things into this. They can’t get any attention for anything good they are doing because they aren’t successful at anything but evil lies, stealing and corruption.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:08 pmAnd I don’t think he’s a male prostitute at all.
Comment by raynman — September 21, 2007 @ 11:33 am
And this opinion is based on what proof?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:09 pmBush and his wingnuts are no doubt overjoyed by the MoveOn ad, as it gives them something on the left to demonize. They might even blame all of the failure in Iraq on that ad — much as the right blamed our failure in Vietnam all on Jane Fonda.
Look for this ad to be inflated into the biggest boogeyman possible.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:10 pmComment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — September 21, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
The use of the question mark in the heading tells me that the ad asked the question, didn’t make a definitive statement. The hoopla over the whole thing is just being blown out of proportion because the pubs got nuthin’ else. I mean, we wouldn’t want to focus on the General’s “I don’t know” answer, would we?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:12 pmCorporate owned press always conspires with the Bush Regime.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:12 pmSoon the GOP’s numbers will be in the teens or very low 20’s.
Comment by Veritas — September 21, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Well, GOOPers certainly behave as though they were still in their low teens, so I guess that’s appropriate.
Hmmm… what age was Vitter trying to be? Diapers??? Perhaps we could ask someone who comes here to be annoying. I t is said this individual has much first-hand experience w/ adult diapers.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:12 pmMoveOn and Democratic leadership flop in their effort to smear Gen. Petraeus. He now enjoys a 61% approval rating:
September 19, 2007
Gen. David Petraeus Better Known, Better Liked After Last Week
Sixty-one percent of Americans rate the general favorably in new poll
by Joseph Carroll GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
PRINCETON, NJ — A new Gallup Poll suggests that last week’s intense schedule of congressional testimony and media appearances by the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, enhanced his image among Americans. Not only did Petraeus’ name identification increase significantly in a matter of just a week, but his image also became more favorable than it was just before the week’s activities. This occurred in a contentious environment that included the publication of a full-page ad in the New York Times criticizing Petraeus, and much commentary on the truthfulness and accuracy of his testimony …
According to the Sept. 14-16, 2007 poll, 61% of Americans have a favorable opinion of Petraeus, while 22% have an unfavorable opinion and 18% are not familiar enough with the general to rate him.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:13 pmmuch as the right blamed our failure in Vietnam…
Comment by missmolly — September 21, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
What??? Are you saying moveon.org is responsible for losing the Vietnam War too? WOW!!! Excuse me… I need to call Matt Drudge w/ this sizzlin’ hot news flash! We’re talking HEADLINE NEWS here!
September 21st, 2007 at 12:15 pmI want to know what the president and the Dem leaders of congress think about horrid statements bashing our troops.
Comment by Roger_Roger Debate Dodger — September 21, 2007 @ 11:52 am
You know, Roger deux, there comes a time in every young adult’s life where they are asked to “Put Up, or Shut Up!”. This is almost as a passage to adulthood.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:17 pmWell, this is your time!
Put Up, or Shut Up!
Show us exactly the horrid statements that were made bashing our troops in the MoveOn.org ad.
Quote ver batim, si’l vous plais, and not what you feel!
My money’s on you SHUTTING UP! Or totally ignoring my request, just like Jake, the Catholic Baptist.
If someone cannot return the basic courtesy of answering my questions why continue debating with said someone?
Comment by Jake D.Fake — September 21, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
I couldn’t have said it better, my faux friend. Couldn’t have said it better.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:20 pm#51 – Thanks for the link. Pretty much describes the situation. Those that aren’t swooning with mock outrage are cackling with glee as they try to score empty, hollow political points – while our soldiers continue to die and Al Quaida roams unopposed.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:20 pmAccording to the Sept. 14-16, 2007 poll, 61% of Americans have a favorable opinion of Petraeus, while 22% have an unfavorable opinion and 18% are not familiar enough with the general to rate him.
Comment by Exley — September 21, 2007 @ 12:13 pm
And yet the vast majority of us STILL dislike Bush intensely, and STILL want American troops out of Iraq. Go figure!
September 21st, 2007 at 12:21 pmJake D. sez:
That’s a lie, Shakey, and I’m going to call you on it each and every time you try to pass it off.
Must I post the proof yet again? Just say the word.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:22 pmWay to distract everyone with an advertisement.
So anyways… let’s go back to talking about how we’re going to… you know… end the Iraq war.
~Sean
September 21st, 2007 at 12:22 pm?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:22 pmso, is the “examiner” a step up or down,
from the moony times?
.
Hmmm… what age was Vitter trying to be? Diapers??? Perhaps we could ask someone who comes here to be annoying. I t is said this individual has much first-hand experience w/ adult diapers.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 21, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
That Republican US Attorney that got arrested for going after a 5-yr-old was into diapers, too. I think it goes a long way toward explaining the infantile behavior we see the in the GOP.
“Online, though, Atchison, 53, was living a secret life as “daddy” who wanted to fulfill fantasies of changing diapers and taking care of little girls….On one message board, a woman describes being in “LG [little girl] mode” when “wearing wet or poopy pants never worries me and I’m quite happy to wait until Daddy is ready to change me.”
Atchison replied as “fldaddy04, “[T]hat’s exactly what I like in a little girl.”"
September 21st, 2007 at 12:23 pm“… Democratic leadership flop…”
WTF are you talking about, you stone idiot?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:23 pmWhat I find ironic is just prior to the vote on the Corynyn Amendment (the resolution Condemning the MoveOn.org ad – 72 aye/25 nay) was a vote on the Boxer Amendment, which failed with a vote of 50 yea, 47 nay.
The Cornyn Amendment wording: Cornyn Amdt. No. 2934; To express the sense of the Senate that General David H. Petraeus, Commanding General, Multi-National Force-Iraq, deserves the full support of the Senate and strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces.
The Boxer Amendment wording: Boxer Amdt. No. 2947; To reaffirm strong support for all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces and to strongly condemn attacks on the honor, integrity, and patriotism of any individual who is serving or has served honorably in the United States Armed Forces, by any person or organization.
So the repubs DON’T affirm their stong support for all the men and women of the United States Armed Forces (including Petraeus) and DON’T strongly condemn the attacks on the honor, integrity, and patriotism of any individual who is serving or has served honorably in the United States Armed Forces, by any person or organization, but DO affirm that Petraeus deserves the full support of the Senate and DO strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus and all members of the United States Armed Forces.
“Huh” – Scooby Do
September 21st, 2007 at 12:23 pmDid someone hear a high-pitched squeaking noise in here?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:26 pmDRxJ we refer to him as it now…don’t even type it’s name.
Ignore the it
Buck Fush
September 21st, 2007 at 12:27 pmAccording to the Sept. 14-16, 2007 poll, 61% of Americans have a favorable opinion of Petraeus, while 22% have an unfavorable opinion and 18% are not familiar enough with the general to rate him.
Comment by Exley
And +/- 33% of Americans STILL think that saddam was behind the WTC attacks. 25% of Americans STILL think Bush is doing a good job. +/- 13% of Americans believe the tooth fairy exists. So Ex, what is your point? The bush spin machine takes advantage of an uneducated and dis interested population – and you – to keep the illusion going. Statistics won’t win the war and statistics won’t save your worship of Bush. Ex, there are always gonna be mouth breathers who don’t take the time or effort to discover the truth. It is too easy for them to tune to faux news and just get today’s talking points – like you do.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:28 pmHow soon Bush forgets trashing Kerry and Cleland. Both of whom showed up for the dance in Vietnam while Bush was flying missions over Houston. Daddy got Georgie into the guard, which in those days was a good hideout from the draft. Much worse in my opinion, Bush found some Vietnam vets who were willing to slander their brother war vets for political gain. Obviously, we’re not talking about that just the “disgusting” ad generated by MoveOn. Bush has trashed-up the dialogue so bad in this country it will be impossible to trust anything whatsoever that comes out of the government agencies, the congress, and especially the whitehouse.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:29 pmI’m sorry, but there’s something wrong with a so called reporter who let’s his political idealogy effect his reporting. Mr. Sammon isn’t a reporter all at, he’s a political pondit who favors the republican party and trys to influence it with his writtings. He forgot what he was taught in journalism school if he attended. People like him, Tony Snow, Britt Hume, and the other so called reporters at Fox News are all frauds and they should admit it.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:30 pmBush has trashed-up the dialogue so bad in this country it will be impossible to trust anything whatsoever that comes out of the government agencies, the congress, and especially the whitehouse.
Comment by williamf — September 21, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
Ah yes, the GOOPer secret master plan all along. See? Govt doesn’t work! So much better to trust Walmart and Blackwater…
September 21st, 2007 at 12:32 pmDid Conservative Reporter Conspire With Bush On Question Bashing Democrats?
Of course he did. Everything Bush does is orchestrated. Did you notice that David Gregory now has a front row seat? That was his reward for becoming a Bush Poodle. Gregory really disappointed me. He was once a hard-hitting reporter, now he is just another Bush sycophant.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:32 pmthey should admit it.
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Comment by The Shadow — September 21, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
To “admit it”, they’d first have to “understand it”.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:33 pmExley sez:
First of all,
61% + 22% + 18% = 101%
Second,
Despite what this administration may desire, reality is still not determined by popular consensus.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:33 pmThere it is again… kind of a high-pitched chattering noise… like a marmoset having a hissyfit.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:34 pmSo Bush now wants to be dominated in bed by a 6′7″ tall guy? Dubya must like long polls if you get my drift > lol.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pmmuch as the right blamed our failure in Vietnam…
Comment by missmolly — September 21, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
What??? Are you saying moveon.org is responsible for losing the Vietnam War too? WOW!!! Excuse me… I need to call Matt Drudge w/ this sizzlin’ hot news flash! We’re talking HEADLINE NEWS here!
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 21, 2007 @ 12:15 pm
LOL — I think your take on this is funnier. I was just making a reference to the demonization of a movie actress (who traveled to Vietnam and made a few dumb comments while there) as a traitor who cost us the war (as if she had that kind of power), and comparing it to the demonization of a political action group today.
But since MoveOn is the boogeyman du jour, let’s blame it for Vietnam, the Great Depression, Watergate, the quiz show scandals of the 1950’s, Katrina, Sputnik beating us in the space race, the designated hitter rule in baseball, and New Coke. Some wingnuts will no doubt actually believe this.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:36 pm#94 – Most likely it is nothing.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:36 pmThese are the actual titles of Bill Sammon’s four published books:
At Any Cost: How Al Gore Tried to Steal the Election
Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism from Inside the White House
Misunderestimated: The President Battles Terrorism, Media Bias and the Bush Haters
Strategery: How George W. Bush Is Defeating Terrorists, Outwitting Democrats, and Confounding the Mainstream Media
September 21st, 2007 at 12:37 pmThese rightwing people slay me, they say democrats are afraid of the left wing. Apparently they forget how afraid the republicans are of the right wing. People like Rush Limbaugh who use hate speech as a way to divide people and keep republican politicians in line. There is no way they would ever ever ever say anything negative about Rush, Fox News, the so called religious right, Pat Robertson, etc, etc. It’s not even funny, I criticise the weak democrats at every opportunity, and I’m as blue as they get. But I’m not a hypocrit who only uses talking points written by some pencil neck idiot at a party office. Unlike my friend on the right, I can think for myself.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:37 pm61% + 22% + 18% = 101%
I think we can blame this one on rounding errors…
Despite what this administration may desire, reality is still not determined by popular consensus.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmComment by TripMaster Monkey — September 21, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Unless the consensus is set against them, in which case it’s all about who’s the “Decider“.
From Sammon’s wiki: Bill lives in Maryland with his wife Becky and their five children, Brittany, Brooke, Ben, Billy and Blair.
How adorable!
September 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmYOu don’t think it is an important question? I want to know what the president and the Dem leaders of congress think about horrid statements bashing our troops. roger_roger
Show me where anyone made “horrid statements bashing the troops”. moveon.org was not bashing our troops, they were bashing Betrayus whose political ambitions have caused him to turn his back on the military in favor of becoming a Bush sycophant. If anyone is “bashing” the troops it is Betrayus with his cooking the books on the violence in Iraq to cause our troops to have to stay in the middle of an Occupation and a civil war.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmIn other words, he writes fiction.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pmAnd more than a little creepy…
September 21st, 2007 at 12:41 pmTP is distorting reality again. Look at that headline! “conservative reporter . . . ” He’s not a reporter. He’s not a journalist. He’s a propagandist and not a particularly good one, either.
“conservative shill” would be more accurate.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:46 pmTP is distorting reality again. Look at that headline! “conservative reporter . . . †He’s not a reporter. He’s not a journalist. He’s a propagandist and not a particularly good one, either.
“conservative shill†would be more accurate.
Comment by gummitch
______________________
And he’s a super stretcher, according to George Bush.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:48 pmThere’s that squeaking sound again. Did no one remember the d-Con?
September 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pmBush’s naievete never ceases to amaze with the transparency of his actions and stupdity. He allows himself to be manipulated and play right into the hands of his detractors by making the wrong choices. Holding a press conference to dis a group of “law abiding citizens” is stooping so low that an ant could crawl under him with a top hat on!
What he effectively does with each mistake he makes is to make a further fool of himself publicly and show the people what a buffoon he actually is – it also illustrates the fact that he never had a clue about the decorum and respect associated with the Presidency. He doesn’t realize that when he decides to pick on a group of american citizens who are outing him, he doubly indicts himself by becoming “our enemy within” as well as politicizing the office he holds.
After 6 dreary long years, Bush still doesn’t have a clue. You’d think some savvy, intelligent “handler” would step forward and help this floudering executive by telling him the truth about himself. I guess that’s not part of their job description though- the only thing in it is that they must be “adoring, a$$-licking sycophants” and they’re hired.
Bush’s PR image after taking the time to personally attack a group of american citizens who are acting like a watchdog and calling him on his criminal activities is destroying his image nationally & internationally as a “lightweight or pantyweight” as well as raising the level of interest overall in MoveOn.org.
I’d venture to guess that their numbers and contributions have doubled since Bush’s faux pas press conference.
How much longer are the people going to permit this dictator to embarrass himself publicly before he is impeached??
September 21st, 2007 at 12:49 pmThe General was doing what Generals and Soldiers do, he was obeying his commanding officer. He told Congress what his commanding officer wanted him to tell them.
That’s not exactly betraying your country because he was OBEYING ORDERS – doesn’t mean he BELIEVED what he was saying.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:50 pmFrom Sammon’s wiki: Bill lives in Maryland with his wife Becky and their five children, Brittany, Brooke, Ben, Billy and Blair.
How adorable!
Comment by Candyce
and the (Sammons) pets:
September 21st, 2007 at 12:50 pmBakey, the pussycat, Broily the bassett hound, and Barbeque the iguana
Who was the wise old sage who said this: “We are judged by the company we keep”?? Truer words were never spoken and Bush’s house of cards is tumbling down, individual by individual.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pmI would like to see anyone on the republican side to address the content of the ad.
Comment by hellinabucket — September 21, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Hey Hell,
Petraeus said it was his report, not anyone elses. You can either believe it or not. Bush wants to “win” in Iraq, obviously the commanding general wants to win, too. So it is hardly surprising if their attitudes toward the war agree. It is also not surprising Petraeus would present statistics that show his plan in a favorable light. You can question the quality of his assessment without questioning his loyalty to his country – and anyone who says “they didn’t accuse him of betrayal because there was a question mark after ‘Betrayus’ ” is being intellectually dishonest.
MoveOn’s greatest sin on this one is rank stupidity. They gave the Republicans a lifeboat to jump into with the crassness of their attack.
Many folks on this list are often deriding supporters of the war as chickenhawks, but when you get a guy who has served 35 years in the military that disagrees with your view of the war he is still shot down.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pm#111 Billy Boy’s also an alliterative junkie!
September 21st, 2007 at 12:52 pmKeotoi: Let’s get real for just a moment here. EVERYONE knew that when Bush’s was trolling for a “fall guy” for this debacle called Iraq, no one wanted the job. He finally found a true sycophant because anyone with a shred of personal integrity being asked to stump for this war, cook the books, and lies his military a$$ off for a paycheck deserves zero respect.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:54 pmKeltoi: As Olberman said so aptly: General Petrayeas “betrayed himself”. That’s what happens when one sells his soul to the devil for a paycheck. Just ask Colin Powell how he’s feeling these days….dark, grimy and evil, that’s how.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:55 pmNice try at intellectual discourse, but “beep” and thanks for playing. One piss-soaked troll down/ one more to go.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:55 pmAnother thing I’ve noticed: Trolls not only are sub-par intellectually but they can’t type for beans as well. HOW LONG does it take a troll to type something legible?????
September 21st, 2007 at 12:56 pmHellinabucket: You won’t get your wish because in order to address the questions within the ad, they would indict themselves….hahahah!
September 21st, 2007 at 12:57 pmDemocrat Party? Never heard of it. I guess it must exist in a foreign country with the Republic Party.
September 21st, 2007 at 12:59 pm.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:04 pmWe could really use Sammon on our slow pitch team.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:10 pmSorry everyone, in order to see comments I have to post, dunno why, so every now and then I may “ping” just to make the comments pop up.
Veritas:
He finally found a true sycophant because anyone with a shred of personal integrity being asked to stump for this war, cook the books, and lies his military a$$ off for a paycheck deserves zero respect.
Comment by Veritas — September 21, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
This is merely an ad hominem attack on Petraeus. Petraeus WROTE the current counter-insurgency manual, and we are fighting an insurgency. If his only qualification is sychophancy, why did the Senate confirm him 98-0?
>>As Olberman said so aptly: General Petrayeas “betrayed himselfâ€. That’s what happens when one sells his soul to the devil for a paycheck. Just ask Colin Powell how he’s feeling these days….dark, grimy and evil, that’s how.
Comment by Veritas — September 21, 2007 @ 12:54 pm
Olberman is the master of the ad hominem attack. His credentials on military strategy or international security are nil. He is a failed sportscaster with a far left attitude, I attach little import to his opinions.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:11 pmTruth be told if the democrats don’t start showing a little more outrage and stop playing into the republicans hands at every turn, it will be time to abandon both parties and move on toward a real democracy by voting for a third party candidate who isn’t owned by large corporate donations . Wake up folks the 2 party system is rigged , just a case of good cop bad cop !
September 21st, 2007 at 1:12 pmWho thinks Hillary will save us ?How many years of bushes and clintons can we endure ,and still remain a viable democracy . Where is the outrage from our elected representatives, when the loss of habeas corpus , signing statements and domestic spying ,renders our constitution, which generations of Americans have fought and died for ,is tossed aside by people who were probably never legitimately elected in the first place !
We need to run a new candidate ,perhaps entirely from the internet ,without corporate funding, against this dog and pony show we call the 2 party system ,before net neutrality is gone .
There has never been a bigger coward in the White House than George Bush. Protected all of his life, and still protected, from the truth, his own shortcomings, and his betters, especially those that will speak the truth aobut his incompetence and lack of reason, he is a panty-waist first-class, a jock-sniffing crybaby, a cheerleader and deserter in wartime. Anybody with an ounce of respect for this fool is a bigger fool, especially given his miserable record of election-stealing, failure on 9/11, and the rest of the long list of embarrassments and total weaknesses he show. He’s a f*cking bum, rich white trash, a worthless zero. who cares what he says? China doesn’t, Venezuela doesn’t, Iraq doesn’t, Iran doesn’t, I don’t; nobody who cares about this country cares about Bush.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:18 pmWell said, freeman, well said.
3 is an interesting number, to say the least.
A 2 party system doesn’t provide any balance. We need a 3rd ‘leg’ to achieve balance / stability.
To date, it’s been somewhat of a wasted vote to go with a 3rd party.
Thanks to the biggest f*ck up in our history, Bush is actually causing many voters to look for a 3rd option.
I know I am.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:20 pmKeltoi,
September 21st, 2007 at 1:21 pmShow me anywhere in the ad that said Petraeus was a traitor to his country. You can’t point to anything, other than the words “Betray Us” lifted in isolation from the actual text of the ad. In fact, the words “traitor” which the loons on the right have attributed to this ad as its message about Petraeus are never written. The ad clearly is focused on the fact that Petraeus would betray the truth in how he would present the progress on the war to the Congress. We aren’t allowed to criticize Generals now and how they report on the progress of the war? For that’s all this ad by Move On does. But if you wish to fixate only on the words “Betray Us” without reference to any context, why don’t you get out your Merriam-Webster dictionary and find the words “betray” and “us” in it and then accuse Merriam Webster of bashing the troops?
Olberman is the master of the ad hominem attack. His credentials on military strategy or international security are nil. He is a failed sportscaster with a far left attitude, I attach little import to his opinions.
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Comment by Keltoi — September 21, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Funny, he’s a successful broadcaster with a large following, and a real sense of patriotism, unlike Bush and Betrayus. It’s no wonder you attach little import to his opinions; they’re over your head. The Senate has failed the American people on countless occasions over the past 7 years, and are in collusion with the corporate rapists that are destroying your country, and you are too blind and stupid to see it. Bush has reached rock bottom with Betrayus, and nobody should trust either one of them. I attach little import to their opinions, or yours, you poor, misguided tool.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:22 pmping….
September 21st, 2007 at 1:23 pmThe power has always been with the people ,who must claim their birthright by becoming autonomous and throw off the vampires who have been bleeding us for centuries ,for their own self interests.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:23 pmThe birth of a new man and not representative (?) government is the only real hope for freedom and democracy and I believe for our continued survival as a species into the future .
Stop being obedient ,the greatest gift we have is our own free will .The 2 party system must be replaced ,the democrats have no right to take our votes for granted ! Lets mount a real challange to business as usual in washington.
Bush was taxied to a landing on the Lincoln, after kidnapping the hard-working Navy personnel to get his photo op. There is no courage needed to take a ride in the back seat of a navy jet piloted by a real airman. rightards are afraid of everything, that’s why it may seem like a courageous act, but it’s just an act. ush is just an act, and a poor one at that.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:26 pmI read the MoveOn ad as being a statement about the betrayal of the USA and its service members, and I agree 100%. Petraeus is a cheap, beribboned whore.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:27 pmStop following the pope , the pastor and the party . Take control of your own lives ! You vote every time you buy gas or slave made products at wallmart !
September 21st, 2007 at 1:29 pm“Self be your guide
self be your leader
do not look for any other leader ”
Gautama buddha
Petraeus said it was his report, not anyone elses. You can either believe it or not. Bush wants to “win†in Iraq, obviously the commanding general wants to win, too. Keltoi
Please describe what a “win” would be in Iraq. You can’t “win” occupying a country against their will so exactly what will a “win” be in Iraq?
September 21st, 2007 at 1:29 pmSomehow, ‘it’ appears to think ‘it’ is now this site’s monitor.
Typical. Move into where you’re not wanted & then pretend to be boss.
Bush’it’
September 21st, 2007 at 1:30 pmI thought the ad said “Betray US†(as in America) not “Betray the truth� You don’t have to use the word “TREASON†to know that is exactly what MoveOn.org meant to convey.
Comment by Jake D.
____________________
Yes, it is betraying the American people to cook the books and betray the truth. And Petraeus’ betrayal of the truth was even suggested by several Republican Senators who questioned him. The words immediately following the word “Betray Us” and which explain them are: “cooking the books for the White House”. Move On accused Petraeus of cooking the books. It didn’t mention treason or Petraeus being a traitor. Only in the mind of a right wing loon would that be projected as such. And it would be to make a political score and not actually address the content of the ad.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:32 pmIts your choice ,global corporate dictatorship or REAL democracy !
September 21st, 2007 at 1:34 pmThe democrats are an owned commodity or they would have been for all practical purposes compliant to the will of the neo cons .Hell they even gave W more powers to spy on the citizenry then he had asked for !
If the purpose of life is to keep your head down and shop, then we have already arrived in the promised land .
Why is the Moveon ad still news?
Dont you spineless cons hve any REAL issues to talk about?
Ohhh! All you have is cheerleading an EXTREMELY unpopular war, talking tax cuts during wartimes and during the worst debt in human history.
I guess if you cons didnt have nonsense to whine about, you’d have to defend yourselves.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:34 pmKeltoi,
>>Show me anywhere in the ad that said Petraeus was a traitor to his country. You can’t point to anything, other than the words “Betray Us†lifted in isolation from the actual text of the ad.
“General Betray Us” are in block letters several inches tall. If you do not think this add denigrates the mans integrity…fine.
>>The ad clearly is focused on the fact that Petraeus would betray the truth in how he would present the progress on the war to the Congress.
How is this a fact?
>>We aren’t allowed to criticize Generals now and how they report on the progress of the war? For that’s all this ad by Move On does.
Of course you are. But MoveOn is not allowed to get a 66% discount from the NYT, and I suspect there will be a soft money investigation into this.
>>But if you wish to fixate only on the words “Betray Us†without reference to any context, why don’t you get out your Merriam-Webster dictionary and find the words “betray†and “us†in it and then accuse Merriam Webster of bashing the troops?
Comment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — September 21, 2007 @ 1:21
Whhaaaa?
>>Funny, he’s a successful broadcaster with a large following
In that case I guess you find Bill O’Reilly’s opinions valid as well – about 5 times as valid, since his viewership is at least 5 times Olbermans.
>>It’s no wonder you attach little import to his opinions; they’re over your head….and you are too blind and stupid to see it…..Betrayus…. you poor, misguided tool.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — September 21, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
Your resort to personal insult excuses you from serious discussion. I love debate but name calling is childish. MoveOn and Olberman would do better with the American public if they realized this.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:34 pmFor the record, anybody who defends Bush or Petraeus is a traitor.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:36 pmMany folks on this list are often deriding supporters of the war as chickenhawks, but when you get a guy who has served 35 years in the military that disagrees with your view of the war he is still shot down.
Comment by Keltoi
Anyone who stands before the nation and lies (mostly lies of omission by “cooking the books” on the numbers) will be derided by me, no matter what their political affiliation is. Betrayus has often told others of his political ambitions. Betrayus interjected his personal views into the 2004 Presidential Campaign (which is a big no-no for the military) and now he has become a Bush sycophant. Betrayus would rather do what he thinks he needs to do to advance his political career than to do what is right for his troops. Betrayus is the one who doesn’t support the troops. Betrayus is the one who is bashing his troops by not supporting them through making sure they have enough rest, training and equipment. Betrayus is a traitor to his country like the rest of the Bush Crime Family.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:36 pmActually Olbermann has the fastest growing ratings on cable. FOX is shrinking. Olbermann beats OReilly in the 25-54 segment. The MONEY segment.
Cons hate reality!
September 21st, 2007 at 1:38 pmYour resort to personal insult excuses you from serious discussion. I love debate but name calling is childish. MoveOn and Olberman would do better with the American public if they realized this.
Comment by Keltoi — September 21, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
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Pretty good from somebody who’s major strength is lying and defending liars. You have no case, and you have no patriotism. Go on over to LGF, where you will be comfortably joined by other brainless sychophants whose understanding of the Contitution and America ideals is similarly nonexistent. Olberman is a journalist, O’Reilly is a pervert, a liar and a nutcase. Now I see your attraction to him.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:39 pmI thought the ad said “Betray US†(as in America) not “Betray the truth� You don’t have to use the word “TREASON†to know that is exactly what MoveOn.org meant to convey.
Comment by Jake D.
They are 100% correct. He has betrayed this country (therefore committing treason) and he has betrayed his troops. He is a sad excuse for a human being since he has put his political ambitions ahead of doing what is right for the country and what is right for his troops. Anyone who thinks he is doing what is right for the troops by keeping them in the hellhole that is Iraq indefinitely, with no end in sight, has a few screws loose.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:40 pmIs Lefty Patriot a new Van Halen song???
September 21st, 2007 at 1:41 pmFor those who care about words and their meanings (I’m obviously not talking about the new face of the Republican party and their love of Orwellian speech), the word “treason” implies sedition, the violation of allegiance to one’s country, or the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government or to harm or kill its sovereign. Nothing in the Move On ad suggested that Petraeus had even come close to engaging in seditious or treasonous behavior. It merely suggested he might slant the truth when he appeared before Congress, as he had done in the past. The Move On ad backed its words with a specific reference to a newspaper article written by Petraeus in 2004, on the eve of the Presidential election, in which he supported Bush’s policy, injected himself into a political election, and claimed that the war in Iraq was successful (which even war supporters now admit it wasn’t at the time). But of course none of the right wing loons care to discuss the specific points in the ad but instead was to fixate on two words in isolation.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:43 pmLets run our own presidential candidate without corporate money unless the democrats show more spine IMMEDIATELY. To hell with all the political posturing .Thre survival of some representatives political life is far less important than our survival as a nation and a democracy .
September 21st, 2007 at 1:44 pmThe democrats ,with remarkably few exceptions ,are a national and historical embarrassment ,reminiscent of the early days of Hitler ,before the last world war ,in the Weimar republic !
DEMOCRACY NOW !
Please describe what a “win†would be in Iraq. You can’t “win†occupying a country against their will so exactly what will a “win†be in Iraq?
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 21, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
I have, elsewhere, on other threads.
Shorthand:
1. Security commiserate with other Middle East countries; totally eliminating terrorism is impossible in that region at present.
2. Some form of Federal Democracy that recognizes basic human rights.
3. AQ largely routed out.
4. Iran’s influence held to a minimum
Were these goals to be met, I would call it a “win” for the US. I think these goals are attainable. How long it will take is impossible to know. I do believe leaving immediately would create a much bigger problem, one that we would in all likelihood have to deal with further down the line from a much weaker position.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:44 pmHow can you have “Security commiserate with other Middle East countries; totally eliminating terrorism” when the sources of terrorism in Iraq have been fighting for 1400 years? Yeah, throw some American money and lives at it and hope it gets better!
AQ is only 4-6% of the insurgency. Try again please!
September 21st, 2007 at 1:48 pm1. Security commiserate with other Middle East countries; totally eliminating terrorism is impossible in that region at present.
Like it was before Bush started waving his little dick around. Got it.
2. Some form of Federal Democracy that recognizes basic human rights.
By murdering families in their beds, and opening the country to terrorism. Sure.
3. AQ largely routed out.
See #1.
4. Iran’s influence held to a minimum
Not your business, never was, and every time whitey interferes, it just gets worse. Iran was moving very nicely towards a democracy until the Bush Disaster In The Desert.
F, as in Failure, as in Republican. Wear it proudly.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pmIt is going to be interesting to find out how much donations to moveon.org go up because of the right throwing a hissy fit. I went there last night and donated $50. I have always supported what they are doing in spirit, now I am supporting them financially. I want to see them run more ads like the one they ran about Betrayus. I might even set myself up for a monthly donation. Can’t think of a better cause.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:50 pmFor the record, anybody who defends Bush or Petraeus is a traitor…. somebody who’s major strength is lying and defending liars. You have no case, and you have no patriotism…..brainless sychophants …. a pervert, a liar and a nutcase.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — September 21, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Bye-bye, Lefty, it has been illuminating.
Reasonable libs, I enjoy batting around the issues with you, I assume you too do not approve of personal attacks but are reluctant to criticize one of your own as you do Jake, RR and the other few conservatives who come to debate with you.
September 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pmWere these goals to be met, I would call it a “win†for the US. I think these goals are attainable. How long it will take is impossible to know. I do believe leaving immediately would create a much bigger problem, one that we would in all likelihood have to deal with further down the line from a much weaker position.
Comment by Keltoi
So tell me, why should we even be in a position for what you call a “win” in Iraq. What business is it of ours how they want to run their country? And who cares what you believe. The people in Iraq believe (by 71%) that they would be better off without us occupying their country. What right do we have to dictate to them what their future looks like. What right do we have to ignore the will of the people in Iraq?
September 21st, 2007 at 1:54 pmIt’s about the oil ….Allan Greenspan
September 21st, 2007 at 2:01 pmOur corporate overlords could care less about the will of the Iraqi people OR the people of the United states .They didn’t cause the deaths of 3/4 of a million people to give the country and it’s oil back to the Iraqi people and they could care less about democracy and as evidence I offer the transparent gutting of the US constitution .
The congress has had every opportunity to pass real campagn finance reform and has failed miserably ! Till the AMerican people throw the corporations out of our political lives we will continue to be faced with no more than a charade of a representative government !
September 21st, 2007 at 2:06 pmgo cry somewhere else, keltoi. you’re ignorance and thoughtlessness has weakened my country. We have no need of your kind.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:12 pmLets step on the toes of the status quo and disavow anyone who continues to support the destruction of the constitution by running our own candidates !
September 21st, 2007 at 2:18 pmDemocrats who show no inclination toward a real fight , breaking early to go on vacation ,as in the domestic spying bill they passed ,should be opposed by the left ,not chosen as the lesser of 2 evils . Lets grow some teeth of our own before we end up in a third world war in a state that disappears political dissenters and convicts them outside our laws with secret evidence !
If the democrats still take this administration at there word, then they no longer have the cover of pleading ignorance and can be seen in the light of reality as condoning and abetting the greatest wholesale attack on our basic rights and constitutional government in our history as a nation !
Detroitsuperfly, I said you CAN’T totally eliminate terrorism, not that that was a victroy condition.
So tell me, why should we even be in a position for what you call a “win†in Iraq. What business is it of ours how they want to run their country? And who cares what you believe. The people in Iraq believe (by 71%) that they would be better off without us occupying their country. What right do we have to dictate to them what their future looks like. What right do we have to ignore the will of the people in Iraq?
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 21, 2007 @ 1:54 pm
What right did Saddam have to ignore their will, rape and murder them? They approved the most liberal constitution in the region under our occupation.
I believe they want us out of there – I want us out of there, too. But from the polls I have seen, they don’t want us to leave “too soon”. What right did we have to dictate to Germany it become a democracy? They never attacked us.
But, it is almost beside the point. We clearly WILL be there at least another year at current troop strength……
September 21st, 2007 at 2:26 pmThe US and Europe knew who Saddam was before they supported him and funded a war against Iran which took the lives of a million people .
September 21st, 2007 at 2:41 pmAny comparison between Saddam and Nazi Germany is absurd ,and I won’t even bother with an explanation .Iraq had nothing to do with 911 and this war (?) has everything to do with control of world oil supplies as the neo cons broadcast years before 911 occurred . That is an indisputable fact and coincidentally a War Crime !
The United States has overthrown or destabilized democracies it didn’t like during the cold war all over the globe ,but the terrorist hate us because we’re good and free and not because we ,following the tradition pioneered by Europeans colonialism have been meddling in their affairs, assassinating their leaders and destabilizing their lives for our own political purposes for a half a century .
September 21st, 2007 at 2:47 pmKeltoi, Germany declared war on us. Look it up. Also, using your logic we should be attacking N. Korea. They are tortured, have no voice in their govt., are run by a mad man and their country is in shambles.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:51 pmThe media was always in the past the ‘watchdog’ that checks the government behavior,and performance.
September 21st, 2007 at 2:51 pmNot any more, the media now is in bed with the government..just look at television networks,the articles in major newspapers published daily. The government has no more fear of the press….but the government now has fears of computers and the web..The govenment has fear of organization like Moveon and others….These organizations have public support,sympathy and also have public’s backing. That’s why moveone was the target.
These so called journalists like Bill Sammon who is in bed with the government and a regular guest on Fox network was left to ask the last question to Bush.While Bill Sammon supposed to question Bush,he in fact played to help him.
ping
September 21st, 2007 at 2:53 pmArizona shmooze
September 21st, 2007 at 2:54 pmTry a cold and internationally known fact !
Read the writings of the project for a new amerikan century, which all the major players in Bushes cabinet are signatories ,and then get back to me .
Try reading allan greenspans take on our involvement in Iraq or the 911 commisions report on Iraqi involvement in 911 .
Try thinking .
you don’t get out much ,do you Bud .
September 21st, 2007 at 2:56 pmJapan’s attack and occupation of China was about resources , Germany’s attack on it’s neighbors was about resources .The civil war was not fought to end slavery , but about control of resources .
September 21st, 2007 at 3:00 pmThe US attack on Iraq was not about 911 or al qaeda .
Lets step on the toes of the status quo and disavow anyone who continues to support the destruction of the constitution by running our own candidates !
That’s what I have been saying for a long time. I would love to see Russ Feingold start a new political party called the “Progressive Party”. I would be the first in line to sign up.
Unfortunately because of our entrenched two party system, all that would do is to split the Democratic and Independent votes and allow the Republics to win again.
Even better, how about we scrap our “party” system and go for a Parliamentary System. It was good enough for Iraq, so it should be good enough for us. Wouldn’t you just love to hold a “no confidence” vote on Bush & Company.?
September 21st, 2007 at 3:00 pmWhat right did Saddam have to ignore their will, rape and murder them? They approved the most liberal constitution in the region under our occupation.
Saddam didn’t have the right and neither do we. When are you neoCONs every going to get it that two wrongs DON’t make a right.
As to their “liberal constitution”, look at how much good it is doing them. They have no government.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:02 pmBut as Allan Greenspan said in his book ,what we all know already except for you ,that the Iraq war was all about oil !
September 21st, 2007 at 3:05 pm” But barring a national catastrophy it will be hard to galvanize the American people behind such a scheme “.
from the project for the American century
look it up !
TP Technical problem: Seems like hitting the “Refresh†button does not let you see the latest comments. Doesn’t update the page. The only way to see what has been posted since the last posting is to input a message yourself…..(Which is what I doing right now!)
September 21st, 2007 at 3:06 pmNoon here on the west coast, just finished reading all the post’s on this site, I’m a little slow and running the Bear wear’s me out…
I must say reading all your post’s are pure delight…Sending a big Bravo and Thank you to all the great scrapper’s..Bilbo, Freeman, Veritas, lefty patriot and other’s I missed….You make this old woman proud and I agree with your good post’s…Keep up the good work, keep posting….Blessings to you all.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:08 pm#73, The Movead suggested that one of our troops is betraying us. They provided no proof, thus is was simply character assassination against a troop serving me, you, and even moveon.org. I cannot think of something more disrespectful then slandering troops that are fighting for our freedoms (and fighting terrorists hoping to give the poor people of Iraq a chance at a better life).
I hope that answers your question sir.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:10 pmAny other takers ?
September 21st, 2007 at 3:14 pmHow about a progressive party candidate run entirely by individual donations and though the internet without the approval of the corporate government or the MSM .We have aroused the ire of the powerful in the blogosphere because we have been responsible for rocking the boast so successfully .Why not tip the boat over ,the American people were thrown overboard years ago !The internet is tilting the playing field back away from corporate ownership into the hands of the people and they know it .Just look how hard they are trying to discredit us !
Roger Roger Debate Dodger,
1st, let me say thank you for Putting Up, instead of hiding, or ignoring, like a certain paranoid “it”.
2nd, what a crock of patooey!
The ad never said the “troops” were betraying us.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:19 pmIt was a particular word play on General Patraeus, showing their concern of a General who “crossed the line” of military and politics (see Kieth Olbermann), who was told what to say, who didn’t even have the cajones to testify under oath.
that being said, my dear fellow American, I hope you are not equating the General with our beloved troops. He may be commanding the fight, but he is not fighting.
There is a difference. And if you don’t know that, you are more of a chickenhawk then I ever even imagined!!!
Keltoi, Germany declared war on us. Look it up. Also, using your logic we should be attacking N. Korea. They are tortured, have no voice in their govt., are run by a mad man and their country is in shambles.
Comment by hellinabucket — September 21, 2007 @ 2:51 pm
Saddam violated the UN mandated ceasefire, fired daily at pilots enforcing the no-fly zone, tried to kill Bush I, harbored Abu Nidal, paid bounties to families of suicide bombers….no, he never made a formal declaration of war on us, but we were in a state of prolonged conflict. Clinton bombed him.
My only comparison to the Nazis was we have in the past made political decisions for other countries by force. Obviously, Hitler is in his own category, but Saddam was a monster by any measure.
North Korea? We lost 50,000 men fighting a war against them. China protects them. They have nukes and 10,000 artillery pieces point at Seouls jugular – there is nothing we can do to about them. That is the argument against appeasement – deal with threats when they are small instead of waiting till they become unsolvable.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:19 pmThe last time I checked, people, America is *still* a democracy.
At least a nominal one, anyway.
And in a democracy – even a nominal one – the people have the right to criticise their leaders, to call them out on lies, to demand they be accountable for their actions.
If I wish to spend $180,000 on a full page ad in the NY Times or any other newspaper calling George W. Bush the “Chimp In Chief” underneath a picture of Alfred E. Newman, I have every right to do so. (If I had $180K to burn, I just might do that.) It is my right, given to me by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
MoveOn.org has the right to speak out as well – EXACTLY as the Swift Boat Liars had the right to purchase ads smearing John Kerry’s service to this country, and the Republican Party and Saxby Chambliss were free to purchase ads that morphed the face of Max Cleland, a decorated military veteran and true hero – not to mention a TRIPLE amputee – into that of Osama bin Laden.
For some to say that ANY of us are “traitors” for speaking out against this benighted moron of a president, his policies and/or the front men he hires, such as General David Petraeus, to shill the (Republican) party propaganda goes against EVERYTHING our Founding Fathers fought, bled and died for.
George Bush is NOT the king. He is NOT a dictator (not yet, anyway), and I REFUSE absolutely to kiss his sorry butt or worship him as a god. George Bush is NOT the Dear Leader. He does not have a hotline to God. He is not invincible. He isn’t even smart. He’s only a sorryass fratboy loser who is the figurehead and willing puppet for a whole bunch of neo con fascists and I will NOT be silent while they take over this country.
We have been silent for too long.
We have played the game politely and we have played by the rules.
We have been screwed, people.
Our opponent in this game is a gang of exigent, sociopathic, neocon fascist THUGS and their lemming-like followers – who will say or do anything to win, right up to and including cheating, lying, thievery and God knows what else.
Are we going to let them win?
September 21st, 2007 at 3:20 pmAll it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing .
September 21st, 2007 at 3:25 pm>>Saddam didn’t have the right and neither do we. When are you neoCONs every going to get it that two wrongs DON’t make a right.
No, it just makes one ongoing wrong. If you are suggesting we are as bad as Saddam….I would say that is incorrect. Intentions do count. We are fighting AQ, ex-Saddamists and Shiite militias. ALL of them want to return Iraq to one version of totalitarianism or another. We ALONE want to establish true representative government. Whether we can or not, only time will tell.
>>As to their “liberal constitutionâ€, look at how much good it is doing them. They have no government.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 21, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
Yet, Bilbo, yet. And if we bug out, what do you think they will have?
I’m outta here, going camping, have a good weekend everyone.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:25 pmThat is he difference between right and left – the left believes in freedom to do anything you want to do, even if it is against the law and you think the law is foolish. The right believes in the freedom to do what is right. Big difference there. Oh yea, don’t get into this hogwash that publicly undermining anything the government does is such a good thing. It is this type of thinking that ultimately leads to anarchy – and if that is what you want then just say so.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:27 pmKeltoi sez:
Ah ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Ahhh…that was good…
September 21st, 2007 at 3:29 pmComment by Heymack — September 21, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
Your entire post is fraudulent, demonizing bullsh!t.
Go back to LGF. You won’t last long here.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:31 pm#181 Last time I checked, a general is a troop, thus they are slandering a troop. It wrong, it is anti-troops, and it isn’t something either political party should endorse. I enver minded moveon.org until this. After they slandered an active duty troop, I feel both poltical parties should avoid moveon and publicly denounce them. I served in Desert Storm. Slandering me, my officers, or my general is all the same in my eyes.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:31 pmThat is he difference between right and left – the left believes in freedom to do anything you want to do, even if it is against the law and you think the law is foolish. The right believes in the freedom to do what is right. Big difference there. Oh yea, don’t get into this hogwash that publicly undermining anything the government does is such a good thing. It is this type of thinking that ultimately leads to anarchy – and if that is what you want then just say so.
Comment by Heymack — September 21, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
I continue to be amazed by people who show up on a progressive blog and proceed to explain to everyone what “liberals believe” — and it’s always negative, extreme and ridiculous.
Next time try asking what liberals believe instead of spouting such obviously wrong and absurd bullsh!t.
In the meantime, try reading this.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:32 pm#181 Last time I checked, a general is a troop, thus they are slandering a troop. It wrong, it is anti-troops, and it isn’t something either political party should endorse. I enver minded moveon.org until this. After they slandered an active duty troop, I feel both poltical parties should avoid moveon and publicly denounce them. I served in Desert Storm. Slandering me, my officers, or my general is all the same in my eyes.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 21, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
They did not slander a troop. They criticized a troop. And they support the thousands and thousands of other troops, which is why they cricitized this troop.
It is your inability to comprehend such a simple, basic reality that is causing you to look like such a prat. And that, by the way, is not slander. It’s a criticism. And an observation.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:35 pmHey Mack
September 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pmand who will decide what is right , a C student from the upper class ?
A christian who advocates war and torture ? I’ll make my own decisions thank you .Love is a personal choice , I don’t need a priest to guide me or worse yet a lawyer politician or a fanatic .
Our constitution ,which you obviously have no use for , says we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights.First among them is the right to follow your own conscience .
Free will is gods greatest gift to us , and my relationship to God and the universe is personal .I’ve chosen truth love and beauty as my passion .What do you do with your time ?
“#181 Last time I checked, a general is a troop”
Thus you show that you don’t have one single ounce of knowledge about the military dumb fu*k.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:37 pmRoger_Rhetoric sez:
I’m getting really tired of explaining this to you and your playmates, RR.
1) Calling a liar on his lies is not slander. If General Petraeus is going to discard his honor and integrity and mouth the administration’s lies, he’s just going to have to get used to being called a liar.
2) Even if it was slander, slandering one individual does not equate to slandering the entire Armed Forces, all your Semper Fi “I claim to have served in Desert Storm, so my opinion is better than yours” bullsh!t notwithstanding.
If you don’t have the courage and integrity to speak the truth, that’s your lookout. But stop trying to impugn the integrity and honor of those who do with lies of your own. It’s getting seriously old.
September 21st, 2007 at 3:46 pmWe have been silent for too long.
We have played the game politely and we have played by the rules.
We have been screwed, people.
Our opponent in this game is a gang of exigent, sociopathic, neocon fascist THUGS and their lemming-like followers – who will say or do anything to win, right up to and including cheating, lying, thievery and God knows what else.
Are we going to let them win?
Good on you Annie. I agree with you completely. These words you have written should be sent to every Democratic representative out there. I say it’s time we start playing the game their way. How about threatening to go “nuclear” on the filibuster as an initial move?
September 21st, 2007 at 3:49 pm#194 I believe the general. You are free (because he protects that freedom) to disagree. To call him a liar is wrong since you don’t have any solid proof. That is slender BTW since you are stating something simply to smear their reputation without proof (a general none the less).
September 21st, 2007 at 4:07 pmroger roger, could you please expound on why you believe the General? The questions the moveon ad raised are legitimate so I am curious to know why you believe the General.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:23 pmSome are of the opinion that Bush, Sammon and Petreaus are all useless bloody sacks of shyte…!
—-
Greenpagan (web log)
Greenpagan’s Newsfront
====
September 21st, 2007 at 4:28 pmYeah my country right or wrong, jonny.You’d have made a good footsoldier in the 3rd reich .The very rights which you renounce are the ones that better men than you have fought to protect !
September 21st, 2007 at 4:34 pmGrow a conscience !3/4 of a million dead Iraqi’s and 4 million refugees aren’t enough to satisfy the wet dreams of a group of oil executives who wrote pre 911 that they planned to control China and the developing world through the control of Persian gulf oil !
Iraq had nothing to do with 911 , as stated by the 911 commission and even the general admitted that he couldn’t say that this war was making us any safer !&0 plus percent of the Iraqi are polled as wanting us to leave their country ,but neither they nor the vast majority of Americans have the right to descent .
rumble GRUMBLE..
Recommend | Tickle| Report Abuse | Ignore | Flip Off | Spank | DESTROY | Whip | Squeeze
September 21st, 2007 at 4:38 pmI’m out y’all!! Jake D. Thanks for the help, but I just can’t take this crap anymore….
>:-[
September 21st, 2007 at 4:39 pm” I guess you did not read “The Terms of Use†Spudge Boy? Attacking others is a no-no according to TP’s rules. You have a history of this. Why not dedate, not attack. Typical!
Comment by Johnny Swank — September 21, 2007 @ 3:48 pm”
Go fu*k yourself. I will never back down from traitors like yourself and Roger Roger. Never.
“You attack one, you attack all.”
And it is here you show your lack of militaary experience. Non-commissioned officers and enlisted soldiers hate commissioned officers, because they all are entitlement sh!ts just like Bush.
Join up, they need your help and it would allow you to speak from experience.
September 21st, 2007 at 4:52 pmSo…. do tell us, *dear* Rogerx2 – and all the rest of you frothing rightwingers who are soooo very upset about the alleged slander of our troops by MoveOn …..
What do you think of Saxby Chambliss’ campaign ad with regard to “slandering” one of our troops, former Senator Max Cleland, who lost both his legs and an arm in service to our country…? Remember that one? They morphed his face into Osama bin Laden’s. (pretty slanderous, if you ask me!)
Or perhaps you could expound – at length, PLEASE! – upon the Swift Boat liars who smeared John Kerry – another “troop” who served his country…?
Let’s hear about how those disgraceful individuals should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of America on a rail, maybe…?
Or arrested and charged with treason, maybe…?
Or forced to apologize, maybe…?
Or censured by the U.S. Senate, maybe…?
Gad. The silence is just …deafening, isn’t it…?
September 21st, 2007 at 5:34 pmAnd I, Lt. Col. Joe, am tired of people like you who drink the Kool-aid and presume to lecture me on your bullsh*t version of history.
While I thank you for your service, I still think you’re a dupe and I pity you for it.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:36 pm“You must not have any friends with the amount of time you spend in here.”
Thanks for your concern, but I actually haven’t been posting here or anywhere much for that matter. Moron.
“The enlisted soldiers may not like commisioned soldiers, but they RESPECT them!!!”
Wrong. You know nothing of the military. Join up dumb a$$.
“A word in which your father must have forgotten to teach you.”
Respect is not something you get because you wear a particular rank on your collar. You earn it just like everybody else dumb sh!t.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:47 pmYou attack one, you attack all.
Comment by Johnny Swank — September 21, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
When a troop rapes and kills a 14 year old girl, ALL troops rape and kill a 14 year old? No, they don’t.
Can you criticize the rapist murdering soldier without criticizing ALL of the troops? Yes, you can.
Get some perspective. Soldiers may be a team but they’re also individual human beings who can (and sometimes do) fail.
September 21st, 2007 at 5:48 pmHey swank
September 21st, 2007 at 5:48 pmthanx for admitting what everyone here and abroad already know .But wouldn’t it be a good idea since the oil your prepared to kill innocents men women and children over , just like our enemies in the 2nd world war ,is going to run out in 20 years or so any way and is responsible for altering our climate and causing an extinction of unprecedented proportion against the fossil record to develop mass transit ,alternative energies ,and mandate decent fuel economies from our automakers .
Ride a bicycle perhaps the fresh air will help you to think more clearly.Hitler and his bunch ,whom the world reviles were all of the same ilk and were only possible because people either ignored them and what was happening in their country or like yourself supported nationalism no matter how immoral and shortsided .The end of the second world war left many German cities over 90 % destroyed and in ruins .
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword ! The vets who defended us against fascism would roll over in their graves to hear you say you condone such immoral behavior from a country which until recently was a shining beacon for all .
“You attack one, you attack all.
Comment by Johnny Swank — September 21, 2007 @ 4:24 pm”
Since I am a vet that means you are attacking all vets.
Don’t you see how stupid your logic sounds?
September 21st, 2007 at 5:54 pmWho cares what that CLOWN bush says at the end. (What is this elementary school with this childish act?)
Bottom line: way MORE people know who MoveOn.org is now.
AND let’s not forget, bush helped MoveOn.org raise over half a million $dollars!
September 21st, 2007 at 6:17 pmGI Joe
September 21st, 2007 at 6:19 pmjust wondering if you support an administration which can now arrest an American on secret charges ,if they bother charging you at all and trying you on secret evidence or perhaps evidence obtained through the use of torture . What is it your fighting for ,the glory of the fatherland ?
Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with the attack on our shores and everything to do with control of world oil supplies .The trials at Nuremberg and our own code of military justice supply that it is the duty of a soldier to disobey a command if it is immoral and that committing an atrocity whether it was ordered or not is a crime !
The mission ? You are not responsible for the failures of American foreign policy but take off the rose colored glasses already ,the mission is naked aggression in violation of ALL of our basic values as a nation in violation of all our international agreements ,by people who are dismantling the constitution !
Our ground forces are stretched to the breaking point or so Colin Powell says and after hurricane Katrina we had a the Mexican army and Blackwater ,a mercenary army outside government control policing our streets .
Who will defend the homeland and our legitimate interests abroad ,out of work pinochet army regulars and hired thugs ?The general who presented the neo con’s sales pitch even admits he isn’t sure this is making us any safer .
We live as far as I know ,still ,in a democracy. If you don’t like decent maybe your fighting for the wrong country ! This is America , we are the planet ,a nation of immigrants from all over the globe and we are not worth fighting for if we abandon our values as a nation .