ThinkFast: September 24, 2007
ThinkFast: September 24, 2007
Pope Benedict will use his first address to the United Nations to “deliver a powerful warning over climate change in a move to adopt protection of the environment as a ‘moral’ cause for the Catholic Church and its billion-strong following.”
President Bush will “skip U.N. talks on global warming,” opting instead to organize his own meeting in Washington later this week. It raises the prospect that Bush could once again put the U.S. “in the position of objecting to any binding international agreement intended to slow or reverse the emissions linked to rising temperatures.”
A classified Pentagon program has attempted to “bait” Iraqi insurgents by planting items such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, and then killing Iraqis who pick them up. Experts worry that such a baiting program “raises troubling possibilities, such as what happens when civilians pick up the items.”
The closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention facility looks “increasingly unlikely.” President Bush, “who last year told German television that he ‘would like to end Guantanamo,’ is now threatening to veto any move to ‘micromanage the detention of enemy combatants.’”
In the days after 9/11, Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey dismissed concerns by a 21-year old Jordanian immigrant that he had been beaten while in U.S. custody, leaving bruises that were hidden beneath his orange prison jumpsuit. “As far as the claim that he was beaten, I will tell you that he looks fine to me,” said Judge Mukasey.
“In the corruption trial of former [Alaska] House Speaker Pete Kott, a former Veco executive testified that the oil field services company routinely paid for all or parts of political polls — usually at the request of candidates. The FBI is currently investigating Sen. Ted Stevens’s (R-AK) ties to former Veco chairman Bill Allen.
“A coalition of prominent civil rights groups is making a last-ditch push to derail controversial Federal Election Commission nominee Hans von Spakovsky less than a week before he faces a crucial test in the Senate.”
And finally: CBS reporter Mike Flannery was pushed by an aide to Rep. Jerry Weller (R-IL) when trying to ask the congressman questions about his “controversial Latin American land deals.” “There’s a large man, who begins shoving reporters around, including yours truly. … There’s an opening in the doorway, and I begin moving through that doorway, and he shoves me down the stairs,” Flannery said. He later called the staffer a “goon.” Watch a video HERE.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Maybe we can keep Gitmo open til Dubya and BushCo are out of office and let them rack up some Frequent Stayer points as Enemy Combatants and Enemies of the US People. (Even give them free access to the Waterboard Spa.)
Will be a great day if that happens and may ALMOST make up for all the other despicable things done there under the BushCo Regime.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:13 amwhat happens when civilians pick up the items.
They become terrorists. No moral dilemma at all.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:18 amExperts worry that such a baiting program “raises troubling possibilities, such as what happens when civilians pick up the items.â€
And whose brilliant idea was this? That is downright evil so it must have come from the Bush Administration.
Exactly how are our military supposed to know who is an insurgent and who is not? They don’t wear uniforms so there is no way to be able to tell whether that person is picking up the item because they recognize it for what it is and covet it, or whether it is someone who has no idea what the item is and is just curious?
What has the Bush administration done to the moral fiber of this nation?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:19 am‘micromanage the detention of enemy combatants.’â€
Someone with a conscience and a soul needs to micromanage the insane person who is sitting in the Whitehouse before he totally destroys this country.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:21 am“As far as the claim that he was beaten, I will tell you that he looks fine to me,†said Judge Mukasey.
Oh, I see. Did the Judge see him naked? This comment, alone, disqualifies him from being Attorney General. I would like to know that the Attorney General of this country has a conscience and this guy obviously does not.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:22 amHans von Spakovsky is bad news and should be opposed. He is a Bush recess appointment and he is up to his neck in Bush’s attempts to politicize the justice department and election system. He has been pushing hard to promote Rove’s “voter fraud” delusions as well as unconstitutional voter ID cards. Here’s wikipedia’s entry:
September 24th, 2007 at 9:22 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Spakovsky
“A classified Pentagon program has attempted to ‘bait’ Iraqi insurgents by planting items such as detonation cords, plastic explosives and ammunition, and then killing Iraqis who pick them up. Experts worry that such a baiting program ‘raises troubling possibilities, such as what happens when civilians pick up the items.’ ”
Even worse, what happens when curious CHILDREN pick up the items? And civilians, if they see the items, probably don’t want to allow dangerous items like that to be left lying around, so it’s VERY likely innocent people will pick them up to remove them.
This program is an idiotic idea. I expect more from the Pentagon, as I thought it was being run by competent people (unlike the White House).
September 24th, 2007 at 9:23 am“In the days after 9/11, Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey dismissed concerns by a 21-year old Jordanian immigrant that he had been beaten while in U.S. custody, leaving bruises that were hidden beneath his orange prison jumpsuit. “As far as the claim that he was beaten, I will tell you that he looks fine to me,†said Judge Mukasey.”
Yep — this guy sounds like Bush appointee material…
September 24th, 2007 at 9:24 amAnd if a child picks it up? One less contributor to global warming, I guess! Compassionate conservatism in action.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:24 amBilbo @ 5,
I totally agree. A judge that will not look at evidence presented is not fit to lead the Justice Department. We cannot afford an attorney general who will not consider the possibility of governmental wrong-doing.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:24 amLooks like we’ll have a Fascist AG for our Fascist AD[ministration].
September 24th, 2007 at 9:26 amA classified Pentagon program has attempted to “bait†Iraqi insurgents…
Same MO as Bush has used on all Americans. ‘Bait’ them with promises or rhetoric about intangible freedoms and democracy to divert attention to the reality of what they’re actually doing or planning.
It’s worked for them for 6+ years, and shows few signs of abating.
Are Americans this dumb? Apparently. Either that or so apathetic the just don’t care.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:28 amOther Congresspeople may see Rep. Weller’s methodology for dealing with the press and may follow suit. Are you large? Are you strong? Do you have experience as a nightclub bouncer? There may be a job for you in Washington!
September 24th, 2007 at 9:30 amThere should not be a bill “micromanaging” Gitmo. the only bill that should be introduced and passed, today preferably, is a bill cutting off all funding ofr Gitmo. Think about it. The good ol’ USofA holding political prisoners in solitary confinement indefinitely, all in Cuba, a country our government won’t even speak with and who we accuse similar treatment of his political dissidents. How’s that for American values?
Either uphold and defend the Constitution of the USA, or don’t take the oath.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:30 am“As far as the claim that he was beaten, I will tell you that he looks fine to me,†said Judge Mukasey.
…(and here’s the rest of his quote)…
“You want to have him examined, you can make an application. If you want to file a lawsuit, you can file a civil lawsuit.â€
So he didn’t dismiss it out of hand, instead he told the guys lawyer to go through proper channels.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:30 amFrom the linked article: The classified program was described in investigative documents related to recently filed murder charges against three snipers who are accused of planting evidence on Iraqis they killed.
So, our military adopts a program used by insurgent snipers. And the difference between us and them is what exactly again?
In a nation where material resources are scarce, where too many of the people are forced to scrounge for a living, where children have been forced to scavenge to help support families, baiting is a cruel hoax. Pity the teenage boy who finds some of this bait and picks it up with the intention of selling it so he can buy food for his family.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:31 am“what happens when civilians pick up the items”
Pentagon rule of thumb- if it’s dead and Arab, then it’s a terrorist. Add to the body count.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:33 amA lot more damage can be done to us as a whole before the corrupt Bush regime leaves office. I am growing more worried as time passes — their time remaining grows shorter and they become even more dangerous and reckless.
The new AG nominee appears he will fit in quite readily with the immoral cabal.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:33 am“And finally: CBS reporter Mike Flannery was pushed by an aide to Rep. Jerry Weller (R-IL) when trying to ask the congressman questions about his “controversial Latin American land deals.†“There’s a large man, who begins shoving reporters around, including yours truly. … There’s an opening in the doorway, and I begin moving through that doorway, and he shoves me down the stairs,†Flannery said. He later called the staffer a “goon.†”
This is one more incident of a disturbing trend of unacceptable violence against questioners. The political establishment is getting desperate.
This is a symptom of a growing disconnect between our representatives and the general public. Increasingly, they cannot appear in public since they are not addressing the core concerns of the American people. It is especially disturbing when our political leaders are employing police violence, as in the tasering at the University of Florida or the assault upon a councilman in Roseland, Indiana (http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/27061)
September 24th, 2007 at 9:36 amUpside99: I think there’s a “standing invitation” awaiting the Bush Cabal in the “waterbording suite” when they leave office. This shouldn’t be limited to just the Crooks-in-chief however, it should be extended to every member of PNAC as well – and some sycophantic Bushwiping congressmen, too!
September 24th, 2007 at 9:38 amThere’s an opening in the doorway, and I begin moving through that doorway, and he shoves me down the stairs,†Flannery said. He later called the staffer a “goon.â€
So why have they not pressed charges against this “goon”. You can’t legally put your hands on another human being in an aggressive way. This is called assault.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:38 amTactics being employed by the Pentagon are cruel and un-American.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:38 amFrom Abu-Ghraib to today, we have reduced ourselves to the level of those and their methods which we have always despised.
I don’t recognize my country any more. I don’t want to pledge allegiance to the flag, for which it stands; my heart is breaking at what I see happening in my name and the name of my country.
“You want to have him examined, you can make an application. If you want to file a lawsuit, you can file a civil lawsuit.â€
So he didn’t dismiss it out of hand, instead he told the guys lawyer to go through proper channels. Comment by Squegeeboo
And by the time the lawyer had “made an application” and the application had been approved, the bruises would be gone. All this man had to do would have been to say, please open your shirt so I can see if you are bruised. But he wasn’t interested. And why should this person have to file a civil lawsuit? It is a crime to beat a prisoner. Didn’t he care whether or not a crime had been committed? Obviously not.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:40 amWith unemployment at 60%, many Iraqis make a living scavenging anything they can pick up and sell.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:43 amThey don’t become insurgents as they scavenge to feed their families.
Off-topic but really significant: AP today reports 44% Registered Independent Voters (unaffiliated) in New Hampshire. As the saying goes: “As in New Hampshire, so goes the nation” may be true.
Isn’t it about high time that the MSM begins to recognize the fact that Registered I’s are neck in neck with Registered Democrats?? Isn’t it high time that a good percentage of this country’s registered voters become acknowledged?
And, if the Dems in Congress would use their heads instead of their pitoots, they’d realize that of this 44% Registered I’s in New Hampshire and growing numbers nationwide, they’d better begin speaking their lingo if they want to hold a democratic majoric in Congress? I should think so.
Now that the blogosphere factors into the political landscape, it’s time that this huge number of unaffiliated voters’ opinions become expressed. Why do we continue to pander to a declining party like the GOP?? What are their numbers right now? Twenties perhaps?
Today Bush threatens to veto the health care for children bill which has received bipartisan support. Is he trying to tank the GOP with these continued antics? One would think so because that’s precisely what he’s doing….
Time for the media to begin to recognize Independent Voters is nigh! If they continue to refuse to do so, the I’s will boycott their media because when a large number of citizens like this is ignored, we no longer have a democracy. When a large number of voters like this is ignored, we clearly have a dictatorship. When a large number of voters like this is ignored, we have a new party about to spring up.
Stay tuned….when the two candidates begin to falter as they most assuredly will when the swiftboating begins, one will rise from the sidelines, gain the respect and votes of the Independents and Disgusted Dems and will sweep the campaign in 08.
My guess is that Michael Bloomberg will be our knight in shining armor! For openers, he can reject the status quo by not taking one thin dime from any neo-nazi special interest group. He will pick up a veep like Ron Paul who is gaining the trust and confidence of Dems and Repubs alike…..and so it will go….
September 24th, 2007 at 9:45 amFrom what I recall, he intends to press charges.
September 24th, 2007 at 9:46 amThe “gist” of this AP article is that of the 44% Registered I’s in New Hampshire, the majority of them lean democratic. If one does the math…..44% I’s and 37% Dems and you’re at 81%!! This is incredibly significant and yet today is the first time we’re seeing it in the MSM. What’s up with that?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:48 ambilbobaggins
September 24th, 2007 at 9:49 amIt is a crime to beat a prisoner.
My understanding was that other people in the detention center beat him up. The article never specified who did the beating, and if there was any chance it was the guards a liberal rag like the NYT would have mentioned it casually in 30 point bold font.
When we disguss the outsourcing of torture and not the outsourcing of murder, what do we have? Mafioso playbook tactics?
And, since when is the one hiring the hitman NOT equally culpable under the law? Since Bush and his cohorts are doing it?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:50 amHere is one way that ammunition “bait” would be used:
September 24th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Veritas
44% Registered I’s in New Hampshire, the majority of them lean democratic. If one does the math…..44% I’s and 37% Dems and you’re at 81%!! This is incredibly significant and yet today is the first time we’re seeing it in the MSM. What’s up with that?
Your math is poor. A majority only has to be more than 50% of the I, so it could be as little as just over 59%
September 24th, 2007 at 9:51 amIt’s not just a question of what happens when civilians pick up ‘bait’ items, is it? If an Iraqi police or military officer, off duty, sees bomb parts should he just leave them there for insurgents to pick up later?
September 24th, 2007 at 9:57 amGitmo is a vital part of our military system. It bridges the gap between just killing every enemy on the battlefield, and allowing our enemies to go free.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 9:54 am
Riiiight. Because there are no other military prisons, no civilian prisons, nothing. It’s kill ‘em or catch and release. At least in your narrow, confused world it is.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:01 amEven the papists and the Pope are disgraced by Bush’s tactics on global warming and the war. That’s pretty telling.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:04 amComment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 9:54 am
Glad to see you confirm the stereotypical Repug: “torture and loss of Habeus Corpus is OK for anyone but me”. The desire to have BushCo be tried for their crimes is only part of the larger picture of restoring sanity and the Rule of Law to the US. But again, I guess you are against that as well.
BTW, what percentage of your income and/or net worth comes from the oil or defense industry?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:05 amO.Bigfoot: The only thing Gitmo is in the minds of americans is a constant reminder of a violation of the Geneva Conventions on torture. Nothing more/nothing less and will be in the history books as such.
Gitmo=Trashing of Geneva Conventions
September 24th, 2007 at 10:05 amUpside: Most americans are hoping to live to see the day when Bush and Cheney are brought before a Nuremberg-style international tribunal and charged with these international crimes.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:07 amsqueege: My math was extrapolated using the national numbers. I realize that New Hampshire is unusually well educated as states go and probably not indicative of the rest of the country but since there’s a virtual blackout of the facts on I’s by our complicit MSM, who really knows? Do you?
When I referred to a ‘majority’, I was counting most of the I’s (which this AP article supports) are democratic leaning in their ideology which pushes this number then over the 50% mark.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:09 amVendetta: So what’s your legitimate point here?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:10 amYou honestly think a MILITARY program such as this can be explained in a short paragraph? With the unbelievable “rules of engagement†our military men and women are saddled with in Iraq, a program such as this probably fills a volume, and is most likely restricted almost to the point of being inneffective.
They’re not going to be leaving this stuff on a street corner somewhere. It’s going to be cached in well known terrorist hotbeds, and then the “info†is going to be “leaked†through “trusted†terrorist sources so the targeted audience is able to be identified.
Baiting programs such as this have been used throughout history, folks. Nothing new, or “Bushâ€, or even “evilâ€, here.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Thank goodness we have an actual military expert here to explain things to us dummies. Hey, expert, you do realize that the only reason word of this operation got out at all is that members of the unit themselves revealed it, because they were uncomfortable with the program?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:10 amUpside: Wouldn’t it be wonderful to learn what percentage of the income of our present members of Congress comes from Bush’s war profiteering and big oil machine?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:11 amVeritas
When I referred to a ‘majority’, I was counting most of the I’s (which this AP article supports) are democratic leaning in their ideology which pushes this number then over the 50% mark.
No, your math counted all of the I’s. That was the only think I was bringing up. My understanding was that you were trying to show how much of the state leans left, by putting together left leaning I’s with the Democrats in the state, but you then used the total number of I’s in the state.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:12 amAnd if Gitmo is merely another military prison, then the problem is not Gitmo, is it? The problem is that libs don’t want to give the military the choice of keeping terrorists in custody until each can be “sorted out†according to their importance in the war on terror.
Frankly, by being held at Gitmo, or other military prisons, our terrorist enemies are getting better than they deserve.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:09 am
Where have you been the last few years, anyway?
Gitmo is a problem because it supposedly exists in a separate universe, outside US law while under US control. Try to keep up!
September 24th, 2007 at 10:12 amI realize that the Democratic ‘faithful’ aren’t comfy with the number of registered I’s rising but it’s time to face the music. The democrats in congress are continuing to fail the wishes of the people in the midterms; ergo, registered Dems (and Repukes) are making their voice heard by registering as Independents.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:13 amUpside: Wouldn’t it be wonderful to learn what percentage of the income of our present members of Congress comes from Bush’s war profiteering and big oil machine?
Comment by Veritas — September 24, 2007 @ 10:11 am
Yea, but I won’t hold my breath. We already know about Dubya and Darth’s interests, but a lot of the others would be quite interesting to find out as well. And ALL the cnadidates should release that information, both sides.
And of course, bigfoot doesn’t want to answer that question, I see.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:14 amgotcha, Squeege. There’s if often much lost in translation with the written word. The point I was attempting to make is that it’s high time that the MSM begins to acknowledge the rising number of I’s nationwide because, according to the national numbers now at 35% nationwide, this huge bloc of democratic leaning individuals could, if the dems would perform for the people, make the republican party nearly obsolete.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:16 amI’m all in favor of everyone (congress and candidates alike) providing facts and information to the people so we can see what is motivating them – the people’s interests vs. personal greed. Then we could ascertain precisely what motivates each one of them.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:17 amAgain, Vendetta, what the hell are you talking about then? Is circular logic and thread hijacking your specialty?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:17 amYou make it sound like everybody here eats babies and worships satan. Can you back up your claim with quotes from more than two posters?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:18 amattempted to “bait†Iraqi insurgents by planting items [...]
what happens when civilians pick up the items.â€
those insurgents actually are civilians…
September 24th, 2007 at 10:19 amthat could be why it’s called a civil war…
.
If this AG candidate will not consider “goverment wrongdoing” then he’s nothing more than a Bush/Cheney pimp. Just like his predecessor.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:19 amVeritas
Again, Vendetta, what the hell are you talking about then?
I believe he’s saying that no one is being mean to the Pope today because the Pope article is pro-environment, where as, if the pope article was about how he and his magnificent hat were to announce disbelief in global warming, people would be the mean to him.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:19 amThanks, Squeege – maybe we need a “guide to Bigfoot circular logic” here at TP.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:23 amMore Think Fast:
Is “financial reasons” the new “spend time with family?”
September 24th, 2007 at 10:25 amVendetta
They would not just be mean to him they would discount him because he is religious.
Once you become the pope, do you get to stop moving only diagonally?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:27 amActually, what the Bush administration has attempted to do is restore and enforce the rule of law and order in international relations that was neglected by two terms of the Philanderer-in-Chief.
I’m not against sanity and rule of law, I simiply reject your theory that the breakdown has occured under George W. Bush’s watch.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:18 am
Uhhh… this has got to be the most ridiculous statement you’ve ever made at TP, hand s down. Yer leavin’ us speechless.
You need help, badly.
BTW, how are the Neuticlesâ„¢ workin’ out? Vendetta’s been askin’. Seems he’s thinkin’ a gittin’ a pair too!
September 24th, 2007 at 10:33 amAs far as Geneva Convention Rights for terrorist detainees: Sorry, but terrorists are stateless, non-uniformed enemy combatants. They deserve no “Geneva Convention†rights. Just as our non-uniformed military men and women are afforded no Geneva Convention rights if they are captured.
Last I heard, Middle-Eastern terrorists weren’t too concerned about affording their enemies any Geneva Convention rights anyways, whether they are uniformed or not.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:24 am
So, using your logic, if a person was arrested in the US for murder but we couldn’t determine his/her country of origin, he/she would have no rights either?
You are sliding down a VERY slippery slope with that one! If they are considered guilty of a crime, give them a trial and prove their guilt, just like here in the US.
As to the Geneva convention, to say if someone else doesn’t conform to it, we won’t either is a sick chickensh!t response: If you are playing golf and your opponent is cheating, are you going to cheat too? If so, I have learned all I want to know about you and your morality. Good Luck in your sad life!
September 24th, 2007 at 10:33 ami just hope the I’s wait till next time…
’cause if we don’t get an
OVERWHELMING DEMOCRATIC VOTER TURNOUT
the repugs WILL STEAL this election too…
we can’t afford that…
September 24th, 2007 at 10:34 am.
btw, vendetta is the trooll formerly known as “Troll”…
September 24th, 2007 at 10:36 amwhat else do you need to know?
…
You make it sound like everybody here eats babies and worships satan. Can you back up your claim with quotes from more than two posters?
Comment by TheToonGuy — September 24, 2007 @ 10:18 am
mmmm..that’s good Jew baby! **munch munch***
I’M INVINCIBLE!!!!!
September 24th, 2007 at 10:37 amOnce you become the pope, do you get to stop moving only diagonally?
Comment by Squegeeboo — September 24, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Yes. You can move in any direction, but only one step at a time.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:37 ammissmolly
Yes. You can move in any direction, but only one step at a time.
I see, back to parochial school for me then.
September 24th, 2007 at 10:50 amLast I heard, Middle-Eastern terrorists weren’t too concerned about affording their enemies any Geneva Convention rights anyways, whether they are uniformed or not.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:24 am
In other words, it’s ok to stoop to their levels. Don’t you realize that this converts us from a free nation to one that tortures prisoners behind closed doors. That doesn’t bother you?
September 24th, 2007 at 10:53 amTerrorists are not stateless. Every person has a country of citizenship. Most of AQ’s terrorists are from friendly countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt. See, our friends preach the particular form of hate that inspires OBL and his followers. It’s not the Iranians. Wake up, learn a little and stop believing that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim or one that does the US’ bidding, no matter what it might be. That thinking is why we’re in this predicament in the first place.
Terrorists, if they are anything, are criminals. Plain and simple. Most of the success in this GWOT has come from law enforcement and the courts. W’s high- and heavy-handed tactics have done nothing but embolden the terrorists. And all of you that enable him are equally at fault for putting this country in the situation it finds itself in. Thanks.
Might doesn’t usually make right. It justs makes a mess.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:00 amLast I heard, Middle-Eastern terrorists weren’t too concerned about affording their enemies any Geneva Convention rights anyways, whether they are uniformed or not.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 24, 2007 @ 10:24 am
Last I heard, the majority of people imprisoned at Guantanamo had no affiliation with al-Qa’ida and were not picked up on the battlefield. Many of them are only “terrorists” because someone in their home country wanted to settle a grudge and/or collect some reward money. Until they’re actually tried and convicted, they’re innocent people.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:07 amThe Pope is to support the Global Warming movement? Does he actually believe there is a religious and moral basis for protecting the Earth???
Falwell must be rolling over in his grave. }8*)
September 24th, 2007 at 11:09 amA point I would like to make to Vendetta, the Pope as the head of the catholic church, is not well loved by the evangelical Christians, and not all liberals are atheists.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:12 amFalwell must be rolling over in his grave. }8*)
Comment by Mugsy — September 24, 2007 @ 11:09 am
That might register a 1 or 2 on the Richter scale. Do they have a seismology department at Liberty U?
September 24th, 2007 at 11:15 amComment by toasterhead — September 24, 2007 @ 11:07 am
We used to follow that. That fine line of not declaring war and not having POW’s is the loophole that created Gitmo. Enemy combatants is a vague label that skirts our laws.
What is there to fear by trying these prisoners in a court of law. Let them face the “charges” against them and if found guilty then great. If not then we need to take a harder look at Gitmo and the procedures it follows.
That is why we won’t be trying them anytime soon.
They (Bush administration) fears the US laws.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:23 amI think the Bush administration fears, that the evidence won’t be enough to hold them. Course at this point, if they are released, those men will return home and become terrorists.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:27 amOh what a tangled web we weave……..
September 24th, 2007 at 11:32 amA point I would like to make to Vendetta, the Pope as the head of the catholic church, is not well loved by the evangelical Christians, and not all liberals are atheists.
Comment by Krazny — September 24, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Eh — people like Vendetta can’t understand that we “loony lefties” tend to think for ourselves and therefore don’t always have the same opinion.
The truth is that there are good ideas and bad ideas, no matter who voices them. Global warming awareness is a good idea, and if you agree, you will likely support others who agree — whether it’s Al Gore or Pope Benedict XVI. This does not necessarily mean that one would agree with these men on every other issue.
Escalation of the war in Iraq is a bad idea, and I disagree with John McCain on this issue, even though I agree with him on the issues of torture and campaign finance reform.
It’s a pity that dittoheads who only know how to march in lockstep with others don’t understand this concept. They can only label it “hypocrisy”.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:41 am?
will rudy step up ?
[...]
And so, here’s what MoveOn’s Eli Pariser had to say today. In effect, he’s trying to move away from the controversy, while saying the organization stands by its message:
[...]
September 24th, 2007 at 11:42 amhttp://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/moveon-to-pay-full-times-ad-rate/?hp
what happens when civilians pick up the items.
Can anyone figure out why a law abiding Iraqi on the government side would possibly pick up a detonator ? Its not like there is any sort of violence that they might want to defend themselves against or anything.
After 9/11 we cheered those in the plane who took action instead of sitting passively by. It became a mantra of homeland security to step in and take action rather than passively waiting for the police to come. Yet we want the Iraqis to sit by passively while they are in even more danger and in an environment where the police aren’t handling it.
September 24th, 2007 at 11:45 amwhat happens when civilians pick up the items.
On a Re-read, I missed something the first time. These 3 were under trial for planting evidence. We have the following system:
* did they pick up the munitions. Shoot them, they’re a terrorist
September 24th, 2007 at 11:50 am* did they leave the munitiions. Shoot them and plant evidence. They’re in Iraq, they must be terrorists.
Will Federal Katrina aid also be conditioned on one’s religious beliefs?
Vitter earmarks funds for religious group
Nonprofit supports creationist education
Sunday, September 23, 2007
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-9/1190529501310280.xml&coll=1
“WASHINGTON — Sen. David Vitter, R-La., earmarked $100,000 in a spending bill for a Louisiana Christian group that has challenged the teaching of Darwinian evolution in the public school system and to which he has political ties…. “
September 24th, 2007 at 12:33 pmMy point is there are no comments containing the typical anti religious bigotry when those religious leaders are singing your song. The hypocrisy from the loony left is astounding.
Comment by Vendetta
You make it sound like everybody here eats babies and worships satan. Can you back up your claim with quotes from more than two posters?
Comment by TheToonGuy — September 24, 2007 @ 10:18 am
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For examples of “typical anit-religious bigotry, visit any thre
September 24th, 2007 at 1:09 pmMy point is there are no comments containing the typical anti religious bigotry when those religious leaders are singing your song. The hypocrisy from the loony left is astounding.
Comment by Vendetta
You make it sound like everybody here eats babies and worships satan. Can you back up your claim with quotes from more than two posters?
Comment by TheToonGuy — September 24, 2007 @ 10:18 am
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For examples of “typical anit-religious bigotry, visit any thread that mentions religion or a religious leader. Good luck finding two lefties that say anything positive about religion.
——
The Pope is to support the Global Warming movement? Does he actually believe there is a religious and moral basis for protecting the Earth???
Comment by Mugsy — September 24, 2007 @ 11:09 am
The Pope probably believes, like most Christians, that we are to be good stewards of all that God created. That doesn’t mean that we should follow every crackpot that comes along with a “save the environment sign.” We should make reasonable efforts to minimize the damage we do to the earth. ;)
September 24th, 2007 at 1:16 pmhey Bigfwat… Word is your heroes at Blackwater have been accused by the the Us Government of giving material aide, in the form of weapons, to a terrorist group. Do you consider them innocent until proven guilty? If so, how do we decide which people who the government alledges have given aide to terrorists are innocent until proven guilty, and which don’t deserve any sort of due process?
> My understanding was that other
>people in the detention center beat him up.
Cite?
> My point is there are no comments
> containing the typical anti religious bigotry
> when those religious leaders are singing your song.
Uhm, I think, Upright Cleft, your feeble mind isnt able to distinguish between “anti-religious” and “anti-hipocracy”….. when religious people are hipocrites, they will be attacked for thier hipocracy, not purely for their religious beliefs.
For instance, wailing and gnashing your teeth about the fate of embryos in a petri dish, or a braindead vegetable, while endorsing the often horribly painful and emotionally traumtizing killing and maiming of hundreds of thousands of people on a war based wholly on lies, is hipocritical.
How any person who claims to follow the word of jesus can support a heartless killer like george bush is so inconceivably hipocritical it shocks the conscience of the thinking man.
Similarly, religions like catholicism, which allegedely seeks to alleviate suffering, would rather watch hundreds of thousdands, if not millions, of people die of disease and overpopulation than talk about birth control. This, again, is pure hipocracy, and it is that hipocritical stance which many people attack.
So my question to you is this….do you beleive religious people can ever be hipocritical, and if so, is a person condemning that hipocracy necessarily condemning the religion itself?
Jesus was, if anything, a socialist…. the people who think jesus would be pro-war, pro-death penalty, pro-big business, and anti-welfare are deeply, deeply deluded about christs message, and frankly, ghandhi said it best…
“I like your christ.. but I do not like your christians.. they are so unlike christ….”..
truer words were never spoken..
September 25th, 2007 at 4:10 am>Iranian President Ahmadinejad
>just proclaimed at Columbia University
> that there are NO homosexuals in Iran.
Ah, another brilliant observation from the shining cinder of right wing intellect that is Bigfwat.
Bigfwat, you are aware that a gay-free country is definitely a right wing fantasy right?
You’re aware his implicit condemnation of homosexuality by saying none existed in his country is an idealogical stance very similar to those people this country who lamented the legalization of gay sex, right? Perchance, what political party did most of the people lamenting the legalizing of gay sex in the united states come from? Any ideas?
You idiots have much, much more in common with these middle eastern religious wackos than you would ever dare to admit. You know what the english translation for Allah is right?
September 25th, 2007 at 4:16 am“But I suppose for you libs, “out of sight, out of mind†is preferable than facing the truth.”
Just like all those little dead Iraqi children are out of your sight and out of your mind. You’ve got the conscience of a serial killer, bud, and that’s not something any devent person is proud of.
September 25th, 2007 at 12:14 pm93 s/b “decent” though I was close to “deviant”, which would be apropos.
September 25th, 2007 at 12:21 pmComment by Chocolate Jesus — September 25, 2007 @ 4:10 am
Well, well, well choco that’s quite a load of drivel you managed to spew there, bud. Some days I almost believe that you are sincere and you actually think you are a tolerant, caring human being. Then you post again. Your words say you aren’t anti-Christian, only anti-hypocrite. Have ya checked your screen name lately? Do you think only religious hypocrites would find that offensive? You don’t need to answer that, because we all know you chose it to be offensive to Christians in general. To say otherwise would be; dare I say it? Hypocritical. I believe anyone can be hypocritcal and most everyone is at some point. What I find amusing is the how venomous libs are in pointing out the hypocrisy of others but will never acknowledge it in themselves. If you care to check my previous posts, you will find that I freely acknowledge that I am a fallible person. Yet, SOME libs here get quite perturbed when I point out their hypocrisy and call me arrogant and self important to deflect any criticism of themselves.
September 25th, 2007 at 1:52 pmYou should really refrain from trying to pigeonhole the characteristics of someone you of whom you have little knowledge. Jesus is not a socialist. Jesus didn’t advocate the government taking from the wealthy to give to the poor. Jesus told us to follow his example and voluntarily help the poor and feed the hungry. Jesus also advocated personal responsibility. Jesus also advocated morality, but we know where that discussion would lead us. Just because I point out the hypocrisy of libs doesn’t mean I support everything Bush does or that I oppose helping the poor. You need to believe that I am ultra conservative to make it ok for you to spew your filth. That’s fine, bud, I can take it. Just as long as we all know where we stand. ;)
Jesus was WAY a socialist, as were all of the early Christian communities. Back to the bookshelves with you, revisionist.
September 25th, 2007 at 3:40 pmTo this very day, in Europe, you will find political parties and organizations that are explicitly “Christian Socialist” in nature, and they’re pretty well convinced of their Scriptural justifications. I can’t argue for them, but it might be a good idea to check them out – a little “reality check” for you, one that’s entirely in order.
September 25th, 2007 at 3:42 pmI can’t argue for them…
Comment by tombaker — September 25, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
That would be your problem right there, bud. If you don’t know the basis for a position, don’t try to push it. I’ll help you out, though. They base their position on the fact that Jesus said people should take care of widows and orphans and the poor. The rich are expected to help the less fortunate and much is expected of them. Jesus never advocated the govenment redistributing income. Jesus expected His followers to help because it was the right thing to do and out of love for God. Along with that, He expected people to take responsibility for themselves if they were able. He advocated morality, which leaves him out of the socialist party. It’s that morality thing that gives libs trouble in using Jesus to further their positions. They want all the benefits without the responsibility. I’m no socialist, but I happen to believe in limited government assistance to people who are going through difficult times. I support govt assistance for people who will never be able to care for themselves. I support these things because our society is so large and so deviant that those who are able cannot be counted upon to take care of those in need. Know what you are talking about before you suggest a “reality check” or call names, bud. ;)
September 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm