Ahmadinejad scrubs gay denial from speech.
By on Sep 26th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Ahmadinejad scrubs gay denial from speech.
During his speech at Columbia University on Monday, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad outlandishly denied the existence of homosexuality in Iran, saying “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country.” That section of his speech, however, is not included in the transcript posted on Ahmadinejad’s official website.
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looks like he’s learned something from Bush et al.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:18 pmJust what I was about to say, #1 & 2…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:20 pmBooks are being written filled with the junk George spouts that never make it to the WH official website…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:21 pmSorry, Mahmoud. You said it…you can’t unsay it.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:21 pmi still think it was a “lost in translation” gaff…
maybe he meant that iran’s gay community is not as open
as ours…
according to the translator, he did say:
“…we dont have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon.”
just sayin’…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:22 pm.
katy sez:
If this was the case, why didn’t Ahmadinejad clarify? He, of all people, should know better than to fire off a gaffe like that.
Also, why was the phrase scrubbed from the transcript, instead of merely being clarified after the fact?
September 26th, 2007 at 12:26 pmi still think it was a “lost in translation†gaff…
Comment by katy — September 26, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
It wasn’t, Katy.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:29 pmThe guy is as much a goofball as Chimpy McFlightsuit.
The guy is as much a goofball as Chimpy McFlightsuit.
Comment by Wayne — September 26, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
And that’s the point of free speech. Ahmadinejad really kind of made a fool of himself up there, and a whole lot more people know that now than if he hadn’t been allowed to say what he wanted.
Sometimes, ya gotta trust people to get it right. Ya don’t need to tell ‘em Ahmadinejad is a nut.
BTW, Chimpy McFlightsuit? How about Commander Codpiece???
September 26th, 2007 at 12:34 pmIf this was the case, why didn’t Ahmadinejad clarify? He, of all people, should know better than to fire off a gaffe like that.
Also, why was the phrase scrubbed from the transcript, instead of merely being clarified after the fact?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26
It was scrubbed precisely because it WAS a gaffe. Expecting honesty from Achmandinijad is a rather vain hope. It is emblematic of why his words cannot be taken at face value as some were suggesting yesterday. Hitler said the Sudatenland was his last territorial ambition, and guess what? He was lying.
That Bush is a liar is gospel on the left. Is it so hard to believe that when Achmandinijad says “I just want peace, I don’t want a bomb, I don’t hate Jews” that he too is lying? I am not saying this specifically about you, Tripmaster, but I am sometimes amazed that Iran’s president is given more credibility than our own, or that the first four posts on this thread that tangibly demonstrate Achy has no respect for the truth brought instant criticism of Bush.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:34 pmHe meant what he said….homosexuals are executed in Iran.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:31 pm
And yer STILL a fraud!
September 26th, 2007 at 12:35 pmPersonally, I think Ahmadinejad did a good job with his speech and Q&A session, with this one glaring example. I found myself wondering: “Mahmoud, WTF? Did you think that you had too much credibility, and you needed to jettison some???”.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:37 pmI think katy has a point.
Just like the supposedly Iranian claim about wiping out Israel out of the map, who was only Arabic bogus by Al-Jazeera.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:39 pmHey, who knew that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a Republican?
September 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmI am sometimes amazed that Iran’s president is given more credibility than our own…
Check again. I haven’t seen a single comment in the last 2 days here that gave him ANY cred at all. Clearly, the man’s a raving loon. W/out the opportunity to speak, that wouldn’t have been so evident.
… or that the first four posts on this thread that tangibly demonstrate Achy has no respect for the truth brought instant criticism of Bush.
Goes ta show ya jes’ how badly Bush has alienated folks in his own country, huh? As for the parallels between the 2 men’s behavior commented on here, kind of disturbin’ to say the least.
Perhaps while we see Ahmadinejad as a big problem, we simply see Bush as a BIGGER problem, and our problem. Ahmadinejad isn’t the POTUS, and at least right now, he can’t start a nucear war.
But… but… God TOLD George to smite Saddam…
Comment by Keltoi — September 26, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
September 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmSome kind of fixation problem on the left?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
481 days, 11 hours, 19 minutes.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmI should begin proofreading.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmSome kind of fixation problem on the left?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Yes. We, the left, like to fixate on the problems caused by trolls who post data from 16 months ago as current.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pmYou got a problem with that?
Ahmadinejad proved why idiots like duncan Hunter should be shunned. America should be an open forum for everyone, even the president of country whom Katie Couric editorializes as “enemy” [what a marron!] , should be allowed to speak in our country–let folks see what an ass they may or may not be. That was and will be our strength–don’t let the fear-mongers scare you out of it!
September 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pmSome kind of fixation problem on the left?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
And you Bush worshippers are avoiding todays veteran thread like the plague. “Run away”problem from the right?
September 26th, 2007 at 12:41 pmWhats wrong with someone converting to Islam?
At least they do it in their adult life, when they can make that choice unlike when your parents stuff you with the religion they want you to take…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:42 pmSome kind of fixation problem on the left?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Yup. We’re deeply depressed that we have such a fugghead as president.
Once he’s gone, though, I hope we can learn to forget about him, and now obsess about him like the Right has obsessed about Clinton to this day.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:42 pmLittlefoot sez:
How does four posts in twelve make the thread “about Bush”?
Of course, it’s five in 13, if we count yours…and 6 in 16, if you count mine. If you work a little harder, I’ll bet you can make theis thread “about Bush”, and then you can b!tch about it all day. Would that make you happy?
September 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pmArggh. “now obsess” should be “not obsess”.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pmBack to you!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
Not only are you totally disingenuous, yer an idiot ta boot!
“… The troops have drawn conclusions about fellow citizens back home. Asked why they think some Americans favor rapid U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, 37% of troops serving there said those Americans are unpatriotic, while 20% believe people back home don’t believe a continued occupation will work.â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — August 25, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Since Little [ ] won’t link to his “sourceâ€, I found at least one of them for ya, folks. The above info is actually from a Zogby poll taken almost a yr and half ago (source below! ;-D!!). No wonder Little [ ] didn’t provide the reference. Don’t know where the rest of it comes from, but ** YAWN **, I think it’s safe to ignore Little [ ]’s “data†here.
He’s an F-ing LIAR!!!
Released: February 28, 2006
U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say End War in 2006
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — August 25, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
Yer a FRAUD!
BTW, the Islamic thing? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA… I can’t begin to fathom why you think that hurts or is insulting. It makes ya look like a bigger fool everytime ya say it!
Ya got… NOTHIN’!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… whew… that’s funny.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:45 pmLittlefoot sez:
The difference, being, of course, that TRoS has documented proof of your fraudulence…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:45 pmAnd when you find the poll that refutes/discounts that poll, please feel free to post it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
You make this WAAAYYY too easy…
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:46 pmI found this article via No Quarter, worth an entire reading.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
And when you find the poll that refutes/discounts that poll, please feel free to post it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot In Mouth — September 26, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
No thanks, ROS already did!
September 26th, 2007 at 12:47 pmBack atcha!
I copied my previous content badly, that’s September of 1959, of course.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:48 pmIt could be a error: He might just mean Iranians just aren’t cheerful people.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:51 pmLittlefoot sez:
I don’t think so. Four in twelve before your post. That’s the important number. Somehow, you think that 33% equals a takeover of the thread. Funny how you neocon apologists think 33% equals a mandate…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:51 pmBest do a recount, Monkey..
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
Hmmm… hard of hearing too, ’cause he doesn’t seem to hear EVERYONE laughing at him!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… whew… Li’l Footie, yer a natural born comic. Yer defintiely ready fer the Half Hr News Hr…
Oh, wait… it’s already been pulled…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:52 pmProbably what Ahmadinejad should have done is to post his speech on his website in the language he delivered the speech in (Farsi, I assume), and then post a translation done by his own people. This way he wouldn’t be able to claim he was misquoted or mistranslated. If his posted translation was completely bogus, other translators would quickly expose that.
On the other hand, if he really said what the translator says he said at Columbia, he should clarify what he meant or explain why he said it. Merely erasing it doesn’t fool anyone, and only serves to make him look like he’s hiding something.
The other thing he could do is publish “exerpts” of his speech on his site — that way he gets to pick and choose without posting the entire thing.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:53 pmFunny how you neocon apologists think 33% equals a mandate…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Or that 3 inches is actually 7…
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… stop… stop… yer killin’ me.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:53 pmAt the Iranian site, I didn’t see mentioned where he thought that the Professor’s remarks were insulting either. Or did I miss it?
September 26th, 2007 at 12:58 pmhe’s doing it because Osama told him it was the only way to save himself from the rath of Islam.
Back to you!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Yer a fraud and an idiot.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… this is gittin’ painful.
BTW, IDIOT, its “wrath”, not “rath”?
Like “levees”, not “levies”.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:58 pmLittlefoot sez:
First of all, I think the word you’re groping for is “wrath”.
Second, you have yet to provide evidence to substantiate this ridiculous claim, while TRoS has provided ample evidence that you are, in fact, a fraud.
Back to you.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:59 pmAhmadinejad is certainly not the first person to claim that his country completed lacked the homosexuals that plague the decadent West. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard the same thing from the Chinese over the years. To the perennially uptight, the mere existence of gay people is proof that a society is crumbling, so they rely on denial and draconian measures of punishment for unacceptable behavior.
Maybe Ahmadinejad took the offending sentences out because he discovered that his son/brother/aunt is gay.
In this country, “conservatives” take the opposite tack and shriek about the feminization of culture and the overwhelming power and impact of the gay plague but it’s a difference with no distinction. It’s all about fear.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:59 pmArggh. “now obsess†should be “not obsessâ€.
Comment by gummitch — September 26, 2007 @ 12:43 pm
Sure it’s not abcess? LOL
September 26th, 2007 at 12:59 pmPresident Bush wasn’t mentioned in the above article, nor was he even referred to…yet somehow this thread has become about bashing President Bush…just as so many others do that have nothing to do with President Bush.
Some kind of fixation problem on the left?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
______________________
Well, when you have cancer, you tend to see everything around you in terms of coping with your disease.
George Bush is America’s cancer. He’s a blight upon the land. He’s an infection and an infestation. He’s the gangrene and putrefaction that is destroying the body of America. Ahmadinejad is his own country’s cancerous growth. Noting that Iran’s cancer behaves somewhat like America’s cancer is like two cancer patients sharing their personal struggle and commiserating with each other.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:00 pmAnd as for ROS conversion to Islam, it has nothing to do with his personal spiritual beliefs..he’s doing it because Osama told him it was the only way to save himself from the rath of Islam.
Back to you!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 12:56 pm
Play your childish games, bigfoot, as you send your wife’s kids off to die for oil. You’ve proven your ignorance and your inability to deal with the truth, as well as your projectionist fear of Osama and al Qaeda, Bush’s best friends. Enjoy your irrelevance for the next 40 years, as we bury the GOP forever.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:03 pmNo, actually, liberalism is America’s Cancer. Conservatism is the cure.
Even France is starting to figure that one out.
Wise up, liberals. See the error of your ways. There is always an open door for you in the “big tentâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
You think French “conservatives” have anything in common with people like you? You’re delusional.
Face it, the “conservatives” have had ample opportunity to prove that they’re the solution. They’ve been in control of at least two, and lately all three branches of the federal government, and have utterly failed at governing the country. They’ve failed to manage the economy, failed to keep us secure and their only success to date is fattening the wallets of the already fat cats.
Conservatism is a disaster, as the intelligent among us predicted long ago. Your party is dead, they’re just too stupid to realize it’s time to fall over.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:10 pmThere is always an open door for you in the “big tentâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 1:05 pm
Yer an IDIOT, and a liar.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:11 pmHehehe.
France goes two liberal periods followed by two conservative periods…as always.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:13 pmCheck again. I haven’t seen a single comment in the last 2 days here that gave him ANY cred at all. Clearly, the man’s a raving loon. W/out the opportunity to speak, that wouldn’t have been so evident.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 26, 2007 @ 12:40 pm
This is from yesterday:
“Since it seems that the MSM is more interested in putting words in the mouth of the president of a country that we are trying to fabricate reasons to attack than in allowing him to speak ,I thought it apprtopriate to present what this supposed hate monger had to say at Columbia himself .
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD: [translated] Why don’t we encourage more research on a historical event …..” extensive quote by Achy.
Comment by freeman — September 25, 2007 @ 3:40 pm
I infer from this that Freeman does think Achmadinajad’s words have credibility and that it is the Media that is distorting his position, but perhaps I misunderstood his point.
I’d LIKE to believe everyone here thinks he – Achy, not Freeman – is a raving loon, but I am not so sure
September 26th, 2007 at 1:14 pmLittlefoot sez:
First of all, thanks for verifying that your antiocs are, in fact, “childish games”. Not that there was any question, but always good to hear from the horse’s mouth.
Second, don’t think we’re incapable of enjoying ourselves. Kicking you around the playground is a perpetual source of enjoyment for us, Littlefoot, especially when you squeal so.
(BTW, unless you happen to be British, it’s ‘humor’. You’re welcome.)
September 26th, 2007 at 1:14 pmIn this country, “conservatives†take the opposite tack and shriek about the feminization of culture and the overwhelming power and impact of the gay plague but it’s a difference with no distinction. It’s all about fear.
Comment by gummitch — September 26, 2007 @ 12:59 pm
No distinction? How many Americans have been put to death by the state for being gay?
September 26th, 2007 at 1:17 pmNo, actually, liberalism is America’s Cancer. Conservatism is the cure.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
____________________
So you’re saying the cure for the disaster that has been all things Bush is more Bush? Are you advocating that the cure to cancer is more cancer? Bush and Ahmadinejad are both extreme conservatives. So you’re clamoring for more of the same?
September 26th, 2007 at 1:18 pmNo distinction? How many Americans have been put to death by the state for being gay?
Comment by Keltoi — September 26, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
How many conservatives have had the luxury of a totalitarian state? Get back to me when they’ve succeeded in that effort and we’ll see how long it takes before they start rounding up the homosexuals.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:19 pm*ERRATA*
“antiocs” in post #57 above should read “antics”.
Damn these giant fingers…
September 26th, 2007 at 1:19 pmHardy har har! At least I am still capable of having fun playing my childish games. You libs really need to get a sense of humour!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 1:11 pm
Humour? I thought you claimed to live in New Mexico?
The liberal lack of humour or humor would probably explain why The Daily Show has bombed and the Half Hour News Comedy Show (or whatever Fox called it) is an enormous success.
Just because your childish games aren’t funny doesn’t mean that the rest of us lack a sense of humor/humour.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:21 pmI take issue with this post as far as the “outlandishness” of Ahmadinejad’s assertion that there are no gays in Iran. Please support that characterization with proof that there are gays in Iran. When TP addresses global warming, for example it encourages readers to trust the science and it gives the science to back up its claims; it rightly criticizes the deniers on the basis of the science. So, in this case, back up the claim or pull the post.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:24 pmHow many conservatives have had the luxury of a totalitarian state? Get back to me when they’ve succeeded in that effort and we’ll see how long it takes before they start rounding up the homosexuals.
Comment by gummitch — September 26, 2007 @ 1:19 pm
Well, I am quite conservative from a foreign policy standpoint but a libertarian domestically – when the government starts rounding up gays they can expect violent opposition and revolution from my quadrant of the political spectrum.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:25 pmI take issue with this post as far as the “outlandishness†of Ahmadinejad’s assertion that there are no gays in Iran. Please support that characterization with proof that there are gays in Iran. When TP addresses global warming, for example it encourages readers to trust the science and it gives the science to back up its claims; it rightly criticizes the deniers on the basis of the science. So, in this case, back up the claim or pull the post.
Comment by Eskwaya — September 26, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
There are gays everywhere. Just peek under your bed.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:25 pmKeltoi sez:
And just what makes you think you’ll be capable of such “violent opposition and revolution” at that late date?
September 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pmWell, I am quite conservative from a foreign policy standpoint but a libertarian domestically – when the government starts rounding up gays they can expect violent opposition and revolution from my quadrant of the political spectrum.
Comment by Keltoi — September 26, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
How does one square being a libertarian on domestic issues with being “conservative” on foreign policy? You’re either a libertarian or you’re not.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:31 pmI take issue with this post as far as the “outlandishness†of Ahmadinejad’s assertion that there are no gays in Iran. Please support that characterization with proof that there are gays in Iran.
Comment by Eskwaya — September 26, 2007 @ 1:24 pm
ME! ME! I GOT IT!
There are people in Iran. Therefore, there are gays. Homosexuality is a biological fact that dates back to the earliest recorded history.
Iran was once known as Persia. It was as accepting if not moreso of homosexuality than their Greek contemporaries. There is nothing to suggest this population is genetically immune to being gay, and in fact there is historic evidence to the contrary.
Ach-ma-Dinner Jacket is a reactionary religious freak who oversees a government that executes gays. He WISHES there were no gays and is working hard to make it so.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:32 pmEskwaya sez:
Ok.
According to the landmark Kinsey report, about 10% of human males are gay.
This report has fallen into dispute lately, mostly generated by right-wing “family advocate” groups. But while these right-wing groups seek to lower the percentage to as low as 1% (like here), none of them try to make the claim that the percentage is in fact zero.
Given this fact, and the fact that citizens of Iran are every bit as human as the citizens of America, the burden of proof is squarely on you and Mahmoud. The claim that there are no homosexuals in Iran is ridiculous, and it is up to him (and you) to substantiate it, not us.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:34 pmAnd just what makes you think you’ll be capable of such “violent opposition and revolution†at that late date?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
Well, Trip, I happen to believe that in reality the Christian totalitarian state you see coming at us is a boogeyman with no chance of happening. So I am not really sweating having to head to the hills with my guns and MREs.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:45 pmHow does one square being a libertarian on domestic issues with being “conservative†on foreign policy? You’re either a libertarian or you’re not.
Comment by gummitch — September 26, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
It is easy. In the US, I have the luxury of being a Libertarian because my society is basically peaceful, ruled by law and does not use force to make everyones opinions line up with the government. But in the majority of the rest of the world, the opposite is true. Most of Asia, including the ME, is still “conservative” in the sense that it sees the relationship between the individual and the state the same way it did when Hammurabis Code was written. So I find it unreasonable to use a Libertarian moral vision when you are fighting totalitarian dictatorship, or at least I think it is reasonable to see things domestically differently than abroad.
Iran murders gays. Evil. I can ignore the evil and do nothing, pretend it isn’t happening, say mean things about it, but still gays will die in Iran. Does a good Libertarian say, “oh well, it sucks to be them”?
Lets make it more relevant to the US – Iran is working on nukes. That is, IMHO, very dangerous to us and our interests. Does a good Libertarian do nothing? Was Neville Chamberlain a Libertarian? Was Edmund Burke a Libertarian?
My point is, my politics in America are influenced by conditions in America, and my politics vis the rest of the world are influenced by conditions in the rest of the world, and the conditions vary greatly.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:07 pmKeltoi sez:
Well, if that’s truly what you believe, why then did you say this?
If it truly has “no chance of happening”, why bloviate on about your promised “violent opposition and revolution” if and when it does happen?
Get back to me when you’ve made up your mind.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:09 pmKeltoi sez:
Prove it. Provide some evidence to support that assertion.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:10 pmIf it truly has “no chance of happeningâ€, why bloviate on about your promised “violent opposition and revolution†if and when it does happen?
Get back to me when you’ve made up your mind.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Oh, Relax, willya? Jeez, one facetious comment and now I can’t make up my mind?
It WON’T happen, which is good; MRE’s taste like crap and I am a terrible shot.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:13 pmProve it. Provide some evidence to support that assertion.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 2:10 pm
The IAEA has not given them a clean bill of health on their enrichment. Their entire program was covert for over a decade. They sit on an ocean of oil and their need for nuclear power is mysterious at best. They are allies with North Korea, who also secretly developed nukes.
I can’t PROVE they are working on nukes without being a technical expert with access to their sites – the ones we know about, anyway. I think it pretty damn likely that Achmadinajad is being as honest about there being no nuclear weapons program in his country as he is about there being no gays in his country.
Can you PROVE Iran isn’t seeking nukes?
September 26th, 2007 at 2:18 pmKeltoi sez:
Oh, I see. You comment about “violent opposition and revolution†was facetious. Nice to know where you really stand.
Yes, I’m sure the Germans thought the same in 1938.
Wake up. It has happened. Habeas Corpus is now a thing of the past. The President has unilateral power to designate anyone he lines an “enemy combatant” and make them disappear. Plans are in place to round up dissidents em masse and ship them off to detainment camps.
You just haven’t noticed because it hasn’t impacted you personally yet. And by the time it does, you’ll be powerless to do anything about it. That’s how fascism works.
Go ahead, make jokes about guns and MREs. But while you’re at it, research the points I mentioned above, and see if you can honestly dispute any of them.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:21 pmYes, I’m sure the Germans thought the same in 1938.
Wake up. It has happened. Habeas Corpus is now a thing of the past. The President has unilateral power to designate anyone he lines an “enemy combatant†and make them disappear. Plans are in place to round up dissidents em masse and ship them off to detainment camps.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
Germany in ‘38: The Reichstag is in ashes, Kristallnacht has been carried out, Jews wear yellow stars, the Rhineland, Austria and Czechoslovakia have been annexed. I think you are overstating the metaphor a wee tad.
How do you know about these secret plans to round up dissidents and ship them off to detainment camps, BTW? Let us stipulate that these are American citizens, on American soil, with no connection to AQ.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:30 pmKeltoi sez:
That’s an interesting way of saying they have not yet completed their investigation. Another way of saying it is that they have not accused them of violations, either.
Then perhaps you ought to leave the “proof” to the professionals.
OK, that’;s just plain retarded. You’re the one that’s making the assertion. The burden of proof is on you.
And for how long was our program covert? How about India’s program?
Their need for a nuclear program is irrelevant. They have the right to pursdue nuclear research for power production purposes under the NPT.
OK, again, retarded. This one is so stupid I’m having trouble understanding why you thought it fit for print.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:33 pmFact is, most conservatives disagree with Bush about 50% of the time. Conservatives also happen to disagree with liberals about 99% of the time.
Another SFTA, statistic from thin air. I believe 90% of Conservatives in the general population are religious and that only 20% of Conservatives in government positions are religious. Whoo hoo I made my own SFTA.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:41 pmKeltoi sez:
I don’t think so.
The WTC is in ashes.
Iraq and Afghanistan have been annexed.
Muslims and liberal protesters are on the “no fly” list, among others.
Anti-Muslim violence is epidemic in this country, and, for the most part, ignored by the complicit media.
(BTW, the Nazis didn’t order the Jews to wear the yellow stars until 1941.
From the New York Times, February 4, 2006:
Add this to directives that are known to have existed, like Rex 84, and the implication becomes chillingly clear.
But don’t take my word for it…do your own research.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:46 pm>>Then perhaps you ought to leave the “proof†to the professionals.
I think that is what I am doing
>>Can you PROVE Iran isn’t seeking nukes?
OK, that’;s just plain retarded. You’re the one that’s making the assertion. The burden of proof is on you.
I will take that for a “No, I can’t prove they are not seeking nukes”. Besides, I made the assertion to illustrate an entirely different point and you jumped all over it.
>>Their entire program was covert for over a decade.
And for how long was our program covert?
Aha! The United States and Iran are moral equivalents!
>>How about India’s program?
When have I defended India? This is, to use your term, “retarded”.
>>They sit on an ocean of oil and their need for nuclear power is mysterious at best.
Their need for a nuclear program is irrelevant. They have the right to pursdue nuclear research for power production purposes under the NPT.
There need is NOT irrelevant. It is a very expensive, difficult technology which has had mixed success in producing power. If you don’t NEED it, why develop it when you have all the power you need right in your own country? The by-product of nuclear enrichment is the capacity to develop nuclear weapons, c’mon! If it were biofuel or solar or whatever it wouldn’t matter, but we are talking nuclear weapons here.
>>They are allies with North Korea, who also secretly developed nukes.
OK, again, retarded. This one is so stupid I’m having trouble understanding why you thought it fit for print.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
Is it as stupid as the Syrians having received shipments of a POSSIBLY (no, I can’t PROVE what was in the buildings Israel hit last week, you don’t know either) nuclear nature from North Korea? Can it really be so hard to connect the dots between a N. Korea with nukes, an Iran that wants nukes, a common hate of the US and the chance they might help each other out?
You seem a little cranky, today, Trip. Maybe I should say something about America being a force for good and you can get a good belly laugh out of it like you did last week.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:49 pmAhmadinidubbya
September 26th, 2007 at 2:50 pmGood grief.
Bush? Ahmadinejhad?
Ahmadinejhad? Bush?
Hell, I can’t tell the difference. They’re BOTH batshit crazy thugs and wannabe dictators – who need to be LOCKED UP.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:50 pm>>I don’t think so.
The WTC is in ashes.
And Bush did it, right? Please, please tell me you don’t think that….
>>Iraq and Afghanistan have been annexed.
No, they haven’t. Bush is so diabolical he can blow up WTC, blame the whole thing on non-existant terrorists, co-opt the entirety of the opposition party into his nefarious plot, but when he goes to “annex” countries the best he can do is what we have in Afg and Iraq?
>>Muslims and liberal protesters are on the “no fly†list, among others.
How many?
>>Anti-Muslim violence is epidemic in this country, and, for the most part, ignored by the complicit media.
Epidemic is a big word. Can you document this statement? Anti-Muslim violence is REALLY epidemic in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is just being done by other Muslims.
>>(BTW, the Nazis didn’t order the Jews to wear the yellow stars until 1941.
Point, remind me to Google more, but comparing Nazi policy toward Jews in ANY year to the US in 2007 is erroneous
>>How do you know about these secret plans to round up dissidents and ship them off to detainment camps, BTW?
From the New York Times, February 4, 2006:
“The Army Corps of Engineers has awarded a contract worth up to $385 million for building temporary immigration detention centers
Read the whole argument, not feeling like these “en masse” roundups you speak of are in the offing. Assuming they have broken ground on it, the facility can house 5,000. It seemed pretty clear to me it was aimed at illegal immigration. Henry Waxman, the most zealous Bush investigator on the Hill, had only one complaint about the facility – it is being built by Haliburton.
Add this to directives that are known to have existed, like Rex 84..
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 2:46 pm
Rex84, Roswell57…..
The thing I find amusing is you seem to think it is more likely that we attacked ourselves on 9-11 and are facing totalitarianism tomorow than it is that Iran wants nukes.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:06 pmFact is, most conservatives disagree with Bush about 50% of the time. Conservatives also happen to disagree with liberals about 99% of the time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
Funny. That’s what “conservatives” say now about Bush. For the previous six years “conservatives” thought Bush walked on water. Now they’re attempting to distance themselves from what they themselves have labeled a conservative administration because it’s clear to everyone that it’s been a disaster.
If you want to make ridiculous claims like this, you need to point to all the pundits who have disgreed with Bush 50% of the time since January 2001. Good luck with that.
The rest of your claims about Bush’s success are your absurd assertions and have no more legitimacy (or less) than liberals who “blame Bush” for the state of the country.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:17 pmOh, Bigpoot! keeps offering his back to us at the end of his posts.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:17 pmIs it some kind of subtle invitation?
You know, like waving a hand underneath a divider?
It is easy. In the US, I have the luxury of being a Libertarian because my society is basically peaceful, ruled by law and does not use force to make everyones opinions line up with the government. But in the majority of the rest of the world, the opposite is true. Most of Asia, including the ME, is still “conservative†in the sense that it sees the relationship between the individual and the state the same way it did when Hammurabis Code was written. So I find it unreasonable to use a Libertarian moral vision when you are fighting totalitarian dictatorship, or at least I think it is reasonable to see things domestically differently than abroad.
Iran murders gays. Evil. I can ignore the evil and do nothing, pretend it isn’t happening, say mean things about it, but still gays will die in Iran. Does a good Libertarian say, “oh well, it sucks to be them�
Lets make it more relevant to the US – Iran is working on nukes. That is, IMHO, very dangerous to us and our interests. Does a good Libertarian do nothing? Was Neville Chamberlain a Libertarian? Was Edmund Burke a Libertarian?
My point is, my politics in America are influenced by conditions in America, and my politics vis the rest of the world are influenced by conditions in the rest of the world, and the conditions vary greatly.
Comment by Keltoi — September 26, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
In other words, you do not want our government dictating your behavior but it’s OK for our government to dictate the behavior of people in other countries.
I’ve got news for you. That’s not libertarianism, that’s hypocrisy.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:19 pmClose…it’s “No, I don’t have to prove they are not seeking nukesâ€. I’m not the one who claimed Iran was seeking nukes…you’re the one who claimed they were. Try to keep up.
And that point was…?
I know you’re trying to make a point here, but it’s pretty vague. Try a little harder.
When have I said you had? Again, do try to keep up.
Sorry for using such a pejorative term, but nothing else does some of your ‘arguments’ sufficient justice.
Yes, it is irrelevant. They have the right. Period. (Unless, of course, you’re contesting that right.)
You claim that it is very expensive and difficult, but in the same breath, you admit that they have vast wealth in the form of petrochemicals. Again, make up your mind.
And with this passage, you have demonstrated conclusively that you have no clue as to the difference between fuel-grade and weapons-grade fissile material. Thanks for playing.
No, you can’t prove what was in those buildings, and neither can I. So let’s speculate wildly about it.
Again, Keltoi, retarded. No other adjective fits.
Here’s two questions, genius:
1) How exactly do you suppose the Iranians are going to deliver this mythical nuclear warhead to us?
2) Assuming a nuclear warhead does detonate on U.S. soil, exactly how many minutes do you think it will take for the U.S counterattack to turn the entire country of Iran into a plain of radioactive glass? Do you really think the Iranians are stupid enough to give Chimpy that chance?
Sloppy thinking like yours always seems to irritate me.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWise up, liberals. See the error of your ways. There is always an open door for you in the “big tentâ€. -Comment by O. Bigfoot
To get in, just check with Larry Craig, Mark Foley or Ted Haggard.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:32 pm(Just be sure the ‘big tent’ isn’t in their pants.)
Keltoi sez:
And Bush did it, right? Please, please tell me you don’t think that…
And 19 guys with box cutters, led by a guy suffering from terminal renal failure, operating out of a cave, managed to outwit and circumvent the defense capability of the most powerful nation on the planet for hours? Please, please, tell me you don’t think that…
Chimpy and his cronies have accomplished exactly what they were after: a perpetual state of war in the M.E., justifying the need for a permanent military presence.
I’m not sure why that question is even relevant, but it is a good question nevertheless. Unfortunately, I can’t provide you with an answer, as that information is classified. The only way you find out if you’re on the no-fly list is if you show up and can’t board the plane.
Certainly. Here’s just one source.
Yeah…civil war is a real b!tch, isn’t it? Of course, you leave out all the violence to muslims being done to them in Iraq by non-muslims (U.S. forces and “contractors” (mercs)), as well as all the future violence that will be visited on them by our indiscriminate use of DU in their country, but that would spoil your trite little truism, wouldn’t it?
Funny…I seem to recall laying out an argument that illustrated that the comparison was quite valid. If you want to refute that argument, go ahead…but don’t claim you have until you’ve done it.
So…your refutation is based on a “gut feeling”? You must really admire Chertoff…
And what exactly is that supposed to mean? Are you trying to insinuate that Rex 84 is fictitious?
If all you’re going to do is grind your head even deeper into the sand, Keltoi, feel free, but in that case, there’s really no need to respond to my posts.
The thing I find amusing is you seem to think it is more likely that we attacked ourselves on 9-11 and are facing totalitarianism tomorrow than it is that Iran wants nukes.
Oh…now we’re down to Iran “wanting” nukes”, are we? Way to move the goalposts, Keltoi.
I never claimed that Iran didn’t “want” nukes. I’m not going to make wild speculations about the possible desires of a foreign country. I didn’t even say that Iran wasn’t trying to acquire nukes. All I did is challenge you to prove your assertion that they are…an assertion that, despite the torrential volume of words from you since, you have yet to either substantiate or retract.
One or the other. Make up your mind.
September 26th, 2007 at 3:44 pmWell, gotta skate…
I’ll be looking for either your substantiation or your retraction later tonight, Keltoi. Please don’t disappoint me (again).
September 26th, 2007 at 3:53 pmBut even Daily Show (or was it Countdown or Colbert) had a video of him saying this. My Arabic is non-existent, but I was listening to see how he pronounced Iran (figuring the president would have the right pronunciation).
He definitely said ee-RAQ . Admittedly the translator could have mis-translated.
So to deny he said it makes him look even more ludicrous.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:05 pmWhat unmitigated bullcrap. Explain the Log Cabin Republicans, which are welcome in the “big tentâ€.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 26, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Log Cabin Republicans are welcome because, for the most part, they have money to contribute. They are willing to be in the big tent because they are conservatives who just happen to be gay. Heck, if I agreed with the Repubs on all but one issue, I might be in their tent, too.
But you’ll notice the LCR presence in this tent is all but invisible. They’re welcome, as long as they stay in the closet in the corner. It’s a rare Repub candidate who will actually meet with them, and several Repub candidates have returned LCR contributions once others in the tent (evangelical Christians, for example) bring those contributions to light.
September 26th, 2007 at 4:27 pmI’ll be looking for either your substantiation or your retraction later tonight, Keltoi. Please don’t disappoint me (again).
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — September 26, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
Declare victory and flee the field. Nice technique. Reminds me of some other group….
Substantiation of What? That there ISN”T a conspiracy afoot to make Bush President for Life? That is going to be a bit tough, don’t you think?
Conspiracies are wonderful because by their very nature they cannot be disproved.
Yes, I think AQ attacked us on 9-11 and not our own government. If you think that is “grinding my head in the sand” I suggest YOUR head is stuck in a dark, moist, unpleasant place it should not be.
But I do so with love! Have a nice evening.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:17 pmIn other words, you do not want our government dictating your behavior but it’s OK for our government to dictate the behavior of people in other countries.
I’ve got news for you. That’s not libertarianism, that’s hypocrisy.
Comment by gummitch — September 26, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
NO – it is OK for our government to help people in other countries become free of their governments ability to dictate to them.
Let me ask you a simple question. If you were a gay Iranian, would you favor the US deposing the Theocracy that threatens your life?
September 26th, 2007 at 5:20 pm*
well folks… i kinda hated that post-and-run earlier… i had to get to a project right away, but wanted to get that notion out there…
honestly, i understand all the reasons given for why ahmadinejad meant, literally, what was translated and is repeated constantly…
and i wondered myself, why “scrub” those words?, why not clarify?
if it was a matter of miscomunication…
those are valid and obvious reasons…
but something gnaws at me about this, is all… just like the mistaken words repeated adnauseum about israel and the map…
i just have this instinct that this is not a stupid man and that he didn’t really say what we are being TOLD he said…
and when juan @15 commented that i may have a point, i figured i couldn’t be too far gone if one our finest minds also sees a point…
thanks juan :-)
sooooo… i went to THE premier source for middle-east studies…
if ANYone would know, JUAN COLE would know…
i’m surprised that there wasn’t more about this at his site, and what HE had to say was rather condemning, without much explanation…
in part:
the COMMENTS that followed his piece are also enlightening, and offer some vindication to MY position and reasoning…
His point, and I think it’s reasonable, is that nature of homosexual identity in Iran is different then the nature of homosexual identity in the United states. I’d say that the nature of homosexual identity is different in the United States then it was, say, 40 years ago. I’d say the same thing about straight identity.
thank you, coolhappymax… yea, what he said…
read more here:
http://www.juancole.com/2007/09/there-are-no-homosexuals-in-more-common.html#comments
excuse the length… read it all…
September 26th, 2007 at 5:22 pm.
kind of funny – a universally reviled nutjob like that actually bothering to spiff up his p.r. package. for what, Mahmoud, for whom?
p.s.@ 98 – I kinda figured that’s what he meant. Nonetheless, it amounts to him saying “we don’t let our gays get all uppity and public (and when they do, we kill them), so it doesn’t really absolve him of anything.
We should be supporting the numerous Human Rights and Student Democratic movements in Iran, which are, by degree, dragging their own country forward on the road of progress. The people of Iran, though oppressed, really do lean Western in a lot of ways, and killing them with airstrikes is about the only guaranteed way to halt that progress and send them backward.
More and more, I can only conclude that righty military-industrial-pseudo-intellectuals see the proliferation of terrorism and jihadism as job security for themselves, and that’s as craven a motive as human beings are capable of harboring.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:00 pmtombaker – all very good points… and i agree…
but let me make THIS clear – i am not absolving ahmadinejad
of anything… at least i don’t mean to sound that way…
your last sentence is insightful and profound…
September 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pmand sad…
…
Keltoi sez:
Sorry, Keltoi…some of us have jobs and commutes. I told you I had to go, and I told you I’d be back. I also told you I’d be waiting for either a substantiation or retraction.
Well, here I am…no “fleeing the field” here. But you’ve had almost three hours to provide either a substantiation or a retraction, and what do I find?
Oh, COME ON, Keltoi…you can’t possibly be this thick. Deliberate obtuseness is one of the last refuges of the intellectually bankrupt, and one of my pet peeves.
Substantiation of what? Substantiation of the assertion you made all the way back in post #73…I quote:
I challenged you to prove this statement way back in post #75, and you’ve been desperately evading the question ever since.
Now that I’ve refreshed your allegedly faulty memory, I’ll issue my challenge anew. Substantiate the claim or retract it. Your choice.
(BTW, who mentioned Chimpy as President for life? I don’t recall doing that, and a quick scroll up confirms my recollection. You might want to see a physician about that memory problem…)
Again we see evidence of that crippling memory problem of yours. It’s sad, really…
My comment about your head in the sand was in regards to your reply to my reference to Rex 84. I was even good enough to supply you with a link on the subject, and here was your reply:
Again, just what are you attempting to insinuate, Keltoi? Or is your strategy just to be vague and dismissive enough to discourage me from taking you to task?
Reminds me of something I heard earlier…
Now where did I hear that…
Just so you know, Keltoi, I’m still waiting for your substantiation or retraction of your claim that Iran is attempting to develop nuclear weapons. I’ll be bringing it up on every thread I see you on until I get an answer, so it’s in your best interests to be honest enough to give me one or the other ASAP.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:09 pmol’ sasquatch is sounding more and more like Daryll every time he rears his detestable head…
don’t worry folks, after next fall, we won’t have to bother with the smug attempts at wit from the righty crowd – they’ll all slink back into the holes they inhabited prior to the reign of the cheerleader prince.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:12 pmWell…it seems as though Keltoi won’t be answering me tonight.
Isn’t it funny that when I’m forced to be absent for a short period, and I leave notice that I’ll be absent, and I will return, that’s labeled as “declaring victory and fleeing the field”, but when Keltoi just arbitrarily decides to leave for the night (with my first and primary challenge still unanswered), that’s just fine and dandy.
Don’t worry, Keltoi. As I said earlier, I’ll be giving you all the opportunities you require to answer my challenge.
September 26th, 2007 at 10:41 pmtypical righty cut-and-runner
September 26th, 2007 at 10:51 pm