Pace’s comments on gays elicits loud protests.
Pace’s comments on gays elicits loud protests.
In March, Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace declared, “I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral.” Today, Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) called them “very hurtful comments, very demoralizing comments.” Harkin then offered Pace, who was attending his final hearing before resigning his post, an opportunity to clarify his remarks. But Pace only caused more anger with his explanation
So I would repeat. My upbringing is one that says, sex, other than between man and a woman inside the bonds of marriage, is a sin. … We should respect those that want to serve the nation, but not through the law of the land condone activity that in my upbringing, is counter to God’s law.
Pace’s response created such an outrage from the audience that Chairman Robert Byrd (D-WV) was forced to temporarily adjourn the hearing: “Let us clear the room!” he shouted, as chaos erupted. Watch it:
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I’m not really clear why Harkin is asking a Marine General about his personal religious beliefs — because that’s how Pace is answering the question. The guy is entitled to believe that homosexuality is immoral; the real question is how this belief would influence his behavior.
The real issue is not whether Pace thinks the law should prohibit gay people from serving, but whether he would follow the law if it was changed.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:50 pmThen I suppose Little Petey would consider it a sin if he were to phuck himself . . . so I guess I won’t suggest that to him.
And he already has his head planted up his arse so I can’t use that one either.
Okay. How about this: “Eat sh!t and die, Petey.”
September 26th, 2007 at 5:52 pmFU*KING HYPOCRITE!
September 26th, 2007 at 5:54 pmIf only Gen. Pace commanded Iranian troops. He wouldn’t have to worry about any of his troops being gay.
September 26th, 2007 at 5:57 pmclassy exit General.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:02 pmYou know, I kind of miss Daryll on these threads on gay issues.
He always had a way of livening things up, didn’t he?
Comment by spit take — September 26, 2007 @ 6:01 pm
What makes you think he won’t show up? This is just his cup of tea.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:03 pmExcellent, gummitch.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:06 pmSo …who gives a flying crap about his bigoted little upbringing? Why on earth should his narrow ugly little views prevail…??
September 26th, 2007 at 6:06 pmI crowd responded with “Thou shalt not kill”.
That is immoral according to the Bible but not to Gen. Pace apparently.
Is logic is self-righteous.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:10 pmGandhi said it all: The only people who don’t understand that Christ was nonviolent are Christians.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:10 pm#17 CTV…
awww you’re angry little troll arent ya? who’s an angry little troll, yes you are!
its almost cute
September 26th, 2007 at 6:13 pm#10 gummitch — has Daryll shown up since the new registration was instituted? That would be good, since I haven’t been told that I’m going to hell for my filthy liberal values in several days.
Comment by spit take — September 26, 2007 @ 6:07 pm
I’m pretty sure he was sermonizing away just the other day, well after registration. Just check any thread that mentions gay people and you’ll find Darryl. I think there was something in there (or another thread) about how he and his wife were going off to torture, er, proselytize in Central America.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:14 pmComment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:13 pm
Where was this little pile of republodung when discussing the more pushing issues on this site today? Big man to talk about the “gay” issue but nowhere did you show your sniveling little dribble on threads discussing how the vets are still getting screwed by the terrible medical care.
You are a paper tiger that has less substance than a vanilla wafer. Show your face in some of the threads that have substance and attempt to make a stand.
Coward.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:17 pmif this homophobe holds God’s law so dear to heart, how can he be a part of the military?
i have puke hypocrites.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:17 pmctv1, spoken like a true 20%er.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:18 pmNone of you are the future of this country, so quit pretending otherwise.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
You’re funny, CT.
You think you’re the future of this country.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:20 pmNone of you are the future of this country, so quit pretending otherwise.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:17 pm
You’re funny, CT.
You think you’re the future of this country.
Comment by Zooey — September 26, 2007 @ 6:20 pm
Maybe he joined the YAF thinking he’d get to wear a spiffy uniform while stomping on hippies.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:22 pm…
um… excuse me, but, it’s the man’s opinion…
and he is RESIGNing… so what’s the matter with that?…
… i dunno, but it’s getting ridiculous…
September 26th, 2007 at 6:22 pm#23 CTV said: “Think you have the right to set aside the General’s 40 years of military service? You’re a stupid, jealous commoner.”
I never said any such thing silly little child. Your baseless assumptions show your inability for clear or rational thought. Take a deep breath and try again honey… this time think
September 26th, 2007 at 6:23 pmSince we can all agree that god is a rumor, why would a General dismiss the feelings of many, many citizens. The very citizens he is there to protect and serve. He is our employee (Yes CTV1, Pace is OUR employee). Our employee should honor all citizens within the country he serves – not only ones who subscribe to the way he was brought up. It makes me wonder if in fact Pace has any thoughts of his own. So because he had a bigoted upbringing, that allows him to insult many of his fellow citizens?
BTW, CTV1 since Pace is our employee, we are completely within our rights to ask him questions – through our elected representatives. And he is completely obligated to answer them. What about the Constitution do you hate so much? A man in uniform makes you feel funny ‘down there’, and you bow down to him. I am hoping you were not an alter boy. All the pomp and ceremony maybe supressed some past memories you had. You know, the big hand on the little hand type of memory people see psychiatrists for. Please climb back under your bed. The grownups will tell you when it is safe to come out.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:23 pmIs General Pace concerned about the potential of Rudy Giuliani being a crossdresser and Commander in Chief?
-GSD
September 26th, 2007 at 6:24 pmOh yes and Re #22 CTV said: “And you hate the military. Prove me wrong.”
How about you try and prove yourself RIGHT. I’m not the one throwing around accusations silly boy
September 26th, 2007 at 6:25 pmApparently, you believe hatred of our service members to be the future of our nation.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Funny.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:22 pm
I’m going to have to see some proof of that hatred — other than you saying so.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:27 pmCT, how about some cheese with this wine.
Coward.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:29 pm#43… nah not allies, just the same brand of crazy
September 26th, 2007 at 6:29 pmDo you have 40 years of military service? If not, you have ZERO credibility to speak over the general. Take your crusade elsewhere.
No accusations, only calling it as I see it.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Thank you for acknowledging your lack of credibility on this issue, CT.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:30 pmI see C**T V 1 has successfully navigated the registration process and stands ready to tell us how traitorous, stupid and ignorant we all are.
Silly little C**T.
Comment by spit take — September 26, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
I was actually thinking that CTV (cable television?) is actually Mr Pee, and he’s an angry little troll because it’s taken him this long to get back to plaguing TP and because he knows he’s not long for the comment threads before they boot him again.
Mr Pee’s blog hasn’t had a new entry or a new comment since registration began here. I think he’s spent his time scratching at the walls like the trapped rat he is.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:30 pmTP, you have a bug to ban in this thread.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:30 pmThink you have the right to set aside the General’s 40 years of military service? You’re a stupid, jealous commoner.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:15 pm
The general is a kissup, and has proven to be unAmeriucan and a rank bigot. he can let the door hit his ass on the way out, and good riddance. America has no need of such ignorant bigotry. he can go work for iran.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pmPace was more comfortable on the Washington cocktail circuit rubbing elbows with neocons. Now he’ll have lots of time.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:31 pmPeter Pace was raised up as a douchebag.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:32 pm#44 CTV says: “Do you have 40 years of military service? If not, you have ZERO credibility to speak over the general. Take your crusade elsewhere.
No accusations, only calling it as I see it.”
that makes no sense at all honey. by your logic… and i use that term loosly… only those with equal or greater “experiance” can comment on the actions of a military official. you know… Hitler was a military official… thank god your type wasnt around back then!!
September 26th, 2007 at 6:33 pmUm…this thread? In detail, the non-recognition of his 40 years of military service over a “wrong†answer to your trivial answer proves that hatred.
Lefty hatred of our military gets more subtle by the minute.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
I think we’re all aware of Gen Pace’s military record, CT. this thread is about remarks the General made which provoked a response. We are exercising our right to Free Speech by agreeing with the protesters. Would you deny us our right to Free Speech?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:33 pmLefty hatred of the military, how rich. The only people who have stood up for the military is the left.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:33 pmthe right’s worship of generals shows then for the fascist garbage they are. generals are usually ass-kissing cowards who do whatever it takes to curry favor for another star. Pace, like Betrayus, is a perfect example of a failure of leadership and one of the main reasons the great American Armed Forces gets run off by a pack of Arabs with homemade weapons.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:33 pmAnd you hate the military. Prove me wrong.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
My serving 9 years and getting wounded in the service of this Country proves you wrong.
My support of veterans and the wounded, protesting the shitty treatment by the Bush Administration proves you wrong.
I notice not one of you trolls commented on the only veterans thread today, to condemn the treatment of veterans.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:36 pmHypocrite.
CTV1 SCREW the hypocrites career… he is JUNK. why do you love junk?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:37 pmDon’t ask anymore questions, as you are wrong from the start. Take your crusade elsewhere.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:34 pm
You take your goose-stepping, seig-heiling crusade back to prewar Germany, where it fits. Your generals have proven themselves incompetent and unfit for 50 years. He is paid by me, he will answer my questions, and you will do nothing about it.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:37 pmComment by StratRat — September 26, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
General Pace is only the employee of those who appreciate him. Lefties aren’t qualified to make competent bosses of the military.
Comment by C T V 1
Again, that only works if you have a King – which we do not. We have an idiot, not a King. You certainly are showing your patriotic true colors, no? Please read the Constitution. You know, the document W uses to boost his height in his highchair. Our constitution will be here long after Bush is living in the no touch world of Paraguay. Why would Bush, who never visited many countries as a civilian, buy a big spread in a south american country lacking an extradition treaty with the US? Any answers for us, nimrod?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:37 pmNot true. He’s had several entries since.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:37 pm
Why don’t you link to Pee’s blog? You’re a contributor, aren’t you? Maybe you’re not proud of that…..
September 26th, 2007 at 6:39 pmWho was Harkin speaking to at the end about being lectured at?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:39 pmDid anyone catch the new MoveOn.org ad on CNN earlier? Another great use of the word “betrayal,” this time aimed at Mitch McConnell over his opposition to letting soldiers have more time between tours of duty.
Is that the kind of hate for the troops you’re talking about, CT?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:39 pmNo, FDR wasn’t competent enough to head the largest and most successful amassing of military might in this country.
CT=Coward
September 26th, 2007 at 6:40 pmunder what circumstances may Americans criticize a general who has become a public figure?
Are there ANY circumstances?
Comment by spit take — September 26, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
the real answer is: there are no circumstances under which we CAN’T criticize a general, even in wartime, which this isn’t. Not that the bootlicker CTVD will understand that, he is another of Hitler’s victims, a stooge and an idiot, with no sense of patriotism or what America stands for. Supporting the military without rhyme or reason is unAmerican, and the founders wanted none of it.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmWhen you have the president relying on his upbringing and his “gut” for legal advice, it’s no wonder General Pace would rely heavily on his upbringing and personal values or moraes to make policy. Clearly, this very biased, limited thought process is a disaster in the making. We don’t need more small minded, egocentric, bigoted individuals making policy in this country – we’ve got oodles of them right now. What we need is one who is able to express “tolerance”; after all, that’s what their upbringing also taught them about the “golden rule”, isn’t it? Somehow they rely on “selective spirituality” which, in my book, means doing whatever the hell you want and blaming it on God.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:42 pmWhat I really find reprehensible and far too often witness in traditional christian groups is that when a known egomaniac doesn’t seem to be getting his way within the group think, then they retreat to “prayer” so they can “pray on it”…..and, voila! Just like magic: They return with a divine message from God telling them to do precisely what their ego was telling them to do in the first place. If this isn’t the biggest abuse of spirituality, then I don’t know what is.
It’s comical actually to use spiritual tenets and practices and then blame God for your egomaniacal lusts. Do they really think people don’t see through them?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:45 pmI’ve contributed two posts to the site, but not lately.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
So you’re a contributor. Why not lately?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:46 pmSupporting the military without rhyme or reason is the definition of “fascism”, folks.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:46 pmHi Zooey! Love the new site. Great contributions and well-written pieces. I check it out daily. Good work, Critters!
September 26th, 2007 at 6:47 pmOf course I wouldn’t deny your free speech, Zooey. That’s not the impression I want you to have.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
Then please stop inviting other commenters to take themselves elsewhere. Thanks.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:48 pmYes, Wayne. Your words make sense, but I passionately believe that this Congressional session was the wrong in asking Pace a question he actually has clarified. It was widely known that those are his actual views.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
It is a Congressman’s Constitutional Duty to ask questions and provide oversight of all branches of the Government.
It is those who do not question that violate their Oath of Office.
wrong again CT.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:49 pmWayne: Absolutamente! He who does not question is guilty of a ‘derelection of duty’ under the oath of office.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:51 pmIt’s comical actually to use spiritual tenets and practices and then blame God for your egomaniacal lusts. Do they really think people don’t see through them?
Comment by Veritas
So true. The worship of religion has created more death than all other human factors since time began. It was used early on to calm the masses and direct their worship to their worldly leader – a leader who told them that he actually spoke to God. Does that sound familiar? The nutjob in Iran is the same type of nutjob we have living in our White House. You cannot kill actual people who don’t believe in the rumor which you believe. If there is truly a God, he/she wouldn’t want you to do that anyway.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:52 pmHi Zooey! Love the new site. Great contributions and well-written pieces. I check it out daily. Good work, Critters!
Comment by Veritas — September 26, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
Thanks, Veritas! We’re proud of the Zoo. I’ve seen your comments there, but you’re usually long gone by the time I’m reading them. good to see you there. :)
September 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pmStratRat: I think that’s the reason for the unsavory chemistry between Bush and A’jad – they provide a mirror for each other.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:55 pmDo you want to read my two posts?
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
Is it important to you, CT?
September 26th, 2007 at 6:56 pmThanks, Zooey! Actually, I find more intellectually accurate and fundamentally sound articles there than anywhere else. I think you guys have a great thing going and I will continue to visit daily. I think I have a piece inside of me germinating right now but haven’t taken the plunge to become one of the critters and submit something.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:58 pmI applaud the democratic majority in the house for having voted to condemn Moveon.org in light of their slandering our top ground commander during this challenging time of war.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:47 pm
fortunately it’s entirely meaningless, and didn’t slow MoveOn down one bit. It just brought more shame on an extraordinarily shameful congress, held hostage by the loony, hateful right wing.
September 26th, 2007 at 6:59 pmWayne wrote something here at TP recently which really brought about a dark night of the soul for me; so much so that it felt like a spiritual awakening or epiphany of some sort. It’s still percolating right now within me.
And Zooey – When I see your name affixed to an article, I know that I’m going to absolutely love it!
September 26th, 2007 at 7:00 pmFor what purpose did that congressman ask that question? “Oversight†for what in this hearing? What was to come out of it?
Comment by C T V 1
Folks, he is lost. No bringing him back to sanity. He firmly believes we – the American people – do not have the authority to ask the General a question. No question at anytime. CTV1 is delusional because he feels our lack of authority (and Congress’s) actually fit into his idea of democracy. He is a fascist who probably doesn’t count for much, and this is his way of living through the actions of much braver and smarter people. I can see why he adores our boy king – it makes him feel superior in a world which simply ignores him. Why he is not fighting in Iraq or Iran for what he believes in is the major question. Maybe he is a chickenhawk.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:00 pmComment by Veritas — September 26, 2007 @ 6:58 pm
You can always email the piece to the blog. You’ll find the address in “About.” Just make sure we know it’s you, so we give you credit!
September 26th, 2007 at 7:00 pmNot that there’s anything wrong with it but how long until we find him toe tapping in a municipal restroom..
September 26th, 2007 at 7:00 pmSomething else to notice..apparently ol’ goody two shoes pace is against a military that would ..gasp!.. allow hetero peeps engaging in pre and extra marital sex, this fantasy military of his would probably dissallow masterbaters as well thus creating the globes first all hypocrite fighting force
I would appreciate your criticism, yes, but it’s up to you. I’ll provide the links if you like.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
I won’t comment on Mr Pee’s blog, for obvious reasons, but if you’d like to provide links to your posts, I’ll read them.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:02 pmThen you must be really pissed that George W Bush keeps firing any of the top ground commanders that don’t agree with him, since the troops know best.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:02 pmActually masturbation is against the UCMJ and you can be thrown in the klink or out of the service if you are caught.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:04 pmStratRat: There’s no hope for the profoundly brainwashed so you’re beating a dead horse in trying to bring some sanity to the troll. Don’t waste precious energy on a cranium whose sutures were fused closed long ago.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:06 pmHeh. Perhaps General Pace could offer his services to President Immadinthehead – because, dayum, with no gays in Iran that’d be just his kind of Army!!!
*eyeroll*
September 26th, 2007 at 7:07 pmVeritas — you rock!!! Thanks for the excellent chuckles. ;o)
September 26th, 2007 at 7:08 pmYou could use more experience in reading comprehension.
Comment by C T V 1
No sir. your comments have been very clear today. Crystal clear, even. You may have started your comment on that tangent, but you did not stay there. You took it into the realm of critizing a General, not just during the hearing. I read your posts, and you were very clear on your feelings. You cannot stand on the crushed remains of our Constitution and then backtrack with further comments. TP is the wrong place for you if you think we don’t have a pretty good grasp of current events. TP has very savvy bloggers here, and they know their stuff.
BTW, you were asked a number of times – very pointed I might add – to explain where the criticism of a General would be allowed – and you did not answer. You have all the words in the world to disregard oversight, but when it comes down to you explaining your side, we hear nothing.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:11 pmAnd Zooey – When I see your name affixed to an article, I know that I’m going to absolutely love it!
Comment by Veritas — September 26, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
**blush**
September 26th, 2007 at 7:12 pmHow funny. Pace better hope that popular christian mythology isn’t true. Otherwise he can look forward to spending an eternity burning in hell.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:13 pm“Do you want to read my two posts?”
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
You mean the ones with the sheep fence strung between them?
One of them has “I love P” carved into it,
September 26th, 2007 at 7:13 pmthe other has a sign tacked to it reading “Beware of Dog”.
For what purpose did that congressman ask that question? “Oversight†for what in this hearing? What was to come out of it?
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:54 pm
The Congressman asked a question he thought was important, as he is supposed to do. Whether or not you or I may disagree with the question is irrelevant.
If his constituents do not like the questions he asks, they can replace him when he is up for election.
You can disagree with the question, free speech is a great thing. But you cannot keep a representative from asking a question and interfering with his duty.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:14 pmWow spit take from that collection of CTV1 comments, I get the feeling that HE is the kind of folk Gen Pace DOESN’T want in the military due to Pace’s upbringing.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:15 pmYour timing is bad, that’s the point.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
Your disapproval of someone’s timing does not constitute hatred on that person’s part.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:17 pmI don’t like Pace but, he can have and keep his religious views. Those are his and should not be punished for them, as ignorant and supertitious I might see them to be.
I was really disappointed with Sen. Byrd(brain)’s (former KKK, racist? homophobe!) inability to handle the discourse.
He sat there and baited the protesters and acted like the old-timey shithead, racist moron he has always and will always be!!!!!
He could have left the room or kept his stupid mouth shut, but, he baited the crowd.
Phuck him and the West Virginia idiots he rode in on!!
WV deserves better but can’t get there with all of the WV’s ear-marks going to Senator “Pork” Byrd parks and highways and “keep’em all stupid stuff”!!!!
September 26th, 2007 at 7:18 pmYour timing is bad, that’s the point.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 7:14 pm
Pace’s timing is bad, that’s the point. he wants a nice, easy ride nto retirement, but he doesn’t deserve it. too bad.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:21 pmWV deserves better but can’t get there with all of the WV’s ear-marks going to Senator “Pork†Byrd parks and highways and “keep’em all stupid stuffâ€!!!!
Comment by dixie blood — September 26, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
without Byrd, there wouldn’t be a full mouth of teeth or anything but trailer parks in WV. You should know when you’re lucky.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:22 pmThat’s true and we all know the toothbrush was named by a WVirginian otherwise it would be known as a teethbrush!!
September 26th, 2007 at 7:25 pmHere’s the lyrics to the WV state song:
Yuuk, yuuk, yuuk, chuug, chugg, chuug. (repeat)
September 26th, 2007 at 7:27 pmWas that Dick Pace repeatedly saying..
September 26th, 2007 at 7:36 pm“I don’t need a lecture from you.”
at the end like a prim, whiny little brat? How embarrassing for him.
#124 – No, that was Sen. Harkin. I don’t WHO he was talking to but that was Harkin.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWas that Dick Pace repeatedly saying..
“I don’t need a lecture from you.â€
at the end like a prim, whiny little brat? How embarrassing for him.
Comment by Perception Managers — September 26, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
That’s Harkin, apparently responding to someone who blamed him for the outburst for bringing up the topic, to which he replied: “I did need to bring it up, and I don’t need a lecture from you.” I don’t know who he was talking to.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:49 pmRight, I took it to be Harkin, after someone told him he shouldn’t have brought it up. Good for him.
Not much discussion of the very simple problem presented by this dust-up. Pace argued forcefully for the importance of his religious education as an overriding guide for his policy inclinations. Why then, not “Thou shalt not kill”? It’s a very good question. (It just doesn’t sound so good coming out of hooting Code Pinks.) If Pace believes that his religious beliefs are more important that the Constitution, shouldn’t he also refuse to participate in killing?
Honestly, anyone who thinks Christianity deserves a platform in our political system needs to explain to me why war is good.
September 26th, 2007 at 7:57 pmPace believes that the military should not condone homosexuality because it goes against “God’s law”.
The military should not condone any religion or support religion at all. It should be neutral with regard to either religion or atheism. Religious belief and religious practice should be up to the private decision of any soldier and his chaplain, if he chooses to consult one. Religion should never guide any element of official military policy. We are not (I hope) fighting holy wars anymore. We are not the Frankish Knights under Charles Martel fighting the Islamic invaders of Europe to preserve Christianity. That was centuries ago. It shocks me to hear that the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs refers to his religious beliefs to guide his official position vis-a-vis the military.
September 26th, 2007 at 8:25 pmI wonder how many Marines have had sex outside the bonds of marriage?
After all, Marines never have premarital sex, right?
September 26th, 2007 at 8:26 pmPace was not a good choice for chairman, but he was a good choice for cat’s paw.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:18 pmThou shalt not kill. War is immoral. So we have to fight for the rights of gays and lesbians to serve in the military? How about fighting to convince gays and lesbians to abandon the military and refuse to fight in the unjust war in Iraq? A message to all gay and lesbian soldiers–come out and come home.
September 26th, 2007 at 9:46 pmGood to see this guy hit the bricks.
September 27th, 2007 at 12:25 am.
I happen to think that giving orders to invade and kill other people is rather immoral too. And imagine, Pace accepted cash for the ability to give those orders. So, what moral high ground does Pace stand on again?
.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:47 am.
Sen. Byrd: “I’ve stopped it before you were born. I said stop it before you were ever born. I said don’t go into it before you were ever born. Here! Get out of this place. Let’s go!”
If schoolyard remarks he wishes to use then schoolyard responses he shall get like this: “Sen. Byrd, before I was born… you were a racist!”
.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:17 amMaybe, just maybe, people inside a military that started a war based on FALSE ARGUEMENTS should not take the word “immoral” in the mouth…. Pace is gonna tell us about sin, not realizing his own sins in the form of blatant, manipulative LIES?? Helloooo, if there was a true honorable military, it would execute people like this pre-emptively and on national TV, mkay?!!
September 27th, 2007 at 7:08 amGod’s Law also sais “Thou shalt not kill” Pace seems to think he can
September 27th, 2007 at 7:39 ammake exceptions for political reasons. He has murdered people for human
political reasons, now wants to preach about God’s law(?). He needs to go
do some real praying and real looking at God’s law.
Comment by C T V 1 — September 26, 2007 @ 6:14 pm
It’s obvious you hate the military. Prove me wrong!
September 27th, 2007 at 7:46 am#136 – “now wants to preach about God’s law(?).” Comment by uuforyou — September 27, 2007 @ 7:39 am
Now, if Gen. Pace were to condemn all the Marines that engage in pre-marital sex, then I would consider him less-than hypocritical. THAT is God’s law!
When Gen. Pace continues the “pick & choose” actions of a majority of ‘c’hristians, then his claims of morality are disingenuous at best.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:20 amI admire Pace for staying true to his beliefs, even though I don’t share those particular beliefs. That’s actually kind of refreshing in our current political culture, when politicians are more apt to spout what people want to hear.
The question is — can he follow the law as written in spite of those beliefs? I am reminded of C. Everett Koop, a man with very conservative beliefs — anti-abortion, pro-abstinence until marriage, etc. However, as Surgeon General, he recognized that the nation would be better served with medical common sense more than moralizing preaching. He served during the Reagan years when AIDS was exploding on the scene and presenting a real health problem. Instead of ignoring it as “God’s curse” on the gays, he alerted America to the threat and urged prevention by promoting condoms — recognizing that merely saying “don’t have sex” wouldn’t have much effect.
It is possible to serve well despite personal beliefs, and as long as Pace followed his orders and enforced the law as written, I don’t see a problem.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:03 am#140 – “It is possible to serve well despite personal beliefs, and as long as Pace followed his orders and enforced the law as written, I don’t see a problem.” Comment by missmolly — September 27, 2007 @ 9:03 am
I agree with you Miss Molly.
Had Gen. Pace included straight Marines that engage in pre-marital sex with his condemnation of gays, then I would at least say the man is consistent. As it is, his hypocrisy taints his statement more than his honorable service.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:28 amIn you eagerness – to move to the hypocritical viewpoint I suspect – I believe you over shot there.
This is what was quoted above.
Succinctly said, the general apparently believes in the Biblical, Christ, endorsed sexual expression of one man one woman.
“…,sex, other than between man and a woman inside the bonds of marriage, is a sin…†this certainly covers adulterers and fornicators, which would include homosexual sexual relations.
The general got everybody, and same-same marriage to boot.
In the principles of war I believe this is called “economy of force.â€
September 27th, 2007 at 11:07 amBitbit continues to confuse Bitbits logic for truth. Bitbit should stick with using “third person” speech to confuse others into thinking Bitbit knows what Bitbit is talking about.
“the general apparently believes in the Biblical, Christ, endorsed sexual expression of one man one woman.”
The key word: apparently
Gen. Pace was responding to a statement about his previous disparaging of gay people and the growing public trend in acknowledging that allowing gay’s in the military neither affects morale negatively, nor does it affect abilities negatively.
Gen. Pace implies that he was condemning extra-marital affairs, but does not explicitly state so. Should the General decide to state “gay people serving in the military are as bad as straight people who engage in extra-marital affairs”, then he would be less-than hypocritical.
Try again, Bitbit. Maybe you’ll have more success in defending the indefensible.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:21 pmBelieve the USMC General has you covered there, DS.
From TP March 12, 2007 post
Didn’t you read the first bold sentence above?
Gen. Pace was responding to a statement about his previous disparaging of gay people and the growing public trend in acknowledging that allowing gay’s in the military neither affects morale negatively, nor does it affect abilities negatively.
Comment by Democrat Soldier — September 27, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
From the Pace quote above, I can’t see that he is “disparaging†any one. The General’s later comments make it clear that he believes any sexual relationship outside of a marriage is a sin. Remarking that people – both heterosexual and homosexual sin – is no more disparaging than remark that a person who murders sins.
The General’s remarking on something doesn’t make it so. He’s simply commenting on the obvious.
Do you want to debate whether there’s really any such characteristics as “immoral?†Perhaps you think we should vote on what constitutes “immorality?â€
Isn’t it gratifying to see as U.S. General concerned about morality?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:15 pmBelieve bitblt above would have been clearer if he had not said…
but had said…
bitblt knows nothing of the General’s religious beliefs.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pm#145 – “Isn’t it gratifying to see as U.S. General concerned about morality?” Comment by bitblt — September 27, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
Unfortunately, he is exactly like all the retired Generals that are only now standing up and saying “I always disagreed with the war”.
Now that Gen. Pace is retiring, aand will have NO INFLUENCE over policy, he decides to claim he is against what he terms morality.
If the man had integrity, he would have done something about it prior to running away.
Alas, he turns tail and runs rather than stands up for something he, again, claims to support. How like most neo-cons do. Typical.
September 28th, 2007 at 7:23 am#147 – I should have typed “immorality”. I guess I need my coffee this morning! ;-)
September 28th, 2007 at 9:53 am