Sylvia’s patrons: O’Reilly’s comments were ‘inappropriate.’
On NBC’s Today Show this morning, patrons of the famous Harlem restaurant Sylvia’s expressed their shock over recent comments by Fox News’ host Bill O’Reilly, who said on his radio show that he was surprised that the service at Sylvia’s was like that of “any other restaurant…even though it’s run by blacks.” “It wasn’t appropriate,” said one patron. “Does he expect anything different from black folk than from white folk?,” asked another. Watch it:
Responding to Bill O’Reilly’s complaint that he’s been taken out of context, Media Matters’ Paul Waldman said, “[I]f Bill O’Reilly got caught robbing a bank he would say he was taken out of context.”
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OK, I hate Bill O. with a passion –but when you hear the entire tape of this one, including what he says before the famous Sylvia’s comment, it doesn’t come off nearly as bad as everyone makes out. Insensitively put, but he’s trying to say that the entire black community isn’t “gangsta culture” even though that’s the stereotype alot of white people have. Only a prick like BillO can ostensibly defend a race by being racist.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:32 am“[I]f Bill O’Reilly got caught robbing a bank he would say he was taken out of context.â€
If Little Billy was caught having phone sex with an unwilling show intern, he would say that he was taken out of context.
Wait! I guess that already happened.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:34 amSo, I’m not sure I buy into the complete write off of any surrounding context.
I think what happened was that O’Reilly, in his infinite crazyness, was trying to make a point about how gangster rap tries to represent “black culture”. I imagine Bill has seen rap artists try to justify some of the edgier lyrics and themes of their songs by saying that they are just a mirror of “what happens in the streets,” and that they are somehow representative of “black culture.”
Perhaps what O’Reilly was trying to say was that, IN SPITE of the claims by some rappers that violent lyrics and behavior represent common behavior and acts in their community, Bill’s experience at Sylvia’s contradicted this claim.
The problem was that he made it seem like it was his own expectation that people would be yelling and unruly. Perhaps it was, but I think he meant “if I went by what some in the rap community claim, I would expect unruly behavior. But there was none, so the rap community’s claims are suspect and misleading.”
If he had just said that outright, I think that most of his following comments might have made some sort of sense.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:34 amI couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia’s restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City - O’Reilly
I guess he would agree that it was a compliment if I said something like…
“I met Bill O’Reilly the other day and was surprised that he wasn’t an arrogant a$$hole. He didn’t tell me to shut up once.”
Showing surprise that a race is “normal” is hardly complimentary.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:35 amIt’s like when whites say to blacks, “Oh, you’re so articulate”, or “you speak so well”. Sure, they mean it as a compliment, but understated meaning is, “oh, you’re not speaking at all the way I expected you to speak.”
If O’Reilly’s not racist (and sexist, and fill in the blank) then he’s just woefully ignorant.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:35 amYou are so dishonest TP.
Comment by Toliver — September 26, 2007 @ 11:37 am
Just… like… YOU!!!!! ;-D!
September 26th, 2007 at 11:39 amShucks, if Billy Boy had visited the kitcken he could report how suprised he was that the chef didn’t have a bone through his nose.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:39 amToliver,
That’s what I’m saying.
I would say that Bill O’Reilly, in general, is a liar and idiot.
But in this case, I think people are being intellectually dishonest in claiming that this is a case of racism on his part.
He was describing the expectations of behavior that are created by the gangster rap industry, and then feigning surprise that the industry may not be reflecting anything close to the truth.
Black people don’t behave any more or less politely than white people, hispanic people, or any other population. They behave like people, which means there are no valid expecations for someone’s behavior based on any category you arbitrarily assign to them.
Of course, Bill is not very bright, so he couldn’t just say that. He had to use a convoluted hypothetical setup to express his point.
September 26th, 2007 at 11:47 amIt’s so clear to hear if you’re honest.
Comment by Toliver — September 26, 2007 @ 11:41 am
If the shoe fits, wear it. Dild has made so many nasty rascist comments over the years, he’s not going to get away from the label here. I personally would have thought he’d go to a place that serves falafels…
September 26th, 2007 at 11:49 amBTW, you’re not honest… ;-D!!
September 26th, 2007 at 11:50 amAnd Biley also mentioned that he saw lots of nicely dressed African Americans at a concert! Shocking, as he must have been expecting bloods and crips to start capping each other the moment the music began…
September 26th, 2007 at 11:56 amEven though the point he was trying to make was valid, he’s exposing himself as what some call a ‘covert’ racist by the surprise he finds that ‘they’re just like us!’
Many white people say and do racist things without realizing it. They believe they are not racist because they don’t don white hoods and burn crosses, nor do they advocate separate drinking fountains for non-whites.
Yet many whites divide people up into “people” and “black people” in their ordinary conversations. How many times does a white person say to another white person, “There’s this black guy I work with who…” when the guy’s race has absolutely nothing to do with the story being told. Can you imagine them saying “There’s this white guy I work with who…”? No, it’s an unconscious attempt to qualify the guy spoken about in some way, so the listener can mentally apply the appropriate stereotype. And most whites do this completely unaware of their racism.
It’s because of this unconscious racism that politicians get away with using “code words” instead of making blatant racist statements. “Welfare moms” is code for black women, despite the fact that most mothers on welfare are white. “Taxpaying citizens” is code for white people, even though both blacks and whites pay taxes. You get the picture.
Bill-o isn’t the only one out there. But I still suggest that he get out more.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:01 pmNo, RUCerious, he’s not. He’s not saying he himself was surprised, he’s saying that if he believed what the gangster rap industry is trying to use an excuse for their mysogyny and violence, then he would have been surprised. And that people in the “community” would have been yelling, swearing, and wearing the clothes that are advertised by the industry.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:03 pm“The problem was that he made it seem like it was his own expectation that people would be yelling and unruly.”
Interesting. I would have assumed B.O. would have felt quite at home with yelling and unruly behavior.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:05 pmNo, miratim.
He was not describing a belief held by racists that rap and gangsta culture pervade the black community.
He was expressing that belief.
He did not say ’some might say’ that. He said it.
If you’re saying that he was really describing a prevalent phenomenon, but expressing it badly, then I would say why does this man have a job in news?
There are plenty of people with good language skills that could take his position and, you know, say what they mean.
But id O’Reilly is surprised that no one was shouting ‘where’s my iced tea, MF’er?” He has never bothered to find out about the black community and let his own preconceived notions govern his view.
This is called ‘prejudice’, literally judging beforehand.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:06 pmAnd when it’s about race, it’s called ‘racial prejudice.’
I don’t know how rap music created some perception in Billo’s mind that Sylvia’s is anything but a civilized restaurant. One thing has nothing to do with the other. It’s a poor excuse for his racism and ignorance.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:11 pmToliver: “If you think O’Reilly is racist with his comments, how about Juan Williams calling television shows which purportedly represent “mainstream†black Americans: “Minstrel Showsâ€. Williams was just as tough, if not tougher, in his commentary on the subject…apparently he can be, because he is black.”
Toliver, thanks for demonstrating your ignorance of modern African-American culture. Juan Williams was re-stating a position first expoused by Spike Lee in and during the making of his movie “Bamboozled.” Spike Lee’s position is that modern popular black culture in the form of ganster rap and silly sitcoms is like a modern “minstral show,” denigrating African Americans while making whites laugh.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:17 pmshoe on other foot - how do u like it now bill
September 26th, 2007 at 12:19 pmSpit take: “O’Reilly just didn’t realize that most people would not find it extraordinary that a black-run restaurant could seem “just like a white oneâ€.”
Right…. because he’s an ignorant racist pig.
September 26th, 2007 at 12:38 pmI’m sure Falafel Boy has a lot of “black friends” also!
Is it considered racist to spout “Hey, I have friends that are (insert ethnicity here)?
Because I believe it is, just as what O’Reilly had said!
September 26th, 2007 at 12:49 pmWhy won’t Republicans meet with African-American groups?
Because they are racists.
Poor Bill O’Racist.
-GSD
September 26th, 2007 at 12:54 pmOh, do you know the Falafel man.
The Falafel man, the Falafel man.
Do you know the Falafel man.
Down by scumbag lane…
Nothing new from the Falafel King. Still ignorant as usual. Just pure entertainment on blogsphere. And he lives in New York to make that idiot remark? LOL! Pass the popcorn please…
September 26th, 2007 at 12:58 pmCAUTION:
Toliver, a Bill O. apologist is on board.
A more appropriate name would be Trolliver. lol
∞
September 26th, 2007 at 1:01 pmI think if people are to have a discussion about race, one has to accept comments which will be perceived as offensive, racist, or ignorant. If you are to constantly criticize people for making (what they may seem to be) honest observations, America will never be adult enough to actually address this issue.
In this instance, I feel O’reilly’s comments are probably more ignorant than blatently racist.
I also have to disagree with missmolly’s assertion of “unconscious racism.” People have become overly sensative to many race issues and many people are afraid to say anything which may be perceived as “racist” yet the fact remains that differences do exist and simply speaking about or acknowledging those differences doesn’t make you a prejudiced or racist.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:12 pmAs an example, I reference Carlos Mencia. His humor is clearly based upon race and racial stereotypes, but I would not consider him a racist by any means.
Bill O is just a “compassionate” racist!
Like his freaky “compassionate” conservatives.
What a loser
September 26th, 2007 at 1:19 pm“Does he expect anything different from black folk than from white folk?,†asked another.
Well, I do expect to not hear a white person use the word “folk” like that.
And Bill O has interviewed rappers, if that bit of info brings anything to this discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oLGjhpY9jM
From their introductions alone, it’s no wonder Bill O has a bad view of rappers. When they first appear on camera, Cam’ron does a little thug side-to-side movement, he doesn’t even sit up in his chair or try to look remotely professional (sports jersey? C’mon!) and Damon Dash has to flash the hand sign for his label, hat brought down making it hard for us to look into his eyes.
Already it doesn’t look like these guys know how to defend their culture to the old white people watching this stupid show.
And then the loud taunting, “You maaaad, you maaaad!” Oh yeah, THAT makes them sound intelligent.
What I get from this story is one GIANT circle of idiots.
An idiot white man made an idiot judgement because of his exposure to so many idiot black people who are allowed and promoted by idiot white record executives to promote the dangerous idiot gangster lifestyle… a lifestyle that was in part created by the idiot white man who enslaved them so long ago, and only just gave blacks equal rights a couple decades ago, but even to this day most are treated unfairly by the idiots in power. But even with so many GOOD black people trying to help, empower, and encourage good, proud black people, you still have these idiot black gangsta rappers that promote the bad side.
Cam’ron says he’s a reporter, reporting on what he sees on his streets. He’s a product of his environment. I don’t know why he doesn’t take the high road and instead of just “reporting” the violence (which I believe is a word he uses to disguise the real word that describes what he’s doing: PROMOTING). Just look at the many heated arguments Cam’ron has gotten into over the years. He doesn’t seem to handle issues very well.
This is a long tangent, I’m sorry. I just one to point out that Bill O’s guests in the video clip represent just a FRACTION of what’s out there, and weather or not Bill said what he said to deliberately be offensive, or because he was just another idiot white man, there is INDEED some truth to the statement. Just as it’s true that there are a great deal of idiot white people out there.
Perhaps what Bill O said didn’t need to be spoken, since the same can be said for his race. But it doesn’t make his statement false.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:28 pmJust look at the level of language that he uses against Media Matters and the Netroots. Could he be more hysterical? Look at his statements about Media Matters - try inserting more extreme or scary terms for the ones he uses to describe us. You can’t. David Brooks is running around claiming that the Netroots’ influence is regressing. This complete overreaction to someone simply reprinting and quoting his own words and adding some criticism is very telling. NostraDumbAsses like O’Reilly and Brooks would be focusing on something else entirely if they weren’t totally sh!tting their pants.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:39 pmI’ll bet the people there were clean and articulate too.
September 26th, 2007 at 1:41 pmtoliver, my point was to refute your argument that Juan Williams’ statement was racist. It is not racist to point out that modern African-American pop culture is somewhat of a “minstral show.” It’s reality. They denegrate their own culture for the amusement of the predominate white population.
Again, watch Spike Lee’s “Bamboozled” if you don’t get what I’m saying.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:15 pmI also have to disagree with missmolly’s assertion of “unconscious racism.†People have become overly sensative to many race issues and many people are afraid to say anything which may be perceived as “racist†yet the fact remains that differences do exist and simply speaking about or acknowledging those differences doesn’t make you a prejudiced or racist.
As an example, I reference Carlos Mencia. His humor is clearly based upon race and racial stereotypes, but I would not consider him a racist by any means.
Comment by dim wit — September 26, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
I don’t blame you for disagreeing with me if what you think I said was a condemnation of race discussion. But that wasn’t the point I was trying to make. Acknowledging differences in race (REAL differences, not just perceived ones) and discussing them isn’t racist (unless the discussion perpetuates negative and erroneous stereotypes, of course). Engaging in honest discussion about race isn’t racist.
No, the point I made was the habit we have of injecting race into the story when it’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. My example was two white people talking about a third person unknown to the listening white person. If that person is white, no mention of color is ever made. If that person is black, it’s usually mentioned. Why is this? And yes, I believe that dividing humanity into groups of “people” and “black people” is racist.
BTW — I’ve seen Carlos Mencia on Comedy Central. I don’t mind his skewering race stereotypes, as they deserve to be made fun of. I just find the rest of his humor rather vulgar.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:19 pm“Does he expect anything different from black folk than from white folk?,†asked another.
Well, I do expect to not hear a white person use the word “folk†like that.
That is too funny! Billo is always “Looking out for the folks” He uses that term pretty much on a daily basis.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:31 pm“Taken out of context” is just reichwing codespeak for “Damn! You caught me lying/saying ugly-racist-bigoted things!”
Good grief. Billo needs to shut the fleck up.
September 26th, 2007 at 2:44 pmNo, the point I made was the habit we have of injecting race into the story when it’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. My example was two white people talking about a third person unknown to the listening white person. If that person is white, no mention of color is ever made. If that person is black, it’s usually mentioned. Why is this? And yes, I believe that dividing humanity into groups of “people†and “black people†is racist.
Comment by missmolly — September 26, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
Are you suggesting that when two black people are talking and the third person they are talking about is white that the third person is not described as “white?” If this is your suggestion, I think you are incorrect.
Also, as clarification, are you saying white people tend to divide categorize people into two groups: people and black people? Or are you saying white people categorize people into many groups (such as black, hispanic, asian, homosexual, etc.)
I would also note it is simple human nature for people to classify and categorize things, such as people, plants, and animals. You seem to suggest that when white people categorize someone, they are being racist. Yet, my personal experience in the world would indicate that everyone does this: the Japanese and Chinese tend to not like each other very much (at no fault of the white man) and many South Americans consider Central Americans to be inferior (while most Americans couldn’t tell the difference). I could list hundreds of references where non-white people stereotype other non-white people for whatever reason and I am sure they use their own terminology when speaking.
I could further note you indicate white people inject race into a conversation when its not neccessary. I could take this to a logical (or illogical) extreme and say this about gender as well. Would you object to that? When speaking to another person about a third person should I refrain from using gender specific pronouns:
“Betty did a great job on that file”
“Yes, she is a great employee”
You will admit gender specific pronouns are clearly unneccessary to the subject of the sentence. I will admit this a bit extreme, however, the point I am making is that simply because people classify and categorize does not make them racist (or in this case - sexist)
September 26th, 2007 at 4:05 pmI hate to agree with Bill O’Reilly (can’t stand him), but even listening to the cut on Media Matters, it is like others in this thread have said. He was making a point about how pop culture portrays “black culture” and how real “black culture” is not like that.
He was in a discussion with Al Sharpton about the damage that the rap and hip hop artists do to young black kids as well as causing stereotypes in whites. Instilling black youth with the perception that the things in rap videos and MTV culture is how they are supposed to act. In fact, Al brought it up. He wasn’t saying he expected people in Sylvia’s to be different, he said it wasn’t like the rappers portray. He was actually implying that it is an ignorant opinion to have.
As much as I hate him. He is wrong 99.9% of the time, if I ignore the fact that he made these statements in a natural discussion with a black leader on race issues, then I am no better than the lying scum I can’t stand. If we look at this in reverse and Bill O was slamming someone for the same quote, TP and most here would be defending whoever said it. It is similar to when Kerry “implied” (he didn’t really) that the military was dumb and couldn’t do anything else.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:22 amWhen is Oreilly going to be held accountable for his racial slur, which clearly did have racist intent?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 26, 2007 @ 11:53 am
Of course it didn’t. He was saying black people are no longer blindly following the Dems because they discovered that too many Dems were content with status quo for blacks, keeping them forever beholden to the party and not raising their standard of living. He was pointing out that rappers and their vile songs are not representative of the average black person. Judging from rappers, one would think that most all black people are nasty, hateful, foul mouthed, sex crazed hoodlums. O’Reilly was pointing out the harm that rappers do to black people.
September 27th, 2007 at 1:34 amRumor is that BO’s radio show has been headed toward cancellation for some time now. BO is trying his best to raise some sort of ruckus so he will look like the victim in all this instead of the loser. He’s working at setting himself up as another Don Imus who was ‘unfairly attacked by the liberal media’ rather than admit his show bombed.
September 27th, 2007 at 9:24 amexcuse me, Toliver?
…and anyone else…
O’Reilly made the worst of his “commenting” (”I couldn’t believe….”) BEFORE any discussion with Juan Williams, i.e., BEFORE the Williams book hawking segment. i.e., BEFORE Williams came on.
secondly, there is NO CONTEXT for making such asinine and racist statements. whether O’Reilly is a racist or not, the comments are, soooo.
there is nothing defensible by him or anyone else here.
lastly, of any of those, particularly Media Matters, he is lashing out against to spread his administration fronting left-wing conspiracy FUD and hate, show me PLEASE where any of those called him a RACIST?
do some research before you believe it is THAT easy; unless you have done your homework you only THINK it’s easy, i.e., did any of you listen to the tape, repeated ad nauseam.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:25 am