GOP Snubbing Of PBS Debate Is Part Of A ‘Pattern’ Of ‘Disrespect’ for ‘Black And Brown Americans’
GOP Snubbing Of PBS Debate Is Part Of A ‘Pattern’ Of ‘Disrespect’ for ‘Black And Brown Americans’
Tonight, at 9 PM ET, talk show host Tavis Smiley will moderate a Republican presidential forum at Morgan Sate University in Maryland, where candidates will for the first time answer questions from “a panel exclusively comprised of journalists of color.” Controversy is surrounding the event, however, as the four Republican frontrunners — Rudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, and Sen. John McCain — have all opted to ditch the debate. Empty lecterns will stand on the stage in their place.
Smiley has been blunt in his opinion of the candidate no-shows, telling USA Today that “no one should be elected president of this country in 2008 if they think that along the way they can ignore people of color.” On CNN’s Out In The Open last night, Smiley re-iterated that point, adding that the snub was part of an apparent pattern of disregarding minority groups and issues:
When you say no to every black request you recieve, to black organizations, to black media. When you say no to every hispanic invitation you recieve, to organizations and to Univision, and to other hispanic media. When you say no to every black and brown request you receive, is that a scheduling problem or is that a pattern? They’re trying to go, these frontrunners, these Republican frontrunners, trying to go through this entire primary process and never have to address voters of color and never queried journalists of color. And I think in the most multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-ethnic America ever, that quite frankly, is unacceptable.
Watch it:
This is now the third minority-focused debate in which the Republican front runners have refused to participate. They also did not attend a debate on gay issues hosted by the Human Rights Campaign and the Logo network as well as a Spanish-language debate hosted by Univision.
The snubbing of minority forums by top GOP candidates has been met with condemnation from voices across the political spectrum.
On the right, the Washington Times editorialized “that some run-of-the mill fund-raiser” should not be “more important” for candidates “than building up their relationships with black and Hispanic voters.” Former Maryland Lt. Governor Michael Steele, one of the most prominent African-Americans in the GOP, called the PBS debate “an important opportunity for” candidates “to put up or shut up, when it to comes to minority communities in the country.”
As Smiley says, the refusal of the Republican frontrunners to appear at the All-American Presidential Forum is “serving up some disrespect to black and brown Americans,” whether they be Republicans, Democrats or Independents.
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The empty lecterns is a terrific idea.
September 27th, 2007 at 2:56 pmPerhaps Bill O'Reilly can be a proxy for one of the absentees. That way he can express his amazement that dark folks can ask really smart questions and know lots of issues not covered on Fox.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:02 pm@CaptainMantastic -- clearly you don't want an intelligent answer, thus, I believe none will be forthcoming.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:07 pmHow’s this any different from Democrats refusing to debate on Fox?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — September 27, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
I love it! Now Conservatives are an ethnicity! Are they a minority too? Should the government protect them from discrimination?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:08 pmOh, please, Captain - how is that comparison even remotely logical? All but the 25% Kool-Aid drinkers know that Fox News is an arm of the Republican Party; the entire Democratic slate, and the Democratic Party as a whole, made the decision to refuse to be ridiculed and used for fodder by the shills that work for Fox. Who are the Democrats hurting by refusing to be on Fox - the quarter of this country that thinks that Sadaam had something to do with 9/11? They're not going to change the minds of those people, so why open themselves up to the ridicule and and misrepresentations (to say nothing of the dirty tactics during the debate) that are sure to ensue?
This refusal by the Republicans, on the other hand, shows a clear, compelling and continual disregard, contempt and utter lack of regard for people of color (and anyone who aren't white and middle- and upper-class heterosexuals). The entire Republican party is full of bigots, racists, closeted homophobes. Bill O'Reilly's comments do not exist in a vacuum - they are an integral part of the Republican Party's belief system and it's becoming more and more apparent to voters.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:09 pm#2
Because Fox News is opinion media at it's worst, and these debates are targeting an actual group of people.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:09 pmHah..
September 27th, 2007 at 3:09 pmWell, I tried... :-)
Carol
September 27th, 2007 at 3:10 pmGOP'ers know, now that the fix is firmly in with their voter suppression tactics, that the minority vote is something they need not worry about.
Capt. Glanstatic - Fox is not a race of people.
Bartlebee - your sarcasm kicks ass, as did your cage match with Tracy on that other thread.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:10 pmCaptainMantastic sez:
PBS is not a government propaganda mill and smear machine disguised (poorly) as a news outlet.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:12 pmWilco
The empty lecterns is a terrific idea.
And full lecterns would be an even better one.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:13 pmrudy and the other dwarves should go before black journalists to discover that none of them shout: "Hey MF, where's my iced tea."
and to Captainlittleman: After 2008 you, too, will
September 27th, 2007 at 3:13 pmknow what it feels like to be an irrelevant minority.
Get over the FOX news debate!
The political candidates should appear on the debate even though they will be slighted in the voting by most minorities because they are the "political party" that is suppose to believe in more self reliance and less on hand outs and "special" laws for minorities that Dems impose as an entitlement because "they" cannot take of themselves.
Just another form of the man keeping us down.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:14 pmAlso, the republicans have refused 3 different debates, How come the "liberal mediaâ„¢" isn't yelling about how if they can't face gays, hispanics,blacks, how can they face down Bin Laden?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:15 pmSpeaking of debates:
"The leading Democratic White House hopefuls conceded Wednesday night they cannot guarantee to pull all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the end of the next presidential term in 2013."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298212,00.html
September 27th, 2007 at 3:15 pmhelenahandbasket sez:
Maybe they do...after all, I've been known to... ^_^
September 27th, 2007 at 3:15 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — September 27, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
It looks like you're trying to make a point here, Jason.
Try a bit harder.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:16 pmPBS does have an agenda and is run by the government. Don't full yourself. Just like "public" schools. Just slight of hand, kind of like the Peoples Republic of China.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pmThe Rightwing doesn't see black and white. They f@ck all Americans indiscriminately (unless you're rich, natch)
September 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pm*cough* we're staying in Iraq no matter what party gets elected next year. *ahem.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:18 pmComment by Jason M. Hendler — September 27, 2007 @ 3:15 pm
And this pertains to the republican front runners thumbing their noses at a sizable portion of this country how?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmNPR -- all the way.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmC'mon Republicans, Bill O'Reilly says they are just like regular people. You don't have to be afraid anymore.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:19 pmLMFAO
September 27th, 2007 at 3:20 pmjason m.: Another gop troll trying to spread disunity among the dems. We are united to kick some serious republic butt Nov. 2008.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pmBut, hey, thanks for playing.
And I'm sure you've never availed yourself of those horrible, nasty government-run programs (did you attend private school? Do you never, ever turn on PBS, even to watch a nature program?) More hypocrisy from the right...
September 27th, 2007 at 3:22 pm#9 Need to learn more and stop living in a living vacuum. The liberal media has taken that out of context. Just ask Juan Williams and those others who have attended or watched it.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmAnd I’m sure you’ve never availed yourself of those horrible, nasty government-run programs (did you attend private school? Do you never, ever turn on PBS, even to watch a nature program?) More hypocrisy from the right…
Comment by CarolSoprano — September 27, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
Maybe not. I bet his tv is permanently set on Fox News. He knows that watching NPR will make him gay.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmBehind the empty lecterns should be cardboard cutouts of the missing candidates with their middle fingers held up.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:23 pmNPR — all the way.
Comment by Picklee — September 27, 2007 @ 3:19 pm
What about Frontline?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:24 pmWow now this is interesting as the GOP no show. I'll be glad to see who the Republican Candidate when this primary is over. We still have voters rights and without Karl Rove fixing the voting machines and denying minorities the right to vote I wonder. How will the Republican Presidential Candidate ask minorities to vote Republican. We still have 2/3 minority voters and that's why Bush tried so hard to win them over even trying to speak Spanish. Now the only way to win is pass a bill that denies minorities Voting Rights.
As for the no show to Fox aka Bush station well it goes without saying. Fox doesn't even print corrections to the lies they tell. I know there are more Americans that believe in equal Rights then those that don't. One group comes to mine as the US minority Soldiers serving today in Afghanistan and Iraq. I know all the people on this blog Support all our troops equally and honor them for putting their lives on the line. Right?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:24 pm:-) You might be right! Poor misguided soul...
September 27th, 2007 at 3:25 pman evil: BS. PBS is partially funded by the federal government. Now, back to your home schooling.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:25 pmMaybe not. I bet his tv is permanently set on Fox News. He knows that watching NPR will make him gay.
Comment by gummitch — September 27, 2007 @ 3:23 pm
If you're watching NPR, you're on really good acid.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:26 pmFirst, Tavist Smiley is a no talent beligerant hack who wouldn't even have a show were it not subsidized by taxpayers (PBS). Second, what is the necessity of pandering to special interst groups, a.k.a., blacks, hispanics, , etc. This is a non-issue...we are all Americans (except for illegal aliens who don't have any rights under our constitution) so why the outcry. Sure didn't hear you whining when the Dems refused to debate on Fox News. The left is dividing this country, not the right.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pmJackie, I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but from what I've read and heard the vote has already been fixed - voter caging has been going for a while not, and scrubbing of the voter rolls is happening, and "poll" tax laws are being passed and upheld, and that's not even getting into the nightmares with the electronic voting machines. I'm pretty pessimistic about this election...I think the Dem is going to have to win by a landslide and I don't think that's going to happen (a la another "terrorist" attack or Bin Laden getting captured or invading Iran).
September 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pmTavis Smiley NAILS it.
Republicans have no respect for anyone but rich white men. Period.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pm#30 I never said I never watched or never attended! I had no choice as a child. Again, no choice. Neither did my parents because the government does not allow vouchers. So all the highly affluent parts of town receive the better schools while I had to attend one the military base was located.
Why can't a parent choice where their child attends school since they are paying taxes into the "public" school system? Does government know better?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:28 pmTake the "sharpshooter" test:
September 27th, 2007 at 3:31 pmAll caps means:
A. I'm passionate.
B. I'm a loon.
C. I'm a troll.
D. All of the above.
But it's perfectly OK to pander to special interest groups like the NRA, Focus on the Family, and other reich-wing bigots? Please ... you're not even in the ballpark here. Please go back and try something different. You're wasting everybody's time.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:32 pm#41 What poll tax? Having an identification so the pollsters can verify who you are! Maybe we should go with a ink blot on your hand or fingertip like Iraq. Oh yeah, then the political hacks will have buses loading people from other districts to vote in special elections since you cannot verify who they are.
It is 2008, and you cannot get an I.D.? Mark an X for your signature then.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:32 pmCaptainMantastic
That Fox is biased against anything that is not Republican is the reason that the Democratic canidates elected as a group not to participate in a debate on their network.
The four Repuplicans are ignoring the debate at Morgan because it would involve issues that they really dare not to answer honestly.
Remember the adage about how it is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt. In this case I suspect these four front runners know that they are uninformed or unconcerned about the issuses they might have to face at Morgan, so rather than chance letting their bigotry or racism slip out they decided to stay away.
The ironic thing is that any fundraising that they may accomplish (I'll bet they'll be watching PBS) certainly won't offset the cost to their legitimacy as presidential candidates they will incur by not attending.
It puts these Conservative Christians in a position where they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. LOL
September 27th, 2007 at 3:32 pmVendetta, see my earlier post to CaptainMantastic, as I can't be bothered to type it all out again.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pm#44 Why can’t a parent choice where their child attends school since they are paying taxes into the “public†school system? Does government know better?
Should be choose but I went to a government school.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pmWe the People need to be mindful of those that only are interested in representing some, not all the people.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pmReichies: Democrats debating on FAUX had about as much chance of a fair hearing as heretics had of being found innocent and set free by the Inquisition.
Give it up. It's bullshit - and I for one am very glad the Dems didn't waste their time with the FAUX Inquisition- er, I mean "debate."
September 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pmIn addition to the empty lecturn, there should a placard with the missing candidate's name and the reason why there are not appearing.
This is a snub of the highest magnitude.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pmWhy can’t a parent choice where their child attends school since they are paying taxes into the “public†school system? Does government know better?
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
I don't have any kids. Why do I have to pay for anyone's kid to go to school?
I figure as long as I'm paying for other people's kids to be educated, public school is where they belong. I don't want my taxes going to teach some else's kid right wing Christian theology.
And as long as I'm addressing your idiotic assumption that people get to choose where their tax dollars go, can I choose my tax dollars to not go to buy guns, bullets, tanks and other war machines?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pmMatt --
Always remember: "I before E except after C"
September 27th, 2007 at 3:36 pmRudy Giuliani, Mitt Romney, Fred Thompson, and Sen. John McCain — have all opted to ditch the debate
September 27th, 2007 at 3:37 pmDoes this mean they only want to be president to the white people?
madness is when you find 2 black guys who agree with you on something, then claim to "the same as" an advocate for every black person in the States. manipulation is when you try to get sympathy from others when someone calls bullsh*t on your madness.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:37 pm#49 Yet majority of the independent studies done about news shows that FOX new is the most central news source on television. It does slant slightly right on certain stories but it is the most neutral news source on television.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:37 pmI'm finding it difficult to have any sympathy for you at all...your parents did indeed have a choice - they could have sent you to a private school if they were that unhappy with the public school system. Whether they could afford the private school or not (there are always loans) they did have a choice and they made that choice. Don't act like the victim here ...
Also, PBS receives partial funding from the federal government; the rest comes from donations, corporate underwriting and grants. It is not a "government-run" program. Try thinking for yourself for a change and stop spouting reich-wing talking points. You really will feel better and it will liberate you! ;-)
September 27th, 2007 at 3:38 pmNote to those wondering why the Republithugs didn't show up:
See Bullworth:
"Angry black woman: Are you sayin' the Democratic Party don't care about the African-American community?
"Bullworth: Isn't that OBVIOUS? You got half your kids are out of work and the other half are in jail. Do you see ANY Democrat doing anything about it? Certainly not me! So what're you gonna do, vote Republican? Come on! Come on, you're not gonna vote Republican! Let's call a spade a spade!
"[Loud, angry booing]
"Bullworth: I mean - come on! You can have a Billion Man March! If you don't put down that malt liquor and chicken wings, and get behind someone other than a running back who stabs his wife, you're NEVER gonna get rid of somebody like me!"
Like any black people are gonna vote for Rooooooody or DroopyDog.
Prof.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pm..."the most neutral news source on television"...??
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!
Oh, that's rich.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:39 pmComment by sharpshooter — September 27, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Pandering to special interest groups if offensive to you?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/more-candidates-speak-to-the-nra/
September 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pmHow about a contest for the captions on signs to put on the empty podiums???
September 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pmWhy does this have to be said every time ... links please?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pmHow’s this any different from Democrats refusing to debate on Fox?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — September 27, 2007 @ 2:57 pm
The difference is that when Dems refuse to debate on a medium that is so tightly spun to the conservative end of the scale, all the wingnuts call them cowards. But when Repubs refuse to participate in a forum moderated by people not considered their safe base, they aren't. Will you condemn the Repubs as loudly and vehemently as you condemn the Dems for the same behavior?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pm#2..The difference is simple, african americans make up a huge voting block for Democrats. Democrats not showing up at a debate on the Fox News channel is no skin off the nose of latino and african american voters. Republican, Ken Melhman who use to be the head of the RNC, started an outreach program to bring more african americans into the republican party. Showing up at this debate shows the republicans do care about issues that effect Latino and african american voters. This just cements all those negative thoughts minorities have about the republican party. Can you say Harold Ford Ad?????
September 27th, 2007 at 3:41 pm#55 The parents are paying taxes too!
However, government does have the job to protect and secure the country from foreign as well as domestic invaders. That means guns, bullets, tanks. Sorry but you could request a Fair Tax so you can have more control on how much tax you contribute into the whole system.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:42 pmDo these candidates realize they are giving Ron Paul more time to talk?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pm#68 I totally agree! They should be chastised. Both parties.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pmRon Paul needs more time to talk. So perhaps is lunatic fringe will calm down. He needs to reel them in just a bit. They hurt his chances at any form of success.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:44 pmI am interested to see which Repub candidates DO show up. They should get a few extra points from the voters just for that.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pm#49 Yet majority of the independent studies done about news shows that FOX new is the most central news source on television. It does slant slightly right on certain stories but it is the most neutral news source on television.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
I have only heard about these "independent studies" from the righties. Do they really exist, or are they sort of like UFOs? Give us a link to even ONE.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:49 pmCarol, I think I might know what he's referring to. There was a study that came out in 2003 or 2004 stating Fox news was the most unbiased in its news reporting, specifically its reporting done by Reporters. It looked at postitive and negative stories about President Bush. Fox had the fewest negative stories ratio. The study also didn't consider on-air personalities, the non-reporters. Fox is rife with them. So O'Reilly and Hannity (and Colmes), etc, weren't considered.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:49 pm#61 so the government has "rights" to my parents' money and then the "right" to tell them this is the school your districted too since you live here and then the "right" to say if you don't like it get a loan to send your child to another school which you will have to probably pay off the rest of your life.
So do well, so you can get a scholarship to college because we will not be able to afford that, too?
Sounds like economic segregation to me! Let me take your money and redistribute it out to where government believes is best.
What makes government smarter with your money than you?
September 27th, 2007 at 3:50 pmIt was very clearly stated that the objection was Fox News, not the Congressional Black Caucus. If the debate was held anywhere else it would not be a problem. Is this something that you are genetically unable to understand? There have been several other Democratic debates that have been held:
April 26, 2007 - South Carolina State University - selected because it was a predominantly black college
June 28, 2007 - Howard University (Wash. DC) - selected because it is a predominantly black college
July 12, 2007 - Chicago, IL (held during the NAACP convention)
August 9, 2007 - Los Angeles, CA - hosted by LOGO - LGBT issues
September 9, 2007 - Coral Gables, FL - hosted by Univision (that's the Spanish-speaking channel in case you didn't know)
January 15, 2008 - upcoming debate held by Caucus of African-American Nevadans and Impacto in Las Vegas
Do I need to continue ... this is really too easy.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:50 pmANeccessaryEvil
If FOX is slanted slightly right then the Tower of Pisa is plumb! You must really be a fool to try and sell FOX as the most neutral source of news to anybody except your cousin/wife while she's cleaning your gun. Too bad your not in the Navy, anybody as far right as you would be wet.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:50 pmRon Paul, 2008.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:52 pmI have only heard about these “independent studies†from the righties. Do they really exist, or are they sort of like UFOs? Give us a link to even ONE.
Comment by missmolly — September 27, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
I am pretty sure I was abducted by one...
September 27th, 2007 at 3:52 pmNow, on the other hand, the only debates that even remotely parallel the Democratic ones are tonite's debate (which the frontrunners are not attending) and one in November which will be "simulcast on CNN en espanol". That is a riot. If you don't believe me here's the link to both debate rundowns:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_presidential_debates,_2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Presidential_Debates,_2008
Honestly, I found this in about 1 second.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pmAnd, one more thing - talk about pandering? What about all of the nonsensical focus on abortion, defense of marriage act, gun control and stem-cell research in every single Republican debate? That's not pandering to the "Values Voters" crew? Please ... these trolls are absolutely priceless when they accuse the Dems of "pandering" to the African-American and Latino communities.
September 27th, 2007 at 3:59 pmANeccessaryEvil
I will guess that you live where the cable provider has FNC about midway between the highest and lowest channel on the basic system. That is the only way FOX is a centrist in news delivery.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:00 pmst. Augustine,
Just like a left leaning lunatic to take an open forum of debate and turn it nasty! Debating over differences is American. You don't have to like it but at least be civilized. Is that all you have as a rebuttal? Attack the person and not the idea. And that gun may just save you one day.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:01 pmOf course, this was asked before, but when did Fox viewers become an ethnicity? This is a pretty ridiculous argument. It is truly you, sir, who has zero credibility here. Try again.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:02 pmSo who is centrist, St Augustine? This website sure isn't!
September 27th, 2007 at 4:02 pmmove to france they need you.
Comment by Vendetta — September 27, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
A 35hr work week and at least 5weeks of vacation. I'll consider it.
However, the last time I was in Paris, the French where not overly fond of my bastardization of their languange.
#70
So, if the parents are paying taxes, then they should have a choice.
Under that theory, since I'm paying taxes, I should get a choice. I should have as much of a right to dictate where someone else's kid goes to school as the parent of said kid. As long as I'm paying for it....
As for the guns and bombs, I was exaggerating. If it'll make you feel better, I'll buy you some fu(king bombs.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:03 pm#91 Then allow the parent to take the tax money they are paying into a failing school system and use it to go to the better school and pay the said difference if there is one.
When you pay for a service and you don't get what you pay for don't you want your money back or some kind a refund?
Why subject said children to a failing school system when they can go to a better one?
Is that not more cost effective for everyone?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:10 pmI don't need you to buy me anything. I am pretty self reliant. Not much on hand outs. Thanks, though!
September 27th, 2007 at 4:12 pm90 So who is centrist, St Augustine? This website sure isn’t!
Hello, dear - WE aren't claiming to be centrist. Unlike FUX.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:15 pmCarol, I think I might know what he’s referring to. There was a study that came out in 2003 or 2004 stating Fox news was the most unbiased in its news reporting, specifically its reporting done by Reporters. It looked at postitive and negative stories about President Bush. Fox had the fewest negative stories ratio. The study also didn’t consider on-air personalities, the non-reporters. Fox is rife with them. So O’Reilly and Hannity (and Colmes), etc, weren’t considered.
Comment by Wilco — September 27, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Waitaminnit -- the rationale for a "central" newscast means that Fox wins the trophy because it had the fewest negative stories about a man whose actions serve only the far right? It appears that "central" is a relative term. For example, if we used Adolph Hitler as the gauge, and assigned the "central" label to the news channel who had the most neutral positive/negative story ratio about him, most of us would find that ludicrous.
To truly deserve that "central" label, Fox would also have to show they presented the most neutral positive/negative story ratio about Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal. I don't think so.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:17 pmComment by ANeccessaryEvil
Do you think said family should have to pay more for their child to attend the nicer school since more than likely that district pays more in taxes?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:20 pmAlan Keyes is running for president! The well-known Republican announced on September 14 and he will be appearing at the Morgan State Debate tonight (and he's the only African-American GOP candidate). Why is the media ignoring him?
Fred Thompson - a zillion hours of coverage. Alan Keyes - 0.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:21 pmHello Leftside Annie,
Just because FOX news does not lean so far left does not mean it leans further right.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pmMissmolly, the idea would be if they were truly partisan, they'd have far more postitive stories than negative ones.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pmBut again, they didn't include commentators, who make up the entire primetime and much of the weekend lineup.
Whatever taxes are used to pay per student for each district should be paid by said parent.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pmDear NE -- Would you care for a refill on your Kool-Aid....?
If FUX leaned any further right, their "newscasters" would be wearing jackboots.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pmJust because FOX news does not lean so far left does not mean it leans further right.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
You'll never sell that line of tripe to people who have been paying attention. Wander over to News Hounds some time and read through the archives. FoxNews is a propaganda channel, plain and simple. Even Bart Simpson figured that out!
September 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pmWhatever taxes are used to pay per student for each district should be paid by said parent.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil
So people without kids shouldn't have their tax dollars going into the schools?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:28 pmANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
The only way your gun could save me would be for it to discharge while aimed at your head. One less believer in FOX as a ligitimate news source and the whole universe is better off.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:29 pm#92
First by taking money from the public school system, you send it into a downward spiral. With less students, there is less money. With less money there are less teachers.
second,vouchers tend to benefit the rich, the right wingers, and the religious. Rich people can already afford to send their kids to "better" schools, so a voucher is nothing more than a tax credit for them. The right wingers and religous will send their kids to religious type schools, ensuring the kids are taught from the bible. Creationism will be taught instead of evolution. Global warming will be taught to be fiction. etc. etc. President Bush will be taught to be not retarded.
Third, If the kids that are taken out of the public school are sent to a PRIVATE school, there is no public accountability of the private school.
Fourth, if kids are sent to a religous school with tax payer money, the state is now supporting religion. there needs to be a separation of church and state.
Fifth, what if someone wants to send their kid to a private school and the private school says "no" Do you want the gov't to step in and force the private school to accept the kid who is now no longer in public school?
sixth, the kids of the poor are punished. The rich have the ability to bridge the gap between the voucher money and the cost of tuition. Poor kids don't so poor kids get stuck where they're at.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:33 pmSt Augustine,
Again, such hate and wickedness. You give fair minded liberals a bad name. Give yourself a hug.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:35 pm"sixth, the kids of the poor are punished"
I think this is really what it comes down to. As many people who can get their kids out of crappy school districts will, which will mean shutting down schools. Which also means that local economy suffers as families won't move in and any single people will move out upon deciding to have families.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:43 pmEast Cleveland would be decimated.
Missmolly, the idea would be if they were truly partisan, they’d have far more postitive stories than negative ones.
But again, they didn’t include commentators, who make up the entire primetime and much of the weekend lineup.
Comment by Wilco — September 27, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
You have a point -- I'm sure this study only considered straight newscasts. That alone would skew the results, since straight newscasts make up only a small percentage of the programming.
However, even their "straight" newscasts are influenced by John Moody, Fox's senior editorial vice president, whose memos tell Fox reporters exactly how to spin the news.
Here's what Moody was doing in 2006:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750535/
Here's what Moody was telling them in 2004:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200407140002
Leaks of these memos don't occur on a regular basis, but you get the idea.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:44 pmWTF does the post have to do with public schools? How did the troll manage to so thoroughly derail the original discussion?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:45 pm109 - It indicates the depth of subconscious shame righties feel for being associated with a openly, racist political party.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pm#105 Our school systems are lacking in so many ways. We are the laughing stock around the world in math and science. Schools that have children graduating that cannot find China on a map. If a child is in that type of school system and you can get them out, should you not? Is that not just another form of child abuse?
I thought liberals always did what was best for the children but for some reason leaving them in a crappy school where the teachers must not be adequate enough to teach or perhaps they don't get the bad kids out that disturb the education process. Or is it a union thing?
And by the way, most of the failing schools are not attended by rich kids! They can afford to go to private schools. And the private schools don't have to follow any government standard but that of the parents and I believe most parents want their child to go to college and colleges do have high standards. Also, more people are home schooling, too. What about those standards? And guess what, majority of those children are doing much better than government taught students.
Just liberal bias progaganda, once again. Most of the failing schools are in poor areas and those parents don't have much of a voice because well, promises never kept to better the education and promises to give more money to the problem. Money taken from the parents they are promising it too by higher taxes.
Instead of "Father Knows Best", it is becoming more like "Fatherland Knows Best."
By the way, not all private schools are Christian, Hindu, or any other religion.
Change needs to happen. Why love government so much? Why trust government so much? Why not trust ourselves a little bit more?
Funny, how when I visit other issues on this website, how much you claim you do not trust the political system and government yet you love government run programs...sounds like a sick addiction...like heroin.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:53 pmWhatever taxes are used to pay per student for each district should be paid by said parent.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
Are you saying that only parents of school-age children should have to pay taxes that pay for the schools? That's basically telling parents they have to foot the bill for their children's entire education. If all parents could do that, all children would be in private schools now.
The reason that everybody pays for schools is that everybody benefits when children are educated. Joe Businessman may not have children of his own in school, but he benefits when there are people available to hire who know how to read and write. I don't have children in school, but I benefit by living in a society where clerks, police officers, doctors, and other skilled people I depend on were able to learn those skills built on a solid basic education I helped pay for.
September 27th, 2007 at 4:53 pmANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
I'm suprised that a right-winger would think acts of violence hateful. I personally do not desire to inflict bodily harm against anyone. Now, knowing there are right-wing nuts like you who want to blow away people who disagree with them or people who have something they covet, I would love for you to better the world by leaving it of your own accord.
XXX OOO
PS: do you ever fly through Minneapolis?
September 27th, 2007 at 4:57 pmThe topic is: "GOP Snubbing Of PBS Debate Is Part Of A ‘Pattern’ Of ‘Disrespect’ for ‘Black And Brown Americans’"
Comments by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:10 pm and September 27, 2007 @ 4:12 pm, are OFF TOPIC!
I called this to the attention of TP through the "Report Abuse" funciton.
I urge everyone who, like me, is tired of this troll's distractions to do the same!
The leading GOP candidates who are not attending the debate, DID NOT cite the UNFAIRNESS of the debate, as the Democratic candidates did about the FAUX NOISE inquisition, uh, I mean debate. Instead, they cited other commitments. If the trolls in here are correct, then the leading GOP candidates are lying (again!). You can't have it both ways!
September 27th, 2007 at 5:01 pmANeccessaryEvil
September 27th, 2007 at 5:05 pmThe problem in Cleveland is partly that school funding is tied to property taxes. Cleveland being a poor big city, schools don't get the funding they need to operate properly. It's not about teachers being bad at their jobs. It's about districts not having the funding available to properly improve their schools. And that's the case in the majority of underperforming school districts. Poor districts mean lower taxes to send to schools, mean higher crime rates, mean parents working longer hours and more jobs, which leads to less involvement in education, etc. You know the argument.
And then NCLB withholds funding to those schools, too.
It's a horrible circle of educational neglect.
Comment by hterrya
Please make sure you report everyone else to TP who participated in the discussion, too. We're just as guilty as he.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:07 pm111 - the gov't is ours. that's what democacies are for, and what our constitution prescribes. there is no viable substitute, nor would any thinking person want one. it is, in fact, within our power to correct bad governance, if only we can set aside the petty differences that interested parties keep putting under the national magnifying glass.
more democracy is the answer, not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
government is not "the" problem, or even "a" problem
mis-managed, corrupted government is a problem, and the way to solve it is not to kill the patient - it is to treat the disease.
unbridled self-interest and self-absorption are a sure way to do away with the idea of "humanity", and nothing else.
"libertarianism" is the congenitally malformed offspring of anarchy and self-absorption. pretenders to its mantle are, as someone else put so eloquently, merely republicans who own bongs, and those who see it as a solution to anything are merely shortsighted.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by hterrya — September 27, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
You're absolutely right, and I apologize for my getting sucked into a discussion about schools.
Regarding the presidential candidate forum on PBS -- there is a big difference between stating up front an objection regarding a debate's format, venue, general objectivity, etc. and weaseling out of a debate because you consider it a waste of time.
If the Repubs believe there to be something unfair about the Morgan State University forum, let them say so. If they are boycotting the debate as some kind of protest against the Dems refusing to appear on Fox, let them say so. But it sounds more like they just can't be bothered with people they consider unimportant.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:09 pm#116 - "...Please make sure you report everyone else to TP who participated in the discussion, too. We’re just as guilty as he."
Comment by Wilco — September 27, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I did. I reported YOURS, above! {:-)
September 27th, 2007 at 5:11 pmI see that no troll had an answer to my posts listing all of the debates that Dems have had which completely blows their "theory" (i.e., "well, the Dems did the same thing to Faux News - waaawaa") right out of the water (#80 through about 85). That's why they've derailed the thread. Figures...when faced with facts they run for the hills. WATB! ;-)
September 27th, 2007 at 5:13 pmhterrya,
I do believe both sides should have attend the respected debates. If either side cannot handle some tough questions from unfairness or FOX news then I don't want them running for President.
Never my the fact I dont care for any of them.
Oh, if you look back and see how the debate evolved into education then you would know why it happened.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:13 pmComment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
You pose your question as a very black/white debate. You say if the school is failing, pull the kid out of the failing school. You then criticize that if I don't pull the kid out of the school it is akin to child abuse.
Yet you fail to realize (or choose to ignore), if a school is failing then the school should be fixed. Its not black or white. You can't just write off the failing school.
You then note it is the poor who is punished by not allowing them to choose their school. Where are they to go? Most of America is rural - where is the child of a poor rural American suppossed to go? Its not as if there are an unlimited number of schools just waiting for kids to show up on their doorstep?
And while not all private schools are religious, school vouchers do benefit the religious more so than the secular.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:16 pmhterrya — September 27, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Thanks for reminding us... but there is a measure of satisfaction in putting a rightwinger down after the years of abuse those of us who supported the troops but were opposed to the mission and the administration's actions suffered.
I watch FNC to look for local advertisers that I contact about their ads being shown on FOX. I notice more slots being filled by the cable company's own ads, a symptom of not having paying customers.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:18 pmhterrya, I really hope you did. That's just weak of you. You never commented once before announcing you reported him. How upset you must be about that discussion, not having contributed one word to this entire thread.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:20 pmHow long should we wait for a failing school to get back on track? Four years so a graduating class leaves with inadequate education. And, of course, if you live somewhere with no other options then lets try to make it better but majority of this country lives within means of a better school. We can bus. We did it in the 60's.
All this is is another form of segregation but by districts?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:20 pmGovernment can affect people's lives positively by giving them a choice instead of taking their money and telling them, sorry, this is the best we can do for you.
Kin to telling a woman, sorry, you have no choice in this matter, have the child and let us educate it for you. You have no say. You can vote. But you still have no say.
"Don't follow Leaders, watch your parking meters" Bob Dylan.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:23 pmOnce again, if you cannot handle tough questions, you don't need to a leader.
They never even went on FOX to find out if they were going to get sandbagged.
And if they did the whole world would have seen it. Come on, all political candidates involved are just simply cowards! From Romney to Edward and all points in between.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:26 pmOh, if you look back and see how the debate evolved into education then you would know why it happened.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
I did. My comment still stands. And my "Report Abuse" comment to TP about YOU still stands.
If the Republicans did not attend the PBS debates for the same reason the Democrats did not attend the FAUX NOISE debates, and they didn't say so, they lied.
I contend that as a troll, you deliberately raised the Democratic refusal to attend a debate for reasons they honestly gave to the public, in order to EXCUSE the NeoCons for their inexcusable snubbing of the PBS debates and then LYING about it!
September 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pmWe can bus. We did it in the 60’s.
All this is is another form of segregation but by districts?
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
You'll note this isn't the arguement your presented originally. You'll note in you previously indicated:
"Then allow the parent to take the tax money they are paying into a failing school system and use it to go to the better school and pay the said difference if there is one."
Now your suggesting the government (whom you appear to detest) should pay for school vouchers AND bussing. Why do you want the gov't to bus kids away from schools to other schools, but you don't want the gov't to fix the original schools? At exactly what point do you want the government to cease their involvement?
September 27th, 2007 at 5:30 pmBy the way, the reasoning for the Republicans not to attend were scheduling conflicts. They were not worried about being sandbagged or treated with disrespect or being blindsided or any of that other vast right wing conspiracy thing that liberals materlize with "a willing suspension of disbelief."
September 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pmbig difference between "tough" questions and "loaded" questions. tose who've been around the block a couple of times can tell the difference.
declining a fox debate is more like declining a "daily show" debate than it is like declining a black or hispanic caucus debate.
another mountain reduced to the molehill it was in the first place.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pmTell what the requirement is for a failing school in your world? Busing can be part of the voucher the parent has paid for with their own money.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pmThe GOP hates black people, but everyone loves lumberjacks.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:35 pmAnecessary is obviously not a parent - those of us who are know full well that we're free to, encouraged to, go to the school and participate in many many ways. My wife is deeply involved at our kids' schools, and we've both had a free hand in discussions about curriculum, staff, calendar and everything else. not to mention it's really easy to get a seat on local school boards, whose meetings are frequent, and always open to the public.
That does not mean, however, that anyone can reasonably expect public schools to stop teaching real science, or strongarm them into teaching religious dogma, or make them cover up the realities of important public health and safety issues.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:37 pmTell what the requirement is for a failing school in your world? Busing can be part of the voucher the parent has paid for with their own money.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — September 27, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
You are still OFF TOPIC! I've reported you again. I will continue to do so, until you get ON TOPIC!
I AGAIN urge everyone who is sick of your deliberate attempts to scuttle this thread to do the same!
September 27th, 2007 at 5:38 pm# 140 - Comment by spit take — September 27, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
Sorry, spit take. I disagree.
As I have watched TP threads over a long period of time, I have seen trolls merrily take the discussion AWAY from the topic, where the INTENT of the NeoCons (NOT their deceptive FRAMING of the discussion) has been uncovered, and no one has called them on it.
I intend to continue to call them on it!
The four NeoCons who refused the invitation to debate, uncovered a NeoCon decision to ignore persons of color, because their core values are based on whipping up fear and loathing of these persons, in order to pander to their base.
We NEED to keep this thread on that TOPIC, in my opinion.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:53 pmComment by hterrya — September 27, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Damn dude,
No reason to get so worked up about it.
The neocons suck, everyone knows that. End of discussion.
September 27th, 2007 at 5:58 pmI'm always ready for a discussion of how GOPers and Righties are craven racists.
Harold Ford ad, Obama/Osama jokes, specious "is he black enough" questions, Macaca, Willie Horton, Jim Crow then, Jim Crow now, voter purges, push polls - and those are just the examples at the tip of my tongue - there are so many more I'd be happy to talk about with everyone.
Did anyone know that fmr. Chief Justice Rehnquist got his start as a GOP lackey in Phoenix, challenging Latino voters at polling places in Latino districts and neighborhoods? - Well, he did.
September 27th, 2007 at 6:11 pm"...The neocons suck, everyone knows that. End of discussion."
Comment by dim wit — September 27, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
By "everyone," I asssume you DON'T mean CaptainMantastic, ANeccessaryEvil, and Vendetta, right?
September 27th, 2007 at 6:25 pmHow do you spell coward?
R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N
September 27th, 2007 at 6:48 pmBy “everyone,†I asssume you DON’T mean CaptainMantastic, ANeccessaryEvil, and Vendetta, right?
Comment by hterrya — September 27, 2007 @ 6:25 pm
They're nobodies.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:05 pmIt is all partisianship. The side that prefers the most handouts side with the liberal Dems. Lets raise taxes and give it to the poor. Lets raise taxes and redistribute the wealth. What's the difference of a poor man putting a guy to a man's head and taking his hard earned money and the government making his pay excessive taxes or going to jail?
Too many entitlements is what makes this country weaker. Taking it out if the hands of the individual and giving it to the purse of the elitist government.
REPORT THAT hyterra. Go cry to the powers that be just like a left winger to do.
As far as Minnepolis, there is government taking taxes to fix bridges.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:29 pmBoth sides are a sad case, but those who give up freedoms for more government intrusions are just as bad.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:30 pm#144 Your own left wing race pimp Jesse Jackson called Obama out questioning his race.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:33 pmand the Gross Oversimplification Award goes to....................................
ANecessaryEvil!!!!!!
Congratulations, you've won a FREE!!! Library card. Use it to spend the next 18-24 months in the History section, then come on back.
September 27th, 2007 at 7:34 pmI find it interesting the names our rightwingwrs have chosen as their screen names:
ANecessaryEvil, do you really feel it is your duty, as a republican, to be evil?
CaptainMantastic, is this name to overcome the insecurities that pervade your life, you think your someone of importance, a Captain, and that you are a fantastic man?
Vendetta, are you just itching to get into it with a left-wing hardliner, ready to retaliate against imagined attack on your person?
September 27th, 2007 at 8:00 pmI know that if I keep practicing denigrating bloggers like ANecessaryEvil, I just know that someday I'll be as disgusting as O'Rielly when he denigrates blacks, jews, hispanics, Iraqis, democrates, etc., etc., etc.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:15 pm154 - it'll actually make you someone who fought back, rather than someone who got bulldozed into a hole. it won't make you a racist, or a liar, or an apologist for same.
September 27th, 2007 at 8:27 pmBack to the topic, Re: Leading Republican candidates refusing to attend debate on minority issues.
I think I see a very sinister Republican/Neocon strategy for the 2008 election cycle, of which this 'failure to debate' is part. This is a Rovian manipulation to the core. The Republicans are writing off the minority vote entirely for this election cycle. It has always been a burden for them, anyway.
Combine this neglect with the CONTINUED (minority) voter suppression activity under the guise of guarding against voter fraud; caging and implementation of voter ID laws. Also the evisceration of the DOJ Civil Rights division by Republican political operatives and appointment of the primary political operative to the Federal Elections Commission. Of course we can't forget the continued flaws in voting machine systems that have no paper trails so that precinct votes cannot be confirmed, verified or effectively contested. And, a court system that now intervenes in elections on behalf of the Republican Party.
The Republicans/Neocons have had seven years to rig the system and they have taken every advantage. If the Democrats think the 2008 election is going to be easy or fair, they need to get their heads out of their asses.
This presidential election is going to be a challenge to Democrats, the election process and to our Democracy and the Constitution.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:28 pmThe Republican Party should just be honest, and change their moniker from GOP, to KKK.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:26 pm