ThinkFast: September 28, 2007
ThinkFast: September 28, 2007
The decision by the four leading frontrunners for the GOP presidential nomination to skip last night’s debate that focused on issues related to people of color elicited outrage from the rest of the field. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee said he was “embarrassed,” and Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) said the absence of the leading candidates was a “disgrace.”
A partisan power-grab by some conservatives to apportion California’s electoral votes has run out of money. The LAT reports “the proposal to change the winner-take-all electoral vote allocation to one by congressional district is virtually dead with the resignation of key supporters, internal disputes and a lack of funds.”
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki rejected a U.S. Senate proposal calling for the partitioning of Iraq. “Iraqis are eager for Iraq’s unity. … Dividing Iraq is a problem and a decision like that would be a catastrophe,” he said.
One of members of the Jena 6 — Mychal Bell — “was released on bail on Thursday, a week after the case drew thousands of protesters to the small town in the central part of the state.” The Jena district attorney announced that “he would not seek to maintain adult charges against the teenager.”
An initial State Department report on a Sept. 16 shootout in Baghdad involving Blackwater USA says the private security contractors were “ambushed near the traffic circle and returned fire before fleeing the scene,” a depiction of events that contradicts Iraqi findings. Separately, State has confirmed that Blackwater personnel have been involved in 56 shootings while guarding U.S. officals this past year.
The State Department said yesterday that “the first American oil contract in Iraq,” between the Hunt Oil Company and the Kurdistan Regional Government,” is counterproductive towards the U.S. goal of “strengthening the country’s central government.”
“Fourteen “high-value” terrorism suspects who were transferred to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, from secret CIA prisons last year have been formally offered the right to request lawyers, a move that could allow them to join other detainees in challenging their status as enemy combatants in a U.S. appellate court.”
“It’s a lonely U.S. Senate for Larry Craig, whose uncertain status has upset his social and political standing in the clubby chamber.” McClatchy newspapers observed Craig’s interactions with his colleagues: “[He] mostly moved stiffly through their ranks without engaging much in the easy jocularity and bipartisan banter that go on throughout the day.”
And finally: Scooter Libby’s prison pseudonym lives on. In the season premiere of NBC’s My Name Is Earl last night, the show opened with Earl talking about his life in prison. He then mentioned that for the next two years, he’d be known as inmate 28301-016 — the same number that the Bureau of Prisons issued to “Scooter” Libby.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki rejected a U.S. Senate proposal calling for the partitioning of Iraq.
Just exactly where do we get off telling Iraq how to run their country. Do we think we own them or something? Just because we are occupying their country DOES NOT mean we own them or have the right to tell them what to do. It’s no wonder they hate us. I’d hate us if I was an Iraqi.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:14 amOf course we’re not telling Iraq what to do. We’re just suggesting that they hand over all of their oil to us so that nobody gets hurt.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:17 amAn initial State Department report on a Sept. 16 shootout in Baghdad involving Blackwater USA says the private security contractors were “ambushed near the traffic circle and returned fire before fleeing the scene,†a depiction of events that contradicts Iraqi findings.
But, but, if our State Department says it, it must be true. They wouldn’t lie to us, would they? Oh, yea…nevermind, they have lied to us numerous times already. Besides, if Blackwater was not at fault, why is the Bush Administration telling them not to cooperate with Congress in their investigation of the incident.
It’s no wonder the people in Iraq hate us. We allow 56 incidents of Blackwater shooting their people without ever investigating or doing something about it.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:17 amI was under the impression the Kurdish part of the country was the only place where things were going well.
My bad… that must be WHY BushCo is upset about their oil deal.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:17 amNever thought I would be agreeing with Huckabee and Brownback, but in this case, they are absolutely right. I still don’t agree with them on the issues, but they get points in my book for showing up and condemning their fellow Repubs who didn’t.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:19 amThe State Department said yesterday that “the first American oil contract in Iraq,†between the Hunt Oil Company and the Kurdistan Regional Government,†is counterproductive towards the U.S. goal of “strengthening the country’s central government.â€
Of course it is counterproductive, because it gets in the way of our government grabbing a huge portion of Iraq’s oil revenues. If the various oil rich areas start negotiating their own deals, Bush won’t be able to grab all the goodies for his cohorts in crime.
Why don’t the get it. IT’S THEIR COUNTRY, for gods sake and they have the right to do what they want with their natural resources.
No wonder the Iraqi’s hate us.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:20 amGood Morning, Proud Liberals:
September 28th, 2007 at 9:21 amhttp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07269/820479-35.stm
Fourteen “high-value†terrorism suspects who were transferred to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, from secret CIA prisons last year have been formally offered the right to request lawyers….
My, how generous of them. This is something we should have done right from the start. If these people are guilty of crimes, then our government should prove it or they should let them go.
No wonder the rest of the world hates us. We have become the greatest human-rights violators in the world.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:22 amThe State Department is lying to protect Blackwater and is complicit with its war crimes.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:26 amSo I watched some of the debate. There were some hilarious moments.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:26 amLike when Keyes suggested the big hitters didn’t show because they didn’t want to debate HIM.
And Duncan Hunter stated he supports the death penalty as a deterrant for the next Charlie Manson who’s about to pull the trigger….
I lost it. Charlie Manson neither pulled any trigger nor got the death penalty.
“It’s a lonely U.S. Senate for Larry Craig, whose uncertain status has upset his social and political standing in the clubby chamber.â€
His Republican buddies are now afraid that he has really been hitting on them all along and they just didn’t recognize it. This guy is an embarrassment. But I’m happy to see him stay in Congress. His presence is a daily reminder of the corruption of the “family values” party.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:30 amMorning, all.
As many of you recall, a few days ago on 9/25 TP posted a video showing TN Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R) being interviewed by David Shuster on Tucker’s show. During the interview, David asked Marsha if she knew the name of the latest solder from her district who was killed. She did not. Someone posted a link to her web site that had a poll on the “surge.” I was curious as to whether or not she still had the poll on the site and what the current results were. Check the results from 9/25, and the results today, which I have posted below:
9/25 11:58am
The surge is working - give it more time 4.62 % (93)
It’s too early to tell - wait and see 0.74 % (15)
Not enough progress - begin troop withdrawal 5.86 % (118)
It’s a failure - pull the troops out now 88.78 % (1789)
9/28 9:11am
The surge is working - give it more time 46.45 % (5355)
It’s too early to tell - wait and see 0.17 % (20)
Not enough progress - begin troop withdrawal 1.59 % (183)
It’s a failure - pull the troops out now 51.79 % (5970)
Notice the huge jump in votes for “the surge is working”? Surely Marsha or any of her supporters wouldn’t be engaging in any type of, er, “get out the vote” type of work. The two options in the middle have received only 70 additional votes since then. Just sayin’.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:30 amComment by missmolly — September 28, 2007 @ 9:19 am
I think you’re giving Hucakbee & Brownback too much credit. By their fellow republicans not showing up to this highly publicized debate, Huckabee and Brownback were assured media coverage. By criticizing those who didn’t show up, they rewarded with a soundbite by the MSM.
If either Brownback or Huckabee were a top tier candidate, they wouldn’t have shown up either.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:30 ammissmolly, they both have a few fairly progressive positions, surprisingly.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:33 amNo reason to actually vote for them for the presidency, though.
“A partisan power-grab by some conservatives to apportion California’s electoral votes has run out of money.”
——————————————
There probably aren’t too many people who abhor the Electoral College system and the “winner take all” aspect of it more than I do. It’s unfair, it disenfranchises everybody who votes red in a blue state and vice versa, and (as we saw in 2000), it doesn’t necessarily mean the candidate with the most votes gets the prize.
The question is, how can the Electoral College be abolished successfully? A constitutional amendment won’t work, because it would take 38 states to ratify — and that would require small states to surrender the power they enjoy now with a greater votes-to-people ratio than the large states.
Individual states, particularly large ones, won’t voluntarily give up their “winner take all” impact easily. It doesn’t matter if it’s a blue state like NY or CA, or a red state like TX — the party in power will do their utmost to squelch any attempt by the other party to apportion the electoral votes. There are a couple of states that have switched to an apportioning system, but they are small states unlikely to tip an election. Remember that BOTH parties value political power far more than fairness to the people, and that’s unlikely to change.
We have smart people who post here at TP, so I offer this interesting challenge to you all. How would you fix the Electoral College system of electing presidents? I expect some creative solutions. If nothing else, they should make for interesting reading.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:35 amAnd if not for free speech, you wouldn’t have Rush Limpwad to get your world view from, Bigpoot!
September 28th, 2007 at 9:36 amhttp://www.nytimes.com/ aponline/ world/ AP-Iraq-Soldier-Trial.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
This is what is wrong with our military. Why was the Sargent not charged also? Why was the soldier deemed responsible for following the orders of his Sargent?
After the killing, Flores said Staff Sgt. Michael Hensley of Candler, N.C., told him to place a spool of detonation wire on the body and in the man’s pocket.
So they found him guilty of planting evidence on the dead man, AT THE ORDERS OF HIS SARGENT.
Our military is hopelessly broken. In civilian life if a mob boss orders a hit, our government goes after the mob boss along with the hit man. Why is it not the same in the military. Because that’s what happened here, the Sargent was the mob boss.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:36 amrepublicans are a disease that should be eradicated like they want to eradicate…. wait for it (favorite con BUZZWORD)…. ISLAMOFACISTS.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:42 amAnd Duncan Hunter stated he supports the death penalty as a deterrant for the next Charlie Manson who’s about to pull the trigger….
I lost it. Charlie Manson neither pulled any trigger nor got the death penalty.
Comment by Wilco — September 28, 2007 @ 9:26 am
We often hear the righties talking about what a great deterrent capital punishment is, despite how often that premise has been debunked.
If capital punishment is such a great deterrent, then states like Texas and Florida (who execute more murderers than anybody else) should have the lowest murder rates in the country. They don’t.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:44 amNo wonder the rest of the world hates us. We have become the greatest human-rights violators in the world.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 28, 2007 @ 9:22 amâ€
1. They don’t.
2. They don’t, and we aren’t.
Since the Right Wing Loon OBigfootInMouth doesn’t get his news from anywhere but Faux Noise, I thought I would enlighten him (not that it will do any good):
No wonder the rest of the world hates us. We have become the greatest human-rights violators in the world.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 28, 2007 @ 9:22 amâ€
http://query.nytimes.com/ gst/ fullpage.html?res=9500EFDF1130F937A35755C0A9659C8B63&n=Top%2FReference%2FTimes%20Topics%2FOrganizations%2FP%2FPew%20Research%20Center
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12827.html
However, your constant repetetive lies about your own country are borderline, if not outright, treasonous.
Please link to any lie I have told about the United States. The people who are committing treason in this country are the people who are aiding and abetting in shredding our constitution and bankrupting our country with their warmongering.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:46 amBilbo @ 3,
“It’s no wonder the people in Iraq hate us. We allow 56 incidents of Blackwater shooting their people without ever investigating or doing something about it.”
Indeed, we designed the current laws in Iraq so that Blackwater would be accountable to no one. So, this disgusting situation is not only deeply offensive and immoral, but it was DESIGNED to be like this.
Furthermore, the neo-con have already used Blackwater to “provide security services” in New Orleans during Katrina, while the bodies of our citizens were floating in the flooded streets. And, they are working on new contracts in the event of other “national emergencies”, despite the laws preventing such things.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:46 amFan of Man
republicans are a disease that should be eradicated like they want to eradicate…. wait for it (favorite con BUZZWORD)…. ISLAMOFACISTS.
Thats a well thought out and reasoned argument you have there.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:47 amHas everyone heard of the military base we’re building in Iraq 5 miles from the Iranian border?
…..Border security has been essentially ignored since the US invasion of Iraq, but the establishment of the base at this time is also seen as targeting what the US claims are Iranian attempts to smuggle advanced arms to Iraqi insurgents. The Associated Press, however, concludes that it is likely to be a drop in the bucket when dealing with a 900-mile long border where smuggling is a centuries-old way of life.
….the US might seize on an accidental incident — ….such as a border skirmish between Iraq and Iran — as a casus belli.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:48 amYou should thank the Lord every day you have the benefit of free speech in the United States. Otherwise, you would have dissapeared by now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:30 am
You mean like being roughed up like a criminal and being charged with disturbing the peace simply because you are wearing a shirt with an anti-war message?
Or being spied upon by your own government simply because you are a member of an anti-war group?
Or a major telecommunications company asserting its right to turn over millions of phone records to the NSA, without a warrant, by stating it is a freedom of speech issue?
Or a political organization being denounced by members of both the Democratic and Republican party because they exercised their freedom of speech?
September 28th, 2007 at 9:49 am#14 - “You should thank the Lord every day you have the benefit of free speech in the United States.” Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:30 am
For now.
Pres. Bush, I’m sure, would be more than happy to extend the idea of “free speech zones” to the rest of the US, and not just to areas that are out of his sight.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:49 amal-Maliki’s statement: “Iraqis are eager for Iraq’s unity. … Dividing Iraq is a problem and a decision like that would be a catastrophe,†seems to put Duncan Hunter’s assured stance on the efficacy of carving up Iraq into enclaves into some doubt.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:50 amThey were concerned that the high-calorie, fatty, delicious treats would worsen some of the seniors’ health problems. They did it for the seniors.
Comment by ron — September 28, 2007
Right Wing Loon ron seems to have a problem with our government trying to help seniors live a more healthy life. I wonder why that is. Why do you hate seniors loon?
September 28th, 2007 at 9:52 amI’m sure there are many reasons the GOP isn’t touching minority debates… I’m also sure one of the big reasons is that they’re scared to death of having to address New Orleans and Katrina relief.
Whether that means pledging time, energy, and money to the issue, or having to be critical of Bush’s handling of the disaster… they’re just not going to go there.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:53 amConvicted cold-blooded murderers do not deserve to get housed, clothed, and fed for the rest of their lives with the rest of us paying for it. Cold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizen
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Right Wing Loon OBigFootInMouth seems to believe that every convicted murderer actually committed the crime. So, how many convicted murderers have been exonerated on DNA evidence? How many of them would have been executed without new scientific procedures proving their innocence? OBigFootInMouth supports executing innocent people. Just another “compassionate conservative”.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:55 amI see FOX is on its left Anti-christianity act, again, the Folsom fair is sponsored by Miller beer, owned by Phillip-Morris/Altria [A right wing company with ties to (R) Blount and Abigail Perlman/Lobbyist] which sold Miller to an African company in 2002. Personally I have never liked Miller beer, so FOX can take its idiotic spin and place it where the sun dont shine.
The 2007 Folsom Street Fair It’s the biggest and baddest fetish fair fundraiser in the world! The 2007 Folsom Street Fair promises to be a day of fun, fetish and fundraising.
Nice Try FOX and right corporate wing alliances, but this is your anti-christian mess, deal with it.
September 28th, 2007 at 9:56 amConvicted cold-blooded murderers do not deserve to get housed, clothed, and fed for the rest of their lives with the rest of us paying for it. Cold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizen -Comment by O. Bigfoot
Maybe we should deport the drug addicts to commie Cuba with Lush Dimbulb?
September 28th, 2007 at 9:58 amComment by bilbobaggins — September 28, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Ahhhh…but remember, Republicans dismiss any poll only when it does not support their way of thought.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:00 amConvicted cold-blooded murderers do not deserve to get housed, clothed, and fed for the rest of their lives with the rest of us paying for it. Cold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:49 am
I agree with you whole-heartedly that “cold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens”. When someone commits a crime of that horrible magnitude, they deserve to be cut off from society forever. I am a firm believer in life-without-parole for that very reason.
However, I don’t know if you realize that it’s actually more expensive to put a murderer to death than to take care of him/her in the prison system for the rest of their life — often millions more.
A Duke University study found… “The death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per execution over the costs of a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of imprisonment for life.” ( The costs of processing murder cases in North Carolina / Philip J. Cook, Donna B. Slawson ; with the assistance of Lori A. Gries. [Durham, NC] : Terry Sanford Institute of Public Policy, Duke University, 1993.)
“The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level.” (Sacramento Bee, March 18, 1988).
“A 1991 study of the Texas criminal justice system estimated the cost of appealing capital murder at $2,316,655. In contrast, the cost of housing a prisoner in a Texas maximum security prison single cell for 40 years is estimated at $750,000.” (Punishment and the Death Penalty, edited by Robert M. Baird and Stuart E. Rosenbaum 1995 p.109 )
“Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty from 1973 to 1988 to achieve 18 executions - that is an average of $3.2 million per execution.”
(Miami Herald, July 10, 1988).
“Florida calculated that each execution there costs some $3.18 million. If incarceration is estimated to cost $17000/year, a comparable statistic for life in prison of 40 years would be $680,000.”
(The Geography of Execution… The Capital Punishment Quagmire in America, Keith Harries and Derral Cheatwood 1997 p.6)
Figures from the General Accounting Office are close to these results. Total annual costs for all U.S. Prisons, State and Federal, was $17.7 billion in 1994 along with a total prison population of 1.1 million inmates. That amounts to $16100 per inmate/year.
(GOA report and testimony FY-97 GGD-97-15 )
Granted, these figures are old, but I doubt they have changed much since these studies were done.
You still claim that capital punishment is a deterrent, despite no evidence to back that up.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:01 amCold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Which is why they’re in prison. Are you also one of those guys who think convicted killers shouldn’t have rights to appeal? That people are allowed to live just too darn long?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:01 amThe State Department said yesterday that “the first American oil contract in Iraq,†between the Hunt Oil Company is counterproductive towards the U.S. goal of “strengthening the country’s central government.â€
Well of course it is. Typical rightwingers, money before life.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:02 amhttp://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/20047.html
The true story about Blackwater, not the State Department/Washington Post whitewashed version.
Very scary. And when I think that these people will one day be walking the streets of America, I shudder to think what is going to happen.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:04 amThe key point to Bigfoots post: “the rest of us paying for it”
And whos paying for the deadly mess in Iraq, not to mention secret prisons?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:05 amI’m embarrassed for you , bilbo. You have the right to hate your own country as much as you like, however misguided you may be. However, your constant repetetive lies about your own country are borderline, if not outright, treasonous.
You should thank the Lord every day you have the benefit of free speech in the United States. Otherwise, you would have dissapeared by now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:30 am
This post has just put bigfoot guy over the top as a total Head-in-the-sand Repug! And it points out his lack of exposure in the rest of the world. I travel a lot to Europe and to Central and South America, and I can tell you without a doubt, we are not only hated, but now we are pitied, as citizens of a Fascist state. I had several people in Prague tell me they think things here are in some ways worse for us than it was for them under the Communist regime they lived under. Maybe extreme comments, but it shows what is REALLY going on outside of our borders. Maybe bigfoot guy and jake and jason should watch more BBC and less Faux NoNooz, if they want a truer picture of reality.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:07 amBTW, what happened to Mr. Pee. I haven’t seen him post since they started registration. Did they not allow him to have an account? Or did he decide to go elsewhere because his Sybil personality couldn’t function under the new registration system?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:10 amMr. Pee was banned from TP about a week before registration started.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:11 amHe tried to get on using a variety of monikers but was found out and kicked off.
Or being tasered at a John Kerry speech?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Wow, Right Wing Loon OBigFootInMouth is on the right side for once. He thinks it was wrong for the student to be tasered.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:12 amAs much as you want to discuss the Republican debates, where is the discussion regarding the Dems, who have no retreated from retreat, and won’t even pull troops out of Iraq by 2013, as stated in the Dem debate?
I don’t expect an answer, just want to keep reminding you that Dems will say anything to get elected, then do anything to hold power. Netrooters would be far more influential if, for even one election cycle, ran your own candidates under a Progressive Party banner. Otherwise, just as with the black community, you will be ignored and taken for granted.
On a lighter note, that episode of Earl was really good. Was that Ben Foster in that episode? He’s really good in 3:10 to Yuma. The Office also had some good gags, but wasn’t as good as Earl.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:12 amHistorically, many “anti-war†groups were in reality fronts for subversive activist organizations, many with influences from outside of the United States. -Big A-(O)
Coveniently you forget the outside influence that started the quagmire such as Chalabi.
With all the modern technology and wire-tapping going on, why aren’t we seeing arrests for such a thing? Because its not true.
The majority of Americans want to get out of the quagmire in Iraq and its not due to influences outside the US. Americas have never liked long drawn out wars. Besides that this is a UN/US police action to enforce resolutions IE outside influences.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:12 amMr. Pee was banned from TP about a week before registration started.
He tried to get on using a variety of monikers but was found out and kicked off.
Comment by Wilco
Cool, I guess that means they are operating off of an IP address rather than an e-mail address. But, I’m not sure they are doing that for registration. It would be nice if they are, so that when they get sick and tired of Jake the “Liar” Flake’s inane posts, they can permanently ban him too.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:13 amThe key point to Bigfoots post: “the rest of us paying for itâ€
And whos paying for the deadly mess in Iraq, not to mention secret prisons?
Comment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:05 am
I thought China was?
But you raise an excellent point — one that was showcased recently when Bush squealed with pain over $22 billion being spent on refurbishing decaying domestic programs, but had no problem with $200 billion a year being spent on our occupation of Iraq — even though our rapidly accruing debt will be borne by our children and grandchildren for some time to come.
The Repubs have no ceiling on spending when it comes to killing people (war, capital punishment, etc.), but seem to have major problems with price tags when it comes to taking care of people (health care, infrastructure, etc.). Why is this?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:14 amCold-blooded murderers have forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens. Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:49 am
This is precisely why, Bigfootball, Bush and Cheney must be sent to Guantanamo IMMEDIATELY — because at the moment, they’re responsible for the cold-blooded murder of thousands of Iraqi civilians and American soldiers, and have therefore, under your admitted position, forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:15 amAs much as you want to discuss the Republican debates, where is the discussion regarding the Dems, who have no retreated from retreat, and won’t even pull troops out of Iraq by 2013, as stated in the Dem debate? Comment by Jason M. Hendler
Well, Right Wing Loon Jason, I personally don’t have a problem with their nuanced responses. They are correct in the fact that they have no idea what they will be walking into when they get into the oval office. They may need to keep a small contingent of troops there to protect American lives.
That being said, I agree with Kucinich in that he will simply remove the American influence from Iraq including the obscene Embassy and the permanent military bases. We have no right to be in Iraq and we have no right to their natural resources. So, the only just and moral thing to do would be to bring all Americans home and allow the Iraqi’s to determine their own fate.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:18 amA restaurant with a dress code is a private establishment. A rally paid for with public funds should be open to all citizens.
Like the Quakers? I think you’re going to need to back this assertion up with a little evidence.
If you’ve got nothing to hide, why are you using a pseudonym to post here? Everyone is entitled to privacy and to expect that what they think is private is indeed private.
Admittedly, that was a big waste of time. A publicity stunt by the Repubs to avoid facing real issues. Do you really approve of using your tax dollars to pay for this sort of meaningless activity?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:18 am…have no retreated from retreat, and won’t even pull troops out of Iraq by 2013, as stated in the Dem debate? -JMH
Most likely its due to the size of the mess created by the current admins lack of foreign policy and stay the course strategy with no exit plan.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:18 amMr. Hendler, you are missinformed. The last Democratic debate did discuss withdrawl. There were differences in the timeframe but withdrawl discussed.
No retreat was discussed. Why do you confuse them?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:21 amI thought China was? -Missmolly
Loans still have to be paid back, I’m pretty sure Big (O) approves of the debt his children, even if unborn, will be brought to bear because of right wing fiscal mismanagement.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:21 amComment by O. Bigfoot
So what do you think of free speech zones set up during political events by Bush? Isnt that curtailing free speech?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:25 amThankful he was merely tasered. Wow. Even after you say the force was probably excessive.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:26 amWhy does the right never talk about Afghanistan? Is it like the pilonidal cyst they dont want to discuss?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:27 aminmate 28301-016 — the same number that the Bureau of Prisons issued to “Scooter†Libby.
Hilarious.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:29 amA partisan power-grab by some conservatives to apportion California’s electoral votes has run out of money.
The party of corruption out of money, how can this be….
September 28th, 2007 at 10:30 am*skritches head*
Comment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:30 am
That’s big news. Do you have a link?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:32 amLittlefoot sez:
Operative phrase being “in some countries”. America isn’t one of those countries - yet. Until recently, America wasn’t one of those countries in which you should be “thankful” to be “merely” tasered.
I love how these jackasses use the words “merely” and “tasered” in the same sentence. There’s nothing “mere” about getting hit with a taser. Anyone who says different has obviously never been through the experience.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:32 amWhy does the right never talk about Afghanistan? Is it like the pilonidal cyst they dont want to discuss?
Comment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Same reason they don’t want to discuss Osama bin Forgotten, I think.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:33 amTotal blather, Dogfather. Comment by O. Bigfoot
I agree its a bit over the top and it makes me wonder if its a parody post….
September 28th, 2007 at 10:34 amSame reason they don’t want to discuss Osama bin Forgotten, I think.
Comment by missmolly
They dont discuss as it would not be irrational and emotional Luntzian rhetoric if they did and they cant have the knee-jerk base running around screaming, “The Sky is not falling!!”
September 28th, 2007 at 10:38 amI thought China was? -Missmolly
Loans still have to be paid back, I’m pretty sure Big (O) approves of the debt his children, even if unborn, will be brought to bear because of right wing fiscal mismanagement.
Comment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:21 am
You’re right, and I should have indicated my “sarc/on” for that comment. My tongue in cheek remark was motivated by the view of our leaders that as long as we can get somebody to foot the bill, it doesn’t matter what kind of debt we run up. They conveniently forget that debts carry interest, and eventually have to be paid back.
Not only that, but it makes us beholden to a country we have some serious issues with. Not a comfortable position to be in.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:38 amComment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:30 am
That’s big news. Do you have a link?
Yes, its above ^^^in the think-fast thread ^^^
September 28th, 2007 at 10:42 amIt seems the possiblities you consider are rather limited, bigpoot…
September 28th, 2007 at 10:43 amhe would have been beaten into submission by the billy-club, right here in these United States. Which would you prefer? Comment by O. Bigfoot
The point is Big (O) that with that many campus police that force was not needed to restrain one college kid whose only weapon was a book.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:44 amWell what do you know it is linked above. skimmed right past it.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:46 am“This is precisely why, Bigfootball, Bush and Cheney must be sent to Guantanamo IMMEDIATELY — because at the moment, they’re responsible for the cold-blooded murder of thousands of Iraqi civilians and American soldiers, and have therefore, under your admitted position, forfeited their right to live in society with law-abiding citizens.
Comment by The Dogfather — September 28, 2007 @ 10:15 amâ€
Total blather, Dogfather.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:29 am
Never thought I would agree with Bigfoot, but I think Dogfather has misrepresented Bigfoot’s position.
From Bigfoot’s posts, I see that he is a firm supporter of capital punishment. I also see that he swallows the talking points in favor of it (even debunked ones) — it’s a deterrent, it saves us from supporting these killers for life, they deserve to die, etc.
I haven’t seen ANYWHERE that Bigfoot supports issuing the ultimate punishment WITHOUT A FAIR TRIAL. And this is the issue we have with Guantanamo — prisoners there incarcerated without any hope of release without counsel, without a trial, and without any rights of any kind.
There are about a gazillion ways to rebut Bigfoot on the capital punishment issue, but this wasn’t a good comparison.
It IS a good rebuttal if the discussion ever turns to enemy combatants, though — so save the text and repaste it when it’s time to compare enemy combatants with our warmongers.
September 28th, 2007 at 10:50 amLittlefoot sez:
False choice. There were several officers present, and prior to the tasering, they had successfully wrestled him to the floor and subdued him. One officer should have been adequate to arrest and control one mouthy college kid.
I’m not objecting to the tasering, Littlefoot…I’m objecting to the total lack of necessity for such an action. From your earlier post, it would seem as if you agree with me. What then, is your basis for declaring that “He should also be thankful that he was merely tasered”, (other than pure thuggishness on your part)?
September 28th, 2007 at 10:58 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Good news, Biggy!
You don’t have to wait. The dollar has just dropped to its lowest value to the Canadaian Loony in 31 years, Saudi and many of the OPEC countries are moving to the Euro for petro-based currency, the trade deficit and the total indebtedness of this country is higher than ALL the rest of the world and the largest surplus in our history was turned into the largest deficit in less than 5 years.
If your personal financial situation was like this, would you keep your financial manager in his/her job? HMMM!
September 28th, 2007 at 11:02 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Actually your **cough… cough** “rebuttal” is nonsense. This country has NEVER had a President run up deficits the size that Bush has. No one can know how this will ultimately affect the country down the road. As usual, yer full of it.
How are the Neuticalsâ„¢ workin’ out fer ya?
September 28th, 2007 at 11:02 amComment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:07 am
You are comparing a restaurant’s dress code to an individual wearing a t-shirt with “Bring the troops home” to a political event? No wonder people don’t take you seriously.
Historically, many “anti-war†groups were in reality fronts for subversive activist organizations, many with influences from outside of the United States. Law enforcement has a duty to monitor this.
Historically, as in which decade or century? “Historically,” bin Laden wanted to attack America, too, according to the infamous PDB; too bad Bush didn’t give it as much attention as the government does anti-war groups.
Turning over phone records did nothing to curail free speech…the conversations were not turned over, only the records of the calls.
Turning over phone records and then hiding behind free speech was a fcking excuse to do something illegal and not be held responsible. Freedom of speech is generally an issue when someone gives an opinion and is then told to shut up or is otherwise denounced for their opinion. Turning over phone records showing who I called, and when, cannot be equated with giving an opinion.
And nothing congress did towards decouncing the “political organization†curtailed that organization’s right to free speech. Congress has the right to free speech as well, which includes “denouncing†if they feel the need to.
Hold on there. Congress didn’t say they simply disagreed with MoveOn’s message in the ad. If a member of Congress wants to go on Fox Noise for 5 minutes and say they disagree with MoveOn’s message in the ad, and then state why we shouldn’t count deaths caused by a car bomb, or deaths caused by shooting someone in the forehead as well as in the head from behind, that’s fine. But at least one member of the Senate was ready to throw the organization out of the country. That goes a little bit farther than disagreeing with the ad. It’s also damn one-sided when that same group in Congress remains silent on Rush. Where is the Republican defense of the so-called “phony soldiers”??? Is Cornyn going to submit an amendment denouncing Rush Limbaugh? Hell no.
Perusing the Cornyn amendment, Gen. Petraeus’ credentials are laid out, and apparently he is not to be questioned by anyone for any reason. I certainly don’t see anything conceding MoveOn’s right to free speech or their right to question him. Read section B of the amendment; this went far beyond what MoveOn said about the general. For anyone to vote against this amendment, it was a vote against the men and women of the military, and you and I know that that is a bunch of B.S.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:06 amSo what do you think of free speech zones set up during political events by Bush? Isnt that curtailing free speech?
Comment by Xisithrus — September 28, 2007 @ 10:25 am
Sure it is. The effect of their free speech is reduced and diminished by being relocated miles away from a politician’s speech.
cur·tail /kərˈteɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
–verb (used with object)
to cut short; cut off a part of; abridge; reduce; diminish.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:09 amYou should thank the Lord every day you have the benefit of free speech in the United States. Otherwise, you would have dissapeared by now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 9:30 am
I don’t thank the “Lord” for anything. Sorry, but there has yet to be presented to mankind any evidence of any of the thousands upon thousands of deities mankind has attributed the turnings of the workings of the world to. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Sorry, but a couple of books, and some folks saying something is so absolutely does NOT make it so. The absolute arrogance in thinking that one mythology that is utterly unprovable is “right” while other, also unprovable mythologies are “wrong” is simply staggering. It is an insult to all of our ancestors who died worshipping what THEY believed in, which most assuredly differed from what WE (modern mankind) believes in. I certainly don’t thank the “Lord” for the benefit of free speech.
I do, however, thank our Founding Fathers, in their immense wisdom (yet flawed humanity as well). I thank all of the men and women who have sacrificed their precious little time, their collectively prodigious minds, and those who have spilt their lifeblood to keep the concept of free speech alive.
I thank those who work to maintain those freedoms by living up to the ideal of those freedoms, not those who roll over and give those liberties away for a little bit of (temporary) security.
I thank those who exhibit control over their fears, not those who give in to them.
I thank the brave men and women who stand up to tyranny when and where it happens, not those who cave in to authoritarians, or finally stand up only after it is too late.
I thank those who honor their oaths of office, and protect us from all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. Those who do not honor such oaths deserve nothing but my scorn.
I do not thank the “Lord” for anything. I’ll stick to thanking those who’ve actually earned my thanks.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:10 amI have heard for decades how the United States will be sorry for being beholden to this country or that for financial loans, and the hardships that will be placed upon our “childrenâ€. Well, I am one of those children upon whom those hardships would be placed. 45 years later, it hasn’t happened.
The whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Perhaps you don’t realize the price you are paying for our debt because you have become so used to it.
In fiscal year 2006, we (the United States government) paid $406 BILLION dollars in INTEREST on our national debt. That’s an average of about $1,333 for every man, woman, and child in our country — or well over $5,000 for a family of four (on average, of course — rich pay more, poor pay less). If we didn’t have this debt, we could be spending this money on something else, or lower taxes for everyone.
Your tax burden has included this interest for so long, no wonder you don’t think you are “suffering” — you’ve gotten accustomed to it. But I sure see it. And it’s getting worse.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:13 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Let me ask you another question:
I am making two assumption here; One, that you are married or have a live-in “Significant Other” and Two, that you are a member of NRA or a gun enthusiast.
If the above are correct, how would your “SO” react if you spent 31% of your total annual household income on guns and ammunition? And was running your household into debt and not able to afford the other basics for your family, such as insurance, medical care, proper food and education?
Would enjoy seeing your response.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:14 amIt’s a very sad day in Amerika when we have to ‘thank the Lord” that we’re ONLY getting tasered for daring to speak in public…
September 28th, 2007 at 11:19 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
You think they’ll just be able to walk away from the huge national debt being created by this administration? Don’t forget, the “conservatives” got rid of the option for individuals declaring bankruptcy and getting off scot-free. It’s even more true for an entire nation.
At some point, we’re all going to suffer, either through the collapse of the economy or an inability to maintain even the basic infrastructure of the country because of this debt. Your contention is ludicrous.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:26 amGreat post’s all…….Take a moment today and check out truthout.org…On site video interview with military who have chosen not to go back…..Blessings
September 28th, 2007 at 11:40 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Why do you think we are having to go to other sources (countries) to finance the spending that our government is doing? Could it be that the amount being spent on this “war,” not to mention other outlays, is far more than the tax revenues brought in from working Americans?
One war, with one country, is forecast to end up costing trillions of dollars. We’ve been fighting in Iraq for 4 1/2 years with no end in sight. Should we also decide to invade Iran, you can tack on another 5 to 10 years and another several trillion dollars.
You think the debt we owe can be paid off in 11 years, at the current tax rate, before my 7 year old daughter enters the work force? When do you expect the cost of this “war” to be paid for, and how?
September 28th, 2007 at 11:42 am#32 Right Wing Loon ron seems to have a problem with our government trying to help seniors live a more healthy life. I wonder why that is. Why do you hate seniors loon?
Whoa whoa whoa. The government most certainly does NOT have the authority to stop people from eating donuts. I completely agree with ron on this one. Since when is it the gov’ts job to make sure seniors eat healthy? I own my body, I decide what to put in it. I don’t need the gov’ts input. This is the definition of freedom.
~Sean
September 28th, 2007 at 11:43 am9/25 11:58am
The surge is working - give it more time 4.62 % (93)
It’s too early to tell - wait and see 0.74 % (15)
Not enough progress - begin troop withdrawal 5.86 % (118)
It’s a failure - pull the troops out now 88.78 % (1789)
9/28 9:11am
The surge is working - give it more time 46.45 % (5355)
It’s too early to tell - wait and see 0.17 % (20)
Not enough progress - begin troop withdrawal 1.59 % (183)
It’s a failure - pull the troops out now 51.79 % (5970)
——-
Brilliant! Ballot stuffing in action.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:45 amIf someone has committed a murder that is deserving of life imprisonment, they should get the death penalty. There should be no life imprisonment for murder.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Innocent people died from Bush’s torture policy (torture is illegal by US law, and the death penalty if someone dies from torture )
I hope you stick to your principles stated and support impeachment and trial for Bush and those who implimented his policy of torture.
What am I saying? You have no principles, because you are a hypocrite.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:54 amThe whole idea that our children will “suffer†for fiscal excess today is a false argument.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — September 28, 2007 @ 10:52 am
This has got to be the most ignorant statement you have ever posted here.
September 28th, 2007 at 11:58 amSheesh
Why do Maliki’s statements sound as dumb as the Cheerleader Prince’s? (my guess - same speechwriter)
Yes, Nouri, they are SO eager for “unity” they’re blowing each other up about it every chance they get.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:16 pm95 - I think there’s an IQ threshold for hypocrisy. Our trolls just jabber incoherently, parrotting things paid blowhards have said on their radios and televisions.
Hannity, Limbaugh et al = definitely hypocrites;
their dittoheads/parrots = animals with a capacity for mimicry, and nothing more.
September 28th, 2007 at 12:20 pmAn initial State Department report on a Sept. 16 shootout in Baghdad involving Blackwater USA says the private security contractors were “ambushed near the traffic circle and returned fire before fleeing the scene,†a depiction of events that contradicts Iraqi findings.
Huh? Just who did they ask, when the State Dept has said they can’t investigate properly in Iraq due to security concerns or some crap?
State: “Did you shoot those Iraqis?”
September 28th, 2007 at 12:48 pmBlackwater: “Uhh… no?”
State: “Good enough for me. Case closed”
Make your voice count, shame on them. Always ask yourself who owns the Lobby system, and where more emphasis needs to be put going forward to get your rights.
Who do you think won the All American Presidential forum debate at Baltimore’s Morgan State University? —-> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=604
.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:16 pmNotice how bigfoot throws out about a dozen comments and then can’t defend them? Seems to happen a lot.
September 28th, 2007 at 1:44 pmI don’t seel the placards I suggested for the empty podiums.
One might say “COWARD”
Another “CHICKENSHIT”
Yet another “AKSKEEERT”
And finally “GHOUL”
September 28th, 2007 at 1:59 pm101 - That’s why it’s called the “right wing noise machine”
it’s ok by me - the further they get those feet stuck in their mouths the better.
The public, and the next generation of voters, are watching.
September 28th, 2007 at 2:14 pmThe British are always on board. They’re American prostititutes
October 1st, 2007 at 5:26 am