Hersh: Bush’s Case For Hitting Iran Has ‘Shifted,’ Now Focused On ‘Surgical Strikes’ To ‘Sell’ It
Hersh: Bush’s Case For Hitting Iran Has ‘Shifted,’ Now Focused On ‘Surgical Strikes’ To ‘Sell’ It
Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker’s Pulitzer-Prize winning investigative journalist, writes in a new article entitled “Shifting Targets” that there has been “a significant increase in the tempo of attack planning” for war with Iran inside the Bush administration.
Most significantly, Hersh — who has been warning for months that the administration is seriously plotting for war with Iran — reports the administration has switched its rationale for war. The focus has shifted from a broad bombing attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities to “surgical” strikes again Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere.
On CNN’s Late Edition this morning, Hersh said the administration has adopted what it views as a rationale that can win over the public and international allies, while accomplishing its key objective of initiating a military conflict:
You can sell [this approach]. It’s more logical. You can say to people, the American people, we’re only hitting those people that we think are trying to hit our boys and the coalition forces. And so that seems to be more sensible. Because the White House thinks they can actually pitch this, this would actually work. In other words, you can do a bombing and not have the world scream at us and also get the British on board.
Watch it:
In his article, Hersh writes, “This summer, the White House, pushed by the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney, requested that the Joint Chiefs of Staff redraw long-standing plans for a possible attack on Iran,” emphasizing the shift in rationale. The “shifting emphasis” is “gathering support among generals and admirals in the Pentagon.”
Hersh also reveals:
During a secure videoconference that took place early this summer, the President told Ryan Crocker, the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, that he was thinking of hitting Iranian targets across the border and that the British “were on board.” At that point, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice interjected that there was a need to proceed carefully, because of the ongoing diplomatic track. Bush ended by instructing Crocker to tell Iran to stop interfering in Iraq or it would face American retribution.
The White House has even prepared a “Clinton did it too” defense for attacking Iran, according to Hersh. “If Democrats objected, the Administration could say, “Bill Clinton did the same thing; he conducted limited strikes in Afghanistan, the Sudan, and in Baghdad to protect American lives.”
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ThinkProgress would do well to give alittle history why the USA meddles in Iran for all these years.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:16 pmThe Bush administration has perfected the “Clinton did it too” foreign policy.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:18 pmYou can sell [this approach]. It’s more logical. You can say to people, the American people, we’re only hitting those people that we think are trying to hit our boys and the coalition forces. And so that seems to be more sensible.
It’s a pretty sad day in our history when our government needs to “sell” us death and destruction. And the operative words in the above quote are we think. We have no proof we just “think”. Well, I don’t think that America is going to buy it this time. We bought what this government “thought” was the truth with Iraq. I’m fairly sure the people in this country are going to want real proof this time before starting another war and possibly starting World War III.
I don’t care if they strike the supposed “nuclear facilities” or the Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities, it will still be invading another country who has not in any way threatened us. Even if they are helping the Shiites, who are we to tell them they can’t do that when we are not objecting to the Saudis financing the Sunnis?
September 30th, 2007 at 1:22 pmBush ended by instructing Crocker to tell Iran to stop interfering in Iraq or it would face American retribution.
So why isn’t Bush telling the Saudis to stop interfering in Iraq or face American retribution. Hypocritical and two-faced, that’s Bush.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:24 pmWhat it all boils down to is the Bushies are using the failure of their Iraq Invasion as a basis for realizing their long held goals of attacking Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:26 pmHow absurd is that?
In this context NOW, the alledged “godfather” of this stupidity, Norman Podhoretz, has been telling bubba that the US/ “w” and company:
“I urged Bush to take action against the Iranian nuclear facilities and explained why I thought there was no alternative,†…(from the Sunday London Times article by Sarah Baxter)…
WHO let these lunatics out???? Can we get them all back into Gitmo? Bubba INCLUDED???
September 30th, 2007 at 1:29 pmUh huh, precision, pin-prick strikes that take out strictly military targets and stand no chance of fomenting Iranian nationalism. Ahh, good plan! Oh, and if just one oil tanker gets sunk in the Straits of Hormuz you can expect oil to surge to $100/bbl range and above.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:29 pmThe scary thing is that the way things are right now, the bush-AIPAC junta could give the orders and the US Air Force would just execute another bombing run, a bit farther east.
The TV media would ALL get behind this, and the shills and paid propagandists would say that to anybody who criticizes this action that they are with the terrorists, anti semite, etc etc.
Spontaneous protests of 50,000+ in major cities, including Washingon, would get a 5 second treatment from the media.
Americans will begin reacting when their gasoline goes up to $6.50 nationwide average.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:30 pmSurgical Strikes? Sorry, I don’t trust the Surgeon. Can we have a second opinion?
September 30th, 2007 at 1:36 pmA lobotomy for Busch and Cheney is the surgery I’d recommend.
∞
September 30th, 2007 at 1:36 pmChristiane Amanpour’s “God’s Warriors” explores the vein of extremism that runs through all three Abrahamic faiths – Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Yes ALL three faiths have extremism.
The asshat in the WH and his right wing wacko Christian supporters are playing with fire if they strike Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:41 pmBush’s rationale, whether for invading Iraq or for attacking Iran, is like “the shifting, whispering sands”!
September 30th, 2007 at 1:44 pmAmericans will begin reacting when their gasoline goes up to $6.50 nationwide average.
Comment by timotheus
I wouldn’t count on that.
For one thing, as soon as gas goes to $6.50, the Reich will say ‘We HAVE to win in Iran and Iraq for prices to come down’.
∞
September 30th, 2007 at 1:45 pmAnyone who believes we can just “Bomb, bomb, Iran” and not end up in a ground war with them is just plain stupid.
And Bush thinks we are all stupid for trying to sell this to us.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:47 pmTP: “Most significantly, Hersh — who has been warning for months that the administration is seriously plotting for war with Iran-”
Better make that “warning for years.” I’ve believed in Sy Hersh since he broke the My Lai story…until he was wrong about the American attack on Iran planned for summer of 2005, then 2006. I’m sure BushCo wants to attack Iran, but it has become difficult for me to rely on this source’s predictions.
Running out of time may be a better predictor of Bush/Cheney plans.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:59 pm# 15: Vendetta:
That’s because they were dancing and prancing in their hearts.
∞
September 30th, 2007 at 2:02 pmThe problem with ’surgical strike’ appraoch is that Iran might not stop there after the strike, but instead Iran might continue to fight and escalate the war to a bigger one,by simply hitting Israel,or going to fight US troops inside Iraq.
The Japanese thought when they hit Pearl Harbor in WWII that the air attack on Pearl Harbor was a ’surgical strike’ to destroy our Pacific navy in Hawaii…but the war did not stop there.
Iran is not Afghanstan who was the poorest country on earth,with highest illiteracy on the planet,and was at the lower scale of every category,when it was attacked
When Baghdad and Sudan were attacked, they did not have the capabilities to strike back,but Iran does;and the comparison might be deceiving to think that what worked in Afghanstan might work again in Iran.
Baghdad did not have a naval power of any kind,or even sea shores ,other than 20 miles south of Iraq. But Iran is a bigger country and Iranians can easily control the entrance of Hormuz strait,something is part of their deterrent strategy.
Wars do not always end the way planners think,when put on paper.
Last year Israel thought,in few days they will crush the Hizbullah militias south Lebanon.
After 35 days and dropping bombs daily worth billions of dollars, and trying to move north few miles inside Lebanon ,it was very difficult.
We thought ourselves that Iraq war by now will be over…but war is not over after almost over 41/2 years.
Saddam though with his superior army he was able to crush Iranian army…but it did not happen..he fought Iranians from 1980 to 1988…he was helped by Russia and most Arab neigboring countries then, but he gave up.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:04 pmSo, surgical strike with a country like Iran can mean a bigger war only. The whole fiasco could lead to an economical disaster…It does not take a long time for the markets and gas stations to reflect on that,should there be an oil shortage.
With our currency is down and the deficit is mounting,another big war will put world economy and ours at critical point.
SMF
September 30th, 2007 at 2:06 pmShalom Mother F_____
SMF
September 30th, 2007 at 2:08 pmMy bad, I meant,
Shalom My Friend.
The Bush Gang has decided that the Democrats in Congress are so inept that an attack on Iran will have few if any downsides. Will the Democrats block funding for the war? Will the Democrats use their legislative majority to force Bush to back down? Will the Democrats stand united against this criminal Administration?
No.
This is why the Bush Gang feels safe in attacking another country despite the fact that the American People reject such a course of action. Even if citizens condemn the Bush Gang for their actions we cannot rely on the Democrats in Congress to reflect the will of most Americans.
Some of the blood soon to be shed in Iran will be on the hands of the Democrats in Congress.
I hope they think about that…
September 30th, 2007 at 2:17 pmIt’s time to give the Military the cover to say NO to an IRAN attack…
Start impeachment proceedings for both Cheney & Bush NOW!
September 30th, 2007 at 2:22 pmUh./.
War is war.
Bombing is bombing.
The straits of Hormuz closure signals the collapse of our economy.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:24 pmDuh.
I did not see Christians dancing in the streets whem we bombed Iraq.
Comment by Vendetta
But we did see the Iranians holding candlelight vigils in support of the US after 911.
The Fundamentalist Christians don’t “dance in the street”. But they do quietly rejoice in the killing and mayhem that has come from invading an unarmed nation. If God supports these ugly people, then I say to hell with God.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:25 pm“The focus has shifted from a broad bombing attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities to “surgical†strikes again Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere.”
Well, Congress declared The Revolutionary Guard–part of Iran’s military–a terorist organization. I guess they wanted to give Bush the go-ahead to strike Iran. Unbelieveable. Is the Democratic majority as uninformed as I they appear, or do they really want to go to war with Iran? Hillary was right on board with the Kyl-Lieberman resolution. She had to know the consequences.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:25 pmComment by alphainfinityomega — September 30, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
And you have evidence of this?
Comment by Vendetta
The evidence is in the fact that these so-called Christians still support our evil war-mongering president. What would Jesus think? Hopefully he would think that these people are evil and crazy and need to be dealt with. My bet is that they will be going to hell for their actions.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:28 pm“Today, the North Vietnamese have attack 2 of our ships in the Gulf of Tonkin. I have addressed Congress on the need to retaliate for this. Our retaliation has begun with the bombing of oil storage tanks at Vinh in North Vietnam…..”[to paraphrase]
Why am I getting a terrible deja vu here?
September 30th, 2007 at 2:33 pmi’ve got to consider this a huge success.
a year ago there were dozens of trolls, and some of them appeared to have greater than room temp iq’s. now we’re down to a half-dozen rotten-egg dittoheads, ramming their heads into the wall, obviously desperate for attention they can’t even get from their own kind. decent republicans have all Hagel-ed on out of town, not wanting to hang around the scene of the crime any longer, having accepted the fact that a nolo contendre plea is the best they’ll do when the court of Democracy convenes next November.
another round of hi-5’s to the TP regulars – a bunch that could rerstore hope for even the most hardcore of pessimists. i am proud to share citizenship with you.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:33 pmTalking about Iran is a welcomed distraction from the war we are already fighting in Iraq,by the war cabal.
So, what happend after Patraeus made his report?!!…nothing happened.
So, Lieberman came with this bill in the Senate shifting gears to attack Iran,and in no time..the whole issue of Iraq is forgotten and we are talking now Iran, instead,and Bush got his money for Iraq war and the vote on Iran was the gravey; amazing !!.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:38 pm39 -I agree with you; there is much weight to the idea that Iran is now merely a convenient Red Herring – one of a whole boatload of Red Herring the Administration has used to keep everyone’s eye off the real ball that’s in play, which is (was always, clearly, to me) getting it on paper that Western oil companies can own Iraq’s oil, and the shifting of hundreds of billions of tax dollars to the Defense Industry, which had to go begging after the Cold War ended. There’s the actual Mission Accomplished – the rest is a PR show intended to keep heads spinning – the misdirection and chicanery of a sequined Las Vegas magician, and all the rubes just keep buying it.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:44 pmWith our currency is down and the deficit is mounting,another big war will put world economy and ours at critical point.
Comment by tarazan
Actually, I think it would throw our economy over a cliff. Russia and China are backing Iran and we seem to forget that China pretty much owns this country thanks to GWB. If China chooses to call in their debt, the Great Depression will look like a day in the park.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:45 pmBartlebee – Iran would mark a point of diminishing returns for the profiteers – too messy, too expensive, etc., without a real chance we’d end up owning their oil the way we’re going to own Iraq’s.
The idea is to “land” (that’s car salesman talk) the rubes on Iraq, the albeit ugly lesser of the two evils presented. Once the gathering storm of Iran War anxiety has passed, the rubes will have no problem committing their next 20 years’ tax contributions to maintaining hegemony in Iraq – it will seem like a “good deal” compared to what we might’ve bought in Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:52 pmnot to mention China and Russia’s likely support of Iran, and China could hamstring us bigtime through economic policies as has been pointed out.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:54 pmWe can speculate until the cows come home, but one things certian. Bush will move forward and he willl invade Iran, if he is permitted. Its not a distraction. Its just the next stage in the neocon agenda of dominance of the middle east.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
Bush doesn’t think he needs “permission” any more than he needed permission to invade Iraq. He will use the recent “sense of the senate” resolution as his justification for invading Iraq. The Democrats played right into his hands, as usual.
I would love to see the netroots start a “throw the bums out” campaign to replace each and every representative in Congress with new blood (with a few exceptions like Feingold and Kucinich).
September 30th, 2007 at 2:54 pmyou and I both know he’s just the cheerleader, the face man.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:54 pmnot to mention China and Russia’s likely support of Iran, and China could hamstring us bigtime through economic policies as has been pointed out.
Comment by tombaker
And one more point. Both China and Russia have nuclear weapons aimed at the United States and the ability to drop them on our country.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:55 pmHe plans on overthrowing the government of Iran and instituting a puppet regime loyal to the US, just like he did in Iraq, so he can control the oil and cut off the rapid growth of China into the modern world.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
And the sad thing about Iran is that the people of Iran don’t necessarily support their government’s policies. But if we attack Iran, they surely will. Nothing like a little bombing raid to bring the people together in a common cause.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:58 pmWWJN?
Who Would Jesus Nuke?
Great job Decider, history is gonna put you up there with Stalin, Saddam and the rest of the murderous gang. Your rosy rhetoric about democracy notwithstanding.
-GSD
September 30th, 2007 at 3:00 pmAttacking Iran’s Revolutionary Guard Corps is one approach to stopping acts against Americans in Iraq.
Another approach would be to not have Americans in Iraq.
So it seems that Congress’ unfailing support for the American occupation of Iraq gives us Bush/Cheney’s “Shifting Targets” rationale for yet another war.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:03 pmAnd it looks like they’re not even thinking about the 160,000 American troops in Iraq. An attack on Iran could spell disaster for American troops stationed in the region.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHersh has been saying this for years. I don’t trust him. He’s either being lied to by Black Ops propagandist. Either that or I think that he too is part of the propaganda problem.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:18 pmi agree with nat…hersh is either being fed these stories or is part of the problem.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:46 pm….because Congress already gave Bush unlimited unfettered authority to “pursue terrorist organizations wherever and whenever he deems necessaryâ€.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
I’m sorry but I am going to have to disagree with you here. Congress DID NOT give Bush unlimited unfettered authority to “pursue terrorist organizations wherever and whenever he deems necessary, that is Bush’s interpretation of the powers Congress gave him regarding Iraq. To the best of my knowledge, Congress has not explicitly given Bush that kind of permission.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:47 pmBARTLEBEE:
Here is what the Iraq Resolution said:
Bush ignored all the parts of this resolution except for the part of “using military force to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq”. This resolution clearly was aimed towards Iraq. In no way did it give Bush blanket authority to use military force against other countries.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:52 pmHersh has been saying this for years. I don’t trust him. He’s either being lied to by Black Ops propagandist. Either that or I think that he too is part of the propaganda problem.
Comment by JPV
Actually, I think that people in the military who think invading Iran is a VERY BAD IDEA
September 30th, 2007 at 3:54 pmOOPS…here’s the rest of the post:
Actially, I think that people in the military who think that invading Iran is a VERY BAD IDEA are leaking the information to him. Just like someone in the military leaked to the press the fact that Bush flew five nuclear warheads across our country to the military base that is the staging area for flights to the middle ease. I doubt that was an “accident”.
I’m happy to see that there are people in our government who care more about our country than they do about the people in the Whitehouse and are willing to risk their careers to be a whistle blower. I just wish they had started a little sooner.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:56 pmWow, have a few typos. I think I’ve had too many lattes (three so far). I need to do something else for a while. See you later everyone. Keep up the good fight!
September 30th, 2007 at 3:57 pmBush has shifted his position because surgical strikes are all he has available.
He has ZERO resources to invade Iran, and face the million man army waiting for him.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 30, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
He has ZERO period! He and Cheney are both ZEROS!!
If they phuck with Iran then the “million man army” will be unleashed into Iraq against our sitting-duck, over-worked, under-manned armed forces in Iraq.
The result would be lots of American deaths and American hostages being paraded on Al-Jazerwa every night into perpetuity!!
Is this what the double-o Zeros (Botch and Chompy) want? To phuck this Army into the ground??
September 30th, 2007 at 3:59 pmThe warnings are not just coming from Sy Hersh. Scott , Ritter, the former weapons inspector , was right about there being No WMDs in Iraq prior to the Invasion. He has a must read piece about Iran at Commondreams.org
from Scott Ritter’s article “Iraq will have to wait”:
:
The administration always heeded the justifications for aborting an attack, primarily because there was time still left on the clock, so to speak. But time is running out. Israel has drawn a red line across the calendar, indicating that if Iran has not pulled back from its nuclear ambitions by the end of 2007, military action in early spring 2008 will be inevitable.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:00 pmIt’s a pretty sad day in our history when our government needs to “sell†us death and destruction.
Comment by bilbobaggins — September 30, 2007 @ 1:22 pm
Sadder still is the fact that a lot of Americans buy the death and destruction that the White house is peddling.
The script that the Bush administration is currently using has been used so many times before, I would think at least some 30%ers would start having second thoughts.
Why, the current script in which Iran plays such a prominent role was used not 5 years ago. It was a sham then, and it is a sham now.
Yet, here we are, discussing the foolishness of the “surgical strikes” against Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:04 pmremember greg…30% of americans are hoping and praying the end of the world comes tomorrow. a war with iran might make this happen quicker in their sick minds.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:13 pmif his goal is to destroy the capabilites of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 30, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Then Pres Bush will order the bombing of whatever, and claim it is part of his goal to destroy the capabilities of the Revolutionary Guard.
Or, easier yet, he will simply ignore that provision.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:15 pmHow many times are you going to ride the merry-go-round and act surprised everytime you complete a circle.
Dems are terrified of looking weak on national security, and they are going to support whatever Bush does to stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty. The sooner you come to accept this, the sooner we can move forward, complete the mission, and go home.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:17 pmDems are terrified of looking weak on national security, and they are going to support whatever Bush does to stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty. The sooner you come to accept this, the sooner we can move forward, complete the mission, and go home.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 30, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Exactly what “mission” are you referring to here, Jason?
September 30th, 2007 at 4:30 pm…stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 30, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Those damned Iranians are undermining Iraqi sovereignty!! They are meddling in Iraq!!! The outrage! The audacity!! The hypocrisy!! I’m sure if Iran wanted to invade and occupy Canada all based on lies so they could take their resources—-we wouldn’t mind or meddle in Canada. That would be so hypocritical!
September 30th, 2007 at 4:37 pmI hear Bush calls it his “Final Solution†to the “Muslim Problemâ€.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 30, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
And quite possibly his REAL goal ….. the End of Days!
September 30th, 2007 at 4:38 pm“Shifting Targets” – The Theme of the Bush Administration
September 30th, 2007 at 4:39 pmNow you see it, now you don’t. The Great American “Smoke & Mirrors Presidency”.
The end of days it might be with Bush as the real Anti-Christ.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:39 pmRight, Keith! Damn A’jad for meddling in the country directly across the border from his own! The nerve, huh? How would we like it if this were going on (illegal invasion of a sovereign country like Canada) just across ours? We wouldn’t like it one damn bit.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:41 pm…stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler — September 30, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Too late, Jason. Last I checked, another country beat Iran to it. Iraq was a sovereign country when BushCo invaded.
Try to keep up, OK?
September 30th, 2007 at 4:41 pmBartlebee: Good to see you holding the fort so well today! Of course, Bush & Cheney are “desperate men” and we know what desperate men do….they take desperate measures which is why they’re pulling out all of the stops right now in the waning stages of their impotent presidency. They KNOW that life will not be good or easy for them following their crime spree and they will be held by an international court to be accountable for their horrendous “war crimes”. That’s what’s going on here. They’re shaking in their boots right now with the thought of a dem president who will crack their nuts.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:43 pmComment by Veritas — September 30, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Like Let’s Make A Deal.
RePugniScum’s say, “I’ll take what’s behind door number 3 with the little boy standing in front of it…yeah!!
September 30th, 2007 at 4:44 pmAnd quite possibly his REAL goal ….. the End of Days!
Comment by upside99 — September 30, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Or Armegeddon. I’m not certain about all this mythology, but I think the Bible never mentions the End Times. I think all this Left Behind series is a recent invention.
If he keeps up, we could really have an Armegeddon. Pakistan has nukes. Russia and China don’t want the US to conquer Iran, too.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:44 pmI see our resident troll is spewing his typical boring bullcrap here in suggesting that it would be another one of Bush’s “slam dunks” in Iran….right! And if anyone believes that with the sheer size of Iran, I’ve got a physically deteriorating bridge (any one of them in this decaying country) to sell them.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:45 pmIt’s the science of the “end times” or eschatology (escatology).
September 30th, 2007 at 4:46 pmI know….I know….eschatology sounds like it should be associated with kitty litter.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:46 pm…stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
why?
September 30th, 2007 at 4:47 pmTry to keep up, OK?
Comment by upside99 — September 30, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
You’re gonna have to drag Jason M(oron) H(?) behind a truck in Texas driven by a couple of Klansmen to get him to keep up. Well, maybe not him, just his brain!!!
September 30th, 2007 at 4:48 pmI think everyone’s “gut feeling” about this Iran situation is that it will fulfill some of the prophesies about the “anti christ” whom many have determined to GWB long ago. If he ignites the Middle East against us, no doubt we’ll be nuked by a triumverate of power….China, Pakistan, and Russia for openers. Everyone knows that Russia never dismantled their nuke capabilities.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:48 pmBetween Jason and Bigfoot I think their combined IQ still doesn’t reach room temperature….
September 30th, 2007 at 4:49 pmBartlebee: This is an critical error in Bush’s deranged headset however. Miring this country down may only hasten his punishment for his war crimes internationally without anyone here at home to support him. I think that if I were him right now, I’d be very careful about taking this next step. He may, in fact, be stepping on a huge landmine which will take him to prison for life.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI think the reason Hersh was “wrong” before is that there was a struggle between Cheney-Bush, the Pentagon, and the State Dept. Cheney-Bush could not get what they wanted then. I think they still have this crazy idea of ‘liberating’ Iran, removing a ‘threat’, and taking control of their oil.
I think they want a Gulf-of-Tonkin type incident to drum up support.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI did not see Christians dancing in the streets whem we bombed Iraq.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
Did you happen to see Bush do his little hop, skip and-a jump, captured for all posterity, when he got word the bombing had started?
And perhaps you weren’t watching the “Shock-And-Awe” rock vidoes broadcast endlessly on Fox at the time… ya know, the ones w/ all the cool, computer-generated graphics and screaming rock music…
Oh, yeah, we’re the “civilized” ones alrighty!
September 30th, 2007 at 4:51 pmAnd I’d have to say that it couldn’t happen to a more deserving crim….unless you count Cheney into the mix as well.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:52 pmChina wouldn’t have to Nuke us. They’d just have to call in their loans.
A financial meltdown doesn’t release messy radiation.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:52 pmWhy am I getting a terrible deja vu here?
Comment by boilerman10 — September 30, 2007 @ 2:33 pm
it’s not deja vu… it’s deja merde…
September 30th, 2007 at 4:53 pmWhat Bush fails to realize is that Iranians are highly intelligent people, socially evolved, and not going to sit back and let dictator Bush occupy their country. We’ll be in for a huge surprise if we think we’re going to bully that country.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:53 pmTRoS,
Wouldn’t that translate “already sh*t”?
September 30th, 2007 at 4:57 pmI’ve heard that as retribution for the faux paper we intentionally sold China recently they’re planning on calling their debt due and payable very soon. Which may mean partitioning portions of our country off to them since they “own it”. Now that would be a kicker….while we’re suggesting that the Iraqis partition their country into thirds, China may settle for one third of ours in payment for the debt they hold over our heads. Isn’t that a supreme kick in the ass?
September 30th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIsrael has 300-400 nuclear weapons. Many could be put on subs directly off the coast of Iran and destroy the country in minutes. I think Iran has a right to a deterrent considering that.
Look what happened to Iraq when they did not have a deterrent.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:59 pmAnd Bush has the balls to scream about not having enough money for programs when he’s spending $500,000 per minute in Iraq. What a bubble brain.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:00 pm“The focus has shifted from a broad bombing attack against Iran’s nuclear facilities to “surgical†strikes again Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere.â€
Comment by lefttown
Funny how that works huh?
They somehow (quietly of course) shifted from wanting to stop Iran from enriching Uranium to wanting to stop Iran from enriching Uranium AND destroying their military.
Geeee… it’s almost as if the US is (once again) being tricked into the heavy lifting, to ensure that Israel stays the preeminent superpower in the region.
Hope that all you Americans are happy to offer your sons and daughters up for human sacrifice, so that Israel and big oil can prosper in the future. BTW, what are you getting out of it?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:05 pmWouldn’t that translate “already sh*t�
Comment by Keith — September 30, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Personal joke… I use to say… “Where have I seen this sh*t before?”
September 30th, 2007 at 5:14 pmA few months ago when “Iranian” weapons were discovered in Iraq, the boxes has dates that were month/date/year. Only the US has dates that way.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:18 pmonly to find that now, WE’RE the Nazi’s.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 30, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Yes, he did. He’s walking down a hallway, and does a weird little skip step, makes a fist and pumps it, and says “YES!” w/ a smile on his face.
Remember, this is a man who SMIRKED when asked about sending convicts to their death in Texas. This sort of disturbed behavior goes back to his days of alledgedly blowing up frogs w/ fire crackers.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:18 pmVendetta…evidence like aluminum tubes?
Yeah, what a loony.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — September 30, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
I been feeling that a lot lately. Especially all these stats about how much progress we are making in Iraq looking just like Vietnam.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pmI know you loony libs are accustomed to actually having evidence before you slander folks but it is customary among the civilized and educated.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
“You loony libs”… Whoa! The irony! Whilst chastizing us for… ah, what? How does that read? Anyways, he engages in the EXACT behavior he’s criticizing, and resorts to cliches and stereotyping too! Hat trick!
Woohoo! What… an F-in’ whackjob!
September 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pmI did not see Christians dancing in the streets whem we bombed Iraq.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 1:46 pm
They were bowing down to their TVs and thanking Jeeezus.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:21 pmEspecially all these stats about how much progress we are making in Iraq looking just like Vietnam.
Comment by Keith — September 30, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
Right… see, it makes sense after all.
“It’s like deja merde, all over again…” – Yogi Bear, to Booboo…
September 30th, 2007 at 5:21 pmwhere’s the video of the wmd’s?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:22 pmOnly the US has dates that way.
Comment by Keith — September 30, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Were the boxes stamped “Made in China”? That would pretty much prove they were from the US… ;-D!!!
September 30th, 2007 at 5:24 pmTRoS,
Yogi Berra–not Yogi Bear. You could look it up.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:26 pmto actually having evidence before you slander folks but it is customary among the civilized and educated.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
For example, it would allow a person to be convicted based on secret evidence and would allow the use of evidence obtained as the result of horrific abuse.
Secret evidence??? better think yer stance thru a little better, Jaspser.
And NO stallin’ or tap-dancing around allowed!
September 30th, 2007 at 5:27 pmYou could look it up.
Comment by Keith — September 30, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
Another joke… nothing personal, but yer new here, aren’t ya?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pmI’m sure bombing Iran would pay for itself….kind of like the oil in Iraq has paid for the invasion and occupation.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pmMaybe all the people cheering when Fred Thompson was asked if Iran should be bombed on a radio show, were Muslims, not Christians…
…wait…
September 30th, 2007 at 5:30 pmMaybe all those people from Borat´s movie in the Rodeo scene were stunts.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:31 pmtros,
I got the joke. I just tried a worse one. Berra was famous for saying “You could look it up”.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:32 pmMaybe all the people saying White Phosphorous is not a chemical weapon are not Xtians, after all. All the people saying Abu Ghraib´s events were all pranks are not Xtians.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:33 pmSo you think no evidence is bad when Bushco does it but ok when the loony leftist do the same?
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
TP hasn’t killed one million people, cost taxpayers $2 trillion, and made us less safe.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:34 pmWhose radio show are they going to bomb it on?
Comment by Vendetta
Who are they? US national extremists carpetbombing children and women or Islam extremists that kill children and women?
Who can tell the difference anyway?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:37 pmShow the evidence that those deniers are all christians.
Comment by Vendetta
I just have to prove that ONLY ONE was a Xtian.
Based on statistical laws, there were more than one Xtian cheering the deaths of innocent civilians.
One poster named Bigfoot says his wife agreed to bomb with nukes Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:39 pmSo you think no evidence is bad when Bushco does it but ok when the loony leftist do the same?
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
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Nice way to turn your own comment around on yourself. You’ve already condemned ALL (generalization…) of us (”loony leftist” = stereotyping), and I give one horrendous CONCRETE example of the Bush Admin’s behavior, and now, it’s “So it’s okay when you do it?”
Geez, Li’l Feller, yer spinning so hard, I’m surprised ya can stand up!
BTW, is this Mr P? “You libs” was always one of his favorite phrases.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:41 pmVendetta cant be Mr. P.
He has a different idiocy quality.
The quantity is the same.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:46 pmIt’s Sunday, V – why aren’t you out tongue-talking, or snake-handling, or some other master-race type activity?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:46 pmThe pro-war cheerleading rallies always say “support the troops”. In reality, supporting the troops would be never sending them into a hellhole no-win situation.
Maybe half of Christian Americans now oppose the war, but they seem to be the quiet ones—not the ones who wear their religion on their sleeves. And not the ones who are very politically organized like Robertson’s, Falwell’s, or Dobson’s groups.
September 30th, 2007 at 5:47 pmAnd the Germans cheered Hitler on right up until the end….
Only in retrospect did they realize just how they had allowed themselves to be disillusioned…
I do believe we are doing the same thing to ourselves right now…
Think about it: We, the people, have been shown to have NO VOICE in whether this nation goes to war (or with whom) or not, and the elected officials we voted for to represent our views in DC are collectively silenced out of fear of being seen as ‘helping the terrorists.’
We are losing our Freedom of Religion…we’ve already lost our Right to Privacy and our Freedom of Speech…we’ve lost Habeas Corpus…what’s next??
Why are we all so content to sit back and allow this administration to take from us those very ideals that HAD made us a model among nations?
As I’ve read from other comments, revolutions have been fought over far less than this…
WHY are we so complacent?
WHY are we allowing this to continue?
Do we all really have so many Rights left to lose that we can sit back and watch the rest of them be taken from us, without so much as a ‘nay, ye shall not!” from more than a handful of us?
What is it going to take before we wake the hell up?
September 30th, 2007 at 5:50 pmA few is a far cry from the “all†which was implied.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
I did not say “a few”. There are millions of American Christians voting for people who have butchered a million innocent Iraqis. And have increased terrorism and made us less safe.
September 30th, 2007 at 6:01 pm“making allies”….like when we told NATO to get screwed after 9/11??
is that how ally-making is done?
September 30th, 2007 at 6:05 pm201 – Haskell – portrait of a Righty – poignant observation, B.
September 30th, 2007 at 6:06 pmVendetta,
So, you are opposed to Bush’s wars? If so, I think other posters should ease up on you. I thought a while back you were defending Bush and his lack of evidence.
Am I the only one having trouble with my browser? Or is the problem at TP’s end?
September 30th, 2007 at 6:10 pmhe fact is that the left wing is made up mostly of christians as well. So what good does insulting christians do but alienate your own? stupid.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Mostly Christians??? Huh? WTF???
September 30th, 2007 at 6:11 pmSo you admit you are a loony leftist. Now we are getting somewhere. Recognizing the problem is the first and most important step towards recovery.
Comment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
Still leading w/ yer… stereotypes… so original.
September 30th, 2007 at 6:13 pmBerra was famous for saying “You could look it upâ€.
Comment by Keith — September 30, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Ooops… good one… missed it…
September 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pmBut time is running out. Israel has drawn a red line across the calendar, indicating that if Iran has not pulled back from its nuclear ambitions by the end of 2007, military action in early spring 2008 will be inevitable.
Comment by Badger
If that’s what Israel wants to do, then let them. It’s not our problem. When did defending Israel become our primary focus in the Middle East? If Israel would just shut up and mind it’s own business, things would be much better in the Middle East.
September 30th, 2007 at 6:58 pmDems are terrified of looking weak on national security, and they are going to support whatever Bush does to stop Ahmedinijad from getting nukes and undermining Iraqi sovereignty. The sooner you come to accept this, the sooner we can move forward, complete the mission, and go home.
Comment by Jason M. Hendler
So Right Wing Loon Jason, what’s the hurry. Iran may have a nuclear weapon in 7 to 10 years. What’s the rush? And how is Iran undermining Iraqi sovereignty? Most people in Iran are Shiites and the major party in Iraq now are Shiites. According to Bush Iran is in Iraq trying to kill Americans, so if this is true (which I doubt), then Iraq wants them there and isn’t afraid they will threaten their sovereignty. What DOES threaten their sovereignty (Iraq’s) is the United States occupying their country and telling them what to do and how to do it.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:03 pmComment by Vendetta — September 30, 2007 @ 6:16 pm
No, Dems are not as crooked as Repubs. That would be very difficult to do. Elect good Dems like Kucinich instead of bad Dems like Traficante or Jefferson.
The federal government is not too big. The problem is it often is not geared to deal with the needs of the American people. We should not be spending $950 billion every year for military needs (all things considered). We should have single-payer, government-run healthcare.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:12 pmIsrael has 300-400 nuclear weapons. Many could be put on subs directly off the coast of Iran and destroy the country in minutes. I think Iran has a right to a deterrent considering that.
That’s a point so many people are missing. Who in hell are we to say who can have a nuke and who can’t. Iran can’t have one because they have a nutjob as their Leader. A nutjob that no one in that country supports, but will support if we or Israel attacks them. What puzzles me is France getting involved in this mess. What did Bush offer the new leader of France to get him all ginned up about Iran?
I am also puzzled as to why our Democrats in Congress don’t see this. Why do they think they have the right to determine who should and should not have a nuclear bomb? Who appointed them god? And this stupid Iran “sense of the senate” bill they just passed is nuts. They are condemning Iran for something that our government “thinks they are doing”. Didn’t they learn their lesson from Iraq. You think they would be asking for proof before they start condemning people.
I say we throw them all out in the next election and start all over again with a new set of representatives. The ones we have now ARE NOT working in our best interests.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:13 pmI think much of the problem is the size and power of the fed and a new party will lead to the same place we are at now if we do not reverse direcion and scale down the size of the fed gov. if we do not it is certain to get worse no matter who we elect.
Comment by Vendetta
It is not the size of our government that is wrong with this country. It is the stranglehold corporations have on our country that is wrong. We would not still be in Iraq if the defense contractors weren’t getting very rich off of the death and destruction they support. We really should rename us “The United Corporations of America”.
It’s time for us to take back our government and make it do what the framers of our constitution intended it to do, to promote the general welfare of the people of this country. And we are not promoting the general welfare when we allow our infrastructure to crumble and consider medical care a privilege and not a right. And we do all this so that the rich can get richer and the poor can get poorer. The framers of our constitution must turn over in their graves each night to see what Bush has done to our government.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:19 pmComment by bilbobaggins — September 30, 2007 @ 7:13 pm
Many Dems realize the truth but cannot say it for fear of losing support.
Iran’s president is not as powerful as most Americans think. Much of what he says, such as condemning Israel, is rhetoric to gain political support.
BTW-who was that insightful person you quoted?
September 30th, 2007 at 7:21 pmBuilding a base less than 5 miles from the Iranian border under the pretext of protecting the (900 mile!) border from smugglers has nothing to do with the plan to strike Iran does it? A few soldiers on patrol will follow orders that their superiors will deny – it will be a mistake – but an incident will occur and there you have it — War in Iran.
September 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pmFYI — There was a great deal of excitement in Louisville Ky on 3/19/03, as Bush supporters who could not wait for Bush to invade Iraq literally took to the streets, dancing and singing. “Shock and Awe” brought exciting video from the Bombing of Baghdad, and Republicans were swept up in the orgy of certain American victory. Certainly, everyone out there remembers this national disgrace.
My fear tonight as I read Seymour Hersh’s report about the plan by Bush, Cheney, Lieberman, Freedom Watch and others for “surgical” strikes against the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is that Americans will react with the same gleeful excitement when they hear about the bombing of Iran.
Isn’t it ironic that the Kyl-Lieberman amendment (with the REALLY inflammatory phrases removed, thank goodness) names the Iranian Rev Guard as a terrorist organization. How convenient.
September 30th, 2007 at 10:27 pmThey’d still be wrong if they did know how to plan for them and win them.
October 1st, 2007 at 1:20 amYou can get the British on board anytime. They’re the prostitutes of America. They have proven it time and time again.
October 1st, 2007 at 2:08 amremember greg…30% of americans are hoping and praying the end of the world comes tomorrow. a war with iran might make this happen quicker in their sick minds.
Comment by Freakaloin — September 30, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
I think the bible should be labeled a terrorist book. If this is what 2000 years has led to, then perhaps we should depending on each other, science, technology, and art, instead of this bloodbath.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:30 amBombing Iran to slow or stop their progress toward a nuke weapon is radical. Lets just back away and let them build it! That isn’t radical at all.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 24, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
As self-fulfilling prophecies go, it would seem the US is determined Iran will have the bomb, doesn’t it? Of course, living in an neighborhood too small to survive nuclear attack yet being the first to introduce nuclear weapons to it has long struck me much the same way. It would seem only time and persistence are required, really.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:17 amThats what you saw Christians doing.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — September 30, 2007 @ 2:35 pm
Don’t lie; you never saw me doing that! Slander is not going to make you any more credible.
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:26 pmLets just back away and let them build it! That isn’t radical at all.
Comment by Roger_Roger — September 24, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Where’s the proof that they have a bomb or intend to have it? Or are we fighting a “straw man” to get their oil?
October 2nd, 2007 at 8:35 pmthe border and that the British “were on board.
The British are “allways on board” They’re American prostitutes!
October 2nd, 2007 at 9:02 pmTP, you are getting bad information and printing it as truth. This is a disservice to your readers.
Comment by Billy Hill — September 30, 2007 @ 2:01 pm
Who’s paying you? Come clean and say it!
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:07 pm