Comments on: Chertoff: Immigrants ‘degrade the environment.’ http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:04:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: cal1942 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4100804 cal1942 Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:38:34 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4100804 "“And don’t forget that the poverty most of these “illegals” are coming to the U.S. to escape is a direct result of U.S. foreign intervention Comment by toasterhead” Give us an example? Comment by Michael" OK Mikey how about the trade agreements that allowed subsidized US farm exports to Mexico and beyond that ruined thousands upon thousands of Latin American farmers and their workers who now form the bulk of deperate immigrants. Or how about the 'export' of American "free trade" theory in the 80s and 90s that ruined so many Latin American economies and impoverished millions; also a significant source of immigration. And it wasn't just the theory. it was demanded by the US controlled World Bank and IMF. Immigration of people from Latin America to the US in very large numbers in recent years is for a reason Mikey and only the dominant nation in the hemisphere can have so profound an effect. Mikey do you really suppose that people leave their homes and risk their lives to journey to a strange place if they weren't absolutely desperate? ““And don’t forget that the poverty most of these “illegals” are coming to the U.S. to escape is a direct result of U.S. foreign intervention

Comment by toasterhead”

Give us an example?

Comment by Michael”

OK Mikey how about the trade agreements that allowed subsidized US farm exports to Mexico and beyond that ruined thousands upon thousands of Latin American farmers and their workers who now form the bulk of deperate immigrants.

Or how about the ‘export’ of American “free trade” theory in the 80s and 90s that ruined so many Latin American economies and impoverished millions; also a significant source of immigration. And it wasn’t just the theory. it was demanded by the US controlled World Bank and IMF.

Immigration of people from Latin America to the US in very large numbers in recent years is for a reason Mikey and only the dominant nation in the hemisphere can have so profound an effect.

Mikey do you really suppose that people leave their homes and risk their lives to journey to a strange place if they weren’t absolutely desperate?

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099432 Leftside Annie Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:32:19 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099432 Good point. And besides, we need white people in the minority to boot. I want to be in the minority, on my knees to the third-world superpower. Comment by Shayne — October 1, 2007 @ 3:27 pm Shayne - we are *already* on our knees to at least two "third-world superpowers"...China and Saudi Arabia. Seriously. And... the last *I* heard, "liberal judges" had nothing whatsoever to do with the Bushies flushing the Constitution down the toilet. The so-called "liberal judges" have tried to stop them. Maybe all that Kool-Aid gives you a different perspective, eh? Good point. And besides, we need white people in the minority to boot. I want to be in the minority, on my knees to the third-world superpower.

Comment by Shayne — October 1, 2007 @ 3:27 pm

Shayne – we are *already* on our knees to at least two “third-world superpowers”…China and Saudi Arabia. Seriously.

And… the last *I* heard, “liberal judges” had nothing whatsoever to do with the Bushies flushing the Constitution down the toilet. The so-called “liberal judges” have tried to stop them. Maybe all that Kool-Aid gives you a different perspective, eh?

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099303 Marie Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:33:48 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099303 Yeah, I am sure that any pile of human dung is more environmentally offensive than the coyote dung. The water bottles strewn along the bike path nearby are so much more environmentally-friendly than any on the Texas border. Chertoff is an environmental hazard. And the man he serves, with his cronies, are polluting everything they touch, including the air we breathe. His oil friends at BP have decided that pumping ammonia and other contaminants into Lake Michigan is a good thing -- after years of effort in cleaning up the Great Lakes. Chertoff should keep his mouth shut and let people think he is an idiotic sycophant rather than speak and prove it. Yeah, I am sure that any pile of human dung is more environmentally offensive than the coyote dung. The water bottles strewn along the bike path nearby are so much more environmentally-friendly than any on the Texas border.
Chertoff is an environmental hazard.
And the man he serves, with his cronies, are polluting everything they touch, including the air we breathe.
His oil friends at BP have decided that pumping ammonia and other contaminants into Lake Michigan is a good thing — after years of effort in cleaning up the Great Lakes.
Chertoff should keep his mouth shut and let people think he is an idiotic sycophant rather than speak and prove it.

]]> By: hewhoisabouttobeflamed http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099255 hewhoisabouttobeflamed Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:08:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099255 I am wondering: since when did criticizing the leaving of trash, etc. in the environment equal racism? If this discussion of illegal immigration is going to go forward at least three things need to happen: 1) we have to quit with the knee-jerk response of calling 'racism' on any statement about the illegals and their impact on this country, good, bad or neutral. 2) we must accept that there are in fact, some negative effects on the country from illegal immigration, just as there are positive ones. Anyhow, once everyone calms down, maybe you should read this for a bit of a reality check: http://www.slate.com/id/2131722/entry/2131710/ I am wondering: since when did criticizing the leaving of trash, etc. in the environment equal racism?
If this discussion of illegal immigration is going to go forward at least three things need to happen:
1) we have to quit with the knee-jerk response of calling ‘racism’ on any statement about the illegals and their impact on this country, good, bad or neutral.
2) we must accept that there are in fact, some negative effects on the country from illegal immigration, just as there are positive ones.

Anyhow, once everyone calms down, maybe you should read this for a bit of a reality check:

http://www.slate.com/id/2131722/entry/2131710/

]]> By: tablogloid http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099252 tablogloid Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:07:25 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099252 comment 91: ???? comment 91: ????

]]> By: tablogloid http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099244 tablogloid Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:04:02 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099244 Chertoff himself is a hazardous waste product. Chertoff himself is a hazardous waste product.

]]> By: Jackie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099232 Jackie Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:58:37 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099232 Should the GOP succeed in removing the immigrants we will need people to do their jobs so Americans can still shop for veggies and make sure the fields are taken care of. The White House and the GOP will always be able to get Blacks back in the fields are where they started. With the help of the Supreme Court dismantling the Civil Rights Bill those jobs will be filled quickly. Let's hope Magic, Oprah, Senator Obama, Michael Jordan and other rich Blacks pack their bags and leave the country quick. Justice Thomas is getting ready now that's why he's crying. For all those Americans who weren't born to see the way it was in the 1900s you'll get your chance. This way the GOP wont have to worry about the minority vote because minorities were not allowed to vote they had no Rights at all. The worked for a Master and lived in shacks with no education. It could say on Social Security too. Look this is how the United States became Great as it have the Rich and the Poor. Connie Rice already has her position under George W. Bush that wont change when the South raises again. Should the GOP succeed in removing the immigrants
we will need people to do their jobs so Americans can still shop for veggies and make sure the fields are taken care of. The White House and the GOP will always be able to get Blacks back in the fields are where they started. With the help of the Supreme Court dismantling the Civil Rights Bill those jobs will be filled quickly. Let’s hope Magic, Oprah, Senator Obama, Michael Jordan and other rich Blacks pack their bags and leave the country quick. Justice Thomas is getting ready now that’s why he’s crying.
For all those Americans who weren’t born to see the way it was in the 1900s you’ll get your chance.
This way the GOP wont have to worry about the minority vote because minorities were not allowed to vote they had no Rights at all. The worked for a Master and lived in shacks with no education.
It could say on Social Security too. Look this is how the United States became Great as it have the Rich and the Poor. Connie Rice already has her position under George W. Bush that wont change when the South raises again.

]]> By: Wayne http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099211 Wayne Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:46:44 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099211 Michael, you run off again? Hilarious... Comment by Shayne Sarcasm? Michael, you run off again?

Hilarious…

Comment by Shayne

Sarcasm?

]]> By: missmolly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099198 missmolly Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:36:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099198 Good point. And besides, we need white people in the minority to boot. I want to be in the minority, on my knees to the third-world superpower. Comment by Shayne — October 1, 2007 @ 3:27 pm Sarcasm noted. Seriously, what do YOU suggest? Good point. And besides, we need white people in the minority to boot. I want to be in the minority, on my knees to the third-world superpower.

Comment by Shayne — October 1, 2007 @ 3:27 pm

Sarcasm noted. Seriously, what do YOU suggest?

]]> By: Anonymouse http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099197 Anonymouse Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:35:23 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099197 Sounds like he must have renewed his Sierra Club membership. Sounds like he must have renewed his Sierra Club membership.

]]> By: missmolly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099183 missmolly Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:25:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099183 Until then, build that wall NOW! Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm There are already many Mexicans who feel that entering the United States is worth all the hardships (including possible death) that a border crossing entails. You think a wall will stop them? It might slow down a few, but tunnels will still be dug (and they'll increase with a wall in place), and coyotes will continue to bribe border guards -- whatever it takes for people to cross. Try googling the words Mexico border tunnel and see what you come up with. And these tunnels are used to smuggle people AND drugs. Until then, build that wall NOW!

Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm

There are already many Mexicans who feel that entering the United States is worth all the hardships (including possible death) that a border crossing entails. You think a wall will stop them? It might slow down a few, but tunnels will still be dug (and they’ll increase with a wall in place), and coyotes will continue to bribe border guards — whatever it takes for people to cross.

Try googling the words Mexico border tunnel and see what you come up with. And these tunnels are used to smuggle people AND drugs.

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099172 Leftside Annie Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:21:19 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099172 Hey, idiot Michael - WE JUST WANT THE FLEEPING <strong>BUSHIES</strong> TO OBEY OUR LAWS. Hey, idiot Michael – WE JUST WANT THE FLEEPING BUSHIES TO OBEY OUR LAWS.

]]> By: deebaser http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099170 deebaser Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:21:13 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099170 “What about the people who hire undocumented workers michael? Comment by Bobwurst” What does that have to do with immigrants entering this country illegally? Do you leftists support breaking the law? ----- It has EVERYTHING to do with illegal immigration. If there is no work, then there is no illegal immigration. The best way to "solve" the issue of illegal immigration permanently is to give a one time amnesty to all the ones currently here and simultaneously make it a felony with severe mandatory minimums for hiring undocumented labor. If we toughen up the law without amnesty, we'll have millions of people unemployable in the US. The crime rate would go through the roof. “What about the people who hire undocumented workers michael?

Comment by Bobwurst”

What does that have to do with immigrants entering this country illegally? Do you leftists support breaking the law?
—–

It has EVERYTHING to do with illegal immigration. If there is no work, then there is no illegal immigration.

The best way to “solve” the issue of illegal immigration permanently is to give a one time amnesty to all the ones currently here and simultaneously make it a felony with severe mandatory minimums for hiring undocumented labor.

If we toughen up the law without amnesty, we’ll have millions of people unemployable in the US. The crime rate would go through the roof.

]]> By: toasterhead http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099164 toasterhead Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:17:50 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099164 <i>If you can’t connect people coming here illegally in order to get paying work with businesses looking for cheap labor, I doubt there’s any explanation simple enough for you to understand. Comment by missmolly — October 1, 2007 @ 3:13 pm</i> Hence his obsession with the fence. People of Michael's ilk cant deal with complex issues like economics. If you can’t connect people coming here illegally in order to get paying work with businesses looking for cheap labor, I doubt there’s any explanation simple enough for you to understand.

Comment by missmolly — October 1, 2007 @ 3:13 pm

Hence his obsession with the fence. People of Michael’s ilk cant deal with complex issues like economics.

]]> By: toasterhead http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099162 toasterhead Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:16:26 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099162 <i>Our immigration laws apply to everyone regardless of the color of their skin. Until these laws are change the current ones need to be enforced. Until then, build that wall NOW! Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm</i> Wrong. Our immigration laws were formulated <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5391395" rel="nofollow">in order to preserve the white majority by establishing preferences for family members of existing (white) citizens and for people with higher education and needed skills, mostly to be found in Western Europe.</a> Our immigration laws apply to everyone regardless of the color of their skin. Until these laws are change the current ones need to be enforced. Until then, build that wall NOW!

Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm

Wrong. Our immigration laws were formulated in order to preserve the white majority by establishing preferences for family members of existing (white) citizens and for people with higher education and needed skills, mostly to be found in Western Europe.

]]> By: missmolly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099153 missmolly Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:13:10 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099153 “What about the people who hire undocumented workers michael? Comment by Bobwurst” What does that have to do with immigrants entering this country illegally? Do you leftists support breaking the law? Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:40 pm No, we leftists don't support breaking the law. It's just that we are realistic. We recognize that Mexicans have been swarming into this country for a long time despite it being illegal, and are likely to continue to do so. We'd like to see some alternate approaches to solving the problem, instead of staying the current course and complaining about the "lawbreakers". Why do Mexicans come here? Mostly for work. When Bobwurst pointed out the people who hire undocumented workers, you asked what that had to do with people entering illegally. If you can't connect people coming here illegally in order to get paying work with businesses looking for cheap labor, I doubt there's any explanation simple enough for you to understand. “What about the people who hire undocumented workers michael?

Comment by Bobwurst”

What does that have to do with immigrants entering this country illegally? Do you leftists support breaking the law?

Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:40 pm

No, we leftists don’t support breaking the law. It’s just that we are realistic. We recognize that Mexicans have been swarming into this country for a long time despite it being illegal, and are likely to continue to do so. We’d like to see some alternate approaches to solving the problem, instead of staying the current course and complaining about the “lawbreakers”.

Why do Mexicans come here? Mostly for work. When Bobwurst pointed out the people who hire undocumented workers, you asked what that had to do with people entering illegally. If you can’t connect people coming here illegally in order to get paying work with businesses looking for cheap labor, I doubt there’s any explanation simple enough for you to understand.

]]> By: toasterhead http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099151 toasterhead Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:11:12 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099151 <i>Give us an example? Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:50 pm</i> Sure! Let's start with the <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB4/index.html" rel="nofollow">CIA-sponsored coup of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in 1954</a>, which occurred after intense lobbying by the United Fruit Company in order to prevent Arbenz from purchasing UFC-owned land and turning it over to indigenous native Americans. Or how about the assassination of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Torrijos" rel="nofollow">Panamanian President Omar Torrijos</a> in 1981, also for the crime of land redistribution? Then how about the disastrous <a href="http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2000/00april/interview.html" rel="nofollow">"Washington Consensus" structural adjustment programs instituted by the World Bank and IMF throughout the 80s and early 90s</a> that left much of Latin America heavily in debt and in economic disarray? Give us an example?

Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:50 pm

Sure! Let’s start with the CIA-sponsored coup of President Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán in 1954, which occurred after intense lobbying by the United Fruit Company in order to prevent Arbenz from purchasing UFC-owned land and turning it over to indigenous native Americans.

Or how about the assassination of Panamanian President Omar Torrijos in 1981, also for the crime of land redistribution?

Then how about the disastrous “Washington Consensus” structural adjustment programs instituted by the World Bank and IMF throughout the 80s and early 90s that left much of Latin America heavily in debt and in economic disarray?

]]> By: OxyCon http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099133 OxyCon Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:05:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099133 Chertoff forgot to include the dead bodies littering the area along the border. They're really bad for the environment. Chertoff forgot to include the dead bodies littering the area along the border. They’re really bad for the environment.

]]> By: Wayne http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099132 Wayne Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:05:17 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099132 Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm Heard from Zooey you were looking for me this weekend. Were you going to explain why you, who claim you are a Navy veteran, did not know what a NEC ( Navy Enlisted Classification ) was, until it had to be explained to you? Like we had to explain to you what a dd214 was, months ago? Comment by Michael — October 1, 2007 @ 2:56 pm

Heard from Zooey you were looking for me this weekend.

Were you going to explain why you, who claim you are a Navy veteran, did not know what a NEC ( Navy Enlisted Classification ) was, until it had to be explained to you?
Like we had to explain to you what a dd214 was, months ago?

]]> By: missmolly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/comment-page-2/#comment-4099117 missmolly Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:59:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/01/chertoff-immigrants-degrade-the-environment/#comment-4099117 Funny how lefties “care” for the environment, yet want millions upon millions of people to immigrate from countries who could care less about it! Comment by C T V 1 — October 1, 2007 @ 2:15 pm Apparently, you think that people sneak into this country just so they can litter freely? FYI, people do NOT cross the border illegally just so they can dump their trash on our side instead of theirs. Much of that litter comes because A) there are no toilet facilities in the middle of the desert, B) there are no trash cans or dumpsters in the middle of the desert, and C) when a truck comes to pick up people who have crossed the border, they pack as many people into it as they can, forcing people to leave belongings behind. People have differing opinions about illegal immigration and how to deal with it. And I agree that litter is unsightly and it can damage ecosystems (although less in a desert than in a wetlands, for example). The point is that Chertoff thinks that littering is the "worst thing you can do to the environment". The fact that he thinks this is a crisis more dire than global warming, destruction of the ozone layer, air pollution, water pollution, tropical rainforest destruction, etc. shows us that he's deluded. Funny how lefties “care” for the environment, yet want millions upon millions of people to immigrate from countries who could care less about it!

Comment by C T V 1 — October 1, 2007 @ 2:15 pm

Apparently, you think that people sneak into this country just so they can litter freely? FYI, people do NOT cross the border illegally just so they can dump their trash on our side instead of theirs.

Much of that litter comes because A) there are no toilet facilities in the middle of the desert, B) there are no trash cans or dumpsters in the middle of the desert, and C) when a truck comes to pick up people who have crossed the border, they pack as many people into it as they can, forcing people to leave belongings behind.

People have differing opinions about illegal immigration and how to deal with it. And I agree that litter is unsightly and it can damage ecosystems (although less in a desert than in a wetlands, for example). The point is that Chertoff thinks that littering is the “worst thing you can do to the environment”. The fact that he thinks this is a crisis more dire than global warming, destruction of the ozone layer, air pollution, water pollution, tropical rainforest destruction, etc. shows us that he’s deluded.

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