Waxman: State Department ‘Acting As Blackwater’s Enabler’
Waxman: State Department ‘Acting As Blackwater’s Enabler’
In this morning’s House Oversight hearing, Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) sharply criticized not only Blackwater USA, but also the State Department, which has authority over the contractor.
Waxman pointed to a Dec. 2006 incident, in which a drunken Blackwater contractor shot the guard of the Iraqi vice president:
The State Department advised Blackwater how much to pay the family to make the problem go away and then allowed the contractor to leave Iraq just 36 hours after the shooting. Incredibly, internal e-mails documented the debate over the size of the payment. The charge d’affaire recommended a $250,000 payment but this was cut to $15,000 because the diplomatic security service said Iraqis would try to get themselves killed for such a large payout.
Waxman noted that in light of such evidence, it’s hard “not come to the conclusion that the State Department is acting as Blackwater’s enabler.” Watch it:
Later in the hearing, Blackwater CEO Erik Prince confirmed that the company’s rules are dictated by the State Department and are not the “same rules as soldiers.”
Even after the most recent shooting incident in September, the State Department continued to cover up for Blackwater. The administration “discounted” an Iraqi report of the incident and instead supported Blackwater’s version of events.
Senior Iraqi officials have also “repeatedly complained to U.S. officials about Blackwater USA’s alleged involvement in the deaths of numerous Iraqis, but the Americans took little action to regulate the private security firm until” the most recent incident involving the deaths of 11 Iraqi civilians.
U.S. military officials are now pressing the State Department to “assert more control over” Blackwater, calling the debacle “worse than Abu Ghraib.”
Transcript:
The committee’s investigation raises as many questions about the State Department’s oversight of Blackwater as it does about Blackwater itself.
On December 24, 2006, a drunken Blackwater contractor shot the guard of the Iraqi vice president. This didn’t happen out on a mission protecting diplomats. It occurred inside the protected Green Zone. If this had happened in the United States, the contractor would have been arrested and a criminal investigation launched. If a drunken U.S. soldier had killed an Iraqi guard, the soldier would’ve faced a court martial. But all that has happened to the Blackwater contractor is that he has lost his job.
The State Department advised Blackwater how much to pay the family to make the problem go away and then allowed the contractor to leave Iraq just 36 hours after the shooting. Incredibly, internal e-mails documented the debate over the size of the payment. The charge d’affaire recommended a $250,000 payment but this was cut to $15,000 because the diplomatic security service said Iraqis would try to get themselves killed for such a large payout.
It was hard to read these e-mails and not come to the conclusion that the State Department is acting as Blackwater’s enabler.
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Rory=douchebag
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:33 pmI think you’ll find that the transcript should say “Chargé d’affaires”, TP, not “charged affairs.”
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:33 pmU.S. Military = subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
Blackwater = subject to the U.S. State Department (do whatever you want; we’ll cover you)
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:34 pmNot transcript, but Waxman quote preceding it.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:34 pmComment by “Rory” — October 2, 2007 @ 2:30 pm
I see you’re resorting to your old tactic of grabbing the first post to insert an idiotic, and inflammatory comment in a vain attempt to derail the thread, Jake.
Honestly…how could you not think you’d be recognized?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:36 pmThank god Blackwater is fighting over there, so that we don’t have to fight Bllackwater here. Yet.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:37 pmLater in the hearing, Blackwater CEO Erik Prince confirmed that the company’s rules are dictated by the State Department and are not the “same rules as soldiers.â€
How exactly can we expect to be respected by the world community, when we pull sh!t like this?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:38 pmAnd every Republican on the committee enabled Erik, as well, who laughed, smirked and grinned through the whole thing. He knows he’s untouchable.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 pmI didn’t realize this.
If Blackwater is under the control of the State Department, how reliable are the State Department’s unbiased reviews of the actions of Blackwater ?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pm“Calling Condoleeza Rice to the stand.”
“Ms. Rice?”
“Anyone seen Condoleeza Rice?”
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:44 pmMercenaries will continue to be out of control as long as Bushco allows it.
Where’s Condi?
Is she still ignoring her ‘visit’ to Congress? Is so, she better get ready;
Condi’s got some ’splain’n to do.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:45 pmand we all know who is the IG at the State Dept. Krongard.
another incompetant Bush appointee under investigation
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:46 pmRelated but unrelated…(in my best Rummyese)
Is Fox News America’s biggest threat?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:47 pmthey don’t call ‘em death squads for nothing.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:48 pmIt is working up to be another war crimes charge that should be handed down against Rice.
I agree with Trip that “Rory” sounds an awful lot like Jake.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:49 pmThese Blackwater thugs make our soldiers really look bad. And to no fault of their own.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pmThe troops have tried to do a credible job under enormous odds and unbearable strain and these rambo type thugs come on scene at 10 times the pay and with no supervision and lay waste to everything?
The whole job has been botched by a bunch of high paid thieves at the direction of the whitehouse and the republican members of congress. And lets not forget a few Democrats.
Another nail in the coffin of the republican party.
God Bless Blackwater, and ALL Americans, in harm’s way overseas.
Comment by Rory
For the record, this is classic jake. Anyone not on my “ignore list” can feel free to respond to my questions.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:52 pm“Rory” never misses an opportunity to claim female gender, whether directly addressed or not, kind of like “I’m a registered independent”, and “I’m a vet”, and “I’m 75″….
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:53 pm“Thank god Blackwater is fighting over there, so that we don’t have to fight Bllackwater here. Yet.”
But we are fighting Blackwater here in the US, in New Orleans Ward 9 and all the poor neighborhoods devastated by Katrina. Blackwater moved in there right after the hurricane and has refused to move out or allow residents to return to re-build.
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:54 pmComment by Menehune — October 2, 2007 @ 2:37 pm
Blackwater is already here. Who do you think is going to enforce martial law when Bush envokes directive 51?
October 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 pmAs far as the Blackwater issue goes (yeah it’s the thread topic, so of course I should ignore it…) I think it’s a lot more complicated that than “Blackwater bad” I know that’s not going to be popular and I’m more than willing to take my lumps here. the problem is bush, not blackwater. If we had military guards for the state dept. there very well could be the same level of violence happening. Blackwater’s first prioity is going to be erring on the side of protecting whatever suit is sitting in the back seat, because they’re getting paid to do that in an insanely crazy place. Don’t get me wrong, Im not defending shooting people in any way, but the reality is that bagdhad is beyond anyone’s comprehension of what hell is. Unless you’ve actually served there. I haven’t, by the way. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the boots on the ground are in an untenable position. Yes, they choose to go there for the big bucks, but most those guys are from poor cirucumstances and this is a chance for them to buy a farm, pay off the house, get seed money to start a business etc. They’re not (for the most part) cartoonish action figures who are looking for a reason to shoot.
Feel free to flame at will.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:02 pmIn the meantime, what happened to Waxman’s investigation of the U.S. Attorney scandal with Rove and Gonzalez? Have the Dems done a quid pro quo that they’d drop the investigation if Rove and Gonzo resigned? Is this, again, Dems letting Repugs stay out of jail?
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm“… a $250,000 payment but this was cut to $15,000 because the diplomatic security service said Iraqis would try to get themselves killed for such a large payout.”
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:06 pm- - I love the “Iraqi Irony Syndrome.” A real twofer; hysterical yet tragic at the same time.
Prince said that his Blackwater employees could not get a fair trial in Iraq if they were subject to Iraqi courts. Did anybody in the committee ask why that was? And if we agree that the Iraqi judicial system would not give an American a fair trial, why are we still there?
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:07 pmI don’t buy it, Bobwurst. Blackwater’s had more than twice as many shooting incidents as any other mercenary company, and the latest incident strongly suggests that their fire discipline is weak at best (not to mention the times Blackwater mercs have shot innocent Iraqis for fun).
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:09 pmI can’t believe that you guys think that Limbaugh is anti soldiers. Why not try listening to his show on a regular basis??
http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pmBlackwater is the next big scandal/embarrassment for America. It’s coming.
Let’s do the math:
Corporation + Guns + No Rules or Oversight = Bad News
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pmu bet
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:13 pmnail their asses.
I can’t believe that you guys think that Limbaugh is anti soldiers. Why not try listening to his show on a regular basis??
http://www.americanlegends.blogspot.com
Comment by JMEnglish — October 2, 2007 @ 3:12 pm
Cause I like thinking for my self, and I don’t need some arrogant cowardly buffoon to give me my opinion.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:13 pm#22…I’m sure you’re correct for the most part. The large majority of the guys that sign on for Blackwater duty are doing it for the pay and to help their families. However, it’s the few adrenaline junkie, Soldier of Fortune types you have to worry about. We can only pray that there will be some guys who say “no way” if they are ever turned on the American people. But the bottom line is that there only is a need for Blackwater because Bush is a bind — he needs more combat soldiers than he has available but he knows that even talking about a draft is the one thing that would pull the plug on this misadventure.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:14 pmUnfortunately, Bobwurst, they are cartoonish action figures - even other contractors resent the way these guys operate in Iraq. Look for the Blackwater turkey shoot video on youtube. No one is protecting any diplomats in that video. They’re playing Rambo, engaged in a gun battle. They’re digging it.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmBush to Condi Rice:”We must continue to support Blackwater in Iraq,the moment the Iraqis switch to Whitewater-you know what I mean-, we are in trouble”…
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmI can’t believe that you guys think that Limbaugh is anti soldiers. Why not try listening to his show on a regular basis??
No one is “anti-soldier”. It’s a completely moronic line of argument to begin with. The problem with you nitwits is that you start off with this kind of supremely idiotic nonsense and then we have to follow you onto the short bus.
Then we point out TONS of examples of simliar things to this behavior and you pretend there’s no relation to it all. It’s beginning to freak me out.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:17 pmA major milestone in setting up a facist society is to make sure the thugs working for you do not have any oversight and are out of reach of the judicial system. Here we have Blackwater - enabled by OUR State dept. - helping a murderer escape the country. Folks, please. the signposts to our demise are in full view. Why don’t we see them? It will be too late very soon for us to regain our republic.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:18 pmWasn’t it Hacker bob, an army professional who has seen at least one combat tour in Iraq, talking about what a pain in the ass the blackwater guys were a while back?
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:19 pmI’m not sure I buy it either, I’m certainly not defending every action Blackwater has taken. I agree they shouldn’t be there, but they are. It’s the policy of deliberatly undermanning the armed forces that creates the “necesity” of the contractors. All the contractors, the cooks, the truckdrivers, and the armed guards. The only shooting of civilians for fun that I’m aware of was the night train video and those people were not blackwater, as i recall. I agree that, from what I know from the media, the entire incident was most likely a huge and tragic mistake at best. I doubt it was an intentional act, if only because they were guarding a customer and that wouldn’t look good. I’m guessing that someone freaked out and once one bullet was fired, everyone started shooting.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:20 pmTwo things: one question that never gets raised is what incidents were Blackwater contractors involved in prior to the 2004 Fallujah incident that may have been causative factors in that rage-filled response? Secondly, I believe it was in 2005 or 2006, that DOD was directed to bring these mercenaries under the same guidelines as the military by Congress. Still hasn’t happened. So, the second question: WHY NOT???
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:36 pmBobwurst, they know they don’t have to answer to the UCMJ either now or later. Knowing that they won’t have to answer for wrong actions it would be surprising if they didn’t cross a lot of boundaries, given the chaotic conditions under which they work. The reports indicate that Blackwater is completely out of control.
For what it’s worth, sometime last year there was a report that U.S. soldiers in either Afghanistan or Iraq grew so pissed off about the mercenaries that they arrested and held a bunch of them for a while.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:38 pmFor God’s sake stop trusting corporations!
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:38 pmI’m guessing that someone freaked out and once one bullet was fired, everyone started shooting.
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 3:20 pm
Quite possibly true, which simply means they’re not qualified to be in the situation in the first place. If you haven’t read http://query.nytimes.com/ gst/ fullpage.html?res=9E0DE4DE173CF930A1575AC0A9619C8B63, you should.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:48 pmre #38
What do you think of the scenario that comes directly before the passage you quoted? Why would they deliberatly put their own paychecks in jeporady in that situation?
re#39
My understanding of the Fallajah incendent is that Fallajah was a former sunni stronghold that was full of ex military bathists who were really pissed off to begin with (this was bremmer’s fault) and the blackwater guys went into the city, against the advice of the military, because it looked like a short cut instead of driving around. they got lost, got cornered and got out of the car with guns. death, burning, and hanging ensued. The families of the dead are still in court with a suit against blackwater.
re #40
Yes, you’re right, there have been several cases of problems in Afghanistan, I recall one where blackwater guys pulled guns on an officer in a traffice disupte and then took off and the officer wasn’t able to do a damn thing. It’s not right, and I’m not defending everything Blackwater does, I’m only saying that the situation is more complex than it is sometimes presented.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:50 pm‘
re # 41 I’m not trusting corporations. ((I’m assming you’re referring to me?)
Re # 42
“Quite possibly true, which simply means they’re not qualified to be in the situation in the first place”
Gummicth
I don’t think anyone should be in that situation. period. Don’t you think that soldiers have over-reacted in Iraq as well? I’m not justifying what happened, but there are layers of nuance here. One of my complaints about the neocons is that they don’t seem to be able to see any side but their own, and their side is right because otherwise it wouldn’t be their side.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:55 pmto paraphrase something i just heard randi rhodes say:
the right wingers have been criticizing the troops from the beginning…
rummy told the soldiers “you go to war with the army you have, not
the one you want”…
so, they went out and BOUGHT the army they want, and look how
well THAT’s working out…
those contractors, and melanie morgan, and rush limpballs, and ALL the
other right wing bloviators - THEY ARE THE PHONY SOLDIERS.
ALL OF ‘EM… PHONY.
October 2nd, 2007 at 3:59 pm…
The jeporady is in behaving like an idiot in front of someone who can get them fired with one complaint. If the suit feels his or her life was needlessly put in jeporady because some idiot decided to shoot a random pedestrian that suit is going to tell his boss to get rid of that crew.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:15 pmre#39
My understanding of the Fallajah incendent is that Fallajah was a former sunni stronghold that was full of ex military bathists who were really pissed off to begin with (this was bremmer’s fault) and the blackwater guys went into the city, against the advice of the military, because it looked like a short cut instead of driving around. they got lost, got cornered and got out of the car with guns. death, burning, and hanging ensued. The families of the dead are still in court with a suit against blackwater.
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
Yes, Bobwurst. I’m aware of what we have been TOLD. I am questioning the veracity of this story. I would doubt that the rage we saw against those contractors were personal, in that it was those FOUR who had committed some violence against Iraqi civilians. I’m simply saying, I think it’s very possible that Blackwater (and other firms) had already established a reputation that some of the information is coming out now about…a number of years after they have been in Iraq.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm#47
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:28 pmThat was weak.
re # 48
you’re right, anything is possible. I don’t know that blackwater had a worse rep than any other american. I’d be willing to bet that if those four had been military they would have met the same fate.
do you have reason, (other than the fact that we’ve been lied to so many times that if an adminstration offical said the sun rises in the east I wouldn’t believe it until i checked the window)to doubt the veracity of what happened?
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:32 pmReally?????
You do know that there have been HUNDREDS of complaints against Blackwater??????
You logic does not hold water. PERIOD!
Comment by RemoveBush
Yes, I am aware of the complaints against blackwater. They are a major player in Iraq. What’s your point? That because there have been complaints about blackwater everything that every employee has ever done is automatically and without question completly without merit? Are you saying that there have never been and will never be a situation where, given the context that individual blackwater employees are in, on the ground, in Iraq, in a war zone where combatants dress like civilians, that they fired on individuals in self-defense? I am not arguing that we should have private contractors doing jobs that the military used to do. But this is the situation.
If it is there job to protect a high visibilty individual then yes, the jeporady is that they will lose their jobs if they act unprofessionally. that is not the same as being tried in a court of law,
Your agrument, that because there have been hundreds of complaints against Blackwater, all blackwater contractors are out of controll cowboys who are shooting people for the fun of it whenever they feel like it, has it’s share of holes as well my friend.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:43 pmre # 52
The problem I have with your line of reasoning is that it justifes anything. Since bush has lied any scenario is now fact.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pm#47
That was weak.
Comment by Bluedahlia
Have you ever been in that situation? I have, under considerably less stressful circumstances, but I’ve been there.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:48 pmWhen the US military starts fighting Blackwater in Iraq, which side will Jake, Mr. President, and MA be rooting for? I think it’s pretty obvious. They’ll attack the US troops as phony soldiers and they will be supporting Bush’s private army.
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pmIn Washington today, all eyes are on the Blackwater hearings. But the relentless focus on potential atrocities committed by unaccountable, grotesquely overpaid private security firms in Iraq and Afghanistan obscures the larger issue for the United States. That is, mercenary forces simply should have no place in the national defense of an American democracy.
For the details, see:
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:02 pm“The Meaning of Blackwater.”
RemoveBush
Shouting and using triple !!! isn’t going to win you any arguments. Feel free to believe what you want. I don’t know what blackwater is, i do know that it’s easy to paint with a broad brush. Naivty is in the eyes of the beholder my friend.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmre #58
I wholeheartedly agree.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:04 pmBlackwater’s first prioity is going to be erring on the side of protecting whatever suit is sitting in the back seat, because they’re getting paid to do that in an insanely crazy place.[…] the reality is that bagdhad is beyond anyone’s comprehension of what hell is…
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
war profits should be ILLEGAL… there should be NO BLACKWATER…
i understand the reasons - “to buy a farm, pay off the house…etc”…
but the bad manners exhibited in a foreign country are inexcusable…
it’s a “which came first - the chicken or the egg” kind of deal…
but I think bagdhad is hell because they made it that way…
…
no need to flame you… the comment was reasonable and logical…
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:05 pmi really put the blame on the corporatists…
and those few renegades are why it should not be allowed…
very bad form, all ’round…
.
God Bless Blackwater, and ALL Americans, in harm’s way overseas.
Comment by Rory
Right Wing Loon Rory blesses murderers. I wonder if s/he will bless them when they are on his/her doorstep to enforce martial law. My bet’s on yes. Rory is a good little brownshirt.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:07 pmone last point removebush.
declaring something with passion doesn’t make it so, whether it’s you saying “ILLOGICAL and WRONG thinking…Blackwater IS a criminal organization…… There is no IF’s, AND’s, or BUTT’s about it. ”
or bush saying “they hate us for our freedoms”.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:09 pmI agree with Trip that “Rory†sounds an awful lot like Jake.
Comment by VerbalKint
Isn’t it interesting that there is generally only one Right Wing Loon per thread? I wonder why that is.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:10 pmRe Katy,
thank you. I feel the need to go wash my hands…
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:10 pmI don’t think anyone should be in that situation. period. Don’t you think that soldiers have over-reacted in Iraq as well? I’m not justifying what happened, but there are layers of nuance here. One of my complaints about the neocons is that they don’t seem to be able to see any side but their own, and their side is right because otherwise it wouldn’t be their side.
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Our military is clearly better at handling these situations, and we know this because we have not heard of hundreds of incidents in which they handled themselves badly. Did you bother to read the linked NY Times article?
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:10 pmmr Baggins,
It seems I’ve been filling in for the right-wing loon on this thread.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:11 pmI can’t believe that you guys think that Limbaugh is anti soldiers. Why not try listening to his show on a regular basis??
Comment by JMEnglish
Now why, Right Wing Loon JMEnglish, would you want someone to do that. I tried to listen to Rush once. I ended up in ruining a perfectly good radio when I picked it up and threw it across the room. Made a pretty good dent in my wall too.
I choose to spend my time listening to people who have an open mind and who will consider all points of a situation. Rush is like Bush, “my way or the highway”. Since I am not a Lemming and I choose not to be brainwashed, I’ll pass on ever listening to this evil man ever again.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:15 pm“Our military is clearly better at handling these situations”
Gummich
I agree, and if we’d had 250000 pairs of boots on the ground like the grown-ups said we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I’m not defending prince, or bush, I’m defending people who, for the most part, are patriotic and did their time defending us and are now taking a grab for a leg up. I’m not in their shoes and I don’t know what I would do if I was 25 or 27, and had spent 7 years in the military getting crap for pay and then was offered a boat load of money to do the same thing for a while. I don’t know.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:18 pmremovebush.
fine, you win. feel better?
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:19 pmBlackwater, the Prince family and their operation is one of the most disturbing trends of the Republican “base†and the “privatization†of our “defense†community. The Prince family endorsed the violent overthrow of the Clinton administration and are now on the public dole, well the public millionaire dole.
Read “Blackwater†by Jeremy Scahill, scary stuff, coming to a city near you soon, in black fatigues without name tags or identification, or oversight of any kind.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:22 pmremovebush,
We are agruing two seperate things here. You make claims against a blackwater as though it is the Borg and all individuals are subsumed by the collective. When you claim that “It has been FACTUALLY proven that Blackwater is/has comitted criminal acts, both in Iraq and N.O. in the US.” you paint with a broad brush. It has been FACTULLY proven that Lindsey England committed horrible acts in Abu Grabib. Does that PROVE that all national Guardsmen are horrible people?
You are arguing abour YOUR FACTS and heaven help anyone who gets in the way of your dogma cuz your dogma bites.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:42 pm“have FACTS to show that Blackwater is a renegade organization, but Bush only has his OPINION.
See the difference???
Probably not”
removebush,
The danger here is that bush thinks his opinions are FACTS. Just like you. See the similarities>
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:45 pmprobably not…
Yet, you FAIL to acknowledge that if they will comit ILLEGAL acts against US citizens then they CERTAINLY will not all of a sudden gain morals for someone NOT an American.
Comment by RemoveBush
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:47 pmread what you said, and then substitute saddam for they (blackwater) and wmd for ILLEGAL…
Bobwurst,
The thing both Blackwater and Lindsey England have in common is management, that either turn a blind eye, or actively promote callous behavior. Ms. England was subject to the UCMJ, Blackwater even though they are receiving tax money are accountable to nobody.
Read “Blackwater” by Jeremy Scahill. Be afraid be very afraid.
October 2nd, 2007 at 5:52 pmre # 48
you’re right, anything is possible. I don’t know that blackwater had a worse rep than any other american. I’d be willing to bet that if those four had been military they would have met the same fate.
do you have reason, (other than the fact that we’ve been lied to so many times that if an adminstration offical said the sun rises in the east I wouldn’t believe it until i checked the window)to doubt the veracity of what happened?
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
The fact that we HAVE been lied to, constantly, is exactly the reason I doubt the veracity of what happened. I happened to believe that story at the time (in 2004), but I’ve been watching events for the past 3 years since then, and see that this administration is quite willing to lie about anything in order to defend themselves from being held accountable. I also believe that they are quite capable of DOING anything to avoid being held accountable, including dissolving Congress and declaring martial law.
I understand that you are trying to see both sides here, in order to get to some measure of the truth. But I would dare you to see that there really are not two sides in reality, but only two sides on a single coin. The currency is power…for the sake of power alone. Not to change things, but to maintain the basic system. If anyone any longer thinks that a larger majority of Democrats in Congress or a Democratic President with a majority in at least one House is going to make a difference…then tell me how. Tell me how a “non-binding resolution” against Iran was passed with a majority of Dems voting in favor. That funding for the war continues, with a majority of Dems voting in favor. What is the REAL difference between Clinton and Guliani in this race? I don’t believe there is a political solution for what’s wrong with America anymore, because it’s the system itself that is the problem. And it has been for at least 60 years.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:02 pmIt seems I’ve been filling in for the right-wing loon on this thread.
Comment by Bobwurst
Maybe that’s because you have been acting like one. My bet is that you are a fundamentalist Christian and you got the “call to arms” by your religious leader to come to the defense of Blackwater.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:08 pmWaxman needs to get a life. He has done nothing but be an assassin for the Left.
Gee, wouldn’t it be great if Congress actually did the people’s business instead of character assassinations? Democrats have sounded like a bunch of cry-babies who hate everything about this country. After all, you never hear them say anything positive, have you?
By the way……for those of you who like to remind everyone how low Bush’s approval rating is, Congress’ is STILL lower!
Ouch! You must be proud of the job your guys are doing. Republicans even had better ratings!
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:20 pmIt is not just liberal bloggers or Democrats in congress who are upset with Blackwater. Our own military is upset with them too…because they are overpaid, unnaccountable, and creating more enemies among the Iraqi people with their reckless behavior.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:25 pmIt just makes common sense, that if you know their are NO consequences to your action, you will be a lot less Carefull about the sensibilities of the Iraqis . Remember that the insurgency really took off after the injustices at Abu Ghraib became known.
Gee, wouldn’t it be great if Congress actually did the people’s business instead of character assassinations? Democrats have sounded like a bunch of cry-babies who hate everything about this country. After all, you never hear them say anything positive, have you?
Comment by MaverickCoast
Let’s all give a resounding welcome to the latest Right Wing Loon Maverick. Welcome - stick around so we can make mincemeat out of you.
I’m sorry that you have such a problem with oversight. Considering the fact that there was zero oversight of our government for the last 6 years, the Democrats are a little busy now catching up. Besides, what else do they have to do with their time. When they try to pass a law the “up or down vote” Republics block them by filibustering (meaning obstructing) and if they actually pass a bill, even with huge bipartisan support (Like the SCHIP bill), Bush will veto it. I say that the Democrats should just announce that they will be spending all their time investigating the crimes committed by the Bush Crime Family for the last six years and stop wasting their time trying to pass legislation.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:25 pmBy the way……for those of you who like to remind everyone how low Bush’s approval rating is, Congress’ is STILL lower!
You are correct, Bush is at 33% and Congress is at 29%. But, the Republicans in Congress are rated at 29% and the Democrats at 38%. And, most of the anger at Congress is because they have not stopped the war in Iraq.
Part of the displeasure with Congress stems from the stalemate between Democrats and the White House over Iraq policy. Most Americans do not believe Congress has gone far enough in opposing the war, with liberal Democrats especially critical of their party’s failure to force the president into a significant change in policy.
And here’s the really bad news for the Republics:
By a 2 to 1 margin, those who see little accomplishment in Congress’s first nine months blame the inaction on Bush and the GOP more than they do the majority Democrats. Fifty-one percent place primary fault with the president and congressional Republicans, and 25 percent on the Democrats. Among independents, 43 percent blame Republicans, 23 percent Democrats and nearly three in 10 blame both sides equally.
Read it and weep Right Wing Loon.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:32 pmRe Katy, thank you. I feel the need to go wash my hands…
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
um… you’re welcome? … i guess i don’t get it…
hope it wasn’t something i said…
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:37 pm…
“Republicans even had better ratings!”
Not true, if you mean the Republic666an component of Congress.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:40 pmYes, I am aware of the complaints against Blackwater. They are a major player in Iraq…
…If it is there job to protect a high visibilty individual then yes, the jeporady is that they will lose their jobs if they act unprofessionally. that is not the same as being tried in a court of law,
Comment by Bobwurst — October 2, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
It has nothing to do with any of that. This is a private company making PROFITS by taking over the duties historically delegated to our military. The military, with its required oversight, many layers of laws, both domestic and international, that they must follow. The military, with the higher level of conduct it must aspire to, or risk the wrath of We the People.
Blackwater, on the other hand, has no such oversight. Blackwater must do whatever it can to generate profits. The only reliable, long-term way for Blackwater to do so, is to either escalate existing wars they are involved in, or to persuade the government they work for for become involved in further conflicts. Regardless, they are a corporation whose very existence requires there to be active military needs for them to fill. Or…to expand their business to include working for other entities, be they sovereign nations, or international corporate interests. In other words, to fully embrace what all mercenary companies must eventually: Privately-owned para-military outfits must work for whomever will pay them for their services. If there is competition for their services, they work for the highest bidder. If someone of foreign allegiance is qualified to work for your company, you hire them, and pay them accordingly.
There should never, under any circumstances, be mercenaries working for the United States government. Period. No military action for profits. No military action by those whose motives rest firmly with their profits, rather than their country.
Also, no private contractors doing the job the military can do itself (i.e. cooking, cleaning, digging ditches, etc.). Our military has historically worked so well in part BECAUSE it is able to be so self-sufficient. Most all of the duties were “in-house”, not contracted out. Such self-sufficiency protects national security, prevents corruption, and prepares our armed service men and women for more that life (especially military life) throws at them.
Some things should NOT be privatized. Armed conflict is one of those things. It leads nowhere good, and many places that are dark, and horrific.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:49 pmGuards working in Iraq for Blackwater USA have shot innocent Iraqi civilians and have sought to cover up the incidents, sometimes with the help of the State Department, a report to a Congressional committee said today.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:53 pmDo you believe the U.S. government in any way helped in the cover up of Blackwater reckless behavior? —–> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=622
bilbobaggins: …..blame the inaction on Bush and the GOP more than they do the majority Democrats
You guys keep up your attack on America and it sure won’t be that way come election time! With the likes of Move On.org and Media Matters, you guys will go down. These organizations in no way represent middle America, ie. mainstream America. You’re nuts if you think so.
Besides, what have the Democrats brought to America’s table that addresses the important issues BESIDES the war? The Democrats have
only done two things. Attack our troops/this war (Durbin among others) and led character assassinations against anyone who is a threat to them (Can you say ‘Rush’?)
All I’ve heard is griping, complaining, and attacks on whoever they can latch on to. It’s time for the Democrats to grow up and at least act like mature adults and show some respect to others who may not agree with them. Unfortunately, the LEFT is dividing this country with it’s HATE and attacks on a vast majority of Americans.
As long as the Left’s smoke screen is working, you have nothing to worry about. As soon as the truth comes out, the Left is doomed!
Soros, the one who is practically calling all the shots via his political organizations, is probably one of the most dangerous influences to our electorate process and our country as a whole!
Lapping up his FAR LEFT beliefs and agenda will lead to your demise.
October 2nd, 2007 at 6:56 pmIt seems I’ve been filling in for the right-wing loon on this thread.
Comment by Bobwurst
Maybe that’s because you have been acting like one. My bet is that you are a fundamentalist Christian and you got the “call to arms†by your religious leader to come to the defense of Blackwater.
Comment by bilbobaggins
Actually I’m a Unitarian. If you think that I’m defending Blackwater you are missing my point. That’s the way it goes. I’ll take another run at it. I am one of those liberals who is completly against the war but supports the troops. I mean that. That doesn’t mean I support everything they do. I don’t support what England the the others did, but I also realize that didn’t happen in isolation.
England, and most everyone else who is/was/ and will/ be serving in the military is there for several reasons. One is patriotism, but another big motivation is using their service as a stepping stone to better their place in the world.
Blackwater, and the other military contractors are another step down that line for the guys who are in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do I approve of that? No, do I understand why some people make that choice? Yes.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:04 pmKaty, it was nothing you said, I needed to wash my hands because I chose a dirty position to argue.
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:07 pmLapping up his FAR LEFT beliefs and agenda will lead to your demise.
Comment by MaverickCoast — October 2, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
Far Left? he’s calling for the complete dissolution of private property? Or are you just so far right, that normal, and reasonable looks far left to you? Well, we all know that answer!
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:44 pmYou guys keep up your attack on America and it sure won’t be that way come election time! With the likes of Move On.org and Media Matters, you guys will go down. These organizations in no way represent middle America, ie. mainstream America. You’re nuts if you think so. Comment by MaverickCoast — October 2, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
Yeah, it’s not like polling shows the majority of Americans agree with these organizations on virtually every issue - oh wait, the polls say exactly that!!!!
But don’t let reality, bias your bias!!!
October 2nd, 2007 at 7:45 pmYou and I are PAYING for mercenaries to kill people in our names at ten times what it would cost for American soldiers to do the same. I don’t agree with either, but if the Democrats can’t say that plainly, they all need to go home. The Republicans need to go to jail. Will that ever happen?
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:14 pm