White House Retaliates Against UK For Withdrawal: ‘British Forces Have Performed Poorly’ In Iraq
White House Retaliates Against UK For Withdrawal: ‘British Forces Have Performed Poorly’ In Iraq
This week, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that he would reduce British presence in Iraq from 5,500 troops to 4,500 by Christmas. The Guardian reports today that Brown will cut “significantly more than the 1,000 announced yesterday” by next year.
In response to the withdrawal announcement, the White House has decided to slander Britain. The Daily Telegraph reports today that a senior White House official has revoked Britain’s status of being “the closest Bush ally“:
“There’s concern about Brown,” a senior White House foreign policy official told The Daily Telegraph. “But this is compensated by the fact that Paris and Berlin are much less of a headache. The need to hinge everything on London as the guarantor of European security has gone.”
The White House official added that Britain would always be “the cornerstone” of US policy towards Europe but there was “a lot of unhappiness” about how British forces had performed in Basra and an acceptance that Mr Brown would pull the remaining 4,500 troops out of Iraq next year.
“Operationally, British forces have performed poorly in Basra,” said the official. “Maybe it’s best that they leave. Now we will have a clear field in southern Iraq.”
When Britain’s future in Iraq was up for debate, however, the White House showered praise on the new Prime Minister. “I found a person who shares [my] vision and who understands the call,” President Bush said of Gordon Brown in July. “You’ve proved your worthiness as a leader, and I thank you for that.”
The White House has also praised the work of British troops. “[T]hey had made progress in southern Iraq,” said Vice President Cheney in February.
A British diplomatic source elaborated on Bush’s new distance from Britain. “In the White House there’s a sense of enormous change from Blair. They used to be on the phone to Blair all the time and that’s no longer the case because Brown clearly wants to be the unBlair,” the source said.
Topic Cloud
ArchivesBlog Roll
How typical.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pmNice.
Coalition of the willing, or a looser. Only 2 options….
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:37 pm4500 or 0 really doesn’t matter. They are just one more country ready to declare defeat against terrorism. Luckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmHey, just holding true.. If you’re not with us, you’re against us.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmGee I guess Bush is no longer BFF with England. Bet they are sick about that. Looks like England’s young get a few more years to live.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:42 pmI’m unclear—have we gone from “It’s all the Iraqis fault” to “It’s all the British fault”? There are two Latvian soldiers left—-we could blame it on them. I know. I know. It’s all Pelosi and Reid’s fault. Yeah that’s right!
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pm“Operationally, British forces have performed poorly in Basra,â€
Not enough of them died?
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:45 pmGuess the fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here didn’t work for England. Bush’s loyalty is til he doesn’t need you anymore.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 pm4500 or 0 really doesn’t matter. They are just one more country ready to declare defeat against terrorism. Luckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
Comment by Roger_Roger — October 3, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
How long was your brain in that Freedom Frier?
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm“There’s concern about Brown,†a senior White House foreign policy official told The Daily Telegraph.
A “senior White House official”.
Sorry, I am not ready to get all excited about this anonymous quote. When a real person in the government says something like this, it is outrage worthy. This amounts to gossip.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pmAnd no one gets it that Bush pushes blame on everyone else…Petraues you will be hung out to dry for your loyalty when Georgie needs a scapegoat. After all we know how he listens to “his Generals” or fires them.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 pmThe people of Britain never wanted their troops in Iraq in the first place—only their government. They want out. There was over one million protesters in the streets of London Feb 15, 2003. The Australian people want out. The American people want out.
Set up Arab League and international peacekeepers and get the Coalition occupiers out. Leave Iraqi and Iranian oil to their people.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:49 pmNow wait a minute! Previously it was announced that the reason Britain could leave Basre was because they were effective and had done the job. Now the WH is saying they did a poor job.
The only logical conclusion to reconcile the two is if “getting the job done” is equal to “doing a poor job”.
Of course in Shrub’s mind, maybe he’s failed so many businesses that he truly believes that.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:50 pmOoh. Snap! Take that! Great Britain, we invite you to please, unload right back–c’mon Tony, Gordon–tell these friggin’ asswipes what you really think. For once.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pmif you cant fu*k them over, just slander them….
its the rePUKElican way!
hows that FAILED policy working for ya pukes?
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:51 pmAnd let me add, Blair followed Shrub around like a toy poodle. At the same time, Blair lost power (probably related to the impression that he was Shrub’s poodle).
In short, yet another entry in the long line of people who worked hard to please Shrub and took the bullet because of it – only to be rewarded by being disgraced.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pmAnd our reaction is “sour grapes!” How mature.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:55 pmAt least the Brits got rid of Tony how come we still have Bush and Cheney ?
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:55 pmThis government seriously needs to take a class in “How to win friends and influence people”. Thus far they have insulted and alienated any possible allies we have in the world.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:56 pmWhen a real person in the government says something like this, it is outrage worthy. This amounts to gossip. — Comment by Keltoi — October 3, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
Keltoi: you need to learn how to read the tea leaves. “A senior WH foreign policy official” is government/journalist-speak for someone who IS a senior WH foreign policy official that would only agree to speak either on background or otherwise not for attribution. They do this whenever they want their comments to hit the media, but they don’t want anyone to know who, specifically, is making the comments.
Think of it as the last refuge of the cowards that currently inhabit the White House — they want to throw mud at people who don’t toe the Bushco line, but they don’t want anyone to know who’s really throwing the mud.
By the way, there’s often a game here in the DC area to figure out who it is that’s saying these things, based on how they’re described in the press. “A senior WH foreign policy official” often means someone like Condi Rice, Steven Hadley or someone at that level. My money’s on Hadley here…
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:58 pmIn short, yet another entry in the long line of people who worked hard to please Shrub and took the bullet because of it – only to be rewarded by being disgraced.
Comment by MapleStreet — October 3, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
And just think of how well this is going to go over with anybody we might need help from in the future…
Maybe Bush never heard the axiom about burning one’s bridges.
October 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 pm4500 or 0 really doesn’t matter. They are just one more country ready to declare defeat against terrorism. Luckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
Comment by Roger_Roger
Now that was really funny. Thanks for the laugh Right Wing Loon Roger Squared.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmHow childish and embarassing.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:00 pmOnce Britain pulls out, how far away is Poland?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:01 pmTP is attributing the comments like they are official White House Statements, but in reality, it’s an unnamed source. Is that the best you can do? Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
Gee, Captain Moronic — is it REALLY so difficult for you to click on the little link in the TP post to find out that TP isn’t attributing ANYTHING — that this is how it was reported in the Daily Telegraph itself, and TP was just reporting how it appeared in that brit paper? Oh, but then that would require you to actually try to understand and participate in an actual discussion, which you’re clearly not up to.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmDon’t fret, Britain… when our dollar finishes its plunge, you can buy all our stuff cheap. I think we will be having a massive going-out-of-business sale in another six months.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 pmTP, where is the article with Said Tayeb Jawad that was promised yesterday? I have been looking forward to that.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:03 pmKeltoi: you need to learn how to read the tea leaves. “A senior WH foreign policy official†is government/journalist-speak for someone who IS a senior WH foreign policy official that would only agree to speak either on background or otherwise not for attribution.
I get the game, but it is only a game. If the leaker were really highly placed, would they be leaking to a British paper as opposed to the NYT or the WaPo, the favored gossip outlets? This is so counter-productive to Bush’s agenda that it can’t come from too close to Bush himself – it is the type of thing I’d expect out of the State Department. British media isn’t famous for being pro-Bush or pro-Iraq – what was the context of the question and the answer? We don’t know.
Again, somebody said something….I attach little weight to unamed sources. If that is your burden of proof, you could justify anything.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm“Operationally, British forces have performed poorly in Basra”
F*CK you Bush and your retarded cronies.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmThe only reason we’re in Iraq is because of Blair’s ass licking…At least Brown seems to be standing up for British interests now…Long may it continue.
This is why the Rush comment is relevant. Here we have the White House basically trashing the service of British troops as poor performers. Not British policy makers, but “British forces.” The soldiers. Again, because they chosen to not fall in line with American directives and take a different course of action.
Maybe the Brits are just phony soldiers, too, and their losses don’t count.
I can’t wait to hear the righties defend this one.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmProgressives here seem easy to manipulate.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
Republicans here seem easy to manipulate, and prone to project their own inadequacy on others.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm“Now the WH is saying they did a poor job.†Is the WH really saying that?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 3:59 pm
From the London Daily Telegraph story, attributed to a senior WH foreign policy official: “Operationally, British forces have performed poorly in Basra,†said the official.
Yep, Captain Moronic — looks like the WH really IS saying that. Next?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmI’m glad the Brits are getting a taste of what it is like when you lay down with the Bush dogs.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:05 pmThere really is no benefit in allowing yourself to get rolled by a Bush.
Bush’s demand absolute loyalty to their aristocracy, yet the moment you are no longer any use to them, they sh*t all over you.
Welcome to the club, Britain!
See any problems with the press being able to report whatever they want, while only quoting unnamed sources? Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
See any problems with the Republicans controlling all of the sources, and clamping down on anyone that isn’t anonymous?
I know you’re not happy with it, but if someone’s unwilling to say something on the record, the quote has no meaning.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
If the Republicans retaliate against anyone that speaks on the record, then the on the record quotes have no meaning.
See, I’ve corrected your ‘manipulated’ ditto head response for the real world, mantic.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:06 pmThe GOP shows why the old saying goes, if you lay with dogs, you get bighting fleas and ticks. Right capt. ManTick?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:07 pmMr Brown would pull the remaining 4,500 troops out of Iraq next year.
Hey! Does that make Gordon Brown a “phony” Prime Minister?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmLondon Calling!
Dogfather, I’m with you; my bet is on Hardley, too. A born gossip, him.
Well, we still have Albanina. err, Austria. ahem, ah, Australia. heh heh.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmBush throws everyone under the bus who doesn’t agree with him. Isn’t this an old mafioso tactic? It’s certainly a tactic used by a mental midget.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pmI know you’re not happy with it, but if someone’s unwilling to say something on the record, the quote has no meaning. Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
If this was true, Captain Moronic, then nothing would ever come out of the Bushco White House — since we know that they’ve become quite good at getting their stories out into the press on background, without attribution. Whether we like it or not isn’t the issue — it’s been going on for many, many years and in many, many administrations.
So trying to say that it’s only a rumor when the journalistic code words for “on background only; not for attribution” are present in the story indicates either that (a) you don’t understand how this WH press corps thing operates; or (b) the square-peg facts aren’t fitting into your little round-hole view of the world, so you’re just going to ignore them.
Or perhaps both.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pmAnd just think of how well this is going to go over with anybody we might need help from in the future…
Maybe Bush never heard the axiom about burning one’s bridges.
Comment by missmolly
Based on Bush’s many, many failures I doubt he thinks of anything. He has been saved his entire life by others (Dad, Jim Baker, Barney) so he has no mechanism in his brain to even fathom the idea of burning bridges.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pmSoon PsychoChimp will have a self-fulfilled prophesy…..he’ll be left with only Laura and Barney.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:09 pmHey at least the Brits did do something and removed Tony from office what have we Americans done? Nothing !
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmStratRat: It’s called total irresponsibility for one’s actions”. He’s classic.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmWhat a complete screw-up by this White House. Par for the course.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmComment by The Dogfather — October 3, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
Correcto. In the past, it was usually Libby or Rove wanting to get something in the press—–like Curveball’s claims of WMD. But without the responsibility attached, so no harm coming back at them.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:10 pmI know you’re not happy with it, but if someone’s unwilling to say something on the record, the quote has no meaning.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
Respectfully, this person has absolutely no idea how DC operates.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmEveryone on the planet thinks the war in Iraq is not helping the war on terror. But the remaining Republicans think that we are all wrong. It’s like that commercial where the guy has a slice of pizza on his face and every keeps trying to tell him about it, but he doesn’t get it. Except in this case 4,000 American boys are dead because a few remaining idiots can’t get the net. The idiocy is staggering.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmtexaslady: You’re right. At least the Brits are running their own country, unlike us. At least the brits have the spine to remove a quasi-dictator and an unpopular leader – unlike us. I cringe when I imagine how we are viewed as a country by the rest of the world. ewwwwww….
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:11 pmis there going to be another “freedom fries” push? fish and chips will become “liberty meal”
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmbyne: The repukes have far too much invested personally now to tell the truth. They’ve signed on to go down with the sinking, stinking ship.
The ones up for re-election will soon break rank with their colleagues in order to remain in office…it’s called “conscience by proxy”.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 pmAnd just wait, when things go badly in Iraq after 2008, they will say it was the fault of our own troops, Democrats, the press, or anyone except the Republican president who started the war and the Republican congresscritters who enabled him.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:13 pmI’m trying to find away to reach the London Times editorial page to apologize for our country and our Idiot in Chief. Anyone have an email for them?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:13 pmLuckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
Comment by Roger_Roger — October 3, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
Democracy… unless you don’t like the results.
Freedom… unless the President doesn’t like you, in which case you can be thrown into a cell and left there for life, no judge or jury necessary.
Free markets… backed by the might of the american military if the free market gets threatened.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:13 pmWhat the repukes are in for is a huge surprise when they find that no one will be supporting them or their candidates.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:14 pmDo I have to smash all my Rolling Stones records?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:14 pmRoger_Roger: ahahahahahahahah! Democracy?? Right! How about a fascist dictatorship – that would be more apropos.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmCaptainPervname, are you really that naive?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmWhite House Retaliates Against UK For Withdrawal: ‘British Forces Have Performed Poorly’ In Iraq
It’s like the NYT headline: Bush administration planned an orchestraed the 9/11 attacks! Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
Well Ali Amerika, the guy that trained, and setup the Al Qaeda camps was a CIA agent… He was responsible for the first WTC bombing, and the CIA/FBI not only kept him free, but kept him out of the trial. So believe what you want, but a CIA agent was involved.
But further down the column they reference the veterans for truth. Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
Wow, covering multiple items in a story – imagine that!
Is that responsible? Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
You, a GOP hack, lecturing on responsible? You can’t even read a Rush transcript without lying and being irresponsible, tic.
If TP posts a headline like that, they are taking ownership of it. And the story is based on an unnamed source. Nothing, but a hit to it’s own credibility.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
If you post the sh!t you post, then you’re responsible for looking like a fool. Then again, why would you care about credibility, since you have none?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmlefty: no need to apologize. Everyone in that country knows what an idiot government we have.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pmIf the leaker were really highly placed, would they be leaking to a British paper as opposed to the NYT or the WaPo, the favored gossip outlets? This is so counter-productive to Bush’s agenda that it can’t come from too close to Bush himself – it is the type of thing I’d expect out of the State Department. Comment by Keltoi — October 3, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
Well of COURSE it’s the State Department, Keltoi. As noted earlier, it’s either Condi herself, or Hadley (who, although not at State now, certainly is a “senior WH foreign policy official”). And the reason they’d be leaking to the Brit press: cuz who’s gonna care more that the US administration is slamming Brit soldiers — the American public or the British public? So why in the world would they leak to the US press, who might not even run with the story?
Finally, it’s not particularly counter-productive to the Bush agenda; in fact, it’s quite in line with the Bush mentality of “don’t cross us or we’ll flame you”. Now that Bush’s puppet John Major is gone, having been replaced by Gordon Brown who (a) Bushco can’t stand, and (b) does things like pulling out the UK troops from Iraq that Bushco doesn’t like, the Bushies are simply trying to show Brown and anyone else who would DARE be contrary to the Bush agenda what might happen.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm#48 Don’t cringe just go on the Internet and check the newspapers in other countries. We are just pitied or supremely hated. And how can you blame the rest of the world with what we have allowed to happen? Many of my ex-patriots friends wonder why we have not kicked Bush/Cheney out of office.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmveritas-nice to be back. I cannot believe the degree of incompetence in foreign relations this administration shows. These guys have set us back 80 years.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:16 pmWhite House: ‘We were for the Brits before we were against them’.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pmAnyone have an email for them?
Comment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
The Guardian and the Independent are much better than the Times, which was too conservative before Murdoch owned it.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:17 pmYou know this all brings me back full circle to that momentous day when our Chimp was asked if he’d EVER made a mistake in his life. Anyone remember that fine day?
After stammering in his typical moronic way, he rolled his eyes to heaven and uttered those words which will ring in our ears long after this democracy is gone and GWB is in prison: “Gee…I must have made a mistake somewhere along the line, but (smirk, chuckle) I really can’t think of one right now”…..duh!
We should have know that this statement would be the hallmark of his presidency…..as the very “worst president EVER in this history of this country”.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmI just got a call from a friend in london. He works in defense and they are pissed off about the comments regarding subpar performance by the Brits in Basra. They are very angry about the slap in the face. the brits are a very proud group of people and this is not the last we will hear about this. The coalition of the one.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm“Maybe it’s best that they leave. Now we will have a clear field in southern Iraq.â€
What I want to know is, clear for what? What does this statement mean?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm“Luckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
Comment by Roger_Roger”
God bless you rogeroger for defending fleadom and flea markets!
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
Keep spinning, Captain Moronic. Don’t let the fact that there are quotation marks in TP’s headline get in the way of your “facts”…just keep trying to pound that square peg into that round hole…
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmkeith- thanks
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmTo Bush “Denial” is simply just some river in Egypt. He never had a clue and never will.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pmWow. Bush is not only the worst President in the history of mankind … he’s a bloody, embarrassment for all of us Yanks!
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pmBush will now bully the Brits. Gotta love his consistency though, unfortunately, it’s consistently disgusting.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pmSo now we can chalk off the Brits as our allies – who’s left?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pmI just our “childrens” learn from this.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:20 pmBackstabbing.
Flip-flopping.
Armed Mercenaries.
Child Killers.
Monpolistic Corporate Whores.
Liars.
And that’s just the State Department! Now on to the White House…
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pmImagine what they think of mighty iceland – they withdrew thwir single observer from the coalition this year too. Poor coalition.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:21 pmJeez, talk about sour grapes. Disgusting. Hey, if the British are not with us, are they now to be considered against us?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pmI just hope our “childrens†learn from this.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pmGDumbya and the Keystone Kops are just pulling the “you can’t quit, you’re fired” routine on the Brits. It’s no big deal. Several U.S. military generals have been graced with this treatment as well.
As usual, GDumbya has to come up with an excuse and, of course, it’s always someone else’s fault. He sure wouldn’t want anything piercing that bubble that he lives in.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:22 pmLeftcoast,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
bbc’s site is good, too.
I’m on the leftcoast. What they call the central coast of California, S.L.O. County.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm75, Cap’t Man,
2 words: Robert F*c’n Novak.
See how it works? Get out of that rabbit hole & look around; it’s open season on freedom!
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:23 pmComment by Keith — October 3, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 pmThanks for the website. I’m on the very southern end. I love Cambria.
I’m on the leftcoast. What they call the central coast of California, S.L.O. County. -Comment by Keith
OT:
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pmHey, Keith, I’m on the North Coast, MN. Spent 2 weeks backpacking between SLO & the coast once. Stumbled onto the El Diablo nuclear plant and was facing a loaded rifle pointing at me. I guess they thought I was a terrorist coming to do harm. Got out of there quick! Just wanted to say you live in some of the most beautiful country I’ve ever seen.
Peace.
Hmmm what can we ban, French Fries, oh no that was France. What do the Brits have that we can all stop buying ? Actually I think we should send them congratulations for waking up.
Can we please learn from them pleasssssse
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:27 pmComment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
You mean the San Diego area?
Cambria is nicer than my area, about 30 miles south of that.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:28 pmBut, explain to me, how the technique could not be abused by either less than credible reporting or more likely a disgruntled foreign policy official (or poser) that has a score to settle?
Certainly there can be abuse in citing ‘un-named sources’, but the simple fact is that is how it is done. It would be best to name names for attribution, but that would also tamp down on any coverage – certainly sensitive coverage – which needs to come out. Sometimes the leak will be strategic and abused the way you describe. Sometimes the leak must come out anyway it can so we can learn the news. I thank God journalists have the trust of powerful men and women in government so we can learn what’s going in over there. I also wish we could trust this administration to tell us the truth all the time – but we cannot.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pmComment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
You’re not making any kind of sense. What is it you don’t understand about senior WH foreign policy official?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 pmKeith- smack in the middle of San Diego. Born and raised. I think the central coast of california is absolutely fantastic country. We’re headed to Cambria very soon.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pmNow we will have a clear field in southern Iraq.â€
Comment by Candyce — October 3, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
This statement bothers me too Candyce. What’s in southern Iraq?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:31 pmShiites with friendly relations to Iran. I’m afraid Bush is choosing sides in this civil war. He’s giving Sunni Shieks money and weapons. He’s making threats against Iran and Shiite militias.
A clear field to do what??? Sucks to have a government you can’t trust.
I bet they talked to Cheney.
I can’t wait till we get some actual grownups into the Whitehouse again.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmComment by Zimzone — October 3, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
When global warming really kicks in, Minnesota will be on our northern coast.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:32 pmThis is a beautiful area. We are really spoilt weather-wise. Days in the middle of the winter or summer might be 70 degrees—instead of 0 or 100 like other places.
Yo’ Cap’n Mantastic,
You said:
Sooo, riddle me this, it was perfectly “OK” for the Bush Administration to LIE THROUGH THEIR TEETH to not only the American People, but to the planet about the intelligence they based the invasion of Iraq upon, but we should be EXTRA careful to vett the sources of single comment attributed to the White House???? Gimmie a break.
This President has declared war upon the American Middle Class and you suggest we should take the high ground in any opposition. Again, gimmie a break.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:34 pmI get the game, but it is only a game. If the leaker were really highly placed, would they be leaking to a British paper as opposed to the NYT or the WaPo, the favored gossip outlets?
Yes, they would leak it to the British newspapers because they knew by doing that it would actually get printed. The NYT and the WAPO carried water for Bush in the lead up to the Iraq invasion and they are carrying water for Bush in the lead up to invading Iran. Occasionally they post something of note, but for the most part the only way an American can really find out what is going on in our country is to read the British newspapers.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:35 pmYou mean the San Diego area?
Cambria is nicer than my area, about 30 miles south of that.
Comment by Keith
I’m in central San Diego also…
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:37 pmCaptMantastic,
Don’t you remember the Judith Miller-Scooter Libby-Curveball-WMD-refusal to reveal source-story? It was really in the papers a lot. Look it up.
I still think your name is gay.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:39 pmCap’nMantastic,
Hey, at this point in the Bush Coup you could say to me:
… and I’d swear to it. What goes around, comes around. “Remember Karl Rove” and stop whining when it’s your turn in the barrel, huh!
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm#100 No, we just have to watch what Bush/Cheney do and it speaks for itself. Are you kidding or do you believe the crap you are tossing out ?
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:44 pmI live near Mesa College.
The rest of us seem to understand how the “unnamed White House offical” game works, Cap. Unnamed sources talk to journalists all the time, for a variety of reasons. Why are acting like this is something unusual?
If you were to tell me an unnamed MoveOn.org representative told you something, I’d probably want to see your press credentials.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:47 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
I live near Mesa College.
Comment by leftcoast
I live in Clairemont also (clairemont mesa & I52). I grew up in the Mt. streets by Balboa/Genesee aves. So it is a small world after all.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:51 pmEngland did sacrifice a lot . England was part of the initial attack on Iraq…
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:54 pmEngland lost a lot of soldiers,and a lot went home losing body parts. When England joined the fight from start in Iraq, they thought this war will be wrapped up fast…but they never thought this is going to be a ‘long journey to the unknown’.
They finally decided time to leave. And if Sarkozy of France thinking of sending French troops like Aznar of Spain..he will not last in as president of France for a long time.
Sarkozy is all talk, but he will not commit himself to send thousands of French troops to die in Iraq.
The rest of us seem to understand how the “unnamed White House offical†game works, Cap. Unnamed sources talk to journalists all the time, for a variety of reasons. Why are acting like this is something unusual?
If you were to tell me an unnamed MoveOn.org representative told you something, I’d probably want to see your press credentials.
Comment by Candyce — October 3, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
People working in the White House (or people working in the Pentagon) do not equal people working for MoveOn.org. Not only is the culture of leaking well-established in DC, but careers are far more at risk and with far more to give up, in those unusual situations where the “leaker” is a whistle-blower.
Whether Mantastic can accept this or not, it’s how information is conveyed.
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pmThe problem is, soon, no one will listen to you.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 4:37 pm
Ummm… did someone just say something?
**silence**
Didn’t think so…
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:57 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 4:51 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 pmI live in Clairemont also. Yes, it is a small world after all. Whoops. Don’t put that song in your head.
Love Clairemont. It is used nationally to predict election results.
Is Strat for Stratocaster?
with friends like the US, why does britain need enemies?
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pmIs Strat for Stratocaster?
Comment by leftcoast
Yes it is…
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pmThat’s it. G*ddamn limeys.
We’re soooooo bombing London!!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:01 pmComment by gummitch — October 3, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
It’s also a way for the administration to float trial balloons with the safety net of deniability by not connecting the comment to a particular name.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:03 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:00 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 pmPlayed a Telecaster for (sorry to date me) 70’s bands “12th Street Underground”,”Fluid Drive” and “Cookie Tree”
This is a good point. Although, I still see a problem with using unnamed sources – the credibility of the Telegraph would be the best guage of the credibility of the source. To be honest, I have no idea how credible the Daily Telegraph is.
Comment by CaptainMantastic
If our MSM never reported anything without a name attached to it, Bush would have what he wants and that’s absolute total control over the news. These people don’t give their names because they know if they are caught they will either be fired or be dead.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by Leftside Annie — October 3, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:09 pmYeah, just got to wipe those limeys out. There such Guiness drinking louts. scarcasm off.
Sorry, Annie. Correction: (They’re)……
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pmThe Brits in Iraq had performed admirably – in part because they weren’t expecting to go in there and find a welcome mat thrown out for them.
To belittle the help offered by Britain, help which has led Britain to its first eve Islamic terror attacks, which has rent usunder Britain’s social unity along racial and religious lines, is to piss on any hope that in the future, Britain will ever help you again.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:10 pm>>Well of COURSE it’s the State Department, Keltoi.
Which is totally distinct from the White House, no? I mean, State is basically enemy territory from all that I have ever understood. The way it is phrased you would infer this came from Bush; if it is the State Department, it shouldn’t have been attributed to the WH.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pmBut, you do understand how relying on unnamed sources could be abused, right?
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
That’s how we got into the *&^%$#@ war !!!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:13 pmComment by Keltoi — October 3, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:13 pmIf Condi runs State. And Bush appointed Condi and tutored him, then it is WH, right?
Played a Telecaster for (sorry to date me) 70’s bands “12th Street Undergroundâ€,â€Fluid Drive†and “Cookie Treeâ€
Comment by leftcoast
Nice to hear you played out so much. I stopped performing about 5-6 years ago (wife says I stayed out too late all the time) and started a record company Mental Note Records. I do miss the rush of making a mistake in front of a packed house, though :)
Its cool that a forum like TP can help people get to know each other.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm#100 Rather like the White House now wouldn’t you say?
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:15 pmLeftC & ZimZ,
Watch out for sinkholes swallowing houses where you are.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:16 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:18 pmPlay just acoustic now. Guild. My wife would tolerate me doing it again, but never can find anyone just to jam with. Been wanting to try a small acoustic and vocal harmony sound.
LeftC & ZimZ,
Watch out for sinkholes swallowing houses where you are.
Comment by Keith
Only the fancy houses in La Jolla were affected.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:18 pmSorry, that should be LeftC and StratR for sinkhole warning.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:19 pmKeith- been watching La Jolla’s Mt. Soledad Road which leads to the emphamis Soledad Cross. Was just walking that stretch last week.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:19 pmKeith- those are some million plus dollar homes ready to slide. Nothing’s permanent is it? Thats a good lesson for those who belive money provides all.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:21 pmI stopped performing about 5-6 years ago (wife says I stayed out too late all the time) and started a record company Mental Note Records. I do miss the rush of making a mistake in front of a packed house, though :)
Its cool that a forum like TP can help people get to know each other.
Comment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Cool. I started gigging again after my divorce, 5 years ago.
Since I am keeping the day job, mainly coffee shops, fill in for bands missing a player and some playing on demos/records now and then.
Nothing like having nice looking women dance in front of the stage to your music=)
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:22 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmKeith- Is the record company still here? Would love to know more.
but never can find anyone just to jam with. Been wanting to try a small acoustic and vocal harmony sound.
Comment by leftcoast
Hmmm, that is sorta my problem too. People my age (mid 40’s) just don’t want to do much except go home, and pop a cool one. Not that there is anything wrong with that. When I had my house built, I added a room for all the music stuff (keyboards, amps, guitars, mics, etc…) It is all set to go, but then nobody wanted to play anymore. So I sit in a room surrounded by teles, strats, les pauls, takamines, drum set, keys, mics, stands, amps all by myself. Its good fun.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmSorry meant to say Strat!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmIf Condi runs State. And Bush appointed Condi and tutored him, then it is WH, right?
Comment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
Well, only sorta kinda. I’ll defer to Dogfather, since it sounds like he lives in DC, but the various Departments are mini-fiefdoms with lots of hold overs from previous administrations. Condi – sure, I’d call her WH. But go too far down the foodchain and you have independent actors who hate Bush and love to make him look bad, they just don’t want to lose their jobs. “Senior WH official” is pretty vague. I highly doubt it was Condi, she would know this would be used against Bush and she is loyal, if nothing else.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmThese creatures eat their own. Beware Bushites everywhere.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pmNothing like having nice looking women dance in front of the stage to your music=)
Comment by Wayne
Yes it is – until a string pops or you discover your playing in the wrong key.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:25 pmStrat- we need to talk.
If your serious. I’m ready. My calouses are not ready, but I am.
So…why make these comments about Britain???
Sour Grapes. ?? /?They are leaving so we didn’t need them anyhow.
These comments will not go over well with the Brittish people. We essentially are saying they did a poor job, and it would be better if they left. Sounds like a recipe for a . faster withdrawal of the remaining British Troops. The families of fallen British soldiers don’t want to hear about ” a poor job”
The violence in southern Iraq is much less than around Baghdad. The Shiites, under the council of Sistani , have been laying low because they know they have the majority of votes to get what they want.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:26 pmIf Bush tips the balance, and the Shiites feel they are losing the game, all bets are off. The Brittish troops, holed up at the airport, could become British hostages overnite…complicating Bush’s plans for Iran and the Shiites…..so getting them out of there could be a wise move.
Wayne- I could never see the women; couldn’t see anytlhing too far out front.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:27 pmSorry meant to say Strat!
Comment by leftcoast
No worries…Mental Note Records is alive and well. I still do a day job, but I produce and record quite a few different musicians and spoken word poets. Keeps me young :)
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:29 pmYes it is – until a string pops or you discover your playing in the wrong key.
Comment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Yep, lmao.
The sound of an E string popping when using heavy distortion can sometimes be pretty awful =)
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:30 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 pmMay I reach thru Mental Note? I’m running sound part-time for Clairemont Emmanuel located as you go down to Mission Bay.
Wayne-even worse when it slaps you in the face.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:32 pmMay I reach thru Mental Note? I’m running sound part-time for Clairemont Emmanuel located as you go down to Mission Bay.
Comment by leftcoast
I know where Emmanuel is…My website is getting a makeover so I can add shopping carts and MP3 snippets for listeners. My email is tneff@mentalnoterecords.com. Drop me a line and maybe we can get together and see where it goes…
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:35 pmWayne-even worse when it slaps you in the face.
Comment by leftcoast
I’ve had the string swing back around and actually stick into my face. Blood everywhere, it was cool.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:37 pmWayne-even worse when it slaps you in the face.
Comment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Never had that happen, but had it wrap around my left hand once, while shifting chords. Hurt like hell. and totally messed up “HonkyTonk Woman”. Was doing a “Rolling Stones Night” with a friends band, sponsored by a local radio station. All Rolling Stones songs for 3 hours.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:37 pmSarkozy is all talk, but he will not commit himself to send thousands of French troops to die in Iraq.
Comment by tarazan
Furthermore, Sarkozy has a lot of Muslim youth, some of them unemployed and restless and watching how their brothers are being killed, maimed and exiled from their places.
Remember the French revolts? Well, I think Sarkozy will think about that before joining the “Oh, so noble” war on whatever this week is.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:38 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:40 pmWill write you there.
Will write you there.
Comment by leftcoast
Good…I check it all the time.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:42 pmComment by Wayne — October 3, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:43 pmThree hours of Stones? Sounds great! Music knows no boundaries and transcends the great divide among nations and cultures and brings people together. What a great gift to us all.
Does this story make sense to anyone other that progressives that want to believe that Bush would float this story due to sour grapes?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
I have watched Mr. Bush since he was hanging around when his father was running for president. As much as I know about Mr. Bush, he is totally capable of a juvenile response to a decision he does not like. You need to remember: God told Bush to do what he is doing. Bush thinks he is right in all his actions. It would not be a stretch to imagine a vindictive and childish reaction from him. Besides, why does Bush care what anybody thinks of him?
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:45 pmWhat a great gift to us all.
Comment by leftcoast
I heard the Beatles in 1963, and that was it for me…Even as a young lad, I knew it was magical.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:47 pmpost# 156
Bush Co., will blast any and all who speak the truth! Retribution is a standard with this crowd!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:47 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:45 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:50 pmI think Bush was a blank slate for Condi, Baker and Cheney. He really has no concept of history or global politics. It all comes from the WH Vulcans as they were called in the first admin.
4500 or 0 really doesn’t matter. They are just one more country ready to declare defeat against terrorism. Luckily this world has the USA to stand up for democracy, Freedom, and Free markets.
Comment by Roger_Roger
You are kidding right? This is supposed to be sarcastic? If not, then you mean like “Weapons of mass destruction”, “Making Progress in Iraq”, “We don’t nation build”, and other Bushovian quotes. Are “Free-Speech Zones” part of this freedom you talk about? Is Democracy a presidential race being determined by a Supreme Court? Is the Free Market the collapse of the dollar/Rise of the Euro, with China and Saudi Arabia holding the debt? Yeah, yeah, I know the next line…..Why don’t you move to China? I will preemptively answer your question…..This is my country, and no wanna-be fascists are going to chase me out.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:51 pmIt all comes from the WH Vulcans as they were called in the first admin.
Comment by leftcoast
That’s just what I was saying years ago. Rumsfeld? Cheney? I know those guys and I didn’t like them before. They sure don’t get any better with age. History is only a wonderful thing if we pay attention to it.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:52 pmTheir world is crumbling and they’re striking out at anyone that opposes them. Tough Crap you Repukeian idiots. Hopefully your party will become extinct real soon.
Buck Fush
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:52 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:53 pmI learned guitar off of listening to them. We did the entire Sgt. Peppers live. Vox Beatle Amps included.
History is only a wonderful thing if we pay attention to it.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:54 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
Doomed to repeat if not studied.
All Rolling Stones songs for 3 hours.
Comment by Wayne — October 3, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
I saw the Stones in Anaheim in ‘78 and the L.A. Coliseum in ‘81. Longtime fan. Know people who saw them in ‘64. Will Clear Channel ban them now that they are cut and runners?
I stopped performing about 5-6 years ago (wife says I stayed out too late all the time)
Comment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Might want to rephrase that one!
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:56 pmWe did the entire Sgt. Peppers live. Vox Beatle Amps included.
Comment by leftcoast
What a blast that must have been. I can’t imagine the Beatles touring all the time with those tiny little 30 watt Vox’s. For Shea stadium they moved up to 100 watters. What a beautiful noise.
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:58 pmComment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
I learned guitar off of listening to them. We did the entire Sgt. Peppers live. Vox Beatle Amps included.
Comment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Yep, so did I. Vox Super Beatle and Continental Organ. Played Sgt Pepper’s, Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine, and the White Album. Then there was Hendrix, The Moody Blues, King Crimson, The Nice, Procol Harum, Gentle Giant, Genesis, Yes, Led Zeppelin, and so many others. Of course we had The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, Quicksilver, The Tubes, etc, but the British musicians were all in their late teens and early twenties when these bands were starting out…..Just like 50 Cent and Britney Spears now………(Choke!!!!???)
October 3rd, 2007 at 5:58 pmComment by Keith — October 3, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:00 pmVery good, Keith! My wife still likes me to perform but doesn’t mind if I’m too late. LPL
I stopped performing about 5-6 years ago (wife says I stayed out too late all the time)
Comment by StratRat — October 3, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Might want to rephrase that one!
Comment by Keith
I kept reading it and reading it. I didn’t know what you were talking about – really! Then it hit me and I fell out of my chair, spilling my soda. I remember the Frank Burns (M*A*S*H) line: “Louise, you know that when i married you i lost all interest in women”. LOL
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:00 pmI still like Brian Jones era Rolling Stones…….Let it Bleed and before, especially Satanic Majesties Request.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:01 pmThe lap dog is gone. He got his pay offs and his son was given a job by the White House. I just hope the UK doesn’t check Blair’s bank accounts he was paid big bucks from US money and the stolen Iraq money.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:02 pmPM Brown knows Bush is a weak coward and a liar/thief so he sees no problem. Once the US gets a real educated honest President things will be just find. The UK doesn’t want their troops to die, Americans could care less about our US troops what ever Bush/Cheney say is find and they can keep stealing taxpayers money and continue paying their hired Killers Blackwater.
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 3, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:04 pmLove the sound of a B3 and Leslie. Jefferson Airplane’s “3/5’s of a Mile in !0 Sec”, and of course Somebody to Love. But, loved Embyonic Journey.
Good sense of humor Strat. You know I was only joshing.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:04 pmMeant Embryonic Journey. Also “Today” that I did solo for years
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:06 pmI believe Blair has accepted a job with a firm in Florida, probably a ammunitions or lobbyist group. After all he did knit a sweater for George last year. They need their daily chats you know.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:06 pmGood sense of humor Strat. You know I was only joshing.
Comment by Keith
Yeah, I know. My problem was the time it took me to discover the punch line.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:08 pmMaybe Britain should just give a big FU to the US, for that comment, and pull ALL of their troops out by Christmas.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:08 pmComment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 3, 2007 @ 5:58 pm
Love the sound of a B3 and Leslie. Jefferson Airplane’s “3/5’s of a Mile in !0 Secâ€, and of course Somebody to Love. But, loved Embyonic Journey.
Comment by leftcoast — October 3, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
Yes…I had a B3 with two leslies after the Vox. Did you ever hear Brian Auger? He is still making music with the Oblivion Express. A monster of a keyboard player, and of course very British. Then there is Keith Emerson…….Whoa! Met him, and he is the nicest person you’d ever meet. No big ego.
Well, we had Jimmy Smith, Jack McDuff, and Jimmy McGriff. Incredible Organ players.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:09 pmTo Strat, Keith and Wayne. I have to leave now. Just one last thing. We are all on this planet for a purpose. If not, then why any of this? Thanks for the great talk.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:10 pmStrat: tried to email. Take a look.
Talk to all soon.
Does this story make sense to anyone other that progressives that want to believe that Bush would float this story due to sour grapes?
Comment by CaptainMantastic
It’s not sour grapes. It’s calculated to send a message to Brown, who isn’t falling in line like a trained poodle. Keep in mind, Brown has made it clear he is hesitant to support bombing Iran. Without Britain on board, making the case for going after Iran is going to be very different from 2003.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:11 pmTo Strat, Keith and Wayne. I have to leave now. Just one last thing. We are all on this planet for a purpose. If not, then why any of this? Thanks for the great talk.
Strat: tried to email. Take a look.
Talk to all soon.
Comment by leftcoast
You are wise. We are here for a reason. It is our job to find out just what the reason is. Cheers…
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:12 pmComment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 3, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:14 pmThere is so much more music to be made. “These” Are the Days”.
W’s a punk
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:15 pmBrain From Planet Arous ,
Do you write for b3player.com magazine and live in Austin, Texas?
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:21 pm“I found a person who shares [my] vision and who understands the call”
Myopic egotistical self-interest vision? Must be why they’re getting out.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:22 pmJust chatted with a Brit friend of mine, they are sooooo PISSED that alot of his friends there are saying that they should pull out all the troops now and not help the USA ever again.
Good job GW666
Buck Fush
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:26 pmBecause of this process (verification – not solely relying of hearsay) we were all rewarded with a better understanding of the situation. The allegations of atrocity were false.
If you had relied on the same story by an unnamed source, would you have as accurate an assessment?
Using unnamed sources cannot guarantee authenticity.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
The allegations were not proven false, only the messenger. Those allegations are still hanging, and will no doubt be proven true.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:32 pmI can’t believe you people could ever say such a thing. British troops are some of the best in the world. We stood by you after 9/11 like no other country. Our country put huge effort into getting you a resolution at the UN and then when that failed, we still sent troops in with you despite it being flagrantly illegal, destroying our reputation for internationalism in the world and ruining our Prime Minister’s political legacy.
We held our tongue over your stupidity in disbanding the Iraqi Army, destroying the state institutions through the de-Baathification purges, allowing the anarchy and looting to continue unchecked. We didn’t insult your gung-ho shoot first soldiers, your “friendly” fire attacks, barely diguised racism, sheer bloody ignorant insistence that Iraq had something to do 9/11 or al-Qaeda.
The problems in Basrah now are political. SCIRI, Fadhila and the Sadrists need to come to an accomodation or one needs to decisively win. That’s the only way Basrah will become peaceful – British troops do nothing to change that.
Our troops have done a bloody good job in Iraq in near impossible circumstances. They tried to win hearts and minds, provide security, and made it crystal clear to the local powers that we weren’t there to stay. One hundred and sixty nine Brits have died fighting your stupid war.
How dare you! How stupid do you think we are?? Just goes to show that Chiraq was right after all.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:46 pmNow remember if England isn’t on Bush’s short list we all have to rid ourselves of any music or china or whatever. It needs to be banned from our homes immediately. !! After all, you are with me or against my insane war. He reminds me of my two year old when she doesn’t get her pudding and bangs on her high chair.
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:49 pmBrain From Planet Arous ,
Do you write for b3player.com magazine and live in Austin, Texas?
Comment by Keith — October 3, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
Not sure about Brain, but I live in Austin, and don’t write for any mag.
=)
October 3rd, 2007 at 6:52 pmWayne- have you heard Jimmy Spacek out of San Antonio? Very old friend of mine who plays Texas Blues.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:00 pmhttp://www.jimmyspacek.com/music.html
Grammy award winners Augie Meyers and Delbert McClinton, plus musicians Denny Mathis and Lee Roy Parnell contribute their special playing talents to several of Jimmy’s tunes.
Another good point. I hate to ruin you reputation here, but you are one of a few rational progressives on the site.
Comment by CaptainMantastic — October 3, 2007 @ 6:38 pm
I hate to inform you, but you are neither rational, nor do you have a reputation or the ability to influence the reputation of another. You are in fact a delusional cretin, nothing more.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:08 pmIt’s 13 minutes after midnight in Britain and why should he call for an election now? He’s in power.
Were the one million anti-war protesters on the strets of London on 2-15-03 real Brits or phony Brits (in your opinion)?
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:13 pmEnglishEuropean: “How dare you! How stupid do you think we are?? Just goes to show that Chiraq was right after all.”
You should know that the vast majority of Americans agree with you and appreciate your soldiers’ sacrifice. Please keep in mind that these people running our executive branch came to power via a judicial coup and kept power through election fraud and fear-mongering. Please have some patience with us. These maniacs will all be gone by early ‘09 and we’ll have to clean up their huge mess.
And, Captain Mantastic, the fact that you, an avid Bush supporter is making judgements about the veracity and credibility of Thinkprogress is laughable at best. You and your kind have about as much credibility as Larry Craig does when he claims he is not gay.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:36 pmEnglishEuropean, you don’t have to prove you’re a European to anyone here. Feel free to ignore the pathetic pleadings of the Bush cultist called “Captain Mantastic.” He’s only here for laughs.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm#199 – Remember Larry Craig didn’t tap the cop’s foot, he has a wide stance. And I am Mary Poppins.
October 3rd, 2007 at 7:58 pmThe British performed admirably in the conflict, policing, and peace keeping. As admirably, that is as ANY military force could when forced into a situation with no evolving political solution or end in sight.
When the US finally does pull out, the military will have performed admirably as well. But it will eventually happen, that we realize it is up to the Iraqi’s to make and support their own interests. We can’t baby sit forever.
October 3rd, 2007 at 9:57 pmBrain From Planet Arous ,
Do you write for b3player.com magazine and live in Austin, Texas?
Comment by Keith — October 3, 2007
No, but I did write for Keyboard World back about 20 years ago, have been playing keys for over 50 years now, and still have a group making music. I traded in the B3, Minimoog, ARP2600, Rhodes Piano, Putney VCS3, and Grand Piano for Computer Plugins. Much easier on the back. We interviewed DEVO, Yello, The Residents, and Art of Noise for the magazine, as well as did some early articles on sampling.
Left Coast…..That Surrealistic Pillow is an incredible album, as is Crown of Creation. Marty Balin and Grace Slick at their harmonious best.
October 3rd, 2007 at 10:17 pmIt’s a lot quieter in Basra now that the Brits have left. hmmm
October 4th, 2007 at 9:45 amTo any Brits reading this post- THANK YOU for your country’s support of the U.S. in Iraq and elsewhere. It is completely in-excusable for anyone in our government to lob these insults against good British soldiers who have served and even given their lives to support America in a war of its own making. Not all Americans are as stupid nor rude as Bush and his cronies and I hope that you’ll be able to forgive this outrageous rhetoric. We’ll do our best to remove these bumbling fools from office so that you’ll never again have to endure these insults to your honor. Thank you again for all of the support that your country has given us.
October 4th, 2007 at 9:59 amGreat Britain is a brutal monarchy….and they have all that North Sea Oil. A few carefully placed nukes and the subsequent occupation would be paid for by the oil. The poor Brits deserve to be set free from the yoke of Elizabeth.
October 4th, 2007 at 11:57 amBend over and take your prize as a man, Tony.
October 4th, 2007 at 1:53 pmjb:
Hmmm… The Queen (mechanic in WW2) had served in the military longer than Bush. Most of her children also served. Prince Andrew is a Falklands combat veteran (helicopter pilot). Grandchildren also serving the the military… Now what about Bush and his family? At least his dad did the right thing and served. The Queen has a bigger pair than the President.
October 5th, 2007 at 1:18 amI think the Brits are just going to have to hold their nose until Jan 2009.
On the day the two towers were hit I was standing on the exact spot where King Harold was killed at the Battle of Hastings on a day out.
My Daughter rang me the moment she saw the first one and I was on the phone to her as the second one was hit. As she was describing the scene I felt I had been punched in the stomach. At that moment I knew we had to go to war.
It didn’t matter to me that it was the Americans that were hit. To me it was as if they had dropped a bomb on London. They had to be stopped now.
Over the next weeks as our government were arguing over what was legal and what wasn’t and I held my breath hoping against hope we would stand side by side with the Yanks.
The Americans had a big problem and they needed our back up. They were there for us in WW2. They may have come in late but all through the war they were keeping us afloat by getting much needed supplies to us at the same time risking their lives for us and they were there when we finally backed into a corner.
It was now pay back time.
I don’t care what anyone else says, our boys are the best fighting force in the world and even Hitler said that.
Regardless of what is being said in this country now about Blair lying to us and it was an illigal war I don’t give a damn. It was and is a moral war and if it happened again I would back our boys to the hilt.
It saddens me to hear someone quoted as saying our boys performed badly.
I know many Americans that I have met on line and I also know that the majority of Americans would not for one moment agree with that quote.
We just have to remember that our governements are not always the voice of the people.
October 6th, 2007 at 11:01 am