Rockefeller Disputes White House Claim That He Was ‘Fully Briefed’ On Secret Torture Opinion
Rockefeller Disputes White House Claim That He Was ‘Fully Briefed’ On Secret Torture Opinion
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John Rockefeller (D-WV) reacted angrily yesterday to the New York Times’ revelation that the Bush administration gave the CIA secret approval in 2005 to use harsh interrogation techniques. Rockefeller is demanding copies of all the administration’s opinions on interrogation since 2004.
In this afternoon’s White House press briefing, spokeswoman Dana Perino asserted members of Congress, including Rockefeller, had been “fully briefed” on the secret opinions:
PERINO: I believe that the members that have been briefed are satisfied that the policy of the United States and the practices do not constitute torture.
QUESTION: But, Dana, what have they been briefed on? If they haven’t actually seen, like the 2005 legal opinions, they’ve just been briefed in general. You’re selecting what…
PERINO: What I can tell you, and I have been assured they have been fully briefed.
QUESTION: Fully briefed on the actual memos?
PERINO: Yes.
QUESTION: OK. So then why are people like Senator Jay Rockefeller, who’s the chairman of the Intelligence Committee, saying, I’m getting more information from the New York Times than from the White House?
PERINO: I don’t know. I don’t know, but I checked and I am confident that the members were briefed.
Perino couldn’t say what members were briefed about, except to utter the talking point that they were briefed. Watch it:
Sen. Rockefeller issued a statement today rejecting the White House’s contention that he had been “fully briefed” on the CIA detention and interrogation program:
The Administration can’t have it both ways. I’m tired of these games. They can’t say that Congress has been fully briefed while refusing to turn over key documents used to justify the legality of the program.
The reality is, the Administration refused to disclose the program to the full Committee for five years, and they have refused to turn over key legal documents since day one. As I have said from the beginning, Congress has a constitutional responsibility to determine whether the program is the best means for obtaining reliable information, whether it is fully supported by the law, and whether it is in the best interest of the United States.
The White House has very little credibility in asserting that it has briefed members of Congress on its counterterrorism activities. With respect to the NSA domestic wiretapping program and other spying programs, the White House repeatedly claimed that key lawmakers were briefed on those activities. However, those assertions have never held up in the past.
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Dana Perino: “Trust us!”
October 5th, 2007 at 2:18 pmSo what is Congress going to do about this? Oh, that’s right. NOTHING!!!
What a bunch of COWARDS!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:21 pmAnd for the umpteenth time…..WHY AREN’T THESE PEOPLE IN JAIL ALREADY??
October 5th, 2007 at 2:21 pmpoor little dana. they lie to her and she’s too stupid and too much of a loyal bushie to question the untenable position she is being forced into. she looks like a fool. she is a fool.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:23 pmDana Purina.
Contaminated pet food has nothing on the contamination coming from the White House these days.
Dana, did you hear Rockefeller? He was never fully briefed, regardless of how you spin this.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:25 pmOkay Jay! Do something about it!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:26 pmOh, she *is* just too embarrassing.
Pass me my Unknown American bag, please! :o/
October 5th, 2007 at 2:29 pmI give Perino no more than two months. She really had a bad presser today.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmAgain I will ask: Is anyone taking odds on how soon Perino will crack?
October 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmWhy is it that every time Dana opens her purty little mouth, all I hear is that Eagles song…
“Got the bubbleheaded bleached blonde comin’ on at 5
She can tell you ’bout torture with a gleam in her eye…
It’s interesting when people die
We need dirty laundry…”
OK, so I revised one little word…
October 5th, 2007 at 2:30 pmRockefeller is demanding copies of all the administration’s opinions on interrogation since 2004.
I can’t wait to see what he finds. LMAO. Throw ‘em in the slammer!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:32 pmBush said we do not torture yet US soldiers are in jail for torture. We do not have secret prisons nor to we transport prisoners overseas oh we do. It was Al Qaeda who tortured the prisoners in the US control jails not the Bush Administration. If you don’t believe that then it was Bill Clinton who ordered it. We can trust Bush because he told Americans that Saddam had WMDs, all his appointees have lied under oath oh I mean told the truth under oath and oh yes it was God who said Bush should be President. If Americans don’t know it by now they never will the White House has been lying from day one and continue today.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:33 pmThis Administration is worse then Nixon’s Watergate and Americans will pay dearly for allowing it to happen. What’s sad is we allow our young troops die for the White House to steal oil nothing else.
you’ve got to show more cleavage, dana…
October 5th, 2007 at 2:34 pmyou can’t get the show going YOUR way unless you divert their attention…
…
Leave Dana alone…I mean, she said she checked!…
October 5th, 2007 at 2:36 pmhere is how perino covers her ass:
“I believe that the…”
yes honey, will will be called out on your lie and you’ve already excused it….
October 5th, 2007 at 2:37 pmyou’ve got to show more cleavage, dana…
you can’t get the show going YOUR way unless you divert their attention…
…
Comment by katy — October 5, 2007 @ 2:34 pm
I like to play these clips with the sound off. Then I can pretend the cute blonde isn’t spewing lies and bullsh!t. She kind of reminds me of Emily Proctor on CSI: Miami, who has been taking your advice to heart lately.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:37 pm13, Katy,
Yeah, like the Fox Noise babes do, right?
They show enough cleavage to make one wonder if it’s a soft porn channel, infotainment, infommercial or just bad taste.
I’ll go with the latter…
October 5th, 2007 at 2:38 pmBriefly, “they were briefed.” - D(ana)-briefed.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:38 pmPERINO: I don’t know. I don’t know, but I checked and I am confident that the members were briefed.
She means they reached into the back of the member’s pants and pulled up their underwear. When I was in junior high school we called it a wedgie.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:38 pmis Scott M. back. “they assured me”. Yeah Riiight!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:40 pmNonexistant Iranian Homo,
I didn’t realize their were any of you left.
How’s it hang’n? How’s life treating your non-existence?
Are you still living in Paris?
October 5th, 2007 at 2:41 pmYeah, yeah, they were briefed but the WH spokesperson sure as hell did not offer up an dates, times, places or people who supposedly gave these briefings.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:41 pmOf course, the next step is for the Administration to pull a briefing date out of it’s ass only to have Senator Rockefeller’s calendar show that he was in Osh Kosh that day speaking to 300 witnesses. Hard to believe that this type of news is now so repetitious that it has become almost boring.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:42 pmNonexistent Iranian Homo,
Conservaturd’s taste in women should be discussed in a stall with the boy ‘next door’.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:44 pmis Scott M. back. “they assured meâ€. Yeah Riiight!
Comment by Bob Day — October 5, 2007 @ 2:40 pm
I had the sme thought. Same as it ever was.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:44 pmWow, Dana is a horrible press secretary. I want Tony back! At least he’d change the question and not just say, “I don’t know.”
October 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmSenate Intelligence Committee Chairman John Rockefeller (D-WV) reacted angrily yesterday to the New York Times’ revelation that the Bush administration gave the CIA secret approval in 2005 to use harsh interrogation techniques. Rockefeller is demanding copies of all the administration’s opinions on interrogation since 2004.
And then he balled his fist up, poked out his chest, and…………………………..
realized that he was just a Scaredy-crat and that he didn’t have the votes or the balls to do anything about it.
Why the hell did we think that by giving Congress to the Scaredy-crats that they would actually stand up to the Repuppetcans, and stand up for us, Iguess we’re all just dreamers.
“Ok, Ok. keep it moving, nothing left to see here”
Cowards
RIP
SGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
Still fighting harder than the Democrats
October 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmQ: Were there cookies on the table?
DP: I don’t know. The legal opinion is…
Q: Were there brownies?
DP: I dont know. Of the United Sates…
Q: What about those meatballs, like the DOJ got?
DP: I believe that. We dont torture…
Q: We get the bad news on friday-whats the bad news?
DP: Karls nor Scott Jennings bringing icecream. The Committes have…
Q: But wasn’t that thursday?
DP: The BND has changed. Been briefed…
Q: Was the WH briefed?
DP: Im assured they were. I believe that they
Q: By who?
October 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmDP: Dont know. I checked and they were. Have been satisfied…
If you watch the clip with the sound off, you can really focus on how angry, defensive and uncomfortable Dana is. It’s fun!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:47 pmComment by RemoveBush
I second that!!
RIP
October 5th, 2007 at 2:49 pmSGT Stephen R. Sherman
C CO 1-5 IN (STRYKER)
KIA 3 Feb 2005
Mosul, Iraq
If you watch the clip with the sound off, you can really focus on how angry, defensive and uncomfortable Dana is. It’s fun!
Comment by NoOneYouKnow — October 5, 2007 @ 2:47 pm
Haha. Poor Dana.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:51 pmIf you watch the clip with the sound off, you can really focus on how angry, defensive and uncomfortable Dana is. It’s fun!
That’s the only way I can watch it without screaming LIAR!!!!
October 5th, 2007 at 2:52 pmThe conpervatives just want to see her in a playboy spread and could care less what she says, just dont let her vote.
/snarkon
October 5th, 2007 at 2:56 pmUh-huh. We should believe them because they said so.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComments 21 & 28.
As soon as I heard the words come out of her mouth I thought she was ‘channeling’ Scottie! ‘I asked them and they assured me…’. (but did you ask them if they were lying? Should someone ask you if you’re lying?)
It was bull crap then, and it’s bull crap now. (SSDD)
Does SHE know that WE know…?
Why do they even bother? I guess since the MSM usually does nothing more than parrot the WH line they need something for the evening “news”.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:57 pm4) Spell-check your rant: you have just notified your representatives that you are “discustedâ€.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Should they sign it Iranian Homo?
October 5th, 2007 at 2:57 pmHow much do we, the taxpayers, pay for airhead Perino to “have a bad presser,” where she spins the White House lies?
We demand the truth, but fat chance we’ll get it from these crooks.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:57 pmComment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
I would think Republican Stall Jockey would get more attention, maybe Wide Stance Sexpert.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:58 pmDana: ‘Next question please.’
Reporter: ‘Dana . . . just show me your briefs.’
October 5th, 2007 at 2:59 pm‘Uh oh, mark is watching the news again. Why cant he just change the channel?’
What is this “channel” you speak of?
I haven’t watched MSM news on TV since 2000.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:01 pmAnyway, the US has released some more Gitmo prisoners and it is down to some 335 or so inmnates with very few charged, if the US is trying to win hearts and minds in this freedom operation isn’t torture unhelpful?
October 5th, 2007 at 3:01 pmThe tired old tack for all dem politicians caught in a situation they dont like: claim some version of being lied to.
“I wasnt fully briefedâ€
“I didnt get enough infoâ€,
“Now that I know what I know I want to change my mindâ€
And my personal favorite “I was TRICKEDâ€.
Biznuss as usual for the DemoCong.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
So the dozens and dozens of people who said Bush lied (about many things) are wrong and the one man who wants to be king says he tells the truth. Gee, I wonder which explanation makes the most sense?
You have truly hit bottom, my friend. i feel sorry for you.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:02 pmCan’t Rockefeller, or any of these wimp Dems, just come out and say “The White House Is lying”? That’s why Bush has months and years to obfuscate and delay. I hope this is self explanatory to you folks.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:06 pmJust think how great it would be if the News core BOYCOTTED the lie sessions from the Bush Liers.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:08 pmMargaret I have no doubt your taste in wine is impeccable.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:08 pmPoor Dana, she just doesn’t have a clue and is way over head. Someone needs to fully explain “The Peter Principle” to this chick and soon.
As for Rockefeller’s claim that he was not fully briefed, why on earth would anyone say they had been when they were not. This is the oldest indian trick on the planet - show them one thing and claim that you’d shown them everything!
If Congress continues to fall for his charade, then they’ve got no one to blame but themselves. This sucker has been lying his fool A$$ off about fully briefing members on the domestic spy program but we know that it’s been nothing even close to what’s really going on.
Did the Chimp tell Congress that he’s been illegally spying since Day One of his presidency yet?? I’d assume not.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:09 pmI would agree that it’s time for the news programs to stop providing a platform for this heinous level of overt propaganda. Why should the people have to see the likes of Dana Airhead out there blabbering and stammering and making a total fool of herself in public? Do they think that foreign countries do not get to see such obvious lying sessions? We must the the universal laughing stock at this point.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:10 pmInstead of “Dipnote”, they can call the press briefing “Dip$hit notes”.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:11 pmHere we go. Friday’s version of The Daily Show with Dana Purina. Today’s classic quote:
“PERINO: I don’t know. I don’t know, but I checked and I am confident that the members were briefed.”
LOL! And this is the same bubblehead WH press secretary that was asked back in August to why political appointees were given briefs to other political appointees. Purina’s response to the reporter?: “Why are you asking me that question?” Worthless press secretary. Bring in Barney the dog.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:12 pmHistory channel, almost mysteriously, has been running day-long episodes of Hitler’s Reichstag in it’s full detail and I am amazed to see how Bush has patterned his “propaganda machine” after that of Hitler and Goebels. It’s the ‘hitler redux’.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:14 pmI’m so fed up with the obsufications of this administration. Bush has been elected King by the repubs and the house dems are still playing like whimps.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:15 pmAs I stated, my favorite one is “I was trickedâ€; not exactly the kind of cogent decision-making I would desire in either a house member or POTUS.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Still you avoid the point altogether. You presume Bush is the honest one in this circumstance, and he is not. You may believe the boy king - instead of the dozens of others who claim otherwise. That is your right remain deluded. But make no mistake: Bush is the liar (downing street memos, torture, spying, etc). You may believe a liar, but the rest of the entire planet does not have to.
You still make me sorry for you. It must burn to watch your little petulant boy king take your whole world down with him. bush is moving to paraguay after he leaves office, what are you going to do?
October 5th, 2007 at 3:16 pmNonexistant Iranian Homo,
Speaking of spellcheck, shouldn’t it be ‘nonexistent’?
Say hello to I’madinnerjacket’ next time you’re hanging around Tehran.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:16 pmmargaret: I know what you mean about Republicans. Amazingly, those few left still supporting the lies are the same ones who think that it’s a lie that smoking definitely causes cancer. It’s getting that I can pick them out of a group of individuals rather quickly. Yes, it’s THAT obvious. All they have to do is open their mouths and they out themselves.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:16 pmNonexistant Iranian Homo sez:
This from a person calling himself “Nonexistant Iranian Homo”.
The irony is dee-licious…too bad you troll s can’t taste it.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:17 pmI believe Obama took the flag pin off because when he is elected POTUS and starts his invasion of Pakistan, he is hoping no one will recognize that he is an American.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Your idea of patriotism could probably be balanced on the head of a pin.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:24 pmAnyway, back to the topic at hand.
Now that the bush junta has be exposed (once again) for withholding material from congress will Madame Speaker put impeachment back on the table?
October 5th, 2007 at 3:25 pmYour idea of patriotism could probably be balanced on the head of a pin.
Comment by StratRat — October 5, 2007 @ 3:24 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:27 pmStrat- very well said. And hello.
Comment by mark — October 5, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:29 pmWithout exposing my faith. Amen! Impeachment never should have left the table.
Strat- very well said. And hello.
Comment by leftcoast
There you are…Nice to see you back in the fight here at TP.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:29 pmComment by margaret — October 5, 2007 @ 3:27 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:31 pmMargaret- Support the Troops-Bring them Home. Seen lots of those stickers here.
I believe Obama took the flag pin off because when he is elected POTUS and starts his invasion of Pakistan, he is hoping no one will recognize that he is an American.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo — October 5, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:31 pmWho cares what you believe? You’ve proven that you have no connection to reality; your beliefs are as irrelevant as you, your philosophy and your party. And you’re the last person to be criticising anyone else’s spelling. So drink your beer, turn on FOX, and destroy what’s left of your tiny, unused brain.
Strat- informed father has stage 4 cancer. Am up to LA tomorrow to visit. I was supposed to go to a play there with him. Instead going to the hospital.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:33 pmId have to knock all the dancing angels off of it to find out, they might not like that.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Actually, that was funny. Really. I would’nt want to piss off the angels either. :)
October 5th, 2007 at 3:34 pmWithout exposing my faith. Amen! Impeachment never should have left the table.
Comment by leftcoast —
The fact that this man and his cronies have so brazenly flaunted the law with no consequences speaks a terrible truth as to the state of our union, the ineffectiveness of our neutered two-party joke of democracy, and most importantly, to the moral character of its citizens.
I honestly believe this country is too far down the rabbit hole to resurface with any semblance of the grandeur it once had.
Bush was merely the nail in the coffin.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:34 pmComment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo — October 5, 2007 @ 3:21 pm
You guys are adorable. You support the invasion and occupation of a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 and beat the drums for bombing Iran, because I guess that WMD argument worked so well for you the first time they used it.
But, a guy talks about actually going after the outfit responsible for 9-11 and suddenly you’re all weak in the knees.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:35 pmNonexistant Iranian Homo sez:
So…it’s OK for you, but not for us. Brilliant.
By all means, keep an obvious spelling error in your screen name, even after you’ve been informed of its existence. All that does is verify your status as an idiot. Anyone can make a mistake, but it takes a true moron to steadfastly refuse to learn from them.
(BTW, I can see you don’t really care to use apostrophes properly, either. I suppose you’ll take that as some sort of bizzare badge of honor as well.)
A typo in a post vs. an obviously idiotic spelling error in a screen name? Are you sure you want to keep going?
October 5th, 2007 at 3:36 pmLeftcoast - So sorry to hear. I lost my Dad in feburary of this year to skin cancer. A terrible condition. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. God Bless.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:39 pmIs Rockefeller generally a trustworthy person?
yes
October 5th, 2007 at 3:41 pmNow if you profess to liking imported beer, we might even be able to tolerate one another’s presence for a while.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
I just discovered Red Stripe (Jamaica) and Boddingtons (England). Very good stuff. Also St Pauli Girl is always a hit. Burp!
October 5th, 2007 at 3:41 pmDimwit Dana says “I believe” a lot. It’s her “plausible deniability”.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:43 pmComment by margaret — October 5, 2007 @ 3:36 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:44 pmMargaret and Strat: thank you so very much.
As to Rockefeller. The ‘process’ has been subverted in the legislature by the Republican party over the last 14 years. Its not a glamerous subject. No one pays much attention to it. People are voting on the politics without looking at the systematic destruction of the manner in which legislation comes to the floor. Re: John Dean’s lates book: Broken Government
Nonexistant Iranian Homo sez:
What exactly was the Iraqi connection to 9/11?
What exactly was the Iranian connection to 9/11?
(And if you’re going to actually respond, NIH, back your response up with verifiable facts. Kthx.)
October 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pmStratRat- I would love to have a KStrauss at the moment.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:45 pmI see, so what exactly was the Pakistani connection to 911?
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo — October 5, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Never said it was a Pakistani connection, and neither did Obama. You figure out the rest, oh bright one.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:46 pmSo I have to ask Mr. Rockefeller, where in the hell have you been since the election of 2006. You said in January that you were doing to do an investigation and get to the bottom of all this. As far as I can tell, you have done nothing.
Is there anything the Bush Crime Family can do to get Congress mad enough to do something about them? Is there anything they can do to get Ms. Pelosi to put Impeachment on the table? I write Ms. Pelosi every morning telling her what I think about her performance as Speaker of the House and keeping impeachment off the table. She doesn’t answer me, but it makes me feel better to know that I am standing up for something I believe in.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:46 pmRemoveBush: The single best thing to do next would be for you to register as Independent. If you’re not in a state which permits an Independent to vote in the primary, don’t change your status until after the primaries. Some people don’t care about the primaries at all which often shows with the poor turnout for this election.
Now here comes the rub: You mention Ron Paul as someone you believe in. So do I. And Kucinich as well. The mistake the DNC is making right now is that they are “counting” on the Independent to vote for a Democrat, as they have largely done in the past. Au contraire, Howard Dean…..if you think for one moment that the 35% of Registered Independents would NOT vote for a Republican like Ron Paul simply because he is a Repuglican, they you are really missing the boat here. The GOP is considering running a “spur candidate” as an Independent in order to “get it both ways”….something they’ve become accustomed to doing as per this article and will continue to seek to do. Smart move if they do. This will give them two chances in three of seating another Repub in the White House in 08.
I wish the Democrats were a bit brighter as they’ve become almost so antiquated in their mindset that they’re being eclipsed every day of this new Congress. When I see them in the hearings, I cringe because there is no one (excpert perhaps for Waxman and he’s getting “senior moments” these days, too - it would make anyone’s head spin to begin the investigate the quagmire of intense corruption which is being outed daily)….but I digress…
Since our voting machines have been and will continue to be hacked, perhaps the only way to take back this democracy would be to register as “Unaffiliated” party-wise. Our number is not at 37% and rising daily. Once the two candidates are in place with a couple of Independents eyeing the race from the sidelines, then you will see how much voice and power the Independents will suddenly have. Then you will see the Democratic candidate begin to talk turkey to the people. Until then, they have no one to answer to. The Dems in Congress have become a group of impotents and we know the Repugs in Congress are largely criminals who have trashed our constitution and continue to do so every day.
Impeachment should NEVER be off the table IF our constitution is to be upheld. It is not an “option” available to Congress; it’s a “REQUIREMENT” of their congressional oath of office to bring about impeachment proceedings when/if high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. IF LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO ENGAGE THEM IN A WAR WHICH IS DESTROYING US ECONOMICALLY AND HAS TAKEN NOW 4,000 LIVES OF OUR LOVED ONES IS NOT CONSIDERED AN IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE AND HIGH CRIME , THEN I DON’T KNOW WHAT A ‘HIGH CRIME’ WOULD BE!
But let’s not stop there when we talk about high crimes and impeachable offenses….let’s talk about Bush’s covert memorandums on condoning torture in conflict with the geneva conventions; let’s talk about bush’s highly illegal spying on americans program which he began on day one of his administration…..and the list goes on and on, ad nauseum at this point.
I agree that the sycophantic Congress is one step away from committing high crimes and misdemeanors themselves under the constitution of this country and perhaps the people should bring a class action lawsuit against each and every one of them for “derelection of duty” to their oath of office? This would get their attention.
States are seriously considering secession from these United States. More will join. Seven states are joining to sue the white house about the SCHIP or the “screwjob” Bush just gave the children of this country. This country is falling apart and we have GWBush to thank for that.
In my lifetime, I have never been more ashamed of what my country has done and continues to do. In my lifetime, I have not seen as much anti-american fervor internationally. Yes, we used to be a great country but we are slipping into the abyss from which there is little hope of return and it’s occurring at lightning speed.
Let’s face it: If Traitor Pelosi had begun the impeachment proceedings the majority of this nation was calling for a year ago, imagine where we would be as a nation right now. We’d be digging out from the damage this incompetent has brought upon us but we might be on our way up toward the “daylight”; instead, we’ve gone deeper and deeper into the darkness from which there may be no return.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:47 pmNonexistant Iranian Homo sez:
You’re a hoot, NIH. Just like your heroes Bill-O and Rush, you steadfastly refuse to admit error. Every time you do, and continue to post under that name, we laugh at you a bit harder.
Context, my friend, context. ^_^
October 5th, 2007 at 3:47 pmStratRat- I would love to have a KStrauss at the moment.
Comment by leftcoast
Now that’s what I’m talking about! Can’t go wrong with a local brewery. In honor of your dad, I will raise a glass to him and your family tonight after work. Maybe a few glasses…
October 5th, 2007 at 3:48 pmI just discovered Red Stripe (Jamaica) and Boddingtons (England). Very good stuff. Also St Pauli Girl is always a hit. Burp!
Comment by StratRat — October 5, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
Yeesh. You need to graduate from beer kindergarten.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:51 pmI still havent made up my mind whether Bods is better from the can with the widget still rolling around or from the glass; further research is merited. :-)
Yeah, I thought the thing rolling around was ice. I thought I froze the beer inside. But the beer wasn’t that cold, and then I read the label. Its a cool idea. Good beer too. $7.00 for four of them here in So. Ca.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:51 pmYeesh. You need to graduate from beer kindergarten.
Comment by gummitch
It took me 6 years to get out of high school. I’m a slow learner. Any good suggestions?
October 5th, 2007 at 3:53 pmComment by StratRat — October 5, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 3:53 pmI have decided to raise a few tonight myself. Thanks for the sentiments. Bless you.
How ya gonna prove that, Jay–why not supoena the documents? Oh…that’s what you’re trying to do… How’s that working out? SO what will YOU do about it? Give up in frustration? That’s what I thought.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:53 pmRichard Nixon - You can always say you can’t recall
Ronald Reagan - I don’t remember
George HW Bush - I don’t care what the facts are
George W Bush - I don’t know where he is
Karl Rove - I do not recall who the journalist was who first told me that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA
Alberto Gonzales - I don’t remember, I don’t recall, I don’t have any recollection, I have no memory
Rudy Ghouliani - I don’t recall that until 2004. I can’t tell you that it wasn’t, but I don’t — I don’t — I don’t remember
Scooter Libby - I don’t remember
Lurita Doan - I honestly don’t have recollection of the presentation at all
Dana Perino - I don’t know
Peer Gabriel - I Don’t Remember (Lyrics)
I got no means to show identification
I got no papers show you what I am
Youll have to take me just the way that you find me
Whats gone is gone and I do not give a damn
Empty stomach, empty head
I got empty heart and empty bed
I dont remember
I dont remember
I dont remember, I dont recall
I got no memory of anything at all
I dont remember, I dont recall
I got no memory of anything
-anything at all
Strange is your language and I have no decoder
Why dont you make your intentions clear
With eyes to the sun and your mouth to the soda
Saying, tell me the truth, you got nothing to fear
Stop staring at me like a bird of prey
Im all mixed up, I got nothing to say
I dont remember
I dont remember
I dont remember, I dont recall
I got no memory of anything at all
I dont remember, I dont recall
I got no memory of anything
Anything at all
I dont remember, I dont recall
October 5th, 2007 at 3:54 pmI got no memory of anything at all
I dont remember, I dont recall
I got no memory of anything
Absolutely anything at all
I dont remember
veritas-nicely done. I recommend everyone go back and read your post.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pmWe can trust Bush because he told Americans that Saddam had WMDs, all his appointees have lied under oath oh I mean told the truth under oath and oh yes it was God who said Bush should be President.
Jackie - you forgot that it was God who told Bush to invade Iraq. Can you imagine how horrified good Christians out there must be when he says that God told him to do something that has resulted in the death and destruction of a country and it’s people.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pmBilbo: Precisely my sentiments (once again - maybe you and I were twins separated at birth??). Where WAS Rockefeller when he should have been making serious noise about the intentionally omitted portions of the information they were ostensibly briefed about?? Where are the voices of those others who are “aiding and abetting” more of Bush’s obvious lies? He’s used this blanket statement about “individuals being briefed” but never names the individuals nor explains the depth and breadth of the briefing. One could casually mention “Oh by the way, we’ve found it necessary to do a little bit of espionage on this group or that group because we suspect…..” and suddenly, the impression is taken that it’s been “vetted and approved” which couldn’t be further from the truth.
Now that these “nameless individuals” who were supposedly briefed on these general programs may find themselves in the clinker because of it, they’re singing. WHERE THE HELL WERE THESE INDIVIDUALS OVER THE PAST YEAR OR SO?? WHERE WAS THEIR VOICE THEN? WHY HAS IT TAKEN ROCKEFELLER THIS LONG TO BRING IT UP?
I don’t know how you spell it, but I spell it c-o-m-p-l-i-c-i-t-y.
P.S. Independent registered voters are now up to 37% and it may be the only avenue left to the people to take back their government. Surely, there’s absolutely no one in the group (except for perhaps Edwards, Kucinich and Paul) who is worthy of the office. But then a case can surely be made for permitting a madman into the office as we have had with Bush and that argument of “exemplar qualifications” goes right down the drain.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pmI have decided to raise a few tonight myself. Thanks for the sentiments. Bless you.
Comment by leftcoast
I am standing right beside you, man…
October 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pmIt took me 6 years to get out of high school. I’m a slow learner. Any good suggestions?
Comment by StratRat —
Shiner Boch
It’s a texas brew
As Jr says, “trust me”
But in this case it’s the truth.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:57 pmThanks, Lefty. I’m just expressing how few options the people really have available to them at this point and trying to be objective about it. If we take for granted that our voting machinery will be hacked again, then finding a voice at all will be difficult - at least “pre election” we may be able to insert ourselves into bringing some pressure on the candidates because this new group of I’s will not be as predictable as before. I’d vote for a Republican (believe it or not) if they were the polar opposite as George Bush, if I thought that they intended to uphold the Constitution and rule of law in this country. This administration has done NEITHER in 6 years.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:59 pmShiner Boch
It’s a texas brew
As Jr says, “trust meâ€
But in this case it’s the truth.
Comment by mark
Thx. I’ll try and find it here in So. Cal. BTW, I would probably trust W on his beer choices, but not his ideas on world domination.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:00 pmNIH sez:
Didn’t really need to. If you’re stupid enough to lecture someone about their spelling while sporting a screen name with a stupid spelling error in it, that’s all that needs to be said.
Do you trolls actually practice being hypocritical idiots, or is it natural ability?
BTW, I’ve been waiting for an answer to my post #103, but it would seem that you’re unable to meet the criteria for my answer (supported by facts). How disappointing.
Oh well…got to go now, but I’ll be back later tonight. In the interim, I’m sure the other TPers here will continue to treat you with all the respect you deserve. Perhaps you can learn how to use the apostrophe properly in my absence, although I don’t expect too much… ^_^
October 5th, 2007 at 4:01 pmNIH,
BOCK to the future!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:02 pm(tee hee) I can’t believe I’ve just said that but if I put my money (or vote) where my mouth is, it would have to be the case. Goodness knows, party affiliation means absolutely nothing to be since I’ve seen it so abused by this pissing contest in Congress.
If the Dems would get with it, they would also be considering a “spur candidate”(like the Repubs are considering) to run as an I - like Mike Bloomberg since most liberals are so far left that they can’t relate to the DNC at this point at all.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:03 pmWhy not get as many candidates into the mix as possible? It’s not only good strategically since these two parties have become so out of step with the people but two or three shots are certainly better than one. Wake up DNC!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:04 pmNIH,
BOCK to the future!
Comment by Zimzone
Maybe there is something we all can agree on: Beer for everybody!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:05 pmMaybe there is something we all can agree on: Beer for everybody!
see?
that wasn’t so hard
:-)
October 5th, 2007 at 4:07 pmregarding #85 - Lefty,
Excellent! Concise, straight to the point, and right on.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:08 pmVeritas wrote:
Au contraire, Howard Dean…..if you think for one moment that the 35% of Registered Independents would NOT vote for a Republican like Ron Paul simply because he is a Repuglican, they you are really missing the boat here.
First, Howard Dean is not the problem with the Democratic Party, the DLC and Rahm Emanuel are the problems. Howard Dean and his grass roots approach was pretty much responsible for the Democratic victories in 2006.
Second, have you really ever taken a look at how Ron Paul votes on anything other than Iraq? If you have, and you could still vote for him, then you need to turn in your progressive credentials.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:10 pmConversation goes from torture and lies to drinking beer. I guess that kind of does make sense.
Comment by margaret
The teachable moment here was to understand that most people can find common ground on which they agree. Thats the challenge: Finding the common ground with folks who are different or have different POV’s. We make a little bit of fun out of it, but it is true. We cannot turn our backs on our enemies, but we also must work hard to find the common ground between us. I think it is called diplomacy - but what do i know?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:12 pmNot everybody; my girlfriend normally pukes after just a few of any beer, dont know why.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
And I knew I had met the girl of my dreams when she puked in my Porsche, and I didn’t mind.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:15 pmThere are those “political campaign strategists” and consultants that are so right afield and left afield because thats where they think the voters are.
The majority of voters out there are itching to swing their vote to the to the restoration of government. Dems don’t want to talk about restoring the process of legislative governance just as much as repubs don’t. “What, change my three days only her in DC?!” “What do you mean real debate where we all sit and listen”?! “Whhaaat! do you mean my chairmanship can’t control what goes to the floor?!!”
Yes, and beer for everyone. Happy Hour is on margaret.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:15 pmThe poster was defending the obviously stupid remark of Obama about invading Pakistan to pursue AQ while ignoring that such remarks have startling similarity to what the dems say about Iraq and 911. Just pointing that out.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Please Right Wing Loon NIH, enlighten us as to how Obama’s statement about Pakistan has anything to do with what the Democrats say about Iraq and 911. Because what you say here makes absolutely no sense.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:16 pmConversation goes from torture and lies to drinking beer. I guess that kind of does make sense.
Comment by margaret
If you ever vacation in Mexico (I visit Monterey now and then ), try Indio Cervesa. Nice dark beer that isn’t exported to the US, because of a slightly higher alcohol content.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:17 pmbecause of a slightly higher alcohol content.
Comment by Wayne
I like the sound of that…
October 5th, 2007 at 4:18 pmSo, Mr. Homo, if we’re pulling out the spelling card, here’s one for you:
EXISTENT. (Not existant.)
Just sayin’.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:19 pmThanks, Margaret!
Barkeep, set ‘em up; I’ll have a Special Export, please.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:19 pmWayne- in the Phillipines I will take a nice San Miguel. They can’t seem to control etoh content there.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:19 pmBilbo: I would agree that Ron Paul’s voting record would not be consistent with my mindset; however, we’ve also seen how our supposed democrats whose mindsets were supposedly in sync with ours were actually not and voted to continue to fund the war, voted to permit the illegal spying, and recently voted to ditch the idea about investigating bush’s prewar lies….so….where does that leave any of us??
And, for the record, Howard Dean is the ED of the DNC so where has he been except noticeably absent lately?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:21 pmComment by Leftside Annie — October 5, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 4:21 pmThat’s “ecksistent”.
with laughter.
Bilbo: For the record, which democratic candidate today HAS a voting record which is totally consistent with the democratic ideologies and mindset? I think they’ve all proven otherwise at this point on one issue or another. Sure, I may not like some of Paul’s other characteristics but which democrat out there today is not complicit in enabling this war? Barak Obama didn’t have the opportunity to vote because he was not yet in the Senate. John Edwards did not vote because he was out but gives lip service against it. I’m just asking you genuinely here….
October 5th, 2007 at 4:23 pmBwaaaa! Yessir, she must be quite the girl when the Porsche is defiled and you can still wear a smile.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
21 years later, and we’re still married. I don’t know what she sees in me, though.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:23 pmAnd, for the record, Howard Dean is the ED of the DNC so where has he been except noticeably absent lately?
Comment by Veritas — October 5, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
October 5th, 2007 at 4:24 pmVeritas- I have said since the first day I saw Dean and listened to him. “He will hurt the Dem Party for years”.
bilbo: And “progressive credentials”?? What the hell are these? I’m surprised at you, actually, with your level of intolerance. Isn’t one of the “progressive credentials” you talk about so frequently “tolerance”?? I would say that anyone today with an open mind who realizes that serious problems exist in this country and who has a dedicated interest in solving them, reinstating our constitution, and bringing respect and dignity back into our government would be considered to be “progressive”. I detect a level of hypocrisy within you that I did not recognize before.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:27 pmLefty: Has bilbo lost it totally or does he not realize that Howard Dean is one of the primary problems for the dems? I would agree that just about everything he was laughed at for saying has come to be true; however, he’s been in hiding since the Dems won congress and hasn’t done a damn thing for his party lately. Are there two Democratic groups - one run by Emmanuel??
October 5th, 2007 at 4:29 pmAnother good Mexo beer is Milenia, I believe its exported though Ive never seen it way up here.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Way up where?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:30 pm137 (StratRat),
You’re much too sensible, you’d never make it as a Press Secretary. But I’m sure you’ll be all broken up about that fact, eh?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:30 pmShe sees someone who had the patience to suffer his Porsche being a mobile barf-bag.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Yeah, I should probably start cleaning it up. It’s gettin kinda smelly.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:31 pmYou’re much too sensible, you’d never make it as a Press Secretary. But I’m sure you’ll be all broken up about that fact, eh?
Comment by TRDaggett
I can fake that sincerity thing, but only for so long. My job pays a lot better, too…
October 5th, 2007 at 4:33 pmAgreed StratRat, a toast to common ground.
I am camping in northern AZ tonight with a bunch of redneck friends. They drink Jack Daniels and I drink red wine. Three years ago we had a spirited discussion (no pun intended) about the state of the union. They were hardcore Bush lovers, raised in small towns with nothing but AM hate radio to listen to and I was the lone voice saying that Bush needed a broadhead through the guts.
Last year, the camp was evenly split. One guy had lost a son to Bush’s War and he felt the waste of Iraq.
My bet is that this year a majority of those Republicans will agree that Bush has taken this country down an ugly path.
And that tiny little glimpse into our country gives me hope. The Repugnicunt stranglehold on the small town folk, the “salt of the earth”, has been forever broken.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:35 pmAnd that tiny little glimpse into our country gives me hope. The Repugnicunt stranglehold on the small town folk, the “salt of the earthâ€, has been forever broken.
Comment by nanlichi
Well, I can start to talk with my own brother now that he sees things a little differently. He was a die hard Glen Beck wanna be, and I couldn’t take it so we stopped talking. He only live a few miles away. Fortunately, we have both decided to communicate - even with our differences. But we do communicate and that is a start.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:38 pm21 year old Porsche, just trying to scan my limited Porsche memory, would that make it a 924, 944 or 911? Or something else? Ive never so much as driven such a car so give me some slack if I got it wrong.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
1969 911S. 180 horsepower and faster than hell. No traffic tickets- ever.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:40 pmBelieve me: I wish there was a democratic candidate out there who voted right down the line in keeping with what my ego desired; however, that’s not the real world. It would seem to me that each of us has to decide with our hearts and vote for the individual whom best reflects who we are and our desires for our future. Unfortuantely, the inconsistencies run the full gamut - on both sides of the aisle these days. There is not one democrat in congress at this moment, candidates included, who is listening to the wishes of the people - or consistent with what could be termed “the democratic mindset” at all.
Then there are Republicans out there who are breaking rank with their party and criticizing this administration. We could call them moderate republicans…..and we could call the democrats who voted for and continue to support this war ‘conservative democrats’. What does it all mean? It means that a party moniker and about $3.99 will get you a nice hot latte at Starbucks!
So, bilbo….which democratic candidate, in YOUR estimation, embodies the democratic principles and your so-called “progressive credentials”??
Besides, “progressive credentials” is a highly subjective area to even discuss, n’est pas? What may be progressive to me may not be progressive to you and visa versa.
Perhaps you’ve been slaying trolls too long today and have found it necessary to begin criticizing your own? Anger management is a much better venue or this I suspect. Where is your expansiveness as a self-labeled progressive? Where is your tolerance for someone who may label themsleves as a Republican but who has more courage to speak his Truth about this war than any of the other candidates? Aren’t we all about being open when we criticize repukes for their tunnel vision? I thought so and am very surprised by your little attack.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:41 pmEh, NIH - I’m just taking a play from the Republican Strategery Book - you know, “repeat the same talking point over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseum”…?
Anything else…?
October 5th, 2007 at 4:41 pmHey bilbo: come out, come out wherever you are? I’m trying to permit you to reinstate your credibility here. Otherwise, you’re beginning to sound like a partisan democrat! You’re making an easy target for those who claim that the dems do it, too!
October 5th, 2007 at 4:44 pmStratRat,
Brothers are good. I don’t think there is a stronger bond than between two brothers. I hope that is not too sexist. I have two sons and they are back to back. If the only thing I accomplish on this earth is to have helped create that bond, I fell accomplished.
Well, that and a five pound trout would help too.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:44 pmI don’t know about others, but it’s just nice to have a thread that hasn’t (yet) been polluted by “Michael” or “MA” (I recall from a while ago), or any of the others.
Maybe I should quit while I’m ahead?
BTW, I think it’s a nice feature that HuffPo comments have that allows you to at least ‘hide/roll-up’ a comment if you want to.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:44 pmI just checked and Howard Dean is still head of the DNC.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:45 pmWhoa, so what is a car like that worth?
My tastes in the classic autos lean toward the sixties musclecars but that doesnt mean I didnt suffer a severe pang of envy while reading your post.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
I bought it from a dentist who didn’t realize what he had for $10,400.00 and sold it a few years ago for almost $50,000. After I sold it, I found out the guy wrecked the car (in a police chase) and thats when I started my search for the most powerful beer in the world. A mission I chose to accept.
Lately I have been driving a 2005 Mustang GT. 300 horsepower and very, very fast. The lady who puked in my Porsche (wife) won’t even get in the mustang (it’s too fast, Tom).
October 5th, 2007 at 4:50 pmNIH,
The small towns will probably always belong to the R’s. I personally think it’s because of the R’s marketing strategy rather than an alignment with their own interests, but that could be my interpretation.
I am talking about the stranglehold on the votes. R’s aren’t going to get the high percentages that you could count on even two years ago. Iraq, torture, secrecy, Gannon, Haggard, SCHIP veto….. all add up eventually.
One of the converts in my camp is a Norwegian background son of a Minnesota farmer. But I could be bs’ing too. Such is the anonymity of the internets.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:55 pmAnd, for the record, Howard Dean is the ED of the DNC so where has he been except noticeably absent lately?
Comment by Veritas
Hi Veritas:
Actually I meant the DLC not the DNC and you are right. Where in the hell has Howard Dean gone? And I agree with you about our representatives. I write Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi daily imploring them to quit and give their jobs to someone who could get the job done. And I am with you on becoming an Independent. I did that a couple of weeks ago. I truly believe if enough Democrats were to do that, it would be enough of a slap upside their heads to wakeup the Democrats in Congress. For the life of me I don’t understand what they think they can lose with 67% of the people in this country behind them. I am truly baffled.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:57 pmThe small towns will probably always belong to the R’s. I personally think it’s because of the R’s marketing strategy rather than an alignment with their own interests, but that could be my interpretation.
What the Democrats need to do is to find a way to convince these people that they really don’t need to vote against their own self interests. It is so sad. Because of Republican policies these people are poor and getting poorer. But because they don’t want women to have choice over what to do with their bodies, they will vote Republican anyway. It’s all about religion and the affect it has on people’s psyches. If these people could learn to think for themselves and not what their church or party dictates to them, they would see where their self interest was and vote Democratic.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:01 pmJust wondering, is this (article at the top of the page) a result of the Bush ‘fear’ doctrine or just plain stupidity?
October 5th, 2007 at 5:02 pmLinks to: http://www.dvorak.org/blog/
Yeesh. You need to graduate from beer kindergarten.
Comment by gummitch
It took me 6 years to get out of high school. I’m a slow learner. Any good suggestions?
Comment by StratRat — October 5, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
Sorry, been in a meeting. I wasn’t ignoring the question.
The answer depends on where you are. If you’re down in SoCal, your options are not as good as mine, living in Portland, but there are a few very good local breweries and plenty of access to other good breweries from the west coast. A lot of European beers can be problematic because they have to travel so far and may be pretty old by the time you get them.
Best option is to find a taproom with a good selection and start tasting fresh beer from kegs or casks, not bottles. You can start with this: . Not perfect but it’s a start.
Wikpedia actually has a decent list of breweries for California.
Unless you’re drinking very strong, bottle-conditioned beers (like some Belgian ales), beer is always better when it’s fresh. Drink locally if at all possible (although “local” doesn’t mean a crummy brewpub).
October 5th, 2007 at 5:13 pmHere is an interesting ethical question for the liberals out there: Would you support the use of torture on White House personnel, including the President and Vice President, in order to elicit the “truth†from them regarding this matter or any other matter?
Comment by Godfather2 — October 5, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
If by “torture” you mean forcing them to read actual books and be able to answer specific questions relating to what they’ve learned, yes.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:14 pmFor all the missteps of the right, the missteps of the left are there too as is the inherent mistrust of one party over another on any of the really big issues.
Comment by Nonexistant Iranian Homo
Sorry, but what the Republican party has done to this country can in no way be called “missteps”. It has been a planned rape of our treasury and destruction of our government. That can hardly be called a “misstep”.
And get used to it because the a large majority of the public are on the Democrats side on all issues, even Terrorism. The Democrats are now one percentage point ahead of the Republicans on trust to hand Terrorism. Considering the fact that the Republicans had a large lead on this issue just months ago, I think we can safely say that the Republicans are on the road to extinction.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:22 pmThe answer depends on where you are. If you’re down in SoCal, your options are not as good as mine, living in Portland, but there are a few very good local breweries and plenty of access to other good breweries from the west coast.
Comment by gummitch
Hey, nice to see a fellow Oregonian here. I originally came from California so I am well acquainted with micro brews. I pretty much love all the ales created in Oregon. Right now my favorite is Bridgeport. In a past life I had a job where I traveled quite a bit and it drove me crazy when I was in a town where they didn’t even have imported beers. I wouldn’t drink a Bud or a Coors if I was dying in the desert. They taste like piss to me.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:31 pmHey, nice to see a fellow Oregonian here. I originally came from California so I am well acquainted with micro brews. I pretty much love all the ales created in Oregon. Right now my favorite is Bridgeport. In a past life I had a job where I traveled quite a bit and it drove me crazy when I was in a town where they didn’t even have imported beers. I wouldn’t drink a Bud or a Coors if I was dying in the desert. They taste like piss to me.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 5, 2007 @ 5:31 pm
Check out Bridgeport’s Fresh Hop ale in 22 oz bottles. I suspect it’s their IPA, brewed a little stronger and with a buttload of fresh (rather than dried) local hops. Somehow, two bottles disappeared at my place last night. Evaporated, I guess.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:33 pmI would say that anyone today with an open mind who realizes that serious problems exist in this country and who has a dedicated interest in solving them, reinstating our constitution, and bringing respect and dignity back into our government would be considered to be “progressiveâ€. I detect a level of hypocrisy within you that I did not recognize before.
Comment by Veritas
Wow, I really pushed a button, didn’t I. I was talking about Ron Paul. I was simply saying that anyone who agrees with the way Ron Paul votes, isn’t truly a progressive, because other than his views on Iraq, Ron Paul is about as far from a progressive as you can get.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pmDrink locally if at all possible (although “local†doesn’t mean a crummy brewpub).
Comment by gummitch
We have Karl Strauss here is San Diego. Not too bad.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:41 pmCheck out Bridgeport’s Fresh Hop ale in 22 oz bottles. I suspect it’s their IPA, brewed a little stronger and with a buttload of fresh (rather than dried) local hops. Somehow, two bottles disappeared at my place last night. Evaporated, I guess.
Comment by gummitch
Wow, thanks for the tip. I’m going out to dinner tonight at a local pub and I’ll see if they have it. I’ve never heard of that IPA before and since IPA’s are my favorite, it’s right up my alley.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:42 pmNIH,
The religion angle that bilbo refers to is the marketing strategy I had in mind. The stereotype of the Godless D vs the Godfearing R is perpetrated by the R’s and there are several R’s that vote that way solely for the religion angle.
The Norwegian I run with is from a small town called Breckenridge (sp), just across the border from Wahpeton.
I agree that neither party offers us everything. It would be a boring country that could be all satisfied with the same policies. But for me, the party that err’s on the side of people instead of business, environment, science and research and diplomacy vs bombs is the one I vote for.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:45 pmWe have Karl Strauss here is San Diego. Not too bad.
Comment by StratRat — October 5, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
I had dinner at the downtown brewpub several years back. The pork roast was superb and the beer was perfectly acceptable. I don’t remember what I tried, but I do remember that I went back to my hotel feeling very content.
October 5th, 2007 at 5:50 pmWow, thanks for the tip. I’m going out to dinner tonight at a local pub and I’ll see if they have it. I’ve never heard of that IPA before and since IPA’s are my favorite, it’s right up my alley.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 5, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
If it’s not too personal a question: which pub, which town?
October 5th, 2007 at 5:51 pmHere is an interesting ethical question for the liberals out there: Would you support the use of torture on White House personnel, including the President and Vice President, in order to elicit the “truth†from them regarding this matter or any other matter?
Comment by Godfather2
For me, no. Torture is a crap shoot at best with regards to getting factual - and actionable information. So rather than wreck our rule of law on something whcih has not been proven at all, is an insult to our way of life. I still think it is awful we are even talking about the usefullness of torture at all. America shouldn’t torture people period!
October 5th, 2007 at 5:53 pmI like to think that we liberals are far more enlightened than you bully Republicons are. We know that torture is completely ineffectual - people will say ANYTHING to make it stop.
EVERYONE deserves a fair trial - even Bush.
October 5th, 2007 at 6:53 pmWAR IS TORTURE!
October 5th, 2007 at 6:56 pmIt’s one thing t say , “we are tired of this stuff”, it’s another to just get the Democrats in line. W will be remembered for generation as the man that fu..ed the world. Ane the pukes will go home with that and be happy. Certainly they will have your money to continue their scheme.
October 5th, 2007 at 7:31 pmAmerica will change again and so the world. It’s too bad for the worse. But the pukes will always go home smiling $$ because they HAD the democrats.
The point is, MONEY (the pukes) trumps LAW (dems).
So the money tortures and the law forfeits.