EXCLUSIVE: E-mail Reveals That McConnell Staffer Propagated Smear Campaign Against Graeme Frost
EXCLUSIVE: E-mail Reveals That McConnell Staffer Propagated Smear Campaign Against Graeme Frost
Yesterday, ThinkProgress reported that there was mounting evidence that a staffer for Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) may have been involved in the right-wing campaign to smear Graeme Frost and his family.
ABC News reported earlier in the week that an e-mail sent to reporters by “a Senate Republican leadership aide” in McConnell’s office suggested that “GOP aides were complicit in spreading disparaging information about the Frosts.” A McConnell spokesman refused to deny the office’s involvement in the affair.
ThinkProgress has obtained an email that congressional sources tell us was sent to reporters by Sen. McConnell’s communications director Don Stewart.
On Monday morning, Don Stewart sent an email with the following text to reporters:
Seen the latest blogswarm? Apparently, there’s more to the story on the kid (Graeme Frost) that did the Dems’ radio response on SCHIP. Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up that the Dad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?
In the email, Stewart attacks Democrats for allegedly doing a bad job “vetting this family.” That effort to blame Democrats for the smear campaign seems to have swayed some reporters, as CNN this morning claimed that the real story is that “the Democrats didn’t do as much of a vetting as they could have done.”
The New York Times reported yesterday that “an aide” to Sen. McConnell “expressed relief that his office had not issued a press release criticizing the Frosts.” No, what the McConnell staffer did was worse — he used the power and privilege of the Senate office to secretly propagate a baseless smear campaign against a 12-year old boy and his family simply because they disagreed on policy.
UPDATE: Yesterday, right-wing pundit Michelle Malkin took us to task for suggesting McConnell’s office was involved:
Snort-worthy conspiracy theory of the day…The tinfoil hatters at ThinkProgress actually believes conservative bloggers were in cahoots with Mitch McConnell, whom I lambasted below. The unreality-based community really does live in a different galaxy.
We await her response.
UPDATE II: Malkin responds. Unsurprisingly, the McConnell staffer doesn’t meet Malkin’s standard of being “involved” in the campaign.
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Hmm.
Kentucky boy (and ex-McConnell guy) J. Scott Jennings “retires” as Deputy Political Director of Bush’s White House, going to do “PR.”
All of a sudden, a Rove-style ugly and false attack on a disabled kid is levied.
Coincedence?
October 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pmYup, sounds like this guy’s going for Karl’s old job.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:02 pmSeems the GOP only likes children when they’re embryos or playthings for thier perverted pleasures. Once it’s obvious they are neither, the children are regarded as a burdenous, precocious, freeloading bunch of ingrates. And tax write-offs.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmAs someone at Atrios comments thread just said:
Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?
Isn’t that JUST WHAT JOHN ROBERTS SAID THIS MORNING?
That boy speaks his talkin’ points from the GOP just as they’re given to him!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:03 pmThinkProgress has obtained an email that congressional sources tell us was sent to reporters by Sen. McConnell’s communications director Don Stewart.
Can you say “Busted!”?
Good work TP =)
October 11th, 2007 at 1:04 pmMcConnell was outed along with Larry Craig before the 2006 election. No one believed the Craig outing either, until last month!
It’s always those desperate to ‘prove’ themselves like McConnell that become the most inhumane and hateful in the closet! Poor old queen! No wonder she’s so bitter, look at her, she’s all pruney now!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:05 pmSchiavoed!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pmDad owns his own business (and the building it’s in), seems to have some commercial rental income and Graeme and a sister go to a private school that, according to its website, costs about $20k a year ‹for each kid‹ despite the news profiles reporting a family income of only $45k for the Frosts. Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?
You know, they have a point with all that. Sure, once you dig deeper you find out how much the state is helping them with things like tuition due to brain/body damage to different members of the family from the car accident. But most people won’t bother to dig deeper, they’ll just hear about the 30k+ a year for private school and the nice house in a nice neighborhood.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:06 pmSnort-worthy conspiracy theory of the day…The tinfoil hatters at ThinkProgress actually believes conservative bloggers were in cahoots with Mitch McConnell, whom I lambasted below. The unreality-based community really does live in a different galaxy.
Just because Malkin felt it appropriate to decide that the Frost family must somehow not be a legitimate example of how successful a goverment program could be was no justification for her to try to discredit them, rather than what Graeme said. The real “snort-worthy conspiracy theory” is that Malkin has any valid thoughts or ideas. I await your response to that, Michelle. (Not really.)
October 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pmIsn’t that JUST WHAT JOHN ROBERTS SAID THIS MORNING?
That boy speaks his talkin’ points from the GOP just as they’re given to him!
Comment by Attaturk — October 11, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
He’s from a working class family, being entrepreneurs and hard workers that just need a helping hand. What better example of how the government can transform and uplift lives? And the wingnuts can only whine, hiss, and pant about it. The GOP is just a bunch of disgusting, vile, b!tchy little girls (yes you Malkin - grow up, blow up doll!)
October 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pmIt would be quite surprising if Ms. Malkin were to admit that she is wrong. Michelle Malkin would hardly be described as the milk of human kindness.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:09 pm“Bloggers have done a little digging and turned up…”
So an aide for one of the most powerful GOP senators read something on the internets and ran with it.
Where’s YOUR vetting, Stewart!
God, this story is just the worst. Or maybe the best example of what conservatives have become.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:10 pmWhere is the text of email published? Is the mailing list of that email also published? Interesting to see who has first connects to the KY office.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:10 pm“And I would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you meddling kids!”
October 11th, 2007 at 1:12 pm– Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
Why are conservatives SOOOO hateful?
I wonder if Christ would of approve of vicious attacks on children?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:13 pmRESIGN!!!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:14 pmfrom the Balt. Sun:
“What has been lost in the theatrics is the reality of what’s at stake. In [Republican Rep.] Bartlett’s Western Maryland district, for example, between 565 and 665 children receiving health care through SCHIP - for which their families are paying premiums - would be dropped from the program if the veto fight ends in a stalemate. If President Bush prevails, tens of thousands more Maryland children would lose benefits.”
this is a loss for republicans, from start to finish, even with john roberts’ concern trolling.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pm#12 — I was wondering the same thing about the text of the e-mail that TP received. It’s difficult to really make anything of this item without knowing WHAT the subject e-mail states. I, too, would like an opportunity to read it.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pmI’m with CuriousJ. Who are the reporters on that mailing list?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:15 pmCaption contest.
“Larry Craig’s anus is soooo tight, I can only get these two fingers to the second knuckle.”
October 11th, 2007 at 1:16 pmWhy are conservatives SOOOO hateful?
I wonder if Christ would of approve of vicious attacks on children?
Comment by detroitsuperfly — October 11, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Jesus gave out free healthcare to all, he made it clear where he stands on this issue - and it isn’t with the GOP!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:18 pmThis will be the proverbial tempest in a teapot for a few days until finally, someone in McConnell’s office falls on his sword and the traditional mea culpas are proclaimed.
And then the mainstream so-called liberal media will let it die right then and there.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:18 pmDespicable. Beyond. Belief.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:19 pmCaption contest…
“Based on my personal experiences with Ms. Malkin, she prefers TWO in the STINK…and NONE in the PINK.”
And for those awaiting a response from ms. Malkin, the phrase “don’t hold your breath” probably is appropriate. Scorched earthers don’t have time to think “Should I have burned THAT?”
October 11th, 2007 at 1:20 pmMaybe we should revisit McConnell’s closet, since he seems to think people’s private lives are fair game in politics?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:21 pmNobody could have predicted that a McConnell staffer would conduct a smear campaign against a 12 year old.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:22 pmDoes Malkin actually get paid for this? She must be…to be so deluded, and cold.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:22 pmMalkin isn’t snort-worthy but she certainly is snot-worthy.
I would happily hack up a big goober and spit it on that smug little puss of hers.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:24 pmOn Monday morning, Don Stewart reportedly sent an email….
MM’s first post on the Frosts was put up on Monday. Is she on the mailing list?
Time for that idiot John Roberts to disclose that he was a recipient of the email. He even used Stewart’s very own words in his smear piece on the Frosts.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pmBook of Luke: For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Malkin: You poor? You go to hell and you die!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:29 pmApparently “reporters” (if they deserve that title) are now reporting as fact the political hatchet jobs they receive from flunkies like Don Stewart. On the face of that e-mail, there are nothing but broad accusations about rental properties, school tuitions, and income without digging any further for the facts. What these “reporters” are actually reporting is that the right wing has an opinion, not that they have facts. It’s that opinion, that the Democrats didn’t do enough vetting, that is being reported as a news story. And that’s not even being presented on news shows as fact, but rather as an open-ended, non-fact-based question: “did the Democrats do enough vetting”. That’s the most ugly, irresponsible, and incompetent journalism there is.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pmMalkin is so completely unhinged as to be institutionalized. The hate boils over into rabid froth, the lies spill out at an uncountable rate, and the vile, unnacountable meanness is truly worth investigating. She should be locked up, of that there is no question, tp protect herself as well as society.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:34 pmSenate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has been a worthless right-wing slime and smear artist for years and years. What’s new in this revelation? Just one more confirmation that the voters in Kentucky are real real dumb…
October 11th, 2007 at 1:36 pmThe Republicans don’t want to give a dime to people who can’t immediately contribute to the campaign coffers. Children don’t make many campaign contributions.
Repubs in office prefer to give billions to industries and individuals who will not only keep them in office through contributions, but who will also give their wives and other relatives fat pay checks for no work.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:36 pmFrom no child left behind, to no child is off-limits.
Though these people are total a**holes, there is a lesson here - they think hard-working families beset by the most appalling tragedies deserve no help. Ever.
Especially if you are a child. Your parents didn’t buy an insurance policy that covered you against the most horrendously tragic accidents? Tough. Go live your life in the poorhouse. That’s where the retarded and disabled belong.
My suggestion to the Democrats - from now on, refer to the legislation as Graeme’s Law. Take this turnover to the house. Make Bush veto the law that would fund the severely-injured kids from Baltimore.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:39 pmWhose job is it to “vet” a family? I should think old asshat McConnell had better get his ducks in order for his financial vetting, eh?
If McConnell’s office was behind this smear tactic on an innocent child, then he needs to be run out of office - pronto!! This is one sick, twisted, son of a biotch.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:41 pmFabulous post, Dumb_Fox, on every count.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:41 pmGraeme’s Law, indeed! This now needs to be changed from SCHIP to “Graeme’s Law” to make the point and to further out sicko McConnell.
BTW, what the hell is Mitch hiding beneath that gerbil chin of his? His winter morsels?? good grief.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:42 pmFaiz - post the whole email. Let’s see it. If Stewart did in fact send this around, voters can legitimately ask why a staffer of the minority leader - paid by the taxpayers - is spending his time stalking the Frosts. The wingnuts like to destroy people’s careers? Goes both ways. Let’s see McConnell and Stewart defend themselves on this.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:43 pmWhen the reichwingnuts begin to DARVO our children, then they’ve just made themselves “fair game”. It takes a total sicko to attack the children of this country….sadistic sickos.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:43 pmpinson: Wholeheartedly agreed. Once again, mixing political agenda with doing their job! Is that all these pigs know?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:44 pmFrankly, I believe the citizens of this country need to unite and proceed with a class action suit against these members of congress for “derelection of duty” if Congress refuses to police it’s own. What do you think?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:45 pmSo, let me get this right - Mitch McConnell, Minority Leader (ahem…that’s a total joke right there!), used the taxpayer’s money to have his aide focus on digging dirt on the Frost family? I’d say that’s an impeachable offense.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:46 pmWasn’t John Conyers criticized for having a staffer run a benign errand for him? One can only imagine how much time this anonymous staffer (BTW, do we have this aide’s name?) spent NOT doing the job he’s being paid to do and, instead, used this time to launch a witch hunt on the Frost family??
These pigs need to go.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:47 pm“blogswarm”?
that’s a good thing now???
Gentlemen, start your enzymes!
October 11th, 2007 at 1:49 pmThis staffer needs to be fired immediately for incompetence in his job (taking orders from McConnell to engage in non job related activities) and McConnell needs to step down as Minority Leader, if not from Congress completely. He’s been rendered useless with this activity.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:49 pmSo what? What are the Dems going to do about it?
October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmHere’s Don Stewart’s email and cell phone. Because he incited people to harass the Frosts, I think it’s fair enough that he be called or emailed for an explanation of his actions by those people who choose to do so.
Don Stewart 202-264-0694
October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmdon_stewart@mcconnell.senate.gov
If this administration believes that they’re getting with anything, they’re sadly mistaken. Plenty of us are taking notes, names, and dates and will proceed to push for proper justice to be served to these frauds.
Blogswarm - is putting it mildly. How about a BlogTsunami??
October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmThanks, Candyce! Let’s begin with communicating with Don and then move to fraud, McConnell.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pm“Could the Dems really have done that bad of a job vetting this family?”
If it turned out that the Frosts WERE complete frauds and milking the system illegally (and so far there is NO evidence to suggest that), the question should be “could the state of Maryland really have done that bad a job vetting this family?” Why haven’t the critics attacked Maryland for green-lighting this family if they truly believe they are receiving SCHIP benefits illegally? Ah — there’s more political mileage in attacking Democrats than attacking Maryland.
So what do McConnell, the wingnut talking heads, and the GOP hope to gain by trashing the Frost family? Here’s my guess as to what’s going on in their little heads:
1) “If we just continue our regular course of trying to make the Democrats look bad, we can distract the focus away from the program itself, a program that a sizeable majority of the American people want. So let’s accuse the Democrats of playing politics by exploiting children, and hope nobody notices that we have done the same thing countless times.”
2) “If we can successfully prove that the Frosts obtained SCHIP benefits fraudulently, we can suggest that ALL children getting SCHIP benefits are getting them fraudulently, and thereby discredit the entire program. So we need to portray the Frosts as an undeserving family of means.”
3) “If we get criticized by the public for either of these strategies, we’ll just claim that the Frosts are ‘fair game’, and we’ll attack the parents for allowing their children to be ‘used’ this way. Furthermore, we’ll destroy the family’s privacy and make them damn sorry they spoke out. Let this be a lesson to others.”
October 11th, 2007 at 1:50 pmshoot, I’m beginning to think Rove left because his work was done.
EVERYBODY in leadership and on the Internets can do this stuff in their SLEEP now. okay - bad situation. who, on the other side has the strongest position? what is it?? Poop ready? FLING, Baby, FLING!!!
it’s second nature now. Rove can go play with his Barbies.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:51 pmApparently, Michelle Malkin reads the blogs here at Think Progress. If you’re reading this, Michelle, why don’t you go back on the Chris Matthews show and tell us again how John Kerry had self-inflicted wounds in Vietnam? Why don’t you tell us again the lie about how Patrick Runyon and William Zaladonis said that Kerry’s shrapnel wound was self-inflicted? In fact, Runyon and Zaladonis never said anything close to that, but only said they weren’t sure from which direction the shrapnel came. The only one who accused Kerry of a self-inflicted wound was Schacte, who wasn’t even there according to Kerry, Runyon, and Zaladonis. In fact, Shacte changed his story after the swift-boat ads started, and only later fabricated the lies about even being there during the firefight. If you’re reading this, Michelle, why don’t you tell us another whopper? They’re so entertaining and swift-boating decorated war veterans and 12 year old kids seems to be your life’s calling.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:51 pmWell done, missmolly.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:52 pmI believe that whether the Frosts were being fraudulent or not is definitely NOT at issue here. At issue here is the misuse and abuse of taxpayer’s money in the politicization of Congress and it’s employees.
McConnell had no right to use the taxpayer’s money which fund himself and his aide to spend an inordinate amount of time investigating the Frosts. This is clearly a derelection of duty and might constitute a charge of “fraudulent use of the taxpayer’s money”, if charges are to brought.
Of course, they always have the mantra of trying to sidetrack the legitimate conversation which is about SCHIP. They fail to realize that, unlike their abysmally low intellectual ability, many people can multitask and maintain focus on two things at once.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:53 pmcage free brown: Unfortunately, once a precedent is made, it’s very difficult to return to honesty. I would go so far as to say that, barring something miraculous, it’s virtually impossible.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:55 pmmissmolly: All three are typical repuke tactics but the missing key element is that the american people no longer trust any republican at all in congress. What they say, as well as this administration, isn’t being listened to at all any longer. Do we know for a fact that the Frosts received SCHIP fraudulently? I haven’t seen any hard evidence anywhere of that yet. Are we to believe the GOP spin machine on this or “where’s the beef”?
As for bullying the Frosts into admitting that they wish they’d never come forward, I don’t believe this to be true either. In fact, many families across this country are rallying in support of them. And, as the tide begins to reverse and Bush’s nightmare reign begins to become a thing of the past (nearing election), the whistleblowers will be flying out of the woodwork. There is a turning point with people and their civil liberties - when they see a family unfairly treated, it only emboldens others to come forward.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:00 pmSenator Cowardly McChinless is brave enough to beat up little kids with brain injuries, but isn’t brave enough to answer his phone today, so I took the liberty of sending an email:
http://mcconnell.senate.gov/contact.cfm
October 11th, 2007 at 2:00 pmI would bet dollars to donuts that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that this is factual information about the Frosts. Why would anyone believe a Republican spinmeister? Show us the beef, I say or STFU, Republiturds.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pmleftsideannie: what the hell is Michelina McConnell hiding under that non chin of his? Maybe an entire football team??
October 11th, 2007 at 2:02 pmleftsideannie: Thanks for the number. We need to circulate it and let him know what we think. What a wuss to not answer his phone - typical amorphous behavior.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:03 pmTRANSLATION: B U S T E D !
October 11th, 2007 at 2:06 pmYou guys rock - best reporting on the depravity exhibited in attacking children by Republicans. Well Done on getting the email!
Everyone however is focusing (rightfully so) on the despicable nature of what was done,,and no one is writing about the possible LAWS that have been broken. Since I am from New England I’ll use words familiar in this area-but I am sure that there are equivalencies in other states.
Michelle Malkin
1. Stalking, especially a child - Criminal Charge
2. Malicious interference with business - thats exactly what its called up here. Malkin spoke w/ a tenant (lessee/lessor BUSINESS relationship) and one of Hasley Foster’s employees - good civil suit right here.
3. Tresspassing - She says she “drove by” uh uh! Unless the Fosters kitchen was in the FRONT of the house - and the outside wall was pure glass there is No WAY Malkin could SEE they had kitchen cabinets with glass fronts, or a “granite top” counter (which turned out to be concrete). A house that old would have the plumbing and kitchen in the BACK of the house. Malkin would have had to get out of her car, cross their property (tresspassing) and peer into a window (peeping Tom or some type of voyerism) - again criminal charges.
4. The sum total of her actions and writings, and the comments atttached thereto, equals threatening and intimidating behavior toward a child - again criminal
Don Stewart
Actually here is where we can and should use the Patriot Act against the THUGS!
1. Stewart writing the email and sending it - conspiracy to “terrorize” children and their parents.
2. Also add conspiracy to bankrupt, destroy lives and livlihood of parents.
Add to all this the expense of possibly needing to hire someone to protect their kids at school as well as court order to get restraining orders.
I for one would love to see the Progressive blogs pick this up and start advocating for criminal charges to be filed, with a fund raiser for family if all those millionaires in Congress are “too busy” to hold a fund raiser for the family.
Lastly, I agree with another post I either saw here or linked to from here. McConell ousted as Minority Leader as was Trent Lott for “Rascits Remarks”. After all teroorizing children, or not supervising your employees bespeaks of criminal negligence at a minimum.
Further Don stewart needs to be summarily FIRED - with NO retirement pay or benefits - no matter how long he has been an aide. Further he may “earn” up to 30% of his retirement pay back(sorry he will have to use COBRA to fund his health insurance) IF, he reveals to proper committee(s) names of others involved and IF order came from White House or one of Cheney’s caves to start this attack. Realistically, I know we will have to fund 50% of retirement IF Stewart fully and openly co-operates.
Democrats should hold firm on NOT REWARDING the most viscious and despicalbe behavior by rewardiing these acts with our taxpayer dollars for “retirement”.
Any ideas, suggestions on how we can get this mobilized????
October 11th, 2007 at 2:10 pmComment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — October 11, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Well said. I went to Malkins site to see any substanitive rebuttal but didn’t. Started to read why she wouldn’t debate Ezra face to face but it just turned into a slanted rant.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:11 pmBathroom Stall Caption - Tap two times on the pipes if you want me.
Surprised that Repukian Fascist Scum would stoop to this…er….NO!
They are all scum, plain and simple.
Buck Fush
October 11th, 2007 at 2:13 pmAt issue here is the misuse and abuse of taxpayer’s money in the politicization of Congress and it’s employees.
McConnell had no right to use the taxpayer’s money which fund himself and his aide to spend an inordinate amount of time investigating the Frosts.
Comment by Veritas — October 11, 2007 @ 1:53 pm
——
Of all the things that shouldn’t be politicized…. CONGRESS???
Congress is political. This struck me as a stupid statement when TP reported the guy on CNN said it.
Some things should not be political, The Supreme Court, The Justice Department, Health and Human Services, the intelligence agencies, the rest of the beuraeucracy (spelling…im on a conference call lol), but congressional offices are pretty much allowed to be political.
Does that mean that this guy should be lauded for spreading rumors on the interweb, hell no.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:16 pm#33 - very well said indeed.
In fact, so very well said that I copied your post and sent it via email to Senator Harry Reid and suggested that he take your idea to heart.
Bravo. ;o)
October 11th, 2007 at 2:18 pmThe Republican party has long ago learned the tactics of the fascists of old. We can easily see the innuendo with just sufficient facts so as not to be able to call it a lie. Normally, a news organization would then investigate the facets to determine the truth. Indeed, the real take away from the story is that the Republicans smear. The facts reveal a struggling lower middle class family that could have lost everything if it had not been for SCHIP. The Democrats chose the family to show exactly how fragile most middle class families have become.
Indeed, there can be excellent debating points as to whether the country can afford extending care to these families. It involves setting priorities such as the cost of Iraq, corporate welfare and whether we have done enough for poorer families. It is an example that could illuminate whether adequate private insurance would have been available absent SCHIP.
However, CNN treats it as nothing more than a political story. Note that a large majority of Americans want the program extended. Note that a large majority in Congress (both sides of the aisle) support the legislation. How can we call this playing politics.
I remember on White House reporter asking a question in the Rose Garden concerning anti-terrorism programs. The president responded by telling the reporter that he was taking those actions to protect the reporter’s child. I did not see similar statements on CNN concerning this use of a child. Nor did I see it a similar attack on the use of “snow flake” children.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:22 pmJust another ploy to have more government in our lives.
“What I want to fix your attention on is the vast overall movement towards the discrediting, and finally the elimination, of every kind of human excellence — moral, cultural, social or intellectual. And is it not pretty to notice how ‘democracy’ (in the incantatory sense) is now doing for us the work that was once done by the most ancient dictatorships, and by the same methods? The basic proposal of the new education is to be that dunces and idlers must not be made to feel inferior to intelligent and industrious pupils. That would be ‘undemocratic.’ Children who are fit to proceed may be artificially kept back, because the others would get a trauma by being left behind. The bright pupil thus remains democratically fettered to his own age group throughout his school career, and a boy who would be capable of tackling Aeschylus or Dante sits listening to his coeval’s [of the same age] attempts to spell out A CAT SAT ON A MAT. We may reasonably hope for the virtual abolition of education when ‘I’m as good as you’ has fully had its way. All incentives to learn and all penalties for not learning will vanish. The few who might want to learn will be prevented; who are they to overtop their fellows? And anyway, the teachers — or should I say nurses? — will be far too busy reassuring the dunces and patting them on the back to waste any time on real teaching. We shall no longer have to plan and toil to spread imperturbable conceit and incurable ignorance among men.” C. S. Lewis
October 11th, 2007 at 2:26 pmComment by Veritas — October 11, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
You’re right — more and more Americans are recognizing that the emperor is wearing no clothes and they aren’t falling for the propaganda anymore. And hopefully the Frosts are getting more support than hateful smears.
I am reminded of Senator Joe McCarthy and the Army-McCarthy hearings in 1954. When McCarthy attempted to attack the Army’s lawyer, Joseph Welch, by trashing a young lawyer in Welch’s law office as a Communist, Welch responded by saying, “Until this moment, Senator, I think I never gauged your cruelty or your recklessness[…]” followed by “Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
Because these hearings were televised nationwide, it was at that moment that America saw McCarthy for what he was — a petty hateful political opportunist. They didn’t like what they saw, and McCarthy’s power dropped. He was censured by the Senate, and spent the remainder of his term a shadow of what he once was.
I suspect that the “have you left no sense of decency?” moment is coming soon for McConnell and his ilk.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:28 pmHEY MALKIN…….COMING TO A GALAXY NEAR YOU
EMAIL HER….CHALLENGE…NO…. DARE HER TO DEBATE.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:29 pmleftsideannie: what the hell is Michelina McConnell hiding under that non chin of his? Maybe an entire football team??
Comment by Veritas — October 11, 2007 @ 2:02 pm
Awwwww, dayum, girl - I’m not nearly brave enough to look!!! Don’t make me!!! PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!!! :oO
October 11th, 2007 at 2:42 pmIf this is Thursday, the Right must be smearing… Jews:
Jewish group calls on media to boycott right wing author
The National Jewish Democratic Council called for media organizations to stop inviting arch-conservative Ann Coulter to appear on television after the right wing pundit and author continued her habit of making outrageous, offensive comments on national television.
This time, Coulter said Jews should be “perfected” by accepting Jesus and America would be better off if everyone was a Christian.
A national Catholic organization also criticized Coulter’s remarks.
“I’m just dumbfounded that a Christian would even say this in America,” Chris Korzen, executive director of Catholics United told RAW STORY.
Korzen said it was “particularly dangerous” to be mixing religious conversion with discussions of what it means to be an American, and he said Coulter’s comments reminded him of John McCain referring to the US as a “Christian nation.”
“I don’t believe I read anything in the constitution about Jesus Christ dying for our sins,” Korzen said.
Others called for television networks to ban Coulter from the airwaves.
“While Ann Coulter has freedom of speech, news outlets should exercise their freedom to use better judgment,†NJDC Executive Director Ira N. Forman said in a press release. “Just as media outlets don’t invite those who believe that Martians walk the earth to frequently comment on science stories, it’s time they stop inviting Ann Coulter to comment on politics.â€
Media Matters also criticized Coulter, one of the group’s favorite targets.
Coulter’s comments came during Monday’s episode of CNBC’s The Big Idea, but received little notice until Media Matters’ report Wednesday and the NJDC’s criticism Thursday.
Host Donny Deutsch asked Coulter what her ideal picture of America looked like and she recalled the 2004 Republican convention in New York City.
“People were happy. They’re Christian. They’re tolerant. They defend America,” she said.
Deutsch asked, “It would be better if we were all Christian?” Coulter replied “yes,” and reitereated her declaration again later in the interview, although she denied wanting to wipe all Jews off the map.
“We just want Jews to be perfected, as they say,” Coulter said.
Deutsch, a practicing Jew, said he was personally offended by Coulter’s remark, and she tried to defend herself.
“I don’t want you being offended by this. This is what Christians consider themselves, because our testament is the continuation of your testament. You know that. So we think Jews go to heaven. I mean, [Rev. Jerry] Falwell himself said that, but you have to follow laws. Ours is ‘Christ died for our sins,’” Coulter said. “We consider ourselves perfected Christians. For me to say that for you to become a Christian is to become a perfected Christian is not offensive at all.”
Reaction to Coulter’s comments was mixed online, with the US correspondent for Israeli daily Haretz cataloguing all the possible responses to Coulter’s latest tirade.
In what he calls one of the “silly parts of blogging,” Shmuel Rosner gives a range of reactions from, ” This is anti-Semitism; pure and simple,” to “She only said that for a Christian it is okay to hope for everybody else to be a Christian. What’s wrong with that?” to “Ann Coulter? Who’s Ann Coulter?”
Developing …
October 11th, 2007 at 2:43 pmIT’S TRUE!!!
October 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pmTHEY DO EAT THEIR OWN YOUNG!!!
#66 The middle class family cannot afford health care because of the growing entitlements of liberal government. With the expansion of the SCHIP and any “entitlement” it has be shown that one out of ever two Americans discontinues their private health care to get on SCHIP even though “they can” afford it.The more you give someone the less likely they are to go get it themselves.
Why is that those with less have children who continue the trend when education is given for free to better themselves?
Those who earn their own car, home or livilhood tend to treat it with more respect and they continue to grow and better themselves. If you keep showing people that the government will always bail you out no matter how stupid your choices are there is no need to educate yourself before making choices.
And before you go off on corporation welfare and bailouts, I am referring to them as well.
Of course there a few exceptions and I mean a few. NOT MANY!
All we do is throw money at all the problems and never have solutions or reform. Soon we will all be like animals in the zoo, waiting for the all mighty government to give us a handout. Soon we all be working for the government. Doing jobs the government wants us to do. All our ideas and innovations confiscated by the government. Yeah, I know I am an “alarmist”. Well, if you don’t hear the loud blaring runaway train of government coming down your track, good luck when it runs you over instead of giving you that “free ride”. Remember nothing is free. NOTHING! Learn from the history of socialism: It sounds like a idea but man’s nature is to control his environment. Keep giving government your power of individualism and choice (even abortion) and well, you may as well not even live. CHE’ would even tell you that.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:46 pmLet’s see how fast Rev. Hagee, and his “Christian/Jewish coalition” backstrokes away The Hag’s comments.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmSo where are all the paragons of virtue on the Right condemning this vitriolic attack on a child and his family? All the preachers and the camera-happy public scolds?
The Republicans are simply on the wrong side of history when it comes to health care (pretty much everything else too)… Many of us know what it’s like to be without health insurance, or to be chained to a job because of it. Bush’s remark that if you want healthcare you can “just go to the emergency room” is the “let them eat cake” of 21st century America.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmWhat did anyone expect? If the GOP is willing to let kids die for ideology then how far a leap is it for them to attack a little crippled kid.
They are not about to let mere words deter them at all and I think that they won’t stop until someone gets hurt and I damn sure want that to be one of them instead of me.
This idea of public shaming and reprobation works only when the object of it actually employs common decency as the constellation by which they chart a course in living their lives. These folks have shown, repeatedly that they have no common decency.
Expecting decency from the Right Wing is akin to expecting your dog to learn quantum mechanics.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pmYou know, they have a point with all that.
Comment by Squegeeboo — October 11, 2007 @ 1:06 pm
The NY Times reports that the commercial building owned by the father has a current value of $160K. That is peanuts. This is the value of a falling down small building that might hold a local auto repair business or a corner store or a small workshop or something like that. A building like that might generate $20K in annual rents gross, which after taxes and maintenance might be $1,000 a month in income.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:50 pmThe Republicans think they’re scoring big points with this one. They aren’t. They are just showing people how mean and petty they are.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:51 pmComment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Ok, this is so abruptly off-topic I just HAVE to ask. What in the world does C.S. Lewis’s observation of education and the “elimination of human excellence” (that would have to have been stated years ago, since Lewis died in 1963) have to do with this thread topic?
Are you suggesting that providing health care to children whose families can’t afford it is eroding human excellence in some way? Are you suggesting that children from more well-to-do families would be held back healthwise in some way? Or maybe you are suggesting that if poor children get health care, intelligent children will be cheated out of a decent education?
Or maybe you have just gone completely off-topic for reasons unknown. Too bad — I could talk to you about education, but I will wait until we actually have a thread on the subject.
In the meantime, feel free to state your views on the actions of McConnell’s staffer, or even on the SCHIP program itself.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:54 pm#71 As outrageous as Ann Coulter is…the funny thing is if a Muslim said that America and all nations should convert to Isam or die it would be okay because he is NOT Christian. He was misunderstood or taken out of context or it is freedom of speech. Or he was not referring to actually death per say but you know, not seeing Allah when you die is like death.
And the sad part is many Muslim leaders have said those things and have tried to and have executed them with beheadings and unbelievable atrocities to civilians. So I smile and say another ridiculous comment from Ann Coulter. It is harmless in the whole scheme of things.
Now that Muslim cleric speaking such violent language, him I keep an eye on or even bug his phone.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:55 pm#79 refer to #73 and yes I am referring to CS Lews because if you would educate yourselves better you will realize the expansion of healthcare takes away from everyone. Anything for “free” draws a bigger crowd. The more the crowd, the less the supply and therefore it becomes rationed.
Over free steaks at a high end restaurant with a purchase of a drink and the place will have a long wait and that steak will not be as good as when you went there last week and paid top dollar.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:59 pm#71 As outrageous as Ann Coulter is…the funny thing is if a Muslim said that America and all nations should convert to Isam or die it would be okay because he is NOT Christian. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Another outrageous, dishonest smear from the LYING WINGNUTS…
He was misunderstood or taken out of context or it is freedom of speech. Or he was not referring to actually death per say but you know, not seeing Allah when you die is like death. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
No RELIGIOUS WINGNUT, we see ALL OF YOU in the same HATEFUL LIGHT!
And the sad part is many Muslim leaders have said those things and have tried to and have executed them with beheadings and unbelievable atrocities to civilians. So I smile and say another ridiculous comment from Ann Coulter. It is harmless in the whole scheme of things. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Are any of those religious leaders connected to the core of the power structure of DC, and speak for the people the way ANN speaks for you? Nope! If it’s so HARMLESS, why are you whining about people doing it that don’t have Ann’s power and influence? hypocrite!
Now that Muslim cleric speaking such violent language, him I keep an eye on or even bug his phone. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:55 pm
Like this for instance!
There’s a lot more of a chance that the cleric will be tortured by Bush, than be able to hurt you - lunatic!
October 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pm“#71 As outrageous as Ann Coulter is…the funny thing is if a Muslim said that America and all nations should convert to Isam or die it would be okay because he is NOT Christian.”
I think Jewish Americans might have a slightly different take on it, given her past unhinged sputterings. And “Ok” with who? You’re argument is a little scattershot…
October 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pm#79 refer to #73 and yes I am referring to CS Lews because if you would educate yourselves better you will realize the expansion of healthcare takes away from everyone. Anything for “free†draws a bigger crowd. The more the crowd, the less the supply and therefore it becomes rationed. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Jesus gave free healthcare to all, Repent now satanist!
Over free steaks at a high end restaurant with a purchase of a drink and the place will have a long wait and that steak will not be as good as when you went there last week and paid top dollar.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
Jesus also gave free food to everyone, why are you such a Satanist?
October 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pmFunny, if it was a criminal enterprise, McConnell’s staffer would be guilty of conspiracy.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pmComment by barfly — October 11, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
You’re off-topic, of course, but there’s no TP thread where you could state this.
Before returning to the thread topic, I’ll just say this: If Ann Coulter is a “perfected Christian”, this doesn’t speak well of Christianity in general. She actually makes me embarrassed to admit that I’m a Christian if she claims to be a “perfect” one.
I haven’t seen anything Ann has said yet on the subject of the Frosts, but I’m sure we’ll hear some blather from her eventually.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pm“Anything for “free†draws a bigger crowd. The more the crowd, the less the supply and therefore it becomes rationed.”
And this “bigger crowd” will get treatment by local doctors and nurses, who will pay local, state, and federal taxes. Scarcity creates opportunity, not necessarily rationing.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pmC.S. Lewis is a favorite of the right. The Narnia series is a metaphor for the jesus and the rapture. And his books are filled with anti-semetic writing.
On topic. funny that Malkin denies that this happened resorting to her theatrics to divert attention form the issue. Mainly, that the republicans in a concerted effort, are trying to smear this family, for not toeing the party line.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pmComment by Krazny —
Did you see her run from debating Ezra Klein? Classic bully tactics.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:05 pmComment by barfly — October 11, 2007 @ 3:05 pm
Much like Bush really. The I will fight you any time any where, as long as it is at 2 pm at my house on saturday. Malkin knows in an actual debate she brings nothing but anger and vitriol. She has nothing offer to anyone, but the wingtards who think she is smart.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pmIf a post ends with this-
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil
Why do you even bother reading it? I sure don’t. I skip right over it, not worth my time.
Buck Fush
October 11th, 2007 at 3:14 pmAnn Coulter is the poster boy for everything that is wrong with the right.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:14 pmLOL. So now Michelle Malkin in her latest response is comparing Chris Matthews to “an overflowing vat of liquid nuclear waste”. I wonder what got her dander up against Matthews? Could it have anything to do with the fact that her interview on Matthews’ show in which she couldn’t back up any of her assertions regarding John Kerry was one of the single most embarrassing moments in talking-heads punditry I have ever seen?
October 11th, 2007 at 3:15 pmThe wingnuts whine about healthcare, but what did Jesus do?
Not only do we know what he did, we know what commandment he left for us! To GIVE FREELY and to HEAL FREELY!
Why is the GOP so ANTI-CHRISTIAN?
October 11th, 2007 at 3:19 pmIf Tranny Anny Coutergeist were kept under surveillance for all the anti-American and bigoted things she has said, she would be wired for sound 24/7 and have his/her own NSA posse everywhere he/she goes.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWhy is the GOP so ANTI-CHRISTIAN?
Because GREED and HATE are their GOD.
It’s all about THEM.
Buck Fush
October 11th, 2007 at 3:23 pm#79 refer to #73 and yes I am referring to CS Lews because if you would educate yourselves better you will realize the expansion of healthcare takes away from everyone. Anything for “free†draws a bigger crowd. The more the crowd, the less the supply and therefore it becomes rationed.
Over free steaks at a high end restaurant with a purchase of a drink and the place will have a long wait and that steak will not be as good as when you went there last week and paid top dollar.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 2:59 pm
OK, I may need a compass to navigate my way through this one, but here goes:
“I am referring to CS Lews because if you would educate yourselves better you will realize the expansion of healthcare takes away from everyone.”
– Actually, it’s because I AM educated that I see no such thing happening, as I will explain.
“Anything for “free†draws a bigger crowd. The more the crowd, the less the supply and therefore it becomes rationed.”
– This is true if the freebie is something that people WANT (but could live without if they had to) rather than NEED and can’t live without.
“Over free steaks at a high end restaurant with a purchase of a drink and the place will have a long wait and that steak will not be as good as when you went there last week and paid top dollar.”
– Ah, but if people can’t afford to pay for steaks, they can eat tuna casserole. Comparing steaks to healthcare isn’t really valid, since people need healthcare and they can live without steak. On the other hand, comparing food in general with healthcare is valid, since people do need to eat something to stay alive (and yes, this means that if somebody can’t afford food, it should be provided for them — not steak, but tuna casserole at least).
I think that what you are suggesting is that there isn’t enough healthcare to go around, so some people have to do without. That’s a rather scary thought. What are you suggesting — that people who can’t afford healthcare should just be left to sicken and die?
Or perhaps you are suggesting that the issue is the QUALITY of healthcare (sort of like the quality of steak when few people want it versus when everybody lines up for it). In your eyes then, poor people should go without healthcare so that rich people get the finest healthcare possible?
Or maybe you think that if healthcare is free, people will be lining up to suck up giant quantities of healthcare like gluttons, draining the system?
Besides being completely heartless and without any compassion whatsoever, your argument is baseless.
1) Healthcare is rarely completely free for the recipient (unless you are the President or some other national elected official) — most plans require some sort of co-pay, so it’s unlikely that it would be squandered.
2) Healthcare isn’t the sort of commodity that people would use if they didn’t need it. Do YOU hang around doctor’s offices just for fun?
3) There will actually be MORE healthcare available if more people can afford it. That’s right! If a person has access to regular doctor visits and wellness programs BEFORE they get a major illness, they are less likely to get a major illness that requires expensive care. And if children get minor health problems diagnosed and treated when they are young, they are less likely to have expensive major health problems as adults.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:32 pmI think that what you are suggesting is that there isn’t enough healthcare to go around, so some people have to do without. That’s a rather scary thought. What are you suggesting — that people who can’t afford healthcare should just be left to sicken and die? Comment by missmolly — October 11, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
Yes, that’s exactly what the GOP is saying. In their world of scarce thinking, there’s a limited amount, therefore if they want more of it, they have to deprive you of having any! It’s a really perverse set of thinking! It’s completely hysterical, irrational - even insane - yet it’s the core of GOP thinking on all issues. Why do they want to prevent Gays from marrying? Because in their twisted mind, it means less marriage for them, so maybe they can’t get married - how insane is that?
October 11th, 2007 at 3:45 pmWhy do they want to prevent Gays from marrying? Because in their twisted mind, it means less marriage for them, so maybe they can’t get married - how insane is that?
Comment by republicans hate facts — October 11, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
Aha — we finally now know why gay marriage is such a threat to heterosexual marriage! There isn’t enough marriage to go around!
I always wondered about that. Now I know. Thanks!
October 11th, 2007 at 3:50 pmmissmolly, you are wise beyond your years.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:52 pm#82 But that Muslim cleric has more power over poor people than Bush does here in America but you keep pushing for more government control which gives Bush more of that power. And that Muslim cleric decides to strap a bomb to some children or young adults to kill civilians. Nice! They really have no say! They are limited to the education the get because it is run by their religious government ideology with no other recourse but to submit. It sounds like something you lefties are willing to give away for free.
Healthcare, education, are some extreme examples.
And more of them voted with a high probability of death than we do and we have to worry about it WHAT?
Keep being blinded by the fact that your socialist medicine is helpful. It will kill more people than Saddam did during his great reign. Oh, THAT IS another example of extreme government control. Oh, oil is running out and we thought that would last forever. Go visit some other healthcare facilities around the world. Go on! Don’t be blinded my Michael Moore and the loonies running the asylum. Go ahead! I have been to other countries and have seen the great socialist healthcare.
That is why they send us home when we have a severe injury. Better healthcare in the private sector.
Oh, another example of extreme government control.
And by the way that Muslim cleric preaching hate did hurt me and my family more than he would ever get from Bush, Clinton or any previous or future president.
So stay blinded by your hate!
Protect Americans first. How about that for a novel ideal?!
Miss Molly, if you keep rewarding the poor with more “free stuff” then what is the incidentive to change bad habits? And yes being poor is a bad habit to pass on to your children.
Without motivated, hardworking people building companies and creating innovative technologies to build corporations there would be no jobs to have work. And if you find yourself tied to a job by healthcare then find a better job. It is easy. HECK NO! But at least you still have a choice and the opportunity to do it.
By the way, I don’t care who gets married.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:28 pmIf ANTI-CHRISTIAN is not giving into the government’s control of my health, then call me the ANTI-CHRIST?
When did government become the all knowing GOD?
October 11th, 2007 at 4:31 pm1) Healthcare is rarely completely free for the recipient […]
True, but ask any recipient how much a doctor’s visit costs and they’ll tell you the copay amount, not the actual cost of the visit. We don’t have health insurance today, since insurance is intended to protect against a possible future risk (ie, car accident, illness, etc). It is not intended to protect against a doctor’s visit b/c you have a sore throat. Our “insurance” system is actually an Insulation system - we (and our employers) prepay for our anticipated medical expenses and share the burden with the rest.
Since we don’t see the true costs of a doctor’s visit, there’s no incentive for a doctor to be competitive in price. A flat copay to make the recipient pay something is nice, but does not produce the cost-consciousness of the true consumer.
My mom went to see a doc and after waiting in the waiting room, spent 5 min with an RN. The visit cost >$300 (works out to roughly $3.6k per hour) and my mom wouldn’t have known that except that the billing to the old insurance company was mailed to the wrong address and they sent it directly to her. When my mom visited the office to complain about the amount, the billing admin looked at her like she was from Mars - because she’d never been challenged on the pricing.
Imagine having a restaurant insurance card. Every night that you go out to eat, someone else picks up the tab and you just get a portion (either a % or a flat, nominal fee). How likely are you to increase your usage of restaurants for food?
2) Healthcare isn’t the sort of commodity that people would use if they didn’t need it.
Actually, people do see doctors when they don’t need to. In fact, extreme cases are called hypochondriacs. More moderate cases might be people who go to the doc when they get a sore throat, but could just as easily stay at home and get better in a day or so. If they only have to pay the co-pay, why not “be on the safe side” and get it looked at?
And when the doc recommends a hugely expensive procedure “just to be on the safe side” that might be like using a bazooka to kill a fly instead of a less expensive procedure that might do the trick just as well, without any cost consideration the consumer will choose the more expensive procedure (if the doctor even tells them that it’s more expensive).
3) There will actually be MORE healthcare available if more people can afford it.[…]
Prevention and early detection surely are better than finding illness andn disease after they’ve progressed too far. Of course, High Deductible, Health Savings Accounts often cover 100% of preventative visits, even for kids. If you have a child and an HSA w/ high deductible insurance plan, well-baby visit are gratis - no copy or anything.
And, despite what the herd here may think, our current health care system can’t be described as free market. Compare the amount of government involvement in healthcare vs. other industries and you’ll see that what we essentially have is the worst of all worlds.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:45 pmThese righties doest protest too much!
October 11th, 2007 at 4:48 pm#82 But that Muslim cleric has more power over poor people than Bush does here in America but you keep pushing for more government control which gives Bush more of that power. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Really? Because Bush has the command of hundreds of thousands of troops, and invaded Iraq with them killing hundreds of thousands of people. That completely destroys this claim!
And that Muslim cleric decides to strap a bomb to some children or young adults to kill civilians. Nice! Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
And Bush decides to give bombs and guns to soldiers, and kill children, and claim they’re ‘collateral damage’ when it happens, and refuses to prosecute them. Different, how?
They really have no say! Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
The soldiers? That’s true.
They are limited to the education the get because it is run by their religious government ideology with no other recourse but to submit. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
You know, Kerry got slammed for making that claim, but there’s some truth that many of the soldiers do fit this description!
It sounds like something you lefties are willing to give away for free.
Healthcare, education, are some extreme examples. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Examples of what again?
And more of them voted with a high probability of death than we do and we have to worry about it WHAT?
Keep being blinded by the fact that your socialist medicine is helpful. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Well, it IS A FACT, is that why you hate it so much?
It will kill more people than Saddam did during his great reign. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Ah, more ridiculous claims, from the paranoid lunatics! Is that why those ’socialized’ countries live longer and have less infant mortality than the US?
Oh, THAT IS another example of extreme government control. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Affordable healthcare? BAHAHA, more insanity!
Oh, oil is running out and we thought that would last forever. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Another insane remark, unrelated, and well, stupid. Oil is energy, it will be replaced by other energy. Your analogy is bogus, and shows a lack of grasp on reality!
Go visit some other healthcare facilities around the world. Go on! Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Been there, done that, have you? Better yet, ask a european how their experience of having to seek healthcare in the US went when they suddenly required it on vacation?
Don’t be blinded my Michael Moore and the loonies running the asylum.Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Says the blinded loonie running the GOP asylum!
Go ahead! I have been to other countries and have seen the great socialist healthcare. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Which countries, when, for what treatment, and how much did it cost you?
That is why they send us home when we have a severe injury. Better healthcare in the private sector. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
WTF does that sentence even mean? it’s brain damaged, like you!
Oh, another example of extreme government control. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
What, sending people home? Your posts aren’t even rational, they certainly aren’t logical, and they exhibit all of the symptoms of paranoia and schizophrenia!
And by the way that Muslim cleric preaching hate did hurt me and my family more than he would ever get from Bush, Clinton or any previous or future president. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
He did? Why’s that? Because if you’re claiming you were hurt by 911, it was a GOP insider and CIA agent named Ali Mohammad that trained those attackers, not a cleric!
So stay blinded by your hate! Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Take your own advice, and stop projecting!
Protect Americans first. How about that for a novel ideal?! Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Yet another nationalistic hateful statement that has nothing to do with healthcare, only fascism. Jesus gave free healthcare - that’s protecting america first! Not killing american soldiers just to grab oil and protect israel!
Miss Molly, if you keep rewarding the poor with more “free stuff†then what is the incidentive to change bad habits? And yes being poor is a bad habit to pass on to your children. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
If you keep rewarding the rich with more “free stuff”, then what is the incentive for you to change your bad habits? And yes, greed (see Bible) is a bad habit!
Without motivated, hardworking people building companies and creating innovative technologies to build corporations there would be no jobs to have work. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Not true. Civilization had plenty of jobs before there ever were corporations!
And if you find yourself tied to a job by healthcare then find a better job. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Jesus cured sick people for free, you saying he was sinful? You’re a satanist!
It is easy. HECK NO! But at least you still have a choice and the opportunity to do it. Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Actually socialized medicine employees more healthcare professionals, because less money goes to wasteful insurance!
By the way, I don’t care who gets married.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
Sure you do, liar!
October 11th, 2007 at 4:56 pmIf ANTI-CHRISTIAN is not giving into the government’s control of my health, then call me the ANTI-CHRIST? Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Free healthcare was the message of Jesus, the government is WE the people - so yes we can choose to use government do do this.
When did government become the all knowing GOD?
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
When did you?
October 11th, 2007 at 4:56 pm#97
I am a middle class, hard working, 60 hours a week man. I work this hard to be able to take care of my needs and for those I love.
I pay my taxes. I saved my money to buy my first house. I received no special “entitlements” from the government that I have not paid with said taxes. I am working hard to start my own business while working at my current job. I get paid from my employers for the skills I provide to him for his business. He returns that by finding me more work and with a paycheck. He offers no healthcare, otherwise his business would not float. I provide my own healthcare on my modest income.
I learned to budget my money to provide food, shelter, automobile, maintenance and health for myself. I did this. No government body gave me a hand. I had no help but my ambitions and drive. I did it! I AM DOING IT! My drive is I don’t want to be relying on you or government!
I see so many people saying, “If the government is going to pay for it why should I!” How about self worth, self-respect and some dignity. How about what you get for free, you may pay for later with lower quality. You cannot maintain high quality of anything when it is given for free.
As a child, I lived in the government housing. I know what most people do with their “free” homes. It is the same with “free” healthcare. They will abuse it. I do see people hanging out welfare offices quite often and it always appears to be the same people. Getting there “entitlements”.
Help those who cannot help themselves. The rest of us need to get off our lazy butts and stop watching gossip E! and learn a skill or get an education to get paid better or start their own business venture.
The more gov’t gives in healthcare the higher prices continue to rise on insurance premiums for us who scrap to make it happen because my health is more important than some widget I need to have to keep up with the Jones!
You keep giving handouts then all you going do is produce more handouts. Am I saying only the rich should get healthcare. No, I am not. But I am saying the rich must be doing something right and are still doing it so why don’t the poor learn from their “free” education from the examples the rich have given.
I know, KILL THE RICH! The funny thing is if you did…there would be no jobs or taxes to feed, cloth, educate and help the poor.
These handouts are what is truly killing the middle class, hardworking American.
Anyone making more than $75,000 should be taxed more…Edwards.
If $75,000 is alot of money than what the heck are we working for….GOVERNMENT!
October 11th, 2007 at 4:57 pm#105
Just like a leftist…have no respectable answer…answer with a question.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:58 pm#105 I bet you have a Che’ t-shirt?
October 11th, 2007 at 4:58 pm#105
Free healthcare…the message of Jesus…please recite passage…thanks
October 11th, 2007 at 4:59 pmSince we don’t see the true costs of a doctor’s visit, there’s no incentive for a doctor to be competitive in price. A flat copay to make the recipient pay something is nice, but does not produce the cost-consciousness of the true consumer.
– The insurance companies are wasteful and yet somehow make money…is this your point? It’s still your money they’re wasting, just as it would be with government run healthcare. The only difference is, the government wouldn’t be driven by stockholders to raise premiums periodically.
Imagine having a restaurant insurance card. Every night that you go out to eat, someone else picks up the tab and you just get a portion (either a % or a flat, nominal fee). How likely are you to increase your usage of restaurants for food?
– Are you advocating “do-it-yourself” healthcare? There is no alternative to “eating out” in terms of healthcare.
Actually, people do see doctors when they don’t need to. In fact, extreme cases are called hypochondriacs. More moderate cases might be people who go to the doc when they get a sore throat, but could just as easily stay at home and get better in a day or so. If they only have to pay the co-pay, why not “be on the safe side†and get it looked at?
– What’s your point? Because a small percentage of the population is neurotic, people who are actually sick should be allowed to die? Good argument.
And, despite what the herd here may think, our current health care system can’t be described as free market. Compare the amount of government involvement in healthcare vs. other industries and you’ll see that what we essentially have is the worst of all worlds.
– Great, then we should leave it as it is? Let’s make a change that fixes the system as well as our population. This seems like an easy call to me.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:00 pm#105
I do recall the message of Mussolini, Hitler, Marx, Lenin, Castro too.
I also know that in Canada, England and the rest of Europe are drowning in it.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:00 pm#110
There has been a rise of doctors opening practices in which the have a “menu” lists of cost for said procedures. If it is too critical then they refer you to a hospital that has the means. This has been a hidden jewel for many patients because they do see how much it will costs and can decide to pay out of pocket or with insurance if the doctor accepts it. Most however, do not accept insurance in order to keep prices down, otherwise, they would have to to hire more administrators for the increase in paperwork.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:06 pmInstead of expanding free healthcare lets make it mandatory for all over 18, and not in school to have healthcare insurance of their own and for their children. If not, you will receive a fine and have money collected from your paycheck until you pay off the procedure. Kinda like car insurance.
Driving a car is a privilege and so is healthcare. This will drive down the amount of healthcare costs because less people will not have health insurance.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:11 pmThere has been a rise of doctors opening practices in which the have a “menu†lists of cost for said procedures. If it is too critical then they refer you to a hospital that has the means. This has been a hidden jewel for many patients because they do see how much it will costs and can decide to pay out of pocket or with insurance if the doctor accepts it. Most however, do not accept insurance in order to keep prices down, otherwise, they would have to to hire more administrators for the increase in paperwork.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
Um…great? This is a bit of a non-sequitur. It’s a great idea unless the items on the menu you need are out of your price range. You seem to have some crazy idea that everyone can afford everything if they just want it hard enough.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:14 pmDriving a car is a privilege and so is healthcare. This will drive down the amount of healthcare costs because less people will not have health insurance.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
Nice idea, maybe I should also convince my pastor to donate the collection plate money to the rich.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:16 pmtherwise, they would have to to hire more administrators for the increase in paperwork.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
A single payer system would help then, only one insurer to submit claims too, the forms would all be the same, and one organization would process the claims. Seems like a no brainer.
OT, what is your feelings about right wing whacko’s attacking a 12 year old and his family, because they had the temerity to stick up for what they believe in?
October 11th, 2007 at 5:19 pmHealth care is a privilege? Who raised you, wolves? What a terrible thing to say! Typical rightie heartlessness, no wonder America is fed up with your side. Good luck in the wilderness.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:27 pm#105 I bet you have a Che’ t-shirt?
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
Aren’t you just the moron the government loves; they take all of your money in taxes, give it to the rich. At least the left wants its tax money back in the form of healthcare and services for the taxpayers, rather than the rich and arms-dealers. Your taxes are too high because of warmongering and the rich’s greed, not because of the poor or middle class. Take a look at the budget og the US some day, you’ll see exactly what I mean.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:30 pmWithout motivated, hardworking people building companies and creating innovative technologies to build corporations there would be no jobs to have work. And if you find yourself tied to a job by healthcare then find a better job. It is easy. HECK NO! But at least you still have a choice and the opportunity to do it.
By the way, I don’t care who gets married.
Comment by ANeccessaryEvil — October 11, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
all lies and fairy-tales that you’ve bought into because you’re working 60 hours a week instead of being able to keep up with all of the hardworking, innovative CEOs stealing your pension funds and sending jobs to India. If y8ou were middle class, you’d be working 40 hours a week and having a decent life, with health insurance. instead, you’ve enslaved yourself to an ideology that counts on your ignorance to bleed you dry. You’re the great Republican victim, voting against your own best interestes so that the rich can get richer, laughing at you all the way to their numbered bank accounts–offshore.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:34 pmThe only difference is, the government wouldn’t be driven by stockholders to raise premiums periodically.
A couple of other important differences - governments own & operate jails (could make private insurance illegal, like in Canada); governments have guns; governments can print money; governments can raise taxes on people’s incomes (and use those jails & guns to make sure their “customers” pay; governments are inherently wasteful because they are a monopoly.
– Are you advocating “do-it-yourself†healthcare? There is no alternative to “eating out†in terms of healthcare.
No, I’m pointing out that the price one pays for a good or service often has a bearing on the usage of that good or service.
And I think you’re thinking about healthcare only in terms of catastrophic illnesses. Again, insurance is intended to protect against unexpected, future potentialities, not to pay for anticipated expenses - ie, I expect that I’ll get 3-5 colds in a year based on my health history. Should I save up for that likelihood or should I expect my friends in the insurance pool to pay for it? I have no idea whether I’ll be diagnosed with cancer, get hit by a car, etc, so I’ll pay an insurance premium for those (hopefully miniscule!) possibilities.
And there is plenty of “do-it-yourself” healthcare - over the counter medications, prescription medications, chicken-noodle soup for a cold, cough drops, etc. When I don’t have to pay a dime to visit a doctor and I get a bug, I’m more likely to go see a doctor and eschew those home remedies. If I have to pay the fee, I might wait a day or so to see if it’s something serious or not.
– What’s your point? Because a small percentage of the population is neurotic, people who are actually sick should be allowed to die? Good argument.
Ummm, not exactly. My point is that people need to be educated about their healthcare options and make informed decisions. Letting the doctor suggest a procedure without knowing enough info (such as 1) the efficacy; 2) the other alternatives; 3) the respective costs) is not good for anyone - the patient or the people paying for it (aka the insurance company aka the other people in the same insurance pool).
And again, you’re talking purely about a catastrophic illnesses when you speak about health care. I am totally for catastrophic coverage as that is true insurance. It’s rare that someone would die from a cold or a sore throat. Also, well visits (aka preventative care) are often covered at not cost because insurance companies recognize that someone who takes care of themselves is less likely to have higher costs for the insurance pool.
– Great, then we should leave it as it is? Let’s make a change that fixes the system as well as our population. This seems like an easy call to me.
No, I think the current system is broken as well… as I’ve pointed out, the current system of private healthcare insulation (not insurance) keeps the consumer from getting appropriate information about doctors, the procedures, and the costs.
I think we should change the system. I just disagree that moving the costs further away from the consumer (and more into the arms of the government which already accounts for more than 50% of healthcare spending) isn’t a wise move. Fortunately, we can see the results in from other government run health systems. Much of the Prime Minister’s time in the UK is spent discussing the overcrowding of hospitals, the lack of spending for various hospitals throughout the UK, etc, etc. If you don’t trust George W. with running FEMA, imagine having to lobby him for health care.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:34 pmgovernments are inherently wasteful because they are a monopoly. Comment by stwendeler — October 11, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
That’s bull. Monopolies are wasteful because they don’t have voters keeping an eye on them! Medicare and Social Security are far more efficient than any of the free market alternatives! This is more propaganda not borne out by reality!
October 11th, 2007 at 5:42 pmFortunately, we can see the results in from other government run health systems. Comment by stwendeler — October 11, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
You call this dishonest piece of lying propaganda proof? Wow, you really are completely gullible!
The US spends twice what canada does per capita (more now thanks to the shrinking dollar), yet canadians receive better healthcare and live longer!
If you don’t trust George W. with running FEMA, imagine having to lobby him for health care. Comment by stwendeler — October 11, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
All that does is prove the GOP shouldn’t run government, it’s not an indictment of government itself! During Clinton FEMA was a jewel of efficiency!
So put away the strawmen, and remember that if you trust corporations, for you to be reminded of Worldcom and Enron (both of whom defrauded an incredible number of people)! Your fear of government doesn’t justify your complete adoration of corporations!
October 11th, 2007 at 5:45 pmAnd hey… I’ve been asking this question as well… WRT Graeme Frost.
If kids are off limits in terms of questioning their assertions in a political ad, can I shoot a couple of ads using my kids to promote my public policy preferences? Here are just two examples I can envision…
On School Choice
Ad featuring a disadvantaged student… The kind being left behind b/c of the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations.
Kid says (paraphrasing): “The teachers’ unions, the dems, and the federal government won’t give his parents the freedom of choice in selecting a better school. Closing line: “Democrats claim to care about kids, but as a kid, it seems like they care more about teachers unions that giving me the skills to succeed in life.”
On Death Tax
Ad Opens with a kid talking about how life was great. Dad ran a small business, had a house in the ‘burbs. Then dad died and, in order to pay the federal death tax, Mom had to sell the business. Closing line: “Mom used to stay at home and take care of me and my sister, but now she