White House Embraces Right-Wing Blog That Called For ‘Destroying’ Graeme Frost
White House Embraces Right-Wing Blog That Called For ‘Destroying’ Graeme Frost
Much of the far right’s smear campaign against 12-year old SCHIP recipient Graeme Frost was driven by the right-wing blogosphere. One blog in particular, Redstate, featured especially vitriolic comments. A poster there wrote of the Frost family:
If federal funds were required [they] could die for all I care. Let the parents get second jobs, let their state foot the bill or let them seek help from private charities. [...]
I would hire a team of PIs and find out exactly how much their parents made and where they spent every nickel. Then I’d do everything possible to destroy their lives with that info.
Rather than distancing themselves from the smear campaign, the White House today decided to embrace RedState and reward the blog with an official White House posting.
In a post entitled “Democrats’ SCHIP Budget Gimmick,” Nicholas Thompson, a staffer in the White House’s Office of Strategic Intiatives, rallied the conservative troops around Bush’s hard-line stance, reminding them that “we are less than one week” from Congress’ veto override vote.
In today’s New York Times, columnist Paul Krugman writes:
All in all, the Graeme Frost case is a perfect illustration of the modern right-wing political machine at work, and in particular its routine reliance on character assassination in place of honest debate. [...] Leading conservative politicians, far from trying to distance themselves from these smears, rush to embrace them.
The White House’s tacit endorsement of a blog that promoted baseless attacks against a 12-year old boy serves as a perfect illustration of Krugman’s point.
UPDATE: According to RedState, the poster who smeared Graeme was actually a respected voice in the right-wing blog. “As it turns out, it was the well-known contributor mbecker who posted that now famous comment.”
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“I’d do everything possible to destroy their lives with that info.”
WTF is wrong with these “people”?
October 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pmThe pathetic part is how many of these people who post probably don’t have insurance themselves and are one serious illness away from needing help. The only people who don’t think healthcare costs are an issue are people who have never received healthcare.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:40 pmThey keep bashing this kid and his family and a lot of Republican parents who aren’t insured will start to feel vulnerable. And they should.
Look at the picture of this kid, he is obviously some kind of “evil genius”. No wonder the Rethugs are scared shitless of him. /sarc
October 12th, 2007 at 7:42 pmIt is clearly time for a mutiny.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:42 pmI would say that’s “UNBELIEVABLE” but, sadly, it is all to common from these vermin. There is nothing to low for them to stoop to.
Rush Limbaugh has even threatened to challenge Gore’s Nobel prize.
He thinks he should have won. Talk about delusional…..
October 12th, 2007 at 7:42 pmGW666 could care less about the American public, the Repukian Fascist Scum Sucking Propaganda Smear Machine is the only friends that GW666 and Darth Dick have anymore.
And can I ask, “Can these heartless neanderthals go any lower?”, it appears not. Man I just hate these subhumans.
Buck Fush
October 12th, 2007 at 7:45 pmThey are killing their own party and I just love seeing them embrace their trash side. Just keep pointing them out and hitting them hard. I love this blog!
October 12th, 2007 at 7:45 pmSo, I guess we are now going to be led by the Rightie Blogs, who are considered the source of all wisdom, since Turd Blossom is gone. SO, be prepared for whatever Malkin and Tranny Anny Coultergeist and the rest dump into Dubya’s cavernous brain pit.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:45 pmNicholas Thompson = CUA (Completely Useless American)
October 12th, 2007 at 7:47 pmThe reichwing insists on smearing itself with feces every day. Guess they keep trying to polish the turd that they’ve become?
October 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pmGet under the bed!!!!!! Hide!!!!!!!!!
The 12 year olds are coming!!!!!!!!
October 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pmMaybe we need to visit the Rightie Blogs and give them a ration of sanity?? Which blogs should we infiltrate?
October 12th, 2007 at 7:51 pmYou know they’re getting desperate when they’re afraid of 12 year old kids! Desperate men do desperate things.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:51 pmAnd the beat goes on…
Not that I ever thought that this administration and it’s drones couldn’t stoop any lower, but for some reason I foolishly thought that there was a point in which human decency might take over. There seems to be no limits to their depravity.
And what’s just as bad is that the majority of the MSM still plays a supporting role.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:52 pmPlease post some reichwing blogs so a few of us can take a troll …er I mean stroll.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:52 pmTRDaggett: That’s because the majority of the mainstream media is owned by fat cat Repukes.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:53 pmNo child left unsmeared.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:53 pmTRDaggett: And by their payola to the Dictator, they become a wholly owned subsidiary of the white house.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:54 pmmany have left the whitehouse, but the really sick ones have stayed on.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:56 pmTRDaggett: That’s because the majority of the mainstream media is owned by fat cat Repukes.
Comment by Veritas
October 12th, 2007 at 7:57 pm——————–
Just one big dysfunctional family, eh?
Damn, I should’ve added ‘inbred’ in there too.
October 12th, 2007 at 7:59 pmGraeme Frost and his sister are born children, so the Cons don’t give a shit about them — and apparently would actively destroy them.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:00 pmOh golley, now I have to take a shower. I went and read that RS post.
Oh the FILTH!
Those CONservative freaks are taking up way too much space on this planet.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:02 pmAt last we see the real so called Christian Family Values GOP party for who they are. Is this the way true Christians act toward other Christians. What God is the White House worshipping we know the GOP worships the God of perverts, child molester and those who hire prostitutes. Now we see the real deep beliefs of this party. As these so called Christians sit in their Churches this Sunday they should be asking God to run Satan out. As of right now Satan is in the Church and Pastor Hagee is him seated at his right hand side. Bush is acting more like a Grand Wizard then a President.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:04 pmKeep in mind, folks, that comments on a blog forum are not the same thing as actual blog entries published by the blog. Let’s not get all knotted up about commenters — would you want Michael or Rory to be held up as representative of the positions (or intelligence level) of TP?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:06 pmThat having been said, how can the reichwing possibly think it’s a good idea to go after Macauley Culkin in My Girl? I guess they just can’t help themselves, can they?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:07 pm“Hang ‘em. Publically,” the contributor wrote. “Let ‘em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice.”
OMG — somebody actually advocates KILLING these people??? What kind of sick people would even THINK this? They consider receiving government assistance a capital crime?
Comments like this will backfire. If Bush and Company really think this will whip up a lot of anti-SCHIP sentiment, they’re wrong. All this is doing is attracting a great deal of support for the Frosts (there are a LOT of people in this country who can relate to them), and the Bush’s veto will be overridden in a tsunami.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:18 pmCompassionate Conservatism is really an ugly lie isn’t it?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:19 pmRalph, you have a point. He does look like Macauley culkin a bit, doesn’t he. So here’s the pitch: Left unexpectedly alone by his parents, Graeme frost finds himself up against two skulking figures–Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh–no wait, even better! Jonah Goldberg!–out to break into the house and discredit his parents! But plucky Graeme puts together all manner of clever traps and soon the wingnuts are covered in slop and looking on in horror as a bunch of metal that Graeme welded together with his dad’s equipment descends upon them!
October 12th, 2007 at 8:20 pmIt’ll be a laugh riot! HomeAlone 5–Graeme’s Story!
Keep in mind, folks, that comments on a blog forum are not the same thing as actual blog entries published by the blog. Let’s not get all knotted up about commenters — would you want Michael or Rory to be held up as representative of the positions (or intelligence level) of TP?
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — October 12, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
Anyone with half a brain visiting here for the first time would see that Michael and Rory are in the minority here.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pmThe Bushies should be forced to renounce all of the deranged hate speech and death threats from Redtate.org, or they should be tarred as complicit and in agreement with the comments.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:27 pmToo bad we don’t have a “Librul” media which will do this though, the way Fox “News” would do it to Democrats.
Americans need to know that the White House is in agreement with a website full of deranced, mentally imbalanced haters.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — October 12, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
And this: the comments posted from RS above ARE representative of the comments and opinions of not only many contributors of that site, but also of the administrators of that blog. Back in March 2006 when two Canadian aid workers and a British colleague held hostage in Iraq were freed in a rescue attempt, the administrator of that blog posted a thread in which he said he had wished the hostages hadn’t been freed. Why? Because the hostages were against the war.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pmComment by OxyCon — October 12, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
Anybody know if Olbermann picked up on this? I didn’t catch the 8:00pm broadcast; will have to Tivo it at midnight.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:30 pmAskeert of a 12 year old boy?
What a bunch of freakin cowards.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:30 pmRush Limbaugh has even threatened to challenge Gore’s Nobel prize.
He thinks he should have won. Talk about delusional…..
Comment by Mark @ News Corpse — October 12, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
Sometimes I think that Rush likes to push the envelope just to test his listeners. “How outrageous can I be before my listeners quit absorbing everything I say as if it’s gospel?” Sadly, his listeners no doubt actually believe that Rush should have won the NPP. “dit-dit-ditto, Rush!”
October 12th, 2007 at 8:31 pmThe pathetic part is how many of these people who post probably don’t have insurance themselves and are one serious illness away from needing help.
Actually the sad thing is that they may have insurance and they are still one serious illness away from needing help. Something like 40% of the bankruptcies in this country every year are because of extensive medical bills that the people can’t pay. And most of them do have insurance. All you have to do is to watch Sicko to see how many people in this country are screwed daily by their insurance companies.
I am willing to bet that the medical costs for the care of their two severely injured children came close to a million dollars. And my bet is, that even if they had a private insurance policy, this family would be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills. That would have bankrupted them. And something similar could easily happen to all these Right Wing Loons who rail against this family because they were able to get the medical help their children needed without having to declare bankruptcy.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:31 pmThe Bushies should be forced to renounce all of the deranged hate speech and death threats from Redtate.org, or they should be tarred as complicit and in agreement with the comments.
Comment by OxyCon — October 12, 2007 @ 8:27 pm
I disagree, OxyCon.
The WH should keep doing what it’s doing. Self-destructing.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:34 pmThe WH should keep doing what it’s doing. Self-destructing.
Comment by Zooey — October 12, 2007 @ 8:34 pm
Yes, Stay The Course!!!
October 12th, 2007 at 8:37 pmMaybe we need to visit the Rightie Blogs and give them a ration of sanity?? Which blogs should we infiltrate?
Comment by Veritas
Don’t bother, you won’t last very long. It took me exactly two posts to get banned by redstate.com. And they even blocked my IP address from being able to view their site. The funny thing was I did it at work, so they ended up in banning my whole company from being able to view their site.
Redstate.com would tolerate a Rory or michael (in reverse) for more than 10 minutes. The only blogs where opposing opinions are allowed are liberal blogs. And many sites like Michele Malkins site don’t even allow blog postings. You can send her an e-mail and if she likes it, she will publish it. Otherwise, she is in complete control of what gets posted on her site.
What are they afraid of? Now that’s a stupid question. We all know that they are afraid of the truth.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:38 pmThe (R) lemmings seem to forget that Cheney, Bush and many other Senators and such make enough not to need government health care and how much lobbyists take from the taxpayer trough, not to mention corporate welfare.
Yet they feign rage over this one example of Americans helping Americans?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:39 pmbilbo, good job of hosing up your company’s access to redneckstate.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:43 pmOur company frowns on employees visiting political sites anyhoo, but lots of our conservative employees (and libs as well) post whilst at work…
And they even blocked my IP address from being able to view their site-BB or by using a proxy server [google for many examples]
if your on high-speed you can possibly get a new IP address assigned thru winipcfg, ipcfg, winipconfig thru the ’start’ then ‘run’ menu.
I agree with bilbo, they cry about free speech but the whole conservative is not built upon free speech or free ideology.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:44 pmThe freepers are basically attacking one of their own with this ridiculous smear/rage over something that occured over three years ago. where was the fake rage then?
Why arent they outraged on sending a million dollar missile into an camels behind?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pmThe WH should keep doing what it’s doing. Self-destructing. — Comment by Zooey
Watching the GOP attack CHIP is like watching a zombie walk into a buzz saw.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pm“corporate welfare”
Comment by Xisithrus — October 12, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
This is one of the biggest and best issues to ever fall into the Democrats hands.
BUT, THEY ARE SUCKING AT THE SAME TEETS AS THE REPUGNISCUMS!!! WE NEED A REVOLUTION!!!
October 12th, 2007 at 8:49 pmWatching the GOP attack CHIP is like watching a zombie walk into a buzz saw.
Comment by koko the talking gorilla — October 12, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
I love those heart-warming movies. ;)
October 12th, 2007 at 8:51 pmWhite House today decided to embrace RedState and reward the blog…
Y’know, the Frost family didn’t offend the GOP by favoring SCHIP: many GOP citizens and members of Congress favor SCHIP; for God’s sake, Chuck Grassley is no lefty! It is Bush than stands in the way of SCHIP, and the Frost family’s offense was embarassing George W. Bush, an unforgivable crime according to the Cult of Bush. That is why they are being publicy pilloried.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:55 pmBUT, THEY ARE SUCKING AT THE SAME TEETS AS THE REPUGNISCUMS!!! WE NEED A REVOLUTION!!!
Comment by dixie blood
Thats likely true, but remember this bill was bi-partisan as the smear bunch denys.
If the congress is smart, those who are up for re-election, will back this. Bush is out of office and not up for re-election and it is not wise to follow a lame duck [George]
October 12th, 2007 at 8:56 pmThe reich-wingers certainly love misery.
I’ll never get’em.
peace
October 12th, 2007 at 8:57 pmY’know, the Frost family didn’t offend the GOP -KKTG
No, they didn’t. What this SCHIP bill amounts to is a 0.2% increase.
Bush, however is also now pushing for funding of NCLB. Will the same folks who decried helping an American child, now also oppose NCLB?
October 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pmComment by Xisithrus — October 12, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Agreed!!!
Except the stupid 33% Ghoul-Aid Guzzlers who never abandon the base will always be the stupid 33% Ghoul-Aid Guzzlers. You know. The Jebus lovers and “pick-up truck” morons wil allways be there for the Repugniscums.
It’s real hard to stop the stupid!! Especially when they can’t get condoms!!
October 12th, 2007 at 9:07 pmGotta wonder if mbecker is a born again xian.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:12 pmSure sounds like it.
Or maybe Daryll at redneckstate.
Darn it, Ali. Now I’m in a really bad mood all over again.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:16 pmThere’s fame and there’s defamation. How much more hate do the American people want? The home address of the family was posted on a right wing blog. They have been personally threatened. Are there no laws in this country–other than the ones that protect the fascists? Where are the prosecutions? This is harassment at least. Oh, I forget, the courts are ruling that the media can lie at will. The judges were appointed by Bush 41 and 43 and probably even Reagan. Do people really like this stuff? What civilization?
October 12th, 2007 at 9:26 pmWe are learning that the GOP has not yet hit rock bottom.
Imagine a family with two kids who were seriously injured in an auto accident working hard to adjust to this double tragedy. The parents kept the family intact and are providing care and good education for their kids who need lots of help. They are grateful for the insurance from SCHIP and made an appeal to protect the program.
Enter the crazed GOP that will do ANYTHING to protect Bush’s position. Sen. McConnell’s office sent talking points — trashing the Frost family — to the media and GOP cronies. Now, we find out from this TP story that the White House supports the smear of the Frosts.
The really sick thing is that many people don’t know about this story, because it has not been in the mainstream media — even the Louisville Courier-Journal, McConnell’s hometown newspaper. How pathetic is that? Anyone who hears this story is furious. So our job is to get out the word. Tell everyone you know, call or email your newspaper and all tv stations. Demand that they investigate this story and nail McConnell & the GOP. Contact the C-J: http://www.courier-journal.com
Has the GOP hit rock bottom? I’m afraid to think.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:40 pmWe are learning that the GOP has not yet hit rock bottom.
Comment by Ditch Mitch KY — October 12, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
There is NO BOTTOM for bottom feeders.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pmNow, we find out from this TP story that the White House supports the smear of the Frosts. -Ditch Mitch
Well, I, for one, am not worried when Casablanca depends on this type of national enquirer type rhetoric for support.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:01 pm.
Why does the president hate children?
.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:04 pmWhy does the president hate children?
Comment by Max-1 — October 12, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
He doesn’t “hate children.” He finds them quite tasty!!
But, you can’t harvest, molest and eat children unless the parents are dumbed down and the kids kept stupid too!!
RePugniScums love children, but, always in a perverted, scumbag way!!
October 12th, 2007 at 10:17 pmJust exactly what IS the RW’s definition of Compassionate Conservatism?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:18 pmDon’t forget that these lowlifes usually call themselves “Christians” too. There is absolutely nothing Christian about them except the fact that they call themselves that because they think it makes them a better republican.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:32 pmCompassionate Conservatism is a euphamism for ‘we don’t give a shit’.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:33 pmI’m happy beyond belief that some of my tax dollars went to help this family. That’s what our taxes are for, to help each other. I’m more than willing to pay even more taxes if I can be assured that it will help my fellow Americans. It sure as hell beats starting a war so my big corporate donors and buddies at Halliburton, Blackwater, Bechtel, Exxon/Mobil, etc. can make huge, obscene profits with the blood of our military.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:37 pmOn the plus side if there is anything to karma the people smearing this family have a never ending supply of bad karma coming their way. Oh and the only time the rethugs care about children is before they’re born. Of course they don’t cost anything when they’re fetuses. Especially when you deprive the mother of prenatal care.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:47 pmok, so I went over to Redstate, perused their site, found a thread on Al Gore.
then I did a Rune Cast, focusing on their site. This was the message from the Universe to Redstate:
Now, mind you, I was only trying to draw one Rune. Actually, three Runes came out. The third, Jera, or Year, fell from my hand before I could place it on the table. It stands for Karma. “What goes around comes around.” Karma – falling.
All in all, not good signs for Redstate.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:51 pmI never thought I would live to see the day that the American people would be so ignorant and evil to allow the fascists (neo-conservatives) destroy our democracy.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:52 pmOn the plus side if there is anything to karma the people smearing this family have a never ending supply of bad karma coming their way -Shayne
Well, BNF beat me to that.
Here, BNF, is my name, Bradley, what do thy runes tell you, if I may enquire of you.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:56 pmComment by kasinca — October 12, 2007 @ 10:52 pm
The American people are not ignorant, I think, Kasi, but are blinded by half truths. They truly think they are doing what is right but fail to look behind the veils that compel them to do so.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:01 pmChickensh*t A-hole repuglicans. I’d like to see that kid pound your wretched sweat-stained tax dollars up your cyst-riven sphincters. Graeme, you look like a good kid to me; I’m proud of you, and I’m proud of your family, and how you’ve stood up to this party of scumsucking mutants.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:07 pmAs the original Muppet, Jimmy Dean’s dog Ralph used to say…
“The Man has No Shame!”
October 12th, 2007 at 11:40 pmOne of the White House press corps needs to ask Dana Peroxide if President Bush thinks that 12 year old Graeme Frost and his family should be “Hung publicly, twisting in the wind while being eaten by ravens†the way his personal friends at Redstate.com think those “socialist patsy†Frosts should?
October 12th, 2007 at 11:42 pmDon’t sugarcoat it marlow, how do you really feel.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:44 pm{:^)
This is why no one talks about “compassionate conservatism” anymore.
It’s sad how low the Republican party has fallen.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:10 ambilbo, good job of hosing up your company’s access to redneckstate.
Our company frowns on employees visiting political sites anyhoo, but lots of our conservative employees (and libs as well) post whilst at work…
Comment by RUCerious
For the most part I only post during lunch and on breaks and my company doesn’t care what you do then (other than obviously objectionable things like visiting porn sites). My company is actually a non-profit so I’m fairly sure there were not many people who would have even wanted to go to redstate.com.
Funny thing, I guess my banning from viewing the site has worn off, or I got a new IP address because I can get there now. But, when I go there and read what those people post, I end up feeling like I need a bath, so I don’t go there.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:35 amThe Repukian Fascist have become a international embarassment to us. People from other countries are reading this crap and wondering WTF is wrong with these people.
Buck Fush
October 13th, 2007 at 12:40 amKeith Olberman is having the Frosts on his show on Monday. Should be a good one.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:45 amBTW, what has happened to all our resident trolls tonight? Is there a troll convention under some bridge or something. I don’t think there was one troll post on this thread.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:45 am65:
It is not a good time to travel.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:50 amIt is not a good time to travel.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
Okay.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:20 amActually, this blog entry is incorrect. I’ve read the “right wing” blogs rip the parents of the 12-year old. I’ve read the “right wing” blogs rip the Democrats for exploiting a 12-year old.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:21 amEven Bill Maher had to agree that a child was inserted into this fight so that Dems could jump back from the fray, daring Reps to “hit a child”.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:28 amComment by muckdog — October 13, 2007
What are you saying muckdog? You practicing talking points?
October 13th, 2007 at 1:29 amKeith Olberman is having the Frosts on his show on Monday. Should be a good one.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 13, 2007 @ 12:45 am
Thanks for the heads-up.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:31 amI just haven’t read where anyone is accusing the 12-yr old of anything other than reading what was given to him to read. And kudos to his private school for helping him learn to read. So many public schools are failing to teach kids to read.
His parents? Well… Typical hypocritical libs. Driving 3 big gas guzzlers. Working part-time jobs. Enrolling in government programs that are meant to help the needy, not the lazy. What do psychologists call that? “Peter Pan Syndrome?” From Wiki: the characteristics of a “Peter-Pan” include such attributes as irresponsibility, rebelliousness, pottering about, anger, narcissism, dependency, manipulativeness, and the belief that he is beyond society’s laws and norms.
Sounds like the parents, eh?
October 13th, 2007 at 1:53 amNo muckdog, actually it sounds like you. How many kids are you raising, they’re raising 4. Of course they’re not fetuses anymore so you probably could care less. But it’s not that easy to find childcare for 4 kids especially when two of them have a disability. And of course you know the job market in their area is blooming with opportunities to find jobs that pay lots and offer insurance, right.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:00 amAnd they even blocked my IP address from being able to view their site-BB or by using a proxy server [google for many examples]
if your on high-speed you can possibly get a new IP address assigned thru winipcfg, ipcfg, winipconfig thru the ’start’ then ‘run’ menu.
I agree with bilbo, they cry about free speech but the whole conservative is not built upon free speech or free ideology.
Comment by Xisithrus — October 12, 2007 @ 8:44 pm
It wouldn’t surprise me if sites like RedState are turning over these IP addresses to the NSA as “visits of interest.”
We know that at least 2 phone companies have turned over phone call records to the government, but (and correct me if I am wrong), nothing has been said about these same phone companies turning over IP addresses, and their surfing destinations/patterns, from Internet traffic. To kind of put this in perspective, it’s nothing for the recording industry to track IP addresses of folks sharing MP3 files via the Internet and then request subscriber info from the ISPs, and use this info to file lawsuits against the “thieves.”
Having worked in the past as an Internet support tech, I had forgotten about my old friend “traceroute,” used to check for traffic problems along the Internet. Curious, I did a traceroute to yahoo.com using their DNS address, and lo and behold what company had routers that handled two of the hops? AT&T.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:28 ammuckdog is projecting again. **yawn**
October 13th, 2007 at 2:34 amAnd kudos to his private school for helping him learn to read. So many public schools are failing to teach kids to read.
That’s a rather smart ass remark to make in reference to the kid.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:37 amComment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 1:53 am
I bet if this kid’s parents were Republicans and he and his parents and his 3 siblings had gathered around Bush at the WH for the very publicized veto of the embryonic stem cell bill, you wouldn’t be so damned vocal about the typical hypocritical conservatives who drive 3 big gas guzzlers and work part time jobs.
Idiot.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:50 amThey could move. I lived in a town with no jobs at one time. I moved.
Why do you libs think that society owes you a living and that you’re entitled to sit around “pottering about” instead of taking responsibility for yourselves?
And do you support the Frosts lifestyle? 4 kids. I thought libs were for zero population growth because of the environment. 3 low-mileage SUVs/trucks. Don’t libs hate gas guzzlers? Don’t libs believe that these are things that cause “climate change?” Private schools mostly paid for by the government. Don’t libs sing hallelujahs over the public school system and oppose vouchers? 3-strikes on the Frosts. Typical hypocritical libs.
Lets be intellectually honest here. The Frosts are a typical liberal Peter Pan Syndrome family: From Wiki: the characteristics of a “Peter-Pan†include such attributes as irresponsibility, rebelliousness, pottering about, anger, narcissism, dependency, manipulativeness, and the belief that he is beyond society’s laws and norms.
“Pottering about” on the government dole. That’s a lib for ya.
You should change the party mascot from a Donkey to a Sloth.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:53 amI just haven’t read where anyone is accusing the 12-yr old of anything other than reading what was given to him to read.
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 1:53 am
You obviously know so much, what the hell do you think the ignorant SOB poster at RedState, listed above (if you have any reading comprehension skills…or did you attend one of the public schools you lambasted in your post?), is accusing the kid of that makes him say the kid can die?
October 13th, 2007 at 2:57 amI’m taking a poll.
Is there a more stupid troll than muckdog?
October 13th, 2007 at 2:59 amAnd there are no Republicans in this country who live a similar lifestyle to the Frosts. Not one family.
I’m so glad muckdog opened my eyes. I can now sleep well.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:13 amCome on, mucky, answer my post. Why does a kid “reading from someone else’s script” deserve to die? Is that what you are supporting? You say that nobody is taking shots at the kid, yet right there it is, at the top of this page, in front of your fcking eyes.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:16 amHey Zooey, do you think the Frosts insure those 3 big cars?
October 13th, 2007 at 3:18 amI’m taking a poll.
Is there a more stupid troll than muckdog?
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 2:59 am
I don’t know…it’s pretty close, considering we have Michael and Rory to contend with.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:18 amComment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 3:18 am
Hey muckdog, answer my question.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:21 amIs there a more stupid troll than muckdog?
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 2:59 am
Oh, and it’s “more stupider.” I went to a public school, you know. : )
October 13th, 2007 at 3:24 amHey Zooey, do you think the Frosts insure those 3 big cars?
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 3:18 am
The Frosts applied (because they qualified,) and were accepted into the SCHIP by the state of Maryland.
They are exactly in the demographic the program was designed to help.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your smears and innuendos.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:30 amRun and hide, Mucky. You won’t answer my question because you can’t answer it. Despite your strutting around here and labeling all liberals as the devil, you cannot defend what the contributor at Redstate posted about the Frosts. I’ll even bet that individual considers himself a conservative Christian, just oozing with family values. No…wait. Let me put it in proper context. He considers himself a conservative “Christian.”
This family went through hell when their kids were injured, and they likely didn’t know if they were going to survive. Where’s the consideration for them and what they went through? Where’s the compassion? No…all you can do is b*tch about what kind of cars they drive and wonder whether or not they pay insurance on them.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:47 amSORRY, OFF-TOPIC HERE…
IDEA: “Constitution Lapel Pins” for Dem Leaders
Howdy. I really would appreciate your brief feedback on something I’ve thought about off-and-on for months. Not sure if it’s a great idea or Beavis & Butthead.
Let Republicans have their stupid flag lapel pins, because pins are lame. That said, I’m proposing an idea for…..yep, a lapel pin. How about encouraging Dem leaders to sport “Constitution Pins†on their lapels? They might appear as a gilded, partially unrolled scroll. This pin, like other pins, is meaningless in itself. But it would quickly become a talking point. Chris Matthews, George Stephanopoulos, Bob Schieffer and others will interview Dems and pop the inevitable question for many weeks, “So I see you are wearing one of the new Constitution pins. Explain what that means to you, and why.†This would be the perfect set-up for what Dems have been yelling anyway: “We have a president who, in his lust for executive power, has repeatedly undermined our nation’s Constitution in a brazen manner we would have never imagined not so long ago. Whether it’s illegally monitoring our citizens’ communications, claims that torture is something other than that, or outing our undercover intelligence agents for political gain, this is not only unacceptable to us, but it goes against the core democratic principals this republic was founded on. IF THE PRESIDENT WON’T DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, THEN WE MOST CERTAINLY WILL.†Etc etc etc. The pins would not only provide a new talking point, but could come to visually symbolize everything that Dems have been passionately yelling about for the past 7 years.
SO, GREAT IDEA?……OR TOTAL BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD? PLEASE LET ME KNOW! THANK YOU.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:51 amWell, goodnight (or goodmorning) all…I’m off to bed. Will check back in later today.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:57 amRemember that on this date 500 plus years ago, Columbus landed in the “New World”. Did anyone in the MSM remind you of that? Why?
October 13th, 2007 at 5:02 amYeah muckdog.
After all, what greater joy can any parent have, then watching their 12 year old child die for want of healthcare? /sarcasm.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:04 amUh-OH! Looks like there’s dissent at the *sshole factory!
October 13th, 2007 at 9:10 am#59- Yeah, they’re the first to tell you what GREAT Christ-Stains they are.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:12 amOne at my place of work actually said the BIBLE condoned torture. I’m sure it does, somewhere.
O. Bigfoot
Oh, and it isn’t exactly like you rightwingers haven’t tried to use commentors opinions against leftwing blogs before.
But then, of course, IOKYAR.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:28 amOh, and another thing big foot,
Lets see, a president, whose reign has seen 1 signature city all but destroyed, the towers knocked down, America’s name for human rights raped into the dirt, two wars (Neither of which are looking particularly winnable) a failing economy etc…
And a twelve year old boy who got SCHIP benefits.
Gee I wonder whether you might not be trading on a false equivalency because that is all you have to back your sordid, miserly, miserable ideology.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:35 amOr is this just another case where selective censorship would be preferable to open discussion, as long as the censorship supports the liberal point of view?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 13, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Why not? Conservatives are doing their level best to destroy this country, and several others. Notice that Bush and Cheney are to be hanged AFTER a trial, unlike the redstate death threats against people who merely speak out against Bushco. A little censorship of the right wing traitors will actually go a long way to preventing the violence that could erupt when the free people of the USA have had enough of the treason and antiAmericanism of the Bush followers. there is no “open discussion” with the closed minds of the right, and we have seen, historically, how harmful and damaging rightwingers become if they’re allowed to fester. You don’t hold “opposing” points of view, you hold homicidal, sociopathic points of view, which are always brought to bear violently. Perhaps a little self-censorship from you halfwits would be prudent.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:41 amY’know, the Frost family didn’t offend the GOP by favoring SCHIP: many GOP citizens and members of Congress favor SCHIP; for God’s sake, Chuck Grassley is no lefty! It is Bush than stands in the way of SCHIP, and the Frost family’s offense was embarassing George W. Bush, an unforgivable crime according to the Cult of Bush. That is why they are being publicy pilloried.
you posted this the other day & i wanted to give it 10 recommedations…its so true, & that is what is the most disgusting about it…its *NOT* about the issue of SCHIP, its for making BUSHâ„¢ “look bad” that the Frost Family is being punished!
& its just like Plame…the Frost Family are being made an example of…”we will do this to ANYONE who publically embaresses DEAR LEADERâ„¢!!!”
October 13th, 2007 at 9:50 amFrom Wiki: the characteristics of a “Peter-Pan†include such attributes as irresponsibility, rebelliousness, pottering about, anger, narcissism, dependency, manipulativeness, and the belief that he is beyond society’s laws and norms.
Sounds like the parents, eh?
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 1:53 am
sounds like BUSHâ„¢.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:09 am“pottering about” = “clearing brush”
TC-12 – “Constitution Pins” – excellent idea.
Perhaps the pins should have holes in them, symbolizing the parts of the Constitution Bush has eliminated.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:23 amO bigfoot – sticking words in other people’s mouths….
October 13th, 2007 at 10:24 amWell of course they are, where do you think the wingnut blogs get their marching orders? The GOP is a lemming party, and the hive controls everything!
Comment by republicans hate facts — October 12, 2007 @ 7:37
As opposed to lefties whose opinions vary wildly as evidenced by the postings on this site? ;)
October 13th, 2007 at 10:39 amAnyone remember the following sequence of news items from early 2005? The paragraphs can be found on the CNN website for Thursday, February 10, 2005 Posted: 9:04 AM EST (1404 GMT). URL is: http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/09/white.house.reporter/
1) “Last month, conservative commentator Armstrong Williams apologized for not disclosing that his company had received $240,000 from a public relations agency hired by the Department of Education to promote Bush’s No Child Left Behind education overhaul.”
2) “Syndicated columnist Maggie Gallagher also apologized to her readers for not disclosing a $21,500 contract with the Department of Health and Human Services to help create materials used to promote Bush’s $300 million initiative encouraging marriage to strengthen families.”
3) “HHS later disclosed that a third conservative columnist, Mike McManus, had received $10,000 to promote Bush’s marriage initiative, according to an Associated Press report. His weekly column appears in about 50 newspapers.”
4) “A New York congresswoman asked the White House to explain Wednesday why a man who worked for a news Web site owned by a GOP activist was able to obtain White House press credentials under an assumed name.”
“James Guckert, who reported from the White House for the Talon News Service under the name ‘Jeff Gannon,’ announced he was quitting the business ‘in consideration of the welfare of me and my family.’”
Does anyone truly believe that this practice by the White House has stopped? Either it has (as likely a prospect as Limbaugh swearing off Viagra and trips to the Dominican Republic, which incidentally is a sex tourism destination for those attracted to minor children — http://www.ecpat.org.uk/downloads/Dom_Rep05.pdf) or the MSM has quit reporting on it for some “strange” reason (ala Cheney, “other priorities”, perhaps?).
Could it be that CNN (and their compatriots) are now receiving payola to keep “repeating the propaganda”, either directly or indirectly, and now deem it best to maintain silence?
If so, another example of our hard-earned tax dollars at work.
The following quotes are illustrative:
“…the rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly…it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” — Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister (1933-1945)
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.â€- George W. Bush – May 24, 2005
“You can fool some of the people all the time, and these are the ones you want to concentrate on” — (George W. Bush, spoken at a Washington Dinner, March 2001)
October 13th, 2007 at 10:39 amIDEA: “Constitution Lapel Pins†for Dem Leaders [...]
SO, GREAT IDEA?……OR TOTAL BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD? PLEASE LET ME KNOW! THANK YOU.
Comment by TC-12 — October 13, 2007 @ 3:51 am
ANOTHER IDEA – and it’s happening now:
Congressional Fashion Statement
[...]
Today, on the House floor, Mr. Yarmuth began distributing small buttons, seemingly made of parchment, with the words, “Article 1†– as in Article 1 of the Constitution, which states, “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.â€
In other words: Mr. President, the Congress would like to remind you, that you, dear pal, are Article 2.
[...]
Of course, the Constitution also has its inconveniences. Mr. Yarmuth said that the “Article 1†pins were needed in part because Democrats had struggled to flex their political muscles legislatively over the last year.
[...]
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/10/congressional-fashion-statement-were-article-1/
tell YOURS to get THEIRS. AND WEAR IT.
October 13th, 2007 at 11:08 am.
Remember that on this date 500 plus years ago, Columbus landed in the “New Worldâ€. Did anyone in the MSM remind you of that? Why?
Comment by foreyes — October 13, 2007 @ 5:02 am
Maybe it’s because after centuries of thinking otherwise, we finally realize that this half of the world existed long before some white guy “discovered” it.
Now, can we get back to the topic of the thread?
October 13th, 2007 at 11:26 amI just made the mistake of following the link over to Redstate….
Amazingly I made it most of the way down the first page.
Most of the comments read like they were written by dangerous psychopaths! Some of the comments border on threatening violence and hate speech, and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if some of them would actually act out their hatred if given the opportunity. This is not covered under ‘freedom of speech’ and they should realize that.
On the right there was a link to “Conservatives are more tolerant that lefties”, and to the left of that was nothing but comments filled with intolerance and hate.
The nastiness and venom is so thick there, but it’s worth remembering that their actual numbers are thankfully small and closed, as are their minds. That does not mean that it’s to be tolerated or accepted. Decent people have the obligation to say “We don’t accept this, this is wrong!” as loudly and forcefully as we can.
We will prevail in the long run, but not by tolerating this kind of malevolence. This is one case in which I will not be tolerant!
October 13th, 2007 at 11:51 amRe: Comment #105 and #106 –
#105 – If Christopher Columbus were to be reincarnated today, he’d probably discover that he and Dick Cheney (and those of like mind), share much in common. For more details, please refer to http://www.nhne.org/news/NewsArticlesArchive/tabid/400/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3671/Thom-Hartmann-On-Christopher-Columbus.aspx
How about a resolution in Congress to replace Columbus Day with another national holiday recognizing someone whose impact on history was beneficial, not destructive?
#106 – Should the Fourth Reich surface in this country, there would seem to be no shortage of willing applicants for positions with the United States’ version of Schutzstaffel (S.S.). Might that be spelled “Blackwater”?
October 13th, 2007 at 12:03 pmWell, considering that Redstate posted a blog entry on their front page from a reader who couldn’t give a damn that hostages were released, and the very first commenter suggested that the hostages be returned to their captors simply because they were anti-war, I’d say the comments posted at the top of this thread fall right in line with Redstate’s administrators’ opinions.
A Briton and two Canadians held hostage in Iraq for almost four months have been freed, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said Thursday. Briton Norman Kember, 74, and Canadians James Loney, 41, and Harmeet Singh Sooden, 32, were freed during a military operation in Baghdad involving British special forces.
Whoo-freakin-pee.
First comment:
When I first heard about the rescue of “The Christian Peace Workers” on the radio this morning I figured it wouldn’t be a week before they were badmouthing the war, the “occupation” and their liberators.
Appraently it didn’t take a day.
Ungrateful. Bastards.
Perhaps we should just drop them back off where we picked them up.
I’m sure the Jihadists would be happy to see them again.
Link
And you can mark off the owner of the Gay Patriot blog as being concerned about the same hostages and being able to put aside his differences:
I have an idea… send ‘em back and sit their lily-white Western-faced asses in the middle of an intersection in Sadr City.
Now, O. Biggie, find threads where the owners of ThinkProgress post similar hate-filled, uncaring main threads.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:16 pmOh…my above post is in reference to…
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 13, 2007 @ 9:15 am
October 13th, 2007 at 12:18 pmNow, excuse me while I go fumigate my computer…
October 13th, 2007 at 12:18 pmHey Zooey, do you think the Frosts insure those 3 big cars?
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 3:18 am
Hey Muck Dick, I don’t know for a FACT that the Frosts own three big cars — we just have the word of you morons on that.
Leave off this family. If they didn’t qualify, both of those kids would be drooling, and then you could be happy.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:37 pmRe: #108 –
Muckdog, let’s say someone runs a red light during your next trip to the grocery store and you are unable to work for an extended period of time. How long will your employer continue to send you your paycheck and will they continue to pay for all your benefits? If their patience runs out at some point, you now have a pre-existing condition. Good luck trying to find a private health care insurance company to cover you at any cost.
And then there is the medical care that you will need, to alleviate pain and help you to regain normal functioning to the greatest extent possible. Who is going to pay for this? Rather than potentially becoming a burden to taxpayers in this country, true to your apparent convictions, would you voluntarily place yourself on an ice floe?
Perhaps you’ve worked hard and built a large nest egg — how long until your savings runs out? Then what? Can your family or friends afford to step in and pay for those costs on an ongoing basis? Would you want to place them in the position of either spending themselves into bankruptcy trying to help you or dealing with the guilt associated with not being able to help enough? What would you do if one of your loved ones ended up in a situation such as the one just described? Might you resent living in a country where anyone can be placed in the position of having to decide between bankruptcy or guilt?
So what’s your plan?
October 13th, 2007 at 12:47 pmRemember that on this date 500 plus years ago, Columbus landed in the “New Worldâ€. Did anyone in the MSM remind you of that? Why?
Comment by foreyes — October 13, 2007 @ 5:02 am
Yes, and it’s been celebrated 515 times. I think we get the picture.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:50 pmSo what’s your plan?
Comment by curmudgeon — October 13, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
That’s it. You just chased him off until the next Global Warming thread.
:-D
October 13th, 2007 at 12:53 pmO bigfoot – sticking words in other people’s mouths….
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — October 13, 2007 @ 10:24 am
The real question here is what odes Li’l Footie like stickin’ in HIS mouth?
October 13th, 2007 at 1:14 pmAs opposed to lefties whose opinions vary wildly as evidenced by the postings on this site? ;)
Comment by upright left — October 13, 2007 @ 10:39 am
All you ever do is come here and find fault w/ other people. You NEVER have an opinion of what could be or needs to be done.
NOT VERY BRAVE OF YOU, huh?
As far as peoples’ opinions varying, that would be the human condition, wouldn’t it? Even someone like you gets to have your “non-opinions”.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:16 pmTRoS,
upright left doesn’t even see the irony in that comment. He needs to look up the word “lemming.”
October 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pmComment by curmudgeon — October 13, 2007 @ 12:47 pm
And, even if he recovers from his injuries to the point that he can go back to work before he is fired or his insurance drops him, if he has a permanent injury that otherwise does not debilitate him in the near term, he still has that pre-existing condition.
I was in an accident in 1983 in which I was thrown from a car. The injuries included a cracked C-6 vertebra and a compressed disc. I recovered from the accident OK, and have otherwise been able to live a relatively normal life. I have a 20% disability that will be with me for the rest of my life, meaning I’ve lost the use of 20% of my body. I have limitations on lifting (no more than 25 pounds) and playing sports (no contact sports). As you can imagine, this severely limits the type of work I can perform as a career. It’s a good thing I didn’t play football or basketball in high school, for that would have been the end of it. I can’t even change a light bulb or do any other work above my head, such as painting a ceiling, without my neck and shoulders aching after just a few minutes.
The doctors told me that if I was ever in another accident in which my head and neck were violently thrust forward (say, if I ran into the back of another car), it is possible that my chin could end up touching my chest and my head would be locked in a downward-facing position. Other than that and possibly an earlier-than-normal set up of arthritis in my neck, I don’t know what to expect as I age.
This is my pre-existing condition.
Hey, Muckdog. You think I asked for this accident? Do you think I could have anticipated it? I passed out before I was thrown out of the car, so I didn’t even have a chance to grab hold of something to keep me inside; this was a 1966 Bronco that did not have seat belts. The other two occupants, who did stay inside, escaped unscathed. If you think nothing like this can happen to you, you are an ignorant fool.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pmHey Zooey, do you think the Frosts insure those 3 big cars?
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 3:18 am
Hey Muck Dick, I don’t know for a FACT that the Frosts own three big cars — we just have the word of you morons on that.
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
AMEN.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:30 pmsomeone has internalized his talking points to the point of confusing them with reality.
those righties are sick, mean people, and they all sing quite a different tune when misfortune knocks at their doors.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:37 pmIf anyone hasn’t checked out EJ Dionne’s column about this, please do so:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101101601.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
October 13th, 2007 at 1:48 pmBigfoot is engaging in the usual rightard black & white “thinking”, as they call it, because the limits of the conservative brain will not allow for that gray area where real humans actually live. Don’t forget, conservatives are hundreds, if not thousands, of years behind the evolutionary curve; the technology has far outstripped their abilities. They still want to solve every problem with clubs; unfortunately, their high-tech clubs kill thousands of innocents, which they then clain as collateral damage, as if a human were a divot on a gold course. these are not-quite-humans we’re attempting to deal with, and we really won’t get anywhere with them until we start treating them as they treat other humans.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:54 pmsuckdog is never anywhere near the facts, the facts being left-leaning.
October 13th, 2007 at 1:59 pmI’m taking a poll.
Is there a more stupid troll than muckdog?
Comment by Zooey
No, and his posts are not worth responding to. He has drunk the kool-aid to the point where he is hopelessly addicted and there is nothing we can do to help him at this point.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:07 pmmuckdog
A dog that lies in the muck. Couldn’t have chosen a better moniker if he tried!
October 13th, 2007 at 2:10 pmIs there a more stupid troll than muckdog?
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 2:59 am
I’d say he’s got competition. And it’s a tough one too: Michael, Jake D., Mr. P (and his many personalities), Tracy…
All of these twits have shown complete inability to understand current events, any explanations about them, and tenaciously cling on to their alternate version of reality.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:12 pm#109 – So what’s your plan? Comment by curmudgeon
Wow, that was an excellent post. You put it in words that even the Right Wing Loons can understand. Of course their comeback will be “that will never happen”.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:15 pmLeave off this family. If they didn’t qualify, both of those kids would be drooling, and then you could be happy.
Comment by Zooey
Correct Zooey and the family would also be bankrupted with no way to pay for future care for their children. But, I’m sure that is OK with the Right Wing Loons. Because it is the parents fault that they can’t afford high priced private insurance, and it is the parent’s fault that their children were in that car accident that caused their grave injuries. To the Right Wing Loons, it’s always someone’s fault (except their own).
October 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pmComment by bilbobaggins — October 13, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
Of course it will never happen.
Curmudgeon is under the erroneous impression there is a way to help muckdog and his fellow Bush cultists to “regain normal functioning”.
You cannot regain what you didn’t previously have. It will never happen.
/sarcasm off
October 13th, 2007 at 2:21 pmAs opposed to lefties whose opinions vary wildly as evidenced by the postings on this site? ;)
Comment by upright left
You know Right Wing Loon Upright, I would much rather belong to a party of thinking reasoning adults that have varying opinions on subjects than a party of Lemmings marching off the cliff after the Moron in Chief. I really wish that was not just a metaphor, I would love to see all these Loons really and truly marching off a cliff. Then we would be rid of them.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:27 pmThey stopped short of accusing the boy of being threat to our freedom and democracy…!!
October 13th, 2007 at 2:33 pmFrom Wiki: the characteristics of a “Peter-Pan†include such attributes as irresponsibility, rebelliousness, pottering about, anger, narcissism, dependency, manipulativeness, and the belief that he is beyond society’s laws and norms.
Sounds like the parents, eh?
Comment by muckdog
No, actually it describes George Bush to a tee. Thank you so much. We will forth with start referring to George Bush as man who is suffering from Peter-Pan Syndrome.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:34 pmSo then you are on record as supporting censorship, Lefty? Just want to make that clear.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
I don’t believe anyone here is supporting censorship. We are simply saying that the things that people post on redstate.com are despicable. And you will notice that you are able to post here. But if any of us try to post on redstate we will very quickly be banned. The Right Wing blogs are the ones who practice censorship, not the progressive blogs.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:36 pmAs usual, the Right Wing Loon OBigFootInMouth drops by for two drive-bys and then splits. He doesn’t have the guts to stick around and defend his inane comments.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:37 pm#129 Yup. StinkFoot is well known to this board as a coward.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:01 pmLets be intellectually honest here.
Comment by muckdog — October 13, 2007 @ 2:53 am
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
What the F**K would YOU know about intellectual honesty, Muckdog? You have been repeatedly caught lying at this site about global warming science.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:08 pmComment by VerbalKint — October 13, 2007 @ 3:08 pm
That is soo rich, coming from muckdog!
You actually made me scroll back to find that comment.
There is no way this twit knows the first thing about intellectual honesty. He not only posts repeated lies about global climate change (the same ones over and over, even as they have shown to be lies), he ignores facts that contradict his version of reality.
He tried to argue with me once that the only alternative to oil is nuclear energy. I gave him links to websites that highlight the efforts European countries are undertaking to reduce their dependence on petroleum, and find alternatives to nuclear energy (because of that pesky waste and all). His response? “Those wind mills already existed and only work when there is wind, anyway” Well, duh!! And nuclear plants only work if there is uranium available. Duh!
October 13th, 2007 at 3:22 pmI would much rather belong to a party of thinking reasoning adults that have varying opinions on subjects…
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 13, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
Glad to hear you’ll no longer be a liberal, then, bud. ;)
October 13th, 2007 at 4:00 pm“So then you are on record as supporting censorship, Lefty? Just want to make that clear.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
But is it “censorship” to challenge someone who refuses to tell the truth?
Bigfoot always posts wingnut propaganda – so muzzling a proven liar like him ain’t really censorship. The Constitution gives no provision for protecting liars.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:05 pm“Glad to hear you’ll no longer be a liberal, then, bud.”
Comment by upright left —
As funny as a heart-attack – yours, to be more specific…
October 13th, 2007 at 4:07 pmAs funny as a heart-attack – yours, to be more specific…
Comment by barfly — October 13, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
Now was that nice? ;)
October 13th, 2007 at 4:20 pmTo the Right Wing Loons, it’s always someone’s fault (except their own).
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 13, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
That was a joke, right? Because we all know lefites are the ones advocating the abandonment of personal responsibility. ;)
October 13th, 2007 at 4:23 pmI just checked out the Digg.com users page for mbecker908. Much to my shock “mbecker908 only allows their friends to send them shouts” and “mbecker908 hasn’t received any shouts yet.” And since August 2006, “mbecker908 hasn’t added any friends.”
I’m willing to bet that mbecker908’s status on Digg is a pretty accurate reflection of his or her status in the non-cyber world as well.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:52 pmMalkin has updated her site with an “anonymous” email from someone who claims to be a neighbor of the Frost family, and who then goes on to take more cheap, personal potshots at them. It seems that Ms. Malkin’s “I am John Doe” campaign …neighbors reporting neighbors…is taking root.
October 13th, 2007 at 5:02 pmOthers have said that we should stop writing about her, as it only draws more attention to her. I strongly disagree. She needs the spotlight on her 24/7. She has been getting away with her disgraceful writing and behavior for far too long.
Re: Post #124 —
For the record, I have almost zero hope that anything short of a catastrophic event directly impacting a troll can ever jar such an unfortunate being out of their destructive march toward oblivion (and even under such extreme conditions, such a positive result is far from certain).
I was just curious to find out what set of talking points was being used these days to answer questions such as the ones I raised.
Amazing how many trolls disappear when posed with even a relatively simple challenge.
October 13th, 2007 at 5:08 pmI’m sorry to post a completely off track message here about Ann Coulter. But I looked everywhere on TP, and was surprised to find nothing t on this psycho’s latest rambling about Jews needing to be ‘perfected’ when she appeared on ‘The Big Idea’. Deutsch was so shocked he went to commercial.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s63rzfy8FFs
October 13th, 2007 at 6:25 pmGlad to hear you’ll no longer be a liberal, then, bud. ;)
Comment by upright left
Sorry loon, it is the right that marches in lockstep with Bush like a bunch of lemmings. It is the right that gets their marching orders from the RNC or Fox News. The left thinks, reasons and explores multiple “truths” to come to their own conclusion as to what truth they believe. The right goes to Faux Noise and if they say it, then it must be true.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:26 pmrightwingers simply have no souls…thus their christian fanaticism…hoping someone will redeem them from their hellish life…thus their hatred and venom….that these republican subhumans spew all this contempt on an unfortunate family because some of my tax money has gone to help them, while ignoring the BILLIONS being squandered in this insane war in Iraq and BILLIONS wasted throught corrupt contractors favored by the republipigs…There is simply no explanation that any sane human can offer for this behavior…Were I of their ilk, I guess I would be praying that they be struck by lightning or a speeding semi….so they could use the private health insurance they are fortunate enough to have
October 13th, 2007 at 6:48 pmSorry loon, it is the right that marches in lockstep with Bush like a bunch of lemmings. It is the right that gets their marching orders from the RNC or Fox News. The left thinks, reasons and explores multiple “truths†to come to their own conclusion as to what truth they believe. The right goes to Faux Noise and if they say it, then it must be true.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 13, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
So righties follow right leaning media and lefties follow left leaning media, but not for the same reasons? I hope that belief makes ya feel better. By the way, if everyone gets to “find their own truth,” then truth means nothing. You get to have your own beliefs, but truth is what it is, not what you want it to be. Truth can be verified, remember? Not all beliefs can. ;)
October 13th, 2007 at 6:51 pmBecause we all know lefites are the ones advocating the abandonment of personal responsibility. ;)
Comment by upright left — October 13, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Yeah?
Prove it.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:01 pmSo, we lefties “support the abandoment of personal responsibility”…?? Have you heard of the concept of community? commonwealth? …without it there is no reason to have a state or nation…In my view, libertarian concept of “everyman for himself” , no regulations is just a disguise for anarchy and irresponsibility to the community beyond your front door…the myth of “self reliance” and the frontier mentality never was and has no place in contemporary society…those who spouse it are simply cromagnons who long for the old days back in the cave…but even those folks formed tribes to help one another, did they not? And what would your “jesus” character say about helping one another?
October 13th, 2007 at 7:33 pm#137 – Bush and his criminal administration are always keen on blaming someone else, Democrats, Clinton for his recession, the Iraqis, you name it. When have they accepted personal responsibility? Name one time…
October 13th, 2007 at 8:50 pmI meant Clinton for Bush’s recession…
October 13th, 2007 at 8:51 pmAll:
Programming note
Graeme Frost’s parents will be interviewed on Countdown on Monday.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:08 pmPersonal responsibility, huh? I guess that means watching your son die in front of you if you don’t happen to possess the bank account to save him. Looks like Zooey is still waiting.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pmwhy do you always play their game?
October 13th, 2007 at 10:50 pmWhen have they accepted personal responsibility? Name one time…
Comment by ucsbclassics53 — October 13, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
so is this one… waiting…
October 13th, 2007 at 11:06 pm…
marlow,
upright left has always been a coward and a fool.
October 13th, 2007 at 11:41 pmBecause we all know lefites are the ones advocating the abandonment of personal responsibility. ;)
Comment by upright left — October 13, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Yeah?
Prove it.
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 7:01 pm
Certainly!
I need an abortion. Why didn’t you take precautions? We didn’t have any money and Planned Parenthood isn’t open at midnight. What did you expect us to do, abstain? Of course not. Certainly you should have an abortion. We can’t afford it. Well the govt will provide. Do you have bus fare?
——
Legalize drugs, adults should be able to choose. You’re addicted, can’t afford rehab? The govt will provide.
Hey, you can’t send him to jail for that robbery. He was high, he is an addict, he needs treatment not punishment. Hey, he never meant to kill that guy, he was high, where is your humanity? Three strikes? No way, he’s a great guy when he isn’t high, give him another chance.
——
Ok he molested a child, keep him away from kids but don’t send him away for a long time. He reoffended? Well you were supposed to keep him away from kids. The police aren’t doing their jobs. What about his family? Where’s your humanity. He’s a victim too.
——
Forcing welfare recipients to work? They can’t find jobs. Making them take low paying jobs they don’t want? That’s practically slavery. What about their children? They have as much right to have their mothers at home as anybody else.
——
Equal pay for similar work. Just because women choose certain types of jobs doesn’t mean they should make less money. The market won’t bear forcing a wage structure? Too bad, the govt will take care of it. Compensate companies for paying women more? No, that’s corporate welfare!
——
They have a lot more money than I do. So what if their parents worked hard and scrimped and saved and had money to pass on to them. I deserve as much as they do. Can I help it if my parents didn’t have anything to leave me?
—–
And on and on and on….
—-
And what would your “jesus†character say about helping one another?
Comment by despiserepublicanvermin — October 13, 2007 @ 7:33
Jesus certainly advocated helping one another, every bit as much as He advocated avoiding sin and taking responsibility. It’s really interesting how libs are so quick with the name of Jesus when they are trying to excuse irresponsible behavior and yet recoil from it when morality and responsibility come in to play. You can’t have one without the other. What would that be, “cafeteria” atheists? ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 12:07 amTruth can be verified, remember? Not all beliefs can. ;)
Comment by upright left — October 13, 2007 @ 6:51 pm
That’s the funniest one of all. Truth can indeed be verified, but is never accepted by the right. wingnut Beliefs trump truth every time, no matter how many facts are presented. Look at the Iraq war; 27 reasons for invading, shot down and ground into dust one by one, yet the rightards morons still think it was the right thing to do, even though they themselves will never don the uniform. Conservatism is an illness, a mental disease, a lack of evolutionary progress. It is harmful to human progress; in fact, antithetical to human progress. Conservatives hate human progress, they hate freddom.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:07 ammarlow,
upright left has always been a coward and a fool.
Comment by Zooey — October 13, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
C’mon zooette, give a person time to respond. Sometimes real life is just way too much fun. I suppose I could have stated that I was leaving so you wouldn’t think I was avoiding you. But, then, when people do that, you slam them for that too, dontcha? ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 12:10 amConservatism is an illness, a mental disease, a lack of evolutionary progress. It is harmful to human progress; in fact, antithetical to human progress. Conservatives hate human progress, they hate freddom.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — October 14, 2007 @ 12:07 am
No, it’s just contrary to your view, so, in your opinion, not worthy of consideration. Fortunately, the world doesn’t revolve around your opinions. You equate support for the war with conservatism. That is not truth. I’m conservative and I oppose the war. See how that works? You need to think things through a little better, bud. ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 12:16 amWhat would that be, “cafeteria†atheists? ;)
Comment by upright left — October 14, 2007 @ 12:07 am
You think that’s any kind of an answer, a list of falsehoods and straw men? A list of willful lies and twisted, sociopathic bullshit?
One by one:
1. Abortions: condoms fail. pills fail. rape is a reality. incest is a reality. kids don’t get the proper sex education, they screw. abortions for all of the above, no questions asked. besides which, abortion in neither illegal nor wrong, except in your sick, twisted little sorld of control, control, control.
2. Legalize drugs: prevent gang warfare. prevent disease. provide treatment for minimizing drug use. take the drugs out of the hands of criminals, and drug use will shrink. the rest of that part of the screed is pure rightwing bullshit. every study done on the three-strikes rule says its foolish and expensive, and has nothing to do with drugs. you’re wrong again.
3. Welfare recipients want to work. Forcing them to work for slave wages is slavery, moron. leaving their kids unnattended is stupid and shortsighted. it’s also ultimately far more expensive to society and taxpayers. This is a major theme, by the way, throughout you foolsih strawman construction; all of your complaints are making your taxes go up, not down.
4. Equal pay for equal work: you have nothing here, just nothing. No argument, no justification. the market will certainly bear it, but the rightard macho closetted queers won’t accept it, it makes them feel inferior. again, no argument worth the time of day, just old, conservative crap. and where does the government compensate companies to pay women more? Just another of your lies.
5. Total straw man. Nobody is asking to have the same amount of money as anyone else, nobody. In fact, the opposite; my daddy should be exempt from taxes so that I can be rich without haveing to lift a finger. That’s welfare, bub, welfare for the rich, who don’t need it, and in fact suffer for it. Rich kids are lazy, drug-abusing, perverted burdens on society, worthless white trash. The proof is all over the news every day.
Jesus? When do liberals recoil from morality and responsibility? How about your leading christian Bush, whose morality consist of bombing innocent families, and whose responsibility consists of deserting in time of war? There is no personal responsibility among the conservatives, there is massive corporate and rich people’s welfare, and massive lack of responsibility; ignoring global climate change, ignoring the destruction of our legal system, ignoring illegal, immoral wars, ignoring their own children’s destructive behavior. Your arguments are chaff scattered tot he wind, not one of them will hold under inspection. They aren’t arguments, but thoughtless, parroted talking points that any thinking person sees through instantly. They are opinions, not facts. they are lies, not truth. and they are antiAmerican in most cases, and anti-human in the rest.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:26 amNo, it’s just contrary to your view, so, in your opinion, not worthy of consideration. Fortunately, the world doesn’t revolve around your opinions. You equate support for the war with conservatism. That is not truth. I’m conservative and I oppose the war. See how that works? You need to think things through a little better, bud. ;)
Comment by upright left — October 14, 2007 @ 12:16 am
No, it’s actually proveable. Conservatives have been strongly against every single social advance proposed for the past 200 years in America. Many still are. it’s not a “different point of view”, it’s a lack of civilization, it’s being UNEVOLVED. It’s far more than opinion, whether you like it or not. It’s sick,a nd it hurts people, many people, for no reason. slavery, child labor, women’ suffrage, equal pay, freedom of choice, conservatives fought against, and still complain about it.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:31 amOne by one:
1. Abortions: I’m not responsibile and I have the right to kill my child.
2. Legalize drugs: I get to use drugs and I’m not responsible for anything I do while using them or for paying to get myself off of them if I get addicted.
3. Welfare recipients want to work. So they aren’t qualified to do anything but work at McDonald’s because they quit school. They have the right to quit school and they aren’t responsibile for the consequences. Pay them a doctor’s salary to work at McDonald’s so you don’t damage their self esteem. They aren’t responsible, they were just exercising their rights.
4. “Equal pay for equal work: you have nothing here, just nothing. No argument, no justification. the market will certainly bear it, but the rightard macho closetted queers won’t accept it, it makes them feel inferior. again, no argument worth the time of day, just old, conservative crap. and where does the government compensate companies to pay women more? Just another of your lies.”
Queers? Where did that come from. Got a little problem with the male ego, bud? ;)
5. “Total straw man. Nobody is asking to have the same amount of money as anyone else, nobody.”
Nobody? Missed all the posts by fellow libby loons whining about those who inherited their money? There have also been one or two, admittedly not recent, advocating that no one should be able to inherit their parents wealth.
——-
“Jesus? When do liberals recoil from morality and responsibility?”
What I said was that they use the name of Jesus to get sympathy for those seeking to avoid personal responsibility but recoil from the name of Jesus when His emphasis on morality and responsibility are mentioned along with his compassion. That happens almost daily, my looney friend. ;)
——
“How about your leading christian Bush, whose morality consist of bombing innocent families, and whose responsibility consists of deserting in time of war?”
Who considers Bush a leading Christian? I’m unaware of anyone.
—-
“There is no personal responsibility among the conservatives,”
Of course there is.
——
“…there is massive corporate and rich people’s welfare, and massive lack of responsibility; ignoring global climate change, ignoring the destruction of our legal system, ignoring illegal, immoral wars, ignoring their own children’s destructive behavior.”
Perhaps you haven’t noticed that the majority of conservative voters in the last few years aren’t wealthy people. They are middle class people reacting to the lack of personal responsibility advocated by the far left.
“Your arguments are chaff scattered tot he wind, not one of them will hold under inspection. They aren’t arguments, but thoughtless, parroted talking points that any thinking person sees through instantly. They are opinions, not facts. they are lies, not truth. and they are antiAmerican in most cases, and anti-human in the rest.”
Comment by Lefty Patriot — October 14, 2007 @ 12:26 am
My arguments point out your desire for total lack of personal responsibilty. It’s libs who never think anything is their fault. I suppose that’s necessary in order to live with yourselves. ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 1:01 amNo, it’s actually proveable. Conservatives have been strongly against every single social advance proposed for the past 200 years in America. Many still are. it’s not a “different point of viewâ€, it’s a lack of civilization, it’s being UNEVOLVED. It’s far more than opinion, whether you like it or not. It’s sick,a nd it hurts people, many people, for no reason. slavery, child labor, women’ suffrage, equal pay, freedom of choice, conservatives fought against, and still complain about it.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — October 14, 2007 @ 12:31 am
And just who is helped by returning addicts to the street repeatedly? And child molesters? Libs have frequently protested long sentences for them. Is it evolved to let them out to molest again? Do their victims not count because they aren’t trying to get the govt to give them something? Paying people according to the work that they do. That’s unevolved? Most folks consider that fair. You work harder, go to school longer, take risks, you are compensated better than someone who who doesn’t work as hard or study as long. Killing unborn children is really evolved. Your a prince of a fellow, eh, bud? ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 1:11 amStill haven’t seen any PROOF, upright loonie.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:28 amStill haven’t seen any PROOF, upright loonie.
Comment by Zooey — October 14, 2007 @ 1:28 am
Scroll back, zooette, you missed it. Unless, of course, you just choose to ignore it. Not unexpected from one seeking to remove personal responsibility. If I don’t acknowledge it, I’m not responsible for it, eh? ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 1:47 am1) Graeme has a scholarship to a private school. The school costs $15K a year, but the family only pays $500 a year.
2) His sister Gemma attends another private school to help her with the brain injuries that occurred due to her accident. The school costs $23,000 a year, but the state pays the entire cost.
3) They bought their “lavish house†sixteen years ago for $55,000 at a time when the neighborhood was less than safe.
4) Last year, the Frosts made $45,000 combined. Over the past few years they have made no more than $50,000 combined.
5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.
What wingers are afraid of is the realization by HARD-WORKING, RESPONSIBLE FAMILIES that their interests are not served by the right-wing doggerel they’ve been handed for more than two decades. It’s OVER. The Frost’s did nothing wrong, and their son is sure as hell going to know who to vote for when he turns eighteen, along with millions of others. These families know who they are and they know they’d be doing the same thing given the circumstances. Repugs, when you find yourselves beating up a kid and his loving family who did everything they could to save him after giving him the best growing environment they could afford, you gotta know you’ve gone around the bend.
October 14th, 2007 at 2:56 am5) The state of Maryland has found them eligible to participate in the CHIP program.
Comment by marlow — October 14, 2007 @ 2:56 am
And that precludes any further discussion ever of what the eligibility requirements are or should be for the program? ;)
October 14th, 2007 at 3:06 amupright left
You talk about being moral, but lets look at your examples.
1: The pregnant single mother, you refuse to make any plans for what to with the child (As per example 3) your political alignment opposes sex education in schools, and once the child is born, you make it impossible for the mother to find a solution. She works, to your mind she is a villian because she isn’t spending enough time with her kid, she doesn’t work, to your mind she is a villian because she is a burden on the state.
This isn’t morality on the rightwing’s part, it is simply another example of the rightwing’s values being all about condemning people rather then actually solving anything.
2: I could repeat the whole list of arguments in favour of legalising dope, but then lets just cut to the chase on your immorality shall we? You say drug abuse is wrong, any doctor, or for that matter person who smokes, can tell you how hard it is to overcome an addiction, but rather then have the community (As represented by the state) offering help and therefore reducing the problem of addiction, you would rather keep the addicts as being addicts and condemn them for it. You aren’t demonstrating moral superiority here, you are just demonstrating that you like having people you can condemn.
3: MacDonalds is the worst thing America ever did to the culinary world, it demonstrated that terrible, bland tasteless food can be successful with enough advertising. That said, in No 3 you’ve demonstrated that you are intellectually dishonest by building a straw man, because the leftwing doesn’t make that argument (The leftwing argues that minimum wage should be high enough to live off of and fund ones ability to graduate to a better job, and pardon me if I don’t think that means being as wealthy as a doctor.) Truth has no value to you obviously.
4: What I said was that they use the name of Jesus to get sympathy for those seeking to avoid personal responsibility but recoil from the name of Jesus when His emphasis on morality and responsibility are mentioned along with his compassion. That happens almost daily, my looney friend. ;
Is simply pure projection. Nothing more nothing less. Oh, and Upright, religion doesn’t count as morality – its just what you think the universe is like.
Nobody? Missed all the posts by fellow libby loons whining about those who inherited their money? There have also been one or two, admittedly not recent, advocating that no one should be able to inherit their parents wealth.
Yeah actually nobody. What you just pointed out was liberals calling for people born rich, to have to make their own fortunes – not for an equal pay scale. So, so far, you have shown two cases of actual dishonesty, and a blatant attempt at changing the meaning of someone’s stance. Not very much in the way of values so far.
Oh, and while we are on it: Biggest contributors to America on a federal tax dollar basis? The blue states. The biggest drain on America on a federal tax dollar basis? The red states. Until you guys start contributing to America, maybe you should keep your yaps shut about who has a sense of personal responsibility.
October 14th, 2007 at 4:29 amToday, Sunday Oct. 14th, The Louisville Courier-Journal — McConnell’s home paper — printed Paul Krugman’s excellent column about the “Sliming of Graeme Frost.” About time. The C-J also printed a hard-hitting letter from a reader asking why McConnell has not been forced to provide answers about the email from his office, written by Don Stewart, that propagated the GOP / Media smear of the Frosts with a set of talking points.
On ABC’s This Week today, McConnell was asked about S-CHIP and Bush’s veto, but NO QUESTIONS about his role in smearing the Frost family. How pathetic is that?
Here’s the questions that George Stepanopolos should have asked:
1. Did McConnell know about the email from his office to GOP cronies on Monday 10/8?
2. If yes, will he be forced to step down as Minority Leader?
3. If no, has Don Stewart been fired? What will McConnell do to about this scandal?
4. Is McConnell’s plan to blame the Democrats and “leftists” for the lack of health care for kids? Sounds like this will be Mitch’s plan.
So pitiful.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:20 amUPDATE
I can no longer access Redstate.com.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:51 amUpright Moron, you’ve been flinging poo for some time now on this site. The very fact that you’re able to leave your spider hole at Redstate or LGF, come to this “lib” site and spout your dogma for hours on end WITHOUT being shutout on your IP address says more about the liberal ethic that you slander than you can yourself. You seem to have a stick up your ass about “personal responsibility”. With a straight face, you actually advance the opinion, ridiculous on its face, that respect for personal responsibility can actually be used to divide Americans along political lines. Whatever, dude. My father-in-law used to drive around with a bumper sticker that said “Restore integrity, vote Republican”; he had to take it off years ago because everywhere he went, in conservative San Diego even, people were pointing at him and laughing as they drove by. With your sweeping, arrogant judgment of more than half the nation, you’re even more laughable than he was.The time when wingers could spout moral superiority ended a long time ago, pal [ ;) ]. Far more Americans see themselves possibly in the position of the Frosts, needing help in desperate circumstances, and they don’t need the caterwauling of crazy old grandpa in the attic about “personal responsibility” when they’re facing a potential tragedy. People agreeing to help other people is not ” lack of personal responsibility”, it’s generosity, community, humanity, concepts that disappeared from the hard-right moral landscape decades ago, so that you can’t even recognize them today. That’s fine, most voters in this country still can, so you keep on with your panty-twisting. Youv’e got yourself a winning issue there, Upright.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:57 amFor years, Limbaugh railed on that hard jail time busting rocks in the quarry was the appropriate cure for drug abusers and addicts. Until, of course, he was caught illegally doctor-shopping and downing enough narcotics to put an entire platoon into a coma (you have to work long and hard to generate that kind of a tolerance). Yet when his turn came to walk the walk, suddenly breaking the law to feed an addiction to narcotics was a symptom of an ILLNESS, best treated medically in rehab than in state or federal prison. Rush’s lawyers worked triple overtime to keep him away from the societal retribution he advocated for everyone else. Funny, I never thought Rush was a “lib” who stood for the “abandonment of personal responsibility”. Who took “personal responsibility” for the YEARS that rep. Foley was allowed to work his homosexual pedophilia on the congressional pages? Foley himself? No, he squealed that alcohol was the problem and ran off to rehab. Hastert? No, he lied, claiming he knew nothing despite all the evidence demonstrating the Republican leadership was aware of Foley’s behavior and covered it up rather than do something about it. Did Larry Craig take responsibility for his pathetic closet behavior in the airport bathroom? No, “I wuz framed!”,”I’m not gay!” he yelled once knowledge of the affair stopped being a secret. Yeah, right. I LOVE to play tappy-toes with complete strangers when I’m in the public toilets.
Who in the Republican leadership took responsibility for the utter failure to protect the nation on 9-11? Bush? Cheney? Rummy? Condi? CIA? FBI? NSA? None of them. Richard Clarke did, even though his urgent warnings to the Bush cabinet went ignored, even though he did his job. But he was a Clinton holdover, so was capable still of demonstrating a sense of “personal responsibility”.
Who among Republicans, who conceived, planned and carried out the disaster of Iraq has taken personal responsibility for the fact that a million people have died in a country that never harmed us, never had WMD, nuclear programs, ties to al Qaeda or anything to even begin to justify the carnage that continues to take place there?
Did Ronald Reagan take responsibility for Iran-Contra? He claimed not to have known. Did George H.W.? “I wuz out of the loop” says the ex-director of the CIA. It goes on and on and on and on, Upright. Like every other winger who comes on here, you project your pathology. The story of the modern republican machine is the story of hits and assassinations followed by denials of responsibility and accusations of culpability of others. Your stupid wailing at the evils of “libs” fools NO ONE HERE AT ALL. But go ahead and thrash on an American family doing everything they can to get by in the face of an administration that could care less about what happens to them, whine about how lazy and irresponsible they are to have reached out when the life of their son was on the line, and see how much sympathy you generate. You’re a great guy, Upright, and a credit to your party.
And that precludes any further discussion ever of what the eligibility requirements are or should be for the program? ;)
Comment by upright left — October 14, 2007 @ 3:06 am
Enlighten us. What’s the first requirement you’d change…that the parents must work a full-time job (or 2 part time jobs each)?
October 14th, 2007 at 12:25 pmIf I don’t acknowledge it, I’m not responsible for it, eh? ;)
Comment by upright left — October 14, 2007 @ 1:47 am
Sounds like your Mission Statement, slack jaw.
I scrolled through comments last night, dingleberry. All I saw was you saying a lot of shit, and nothing backing it up.
Like I said — NO PROOF.
Dismissed.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:45 pmI can no longer access Redstate.com.
Comment by Briseadh na Faire — October 14, 2007 @ 11:51 am
Fantastic! :-)
October 14th, 2007 at 1:46 pmThese Redstate people are diabolical.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:02 pmI can’t imagine anyone saying the things I’ve seen attributed to them
(and never denied). I’d pray for them, but somehow I think they need more than prayers.
Stake Out at McConnell’s house tonight , 10/14, with signs that said: “KY Senator Scrooge Smears Sick 12-year old” “Mitch Smears Graeme Frost” “Mitch: Staggering Incompetence” “McConnell is Kentucky’s Shame”
When McConnell’s big SUV pulled up to his garage and he got out, we yelled, “Mitch — You Have Blood on Your Hands.”
It felt great to yell at the corrupt spineless warmonger.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:17 pmComment by Bruce Gorton — October 14, 2007 @ 4:29 am
1. I don’t oppose sex ed in schools. But I do want it to acknowledge to the students that not everyone thinks it’s ok to have sex with anyone who will have them and that being sexually active comes with consequences. I want all teen mothers to have childcare because they need to be in school or working. It doesn’t benefit the mother, the child or society for them to sit at home uneducated with no job skills and no knowledge of how to raise a child. I don’t, however, think we need to make it easy on them. They made a poor choice and they need to accept the consequences so they won’t continue to be irresponsible.
2. Keep the addicts addicted? Who wanted the drugs prohibited in the first place? I’d say your stance is more conducive to fostering addiction than mine. At least some people don’t do drugs because of the illegality. I don’t want to provide the drugs, provide the treatment for nothing and give leniency when they fail to take advantage of the treatment. At what point would you say they need to take responsibility? How many people do addicts get to hurt before it’s ok to send them away for a long time?
3. McDonald’s exists because there is a market for it. People make choices and their future unfolds accordingly. When people chose to quit school, they know the kinds of jobs that are available to those with little education. When people have children at a young age, they know those children will require care, which takes money. When people don’t suffer the consequences, they continue to make bad choices.
4. My comment regarding the use of Jesus by libs can hardly be called projection. I said they use Him when it suits them, but reject the attempt to talk about Him when His emphasis on avoiding sin and taking responsibility are mentioned. Since I never reject Him, no projection. That term is so over used and misused by libs on this site, it hadly has meaning anymore.
——
“Yeah actually nobody. What you just pointed out was liberals calling for people born rich, to have to make their own fortunes – not for an equal pay scale. So, so far, you have shown two cases of actual dishonesty, and a blatant attempt at changing the meaning of someone’s stance. Not very much in the way of values so far.”
Libs call for both taking money from those who should inherit it and for an equal pay for unequal work scale. So it’s you who is being dishonest and you blatantly refuse to admit that most of the lib views mentioned above are based upon removing personal responsibility. You don’t want anyone to suffer the consequences for their actions.
——
Oh, and while we are on it: Biggest contributors to America on a federal tax dollar basis? The blue states. The biggest drain on America on a federal tax dollar basis? The red states. Until you guys start contributing to America, maybe you should keep your yaps shut about who has a sense of personal responsibility.
Comment by Bruce Gorton — October 14, 2007 @ 4:29 am
I’m sure you’ll post the verification of these statements. And while we are on it, who was it that pushed so many people out of the Dem party back in the Reagan years? Lefties. I, and the majority of my family, friends and colleagues have grudgingly voted Republican in the last several elections because of libs pushing their radical agenda and insisting on removing morality from all the decisions that govern our daily lives. So, if you insist on removing personal responsibility, at least stop trying to weasel out of the admission and have the courage of your convictions. ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 12:20 amI scrolled through comments last night, dingleberry. All I saw was you saying a lot of shit, and nothing backing it up.
Like I said — NO PROOF.
Dismissed.
Comment by Zooey — October 14, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
The proof is in your views. Either you agree with the lib views I mentioned or you don’t. If you do, then you advocate removing personal responsibility and you also need to have the courage of your convictions. ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 12:24 am…because of libs pushing their radical agenda and insisting on removing morality from all the decisions that govern our daily lives. So, if you insist on removing personal responsibility, at least stop trying to weasel out of the admission and have the courage of your convictions. ;)
Comment by upright left — October 15, 2007 @ 12:20 am
Details?
October 15th, 2007 at 1:05 amOh, and for the record as concerns my Senators from TN on this issue, they have pretty much told Bush where he can put his veto of the SCHIP bill.
October 15th, 2007 at 1:08 am“The very fact that you’re able to leave your spider hole at Redstate or LGF, come to this “lib†site and spout your dogma for hours on end WITHOUT being shutout on your IP address says more about the liberal ethic that you slander than you can yourself.”
I’ve seen the Redstate site a few times. Seems ultra righties are as hateful as ultra lefties. I don’t know what LGF is, so haven’t seen that. You obviously don’t like folks pointing out the hypocrisy of libs. I’m just trying to keep libs honest. ;)
——
“My father-in-law used to drive around with a bumper sticker that said “Restore integrity, vote Republicanâ€
The problem with that would be the suggestion that politicians of any party represent integrity. Those that do are in the minority of any party. Didn’t you learn anything from “Impeachment is off the table.” “We’ll fix FISA later.” and so on. Republicans have been in the majority of scandals lately because they have been the majority in Washington. Have you completely forgotten every scandal that occurred before GW? There have been quite few in the past.
——
“The time when wingers could spout moral superiority ended a long time ago, pal [ ;) ].”
Fortunately, I don’t claim moral superiority. I just advocate folks accepting responsibility for their own actions.
——
“People agreeing to help other people is not †lack of personal responsibilityâ€, it’s generosity, community, humanity, concepts that disappeared from the hard-right moral landscape decades ago, so that you can’t even recognize them today.”
Of course people helping others isn’t lack of personal responsibility. People getting into the postion of needing help because they chose not to prepare for what they could is the lack of responsibility. And I never said the Frosts should not have had SCHIP coverage, so try getting the facts before you start spouting off about things. ;)
I am also not the “hard right,” so we’ll move on from that statement as well.
——
“For years, Limbaugh railed on that hard jail time busting rocks in the quarry was the appropriate cure for drug abusers and addicts. Until, of course, he was caught illegally doctor-shopping and downing enough narcotics to put an entire platoon into a coma (you have to work long and hard to generate that kind of a tolerance). Yet when his turn came to walk the walk, suddenly breaking the law to feed an addiction to narcotics was a symptom of an ILLNESS, best treated medically in rehab than in state or federal prison. Rush’s lawyers worked triple overtime to keep him away from the societal retribution he advocated for everyone else. Funny, I never thought Rush was a “lib†who stood for the “abandonment of personal responsibilityâ€.
Was Limbaugh convicted more than once? Then he needs to go to jail. Did he hurt anyone? Rob anyone? Then he should have gone to jail the first time. Did he go to govt sponsored rehab? If he did, he should repay some of the costs or work it off if he can’t afford it just like anyone else should. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don’t advocate different treatment for the wealthy, not being “hard right.”
——
“Who took “personal responsibility†for the YEARS that rep. Foley was allowed to work his homosexual pedophilia on the congressional pages? Foley himself? No, he squealed that alcohol was the problem and ran off to rehab. Hastert? No, he lied, claiming he knew nothing despite all the evidence demonstrating the Republican leadership was aware of Foley’s behavior and covered it up rather than do something about it. Did Larry Craig take responsibility for his pathetic closet behavior in the airport bathroom? No, “I wuz framed!â€,â€I’m not gay!†he yelled once knowledge of the affair stopped being a secret. Yeah, right. I LOVE to play tappy-toes with complete strangers when I’m in the public toilets.”
Refer to my previous statements about politicians and scandals. They should ALL be punished and removed from office, Republican and Democrat alike.
——
“Who in the Republican leadership took responsibility for the utter failure to protect the nation on 9-11? Bush? Cheney? Rummy? Condi? CIA? FBI? NSA? None of them. Richard Clarke did, even though his urgent warnings to the Bush cabinet went ignored, even though he did his job. But he was a Clinton holdover, so was capable still of demonstrating a sense of “personal responsibilityâ€.
I haven’t heard any of them disclaim responsibility for their inaction. The result of their inaction was far greater than a couple not using protection and producing an unwanted child that they can’t afford to care for, or an addict stealing to feed his habit, or a family not maintaing health insurance and allowing the cost to fall to tax payers. But that doesn’t make it ok to be irresponsible.
——
“Who among Republicans, who conceived, planned and carried out the disaster of Iraq has taken personal responsibility for the fact that a million people have died in a country that never harmed us, never had WMD, nuclear programs, ties to al Qaeda or anything to even begin to justify the carnage that continues to take place there?
Did Ronald Reagan take responsibility for Iran-Contra? He claimed not to have known. Did George H.W.? “I wuz out of the loop†says the ex-director of the CIA. It goes on and on and on and on, Upright.”
A million people? Again, we’ll move on from that.
——
“Like every other winger who comes on here, you project your pathology.”
Projection again? It’s over used and meaningless. I’m not failing to take responsibility for any of my actions, so I can’t be “projecting.”
——
The story of the modern republican machine is the story of hits and assassinations followed by denials of responsibility and accusations of culpability of others. Your stupid wailing at the evils of “libs†fools NO ONE HERE AT ALL. But go ahead and thrash on an American family doing everything they can to get by in the face of an administration that could care less about what happens to them, whine about how lazy and irresponsible they are to have reached out when the life of their son was on the line, and see how much sympathy you generate. You’re a great guy, Upright, and a credit to your party.
Comment by marlow — October 14, 2007 @ 11:57 am
I didn’t say the Frosts should not have had coverage, I didn’t say they were lazy or irresponsible, and I didn’t say they shouldn’t have sought care for their injured children. So nevermind. The only thing I said about the Frosts was to point out to a “lib” that the issue that some people were talking about was the fact that they lived in a house POSSIBLY worth $400,000. I didn’t say it is worth that, I didn’t say they didn’t have a vaild reason for not selling it and buying something a little less expensive if their family is “struggling” as someone said. I just pointed out that that is a question that people have. So you wasted all that time and space railing about something that I didn’t even say. It’s really not that difficult to make sure you understand what has been said before you react. ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 1:12 am“I’ve seen the Redstate site a few times. Seems ultra righties are as hateful as ultra lefties. I don’t know what LGF is, so haven’t seen that. You obviously don’t like folks pointing out the hypocrisy of libs. I’m just trying to keep libs honest. ;)”
—Yeah right, wingnut, like I said, you fool NO ONE here. Stop pretending to be the reasonable man in the middle. It just embarrasses us all.
“Fortunately, I don’t claim moral superiority. I just advocate folks accepting responsibility for their own actions.”— Again, yeah right.Of course you claim moral superiority; you’re judging people you’ve never met and arrogating to yourself the right to find them wanting. Have you walked a mile in their shoes? Lay open the truth of your life for the world to see and judge before you throw rocks at hard working families for their supposed irresponsibility. Anyone can take potshots at others from the bushes and tear people down without risk; you look like a master to me.
“You obviously don’t like folks pointing out the hypocrisy of libs. I’m just trying to keep libs honest. ;)”— Once again your false objectivity is simply an embarrassment. The “libs” you rail about as morally wanting are not the ones who have brought the planet to the brink of destruction; go after the real jackals if you’re so concerned about the motes in other people’s eyes.
“Was Limbaugh convicted more than once? Then he needs to go to jail. Did he hurt anyone? Rob anyone? Then he should have gone to jail the first time. Did he go to govt sponsored rehab? If he did, he should repay some of the costs or work it off if he can’t afford it just like anyone else should. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I don’t advocate different treatment for the wealthy, not being “hard right.—— You didn’t answer the question and you sure as hell didn’t burst any bubbles. Rush Limbaugh defined personal responsibility as hard jail time in matters of drug abuse and the crimes that stem from such. It’s easy for you now to sit back and go all mushmouth about how he should have done this or that, but the fact is that somehow the “personal responsibility” of this right wing darling did not include the jail time he advocated for others.
“Refer to my previous statements about politicians and scandals. They should ALL be punished and removed from office, Republican and Democrat alike.”— You have ZERO credibility here, upright. NO ONE is fooled by your faux objectivity. We’ve all seen this kind of bullsh*t before.
“I haven’t heard any of them disclaim responsibility for their inaction.”—You have my award for the wormiest rebuttal of the month, upright. In fact this administration has again and again done EXACTLY THAT, through every scandal and disaster they visited on this nation, or have you forgotten the spectacle of Condi (and this is just one small example) stating with a straight face that no one could have imagined terrorists flying airplanes into buildings when only months before Bush had to be moved during the economic summit in Italy because of JUST THAT THREAT?
“A million people? Again, we’ll move on from that.”—No, we won’t. It comes from the best, most rigorous scientific assessment of casualties in Iraq. Look it up.
“Projection again? It’s over used and meaningless. I’m not failing to take responsibility for any of my actions, so I can’t be “projecting.â€
—Like hell you’re not. You’re pretending to occupy some reasonable middle ground, slandering your hated “libs” with the rank moral failings of the right-wing scumbags you pretend not to favor. Like I said, you are fooling NO ONE.
I didn’t say the Frosts should not have had coverage, I didn’t say they were lazy or irresponsible, and I didn’t say they shouldn’t have sought care for their injured children. So never mind. The only thing I said about the Frosts was to point out to a “lib†that the issue that some people were talking about was the fact that they lived in a house POSSIBLY worth $400,000. I didn’t say it is worth that, I didn’t say they didn’t have a vaild reason for not selling it and buying something a little less expensive if their family is “struggling†as someone said. I just pointed out that that is a question that people have. So you wasted all that time and space railing about something that I didn’t even say. It’s really not that difficult to make sure you understand what has been said before you react. ;)—No, upright, it’s not going to work. You came on this site and started yelling about how the hated libs advocate for the “abandonment of personal responsibility”, the obvious inference being that the Frost’s situation was symptomatic of this supposed moral turpitude as were the positions of those advocating for them. You weren’t “pointing out a question”. You were assassinating the character of a majority of the American people who would have done exactly the same thing would they have found themselves in the same situation. Which is why I invited you to continue doing so. Do you want to have a little credibility with me? Take your rant on “personal responsibility” over to the other side, lay it out on their threads against their leaders and defend it for a couple of days like you have here. Then direct me to the thread. Like I said, it’s not the libs who set the killing machine in motion in our world, so your choice to come over here and rant and rave kind of leaves your pants flapping around your ankles as far your objectivity is concerned. And about the $400,000 house? So what? The condo my wife and I bought in ‘99 has more than tripled in value. SO HAS EVERY OTHER HOME IN OUR CITY, SO THE GAIN IN VALUE IS MEANINGLESS, UNLESS OF COURSE I WANT TO PULL UP STAKES, TAKE THE CHILDREN OUT OF THE SCHOOLS THEY WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET INTO, THROW THE FAMILY INTO ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY, AND MOVE SOMEWHERE WHERE THE CARE WE NEEDED (assuming that Graeme was our child) MIGHT NOT BE AVAILABLE. Does that sound like a good plan to you? I don’t know where you live upright, but it doesn’t sound like the real world to me. ;) ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 3:09 am… i thought only the anti-american LIBERAL blogs were guilty of spewing and supporting hateful rants against americans… oh, that’s right, its “free speech” when the hateful repigs and their bloviating blogs spew hate… silly me.
October 15th, 2007 at 10:42 am‘Yeah right, wingnut, like I said, you fool NO ONE here. Stop pretending to be the reasonable man in the middle. It just embarrasses us all.’
Heh, heh, heh, pretending to sound reasonable? Reread your statement to see how foolish that sounds. It really ticks you off that not everyone holds extreme views, eh bud? Makes it harder to defend your own extreme views.
——
I judge no one. If I were to become addicted to drugs, I would hope society would restrict my ability to hurt people until I could get it under control. I don’t happen to believe I have a right to hurt others because I have a problem in my life. Show me one time I’ve claimed perfection or that I’m better than anyone. You won’t find it, bud.
——
“Once again your false objectivity is simply an embarrassment. The “libs†you rail about as morally wanting…”
All I ask is that people accept the consequences for their actions and take responsibility for themselves. Yep, you’re right, that does sound quite reasonable. ;)
——
It’s easy for you now to sit back and go all mushmouth about how he should have done this or that, but the fact is that somehow the “personal responsibility†of this right wing darling did not include the jail time he advocated for others.
I’m saying the same thing now that I would have said then. You get one shot. You have a problem with drugs, deal with. If you don’t, next time you go to jail. If you can’t deal with the situation, we’ll remove your ability to hurt or negatively influence others. Simple enough. As far as the ‘”right wing darling” business, you’d have to ask someone who cares about Limbaugh. He’s too hateful for me to listen to him.
—–
“Refer to my previous statements about politicians and scandals. They should ALL be punished and removed from office, Republican and Democrat alike.â€â€” You have ZERO credibility here, upright. NO ONE is fooled by your faux objectivity. We’ve all seen this kind of bullsh*t before.
You’ve been spending too much time with extreme libs, bud, as evidenced by the fact that you refuse to believe that anyone can actually be reasonable or objective. There is a whole country full of people that don’t hold the same views as either you or Rush Limbaugh. There are actually people who want help for those who are truly unable to provide for themselves or who get themselves into a bad situation, but don’t want the complete removal of personal responsibility for everyone in the country. Wake up, bud, that includes the majority of the people in this country.
——
A million people? Again, we’ll move on from that.â€â€””No, we won’t. It comes from the best, most rigorous scientific assessment of casualties in Iraq. Look it up.”
The best, most rigorous scientific assessment those with an agenda dared to create. That’s a ridiculous assessment. Think for yourself, bud.
——
“In fact this administration has again and again done EXACTLY THAT, through every scandal and disaster they visited on this nation, or have you forgotten the spectacle of Condi (and this is just one small example) stating with a straight face that no one could have imagined terrorists flying airplanes into buildings when only months before Bush had to be moved during the economic summit in Italy because of JUST THAT THREAT?”
Exactly how do the scandals prove that anyone disclaimed responsibility for 9/11? Keep it together, bud. As for believing the threat, libs on this site now discount any suggestion that we need to worry about attacks in the U.S. You know how you all acuse people of cowering in fear at the suggestion that the govt should be able to listen to phone calls of suspected terrorists. And that’s after 9/11. People who downplay the threat to us after 9/11 hardly have the right to slam those who did it before such an attack ever occurred. (Hypocrisy)
——
“Like hell you’re not. You’re pretending to occupy some reasonable middle ground, slandering your hated “libs†with the rank moral failings of the right-wing scumbags you pretend not to favor. Like I said, you are fooling NO ONE”
Like I said, I’m not pretending. Why does it make you so mad that someone can be a moderate? Why do you think everyone has to be extreme right or left. Is it because there is less to fight about when people are reasonable and you can’t stand that? ;)
——
“You weren’t “pointing out a questionâ€. You were assassinating the character of a majority of the American people who would have done exactly the same thing would they have found themselves in the same situation.”
Go back and read all my comments, genuis, and then come back and tell me what I’m taking about. Had you read my comments from the beginning, you would have seen that I stated repeatedly, in response to another poster, that many people questioned whether the Frosts should have been using SCHIP for regular medical care, not the catastrophic care needed after the accident. I know, I know, I’m being reasonable again and you hate it, but that’s how most people are. I also realize how hard you are trying to make this be about the catastrophic care. If I opposed that, or if I would just come out and say the Frosts didn’t deserve to have SCHIP, it would make many of your arguments valid. Sorry, bud, I don’t believe that they shouldn’t have had the care, so I can’t help you out there. As for the issue of the house, I assume you would say that any wealthy family who suddenly lost all their money to bad investments or whatever would be eligible for SCHIP despite the fact that they own several homes, expensive cars, boats, jewelry etc. Since you refuse to consider the issue of whether one family has too many resources to be eligible, you have to apply that to all. ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 11:56 amupright left
Libs call for both taking money from those who should inherit it and for an equal pay for unequal work scale. So it’s you who is being dishonest and you blatantly refuse to admit that most of the lib views mentioned above are based upon removing personal responsibility. You don’t want anyone to suffer the consequences for their actions.
Yeah, you know, because being related to someone rich who just pegged is really hard work innit?
Oh, and here’s a link to back my prior claim:
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/2004/11/red_states_feed.html
October 15th, 2007 at 3:33 pmOh, and upright left? Pointing out that you are talking out of your backside and that your ideology is nothing short of simply condemning those less fortunate then yourself isn’t dishonest it is perfectly honest.
You talk a good game about personal responsibility when are you guys on the right going to take some?
October 15th, 2007 at 3:37 pmYeah, you know, because being related to someone rich who just pegged is really hard work innit?
Oh, and here’s a link to back my prior claim:
Comment by Bruce Gorton — October 15, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
Now Bruce, you know that my post said MOST of the lib views mentioned involved removing personal responsibility, since you did paste it. I didn’t say inheriting money is hard work, now did I? What I said was, the people who earned the money have the right to leave it to their families if they want to since they did earn it and it was already taxed and rather heavily if they are wealthy. The libs want to take that money from the rightful heirs and use it to allow others to avoid personal responsibility. See, you knew it was in there all along, didn’t ya?
That’s an interesting report. I only had a minute to look at it. I’m sure you know you have to examine a thing like that closely to determine whether it’s used to prove something that it really doesn’t. I’ll look forward to further study of it this evening. Right off hand, I noticed that D.C. is first on the list, hardly a bastion of conservatism. So its use in proving that conservatives areas are a “drain” is doubtful already. I also noticed that Alaska and West Virginia are on the list, two states with senators who battle for the title of Pork King. So perhaps the study shows that states who have representatives who are willing to put self interest ahead of that of the country get the most money. And obviously, both major parties have such senators.
——
I take full responsibility for myself and my family, and then some. ;)
October 15th, 2007 at 4:17 pmFor a more current example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ElectoralCollege2004-Large.PNG
Electoral map from 2004, just so you know who I am talking about when I say red state, blue state (Though they invert the colours.)
Top ten states feeding at the federal trough, I’ve italicised the red states:
1: New Mexico
2: Mississippi
3: Alaska
4: Louisiana (I didn’t know they voted Bush in 2004. Oops)
5: West Virginia
6: North Dakota
7: Alabama
8: South Dakota
9: Kentucky
10: Virginia
All ten are Republican. All ten of them.
Now for all of the states that are actually paying more in federal funds then they are getting back (Same rule):
17: Florida
16: Texas
15: Oregon
14: Michigan
13: Washington (Who’da thunkit?)
12: Wisconsin
11: Massachusetts
10: Colorado
9: New York
8: California
7: Delaware
6: Illinois
5: Minnesota
4: New Hampshire
3: Connecticut
2: Nevada
1: New Jersey
A grand total of 5 red states on that list of seventeen. 5. Red. States.
For figures check: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22659.html
October 15th, 2007 at 4:25 pmNow lets check that list to congressional seats shall we?
http://electionresources.org/images/maps/us/house/2006.gif (No names which is annoying, but still usable.)
1: New Mexico R
2: Mississippi R
3: Alaska R
4: Louisiana R (I didn’t know they voted Republican, again?)
5: West Virginia B
6: North Dakota B
7: Alabama R
8: South Dakota B
9: Kentucky R
10: Virginia R
So, 7 out of 10 judging on the 2006 elections (Prior post was judged on the presidential elections. IE 2004) Still pretty damning for the rightwing here.
The Democrats took Colorado in 2006, Illinois was an error on my part in the first place (Democrat in 2004, and 2006, sorry Illinois.)
So, rather then looking better, the republicans went from having 4 states contributing to 3 states contribting.
Shows whose really responsible in the states.
October 15th, 2007 at 4:43 pmWell, I guess you’re a better man than I, upright.Not all of us have the highly developed sense of personal responsibility that allows us to fake a centrist position and use that fake objectivity to attack a child, his hard-working family and all the Americans who would sympathize with their plight. Like I said, you’re a great guy, upright. Reap what you sow, mushmouth.
October 15th, 2007 at 10:09 pmComment by Bruce Gorton — October 15, 2007 @ 4:25 pm
I finally had time to check out the link you posted. As I said, that’s interesting information. In addition to my previous comments, I noticed that Montana, North and South Dakota were in the top ten. They are among the lowest in population, so could easliy draw more federal dollars than they send with one or two projects, keeping in mind that the information doesn’t give any actual figures as to how much more any state pays than it receives. Mississippi and Louisiana were also in the top 10, that’s a given. Then I became curious as to more current figures and discovered that the Tax Foundation also gives some insight into the disparity. From thier site:
“High-income states cannot hope to receive back from the federal government more than they send in federal taxes because of the progressive nature of the federal income tax. Since the tax structure is unlikely to change, and federal spending is largely on auto-pilot, donor states are almost certain to keep sending more to Washington than they get in return.”
Some states’ high ratios have a clear spending-related cause. The large number of retirees collecting Social Security in Florida increases the flow of federal funds. An even bigger difference is created by the disproportionately large federal grants funneled to Alaska and the District of Columbia. Virginia and Maryland benefit greatly from their proximity to the capital in salaried federal employment. Alaska, Hawaii and New Mexico also receive disproportionately large sums in this category.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22659.html
So it appears that there is little relationship between how a state voted and the money they receive. Except, of course, when a state has a representative who thinks all pork is bad except that which benefits his state. And we all know those types exist in both parties and have more to do with the character of the rep than the people who voted for him. You won’t see me defend those folks. There is also the obvious fact that, since most states went to Bush in the election anyway, chances were good that states that received the most money would be in that majority. There is really no relation between this data and personal responsibility.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:30 amWell, I guess you’re a better man than I, upright.Not all of us have the highly developed sense of personal responsibility that allows us to fake a centrist position and use that fake objectivity to attack a child, his hard-working family and all the Americans who would sympathize with their plight. Like I said, you’re a great guy, upright. Reap what you sow, mushmouth.
Comment by marlow — October 15, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
Sorry I didn’t get to respond to ya sooner, bud. I hate to leave ya feeling bad. I never claimed to be better than anybody, did I bud? I just don’t want govt policies that remove personal responsibility. And, again, contrary to what you and Jim Hightower seem to believe, there is more in the middle of the road than “yellow lines and dead armadillos.” Lots of regular conservative folks of both parties are firmly there. Try it sometime, bud, you’ll find that most of the folks there aren’t as hateful as those at either extreme. ;)
October 18th, 2007 at 11:42 amSome people here have truthfully commented on the fact that sites like this will allow right wingers to post comments while right wing sites will instamatically IP ban anyone who posts a leftist comment on their site.
Well, you can use those sites’ own intolerance and kneejerk banning relfex against them.
Log into the site from as many places as you can: Home, work, library, public access, etc. They’ll have to IP ban so many sites it’ll begin to interfere with their conservative users.
If a lot of people did this to redstate.org and similar poison spewing far right sites, they’d probably end up banning half the internet IP ranges in a reflex, and keep a lot of their normal posters from being able to access the site because their ISP was in at least one banned range.
This is the kind of filthy attack that I’d expect the right to play on the left, and maybe it’s about time we started matching them in the dirty tricks department. It would basically be using their “Ban anyone who disagrees with us!” mentality against them.
Also, it wouldn’t work on us so well because we don’t do that as a rule, as evidence by the far right trolls that are allowed to speak here.
October 20th, 2007 at 3:41 am