Warrantless wiretapping in place before 9/11.
Warrantless wiretapping in place before 9/11.
Today, the Washington Post publishes additional details about the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretapping, noting that the National Security Agency approached Qwest “more than six months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.” But the Body Politik’s Igor Volsky points out that President Bush has claimed that the program was put in place in response to 9/11:
After September the 11th, I vowed to the American people that our government would do everything within the law to protect them against another terrorist attack. As part of this effort, I authorized the National Security Agency to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. [5/11/06]
Kagro X adds, “If Qwest’s competitors were already abetting this bloodless(?) coup before 9/11, then the ‘administration’s’ domestic spying not only has little if anything to do with response to terrorism, but it also objectively failed to prevent 9/11.”
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Kagro X adds, “If Qwest’s competitors were already abetting this bloodless(?) coup before 9/11, then the ‘administration’s’ domestic spying not only has little if anything to do with response to terrorism, but it also objectively failed to prevent 9/11.â€
Maybe our government hates us...
October 13th, 2007 at 6:54 pmNice try, Bush, but the gig is up! Your intention to violate the constitution had absolutely NOTHING to do with protecting americans, that's now clear. It had everything to do with breaking the law and spying on political foes.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:58 pmLet's not get started about who knew what and when regarding 911 because those "truths" are about to be released now too.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pmThis dictator clearly needs to be impeached. He was acting as a Dictator before it was even possible to invoke "national security" by the looks of this. IMPEACH BUSH NOW!
October 13th, 2007 at 6:59 pmThis is reminiscent of the Patriot Act which was concocted and ready to go well in advance of 911 - just ask the twisted members of PNAC.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:00 pmWhat's it going to take to get rid of BushCo? Just when you think Bush couldn't stoop any lower, something more criminal and insane surfaces. Our spinless congress seems to think we can afford to wait until Bush leaves office on his own.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:04 pmThe endless duplicity of the Bush Admin is an astonishing thing to see. Is there no end to the ugly crap this crowd is willing to try?
If what Nacchio said is true, that the WH was proceeding w/ warantless wiretapping BEFORE 9/11, and even w/ all the security memos from Richard Clarke leading up the WTC, they still couldn't stop it, this has become an epic, mind-boggling FUBAR.
And yet the hardcore 28%ers STILL follow this man...
October 13th, 2007 at 7:06 pmNow we know why Bush is pushing so hard to get immunity for those telecommunications firms who cooperated with the eavesdropping. Any lawsuits brought against them could likely reveal the dates they began their little spy games.
And, if they were spying on us before 9/11 and failed to prevent that attack, then they have no justification to continue these programs because they obviously are of no value to our security.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:08 pmWatch the main stream press. If this has come up in a court case then it has been admitted as evidence and must have met some level of objective truth. This is not rumor being presented by a "fringe" web site. Even the hint that such a thing is true should send real journalists into action.
1. The Administration was knowingly breaking the law before 9/11.
2. The Administration was violating the privacy of individuals and rejecting our constitution.
If true, then everything the Bush Gang have said supporting their demands for excessive Executive powers to "protect U.S. citizens" is a lie.
Frankly, even in our propaganda laden press, such a story has Pulitzer written all over it. Failure to even follow-up the reports means that our Press has been completely gutted by the Bush Gang and we are reading and hearing only propaganda.
Watch and see if this story gets play or gets buried. If the former then we have a chance and if the latter then we are really lost.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pmFrom the Kagro X link: "And in May 2006, a lawsuit filed against Verizon for allegedly turning over call records to the NSA alleged that AT&T began building a spying facility for the NSA JUST DAYS AFTER PRESIDENT BUSH WAS INAUGERATED. That lawsuit is one of 50 that were consolidated and moved to a San Francisco federal district court, where the suits sit in limbo waiting for the 9th Circuit Appeals court to decide whether the suits can proceed without endangering national security." {Emphasis mine}
Those lawsuits must go forward; it's essential we know when and why the Bush administration began to spy on Americans.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:09 pmThis is reminiscent of the Patriot Act which was concocted and ready to go well in advance of 911 - just ask the twisted members of PNAC.
Comment by Veritas — October 13, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
The entire act was written as "edits" or "addendums" to existing law. Unless you have the original text (existing US laws and statutes being modified and sitting before you), as you read the unPatriot Act(up) then it makes no sense. It's all legal mumbo jumbo stuff. Nothing is clearly stated and the language is suspect in every syllable. And that sh!t does NOT get produced in such short time after 9/11!!!!!!
WE ARE UNDER A FACIST ATTACK FROM WITHIN!!!!!!!
October 13th, 2007 at 7:14 pmThis is wonderful, in a perfect world the democrats could now call bush's bluff.  In their FISA re authorization they could offer retrograde immunity for telecom companies that co-operated with Bush after 9/11, but no immunity for offenses before 9/11.  Would bush agree to this, and if not, what sort of logic could he use? Â
October 13th, 2007 at 7:15 pmi've been waiting for a major news outlet, ANY news outlet, to put 2 and 2 together and come up with the oh-so-obvious conclusion that the bush administration, no doubt like the clinton administration before it, has been spying on u.s. citizens for a very long time, and that 9/11 was a very useful event for ratcheting it all up several notches and convincing us that being under constant surveillance was only for our own good...
so...? where's the outcry...? where's the outrage...? where are the calls for resignation or impeachment...? where's congress...? oh, wait... congress is deliberating about whether to give telecom companies retroactive immunity to prosecution for anything illegal they might have done by allowing the government to spy on u.s. citizens... nice to know SOMEBODY'S out there looking out for our civil liberties and the united states constitution...
And, yes, I DO take it personally
October 13th, 2007 at 7:31 pmRocknerd, that is one of the best ideas I've ever read in a post. Of course, what's even better is for the Dems to tell Bush & Co. to take a long walk off a short pier and take their drooling chatroom stooges with them.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:34 pmWhat?
This administration would lie about something like usurping the Fourth Amendment rights of Americans>?
Uh, Yes. Unequivocably, YES.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:36 pmDoes this put the firing of the 8 US Attorneys in a different perspective? Those 8 allegedly weren't "loyal" enough, and their replacements were tested first to make sure they would "drink the KoolAid". Maybe there were fears/concerns the truth about illegal warrantless wiretapping was going to come out. To avoid prosecution around the country, Bushies were hired to replace those attorneys who still believed in the US Constitution. With the Bushies in place, they could stonewall and delay bringing suit until King George & Darth Cheney were out of office and safely ensconced in their secret fortresses.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:45 pmi’ve been waiting for a major news outlet, ANY news outlet, to put 2 and 2 together
Comment by profmarcus — October 13, 2007 @ 7:31 pm
honey, the telecoms OWN all the major news outlets.
they aint gonna say squat.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:48 pm9/11 is just an excuse for criminal activity by the Bush Administration. The illegal wiretapping was going on before that tragic date, just like WHIG was going on before that date. Nixon didn't have a 9/11 to hide behind, and he resigned before he was prosecuted to the full extent of the law (not to mention being pardoned).
Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, please resign and save us the time and trouble: do the right thing for once and turn yourselves in.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:51 pmIn their FISA re authorization they could offer retrograde immunity for telecom companies that co-operated with Bush after 9/11, but no immunity for offenses before 9/11. Would bush agree to this, and if not, what sort of logic could he use?
Comment by rocknerd — October 13, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
that is diabolically clever, strategic thinking.
i wish you were in congress.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:51 pmI'm starting to wonder if deals between the phonie's and the republicans preceded the 2000 election just as the deal ronnie reagan made with the mullahs of Iran preceding the 1980 election. Being the case, maybe the phone companies had a direct "conection" to the Gore defeat.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:52 pmIn '80 the republicans slept with the Iranians in 2000 the slept with the Israeli's.
I wonder which are the better bed fellow?
Where is Larry Craig? He definately has the answer.
Another thing that I've been thinking of lately; How is it that Bush had a set of blueprints handy, to go build the Bagdad Embassy overnight?
October 13th, 2007 at 8:03 pmI've been in Heavy Industrial Construction for over 30 years, and nothing moves that quick! I mean one day they're bombing, the next they're pouring concrete!
How did"W" do it? Just the logistics of that site ,would befuddle most companies, and in a war zone to boot!
So what we've learned is that all that wiretapping did nothing to prevent a terrorist attack.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:08 pmThis will be Bush's downfall now - Watergate had nothing on Spygate!
October 13th, 2007 at 8:10 pmOh boy! I hope the Democrats don't hear any of this. They might have to do something about it, and we all know Democrates HATE confrontation.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:10 pmWas it a case of "they couldn't stop it" or "the didn't want to stop it"?? Now maybe the truth will come out.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pmSpygate Tanks the Bush Administration - next week's headlines. It wasn't long before Nixon resigned rather than be impeached when his singular spying on the Dem. Hdqtrs was outed.
This "crime" is a million times worse. I predict that Bush will resign within the next two months as the evidence mounts.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:13 pmBEFORE 9/11
October 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pmThe Afghanistan war was planned before 9/11.
The decision to launch the Iraq war was made before 9/11.
The decision to launch a war against Iran was made before 9/11.
The Patriot Act was written before 9/11.
The government's spying on Americans began before 9/11....
http://cuturl.com?964101
Didn't ol' Deadeye say something to the effect that 9/11 could have been prevented if they could spy on anyone without a warrant?
Hey, Dick, is that yolk dripping off your cheek and shell pieces on your nose?
October 13th, 2007 at 8:18 pm.
Why do Bush, his fellow PNACers, and the Republicans that support them, hate America?
.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:20 pm.
Q U E S T I O N:
What good is a law (FISA) that reigns in an Executive when we have a Congress that contemplates granting him, and his cohorts, immunity from that very law?
.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:27 pmIt's easier to steal elections and pass through unacceptable legislation when you've been wiretapping everybody for years and have dirt on all of them. Hagel said he wasn't running for the Senate again because he was unhappy with the Republican party. Maybe we need to know why he and Warner are quitting. It's easy to assume that they are tired of the prowar bible thumpers but maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe Bushco has been putting the screws to many of these people and everybody's afraid to lose their jobs or families because of some dirt on them.
October 13th, 2007 at 8:35 pmwell, now, more than ever, i have to believe it was
all about spying on political enemies...
and that's a LOT of people...
October 13th, 2007 at 8:36 pm...
[...] lawsuit is one of 50 that were consolidated and moved to a San Francisco federal district court, where the suits sit in limbo waiting for the 9th Circuit Appeals court [...]
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush @ 7:09 pm
! just today i heard a name... a bush appointee to the 9th...
October 13th, 2007 at 8:44 pmbad guy, of course... i cannot remember who now, but when i heard
the story, i made a mental note to watch for a change in the 9th...
reputed to be too liberal, they would want to stack that one for sure...
...
They hate us for our freedom! No, not Al Qaeda, Bush's cabal!
October 13th, 2007 at 8:57 pmLies, lies, lies. For my money, this is akin to the provision they slipped into the Military Commissions Act last year that exonerated the Executive branch for any wrongdoing retroactive to September 11, 2001. Now that I think about it, does this not occur outside that provision, and is therefore actionable by Congress and a criminal court?
As for impeachment, I've given up. When the Republicans can't even breach their deliberate partisan myopia to insure impoverished children, I can't believe enough of them would willingly crucify one of their own.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:16 pmI want to hear more on this. The source is not great so hearing this from a second source would be very helpful.
But if this should pan out as relialble then it means that the neocons started to implement the complete takeover of the government the day they assumed power.
This also points out why immunity is such a bad idea. Without 9/11 as a cover, what possible reasons could the telecoms have for agreeing to granting full snooping power to the government. It would have made no sense in that context.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:17 pmNow we know why Bush is pushing so hard to get immunity for those telecommunications firms who cooperated with the eavesdropping. Any lawsuits brought against them could likely reveal the dates they began their little spy games.
And, if they were spying on us before 9/11 and failed to prevent that attack, then they have no justification to continue these programs because they obviously are of no value to our security.
Comment by Tigris Lily — October 13, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
Well, members of Congress could force the telcoms to testify.
Or....
They could just write a bunch of letters to them requesting info and stuff. We know how effective that's been with the administration.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:20 pmWas it a case of “they couldn’t stop it†or “the didn’t want to stop it�? Now maybe the truth will come out.
Comment by Veritas — October 13, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
Ummm...I'll take door # 2. Just look at what all it has enabled this administration to do.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:23 pmBush really is an idiot.
(Having said that, I'm playing devil's advocate in the following...)
All he had to do was to say that the program started prior to 9/11 as part of his efforts to track terrorists, and this little technicality wouldn't have mattered. And while we say that it's a sign of failure for the program since it didn't catch the 9/11 perpetrators, another sign of failure -- his ignoring the Aug. 6 PDB -- didn't even cause a majority of the public to blink.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pmObservations made upon hearing this (and I figure we haven't heard everything -- not by a long shot):
1) This is more evidence that the way you can tell the Bush is lying is when his lips are moving.
2) This is also evidence that warrantless wiretapping isn't terribly effective -- 9/11 appeared to take Bushco by surprise (at least that's their story). Of course, we already knew this -- REAL terrorists use disposable, untraceable cell phones.
3) This would explain why everybody rolls over obediently for Darth Cheney -- he really DOES have blackmail material on everybody.
And one final observation:
Believe it or not, this could also work as evidence to put to rest the rumor that 9/11 was actually orchestrated by the BA. If they had planned 9/11 all along, why would they make such a major blunder as to implement post-9/11 plans beforehand? Unless, of course, 9/11 was planned after the fact to cover up tracks and provide a reason to give immunity to accomplices.
This whole administration stinks to high heaven. I miss the days when the worst things our president was doing was diddling an intern and letting his benefactors sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:33 pm"Oh boy! I hope the Democrats don’t hear any of this. They might have to do something about it, and we all know Democrates HATE confrontation.
Exactly right. I just got a fundraising call from some Dem committee or other claiming that Pelosi can't move impeachment because they "don't have the votes," that they don't have a MAJORITY. Last I heard the Democrats have nearly a 30 vote majority in the House.
As I have said in response to numerous mailings, if Pelosi can't muster a majority to bring impeachment proceedings in the house, she doesn't deserve to be speaker.
Send a copy of the constitution to your representatives. Demand they uphold their oath to support it. Either party--surely there a few Republicons who actually take this seriously.
And by the way, the neocons have been plotting to destroy the constitution since 1974. They want it all, they want it now, they want it any way they can get it--usually requiring cheating, theft of elections, and fraud.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:48 pmAs for impeachment [ me to, but i just can't say it ] , When the Republicans can’t even breach their deliberate partisan myopia to insure impoverished children, I can’t believe enough of them would willingly crucify one of their own.
Comment by Red Pill — October 13, 2007 @ 9:16 pm
it has to be bi-partisan... why, oh why?
October 13th, 2007 at 9:48 pm... but it has to be...
...
Comment by missmolly — October 13, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
Good points, Miss Molly. I also miss a president who could speak in coherent sentences that also had an air of intelligence about them.
October 13th, 2007 at 9:51 pmyeah, dont hold your breath waiting for Pelosi...
October 13th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Setting aside my atheism and assuming for the sake of debate that God exists - again I ask: if the almighty Commander Guy has a direct line to God like he says he does, why does he need an agency like the NSA to help him spy?
October 13th, 2007 at 10:10 pmYou know, when I heard this story on the Evening news tonight...
Oops, no, waitaminute... mustabeen a dream. Not only was this story not on the news, there was no network news at all tonight. Preempted by college football.
Convenient timing, huh?
October 13th, 2007 at 10:23 pmEvery day, the list of lies and crimes committed by this Administration rack up.
If the next President doesn't launch a full-scale criminal investigation into the previous (this current) Administration, they should be charged with dereliction of duty at the least, and complicity in a crime at most.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:25 pmIf this can be proven, then Bush&Co were planning to take over the country as soon as they stole the office of president. What possible cause did they have to attempt such action, except for nefarious reasons?
It also proves that wiretapping was absolutely useless in preventing the terror attacks.
I am late to the blog tonight, and I see many people are way ahead of me.
Is it any wonder that the conspiracy theories continue?
October 13th, 2007 at 10:36 pmComment by questioneverything — October 13, 2007 @ 9:48 pm
If this is the way the Dems are wording their fundraising pitches, they need to be a bit more clear. Yes, they have a majority in the House to impeach. What they don't have is a 60% majority in the Senate to convict. I assume this is what they meant, and their point is probably that we need to work to elect more Democrats to get a majority in both the House and Senate that's actually meaningful.
To say "we don't have the votes" before a trial even begins is rather ludicrous when you think about it (even if it IS true), because the Senate is the JURY in the trial following impeachment. As with any jury in any court, the Senators are required to listen to and evaluate all evidence in a fair and impartial manner and then render a verdict.
If you had a jury in a regular court whose minds were already made up before the trial began, this would be unacceptable. But that's exactly what we have in the Senate -- a bunch of Senators who either support or condemn Bush and Cheney, and no amount of evidence is going to sway anybody's position. It was pretty much that way with Clinton's trial, too. This is why Pelosi doesn't want to impeach. She knows within one or two what the final vote will be for conviction (REGARDLESS of how the trial goes), and she thinks the whole process will be a waste of time.
I beg to differ with her. Even though there are more than 40 Repub senators (plus Lieberman) who will vote in lockstep to support the president and vice president no matter what, the American people still deserve a trial. We deserve to know what exactly has been going on with this administration. All the lies, all the underhanded deals, all the violations of the constitution -- everything. THEN when the Repubs vote to acquit, they will be forced to defend their vote to a public that's fed up.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:45 pmI predict that Bush will resign within the next two months as the evidence mounts.
Comment by Veritas — October 13, 2007 @ 8:13 pm
From your lips to God's ears...
October 13th, 2007 at 10:47 pmit's all going according to plan. Hillary is their final connection
October 13th, 2007 at 10:49 pmThe road maps to get to right here right now were printed before bushcon.
October 13th, 2007 at 11:01 pmBushcon just happened to be the face on the cover.
Why no one ever stopped this is what's trully hard to fathom.
BEFORE September the 11th, I vowed to the LEMMINS that our government would do everything OUTSIDE the law to SCARE them WITH THREATS OF terrorist attacks. As part of this effort, I authorized the National Security Agency to intercept the POLITICAL OPPONENTS AND CRITICS communications of people with known links to THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY and related LIBRAL organizations.
There fixed it for you.
Buck Fush
October 13th, 2007 at 11:15 pmThis bunch of thugs are fascist cowards to the core. Chimpeachment has been in order for years. The problem is that that brown shirts are all connected to the crime family and they protect der fuhrer over the constitution. They should all suffer the same punishment they have implemented illegally.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:03 amYet another lie by the Bush administration exposed.
Why am I not surprised?
October 14th, 2007 at 12:27 amThere it goes, up in smoke, one more falsehood put forth to justify another illegal action.
The Bush administration has elevated mendacity to a whole new level.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:38 amDon't be surprised about what you learn about warrantless wiretapping. The Cato Institute beat up President Clinton in 1997 for the same thing in their policy analysis #271. The problem at least as I see it, are the lawyers who advise the President and who encourage them to get into this grey area. Less Presidential power and more respect for the rule of law period should be the national mantra. The link to Cato and the article is here:
October 14th, 2007 at 12:38 amhttp://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1130
Sam Ervin, the Harvard country lawyer's quote, "Oh, what tangled webs we weave . . . " still echoes.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:40 amPLEASE CONTACT YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATOR AND DEMAND THAT BUSH BE IMPEACHED FOR THIS ILLEGAL ACT. The Democrats won't unless they know we mean business. So please, please contact them on Monday and don't stop until they start IMPEACHMENT proceedings.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:54 am>AND DEMAND THAT BUSH BE IMPEACHED
how about we start out demanding that they don't give the telecoms retroaktiv immunity...that would be a start..
October 14th, 2007 at 1:11 amDoes this revelation now add strength to the 911 Conspiracy Theories? After all, if the accusations are true, then 911 was simply political cover for an illegal and immoral crime against all so-called privacy laws, not to mention the devastation of the Bill of Rights! Further, was the Patriot Act rubber stamped through Congress after 911 to provide additional cover??
October 14th, 2007 at 1:37 amAs George Costanza would say, "A-HAAAA!!!"
October 14th, 2007 at 1:47 amThe Washington Post is about two years to late with his story but better late then never. Jason Leopold of Truthout.org reported this two years ago. Of course the Media would not report it because it would have allowed the general public to know that all this spying for set up when Bush took office. The NSA isn't for spying for terrorist it's for the big businesses that put Bush/Cheney in office to get information on overseas businesses and smaller American businesses so they could take them over. Yes one ear is listen to the terrorist but all the rest is for business. No one ever stop to think why Bush/Cheney/Connie were interested in the memo that read Bin Laden to attack US with planes. The inter Bush/Cheney circle knew what was really happening but the rest of the people were told the lies. Now watch more rats turn on each other as we will finally know the truth. All this spying, stealing, invasion and corruption was planned long before the 2000 election. It started when Daddy Bush lost the election to Bill Clinton.
I'll give Karl Rove credit he really knew how to fool the American people. He even used God to get the Christians to follow his lead. Only an idiot would believe God said he wanted George W. Bush as President. That should have been America's first clue all this was a trick.
October 14th, 2007 at 2:11 amMaybe they were just getting a head start, to work out any glitches in the system, BEFORE 9/11 arrived. Oh, that's right, to do that, perhaps they knew that 9/11 was going to occur.
And it would appear that hundreds of pages of the PATRIOT Act were probably already written prior to 9/11, although nothing less that what occurred that day would have provided the impetus for Congress to sanction such an unprecedented curtailment of the freedoms enjoyed in this country for more than two centuries.
I would submit that those who believe the Bush Administration is too incompetent to pull off something so nefarious are seriously mistaken.
They have appeared incompetent only when it has served their purposes (e.g., if government fails at a task, that would prove the argument to contract that function to the private sector, "coincidentally" a friendly corporation who can provide generous campaign contributions) and have far less accountability. If the Bushies were generally incompetent, that would likely extend to all areas.
I would argue that the White house has been extremely effective in those areas that it considers to be a priority. How else can anyone explain an occupant of the Oval Office with a sub-30 percent approval rating continuing to ignore the will of the American people and the Constitution at every turn, and despite this, has been able to continue getting his own way in almost every area it considers to be important? And when it comes to taking care of their family, friends and campaign donors, they have been exceedingly competent.
The truth is not pretty. We turn away from it at our peril.
October 14th, 2007 at 3:15 amhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2188777,00.html
Tell me, what is the statute of limitations...
on treason?
October 14th, 2007 at 4:57 amGreat find Bruce G.
I sure hope Rich Barlow becomes a household word (name).
October 14th, 2007 at 7:39 amAs I scan through the posts this morning, I find it very curious that there isn't one troll out there to defend this story, or support this obvious breach of the constitution by Bush.
Guess it's becoming impossible to find even a shred of credibility or honor in anything this man has done.
October 14th, 2007 at 7:50 amNow let's see what Congress does with this information. If they cave, the people will riot.
October 14th, 2007 at 7:51 amIf they'd impeached Bush/Cheney long ago, it wouldn't have come to this. If they still continue to drag their feet and even more heinous crimes are outed (like complicity in 911), then the Dems will have the resulting anarchy on their hands for not having done the right thing when it should have been done.
They may believe that they are tanking the GOP by allowing Bush to hang himself and infuriate the people; but they fail to realize that there is a breaking point in all things - a point where the fallout of not correcting something becomes toxic to the enabler. This dem congress had better realize soon that in order to "save themselves" from the backlash and anger of the people when they discover even more horrendous wrongdoing is to nip it in the bud right now.
October 14th, 2007 at 7:54 amCondi Rice: "Pot, kettle, black"
October 14th, 2007 at 7:56 amhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7043312.stm
Veritas...
Regarding Impeachment, I think timing is everything. Richard Nixon won the 1972 election in a landside, but he was just as guilty of impeachable offenses then as he was 2 years later. It took John Deans testimony, and release of the Nixon tapes to turn the country against him.
October 14th, 2007 at 8:14 amThe Bush/ Cheney administration will get tripped up on their own arrogant mistakes. This Spygate will open up a can with plenty of worms to bring them to justice.
I wish Bush had been thrown out of office a long time ago...the damage he has done to America is enormous....but he has been very successfull in keeping his misdeeds from the Public. I just have faith in the truth and the good judgement of the American people armed with the truth.
they will never get caught or stopped. all they gotta do is use their surveillance powers to black male whoever goes after them...
October 14th, 2007 at 9:05 am"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive"....Sir Walter Scott, from "Marmion".
The only reason Bush has seemingly gotten away with his crimes is because he's corrupted the justice system and barred Congress from the evidence. Now it will be up to Congress to do the ONLY thing left in their corner and that is "impeachment".
Spygate will be Bush's "watergate". Pandora's Box has just been cracked open and the ugly snakes of the Bush Cabal have exited, never to be stacked back in again.
It's over now!
October 14th, 2007 at 9:26 amWhen this ugly information becomes "public", Congress will have no alternative left BUT to begin impeachment proceedings immediately.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:27 am#62 It's already happened and now there will be nothing they can do to stop it.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:28 amAnd we may yet discover that "the man behind the curtain at Oz" is none other than Bush 41!
October 14th, 2007 at 9:29 amAnd, if they've done nothing wrong, why the hell do they need immunity??
http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/10441
October 14th, 2007 at 9:33 amYes it was "put in place in responce to 9/11" , a "pro-active" response
October 14th, 2007 at 9:34 amBadger;
We can't impeach because Pelosi "owns" the process and she is counting on a muddy politican system to try and help the dems in the 08 elections. Or she is bought and paid for as well.
I think we have to do what yuo are suggesting in a way, we have to push for an investigation, or start one on our own, like Bev Harris did with Blackboxvoting.org .
An investigation that produces real results will get some of the scared people to start coming out into the light looking for protection.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:38 amHere is an article exposing an angle I think might be able to get some headway on a treason charge. Has to do with the 27 redaacted pages of the Commission Report and the arms deals to Saudi Arabia.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/10/13/want-to-attack-the-us-invest-in-a-bush/
If we can prove that Saudi money was tied into the 9/11 scheme (has already been proved, just not made public, see article) and we can show that this administration has covered it up to help Saudi interests, that is "aid and comfort" and that is treason.
then the investigations into 9/11 can really take off.
October 14th, 2007 at 9:42 amElections have consequences! This all would have been swept under the rug if the Dems hadn't taken control of congress.
Now
October 14th, 2007 at 9:46 amDurbin et al can DO something about it.
Veritas:
Bush used the illegal wiretaps in advance of 9/11 in order to ENABLE 9/11.
Remember ABLE DANGER?
Remember how the administration ordered them shut down and all of their evidence related to Bin Laden and al Qaeda destroyed in the months preceding 9/11?
Cheney was using these very wiretaps to spy on our own intelligence network in order to take down all of those elements who were on-to the pending false flag attack.
Have you noticed how the AT&T brand was picked up by a texas-based telephone company, and they set out to roll-up the entire industry under the AT&T brand? The money used - where did that come from?
Does the shadow government now effectively own AT&T? Is that why AT&T can get away with threatening to disconnect anyone's phone service who uses their wires to disparage the company? "THE COMPANY" is in fact "THE GOVERNMENT."
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
AT&T - In bed with the government, or PART of the (shadow) government?
http://prod1.cmj.com/articles/display_article.php?id=44047312
Portions Censored From Pearl Jam Webcast
2007-08-08 18:12:42.287,
Story by: Conor McKay
According to Pearl Jam's website, portions of the band's Sunday night set at Lollapalooza were missing from the AT&T Blue Room live webcast. Fans alerted the band to the missing material after the show. Reportedly absent from the webcast were segments of the band's performance of "Daughter," including the sung lines "George Bush, leave this world alone" and "George Bush find yourself another home."
After questioning AT&T about the incident, Lollapalooza was informed that material was indeed missing from the webcast, and that it was mistakenly cut by AT&T's content monitor. Tiffany Nels of AT&T told CMJ that they are working the matter out with the band. "We regret the mistake," she explains. "This was not intended and was an unfortunate mistake made by a webcast editor." She went on to explain that AT&T has a policy for any excessive language, and that it was set up because of its all-ages audience.
LIES!
October 14th, 2007 at 10:02 amhttp://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=7127
The "Able Danger" data-mining operation that supposedly uncovered the New Jersey cell of the 9/11 plotters was – for some reason yet to be determined – blocked and prevented from apprehending key figures in the plot, according to the testimony of at least three people who have direct knowledge of this matter. Shea's memo opens up a possibility that may relate to (and explain) the "Able Danger" blockage: was surveillance of Arab terrorist groups in the U.S. subcontracted out to the Israelis, with the knowledge and complicity of the CIA, so that "Able Danger" was considered poaching on the Israelis' preserve? Shea cites a piece in The Forward that describes Israeli covert activities in the U.S. as a violation of "a secret gentleman's agreement between the two countries," and avers:
"The real question today, however, appears to be whether the 'gentlemen's agreement' did indeed prevail here and, because we lacked adequate warning from our surrogates who were keeping the Arabs under surveillance, helped bring us to disaster."
http://www.antiwar.com/israeli-files.php
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
Israeli Company Provides U.S. Wiretaps
One company reported to be under investigation is Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm. Comverse provides almost all the wiretapping equipment and software for U.S. law enforcement.
Custom computers and software made by Comverse are tied into the U.S. phone network in order to intercept, record and store wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.
The penetration of Comverse reportedly allowed criminals to wiretap law enforcement communications in reverse and foil authorized wiretaps with advance warning. One major drug bust operation planned by the Los Angeles police was foiled by what now appear to be reverse wiretaps placed on law enforcement phones by the criminal spy ring.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml
October 14th, 2007 at 10:04 amBadger: The only thing they hadn't forseen in their devious plot to overthrow this democracy was the Midterms elections. The sentiment was soooo overwhelmingly against the Republicans at that point, that any hacking of the vote would have been very obvious and the people would have expressed their outrage back then.
The midterms will be the "thorn in the side" of this botched fascist coup. And as much as I am chagrinned by the lack of spine illustrated by the dems who are in power, kudos have to go to them for even beginning this horrendous job of unearthing Bush's skeletons.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:05 amWOW!
October 14th, 2007 at 10:05 amSo the KGBush was already active before 9/11? The similarities between Bush and Stalin are enormous. Even giving order in which the own troops will be sentences to death by having to fight unecessary/unjustified "wars".
The war in Iraq is just the "gang" utilizing the troops for their own interests (Halliburton , Blackwater, etc, etc.) .
I heard that Cheney drinks a glass of oil every day for dinner...
COMVERSE & KOBI ALEXANDER:
Kobi Alexander is the founder of the Israeli high-tech company Comverse and is wanted by the FBI for alleged financial wrongdoings. After fleeing the law in the US, Alexander was recently found and arrested in the African country of Namibia and has posted bail. He is awaiting extradition.
The U.S. government will send a request to Namibia next week for the extradition of Jacob "Kobi" Alexander, the former Comverse Technology Inc. chief executive officer wanted for securities fraud.
Alexander, 54, was freed Oct. 3 by a Namibian judge on $1.34 million bail.
The U.S. wants Alexander to face charges related to stock-option backdating, including conspiracy, securities fraud, making false filings to U.S. regulators and money laundering.
SO WHAT DID KOBI HAVE TO DO WITH WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING?
WHAT DID KOBI HAVE TO DO WITH 9/11?
ASK FOX NEWS:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
And this official DEA report:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deareportisraelispying.html
Kobi Alexander should be arrested and interrogated about his knowledge of the events of 9/11. His company acquired the other Mossad firm, Odigo, shortly after it was revealed that Odigo employees had been forewarned of the attacks on the World Trade Center.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:06 amIf the KGBush were de facto interested in national security they would fix the borders problem.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:11 amBring everyone back from Iraq, get 20,000 of those troops and assign them to patrol the borders. Half a mile per soldier (3 shifts)!
But it seems that the borders between Iraq and Iran, and others, are more important then ours. Important to whom????
Impeachment? Get real. Does Bush deserve to be impeached - of course he does. But it's not going to happen.
Many, even most, Presidents make deals with the devil - you don't get to be president, and perhaps shouldn't become president, if you can't negotiate with the power players who really control 'the system' we all live in. FDR relied on the segregationist south. Big Bill made all kinds of ugly compromises. I submit that they were, all in all, good leaders - because crafting compromises wasn't all they were about: they actually had a policy vision.
Bush is different. He has no agenda other than cementing power for his clique. Destroying the social safety net, protecting the gilded rich from taxes, and cementing a corrupt electoral/'justice' system were to be his 'legacy' - and he has come close to achieving it not because he's brilliant, but because he has powerful support.
Why aren't the Dems doing more? To answer that question, I think one should look at the tepid Iran-Contra investigation. The Iran-contra end run around congress (which had cut off funding to right-wing paramilitaries in Central America) was the academy in constitutional malfeasance most of our current players graduated from. The 'Dean' of that academy was GWH Bush, who was deeply involved in covert 'contra' support.
What did the dems do about it? Nothing but a photo-op testimony opportunity for an immunized Ollie North, who later used that testimony to overturn his convictions on technical grounds. GWH Bush shouted Dan Rather down on national TV when Rather questioned him about it - and was lionized in the MSM for his toughness for taking Rather down. GWH Bush flung pardons out, and that was it.
End of story, till these same thugs came in with W in 2001.
Why? Why didn't the Dems do more? I don't really know.
But look who some of the players were: Israeli intelligence participated in setting up the Iran Contra deal (they were in the process of blowing up Saddams nuclear reactor in those days, and rightly saw Iraq as a bigger threat than Iran). Elliot Abrams (pardoned by bush41) was a deep architect of the rightist Central American jihad (he's now asst secy of state for mid-east affairs) - he's also Norman Poderetz's son-in-law and an ardent pro Likud/Israeli neocon.
The Iraq war project was supposed to make alot of people very, very rich: Ahmed Chalabi was to be installed, a pro-Israeli, a oil-rich free-market paradise was to follow, with human rights policed by an immunized Blackwater goon squad. That's why there was no planning for post-invasion affairs. The goon squad was going to take care of it.
The Dems are either on board, like Lieberman, or afraid to peep a peep, like H. Clinton (who was crucified for kissing Y. Arafat's wife and vaguely expressing sympathy for Palestinian suffering).
Or... was blackmail involved?
Ya THINK???
Ya think Duke Cunnningham wasn't the only congressman serviced by whores moved into the Watergate 'hospitality suite' by Homeland Security limousines? Ya think Kyle 'Dusty' Foggo (a punk who allegedly got his start running whores to congressmen visiting the contras in Honduras) didn't keep a little list? Ya think Porter Goss (the right-winger who took over the CIA after tenet was forced out) wasn't dirty? Ya think?
Ya think the Dems have kept completely silent about this cuz they don't care, or didn't notice.
Sorry - the real question is, who is really running those whores. Who's holding the videos, and handing out the cash. From the 30's to the 60's it was J Edger "there's no such thing as the mafia" Hoover. Who is it now?
You don't have to look that hard. There's a triangle of influence: oil/Israel/militarists who are making billions a year off this. who have no interest in democracy or anything else the readers of this site care about.
Forget about impeachment. The best we can hope for is a push-back of the effort to suspend the constitution.
Sorry for the long post. But this stuff is real.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:15 amAlexlerman:
Excellent post.
The actual President is GHW Bush, W's old man.
And his boss is David Rockefeller.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:20 am#26 veritas says,
October 14th, 2007 at 10:29 amI predict that Bush will resign within the next two months as the evidence mounts.
We should be so lucky!! That would be the day to bring out the champagne and dance in the streeets.
Watch and learn:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pGiRkJqZU9s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vo5CZvD3-QM
All controlled by Rockefeller via AIPAC - who only allow men and women of low moral character into the political arena - who they control, through bribery and blackmail.
Has anyone in this administration been guilty of violating the DC Blackmail Statute?
District of Columbia blackmail statute. D.C. Code § 22-3852 provides that:
a) A person commits the offense of blackmail, if, with intent to obtain property of another or to cause another to do or refrain from doing any act, that person threatens:
1) To accuse any person of a crime;
2) To expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule; or
3) To impair the reputation of any person, including a deceased person.
ROCKEFELLER OWNS THE CFR.
THE CFR CONTROLS THE POLITICAL CANDIDATES.
GLOBAL FASCISM IS HERE - thanks to their pretext - 9/11.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amPlunger: Some of us know who the real president is and has been for a long time! wink...wink.....And he was head of the CIA when Kennedy was murdered....wink...wink.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:36 amPlunger: And what a pretext 911 was! It's become the "wall" for all of the criminals to hide behind and the "platform" for their next annointed one, Rudy Guiliani. Amazing that the people can't see all of this.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:37 amIt's time to investigate AIPAC, PNAC, and the entire Bush Administation. Hell they'll make the term "witch hunt" look like child's play.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:38 amVeritas: Rockefeller controls HW? You'll have to explain this one to me. And Allan Dulles was head of the CIA when Kennedy was iced - he's dirty, for sure, but...
October 14th, 2007 at 10:41 amDavid Rockefeller was the man responsible for the building of the World Trade Center. Who doublecrossed him??
October 14th, 2007 at 10:41 amBLACKMAIL – Rove style:
10.12.06
HOW ROVE TWISTED FOLEY'S ARM:
It seems increasingly clear that the GOP congressional leadership, eager for every safe incumbent in the House to run for re-election, looked the other way as evidence accumulated that Mark Foley had a thing for pages. Holding onto his seat became more important than confronting him over his extracurricular activities.
But there's more to the story of why Foley stood for re-election this year. Yesterday, a source close to Foley explained to THE NEW REPUBLIC that in early 2006 the congressman had all but decided to retire from the House and set up shop on K Street. "Mark's a friend of mine," says this source. "He told me, 'I'm thinking about getting out of it and becoming a lobbyist.'"
But when Foley's friend saw the Congressman again this spring, something had changed. To the source's surprise, Foley told him he would indeed be standing for re-election. What happened? Karl Rove intervened.
According to the source, Foley said he was being pressured by "the White House and Rove gang," who insisted that Foley run. If he didn't, Foley was told, it might impact his lobbying career.
"He said, 'The White House made it very clear I have to run,'" explains Foley's friend, adding that Foley told him that the White House promised that if Foley served for two more years it would "enhance his success" as a lobbyist. "I said, 'I thought you wanted out of this?' And he said, 'I do, but they're scared of losing the House and the thought of two years of Congressional hearings, so I have two more years of duty.'"
The White House declined a request for comment on the matter, but obviously the plan hasn't worked out quite as Rove hoped it would.
--
http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=47854
October 14th, 2007 at 10:41 amDavid Rockefeller was the man responsible for the building of the World Trade Center. Who doublecrossed him??
Comment by Badger — October 14, 2007 @ 10:41 am
Why assume there was a doublecross?
David giveth, and David taketh away.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:48 amHOW IS THE WAR IN IRAQ TIED TO 9/11 AND HALLIBURTON’S ASBESTOS LIABILITY?
ASK DICK CHENEY THE QUESTION!
BUSH ORDERED THE LIE…
PEOPLE ARE DYING:
LEVELS OF ASBESTOS
A statement about discovery of asbestos at higher than safe levels in dust samples from lower Manhattan was changed to state that "samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern."
Language in an EPA draft stating that asbestos levels in some areas were three times higher than national standards was changed to "slightly above the 1 percent trigger for defining asbestos material."
This sentence was added to a Sept. 16 news release: "Our tests show that it is safe for New Yorkers to go back to work in New York's financial district." It replaced a statement that initial monitors failed to turn up dangerous samples.
A warning on the importance of safely handling ground zero cleanup, due to lead and asbestos exposure, was changed to say that some contaminants had been noted downtown but "the general public should be very reassured by initial sampling."
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm
COLLEGE STUDENTS DYING FROM INHALED ASBESTOS:
http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=3259
ALL SO HALLIBURTON COULD REMOVE THE WTC ASBESTOS LIABILITY FROM ITS BOOKS:
The WTC was a $15 billion HALLIBURTON liability.
HALLIBURTON HAD ACQUIRED DRESSER TO SAVE THE BUSH FAMILY FROM THE LOSING POSITION IT WAS STUCK IN…all because of the pending Asbestos law suits:
GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.
"To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."
October 14th, 2007 at 10:53 amHalliburton's receipt of all the no-bid contracts was direct quid pro quo - highly illegal.
When Cheney was the CEO, he acquired Dresser to save the Bush Family's ass. Dresser made Asbestos, and the liability law suits were going to wipe them out. Cheney took one for the team when he acquired Dresser and all its asbestos liability claims (HAL was punished in the stock market)...the biggest of which was the WORLD TRADE CENTER, a $15 billion albatross that the Port Authority was hard pressed to get rid of.
When the Port Authority unloaded the buildings onto Silverstein, the fix was already in. Cheney literally ran the entire operation on 9/11 (as witnessed by Mineta) and used Dov Zakheim's SYSPLAN technology to guide the CONVERTED FUEL TANKERS to their targets (remember the huge fireball that exploded OUTSIDE the building?).
It was Cheney who instructed Christine Todd Whitman to lie about the levels of asbestos at ground zero, because he didn't want people to make the connection that the entire operation was simply arson on a grand scale, which eliminated a $15 billion liability from Halliburton's books.
MC CAIN CONNECTION:
McCain Says Major Financiers Will Back His 2008 Bid
December 15, 2006
One of the most prominent on the list of finance committee co-chairmen is the head of the New York Stock Exchange, John Thain. Mr. Thain, whose title is CEO of NYSE Group, Inc., previously served as president and CEO of Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.
A New Jersey-based investment banker deeply involved in fund-raising efforts for the 2004 Republican convention, Lewis Eisenberg, is signing on with Mr. McCain. Mr. Eisenberg is a former Goldman Sachs partner who served as chairman of the Port Authority board at the time of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
It was Eisenberg who passed the $15 billion Asbestos Liability represented by the Twin Towers onto Larry Silverstein, the man who confessed publicly to having Building 7 "PULLED" by explosives – despite the fact that no plane struck it:
Rescuer 2: "Keep your eye on that building, it will be coming down soon."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr5TxKTMRx0
LISTEN to the firefighters and police:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnbpz9udYus
Listen to the owner:
October 14th, 2007 at 11:08 amhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaUeGvYYxc
If the next President doesn’t launch a full-scale criminal investigation into the previous (this current) Administration, they should be charged with dereliction of duty at the least, and complicity in a crime at most.
Comment by Mugsy
they won't...too many Demos have been complicent in the crimes from The Patriot Act, Iraq War and war funding, and sleeping with AIPAC. Perhaps if these dopes listened to Kucinich and Ron Paul we would not be in this mess.
BTW, T-Mobile told BushCo too go screw also. Cingular uses AT&T towers.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:19 amLEGAL BEDROCK
THE RULE of law can be defined as a system in which the laws are public knowledge, are clear in meaning, and apply equally to everyone. They enshrine and uphold the political and civil liberties that have gained status as universal human rights over the last half-century. . . . Perhaps most important, the government is embedded in a comprehensive legal framework, its officials accept that the law will be applied to their own conduct, and the government seeks to be law-abiding.
What is happening now in Washington is -- in every respect -- the exact opposite of this. Already, it was revealed that our highest government officials, including the President, broke the law deliberately and for years by spying on Americans without the warrants required by the laws we enacted, and all of official Washington immediately agreed that nothing should happen as a result. And nothing did happen.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/index.html
October 14th, 2007 at 11:20 amCheney & Lay:
Documents turned over in the summer of 2003 by the Commerce Department as a result of the Sierra Club's and Judicial Watch's Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as two charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts." The documents, dated March 2001, also feature maps of Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates oilfields, pipelines, refineries and tanker terminals. There are supporting charts with details of the major oil and gas development projects in each country that provide information on the project's costs, capacity, oil company and status or completion date.
Documented plans of occupation and exploitation predating September 11 confirm heightened suspicion that U.S. policy is driven by the dictates of the energy industry. According to Judicial Watch President, Tom Fitton, "These documents show the importance of the Energy Task Force and why its operations should be open to the public."
When first assuming office in early 2001, President Bush's top foreign policy priority was not to prevent terrorism or to curb the spread of weapons of mass destruction--or any of the other goals he espoused later that year following 9-11. Rather, it was to increase the flow of petroleum from suppliers abroad to U.S. markets. In the months before he became president, the United States had experienced severe oil and natural gas shortages in many parts of the country, along with periodic electrical power blackouts in California. In addition, oil imports rose to more than 50% of total consumption for the first time in history, provoking great anxiety about the security of the country's long-term energy supply. Bush asserted that addressing the nation's "energy crisis" was his most important task as president.
The energy turmoil of 2000-01 prompted Bush to establish a task force charged with developing a long-range plan to meet U.S. energy requirements. With the advice of his close friend and largest campaign contributor, Enron CEO, Ken Lay, Bush picked Vice President Dick Cheney, former Halliburton CEO, to head this group. In 2001 the Task Force formulated the National Energy Policy (NEP), or Cheney Report, bypassing possibilities for energy independence and reduced oil consumption with a declaration of ambitions to establish new sources of oil.
The Bush Administration's struggle to keep secret the workings of Cheney's Energy Task Force has been ongoing since early in the President's tenure.
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/8.html
In the spring of 2001 the severity of the California energy emergency had inspired demands for government action, and Enron had a problem.
Enron CEO Kenneth Lay knew he needed high-level help. So he arranged to meet with a man who had headed a corporation with extensive business ties to Enron and who had been a prime recipient of Enron's political largesse. Vice President Dick Cheney cleared his calendar for an April 17 private meeting with Lay regarding what aides described as "energy policy matters" and "the energy crisis in California." At the meeting Lay handed Cheney a memo that read in part: "The administration should reject any attempt to re-regulate wholesale power markets by adopting price caps...."
The day after he met with Lay, Cheney gave a rare phone interview to the Los Angeles Times that had one recurrent theme: Price caps were out of the question. Dismissing the strategy as "short-term political relief for the politicians," Cheney bluntly declared, "I don't see that as a possibility."
Indeed, so close was the Cheney-Enron relationship that it is entirely reasonable to ask whether ethical and legal lines were crossed. That possibility offers the most realistic explanation for Cheney's refusal to disclose details of his Enron contacts to Congress.
Cheney's refusal to cooperate with investigators--which presidential historian Stanley Kutler refers to as part of a broad "assault on the legal and Constitutional order" by the Bush Administration--forms the most powerful argument for the appointment of a special counsel.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020415/nichols
The BBC was told by Niaz Naik, a Pakistani Foreign Secretary, that senior American officials were warning them as early as mid-July, 2001 that military action for mid-October was being planned for Afghanistan.
Say what?
In 1996, the Department of Energy was issuing reports on the desirability of a pipeline through Afghanistan, and in 1998, Unocal testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that this pipeline was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean.
Such a plan would by necessity be a war plan, and this war plan was actually in place prior to 9/11.
Surely any good war plan requires at its core a starting point, a trigger if you will that provides a good "cover story" to implement it. Clearly you can't just go around invading countries without a good reason...you need to be attacked first, then retaliate.
Was 9/11 simply part of the war plan?
Why wouldn't it have been?
You can't hit the "GO" button without a pretext.
9/11 was the pretext for the invasion of the Middle East - all by design.
So the implementation of such a plan would require BY NECESSITY the implementation of a FALSE FLAG ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES of such magnitude that it would rival the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor thereby invoking the Pavlovian response which resulted.
If you were looking for anyone to pull off the perfect False Flag Operation on your behalf, there is only one place you would look...Israel's Mossad.
The so-called Energy Crisis in California was entirely fabricated of whole cloth by none other than Ken Lay's Enron - in concert with Poppy Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and even Alan Greenspan.
The only thing more outrageous than these theories is the belief that the timing of 9/11 was a coincidence. It would be a stretch (even for a COINCIDENCE THEORIST), to contend that all of these matters are not directly related.
October 14th, 2007 at 11:29 amdoes plunger work for the bush admin?
October 14th, 2007 at 12:04 pm#91 ~
No. Plunger is the voice of the ultra conspiratorialists.
He may be right about stuff, but his Gary Davis (None Dare Call it Conspiracy) methodology of repetitious posting doesn't help his cause much, IMHO.
No offense Ace, but less is sometimes more.
By the way, did you know that David Rockefeller and Prince Bernhardt of the Netherlands visited Moscow secretly and two days later Kruschev was ousted? The trilateral commission and Council on Foreign Relations actually rules the world.
October 14th, 2007 at 12:22 pmPlunger --
October 14th, 2007 at 12:38 pmFascinating posts today.
Sorry for the long post. But this stuff is real.
Comment by alexlerman — October 14, 2007 @ 10:15 am
not long at all when written like that...
you too, plunger... er, well... at times, too much...
buy, whew!... pretty deep for a sunday morning, guys...
there is none of it i can doubt... none of it would surprise me...
i've thought for years that so much criminal activity could only exist while ensuring that anyone who could prevent it would be
compromised into submission...
oh! where are the heroes?!
...
my disposition requires that i retreat to the garden,
or be levelled to ever deeper depressions... so sad...
g'day all... later...
October 14th, 2007 at 12:39 pm.
Doesn't the Bush administration's violations of the warrantless wiretap provisions long before 9-11 increase the likelihood that they knew even more about the impending attacks of 9/11 than they've admitted to? From this one could infer a higher probability that they allowed the attacks to proceed anyway, as some have already alleged.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:05 pmThere has NOT been a satisfactory investigation of the events of Sept. 11th. The 911 Commisions' efforts left way too many questions unanswered.
October 14th, 2007 at 1:25 pmI believe I have seen posts of Plunger's character before. They bear no small resemblance to the anonymous poster from the TPM world who stitched together an eclectic array of statutes and events to make a case for the impeachment and conviction of Dick Cheney. Plunger, does a rose by any other name smell as sweet?
October 14th, 2007 at 2:45 pmDUDE, under Bill Clinton there were warrantless house searches.
The Patriot Act was a revamp of the 1995-6 Omnibus crime bill that they tried to pass right after the OKC bombing.
Is it starting to make sense yet?
October 14th, 2007 at 3:16 pmWhile Frank Rich doesn't address the specific issue raised here he makes a number of great comments about how things have dragged out and how the more we see the more we are reminded of WW II Germany.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/opinion/14rich2.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
October 14th, 2007 at 4:27 pmCheney's wiretapping has to do with reversing what was done to correct the thugs of Watergate and to return the country on the road to fascism. These are thugs and they are out to destroy the constitution, and the democracy, in the name of fascism. They will hide behind the flag and the cross.
October 14th, 2007 at 4:42 pmSomeday, TP will stop deleting comments from 911 “conspiracy theoristsâ€.
Someday, TP and the rest of the world, will begin to put together the obvious truth thats been staring us all in the face 6 years now. That 911 did not just “happenâ€, and that at “some levelâ€, the Bush administration was culpable.
What that level of culpability is I don’t know. But there are glaring signs that the Bush administration at the very least, KNEW 911 was coming, and at the worst, had some role in carrying it out.
Comment by BARTLEBEE
BARTLEBEE, I think the Bush Administration was at best. looking the other way on 9/11. At worst, funded it. Either way, they were in the mix, sort of like the 5 dancing Israelis in New Jersey, the bomb-sniffing dog removal the weekend before, no jets scrambles, and of course, WTC7. The Powers Get Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman to regurgitate the Bush Administrations Conspiracy Theory. This is perhaps where the Left goes awry. They take their leaders word for word, much like the Right does. Bill Maher makes it a joke, and he sounds strangely identical to Dennis Miller. What amazes me is that all it takes is a bit more research.
Pre-9/11 wiretapping?? This shows they knew about 9/11, but did nothing or were trying to find out who knew ahead of time. I know Mike Levine and Alex Jones called it months before. Personally, I don't care for either one of them too much, but they both agree on the ever-present Police State we are currently in. Well, Nixon was wire-tapping those on his "enemies" list. Republicans have always been and are a paranoid lot, with maybe the exception of Eisenhower.
October 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pmDUDE, under Bill Clinton there were warrantless house searches.
Comment by Alejandro — October 14, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
This statement is a falsehood, and has been debunked before.
The right-wing noise machine can repeat their claims all they want. That doesn't make them true.
Thanks for playing.
October 14th, 2007 at 10:31 pm#98
I have no idea about the identity of Plunger, but I believe that you were referring to posts on Think Progress.
I am not anonymous and my thoughts were not "stiched together," my thoughts are the resule of my education, experience and personal observation.
If Dick Cheney or Joe Nacchio gives you a rose . . . chances are . . . it stinks.
A petunia . . . . ?
October 15th, 2007 at 1:51 amOops . . that would be "result."
October 15th, 2007 at 1:52 amWhile Qwest's refusal to comply with the NSA mandates should be applauded, do not conflate Joe Nacchio with Qwest's actions. Applaud its attorneys. Joe has no honor, he was just following legal advice.
(He was too busy cooking the books and cashing in stock options to pay much attention . . . the man is not a saint)
October 15th, 2007 at 2:12 ami thought the illegal spying was in RESPONSE to the purported and alleged 11 September "attacks"... why would they have been spying on americans, ILLEGALLY, before the alleged attacks occurred? (and, it didn't have any affect in "stopping" the "terrorists" from "attacking"...)
oh, that's right, the spying didn't have anything to do with the "attacks", just like everything else the liars in Washington pinned on the "attacks": the "Patriot" Act, the war, renditions, torture, etc. etc. etc.
October 15th, 2007 at 10:45 amThis is a discouraging story. There are usually two sides to most stories. Wiretaps are a big constitutional issue. Watch this trailer about Estonia’s Singing Revolution, http://singingrevolution.com; this might put into perspective what’s most important.
October 15th, 2007 at 2:09 pm