Comments on: 14 percent: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:40:58 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: notrich http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4128340 notrich Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:29:45 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4128340 Let me tell you about a recent case that put a man away for a quarter of a century, a case where the government named more than a hundred people as “un-indicted co-conspirators”, but presented no evidence of this vast conspiracy in the trial. Instead, they used this tactic as a very effective method of scaring anyone from testifying for the defense. In this same very high profile case, where the defendants were "presumed guilty until proven innocent" by a very biased media, jury selection was limited to five whole hours (Timothy McVeigh got a week, Terry Nichols a month) and the defense was all but handcuffed as to which prospective jurors they could reject. In reading back through responses on perspective juror's questionnaires, you can see the obvious prejudice among those who were selected. The bulk of the government's case consisted almost entirely of witnesses who had copped a plea to reduce their own sentences, giving them a very strong incentive to "cooperate". Some of these people were might have actually been innocent but, like the un-indicted mentioned above, they were pressured into a guilty plea by the prospect of a lengthy sentence. The government's star witness (who truly was a confessed liar) gave the supposed damning testimony, but it was never corroborated because the government never called the only person who could to the stand. It all makes you wonder just what the government was trying to hide. If I told you this and more about this trial, you'd be screaming, "Injustice!" and railing against a Dept of Justice that is completely out of control...that is until I tell you that I'm talking about the Lay/Skilling trial. I am a liberal, I sing folk music for a living, if you can call it that. I am not a corporate apologist. I also happened to pay very close attention to the Enron affair. It's quite safe to say it ain't nothing like the books or movies or even most of the news reports you've read. The average person believes Enron was a house of cards, a place of massive corruption, but the real house of cards was the Enron Task Force. They spent untold millions telling us they were uncovering massive fraud but they didn't even come close to proving it. If you actually let yourself look into the details of this case you'd see the same out of control DOJ you see in other recent events, and you'd see a witch hunt of a case where two men were railroaded into long prison terms (one has of course since died) with hearsay and a whole lot of mudslinging, but little or no real evidence. We have been hoodwinked into believing every the government said about Enron because we believe "they're rich, so they must be guilty." Isn't that kind of thinking as black and white as anything W and the neo-cons say? I say be careful what you wish for. Thinking Progress may mean fighting corporate crime, but it doesn't mean turning a blind eye to prosecutorial abuse by an over-arching Dept. of Justice and putting a man in jail for the rest of his life without evidence of any wrongdoing. Let me tell you about a recent case that put a man away for a quarter of a century, a case where the government named more than a hundred people as “un-indicted co-conspirators”, but presented no evidence of this vast conspiracy in the trial. Instead, they used this tactic as a very effective method of scaring anyone from testifying for the defense. In this same very high profile case, where the defendants were “presumed guilty until proven innocent” by a very biased media, jury selection was limited to five whole hours (Timothy McVeigh got a week, Terry Nichols a month) and the defense was all but handcuffed as to which prospective jurors they could reject. In reading back through responses on perspective juror’s questionnaires, you can see the obvious prejudice among those who were selected. The bulk of the government’s case consisted almost entirely of witnesses who had copped a plea to reduce their own sentences, giving them a very strong incentive to “cooperate”. Some of these people were might have actually been innocent but, like the un-indicted mentioned above, they were pressured into a guilty plea by the prospect of a lengthy sentence. The government’s star witness (who truly was a confessed liar) gave the supposed damning testimony, but it was never corroborated because the government never called the only person who could to the stand. It all makes you wonder just what the government was trying to hide.

If I told you this and more about this trial, you’d be screaming, “Injustice!” and railing against a Dept of Justice that is completely out of control…that is until I tell you that I’m talking about the Lay/Skilling trial.

I am a liberal, I sing folk music for a living, if you can call it that. I am not a corporate apologist. I also happened to pay very close attention to the Enron affair. It’s quite safe to say it ain’t nothing like the books or movies or even most of the news reports you’ve read. The average person believes Enron was a house of cards, a place of massive corruption, but the real house of cards was the Enron Task Force. They spent untold millions telling us they were uncovering massive fraud but they didn’t even come close to proving it. If you actually let yourself look into the details of this case you’d see the same out of control DOJ you see in other recent events, and you’d see a witch hunt of a case where two men were railroaded into long prison terms (one has of course since died) with hearsay and a whole lot of mudslinging, but little or no real evidence. We have been hoodwinked into believing every the government said about Enron because we believe “they’re rich, so they must be guilty.” Isn’t that kind of thinking as black and white as anything W and the neo-cons say?

I say be careful what you wish for. Thinking Progress may mean fighting corporate crime, but it doesn’t mean turning a blind eye to prosecutorial abuse by an over-arching Dept. of Justice and putting a man in jail for the rest of his life without evidence of any wrongdoing.

]]> By: Jericho http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120806 Jericho Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:35:51 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120806 Hmmm, seems to me the war in Iraq alone increased corruption by about 50% of the American NGP. Hell, the US would have been better off BRIBING ALL IRAQI's to just not vote for Saddam the next election. Hmmm, seems to me the war in Iraq alone increased corruption by about 50% of the American NGP. Hell, the US would have been better off BRIBING ALL IRAQI’s to just not vote for Saddam the next election.

]]> By: Max-1 http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120662 Max-1 Tue, 16 Oct 2007 06:59:14 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120662 . Being fluent in my Bush-lingish, this just means that there are far fewer bad white collar criminals. . .

Being fluent in my Bush-lingish,
this just means that there are far fewer bad white collar criminals.

.

]]> By: Georgette Orwell http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120373 Georgette Orwell Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:07:32 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120373 “do everything in our power to end the days of cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws” for everyone except ourselves and our friends. “do everything in our power to end the days of cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws” for everyone except ourselves and our friends.

]]> By: rockyroad http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120359 rockyroad Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:52:27 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120359 Denver just temporarily named a street: "Rocky Road"! Go Rocks! Denver just temporarily named a street: “Rocky Road”!

Go Rocks!

]]> By: rockyroad http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120312 rockyroad Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:12:52 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120312 Big suprise. Why would DoJ prosecute the 1%'ers that are the Bush Rangers, lobbyists, Katrina contractors, thugs providing private security in Iraq, and and a variety of no bid contractors when they've got allegations of voting violations, death penalty cases to prosecute and torture policies to defend. Saving taxpayors money thru efficient flow of resources . . . law enforcement and Constitutional rights be damned . . . Bush knows how to best serve his constituents. Oh yeah, what ever happened to that Cheney oil policy commission? As oil hits $90 a barrell, someone might want to ask . . . if not to prosecute what and who was involved there. . . based upon the widespread nature of that malfeasance, we could probably bump those prosecution numbers up significantly. Big suprise. Why would DoJ prosecute the 1%’ers that are the Bush Rangers, lobbyists, Katrina contractors, thugs providing private security in Iraq, and and a variety of no bid contractors when they’ve got allegations of voting violations, death penalty cases to prosecute and torture policies to defend.

Saving taxpayors money thru efficient flow of resources . . . law enforcement and Constitutional rights be damned . . . Bush knows how to best serve his constituents.

Oh yeah, what ever happened to that Cheney oil policy commission? As oil hits $90 a barrell, someone might want to ask . . . if not to prosecute what and who was involved there. . . based upon the widespread nature of that malfeasance, we could probably bump those prosecution numbers up significantly.

]]> By: Namtillaku http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120289 Namtillaku Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:43:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120289 Duh, with a 14% drop in corruption, stands to reason you'd have a 14% drop in prosecutions. Duh, with a 14% drop in corruption, stands to reason you’d have a 14% drop in prosecutions.

]]> By: barrelhse http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120281 barrelhse Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:34:05 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120281 Wow!! These guys are good- reduced corruption by 14%! Oh, they didn't? Wow!! These guys are good- reduced corruption by 14%!
Oh, they didn’t?

]]> By: lefty http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120260 lefty Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:09:19 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120260 All them nice white people are so good and clean All them nice white people are so good and clean

]]> By: Gregor Samsa http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120238 Gregor Samsa Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:46:57 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120238 See? There are less corruption prosecutions, because there is less corruption under Pres Bush! The word magically turned just and righteous! /sarcasm off See? There are less corruption prosecutions, because there is less corruption under Pres Bush!

The word magically turned just and righteous!

/sarcasm off

]]> By: Bob http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120225 Bob Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:18:05 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120225 "...cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws.” Ah, the Bush Legacy in a nice little sound bite. Sums up the Iraq war nicely, too. “…cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws.”

Ah, the Bush Legacy in a nice little sound bite. Sums up the Iraq war nicely, too.

]]> By: theswan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120206 theswan Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:57:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120206 When the only ones requiring a indictment are their own, no wonder. Just what goes on in the Justice Dept, .......State Dept, Pentagon, homelasnd security, interior, the office of the president? Could it be worse than sex? When the only ones requiring a indictment are their own, no wonder.
Just what goes on in the Justice Dept, …….State Dept, Pentagon, homelasnd security, interior, the office of the president? Could it be worse than sex?

]]> By: spencers mom http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120205 spencers mom Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:55:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120205 But, "cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws” IS the bush way of ruling our land! Why would he do ANYTHING to change that???? But, “cooking the books, shading the truth, and breaking our laws” IS the bush way of ruling our land! Why would he do ANYTHING to change that????

]]> By: ralph the wonder llama http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120157 ralph the wonder llama Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:16:19 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120157 Oops, Frosty -- I didn't steal your line, honest. I posted before I saw yours. Sorry. Oops, Frosty — I didn’t steal your line, honest. I posted before I saw yours. Sorry.

]]> By: ralph the wonder llama http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120154 ralph the wonder llama Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:14:41 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120154 Welllll.... maybe everyone is just behaving better lately... ya think? Welllll…. maybe everyone is just behaving better lately…

ya think?

]]> By: celtic cynic http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120144 celtic cynic Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:08:05 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120144 You've done a heck of a job, Gonzo! Thanks from everyone. You’ve done a heck of a job, Gonzo!
Thanks from everyone.

]]> By: RUCerious http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120113 RUCerious Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:39:39 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120113 Why is God angry at the Republicans? Comment by Xisithrus — October 15, 2007 @ 6:36 pm Umm, lemmee see... Death, destruction, they don't give one hairy shit about anything that has remotely to do with Xian values or conduct, just for starters,.... Why is God angry at the Republicans?

Comment by Xisithrus — October 15, 2007 @ 6:36 pm

Umm, lemmee see… Death, destruction, they don’t give one hairy shit about anything that has remotely to do with Xian values or conduct, just for starters,….

]]> By: Xisithrus http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120106 Xisithrus Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:36:06 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120106 If I was a Republican I think I would be in tears by now, how much more can go wrong? Why is God angry at the Republicans? If I was a Republican I think I would be in tears by now, how much more can go wrong?

Why is God angry at the Republicans?

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120104 Leftside Annie Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:33:28 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120104 The Bushies never met a crook they didn't award the Medal of Freedom. The Bushies never met a crook they didn’t award the Medal of Freedom.

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-4120102 Leftside Annie Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:31:03 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/14-percent/#comment-4120102 *What* a surprise. *What* a surprise.

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