CBS’ Logan: ‘We’re doing extremely badly’ in Iraq.
Last night on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno, CBS News’ Chief Foreign Correspondent Lara Logan was asked, “How are we doing” in Iraq? Logan responded, “It’s much worse than the picture, the image we even have of Iraq”:
We’re doing extremely badly, from my point of view. I was asked if I felt any guilt for the fact that the world has an impression of the war in Iraq as being very bad and going very wrong. And I said I really don’t because I can’t imagine the last time anyone saw a dead American soldier. We’ve hidden that from view. Nobody knows what that looks like, and I’ve seen plenty of it. It’s much worse than the picture, the image we even have of Iraq.
Watch it:
In light of a recent Washington Post story reporting that the U.S. had “crippled” al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), Logan explained that AQI and al Qaeda are “two entirely different things.” “To say that we have crippled them is suicide,” she stated.
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hmmm..
Is she perhaps a phony
October 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pmChief Foreign Correspondent ??
but, but… the general said we should “proclaim victory”. that’s what the general said, isn’t it?
October 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pmWhat does she know? she can’t possibly know as much as our basement-dwelling trolls, or our mansion-dwelling rightwing chickenhawks Rush and bill-O! After all, she was only there, reporting on it, and missed her daily koolaid dose.
Suck on it, bigfoot, tcdon, and the rest of you cowards. You’re wrong about all of it. You’ve let your misplaced loyalty to a coke-addled deserter trump your patriotism.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:33 pmThe swiftboating of Ms. Logan will begin in 3…2…1…
October 16th, 2007 at 1:34 pmIs the “proclaim victory” scenario like calling shotgun? I mean, the guy who says it first is the winner…?
October 16th, 2007 at 1:34 pmShe must be bucking for an early retirement.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmTypical libtard, basing her opinions on first-hand experience rather than Bushco propaganda and wishful thinking.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmGet ready to be ’swift boated’ or ‘dixie chicked’.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:36 pmIs the “proclaim victory†scenario like calling shotgun? I mean, the guy who says it first is the winner…?
Comment by loretta — October 16, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Or, in the immortal words of Father Junipero Serra…
Mission Accomplished!
October 16th, 2007 at 1:37 pmPoor trolls: wrong.all.the.time
October 16th, 2007 at 1:38 pmAnd the LUNATICS in the republicon party want to start another war with Iran?
FREAKS!
October 16th, 2007 at 1:48 pmHer point on the ’sanitization’ of the war should be shouted from the rooftops!
Where are the pictures of the coffins, the bloody remains of soldiers who’ve been blown limb from limb? I know the argument about the troop’s privacy, but we had some great combat photographers in Nam who showed the nation the stark terror of jungle combat, and that helped bring it home to those sitting in front of their tvs…
Just sayin…
October 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pmCouple Ms. Logan’s comments with the article by 12 former U. S. Army captains in today’s Washington Post and the true picture of the debacle in Iraq becomes abundantly clear.
These soldiers are right: “America, it’s time to make a choice.”
October 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pmLet the smearing commence in 5..4..3..2..1:
“This is from the dan rather-not-research network, what did you expect her to say?”
“Where is her american flag lapel pin?”
“I heard she has an illegitimate black baby!”
October 16th, 2007 at 1:50 pmIs Iraq worse than hell-on-earth? I mean, that’s all Bush does: create multiple Hells-on-earth… Iraq, Afghanistan, New Orleans…
Everything Bush touches turns to shit…
He’s got the unmagic touch…
October 16th, 2007 at 1:53 pmWhat’s she doing on Leno instead of Letterman? Can’t she be free to speak on her own network? After all — CBS isn’t Fox News. Yet.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:55 pmBut But But But But……
October 16th, 2007 at 2:00 pmExley said everything is going so well in Iraq.
Independent journalist Dahr Jamail said essentially the same thing on Democracy Now! yesterday, pointing out that the situation in Iraq is never going to improve as long as the United States military continues to foolishly remain in Iraq, whose presence there becomes the best recruiting tool for the terrorists.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:03 pmwhat just because you see things with your own eyes… had fist hand experiance we’re supposed to belive you lady?! I’m not sure what this whole ‘reality’ thing you’re trying to shove down the thorats of America is but we aint buying it sister!!
whew!
October 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pmLara Logan is an excellent reporter, we’re lucky to have her. She has guts and a calm ferocity about her that makes her reports extremely compelling. I dearly hope that she is valued at CBS and that the top brass is not pressured to tone down her reports. She is a valuable asset for the truth.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pmDRxJ; With a name like Exlax, you just know he’s full of it. (:-D)
October 16th, 2007 at 2:08 pmOT, but from Thinkfast, it turns out Randi Rhodes was not mugged
http://www.nydailynews.com/ news/ 2007/ 10/ 16/ 2007-10-16_air_america_host_randi_rhodes_wasnt_mugg.html
according to her lawyer. So Buckie Boy, I assume you’ll want to apologize for accusing right wing “scum” for being responsible…..
October 16th, 2007 at 2:09 pmUnfortunately, for every Lara Logan, there’s a Monica Crowley bemoaning that the MSM never reports any of the “good news”.
Hey, I could use some good news. I don’t mind hearing good news. I bet other people could use good news, too. Maybe it isn’t that the MSM is deliberately squelching good news, it might be that there just isn’t a whole lot of it coming out of Iraq?
October 16th, 2007 at 2:12 pmKeltoi sez:
If you know it’s offtopic, Keltoi, why are you posting it here?
After all, it’s not as if you couldn’t post it on the ThinkFast thread where it belongs, since you’ve already done that.
Are you this desperate for validation?
October 16th, 2007 at 2:13 pmmissmolly sez:
But what about all those schools that were painted? No one ever mentions the schools! ^_^
October 16th, 2007 at 2:13 pmOT, but from Thinkfast, it turns out Randi Rhodes was not mugged
Comment by Keltoi — October 16, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
I’m grateful she wasn’t mugged, but sorry she fell and hurt herself. Hopefully she’ll be back on the air soon.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:14 pmIs there any reason why we are not seeing the bodies of our servicemen? Is there some kind of agreement that the news outlets would be denied access if they were shown?
October 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pmWhat kind of freedom of the press do we have when even photos of flag draped caskets are off limits?
During the Vietnam conflict, it was the powerful images of war coming through the television sets that helped turn the American public opinion against the war.
What is wrong with telling, or showing the truth?
Art sez:
I think you just answered your own question.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:15 pmIf you know it’s offtopic, Keltoi, why are you posting it here?
After all, it’s not as if you couldn’t post it on the ThinkFast thread where it belongs, since you’ve already done that.
Are you this desperate for validation?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 2:13 pm
C’mon, TPM — be fair. You KNOW that our attention spans are such that nobody is reading the ThinkFast thread anymore. If you want anything to be read, you have to post it in a new thread.
I know that TP has the number of posts on each thread before you open them up, but it would be really convenient if we could also see the time of the last post in the thread. This way, we can see which threads are still being posted in and which ones are completely dead.
Even better, have the post numbers and times in bold (for those of us who are logged in) on threads where there has been activity since we were last there.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmThe situation in Iraq is going about as well as our National Debt.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmDebt:
Billions owed. No plan on repayment.
Iraq:
Tens of Thousands dead. No plan on redeployment.
Keltoi sez:
I can disprove that statement by naming two people off the top of my head…me and you. If you really thought that, why did you bother to post in the ThinkFast thread?
October 16th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI think Ms Logan may have the quote of the war in that video…
‘Holy Shit! Is this really happening?’
October 16th, 2007 at 2:23 pmWhat is wrong with telling, or showing the truth?
Comment by Art — October 16, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
NOTHING is wrong with telling the truth. However, the truth would be ruinous for this administration, as you well know. Flag-draped coffins don’t fit the propaganda, so the WH ordered “no pictures.”
We eventually saw pictures taken by a woman who defied the order. She was smeared as a traitor by the right-wing noise machine.
You would think the American people would know the difference between how a democracy operates and how a dictatorship operates — and get a clue.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pmKeltoi sez:
C’mon, TPM — be fair. You KNOW that our attention spans are such that nobody is reading the ThinkFast thread anymore.
I can disprove that statement by naming two people off the top of my head…me and you. If you really thought that, why did you bother to post in the ThinkFast thread?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
Keltoi didn’t say that — I did!
October 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pmSo Buckie Boy, I assume you’ll want to apologize for accusing right wing “scum†for being responsible…..
Comment by Keltoi — October 16, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
Off topic trolling! No legitimate argument so you change the subject, pathetic. Please report this type of abuse people.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:28 pmDRxJ,
Unfortunately for Ms. Logan (of the notoriously liberal CBS), the facts simply do not support her assertions:
“The evidence of a drop in violence in Iraq is becoming hard to dispute.
Sunday, October 14, 2007; B06
The Washington Post
NEWS COVERAGE and debate about Iraq during the past couple of weeks have centered on the alleged abuses of private security firms like Blackwater USA. Getting such firms into a legal regime is vital, as we’ve said. But meanwhile, some seemingly important facts about the main subject of discussion last month — whether there has been a decrease in violence in Iraq — have gotten relatively little attention. A congressional study and several news stories in September questioned reports by the U.S. military that casualties were down. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), challenging the testimony of Gen. David H. Petraeus, asserted that “civilian deaths have risen” during this year’s surge of American forces.
A month later, there isn’t much room for such debate, at least about the latest figures. In September, Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006, according to the Web site icasualties.org. The Iraqi Health Ministry and the Associated Press reported similar results. U.S. soldiers killed in action numbered 43 — down 43 percent from August and 64 percent from May, which had the highest monthly figure so far this year. The American combat death total was the lowest since July 2006 and was one of the five lowest monthly counts since the insurgency in Iraq took off in April 2004.
During the first 12 days of October the death rates of Iraqis and Americans fell still further. So far during the Muslim month of Ramadan, which began Sept. 13 and ends this weekend, 36 U.S. soldiers have been reported as killed in hostile actions. That is remarkable given that the surge has deployed more American troops in more dangerous places and that in the past al-Qaeda has staged major offensives during Ramadan. Last year, at least 97 American troops died in combat during Ramadan. Al-Qaeda tried to step up attacks this year, U.S. commanders say — so far, with stunningly little success.”
Thus, while ThinkProgress may want to make national security decisions based on Jay Leno interviews, the facts on the ground in Iraq prove undeniably that we are making progress there and as was reported today and yesterday close to crippling Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Nice try though….
October 16th, 2007 at 2:28 pmmissmolly sez:
Whoops! Sorry, missmolly…my bad.
However, my point is still valid.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmHere is the full link to The Washington Post piece:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2007/ 10/ 13/ AR2007101301071_pf.html
October 16th, 2007 at 2:29 pmInteresting. I never thought of Logan’s embedded work for CBS as being especially critical, as she has, for example, in the past helped the administration hold out Tal Afar as “a model for how to fight and win the rest of the war.†She must be under a lot of pressure during her regular job to paint over that “much worse picture.”
October 16th, 2007 at 2:31 pmExley sez:
Wow…what a scream. Exley characterizes CBS as “notoriously liberal”, and then (apparently in attempt to provide support for this assertion) references WaPo, the paper that gave the MoveOn.org Petraeus ad three out of a possible four “Pinocchios”, right after admitting that the facts cited in the ad are over 75% accurate, and managing to dispute only a few non-quantifiable assertions like “everyone knows the surge is a failure”.
Thanks, Exley…I needed that laugh.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pmThe Bush administration, the Pentagon and the Defense Department have NO desire to claim victory over AQI, much less Al Quieda. It was the Washington Post trying to squeeze this information out of those leading the fight in Iraq, because the improvement in the numbers are too good to ignore, and should be reported.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:38 pmExley Exley Exley.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:39 pmOnly you could take a 1 month trend to offer proof of the positives of the surge.
When did the surge begin?
February.
From the New York Times:
While the number of American troops killed in September was the lowest monthly total seen this year, the fatality total through the first nine months of the year, 801, is more than 200 higher than what had been recorded through that period in any year since the war began.
And one has to factor in the religious holiday of Ramadan which started September 17th.
Exley, only you could “celebrate” the lower death toll of civilians and troops for this occupation (Mission Accomplished, remember?)
People are still dying, and being maimed. Children are being left fatherless (and motherless).
Remember that the next time you post “improvements” of the surge!
Oh, and here is snippet of a CNN interview with Michael Yon, a journalist who is actually in Iraq (as opposed to Southern California on The Tonight Show):
“I’ve seen a very serious change in the seas. I’m not predicting this but I would not be at all surprised to see a precipitous drop in violence in Iraq in general over the next six months or so. I just would not be surprised based on the things that I’m seeing in Nineveh province, out in Anbar, up in Baghdad and out in Diyala and out here. Will it last, nobody knows, but it’s certainly, the indicators are starting to look better and better.”
Yon later added via e-mail:
“Al Qaeda is in trouble in Iraq. The civil war that was growing in 2005, and then began erupting in 2006, is now on the decline. I was extremely worried during 2006 that al Qaeda would succeed by engulfing Iraq in civil war, but the Iraqis I speak with in various provinces are now smart about what AQI was up to. AQI tactics are backfiring — hugely backfiring. Strangely, al Qaeda, who nearly caused a complete meltdown, is becoming helpful in uniting Iraq.”
Sorry, folks…I know all this good news out of Iraq is depressing you, but the trends indicating success are too powerful to ignore. Now all we need to do is keep the pressure on AQI and destroy them as a force in Iraq.
AQI is still dangerous, but they are losing ground month by month
October 16th, 2007 at 2:42 pmLara Logan has been an excellent reporter out there. I hate to say it, but her babe-itude has helped her. It disarms people, and the troops will let her go out and see things just to have her around, and they make sure she gets back in one piece.
My one problem with her coverage was the softball she did with Eric Prince this Sunday, but I suspect job pressures, as we see the once-great 60 Minutes turning into Sumner Redstone’s National Amusement Funhouse.
Oh, and just because the WaPo says something these days still doesn’t make it true, as their editorial pages have turned into the WSJ South.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:44 pmOh, DRxJ, I certainly did factor in Ramadan….And the fact that deaths have dropped so precipitously during Ramadan is an indication of our recent successes. As The Washington Post points out:
“During the first 12 days of October the death rates of Iraqis and Americans fell still further. So far during the Muslim month of Ramadan, which began Sept. 13 and ends this weekend, 36 U.S. soldiers have been reported as killed in hostile actions. That is remarkable given that the surge has deployed more American troops in more dangerous places and that in the past al-Qaeda has staged major offensives during Ramadan. Last year, at least 97 American troops died in combat during Ramadan. Al-Qaeda tried to step up attacks this year, U.S. commanders say — so far, with stunningly little success.â€
October 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pmInteresting. I never thought of Logan’s embedded work for CBS as being especially critical, as she has, for example, in the past helped the administration hold out Tal Afar as “a model for how to fight and win the rest of the war.†She must be under a lot of pressure during her regular job to paint over that “much worse picture.â€
Comment by Owl — October 16, 2007 @ 2:31 pm
If you remember, the Tal Afar campaign was highly successful initially. There was one U.S. soldier for every 40 civilians. That ratio would have been a model for how to fight the war as a whole, but that would have required about 380,000 troops in Baghdad alone, which the administration was not willing to do because they would not have been able to perpetuate the conflict and open up the road to their final destination: Iran.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:46 pmMy one problem with her coverage was the softball she did with Eric Prince this Sunday, but I suspect job pressures, as we see the once-great 60 Minutes turning into Sumner Redstone’s National Amusement Funhouse.
Oh, and just because the WaPo says something these days still doesn’t make it true, as their editorial pages have turned into the WSJ South.
Comment by Swift2001 — October 16, 2007 @ 2:44 pm
I totally agree, the Erik Prince piece was a huge softball. However, they interviewed him just over a week before that show aired. I don’t think they had enough time to do a lot of investigating and present any counter-argument.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pmAnd the LUNATICS in the republicon party want to start another war with Iran?
FREAKS!
Comment by FunMe
And look what Russia has to say about that
http://news.yahoo.com/ s/ ap/ 20071016/ ap_on_re_mi_ea/ iran_russia
October 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pmAnd yes, DRxJ, “People are still dying, and being maimed. Children are being left fatherless (and motherless).” That is undeniable…What is also undeniable is that that is happening at vastly reduced rates thanks to the surge and the development of alliances with Sunni chieftains against Al Qaeda…
And if we keep up the pressure, those rates will drop still further…
If, on the other hand, we follow your recommendations and withdraw, leaving AQI in place, you will see far more deaths in Iraq.
To paraphrase you, DRxJ, remember that the next time you advocate surrendering to Al Qaeda in Iraq.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:50 pmDRxJ, remember that the next time you advocate surrendering to Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Comment by Exley — October 16, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
Remember this, the one thing I will not put up with is anyone uttering statements that I did not make.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pmShow me where I ever…EVER advocated surrending to Al Qaeda!
I just don’t consider deaths of our troops or civilians good news.
You do.
There is a difference.
Sorry, folks…I know all this good news out of Iraq is depressing you, but the trends indicating success are too powerful to ignore. Now all we need to do is keep the pressure on AQI and destroy them as a force in Iraq.
AQI is still dangerous, but they are losing ground month by month
Comment by Exley — October 16, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
The only good news that could come out of iraq is news of the troops coming home. Considering how we got into this mess (lies, deceit, fabrications), one death is one too many. The so called “AQI” is a product of the invasion of iraq by your supreme court-appointed leaders, i.e. dick & dumbass. we are there for no good reason and thousands have died as a result. that’s depressing.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:54 pmExley at #42 trumpets the [alleged] fact that “there is good news out of Iraq” and that “trends indicating success are too powerful to ignore.” What he neglects to mention is that this news is coming from a strictly American point of view. There are an astounding 2 million Iraqis who have been displaced due to the war/occupation and 2 million more who have become refugees from their own country and, as a result, have had to flee to countries like Jordan and Syria with only the clothes on their back. In addition, one million and some eight five thousand Iraqis have been killed due to the illegal invasion of their country by the belligerent presence of the U.S. military. It is quite doubtful if Exley would find too many Iraqis who would agree with him that the occupation and brutalization of their country has been a “success. “
October 16th, 2007 at 2:57 pmDRxJ,
You know I respect you and we have gotten along, but what else can one call withdrawing from Iraq before AQI is defeated?
I did not say you wanted to surrender to AQ as a whole, such as in Afghanistan, but by advocating a precipitous withdrawal from Iraq before AQI is completely defeated means a de facto surrender to (or at the very least, a retreat from) AQ in Iraq.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:58 pmExley, please provide specific examples in this thread where I advocated surrendering to AQI.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:02 pmYou can’t.
My point is that I do not consider the downward trend of American and Iraqi civilian casualties as “good news”.
As long as there are deaths and tragedies in this occupation, it is never “good”.
Test
October 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pmDRxJ,
If I misinterpreted your comments and you, in fact, do not advocate an immediate withdrawal from Iraq and support continuing to battle AQI, then I sincerely apologize.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:06 pmyou, in fact, do not advocate an immediate withdrawal from Iraq and support continuing to battle AQI, then I sincerely apologize.
Comment by Exley — October 16, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
I never said that either.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pmI have never stated my position on Iraq. Occasionally I’ll end a post with “Bring our brave men and women home safely…NOW”, but who doesn’t want that for our troops. But that is a discussion for another time (thread).
I’ll re-iterate my point:
I find absolutely no good news in the deaths of our troops and Iraqi civilians, no matter how significant the decline.
I wonder if the family who lost their son this summer (after the surge began) 10 miles from where I live considers this good news?
I think we are getting into semantics here, DRxJ….Let’s just say the news and trends indicate that the military situation in Iraq is improving.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pmAQI is not AQ Saudia Arabia - AQI are just really pissed off Iraqi’s that are looking for support from AQ SA. The Iraqi people are getting fed up with them are now starting to shoot them also, which translates into “just another segment of a Civil War”.
It is all lies that come out of the White (dark) House and the Repukian Fascist Brownshirt Lockstep Lemmings Chickenhawks.
Buck Fush
October 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmright wing “scum†for being responsible…..
Comment by Keltoi
So the first reports were wrong…that still doesn’t make the ReighWing Scum…like you.
Buck Fush
October 16th, 2007 at 3:37 pmBuckie,
Please read my relevant post in the ThinkFast thread before you concede to Keltoi…he’s not giving you the whole story.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:39 pmRight
The “surge” is a success is it?
Okay, let’s review
The bulk of the US troops sent in for this escalation were deployed in Baghdad
Unlike his previous non-announced visits to Iraq, Baghdad, specifically, this time W did NOT visit Baghdad
Nor did W tour Anbar province, the place where the “surge” was supposedly so successful, instead, W cowered in a base with a 13 mile perimeter
Oh yeah, that “surge” sure made things safer, after all, why else would W avoid the place he deployed most of the escalation other than it was SAFER than before?
I’ll believe things are changing for the better in Iraq when
W announces beforehand that he’s going to Iraq
W gives a speech in the Iraq parliament
W holds a globally televised press conference with Iraqi reporters only
There are NO suicide or car bombings, kinda like there weren’t any during the decades various US Administrations propped up Saddam Hussein’s regime militarily, financially and commercially
While I’m sure W has the eternal gratitude of all those suicide and car bombers so ruthlessly suppressed by the Hussein regime, I’m guessing the victims of those “liberated” bombers probably aren’t as thrilled as the Administration is about all this “freedom” W claims to have brought about in Iraq
October 16th, 2007 at 3:47 pmAQI is still dangerous, but they are losing ground month by month
Comment by Exley — October 16, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
Who says that propaganda doesn’t work? Witness the results when a weak mind is subjected to it. AQI makes up 5-7 percent of the total number of insurgents yet, with a good dosis of propaganda, some people are convinced that their presence is much larger than it actually is and that defeating them will solve all the problems in Iraq. Of course, it only works on weak or defective minds!
October 16th, 2007 at 4:12 pmBuckie,
Please read my relevant post in the ThinkFast thread before you concede to Keltoi…he’s not giving you the whole story.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 3:39 pm
Buckie,
Please read the story at the top of the thread where TP has crossed out “mugged” and replaced it with “not mugged”.
Also,
>>So the first reports were wrong…that still doesn’t make the ReighWing Scum…like you.
Buck Fush
Comment by Buckie Boy — October 16, 2007 @ 3:37 pm
I think you are trying to do something really intelligent like make an ad hominem personal attack on me, but you seem to have muffed it…
October 16th, 2007 at 4:23 pmI’m not going to go in depth on this, but I was listening to the founder of OTAK Engineers, who is an Iraqi immigrant to the US, and still has family over there. He is in Iraq regularly as they have recently opened their 2nd branch office in country.
If he is to be believed at all, the mainstream press is only telling part of the story. Life in-country is far better than it has been since about 1957, and much more stable than what Americans are hearing here.
You obviously don’t believe the official line, but according to him, the media line is even less accurate. That is, unless you don’t believe a native Iraqi.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pmthe Tal Afar campaign was highly successful initially. There was one U.S. soldier for every 40 civilians. That ratio would have been a model for how to fight the war as a whole
That presumes it is America’s right to “fight the war as a whole”. Sure, “we” can find this or that tactic to come up with some kind of self-defined “success” from “our” point of view. It’s beside the point for the Iraqis, who have a million dead and four million displaced, isn’t it? It’s an unmitigated disaster for them. Hell, Logan describes for Leno how the US has come up with the tactic in Anbar of embracing and arming the former “enemy”. Sure, our “success” has followed, and sure, casualty rates have temporarily been reduced. But at what cost? Which Iraqis will pay? How will US troops pay in the long run? It’s long since time for the US to militarily be trying to reshape Iraq after its abject political failure.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:31 pmSo now correspondents are our experts!
Do you libs realize how foolish you are sounding? Almost like asking Olbermann to report the news—FACTUALLY - without making up stories!
October 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pm65.
Comment by Owl — October 16, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
I don’t dispute anything you say here. I was only explaining why Tal Afar was viewed as a model counterinsurgency campaign. As for it not being our right to “fight the war as a whole,” we are in total agreement. It is an illegal war, but once we were there, we owed it to the Iraqis to apply successful tactics everywhere, not just Tal Afar. But this war was not about the Iraqi people from the beginning, it was about privatizing oil and and perpetuating a $620 billion defense budget.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:55 pmArt sez:
During the Vietnam conflict, it was the powerful images of war coming through the television sets that helped turn the American public opinion against the war.
What is wrong with telling, or showing the truth?
I think you just answered your own question.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
…but what is stopping the networks or cable news stations from showing the truth? Are they that much of a puppet of the administration?
October 16th, 2007 at 7:00 pm…But this war was not about the Iraqi people from the beginning, it was about privatizing oil….
Comment by STPdem — October 16, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Then why has that not been done? We could have easily and simply marched in and turned the wells over to Halliburton.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:38 pm…but what is stopping the networks or cable news stations from showing the truth? Are they that much of a puppet of the administration?
Comment by ArtZ — October 16, 2007 @ 7:00 pm
Could it be that they are OPPOSED to this administration? I remember that they (the news media) were mildly opposed to Viet Nam under Lyndon Johnson, turning to very opposed under Nixon. We were winning in the field then, but losing in the news at home. This part looks the same now.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:45 pmThen why has that not been done? We could have easily and simply marched in and turned the wells over to Halliburton.
Comment by richg — October 16, 2007 @ 7:38 pm
Not with regular bombings of pipelines.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:03 pmThis lady and Michael Ware are the only two reporters telling the truth about the war. The rest are puppets of the cowards in the White House who love this war for the profits of the military industrial complex and oil companies…and actually think they can use war to stay in office. I have news for them.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:56 pmDuring Vietnam it was everyday occurrence to watch the 6 PM news and see the dead and wounded. When was the last time you saw a dead soldier in a body bag or casket on tv? The cowards in the administration, all of whom watched the 6 PM news during Vietnam and never served in the war, learned a lesson, hide the truth from the people and continue the war for the profits of the military industrial complex and oil companies.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:04 pmI remember that they (the news media) were mildly opposed to Viet Nam under Lyndon Johnson, turning to very opposed under Nixon. We were winning in the field then, but losing in the news at home. This part looks the same now.
Comment by richg
Not according to Lara Logan. It seems we are actually losing in the field. However, it is even difficult to find out ANY new about what is going on over there on a daily basis. Why not simply tell the story, good or bad?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:30 pmAnd I don’t mean you have to be “fair and balanced” and try to manufacture “good” stories to offset the “bad”, or vice versa. I mean just report the news.
And I don’t mean you have to be “fair and balanced†and try to manufacture “good†stories to offset the “badâ€, or vice versa. I mean just report the news.
Comment by ArtZ — October 16, 2007 @ 10:30 pm
Boy, that would be good. I think we can agree on that.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:57 pmOh, and here is snippet of a CNN interview with Michael Yon, a journalist who is actually in Iraq (as opposed to Southern California on The Tonight Show):
Comment by Exley — October 16, 2007 @ 2:42 pm
You are more slimy than usual today.
First you try to put words in DRxJ’s mouth, even repeating your misrepresentation (”if you do not in fact…”), and then you try to call Lara Logan’s work into question.
Fact is, Exley, Ms. Logan does report from Iraq. You can watch her wearing a bullet proof vest as she walks on a street somewhere in Iraq (which is far more than you will ever do) here. You can also catch more footage of her reporting from Iraq here, and here.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your delusions.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:31 pmLara,
Too little to late. This is “BUSH’S WAR.” That would be George W. Bush’s war. No way that you can distance yourself from this monster now. No way. It’s yours. Own it.
October 17th, 2007 at 12:32 amExley by your sources what percentage of insurgents does AQI account for?
Are you bothered at all by the prospect of arming other insturgents to fight AQI with only thier word they won’t later turn thier guns on us or the central government? What exactly is it about these people that makes you beleive they can be trusted?… do you have any sort of proof of thier trustworthiness or reliability?
Also, do you wonder if perphaps our bribing, from 75 million dollars to one of saddam’s former goons who promptly got dispatched by one of his own henchman, (who AQI outbid us on,) to a cool 1500 $ for a sunni to marry a shia, is playing any part in pacifying some areas? If so, are you concerned at all, what will happen when american taxpayers stop paying iraqis to play nice? Can you point to ANY political progress, and can you point to ANYONE in charge of anything in iraq who ever claimed that the “surge” was anything but an attempt to buy time for the political reconciliation which as yet to show any single spark of progress?
Also, how do you propose we stop iran and shia islam from gaining power in IRaq? Before you say Iranian idealogy or SHia theocracy is “extremism”, I urge you to look at that region and then try to insist with a straight face that these idealogies are anything but the popular norm. How well have secular parties fared in recent Iraqi elections?
Also, can you please show us some information about how exactly one becomes a member of AQI, and how we can use that information to distinguish people its ok for us to bribe into not attacking us from people who its NOT ok for us to bribe not to attack us?
Because from what I gather, your logic is its ok to pay some terrorists not to attack us, but its not ok to even negotiate with some other terrorists. I’m just trying to figure out how, in your mind, we determine who those people are.. and please dont give me some self-conclusory statement like “if they are in Al-queda”… we need to figure out how to ascertain and determine who is in the AQ and who isnt… unless you think they keep a memebership roster somewhere…
October 17th, 2007 at 1:49 amCould it be that they are OPPOSED to this administration? I remember that they (the news media) were mildly opposed to Viet Nam under Lyndon Johnson, turning to very opposed under Nixon. We were winning in the field then, but losing in the news at home. This part looks the same now.
Comment by richg — October 16, 2007 @ 7:45 pm
Winning in the field? We can see the koolaid is still in your blood stream!
October 17th, 2007 at 1:49 amWinning in the field? We can see the koolaid is still in your blood stream!
Comment by republicans hate facts — October 17, 2007 @ 1:49 am
I can tell by the way you write that you weren’t around then. I was.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:41 amhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=6I420_fPM2E
October 17th, 2007 at 11:32 amI’m not going to go in depth on this, but I was listening to the founder of OTAK Engineers, who is an Iraqi immigrant to the US, and still has family over there. He is in Iraq regularly as they have recently opened their 2nd branch office in country.
If he is to be believed at all, the mainstream press is only telling part of the story. Life in-country is far better than it has been since about 1957, and much more stable than what Americans are hearing here.
You obviously don’t believe the official line, but according to him, the media line is even less accurate. That is, unless you don’t believe a native Iraqi.
Comment by richg — October 16, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
Your OTAK Engineer friend is in the minority if we are to believe the native iraqis!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 2/ shared/ bsp/ hi/ pdfs/ 19_03_07_iraqpollnew.pdf
http://news.bbc.co.uk/ 1/ shared/ bsp/ hi/ pdfs/ 10_09_07_iraqpoll.pdf
October 17th, 2007 at 11:40 amEverytime I see the initials AQI I have to laugh. These are just a bunch of guys who were pissed off that we invaded their country. They have no ties to Bin Laden’s group. They are just defending their country from an occupying force. They got the name because some right-wing tool decided it would be a good PR move.
And for those who say the violence has decreased, do you remember back in September they changed the reporting rules? Killed by a car bomb….doesn’t count. Shot in the front of the head….victim of crime not war violence.
The situation isn’t changing, just the definitions.
October 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am