Soldiers: institute a draft or withdraw from Iraq now.
Soldiers: institute a draft or withdraw from Iraq now.
In the Washington Post today, 12 former Army captains declare that “five years on, Iraq is in shambles,” and that “short” of a military draft, “our best option is to leave Iraq immediately“:
As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we’ve seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it’s like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it’s time to get out. […]
To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.
America, it has been five years. It’s time to make a choice.
The soldiers’ criticism comes just days after Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, the former top commander in Iraq, called the war “a nightmare with no end in sight.”
UPDATE: Ilan at Democracy Arsenal points out that this op-ed did not run in the print version of the Washington Post.
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101 Responses to “Soldiers: institute a draft or withdraw from Iraq now.”
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Reinstate the draft.
Watch how quickly wars would stop.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:48 amWOW, YOU MEAN ACTUALLY MAKE AMERICA FEEL THE IMPACT OF THE WAR?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:50 amWow, the walls are really closing in on Bush, aren’t they? It’s about time someone woke up and started saying something about the untenable position we are in with Iraq. I suspect that most of the officers in Iraq, if they were able to talk freely, would say the same thing. It’s no coincidence that most of the retired Generals are now speaking out against our occupation of Iraq. I can’t think of one retired General who supports our continued existence there.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:51 amAnd the trashing of these “phoney soldiers” in 3…2…1…
October 16th, 2007 at 9:51 amThese (real) soldiers are absolutely correct. It WILL take a draft to make Americans wake up and DEMAND that we withdraw from Iraq. Right now Americans just WANT us to withdraw. That’s not enough for the spineless Democrats to pull the funding.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:54 amNote that none of the former army captains have served in Iraq since the surge…
And when did you serve in Iraq, TCDon?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:55 amNote that none of the former army captains have served in Iraq since the surge
TCDONG
And just like any good soldier, they severed ALL ties to anyone in the military, and instantly buried themselves in a bunker. RIGHT?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amROFLMAO! can you say FRAG?
October 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amDidn’t Bush state in several occasions that we should listen to military people and not politicians in Washington D.C…?!!
Now we do.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amAnd the trashing of these “phoney soldiers†in 3…2…1…
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
And if any of them end up dead in a mysterious auto accident in the next few weeks, I’m going to be really suspicious. Thus far the families of the dead soldiers in that roll over accident have not received any kind of an explanation as to how or why it happened.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:58 amSo that these 12 officers haven’t been in Iraq in the last year or more disqualifies them from speaking? Then explain your chickenhawk friends at Fox news.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:01 amNote that none of the former army captains have served in Iraq since the surge.
Comment by TCDon
Well, perhaps that’s why they feel safe speaking out now. You did notice that most of the retired Generals have been speaking out against our occupation of Iraq, haven’t you? And many of them have not been in Iraq in a couple of years. That certainly doesn’t disqualify them from having an opinion on the subject.
Those retired military have a much more legitimate right to voice an opinion on the occupation of Iraq than you do. You, obviously have not been there. Why is that?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:02 amToo funny. Actual soldiers who have seen action in Iraq aren’t qualified to speak out. You 28%-ers slay me, TCDon.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:05 amClinton did it!
October 16th, 2007 at 10:08 amDid TCDon wet his pants when someone mentioned that he hasn’t been in Iraq?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:08 amTCDon lives in a vacuum. The article is well written. My thanks to the former officers for speaking out
October 16th, 2007 at 10:09 amTCDon, TP provided a link to the article. What’s your beef? Your point is irrelevant.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:18 amWhy do they Hate America and the real soldiers?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:18 amWhy does it matter if they have been there since the surge or not? What is going to be the difference if they were there since the surge as opposed to leaving a llittle before? Really, how is this an argument? Please spell it o ut for me.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:19 amComment by TCDon — October 16, 2007 @ 9:53 am
So you think they can’t speak on Iraq because they were not there for the “surge”?
Geez, the neocon ballwashers are really getting desperate, reaching for all the straw(men)s.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:19 amwaiting for the dumb ass troll to call them “phony captains”.
(tc don came close!)
October 16th, 2007 at 10:20 amwe need a draft that will take OLDER people FIRST, 40 to 30, and nod deferrments
October 16th, 2007 at 10:23 amOh, please start up a draft. PLEASE.
This entire country would grind to a halt.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:24 amTCDon would be Tampachessdon.
Retired military officers have every right as Americans who served to discuss, disagree, disparage or deny our mission in Iraq, including those who agree with Bush.
America became the greatest country in the world by a free discussion of ideas, not some pre-conceived ideology that ‘if you don’t agree with us, you’re not American’ think.
Congrats, Captains, we salute you!
October 16th, 2007 at 10:24 amTCDon acts like these former Army captains tried to hide the details of their service in order to discredit them. They didn’t. It’s right there in the article - and I’m sure they are proud of their service. Don, try to address the points in the op-ed instead of attacking the messengers. Although that seems to be modus operandi for you guys these days because you got nothing else.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:25 amComment by TCDon
Note that this know-it-all fightin keyboardist hasn’t served his country and hasn’t been fighting in Iraq since the “surge” began.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:26 amas queen anne said to her generals upon reporting another battle won in the war of spanish succession: how many more victories can we afford?
we are fighting small groups with home-made weapons and improvised explosive devices: of course we will be victorious again and again militarily.
but the relevance of a military victory is over. iraqis don’t have rudimentary economic, health, and schooling infrastructure. most are unemployed. and there are at least three groups in the country who have no interest in working together. it is a political solution that is necessary not a military one.
pull back into anbar province to protect kuwait; let iran have the south because they do now anyway (and we all know that is was the current administration and military generals that gave it to them).
and send the rest of the troops home. now.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:28 am“Note that none of the former army captains have served in Iraq since the surge. Most haven’t been there in two to four years. Why didn’t TP point that out?”
Comment by TCDon — October 16, 2007 @ 9:53 am
I guess if you can’t refute the main point of the item, then you need to find some technicality to pick at. TP did provide a link to the article, which provided more information. Besides, you don’t need to be serving there right now to point out the obvious.
Even though these former Army captains aren’t serving in Iraq now (and probably wouldn’t have been speaking out if they were still on active duty), I’m sure they are still paying keen attention to what’s going on there. It would be realistic to assume they all have comrades-in-arms there still fighting, whom they keep in touch with.
It was probably obvious to these captains that a draft was needed BEFORE the surge. WHILE they were still on active duty. And if that was the case, why would they think that the surge would somehow alleviate this problem?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:29 amwhoops. appended to wrong article. apologies
October 16th, 2007 at 10:30 amThe US Army is broken. George W. Bush has squandered America’s most precious national defense asset: the threat of effective military action. And for what? To soothe his permanently damaged ego. What a tragedy.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:41 amYes, we need a draft. And it needs to include both men and women. Of all economic classes. No deferments, unless you enter an ROTC program with a mandatory commission upon graduation.
For too long, many Americans have seen service to their country as “something for somebody else to do.” They will call themselves patriots, watch Fox News faithfully, slap yellow ribbon magnets on their SUVs, and cheer the war — comfortable in the knowledge they will never be called upon to put themselves in harm’s way.
Our leaders make decisions to invade other countries knowing it won’t be their children or grandchildren who may die as a result.
Yes, we need a draft. After all, if being an American is such a great thing to be, and if our cause is always noble and just, then nobody would mind contributing their share of service, would they?
OK — here’s what would really happen. A draft would create anti-war protesting that would make the Vietnam era look like a child’s birthday party. But this would be a good thing, too.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:42 amTCDon,
IT IS IRRELEVANT IF THEY HAVE BEEN TO IRAQ SINCE THE SURGE. The stress on the military has been going on for a few years now. Maybe you haven’t noticed the increased deployment time and frequency. Maybe you weren’t aware of the decreased training time in the US. I am an Iraq veteran. I haven’t been there for 2 1/2 years; however, I have been saying that if this occupation is SOOOOO important, which it isn’t, then the whole country needs to sacrifice to be successful.
The real question is WHY ARE YOU AGAINST A DRAFT? Why are you against paying a well trained, accountable soldier $83 a day versus $1000 for a contractor who is making things worse for the military? Why are you against the American citizens sacrificing for a cause that you apparently think is soooo noble?
Again - THE SURGE IS NOT THE ISSUE. Whether the surge is working or not (especially if the surge were working), we should have a draft to have the necessary troop levels in Iraq as well as the necessary troops to handle ANY OTHER THREAT THAT WE MAY ENCOUNTER. You make me sick - your seemingly “innocent” statement is just the kind of cowardice that we see over and over again. Or maybe you are with the President and think that being forced to watch violent images on TV between flipping channels and eating cheesy puffs has already made America sacrifice too much.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:46 amI think we should send all the Illegals to Irag to fight the war. They feel we owe them.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:46 amkoko the talking gorilla sez:
This isn’t about ego.
This isn’t about stupidity.
This isn’t about incompetence.
This is about turning a free nation into an authoritarian police state, and turning a free world into a global hegemony.
The “stupidity” incompetence” and “ego” excuses are just smokescreens, deployed to keep you from looking too closely at the truth.
In that, we are in total agreement.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:47 am[…]
You are the typee of officers I would proudly serve under again for.
[…]
Comment by RemoveBush — October 16, 2007 @ 9:52 am
this reminded me of a caller to RANDI RHODES - the goddess of radio:
he told her that he wanted to re-inlist, but could not do so under
the current “commander in chief”, because of the LIES and
MIS-MANAGEMENT of the services…
it was so touching… i had tears listening to him…
October 16th, 2007 at 10:49 amand tears for all the other troops tangled up in this mess…
so sad…
.
koko the talking gorilla sez:
The US Army is broken. George W. Bush has squandered America’s most precious national defense asset: the threat of effective military action. And for what? To soothe his permanently damaged ego.
This isn’t about ego.
This isn’t about stupidity.
This isn’t about incompetence.
This is about turning a free nation into an authoritarian police state, and turning a free world into a global hegemony.
The “stupidity†incompetence†and “ego†excuses are just smokescreens, deployed to keep you from looking too closely at the truth.
What a tragedy.
In that, we are in total agreement.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 10:47 am
if you for one moment think we are FREEer than we were 8 years ago your a moron of the highest order.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:55 amand by the constitution we are ALL REQUIRED to fight for our country…..were the militia guys.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:56 amOk, sure - then they should get citizenship, free health care for life, respect, and all the protections American workers get.
Or maybe you think we should round them up and force them to fight for free and put any that survive in concentration camps where companies could go to to get all their cheap labor without any consequences.
Way to go - change the topic and focus on the people looking for a better life while excusing those that are dangling the carrot in front of them to come here and work for slave wages. How about sending all the CEOs of companies that use slave labor to fight?
While we are on the topic - let’s send anyone who is cheer leading for this occupation - THAT SEEMS TO MAKE MORE SENSE.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:56 amI think Mary Poplins doesn’t think.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:01 am“While we are on the topic - let’s send anyone who is cheer leading for this occupation - THAT SEEMS TO MAKE MORE SENSE.”
Comment by DanCaveman
Sadly, until the Cheetoh Powered Attack-Keyboard Program is fully funded and operational, these fighting folk cannot be deployed to Iraq. Call your congressman, and ask what the holdup is on the money for this potentially-vital military asset.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:08 amI’m glad those in the military are speaking out about the debacle in Iraq.
For me, however, it is not a matter of “reinstitute the draft OR withdraw.” It is a matter of “Withdraw NOW! PERIOD.”
And, I am convinced that reinstituting the draft would not get us out of Iraq any sooner. It would just give the Criminal-in-Chief more cannon fodder to invade Iran.
So, deep-six the draft idea. Just withdraw our troops safely out of harm’s way NOW!
October 16th, 2007 at 11:17 amHey, TCDon, if you’re so worried that the opinions of these captains is tainted because they haven’t been in Iraq for AT LEAST 10 whole months, then why not go enlist? PROVE THEM WRONG, FIRSTHAND! Show these phony soldiers that their opinions are BS since they haven’t been there since the surge began!
After all, I’m SURE none of them have kept in contact with their mates who are still in Iraq, and they’re not getting any sort of information from their old combat buiddies about the surge not working, but those soldiers are afraid of “a jeep accident” if they make their voices heard while still serving! They’re just faking! Their service doesn’t matter! They’re not real soldiers, we both know that! But since, you know, I have a pilondial cyst (like my hero and savior Rush!) our only solution is for YOU to go to Iraq and show these sissy boys what fighting’s all about! I’m even willing to drive wherever you are to get you to the recruitment station! And I’ll send you CARE packages with DVDs of Stallone movies to keep you in the mood and oatmeal cookies to keep you regular! I’m sure other people will also be glad to help! Just let me know where & when, big guy!
October 16th, 2007 at 11:18 amComment by hterrya — October 16, 2007 @ 11:17 am
I agree wholeheartedly; however, I believe the resistance the will of the majority of Americans will crumble if the supporters realize they actually may have to DO something. In addition, it will motivate those that are against the occupation to become more active. It isn’t enough just to vote. Our country needs us.
My argument is only that if we insist on dragging this out, or if congress is going to delay and filibuster getting us out, we need a draft in the mean time.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:20 am#45 How dare you. I do think and we should round up the Illegals and send them to Iraq and they will not get any benefits. You are an idiot
October 16th, 2007 at 11:20 amI think “Mary Poplins” has been namejacked.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:22 amI do think and we should round up the Illegals and send them to Iraq and they will not get any benefits. You are an idiot
Comment by Mary Poplins — October 16, 2007 @ 11:20 am
Ok. I think you should round up Republicans and send them to Iraq. They support the war, they should fight it. They also should not get any benefits because they don’t believe the govt should give anyone a helping hand.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:23 amWould messers O’Reilly or Limbaugh care to call these majors phony soldiers? To their faces?
I thought not.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:25 amAre these military persons “phony” or was the surge that they were not part of what was phony? Since their dates of service were during the time when we had about the same number of troops in Iraq as we did during the surge, their dates of service are irrelevant.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:25 amslappy magoo’ message to TCDon — October 16, 2007 @ 11:18 am:
“…our only solution is for YOU to go to Iraq and show these sissy boys what fighting’s all about! I’m even willing to drive wherever you are to get you to the recruitment station! And I’ll send you CARE packages with DVDs of Stallone movies to keep you in the mood and oatmeal cookies to keep you regular! I’m sure other people will also be glad to help! Just let me know where & when, big guy!”
Hey, I got the oatmeal cookies baking in the oven for TCDon as I type this.
OK, TCDon, what is the date of your enlistment?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:26 am#52 I totally agree with you. The Republican want this war they should fight it. Also I think the twins of Bush should enlist.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:27 amMary Mary, head all airy how does your logic flow? With sound byte shells and fears of hell from Bushite’s marching in a row.
We would need a draft just to supply the forces needed to “round up” all the illegals. Sounds more like another attempt to ignore your patriotic duty.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:31 amComment by Mary Poplins — October 16, 2007 @ 11:27 am
You missed the second part. I also think Republicans should stop accepting any govt aid. Rep politicians should voluntarily forfeit their govt insurance and buy their own health insurance since they don’t believe in socialized medicine. Stuff like that.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:33 amBob H..how does TripMaster Monkey’s comment “This is about turning a free nation into an authoritarian police state, and turning a free world into a global hegemony.
“The “stupidity†incompetence†and “ego†excuses are just smokescreens, deployed to keep you from looking too closely at the truth.”
equate to your response of:
“if you for one moment think we are FREEer than we were 8 years ago your a moron of the highest order.
Comment by bob h — October 16, 2007 @ 10:55 am
October 16th, 2007 at 11:36 amDraft Limbaugh, use him as a basic training bayonet dummy.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:43 amOk, and they will be the only ones getting the benefits.
Nice to see you avoided all the other responses to your previously ignorant question about the original topic about a draft to strengthen our military.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:45 amI think I’m entitled to point out that none of them served since the surge. -TCDon
Mind pointing to us where you gave pro-war, pro-surge rightwing pundits the same argument. I mean, they’ve NEVER served. So, I’m sure you’ve given them grief about it, right?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:45 amBob H..how does TripMaster Monkey’s comment “This is about turning a free nation into an authoritarian police state, and turning a free world into a global hegemony.
“The “stupidity†incompetence†and “ego†excuses are just smokescreens, deployed to keep you from looking too closely at the truth.â€
equate to your response of:
“if you for one moment think we are FREEer than we were 8 years ago your a moron of the highest order.
Comment by bob h — October 16, 2007 @ 10:55 am
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush — October 16, 2007 @ 11:36 am
a draft does not equal a totalitarian state. ww2 = draft = free nation. think before you post.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:47 amAnd, TCDon, you can speak to the effects of the surge because you served in Iraq since the surge? Quick tour of duty, huh?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:49 amTCDon, can you point out where any of the arguments from the former officers have been solved by the “Surge”?
October 16th, 2007 at 11:53 amComment by impeachcheneythenbush — October 16, 2007 @ 11:36 am
a draft does not equal a totalitarian state. ww2 = draft = free nation. think before you post.
Comment by bob h — October 16, 2007 @ 11:47 am
bob h - Tripmaster Monkey wasn’t referring to the draft. He was talking about the war.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:54 amAre you still pushing this, or have you seen the error in your ways????
impeach-cheney-then-bush
Comment by RemoveBush — October 16, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Frankly, neither one of us are experts on Constitutional law and while you are entitled to your interpretation of the clause regarding pardons, I see it a different way.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:58 am“I think I’m entitled to point out that none of them served since the surge.
Comment by TCDon — October 16, 2007 @ 11:37 amâ€
Give it up. The surge has nothing to do with what these soldiers were talking about. The horrific infrastructure, the widespread corruption in the goverment, the Iraqi police being controlled by militias. All that is happening surge or no surge.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:59 amThe only way a draft will be necessary is if we act like Neville Chamberlain and let the Islamo-Fascists build up their armies, thinking that if we just appease and ignore them, they will leave us alone.
Comment by TCDon — October 16, 2007 @ 11:52 am
People who have actually served & know stuff disagree with you. I know you think that adding “Neville Chamberlain” and “appease” to your post somehow strengthens your argument… it doesn’t. The war in Iraq was supposedly intended to remove Saddam from power and liberate the Iraqis, enabling them to form their own govt. That’s been done. So you’re not appeasing anyone by leaving, except maybe the Iraqis, who you were trying to liberate. So get the phuck out and let them self-govern.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:03 pmWhy are we allowing Pakistan to harbor the ‘armies’ of islame-o faschism?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:09 pmWhy wasn’t al-qaeda in Iraq before the US occupation?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:10 pmWhy aren’t we bombing India, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines?
They are all harboring islame-Oh! Fascist armies.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:11 pmTCDon ….looks and smells like VC Dung
October 16th, 2007 at 12:13 pmOh, please start up a draft. PLEASE.
This entire country would grind to a halt.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 10:24 am
This is a good thing…..?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:14 pmKeltoi sez:
As it would be the only thing that could influence the cabal of criminals that have hijacked our government, yes.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:17 pmwhy do the troops hate the troops?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:18 pmI love those terms people like TCDon use; “islamo-fascist”.
Is that anything like “Corporate-Fascists” (I know, sort of redundant considering the true meaning) of America that support terrorism to protect their assets (see Chiquita Banana)?
Or do ridiculous made up terms only apply to non-American terrorist relationships?
Refusal to face the fact that American corporations and American government intermingling IS the very definition of FASCISM is…well, retarded. Are you retarded TCDon?
Maybe you should ask the Colombians who felt the violence of the terrorist group Chiquita Banana was funding how they feel about Americans, and American corporation interests.
I think they’d call us “Corporate-Fascists,” huh? Just THINK of all those American companies/American government interventions causing pain and suffering to terrorists-in-waiting, and all the fun we’ll have in the future.
We need to mind our own business, and stop acting like America is a golden beacon; you can’t call the kettle black, if you’re the pot.
If we ran America as though it SHOULD be ran, maybe then we could indulge in a little self-righteousness; but as it is not TCDon, “your side” has disgraced, excused, and handicapped this country.
Good job!
October 16th, 2007 at 12:18 pmComment by impeachcheneythenbush — October 16, 2007 @ 11:36 am
a draft does not equal a totalitarian state. ww2 = draft = free nation. think before you post.
Comment by bob h — October 16, 2007 @ 11:47 am
bob h - Tripmaster Monkey wasn’t referring to the draft. He was talking about the war.
He was also talking about the loss of civil liberties and freedoms in the name of national security that has happenned under this administration.
Think before you post.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:22 pmAs it would be the only thing that could influence the cabal of criminals that have hijacked our government, yes.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 12:17 pm
Do you include the Dem congress in that group? I am asking sincerely, you have slammed them often enough in the past….
October 16th, 2007 at 12:24 pmDo you include the Dem congress in that group? I am asking sincerely, you have slammed them often enough in the past….
Comment by Keltoi — October 16, 2007 @ 12:24 pm
What’s the point of that question? Are you just trying to shift the blame from your majority government that got us into this mess? Or are you pointing out that the very slim margin the Dems have can’t stop the obstructionist america-hating Repigs from continuing their path of destruction of the USA?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:28 pmKeltoi sez:
If I have “slammed them often enough in the past”, why do you find it necessary to ask?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:34 pmLefty Patriot sez:
His point in asking that question is to attempt to perpetuate the “Dems vs Repubs” false dichotomy that is at the very heart of what is wrong with this nation.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:35 pmDave C-you are in error. We were not sold on the war to “liberate” the Iraqis and get rid of Saddam. The snow job by the administration to get public support was “weapons of mass destruction’ as confirmed by Paul Wolfowitz as the only agreed selling point.
Remember Condi Rice “we don’t want the smoking gun to be in the form of a mushroom cloud”. And don’t forget Colin Powell’s sham job at the UN security council to justify invasion.
Then there was Donald Rumhead who said ” we know where the WMDs are, around Tikrit, north south, east, and west somewhat.”
October 16th, 2007 at 12:36 pmAs for any new draft- HELL NO I WON’T GO!!!
October 16th, 2007 at 12:37 pmTCDon; since you have never served, I guess that makes you a “phoney patriot”.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:39 pmIf I have “slammed them often enough in the pastâ€, why do you find it necessary to ask?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Sigh. Nevermind.
There isn’t going to be a draft, btw…
October 16th, 2007 at 12:39 pmThere isn’t going to be a draft, btw…
Comment by Keltoi — October 16, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
No, because Bush is a coward, and won’t stand up for his beliefs. The right keeps comparing this illegal, immoral invasion with WW2 and hitler, yet if we had the same reaction then as we’re seeing now, Hitler would have overrun Europe and moved on to conquer the US. It is perfectly clear that this “war” is just another way to enrich the already obscenely rich, and to push the Bush family globalization scheme. it has nothing to do with national defense, except in the way it has weakened our security. Republicans really suck at national security, and have proven that very clearly. the lack of attacks on “the homeland” since Bush’s massive failure of 9/11 is simply acknowledgement of his complete and total surrender to Bin Laden. If you’ve already won, you don’t need to attack again, unless you’re a sociopath like bush, who can’t get enough death and destruction. bush’s nickname for the Iraq war is “Viagra”.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:47 pmKeltoi sez:
Of course there isn’t…for precisely the reason I stated.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:52 pmThere isn’t going to be a draft, btw…
Comment by Keltoi — October 16, 2007 @ 12:39 pm
No there isn’t, because Bush has for some strange reason decided to break the military, while pushing more money for private mercenaries, like Blackwater.
He even vetoed the military men and women’s wage increase, real support forthe troops there, eh koolaide drinker?
October 16th, 2007 at 12:55 pmThere isn’t going to be a draft, btw…
Of course there isn’t…for precisely the reason I stated.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 12:52 p
Impeachment either, btw….
October 16th, 2007 at 1:03 pmKeltoi sez:
What’s your point?
October 16th, 2007 at 1:03 pmComment by Uncle Ho — October 16, 2007 @ 12:36 pm
You’re right. Initially the war was about WMD. I’m talking about the reasons after that, after it became obvious that there were no WMD. At some point the spin was that the U.S. was going to liberate those poor Iraqis from their evil dictator.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:06 pmLook at the surnames of these “captains” again. There are FOUR that start with the letter B and THREE that start with the letter M. Why didn’t TP point that out? What are they hiding? TP should be honest enough to point out that out of 12 captains, a full 7 start with either a B or an M. Out of 26 possible letters in the alphabet?
What are the odds of that??
Come on, these people have absolutely no credibility, I agree with the POS TCDon.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:09 pmImpeachment either, btw….
What’s your point?
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
It goes back to my orginal question about whether the Dems are in your “gang of crooks” basket. Since they won’t approve a draft or impeachment, your only hope to “free” the government is if they win the WH in 08, and was wondering if that would make you happy or not.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:21 pmHey RB,
Calm down. It was sarcasm - I know with the stuff that the right wing comes up with, it is hard to tell; but nanlichi just wrote the same type of thing I was about to write (albeit much funnier). He was pointing out the irrelevance of the “surge” comment. (you can tell from the POS comment if you can’t tell from the tone).
BREEEEAAATH :-)
Peace,
Dan
October 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pmSo because their names don’t fit some different pattern, which YOU think it should, they are not credible????
Comment by RemoveBush — October 16, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
I believe nanlichi was whipping off some brilliant sarcasm. Please see TCDon’s post at #6, and you’ll see it makes sense.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:27 pmI’m trying to point out the HUGE problem with your plan. It will only ALLOW Cheney and the other criminals to escape.
Comment by RemoveBush — October 16, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
First of all, I have no “plan.” Secondly, impeachment alone doesn’t result in removal from office. That takes a conviction by the Senate. Thirdly, neither one of us is an EXPERT on the Constitution. I don’t know why you are so positive that you are the ONLY one that is correct here. I, at least, am not making that claim. You have your opinion; I have mine.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:30 pmRemoveBush,
Sorry, my sarcasm key was stuck.
But surname distribution and surge participation both have the same irrelevance to the captains’ positions. The pinche rightwingers clutch the stupidest and tiniest straws to discredit and smear anyone who dares to say the Emporer is naked.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pmKeltoi sez:
Most of them are, yes…particularly certain Speakers of the House that have unilaterally decreed that “impeachment is off the table”.
First of all, although many Dems and nearly all Repubs have shown themselves to be accessories to this administration’s awful crimes, there are several notable exceptions. Some of those exceptions are currently running for President.
Second, you’re couching the debate in “Dems vs Repubs” terms again. If both alternatives are unacceptable, one must seek other alternatives. I understand that, since we are living in a de facto two-party system, voting for a third party or Independent candidate is akin to “throwing your vote away”, or at the very best, a protest vote. Even so, given the choices that seem to have been foisted upon us by the system and the media (Hillary and Giuliani), I’ll be voting for another candidate just the same.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pmtcdon? tcdon?
October 16th, 2007 at 1:47 pmEven so, given the choices that seem to have been foisted upon us by the system and the media (Hillary and Giuliani), I’ll be voting for another candidate just the same.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 16,
Hm. Yeah, I voted for Perot twice and Nader once, if you can believe that, but I did so in the knowledge it was irrelevant who I voted for, my particular state is not competitive.
Third parties…the last time a Third Party insurgency won the WH the Civil War was the result. Hmmm….
October 16th, 2007 at 1:52 pmKeltoi sez:
“Hmmm”, indeed.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:00 pmDraft = Rich, well connected ChickenHawks still get a way out, “Cheney”, “GW666″= More of the same from the elite.
Draft = Average American ChickenHawks getting upset that their kids are now GW666’s cannon fodder for Oil = End of War.
Buck Fush
October 16th, 2007 at 2:07 pmIf YOU feel that they are not credible, how about providing a little more evidence than just stating an OPINION????? How about some FACTS????
Comment by RemoveBush — October 16, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
Uh nanlichi was being funny and ripping Donny. We are attacking each other because we’re not reading posts correctly.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:18 pmRB, I saw, sorry I about that, delete me from your mind, instructions are no doubt available at the White House.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pmI’ve been saying that for two years. I’m still on active duty and I feel it is my obligation to say it now as I’ve been saying it to my elected representatives.
If you want to continue this war and future wars, turning our Army into an imperial Army you must either 1) conscript people from foreign coutries we are occupying or 2) institute a large full scale draft of American citizens immediately or risk further destruction of the US Army and Marine Corps.
I got back in March after a 14 month deployment in Nineveh and Al Anbar.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:08 pmJason Blindauer, one of the authors of this op-ed, has a fascinating web site called: The National Service Act
http://www.nationalserviceact.com
It’s worth checking out!
October 17th, 2007 at 1:08 am