Plame speaks out.
Plame speaks out.
On Tuesday, outed CIA operative Valerie Plame will release her book, Fair Game — My Life as a Spy, My Betrayal by the White House, marking the first time she will publicly detail the leak scandal. AP previews:
She offers harsh words for President Bush, whom she assails for administration “arrogance and intolerance.” She also said criticism of her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, was a “dress rehearsal” for the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth effort that impugned Sen. John Kerry’s war record during his unsuccessful quest for the presidency in 2004. [...]
Some of the details Plame had planned to offer, including discussion of her CIA career and her job responsibilities, are redacted in the book. Sometimes that means whole pages of blacked-out text. The CIA objected to the publication of this material and Plame lost a court fight to include them. CIA employees have to clear their writings with the agency.
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She should have just included the redacted portions and then if the government sued her and subpoenaed her, she should have ignored the subpoena and given them the finger. That’s what Bush has been doing to Congress for a long time now. Perhaps it’s time for us citizens to do the same. He’s the one that is setting the example.
October 17th, 2007 at 3:56 pmThis should still be a good read — even with the blacked out portions.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:00 pmSadly, bilbo, the government wouldn’t have “sued” her if she had included the redacted portions. Instead, this would have been a criminal violation, and she’d have been arrested and charged with divulging government secrets, and possibly with treason.
You know, just the sort of things Scooter and Cheney were charged with for outing Ms. Plame in the first place. Oh wait…
October 17th, 2007 at 4:01 pmHmmmm, if there are sections redacted… doesn’t that give some sort of credence to the assertion that she was more than just a glorified paper pusher but had access to critical information.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:02 pm#1, the trouble is that ordinary citizens don’t have ‘executive privilage’ to hide behind, and therefore actually suffer consequences for their actions.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:03 pmIf she was not covert, as the
fascist traitorsRepublicans claimed, why would the CIA object to anything being in the book, huh?Just a little, obvious fact that needs to be pointed out here.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI read recently that the crime rate has risen dramatically in the US since Bush became President. Is it any wonder with the example his administration is setting?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pmFor anyone that goes on an on about getting the posts deleted by a website or moans about Google not accepting an ad–that is not censorship: this is. An agency of the federal government has determined what a citizen can and cannot write in a book. Please take all the whining elsewhere. This is the real thing.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:05 pm“Hmmmm, if there are sections redacted… doesn’t that give some sort of credence to the assertion that she was more than just a glorified paper pusher but had access to critical information.”
Comment by raynman
Perhaps it dealt with politically-sensitive intel, instead of military intel?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:08 pmSo, uhhh…is there a centerfold photo too? Hey, I’m just sayin’…
October 17th, 2007 at 4:10 pmGod. I hate these people. I’m so sick of being screwed, being lied to, being patronized and patted on the head by ineffectual posers like Nancy Pelosi…
I WANT THESE THUGS IMPEACHED AND THROWN IN JAIL WHERE THEY BELONG!!!
October 17th, 2007 at 4:16 pmI don’t think it was up to Ms. Plame to include the redacted portions of the book. Seems like the publisher would have some liability too. It’s understandable that they would not have gone against such a ruling.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:17 pmI read recently that the crime rate has risen dramatically in the US since Bush became President. Is it any wonder with the example his administration is setting?
Comment by bilbobaggins
Such a thug mentality we have now and with all this fear war mongering it is no wonder why crime is up. And didn’t most of us immediately suspect Randi Rhode’s fall was a viscious attack from the Cleaners of the Bush crime family?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pmI read recently that the crime rate has risen dramatically in the US since Bush became President. Is it any wonder with the example his administration is setting?
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 17, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
bilbo, you may be overlooking the possibility that the rise in the crime rate is directly traceable to the numbers of Bush administration officials and Republican operatives now serving time.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:19 pmYou know, just the sort of things Scooter and Cheney were charged with for outing Ms. Plame in the first place. Oh wait…
Comment by The Dogfather — October 17, 2007 @ 4:01 pmâ€
First off, Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney were never charged with outing Valerie Plame, so that makes you a liar.
Secondly, if she divulged state secrets in the book, and the publishing company knew they were to be excluded from the book, then jail would be the best place for both Plame, and the folks at the publishing house who knew better.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 17, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Not much at reading comprehension, are you, Bigmouth? The Dogfather’s “Oh’ wait…” clearly implied a pulling up short of his previous statement, as in: “You know, just the sort of things Scooter and Cheney were charged with for outing Ms. Plame in the first place. Oh wait… they weren’t” But, you think you found a way to call a liberal “a liar”, so what’s a small linguistic nuance overlooked?
And your second point is just incoherent.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:29 pmYes, we know, it was Richard Armitage who also worked for the WHite House aka Dick and Bush. So, that stupid line just implicates a different one of the traitors. But they are still traitors and you are a traitor apologist.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:29 pmScooter Libby was indicted, tried, and found guilty because he lied and abstructed justice. He’s a common criminal who was pardoned by an Administration that oprates without any moral or ethical compass.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:31 pmMr. Bigfoot. She was a state secret. That is until Libby, Armitage, Cheney and others blew her cover. More than one person is responsible. And just because no charges have been filed against anyone it doesn’t make the crime of revealing a secret agent any less repugnant.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:33 pmThe right side would stand by and watch our country get devoured by the likes of bush and his criminal enterprise. Why is the worship for this imbecile so powerfull that folks like Bigfoot would destroy our Constitution, country and rule of law? Bigfoot why is having a king better than our 200+ year old republic? Your words seem to indicate that if bush does it (or his cronies), it is not a crime. Is that what you are telling us?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:39 pmI hope we see her book #1 on the NYT list and Lynne Cheney’s book
where it belongs; used as toilet paper.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:41 pmYou know I realllllly hate to defend wingnuts, but the mere possession of information deemed to be too “secret” to be published does not make one a covert agent — which is what Plame claimed to be (and was, according to the CIA). The “conservatives” claim she was not a covert agent, not that she was never in possession of top secret information that would not be allowed to be published.
The CIA itself has already made it abundantly clear that she was an operative, and their refusal to permit publication of certain information about her service is perfectly in line with how they’ve responded to people like John Stockwell and Philip Agee in the past.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:43 pmImpugned? kerry could have proven them wrong IF they were wrong, he couldn’t!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 4:43 pm
Oh, look, it’s michael?
Kerry made the error of not rapidly responding to the claims by the Swiftboaters but everything has been thoroughly refuted by others, at the time of the attacks and for some time afterward. Your inability to keep up with actual information is once again completely obvious.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:45 pmmichael, the Swift boat allegations have been shredded. this book won’t be. The only thing that will be shredded is your dreams of a Permenant Republican Majority.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:46 pmYour words seem to indicate that if bush does it (or his cronies), it is not a crime. Is that what you are telling us?
Comment by StratRat
The Rightard’s view is that if you can’t prove they committed a crime, then they didn’t commit the crime. It doesn’t matter that the reason why you can’t prove it is because they obstructed justice. I keep thinking about how loudly these people would be howling if it was a Democratic administration that had committed the crimes this Republican administration has committed.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:51 pmmichael, enjoy the reading:
http://www.factcheck.org/republican-funded_group_attacks_kerrys_war_record.html
October 17th, 2007 at 4:51 pmPlame was a covert agent. End of discussion on that point. Whether she had “classified or sensitive” information is moot. It does not matter. What matters is that the CIA – you know, her employer – confirmed she was covert in the definition the CIA uses to describe an agents status.
Now we have Michael going back into history telling us about John Kerry. Geez louis Mikkey! Your idiot president is ruining YOUR country and all you can do is squawk about ancient history? Why do you make it so easy for us to slam you? Your not arguing to your friends on the loading dock or the late night farm animal get togethers. Your talking to folks who know stuff. We remember things and can communicate. Try and think through some of your ideas before putting them into writing. It makes me feel sorry for you.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pmValerie Plame should have won The Nobel Piece Prize. Oh, what?
October 17th, 2007 at 4:53 pmAnd that’s why he lost the election!
Comment by michael
No michael, he “lost” the election because the Republican party successfully disenfranchised enough voters in Ohio to allow the state to be awarded to Bush. This has been definitively proven and the fact that Ken Blackwell no longer has a job shows that the people of Ohio were not happy that Blackwell participated in the Republican’s scheme.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:54 pmI keep thinking about how loudly these people would be howling if it was a Democratic administration that had committed the crimes this Republican administration has committed.
Comment by bilbobaggins
The righties impeach over a blow job, but then let our country slide into oblivion on the back of our idiot in chief.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pmIt doesn’t matter that the reason why you can’t prove it is because they obstructed justice.
Comment by bilbobagginsâ€
Really? Give us an example?
Comment by michael
Lying to the grand jury and Fitzgerald. You do remember that Scooter Libby was prosecuted and found guilty of lying and obstruction of justice.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:56 pm1. Someone leaks the call from Darth Vader to the CIA, instructing them to redact.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:57 pm2. Waxman et al investigate the WH involvement with the redactions.
3. Plame gets to re-issue the book without redactions, sales go ballistic, and impeachment proceedings are initiated.
4. We all live happily, putting the worst abomination in American history (i.e. the Bush Cabal) behind us.
Really? Give us an example?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 4:52 pm
After you state the reason a self claimed Navy veteran did not know what a NEC ( Navy Enlisted Classification ) was until I told you.
After that, I start on your other lies, liar
October 17th, 2007 at 4:57 pmSo, just like last night, you are not able to provide one example?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 4:50 pm
People here have provided you examples on every stupid post you have made. It’s too bad your reading comprehension is on the 2nd grade level.
Don’t you just love these stupid trolls who come here and say absurd things and then tell us it’s up to us to prove them wrong? How arrogant can they get. When you make a statement and someone challenges you on it, it’s up to you to provide something to back up what you said, it is not up to the person challenging you to prove you are wrong. That’s what debate is all about.
October 17th, 2007 at 4:59 pmComment by republicans hate factsâ€
One fact?
Comment by michael
You have been given more than one fact michelle. It’s too bad you can’t read or comprehend.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:00 pmNext michael, since you stated before you pay $40,000 in taxes, what is your gross income.
Quickly,quickly, since you should know that off the top of your head.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:01 pmmichael, unlike you, the link I provided does their homework.
Here’s a little information on the link
About FactCheck.org
Our Mission
We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit, “consumer advocate” for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews, and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.
The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.
michael, you are a factless, baseless, fear mongering follower of a fool.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:01 pmBush, the real phony soldier.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:02 pmComment by klevenstein — October 17, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
What a nice dream. If only it would come true. You never know, though. The whistleblowers are coming out of the wood work these days. It’s either that they have finally had enough or that they are no longer scared of Bush since he is basically impotent at this point.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:03 pmdidn’t bring up kerry, Plame did.
Comment by michael
Within the context of THIS DISCUSSION, you brought it up. Again, try and keep up: We remember and we notice. You and your group may have the attention span of a mosquito, but the folks around here at TP have a very good grasp of current events and historical perspectives.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:04 pmwayne I’m still waiting for you to tell me what box number on my DD214 I would find that info in. You did serve didn’t you wayne? If you did you would have your DD214 and would know what box to direct me to. wayne, are you a phony soldier?
Comment by michael
Wow michelle, it sounds like you did a Google search and found a form you could use to challenge Wayne. I have to give you points for being smart enough to do a Google search. But, that’s a all the credit I will give you. You are without a doubt the most pathetic troll on this blog. It’s almost no fun to prove you wrong.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:05 pmwayne I’m still waiting for you to tell me what box number on my DD214 I would find that info in. You did serve didn’t you wayne? If you did you would have your DD214 and would know what box to direct me to. wayne, are you a phony soldier?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
Dumbass, if you have a dd214 you could see it yourself.
What a fool.
Funny, you never knew what an NEC or an MOS was till we told you here on TP
Want me to post the proof of that and embarrass you again idiot?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:08 pmMake sure you all DEFINITELY buying her book!
I predict a best seller.
And the JEALOUS CONservatives can cry me a river.
Living it and loving it!
October 17th, 2007 at 5:11 pm:-)
michael, nor that it matters in your little fairy world, but the Navy investigated these allegations against Kerry and found them baseless and false. The United States Navy. so, you’re wrong, as always, and a little fairy coward, as usual.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:12 pmBe my guest? What does that prove? Once again IF you had a DD214 you could tell me the box number but obviously you can’t!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
sorry, michael, wayne has already destroyed you once; he has no need to destroy you again, since you are nothing but a smudge now.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:15 pmWow! You took the time to find a website that tried to smear the Swifties but you can’t in your own words give us an example?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
The Navy, the US Navy, michelle. You can try to ignore it, but it’s bigger than you. the US Navy backed Kerry up, and dismissed the swiftboat liars, who were nothing but paid traitors, Benedict Arnolds, a bunch of beaten, drunken losers.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:18 pmnotice how little fairy mikey ignores my facts. what a pussy coward.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:19 pmBy the way, whatever happened to Patrick-dumber-than-a-rock? I think he was the only troll who could give michael a run for her money in the stupidest-troll-ever competition. Although michael does remind me a lot of Patrick.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:23 pmI’m sorry, in my world you win an argument when and ONLY when you present facts not insults so typical of you losers!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
well, then, you’d better admit that you’ve been soundly defeated, since this discussion has presented all the facts needed to prove that you are a liar, and the swiftboat liars are unAmerican losers! You lost again! aren’t you tired of being defeated time and time again? you ahve never won a single argument here, because you’re on the wrong side! We’re the American patriots, you defend antiAmerican liars and traitors. You’ll never win; the best you can do is declare victory and run away. I’ll bet this is the only way you get any attention at all; those that are around you must ignore you completely.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:23 pmThey did? Where?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
Do your homework, pussy. You can google a DD214 to fake your service, you can certainly find the facts of the navy’s assessment of the swiftboar liars.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:24 pmmy two cents
reality is that Kerry voted for Bush’s war. You cannot defend that vote and neither could Kerry and throughout his campaign avoided mention of the war. He simply tried to hide it and he was in a corner.
Same with Hillary Clinton. She voted for this frikkin catastrophe, and all group thinkers are ready to just forget about it. She loves that. Forget about the thousands of
American soldiers killed and wounded in the prime years of their lives. Just forgedda bout it. Have you seen pictures of the the little babies, the toddlers, the children bombed into death, or bombed into loss of limb? Have you? Do you know the4 names of the most recently killed, innocents all, or of the most recently killed
Americans, yet the stupid A
mericans will support Hillary
Clinton, whose vote supported this slaughter of human beings , who supported the war, even joined up with McCain to suggest we needed MORE troops in Iraq, until the poll numbers went negtative for Bush, Now she is against it, before she was for it.
People, how could you support a candidate that voted to give this little prick of a frat boy, permission to pursue his fantasies on gaddam lies?
But go ahead. She is the front runner. She has millions upon millions of dollars, with the support of the likes of Murdock and the pharma coporations and she with her vote has been an accomplis to the murder in Iraq.
Vote for the war monger, who was for it before she was against it because–who knows why, because the feminists, turning dumber by the day, want a woman president and are willing to overlook the murderous slaughter to kill in Iraq, even though they also were against the invasion.
Feh–the system is overloaded with “connections” “money donars with lobbying demands upon those they contribute to.
Millions upon millions of dollars, just to win an election, which of course, is riff with power.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:26 pmhow can so much dumb be in one person michael? Facts have been presented and you can’t face them. You can’t handle the truth!
I do find your ignorance funny. Keep on following the fool. Keep on believing the servers of the kool aid. The rest of the country is getting over the fact they were fooled.
Bush still needs a court jester and you definitely fit the suit.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:28 pmWhy did it take kerry over 5 years to get his Honorable Discharge?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Why is that important? He got it, didn’t he? Unlike you, coward.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:28 pmBetween “lefty†and “Republicans hate†I don’t know who is further along in their public school studies based on their childish comments and claims.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
you beat everybody with your homeschooled ignorance and bald-faed lies. your claims are treasoous and antiAmerican, and show how much you hate the USA. good luck with that.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:30 pmCan anyone show evidence that Bush served his duty in Alabama? It’s been way more than five years and still nobody can prove he served. Theres a $10,000 reward for anyone that can place Bush on the base. 10k isn’t chicken feed and yet no takers. Why? Because he never was on the base.
Bush is a phony soldier. michael follows a fool. wake up michael before it’s too late.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:30 pmBetween “lefty†and “Republicans hate†I don’t know who is further along in their public school studies based on their childish comments and claims.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
What childish comments and claims?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:30 pmOh, and you have no proof whatsoever that the swiftboat liars claims were anything but paid lies,politically motivated against a man who received numerous decorations for valor, and risked his life time and again for this country, something you never did. Your shame will follow you wherever you go, and as your pitiful numbers shrink, you of the antiAmerican wingnut brigade will be regarded throughout history as enemies of freedom. enjoy living with that, coward. your lies have no currency among the patriots here.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:33 pmAnd a link to a website that smears the Swifties is NOT proof!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Really? Prove that is isn’t proof, Michael.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:33 pmAnd a link to a website that smears the Swifties is NOT proof!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:32 pm
Prove that those are smears. They are facts, well-researched and proven beyond doubt. you will never face reality and admit that your party and its leadership are craven, murederous nazi wannabes, without the actual courage or brains of the nazis. you are an excellent example of the weak side of America.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:35 pmmichael is a serial troll who kills threads EVERY time he show up. Please do not respond to him directly. All it does is reward him. He will NEVER give any facts or engage in a logical debate.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMichael, which type DD214 do you have?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:35 pmNo I won’t tell you the types, you should know the difference between the types.
I’m sorry, in my world you win an argument when and ONLY when you present facts not insults so typical of you losers!
Comment by michael
Well, then you have lost every argument because you have never shown any facts to back up your assertions.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:36 pmBecause typically you receive your Honorable Discharge about 12 months after your release from inactive duty kerry didn’t receive his until 5 years after his release. Why did it take so long? And why did it only come after Carter granted amnesty?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Prove that what you say is true.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:37 pmBack on topic – I think we should all buy Plame’s book in support of her lost career and to send a clear message to the wingnuts.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:37 pmWell, Michelle, I have invited you to prove what you say is true. Several times. And every time you have failed. Therefore what you say is false. Therefore you are a liar. Q.E.D.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:38 pmWhy did it take so long? And why did it only come after Carter granted amnesty?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Why? And, why is it important? is Kerry the only person in history discharged whose paperwork was delayed? You are trying to make something out of nothing, and you are failing, which is really all you are capable of, like Bush. Failure. Abject, embarrassing, repeated, ignoble failure. the sign of a Republican.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:38 pmAlso see how michael avoids my post at #90?
Because he cannot defend himself against his own stupidity, hahahaha
October 17th, 2007 at 5:39 pmmichael has never once answered a question with anything but another question to throw the subject off-course as he gets caught in another lie. he must be retarded, as his reasoning skills are those of an 8-year-old, at best.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:41 pmI don’t know. It’s at home. What should I look for? Do you know?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
Obviously you don’t.
one hint, there are 2 types.
You should know which one you have.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:41 pmThe worse wound he received was a scratch on his forearm. He never spent one night in a hospital. He received more awards and faster then Audie Murphy!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Prove it, michael.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:42 pmThe worse wound he received was a scratch on his forearm. He never spent one night in a hospital. He received more awards and faster then Audie Murphy!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
Prove that, liar. that’s your swiftboat liar’s talking pionts, debunked by the Navy. You’re pathetic to fall for that treasonous crap. what a simpleton you are.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:42 pmoin the military? I didn’t think so, Coward!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
looking in the mirrornow, michael the liar? talking to yourself, michael the coward? losing it again, michael the fairy?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:44 pmSo michael, by your own words you place a high value on presenting facts and proving things. Yet you haven’t presented any facts, nor have you proved anything. How does it feel to fail your own standards again and again?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:44 pmCompelling comeback!
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
truth always hurts you liars, and your comeback was just terrific! LOL!
October 17th, 2007 at 5:44 pmTimes up michael.
Another one you lose
You don’t even know the type dd214 you have, hilarious.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:45 pmWhere, when did the U.S. Navy debunk the Swifties?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
New York Times, look it up, lazy shit.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:45 pmmichael doesn’t read. He’s been told all he needs to know.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:46 pmhave fun beating michael over the head, have to get back to work, lunchtimes over
October 17th, 2007 at 5:47 pmthe swiftboat liars were completely debunked and destroyed, to the point that only the lunatic that paid them to lie is still anywhere in the public eye. The rest have crawled back into their bottles, never to be seen again. Good riddance to greedy rightwing opportunists with no patriotism.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:47 pmWhere, when did the U.S. Navy debunk the Swifties?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Prove that they didn’t.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:47 pmI don’t believe you! You say that because you have been caught in a lie.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Prove that it is a lie.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:48 pmMichael, I am waiting for you prove something, prove anything. Why can’t you do that?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:49 pmMichael is the best the 24%ers have to offer.
Tell me Michael, are you going to hang in there when you are down to 15%? How low are you willing to go?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pmI don’t believe you! You say that because you have been caught in a lie.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
i don’t care if you believe me, I know that y8ou’re too lazy to look it up. I also know that the navy very publicly defended Kerry’s awards and very publicly called the swifties liars.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:50 pmmichael still hasn’t come up with anything about Kerry’s discharge papers. it’s a red herring, a question raised to try to deflect the facts and a typical repig tactic that is meaningless and empty, like michael.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:51 pmYour own words?
These are my own words: the US Navy debunked the swiftboat liars, and ascertained that Kerry did indeed deserve and earn all of his medals. Those are my words, and the facts as published in the New York Times. how stupid are you?
October 17th, 2007 at 5:53 pmhow stupid are you?
Comment by Lefty Patriot — October 17, 2007 @ 5:53 pm
Very, very stupid.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:55 pmOh, and Bush lied, and continues to lie, every day, every chance he has. he only lies when he’s speaking, though. he lied when he said he was not interested in nation building. he lied about WMD. He lied when he swore to uphold the Constitution. He lied when he said he didn’t want war. He lied when he said he was a uniter. he lied when he said he was a decider. His list of lies is too long to remember; in fact, there are whole books of his lies. His lies even ournumber yours, michael, and that’s a lot of lying.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:57 pmMichael is really too stupid to quantify or describe in any meaningful way. Certainly asking him to evaluate his own stupidity is hopeless.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:57 pmHere’s just one of the many, many examples of documenting the “Swiftboat Veterans for Truth” as liars and fabricators. Michael, the link below is from the Annenberg Center’s factcheck.org, but you can find ample documentation by doing an advanced Google with “debunk” in the top line and “Swiftboat Veterans” in the second line. I’m surprised people are still even arguing about this group. Their leader, John O’Neil is heard on an audio tape released earlier this year bragging to Nixon that he had been in Cambodia. Please remember O’Neil’s claim that John Kerry “couldn’t possibly have been in Cambodia.” O’Neil is either lying right to the President’s face, or he’s lying to us. You choose, Michael.
http://www.factcheck.org/republican-funded_group_attacks_kerrys_war_record.html
October 17th, 2007 at 5:57 pmYou’re all a bunch of dopes. You’re like a bunch of lemmings marching to TP & Media Matters orders. Pathetic that you can never elaborate any of your thoughts and only resort to cursing and insults when someone like me challenges you to back up your rhetoric with some substance. You all sound like products of our failed public school system. The taxpayers got cheated with your educations………………….
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
prove it, fairy. you’ve been buried with facts, and all you can do is curse the darkness. substance has been offered, and you have refused. websites and newspapers have been linked, and you have decided they don’t meet your low standards. you are pathetic, a weak, brainwashed poor excuse for a human, whose citizenship should be stripped and given to a deserving Mexican immigrant, worth far more than you, any day.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:59 pmPathetic that you can never elaborate any of your thoughts and only resort to cursing and insults when someone like me challenges you to back up your rhetoric with some substance.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
Michael, prove that this statement is true. Prove that every comment directed at you on this thread consists solely of cursing and insults. This is a closed system you are dealing with, consisting solely of this one thread, the entirety of which you can view right now in your browser. Now prove it. No excuses.
October 17th, 2007 at 5:59 pmMichael, with nothing more than a public-school education, I was able to easily find legitimate documentation that the “Swiftboat Veterans” were lying and distorting to smear a war veteran for political purposes. What kind of education did you receive and why didn’t it prepare you for simple research?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:00 pmHello? Michael? Any response to the Colonel’s retort?
Hello?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:01 pmhaving said all that, you are my favorite troll to beat up on, because, like the punching bag you are, you keep bouncing back for more, making you and your side look as completely brainless and empty as a punching bag is. very entertaining after a day of hard work and intellectual exercise; beating you to a pulp is just so easy. bye-bye, mikey the lying fairy.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pmMichael, you truly are a pathetic imbecile. I gave you the simplest possible assignment, but you have failed to respond. Frankly, you sound borderline psychotic to me.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pmI’m waiting for the time tested strawman “Kerry threw his medals away!”
So did I.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:03 pmBush, the phony soldier has a faithful follower in michael.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pm“the swiftboat liars were completely debunked and destroyed
Comment by Lefty Patriotâ€
I guess if you say it enough you will begin to believe it? Sort of like Bush lied, Bush lied, Bush lied! We are up to 142 posts and you can’t produce in your own words what Swiftie accusation was debunked! Your own words?
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
The SBVT propaganda smear campaign was financed by Sam Fox, a billionaire and hardline rightwinger. The fact that Fox financed this project was revealed during his Senate confirmation hearings to become US ambassador to Belgium. Although the Senate blocked his confirmation pointing out Fox’s pernicious activities, George Bush appointed Fox over the authority of the Senate during a “Senate recess”. Furthermore, the PR company responsible for the SBVT (and whose bill Fox paid) was Arthur J. Finkelstein and Associates run by Arthur J. Finkelstein, the “dirty-tricks guy for the Republicans”. Finkelstein is best know for his black-propaganda campaigns that are primarily character assassinations or smearing — as the SBVT campaign demonstrates.
Want some more , you GOP/Chimpy rim licking nitwit ?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pmMichael: “Where, when did the U.S. Navy debunk the Swifties?”
The Navy released Kerry’s records and said that Kerry’s account of what happened in a certain firefight was what the record said and that the Swiftboat group’s version was not supported by the record. The Navy also released one of Kerry’s medical reports which verified that Kerry was wounded in action and pointed out that the “Swiftboat veteran” who claimed he treated Kerry did not sign the form, while the Doctor who testified that he DID treat Kerry had signed the form in real time.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pmI think michael has crawled off to brood somewhere.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:04 pmAnd I have this image of poor, poor mikey, kneeling over a bathtub full of lemon lime koolaid, head under and gulping until the whole tub is dry.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:05 pmI agree lefty. He’s like the energizer bunny but instead of going, he keeps coming back. michael is the republican strain of herpes.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:05 pmCol, that’s evidence in your own words and verifiable thru a little research. My God! that’s exactly what michael was looking for.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:06 pmYou’re all a bunch of dopes. You’re like a bunch of lemmings marching to TP & Media Matters orders.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
As opposed to your constant regurgitation of the dog dreck printed over at The Weakly Substandard , The American Sphincter and NewsCrap ?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:07 pm“one hint, there are 2 types.
You should know which one you have.
Comment by Wayneâ€
And I admitted I don’t know but you have yet to admit you don’t know what box number contains the info you are looking for.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:46 pm
one more thing, Dumbass, how can anyone tell you what field the MOS/NEC is in when you cannot even tell us which DD214 type you have?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:08 pmMichael, you complained that nobody was elaborating on their views that the “Swiftboat Veterans” were a bunch of low-down dirty liars. I believe that I have elaborated at length on some of their problems. I’ve offered you an Annenberg Center link. I can give you the link to the article on how the Navy sided with Kerry’s version as well and I think that issue is discussed, in part, at factcheck.org.
My concern is that in the light of massive documentation to the contrary, there are still Americans like you who think the “Swiftboat Veterans” were a legitimate organization and not just a political dirty trick. I’m trying to provide documentation to you. I’m sure you will do the right thing – consider the evidence and allow for the possibility that you might have been misinformed or even manipulated by the people you go to for news.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:10 pmMy concern is that in the light of massive documentation to the contrary, there are still Americans like you who think the “Swiftboat Veterans†were a legitimate organization and not just a political dirty trick. I’m trying to provide documentation to you. I’m sure you will do the right thing – consider the evidence and allow for the possibility that you might have been misinformed or even manipulated by the people you go to for news.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 17, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
You’re either being ironic or you’ve been into the laughing gas, Colonel. Michael? will do none of those things, but will continue to repeat the same inane distortions of fact and demands that other people support their contentions with facts — and then ignore those facts when presented and demand that people support their contentions with facts — and then ignore those facts and demand that people support their contentions with facts . . .
until his fingers get tired and he wanders off for a nap.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:19 pmI don’t believe you! You say that because you have been caught in a lie.
Comment by michael — October 17, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Obviously to everyone here, with anything higher than a room temperature IQ, it is you that has been caught in multiple lies, multiple times, michael.
You have no credibility at all
October 17th, 2007 at 6:31 pmWhy do you even show back here to flaunt your idiocy even more is beyond me.
gummitch, since he hasn’t returned since documented “elaborations” were offered, I guess you’re right, but that begs the question – what the hell is wrong with someone like that? Wouldn’t a sane person take a look at the link and think about the people he’s been listening to who have told him the opposite? Maybe the operative word here is “sane.”
October 17th, 2007 at 6:36 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — October 17, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
The administration couldn’t discredit Joe Wilson with, you know, FACTS. They had to throw his wife’s name around between members of the administration, and they had the duty to this country, to Plame, and to the CIA, to keep her identity a secret, but they didn’t give a damn.
Novak: “I heard that Plame worked in the counterproliferation division of the CIA.”
Rove: “Yeah, I heard that too.”
Bam. Mission Accomplished.
October 17th, 2007 at 6:36 pmMaybe the operative word here is “sane.â€
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 17, 2007 @ 6:36 pm
Sane does not describe michael unless you add the “in” before it =)
October 17th, 2007 at 6:53 pmLet’s keep in mind that Michael and people like him largely get their news from FOX. This thread is about the Plame affair. Fox viewers were largely of a mind that Plame was NOT covert long after the prosecutor, who should have been the last word on any legal details associated with the case said this:
FITZGERALD (5/25/07): “[I]t was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.”
There is no record that FOX news EVER reported that the prosecutor said this. How would people watching FOX know that the prosecutor himself felt Plame was covert if FOX never reported it?
October 17th, 2007 at 6:56 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 17, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
It gets worse.
When the hero of the losers on the “right” , Ronnie Retard , has his own former Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the DOJ , Victoria Toensing , lyingly testify before the House Intelligence Committee during their hearings over Ms Plame’s status being revealed and her cover blown , there is nothing left.
No one from the Republican Party from Ronnie Retard’s era to this day , should ever be trusted or believed in matters of classified information/national security ……………Ever
October 17th, 2007 at 7:15 pmThere is no record that FOX news EVER reported that the prosecutor said this. How would people watching FOX know that the prosecutor himself felt Plame was covert if FOX never reported it?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 17, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
There is rarely any record of FOX reporting factual news that shows evidence against the Republicans at all.
When they report on a crooked Republican, they either neglect stating the affiliation or they “mistakenly” label them as a Democrat, for example.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:38 pmVictoria Toensing should be brought up on charges of lying to congress.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:50 pm“Whole pages blacked out” should put to rest the issue of whether she was covert. Another interesting item would be to know how the blacking out in this book compares with blacking out of other books written by former covert CIA agents. I’m sure we will never know.
October 17th, 2007 at 8:32 pmThank you for your service, Valerie.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:18 pmWe all know what happened to Valerie Plame. We often over look what happened to her husband though, for simply doing what the White House asked of him.
I’m glad she’s decided to talk about that too.
Valerie Plame and Joe Wilson define the word “Patriotâ€.
Its a disgrace what has been done to them because of their dedication to their country.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — October 17, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
Re: the administration requesting more info on the alleged yellowcake deal. I don’t know if anyone else has raised this possibility, but what do you bet that the “players” in the administration…Cheney and Rove…knew exactly who Plame was, and what her job was at the CIA, after Wilson went to Niger but before he finished his investigation.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:26 pmWas everyone else also impressed with her testimony to Congress and how clear and concise she was with details about her ordeal?
Unlike Lurita “I remember there were cookies” Doan.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:28 pmSooner or later, someone in the DOJ will be honorable enough to prosecute Rove, Armitage, their bosses for this single act of treason.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — October 17, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
Maybe after jan 2009.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:07 amAnd sooner or later, if there is a God, someones going to post some photos of her in a bikini.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — October 17, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
lmao, think Bart may be babe-struck, for sure.
That said, She is a beautiful lady.
And yeah, I have to admit also, she is HOT!!
October 18th, 2007 at 12:14 amJoe is a lucky guy.
>You took the time to find a website that tried to smear the Swifties
factcheck.org was cited BY CHENEY in a debate you nincompoop!
do you want to call me a liar or would you care to explain why cheney is citing a site that would “smear the swifties”?
October 18th, 2007 at 6:17 am>Pathetic that you can never elaborate any of your thoughts
pathethic how you can never post a single thought an any thread that involves our allies the turks bombing our allies the kurds or any thread that involves bushies getting canned when they tell the truth… ann and mallkin not delivered you your insane talking points on those subjects yet?
October 18th, 2007 at 6:20 am>I don’t know who is further along in their public school studies
you truly must have very little education if you beleive your destiny is determined by which high school you went to.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:25 am>Where, when did the U.S. Navy debunk the Swifties?
Welcome to micheal’s world, where anyone who says things he agrees with is assumed to be truthful until proven otherwise, and anyone who says things he disagrees with is assumed to be lying unless proven otherwise.
Micheal, if your so quick to boast about how much taxes you pay, why arent you responding to requests for your income.. it is because you dont really know how much someone who claims to be paying 40G in taxes would make..?
October 18th, 2007 at 6:27 amPlame just gave the Bush crime regime its biggest F-U yet
October 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — October 18, 2007 @ 12:07 pm
Plame says she was covert yet you call her a liar.
I imagine she would know about this since she is the one that worked for the CIA and, well, you didn’t.
Care to quote, oh, say one of her superiors or anyone else in the CIA who agree with you?
October 18th, 2007 at 11:31 pm