Leahy Rips Reported Compromise On FISA: Intel Committee Is ‘Caving’ To White House Pressure
Leahy Rips Reported Compromise On FISA: Intel Committee Is ‘Caving’ To White House Pressure
This morning’s New York Times and Washington Post reported that the Senate Intelligence Committee had reached an agreement with the White House on FISA reform legislation. That agreement reportedly “would give telephone carriers legal immunity for any role they played in the National Security Agency’s domestic eavesdropping program approved by President Bush after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.”
At this afternoon’s Judiciary Committee hearings, Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) openly criticized the Intelligence Committee, calling it a “cave” to White House pressure:
I think the fact that [the administration is] bringing so much pressure on the Intelligence Committtee — and if the press is to be believed, the Intelligence Committee is about to cave on this and bring pressure on this committee to immunize past illegal conduct — is because they know that it was illegal conduct.
Watch it:
Leahy indicated the Judiciary Committee will not be so amenable to “immunizing illegal conduct.” Indeed, as Glenn Greenwald notes, federal judge Vaughn Walker ruled against AT&T in Aug. 2006, specifically citing the fact that the company was not operating in “good faith” when it participated in the warrantless wiretapping program. Judge Walker wrote:
AT&T cannot seriously contend that a reasonable entity in its position could have believed that the alleged domestic dragnet was legal.
Greg Sargent reports that Sen. Chris Dodd (D-CT) will “put a hold” on the Senate Intel Committee’s FISA bill because it grants unconditional retroactive immunity to telecom companies. Also, Sens. Dick Durbin (D-IL) and Arlen Specter (R-PA) have indicated their opposition to going along with immunity.
UPDATE: Matt Stoller has more.
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131 Responses to “Leahy Rips Reported Compromise On FISA: Intel Committee Is ‘Caving’ To White House Pressure”
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Dodd put a hold on it. He is asking for support on his site. http://chrisdodd.com/ Go there and leave a message. This time we can use a carrot and not a stick.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:14 pmsounds like someone’s gonna be on the receiving end of a sternly worded letter
October 18th, 2007 at 4:16 pmWell TPer’s. What do think will happen:
1) No immunity for telcoms or;
2) Immunity for telcoms
Indicate your choice, and a prize will go the winner.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:17 pmWhat kind of dirt did Rove dig up on the House Intel Committee members???
October 18th, 2007 at 4:18 pmInquiring minds want to know.
This will bring the people out into the streets and should. If the Dems cave to this pressure, they will be kept out of the white house in 08 by the very people who swept them into office in the midterms.
The pertinent question needs to be: How about the telephone carriers who engaged in this activity “before 911″?? From the reading of what’s published, it does not provide immunity to them from the time Bush took office and began the program to 911. They will still be sued for that.
If Bush and these agencies are absolved of their guilt, then we no longer have any rule of law in this country. We will find ourselves soon slipping into anarchy.
The people had better wake up. I’m going to Chris Dodd’s website right now to make a comment. Come and join me there.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:22 pmArgh! When will the Congress stop kowtowing to a lame duck, 24% approval rating president? What is wrong with these people?
Grow a spine, Congress!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:23 pmI think this is a load of bullshit propaganda from a white house trying to cover it’s own a$$.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:23 pmFrostyCupcake: The dems will be known as the “bendovers” if this occurs.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pmWell, well, some Democrats ( very few ) do seem to have spines.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:24 pmI’m shocked, I tell ya.
//just back from Dodd’s site
October 18th, 2007 at 4:26 pmAmen, Veritas.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:27 pmChris Dodd “has” put a hold on this heinous miscarriage of justice. Go there and thank him. He deserves our thanks. Now let’s watch this Criminal Cabal twist in the wind while people join the ranks of the class action suits against these telecons!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:29 pmChris Dodd’s ante just went up in the minds of countless I’s, that’s for sure.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:29 pmFinally, a patriot with a spine large enough to stand up to this fascist cabal! Chris Dodd needs to be flooded with appreciative email. Get everyone you know to visit his site and leave a comment for him.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:30 pmWhat pressure can the WH put on the Intel Committee?
Oh, wait, of course: Secret Rendition, Torture, Enemy Combatant status, fck a lame duck, they can do about anything. Oops scratch the ‘about’ part.
I can just see them saying “You’ll never see your love-ones again. We have ways…”
October 18th, 2007 at 4:32 pmThe Intel Comm. has been one to go along with Bush in the past.
This is so obviously a CYA ploy for Bush&Co and the telecom companies, why would anyone grant them any form of immunity — just the fact that they ask for it indicates that they KNOW THEY ARE GUILTY.
Innocent people don’t ask for immunity, much less retroactive immunity.
After the failure of the S-CHIP today, if they get away with this, too, there is no hope. The hacking away at the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the American spirit is taking its toll — soon there will be nothing left of our way of life, but what is written in the history books — er, that is, if Bush&Co don’t follow their Orwellian bent and re-write those books, too.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:33 pmComment by Frosty Cupcake :What is wrong with these people?
I suspect they are being blackmailed.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:34 pmYup, weird. I thought some vortex had opened, Twilight Zone craziness.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:37 pmWe need flags, banners, and bumper stickers on every car, household in this country stating “NO IMMUNITY TO TELECOMS”. If they were twisted enough to fall for Bush’s promises in the first place to violate the laws and constitution of this country, they deserve to pay the price.
No sympathy for any of them. It was their choice. After all, QWEST refused to spy and so they all could have.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:39 pmAPEC: “I suspect they are being blackmailed.”
You know, at any other time I would have dismissed this as conspiratorial nonsense, but with these autocrats in our government today, you may well be right. Who knows? Anyone OK with torture and secret prisons certainly isn’t above blackmail.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pmRemoveBush: Great idea. Contacting the ACLU is another good one. Be sure to visit Chris Dodd’s website and thank him, too.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:40 pmI think we now know whether or not the Intel Committee actually received information about torture (which they’ve denied repeatedly)…. and now the White House is using that fact to blackmail the committee.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:41 pmFrosty Cupcake: Why do you think Bush was so open and overt to the people about his “spy programs”. And even though he professed ad nauseum that americans were not being spied on without FISA warrants, we all knew it was a load of crap. What he was doing, however, was making it clear that the dems did not know if they’d been spied upon, what he knew about them, and what he might do with the information. Any time Bush seems forthcoming with something, just know that there’s a diabolical scheme padded in there somewhere.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:42 pmIs this just a serious news day or what? The Bhutto assassination attempt is insane–like father like daughter.
Anyone care to speculate on who’s behind it?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmYes, that was completely OT about Bhutto…sorry
October 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmLeahy will not be amenable to immunizing Illegal conduct? Really? How’s that Gonzales/White House investigation coming along? How are all those subpoenas and mean letters working at holding Bush accountable to the law and constitution?
I’m begining to think Leahy is just shooting his mouth of to get points with the public. He won’t do jack.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:43 pmRaynman: What the Intel committed knew, when it knew it, and what details were provided will become a trial against every member of this committee in the future. It’s already being looked at seriously by prosecutors in this country.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:44 pmBe sure to visit Chris Dodd’s website and thank him, too.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
I posted, under Wayne.
Also signed up for his campaign, finally a Dem candidate I can support…..
October 18th, 2007 at 4:45 pmWhere is the outrage and the condemnation from Hil, Obama and company? Are they silent because they are against the immunity, or ……are they taking good campaign money to not say anything?
Neither answer is acceptable to me!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:46 pmhttp://chrisdodd.com is the place to go next. He needs to be deluged with notes of gratitude from the people of this country for what he has done here.
As for Leahy, I still have no clue what he’s all about. He talks a good game but may be blackmailed too. He seems to be a lot of blather and no action - but how is he any different from Pelosi, Harry Reid, and the rest of the spineless democrats in Congress?
October 18th, 2007 at 4:46 pm#34 Oops, I meant to say, “Are they silent because they are FOR the immunity”. My Bad!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pmUpside99: This is precisely why I don’t trust any of the Dem frontrunners.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pmI think we now know whether or not the Intel Committee actually received information about torture (which they’ve denied repeatedly)…. and now the White House is using that fact to blackmail the committee.
Comment by raynman
That is a scary statement. Please explain further.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:47 pmWait a minute! This is supposed to be the year of the libs1 I mean, didn’t you left nuts win the “referendum” last Nov??? What’s going on here? You can’t do a thing right (sorry about that word!)! You’ve passed NOTHING! The evil George Bush wins on EVERYTHING. Iraq is a success and even lib media (newspapers, etc.) agree it is. You can’t even win when you make up stories about Maharishi Rushi!!
I actually feel sorry for you! George Bush supposedly has the lowest polls ratings ever but he’s running rings around you libs!
What in the world is going on here????
October 18th, 2007 at 4:48 pmThis move by Chris Dodd means taking a better look at his candidacy. Clearly, the silence of Clinton and Obama speaks volumes for their complicity in this immunity sham. Frankly, I’m surprised by their lack of concern.
It goes without saying that there isn’t one Republican in Congress with enough intelligence to complete a coherent sentence and some of the dems doing the questioning are pretty nauseating as well. There is one individual who has gotten my attention due to his ability to ask the difficult questions and to not be shaken by bullshit and rhetoric as a smokescreen when it spews from the mouths of the liars. This man is Sheldon Whitehouse. He was on Washington Journal this morning and really sounded good. He’s making the people of Rhode Island happy that’s for sure. He has presidential material written all over him at this point in time. Although I don’t know much about him or his voting record, he appears to be honest and forthright….
October 18th, 2007 at 4:52 pmHorray for Senator Dodd! Too bad DiFi has turned into a Republican. Maybe she has been hanging out with Lieberman too much.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pmTo be honest, I haven’t looked at Dodd closely enough. I certainly will now. Clinton and Obama and even Edwards should have a statement on this within a couple of hours or they are speaking loudly and clearly.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pmWith this move from Chris Dodd, Hillary had better not be taking her nomination to the bank just yet! After all, before his infamous scream, Howard Dean was the annointed one - remember that?
Hillary’s due for a major fall from grace soon. You have to be very suspicious that the right supports her at every turn and is not swiftboating some of the obvious unresolved skeletons in her closet right now.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pmRockefeller and Feinstein both need kicked out in their next primaries for voting for this travesty.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:55 pmUpside99: This is precisely why I don’t trust any of the Dem frontrunners.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
I signed up for Dodd’s petition and forwarded to friends. Originally, I said I would vote for Hillary just to keep Ghouliani out. Now I am not too sure. Ron Paul is a crackpot other than his antiwar stance. Obama is caught between being a progressive or an Uncle Tom to AIPAC. Hillary an AIPAC groupie. Kucinich is the only sane one, but he doe not stand a chance.
It seems that the Democrats as well as Republicans want a Big Brother society. If this bill is not stopped or highly modified, we will have cameras in our bedrooms.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThe Congress needs to step up and show some spine here. It’s unimaginable that we would allow this backdoor connection between the executive branch and industry to survive. There was a story in the post about Bush putting this program together before 9/11. Why is no one talking about that?!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmIALib: Which begs the question: What the hell happened to DiFI and who got to her with some blackmail? She’s become one of the worst disappointments to the people in Congress. What a turnaround!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmWhat kind of dirt did Rove dig up on the House Intel Committee members???
Inquiring minds want to know.
Comment by RUCerious
Jay Rockefeller is heavily indebted to the Telcom industry. Write him a letter, call or e-mail and tell him what you think about him selling out his country for campaign contributions.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:56 pmI signed up for Chris Dodd’s newsletter and forwarded his site to everyone I know. This act of bravery and patriotism needs to be recognized.
As for the comment about the pre 911 spying, they have the QWEST communications to document the dates and it goes back in excess of 6 months previous to 911.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:57 pmIALib: Which begs the question: What the hell happened to DiFI and who got to her with some blackmail? She’s become one of the worst disappointments to the people in Congress. What a turnaround!
Comment by Veritas
Diane Feinstein is not going to run again. So, she is padding her retirement account the best she can before she leaves the Senate. Her husband is very heavily invested in the Military Industrial Complex. Ms. Feinstein has always been a middle of the road (along with the yellow stripes and dead armadillos) Democrat and I always found it amazing that she kept getting re-elected.
October 18th, 2007 at 4:58 pmDemocrats Take Note:
Chris Dodd is the ONLY candidate who decided to LEAD on this issue…He deserves your respect and DEFINITELY deserves your VOTE!!
WAKEUP DEMOCRATS!!
October 18th, 2007 at 4:59 pmHillary’s due for a major fall from grace soon. You have to be very suspicious that the right supports her at every turn and is not swiftboating some of the obvious unresolved skeletons in her closet right now.
Comment by Veritas
Hillary running for President is the Right’s wet dream. They think that she is the only one of the Democrats they can beat. I’m giving Dodd a closer look myself. I just wish that all this would get out there for everyone to see. Middle America doesn’t get half the stuff we know about. The only newspaper in middle America that prints the news is McClatchy, but they are not very big and don’t cover a lot of area. If there was just some way we could turn these people onto the Internet where they can find out anything they need to know rather than basing their opinions on the 10 second sound bites they see on TV.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:03 pmDiane Feinstein is not going to run again. So, she is padding her retirement account the best she can before she leaves the Senate. Her husband is very heavily invested in the Military Industrial Complex. Ms. Feinstein has always been a middle of the road (along with the yellow stripes and dead armadillos) Democrat and I always found it amazing that she kept getting re-elected.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 18, 2007
Same with Lautenberg in New Jersey. He takes tons of money from Israeli lobbies and the people who answer his phones are piss-ants. Menendez just follows Lautenberg’s voting.
AIPAC
October 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pmAIPAC
October 18th, 2007 at 5:06 pmGo away troll. We are busy here.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThanks for the skinny of Diane F. I thought she had some investment in the war profit machine! And I had never heard it before. It’s the only reason these human beings are selling their soul to the devil and selling this country down the tubes. Those leaving after this term see the handwriting on the wall and figure “why stay” if my pockets aren’t going to get lined with gold any longer? I’m beginning to see some of the disgusting picture.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmI seen a document somewhere on the web, of a document that indicated that they were contacting them only 3 weeks after getting into office. This is Pre-Meditated……. Not National Security.
Comment by RemoveBush — October 18, 2007
The way this bill is worded is: “give telephone carriers legal immunity for any role they played in the National Security Agency’s domestic eavesdropping program approved by President Bush after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.â€
The key word is “AFTER”.
The Demos won’t go after Bush for this, as it is not even mentioned.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:08 pmBigfoot: No one even reads your posts and scrolls right past them. If I were you, I wouldn’t waste the time it takes to do the typing.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:10 pmRemoveBush: It’s because Bigfoot IS a criminal himself.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:10 pmHe doesn’t think people know that about him but he’s wrong.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pm“People still remember the days of rallying behind our President during the dark days after 9/11″
Comment by O. Bigpoot
With a deep sense of chagrin…
October 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pmI’m sick and tired of Democrats playing “good cops, bad cops”!
Damn! How transparent are you people!
October 18th, 2007 at 5:12 pmCan’t you see that the people in general SUPPORT the FISA laws as effective tools to gain intel on terrorists? Bring up the FISA law to the general public, and the silence is deafening. People in general SUPPORT our government when it comes to collecting information on enemies, and of course telecommunications companies are going to get immunity, as they should. They were acting in good faith, and people like to talk on their cell phones, and in general like their cell phone companies, so there is no popular support to hammer them with any kind of sanctions or criminal charges.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
So you think it is OK to spy on political opponents, vegetarians, environmentalists, Quakers, gays, ACLU, etc, in the name of “National Security”, even if there is no evidence of violence.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:13 pmPeople still remember the days of rallying behind our President during the dark days after 9/11, and the people will give him support in that issue despite his other misteps in other areas.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
The rally you mention was very short lived. It was quickly discovered that Bush was (and is) a loser. History will show this to the future generations of America. Your reverance for this King is appalling. I laughed when you said the telcoms were acting in good faith. A judge already ruled they were not acting in good faith, they knew they were breaking the law.
All of your words do not make up for the fact that your king is breaking our laws. Because our spineless congress can’t stop it, does not change the fact that they are running a criminal enterprise out of YOUR white house. What exactly could Mr Bush do so you would call him on it? What behavior would finally make you realize you are aiding and abetting this unAmerican cabal?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:14 pmWhat behavior would finally make you realize you are aiding and abetting this unAmerican cabal?
Comment by StratRat — October 18, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Took Limbaugh off the air, shut down Iron City Beer, and made NASCAR illegal
October 18th, 2007 at 5:17 pmHillary’s due for a major fall from grace soon. You have to be very suspicious that the right supports her at every turn and is not swiftboating some of the obvious unresolved skeletons in her closet right now.
Comment by Veritas
Hillary running for President is the Right’s wet dream. They think that she is the only one of the Democrats they can beat.
Comment by bilbobaggins — October 18, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Dead on the money, Bilbo. The RNC is locked and loaded, hoping against hope the Dems truly nominate Hillary, and then they will let her have it. Can’t say I relish the idea of a Clinton II after a Bush II, truth be told.
Every time I see Obama I pray he can pull off a miracle and somehow overtake Hillary, but it seems less likely with every passing week…first primaries are in like 70 days or so?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:17 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — October 18, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
“The koolaide is stong with this one, yes it is” — Yoda
October 18th, 2007 at 5:19 pmEvery time I see Obama I pray he can pull off a miracle and somehow overtake Hillary, but it seems less likely with every passing week…first primaries are in like 70 days or so?
Comment by Keltoi — October 18, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
Obama is not much better than Hillarity, IMHO.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:21 pmBoth are DLC
57% dissapprove of the way Bush is handling terrorism.
68% dissapprove of the way Bush is handling Iraq.
Both from ABC poll 9/30.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pmWhat behavior would finally make you realize you are aiding and abetting this unAmerican cabal?
Comment by StratRat — October 18, 2007 @ 5:14 pm
Took Limbaugh off the air, shut down Iron City Beer, and made NASCAR illegal
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
And, don’t forget their mostest favereet thing in the HOLE world! Watching Roid-Rage Wrestling while eating a deep-fried Twinkie.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:23 pmTook Limbaugh off the air, shut down Iron City Beer, and made NASCAR illegal
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
And tell them WWE wrestling is NOT real……
October 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pmWatch freeper heads explode across the Nation.
Obama is not much better than Hillarity, IMHO.
Both are DLC
Comment by Wayne — October 18, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
I agree totally. However, I measure candidates by how LITTLE connection they have to the Machine. Obama may be a centrist Dem, but Hillary is the very incarnation of the DLC operation.
Unfortunately for you Progressives, even Edwards is turning out too far left to catch much support from Dem primary voters. I understand why the topic of a 3rd Party comes up at TP so much - you guys basically don’t have a horse to back that is even in the race.
‘Cept that Colbert guy. I like the cut of his jib…
October 18th, 2007 at 5:26 pmAnd if the Bush administration takes advantage of this, who’s to say they are wrong?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 18, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Rule of Law
Something you freaks have a hard time understanding.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:29 pmBarf me a hair ball . . . every time you think that this admin’s shennagins can’t get any worse . . . they do. They are consistent.
Today the NYT also reports that media consolidation restrictions are about to be aborted . . . I don’t have enough hair balls to puke.
Cross post:
If America were to veto Bush, would he finally recognize that citizens are relevant?
Actually, the mechanism for vetoing Bush is EMPEACHMENT . . . unfortunately, the so-called Democratic leadership doesn’t recognize its constituents’ relevance.
What do we have to do Pelosi? We elected you all . . . you know what we want . . . isn’t that a sufficiently relevant mandate for our representatives to fight for?
Although the Constitution prohibits retroactive criminal charges, by implication, the retroactive dissolution of a crime should not permitted either. You break into my house and video tape me making love to my husband . . . no way should this moron we call a president be able to declare “no crime” after the crime occurs.
Hello. If the admin is tapping into your phone calls, it’s also claiming a proprietary right to your most intimate relationships.
Where is this country heading? Down a road that’s been travelled before . . . a road that we fought WWII to stop and that our forefathers armed us with a Constitution as a defense.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:30 pmAnd tell them WWE wrestling is NOT real……
Watch freeper heads explode across the Nation.
Comment by Wayne — October 18, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
What! You mean to tell me that it is not real? Ever since I saw Bobo Brazil wrestle Haystacks Calhoun I thought it was…………..
October 18th, 2007 at 5:32 pmI understand why the topic of a 3rd Party comes up at TP so much - you guys basically don’t have a horse to back that is even in the race.
‘Cept that Colbert guy. I like the cut of his jib…
Comment by Keltoi — October 18, 2007 @ 5:26 pm
I agree with most of what you said, and will add the fact the republic party has NO ONE that is electable either. When all of RUDEE’s dirty linen gets out, he will be toast, Fred fell asleep and off the bandwagon and the mitt flip-flops like a fish on a hot rock.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:33 pmHell Kucinich kicks any repubs butt.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:34 pmBigfoot: No one even reads your posts and scrolls right past them. If I were you, I wouldn’t waste the time it takes to do the typing.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Great to see most people do the PAGE DOWN like me and ignore the trolls.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:34 pm:-)
So your summary basically states, it’s OK as long as he does not get caught!
Nice! So by that, I guess I can go and rob a bank and as long as I don’t get caught it is fine with you???
Comment by RemoveBush
That’s one of the precepts of the right. The other is “as long as you can’t prove it”. He’s not guilty of a crime if you can’t prove he is. It doesn’t matter that the reason why we can’t prove it is because he is obstructing justice. The mindset of the right gives me a headache.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:35 pmI’m begining to think Leahy is just shooting his mouth of to get points with the public. He won’t do jack.
Comment by Rosencrantz
Patrick Leahy is the Democratic version of Arlen Specter. They are both “all talk and no do”.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:38 pmAsk about anything else, like FISA, SCHIP, etc., and you will generally draw a blank. The general population only has so much time in their day to take in news..fill it with nothing but bad news about Iraq, and it doesn’t take long until they’ve had enough, and don’t want to hear anymore…they’ve got kids to pick up from soccer, dinner to cook, laundry to wash, jobs to do, etc. In other words, there is life outside the news for most Americans.
And if the Bush administration takes advantage of this, who’s to say they are wrong?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 18, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
I know. I know. I am supposed to ignore trolls, but this guy actually has some intelligence, though is extremely misguided. Maybe he was one of these people who hated hippies, but wanted to go to Woodstock to see the “naked babes”.
BigFoot, as stated before, it is Law. I thought the Repugs were the party of law and order? Is it only when it suits your nefarious ends? Now you are also saying that most Americans are dopes, and know jack about FISA, SCHIP, Article One Section Eight of the Constitution, and deserve what they get? I thought so. Mean-Spirited people you are.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:41 pmKeltoi: In your dreams! Any of the Dem candidates can run roughshod over the paltry, necrotic Repukes any day of the week. Besides, the dems have a few other tricks in their pocket right now in terms of running other candidates so don’t count your chickens so soon.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:41 pmBilbo: The only difference is that Arlan Specter has been corrupt for a long time. Wasn’t he instrumental in the botched kennedy murder “official story”. Yes, he’s been around that long - and growing long in the tooth I might say.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pmYeah….. I emailed Pelosi as she asked on Ed Shultz: “if anyone has any information that is impeachable, let me know and I will proceed with itâ€.
So I emailed her……… Yet for some odd reason I have not heard a damn word……
Comment by RemoveBush
I e-mail her every day and I never hear back from her. I did get a return e-mail from Harry Reid once when I clicked the “want to hear back” box. But I’ll never do it again because all I got was a form-email full of gobbly gook.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pmAh, yes, but this time we have QWEST and other telecoms ratting their competitors out on the breaking of federal spy laws. So there is “proof” of this crime.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:43 pm“Then watch the blank stares and stumbling, bumbling answers. People don’t even know what the FISA law is.”
Comment by O. Bigpoot
Yes, well, Lead and Central isn’t exactly a hotbed of intellect.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:43 pmYou need to broaden your horizons.
mitt flip-flops like a fish on a hot rock.
Comment by upside99 — October 18, 2007 @ 5:33 pm
Yeah, but Mitt has a Presidential “Jaw”. That should be enough to get the nomination.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:43 pmAnyone know which telecoms were involved and how everyone can jump into a class action suit against them right now while this mess is on hold?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:44 pmMitt Romney’s taken too many acting lessons and failed abysmally. He’s become a total joke.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:44 pmBilbo . . . The Bush philosophy is fairly old and fairly trite (even though he thinks its cool):
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it fall, does it make a sound?
Read: If a Constitution is aniolated in America and everyone is asleep, does anyone notice?
His conclusion: No! Weeee! Haliburton, Blackwater, Iraq, pharmas, oil drillers . . . party!
Pelosi is a bimbo in the corner . . . just give her a swat if she crawls your way.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:45 pmHis jaw reminds me of Powdered Toast Man.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:45 pmThe fact is that even the MSM is acknowledging the power of the blogs and the influence of the internet. It’s becoming clear that this venue can make or break a candidate.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:45 pmIt’s breaking the repuke candidates left and right. The blogosphere will determine the winner of the election in 08.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:46 pmYeah, but Mitt has a Presidential “Jawâ€. That should be enough to get the nomination.
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
yea, and that would drive Dobson, Robertson and all the pseudo-Xians batshit CRAZY!!!!
October 18th, 2007 at 5:47 pmPlunger: We’ve got one telecom - A T & T. With what they did to Pearl Jam, we know whose side they’re on and it’s time to join your local lawsuit against them. We can show them the power of the people.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:47 pmPlunger: I love that you’re back because the information you’ve continually provided to us truth seekers has been invaluable. I’ve personally followed up on a good deal of it and send the links to other media sources. Please continue to post here (I know who you really are) and I so appreciate the truthful information you provide.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:49 pm#98 Too many telecoms to name, but the big ones were AT&T, MCI and Sprint. Finding out how to get involved in the class actions would probably involve looking at their 10K or 10Q filings, which you can search on EDGAR.com (also can be found thru Yahoo finance, search each and go to the Edgar link). They are required to report pending litigation . . . from there, you should be able to find the names of the class action law firms.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:51 pmAnyone who has AT & T as their carrier was most likely at least data mined and/or illegally spied upon by them. If you can prove your subscription to their services, I’d say that you need to contact the ACLU and one of their attorneys. Evidently the class action lawsuits are growing by the minute.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:51 pmAT & T, MCI and Sprint - let’s get moving in the direction of the nearest lawsuit today. Contact ACLU for info on class actions.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:52 pmGeorge Bush will be remembered by history as a forward thinking president who had the guts to attempt to handle a situation in the middle east that had been simmering for some time. He confronted our enemy on their turf, rather than letting them get away with yet another terrorist attack on U.S. soil. Good for him!
I also believe, unlike many of you, that George Bush DOES care about this country, and the people in it, and that he does what he does for noble reasons. Almost everyone who personally interviews him comes away with the same percieved conclusion: George Bush is a true believer, and believes he is doing the right thing for his country, regardless of whether the interviewer believes it or not.
On Bizarro World maybe. Hitler, Stalin, Ramses II, Cheops, Caesar, Napoleon, Nixon, Bush Sr, and McCarthy thought they were doing “The Right Thing” to forward their cause. Unless history is completely rewritten by Right Wingbats, it will not be too kind on Old Dumbya, especially the fiasco known as “The War on Terror”
October 18th, 2007 at 5:54 pmIf the ACLU moves quickly with some class action lawsuits against these telecoms, no retroactive immunity will protect them - or Bush for that matter.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pmAT & T, MCI and Sprint - let’s get moving in the direction of the nearest lawsuit today. Contact ACLU for info on class actions.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
T-Mobile DID NOT cooperate with the New Fascists. Cingular uses ATT towers.
October 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pmIs it too early to start talking about a possible Leahy nomination to Attorney General under an Obama or Clinton Administration?
October 18th, 2007 at 5:58 pmWhy are the stories of the Israeli Art Student Spy Ring and the Dancing Israelis all spiked? Why is there a total US Media Blackout on these stories?
These questions seem to answer themselves.
Comment by plunger — October 18, 2007 @ 5:57 pm
plunger, you are right on, and I would like to contact you personally, as I have saying the same thing from day one.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:03 pmThe ACLU definitely has an enormous role in fighting this FISA debacle. . . they have the knowledge and expertise to bring it all the way to the Supremes and set some precedent . . but, to punch these telecoms in the head, private class actions are essential . . . frankly, I think the Supreme Court is loaded with loyal Bushies . . . in contrast, a jury of your peers might just be moved and impose huge damages . . . only huge damages will cause the conglomerates to pay attention. . . . Bush may be a blackmailing SOB, but if a jury imposes a billion +, maybe we shouldn’t be spying on Americans.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:05 pmSadly, for the telecoms, it’s a financial equation.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pmT-Mobile DID NOT cooperate with the New Fascists. Cingular uses ATT towers.
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
And that is why I am a T-Mobile customer!
October 18th, 2007 at 6:19 pmIt’s time to turn out Rockefeller, Mikulski, and others who have forgotten what that demo in democratic stands for and put REAL progressives into office.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:24 pmThe people had better wake up. I’m going to Chris Dodd’s website right now to make a comment. Come and join me there.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Done!
October 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pmThe only difference is that Arlan Specter has been corrupt for a long time. Wasn’t he instrumental in the botched kennedy murder “official storyâ€. Yes, he’s been around that long - and growing long in the tooth I might say.
Comment by Veritas — October 18, 2007 @ 5:42 pm
Specter was “Magic Bullet” Boy
October 18th, 2007 at 6:37 pmLeahy is standing their ground and Rockerfeller should do the same.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:45 pmFor some reason, and against all odds, so far the GOP and BUSH are getting EVERYTHING they want. Everything! The DEMS seem paralysed!
Today Rush Limbaugh said that the REPS are successfull, not because they are accomplishing new things, but because they have been able to stop the DEMS from accomplishing any of their (Dems’) projects. He was kind of shouting victory for impeding the Dems to pass any of their bills. (Well, this just shows who Mr. Limbaugh is, isn’t it?)
What happened to AMERICA? Why is America so sick????
October 18th, 2007 at 6:54 pmAnd that is why I am a T-Mobile customer!
Comment by upside99 — October 18, 2007 @ 6:19 pm
So am I. What puzzles me is that Apple Computer, the most Blue of all companies, uses AT&T with iPhone. I called them and all I got was “No Comment”, and “I don’t have any opinion on whether illegal wiretapping is OK”. I finally asked, “Do you like to be spied upon by the US government”. Her answer was, “Nobody likes that”. So Apple, with it’s Kick Ass Operating System and blazing hardware, is basically mute, and cooperating with The Enemy. However, they are using T-Mobile in Europe. The hacks will continue upon the iPhone.
October 18th, 2007 at 6:54 pmChris Dodd did the right thing.
What I don’t understand is how Bush can pressure the Democrats in the Intelligence Committee. It surely can’t be over pork spending or campaign contributions.
If the CEO of these Telecom companies have such low regard for the stockholders then I see no reason to bail out those CEO’s. Are they pouring money into Democratic cofers? That would just fuel the calls for public funding of federal elections.
October 18th, 2007 at 7:09 pm***
surely you’ve been alerted to this:
http://action.chrisdodd.com/signUp.jsp?key=1570
I have decided to place a “hold” on the latest FISA bill that would have included amnesty for telecommunications companies that enabled the President’s assault on the Constitution by illegally providing personal information on their customers without judicial authorization.
I said that I would do everything I could to stop this bill from passing, and I have.
[…]
we shouldn’t have to wait until then to prevent the further erosion of our country’s most treasured document. That’s why I am stopping this bill today.
Indicate your support for my hold:
http://action.chrisdodd.com/signUp.jsp?key=1570
!
October 18th, 2007 at 7:34 pmPlunger’s anti-semitic Wall of Text crits you for 10,000 points of damage.
You die.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:20 pmPlunger’s anti-semitic Wall of Text crits you for 10,000 points of damage.
Comment by Race Condition — October 18, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
Bullcrap.
Critical thinking of Zionists and Mossad is NOT anti-antisemitism. No more than criticizing Bush is Anti-American. In fact, many Ortodox Jews dislike The Likud Party, and are very critical of it.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:33 pmComment by plunger — October 18, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Boy, you ARE a mouth-breather with no critical thinking capability of your own, no wonder you have to copy-paste every idiot theory you come across.
JFGI.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:50 pmBoy, you ARE a mouth-breather with no critical thinking capability of your own, no wonder you have to copy-paste every idiot theory you come across.
JFGI.
Comment by Race Condition — October 18, 2007
What theory of 9/11 do you adhere to, since they are all theories?
October 18th, 2007 at 8:55 pmWhat theory of 9/11 do you adhere to, since they are all theories?
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
The one that has Ali Mohamed (the CIA agent responsible for the first WTC bombings, the African Embassy Bombings and the 911 training camps in Afghanistan) was ALLOWED to operate for Al Qaeda even after the first WTC bombings. So either you have an incompetent or a complicit government, and we still haven’t investigated which!
Were you aware that this person existed, and that the current nominee for Attorney General was the man responsible for his freedom after the first WTC bombings?
October 18th, 2007 at 9:25 pmI’m sorry but most Americans are dopes. Which is why we are in this mess. They fell for the bullsh!t. Folks like the 28%ers, O’Bigpuke, and Karl Rove count on it.
It’s human nature to become complacent when you are on top and have it all. Americans don’t even appreciate thier freedoms, they don’t even know what they have. Countries who have had freedoms only for a short time are much more involved in their government and all go out and vote.
Humans have a tendency of not knowing what they had until it’s gone.
October 18th, 2007 at 9:32 pmI’d like to know where I can go to get my old traffic tickets overturned???
October 18th, 2007 at 9:53 pm“…people will give him support in that issue despite his other misteps in other areas.”
- O. Bigfoot
Bull shite. Bush has equated the “war” in Iraq with the “war” on terror. Bush had enormous support for a war against the terrorists immediately after 9/11. But people aren’t buying the Iraq war = war on terror, and Bush knows this because he has constantly been on a mission to sell this war to the public for several years now. On TV and on trips across the country (and to foreign locations), he constantly tells America and the world why we are fighting in Iraq and why we must continue.
As to the public supporting FISA, the issue currently being debated regarding giving the telcos immunity has nothing to do with supporting FISA. It has everything to do with allowing the telcos to break the law and get away with it. So glad you support the rule of law.
The government didn’t give a damn about tracking terrorists, for if they did, they’d get a fcking warrant and go to the telcos. They do not need the phone records of tens of millions of Americans to track what they themselves have maintained is a targeted, limited, program. The warrantless wiretapping program targets known or suspected terrorists, or so the administration tells us. There are not tens of millions of known or suspected terrorists, are there, Bigfoot?
Besides, why don’t you answer this question: if the program is legal, if the telcos have broken no laws, why the immunity request?
I’ll tell you why: it’s the same thing that happened when Bush told the world that his warrantless wiretapping program was legal, saying there was no discord in the administration over the program, and then proceeded to block an investigation by the Office of Professional Responsibility to see how attorneys in the Justice Dept. behaved in the manner. As we have seen lately, Bush lied and there were major disagreements in the program. You are familiar with James Comey’s testimony, correct??
October 18th, 2007 at 10:59 pmPlunger’s anti-semitic Wall of Text crits you for 10,000 points of damage.
You die.
Comment by Race Condition — October 18, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
Should for foregoing be construed as a death threat?
Admin?
Comment by plunger — October 18, 2007 @ 8:26 pm?
Are you kidding? As in D&D? Magic? 10,000 hit points? A joke?
No conspiracies are present in the failure to miss your saving throw versus paranoia.
BTW, best damn T-Shirt I ever saw had “Jesus Saves” in huge letters on the front, and on the back it says “Everyone else takes 3 Damage”.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:02 pm“Okay, so the Israelis have the phone lines over at the White House, the Defense Department, the Justice Department, and, for all we know, your local dogcatcher’s office bugged to the max. So they have the capability to know where and when practically every phone call in the US, and large sections of the rest of the world, is made, and to whom. As fantastic as it sounds, given the advance of technology and the reputation of the Mossad, I’m willing to believe it. ”
Comment by plunger — October 18, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
This particular passage was just too good not to throw out there one more time….
October 18th, 2007 at 11:05 pmWhat theory of 9/11 do you adhere to, since they are all theories?
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — October 18, 2007 @ 8:55 pm
Theories? Let’s talk facts, shall we?
Such as the fact that one of the main hallmarks of the PNAC agenda included using a Pearl Harbor-like attack on the U.S. to open the door into American expansion in the Middle East.
And the fact that Bush didn’t take any warnings about an impending attack seriously, such as ignoring the PDB on Aug. 6, 2001. I believe it was Condi Rice who said that no one could have anticipated the attack, while the title of the PDB was “Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.” Oh, but that was brushed off as historical information, and not taken seriously. Funny that historical information about Saddam’s actions and capabilities were front and center in Bush’s rush to invade Iraq at at time when that country was no threat to the U.S.
And the fact that apparently Bush didn’t bother to have a cabinet-level meeting on the issue of terrorism until days before 9/11.
And the fact that Cheney was given the job of creating a terrorism task force, yet did nothing.
And the fact that Bush sat in the classroom for 7 minutes and did nothing, after being told that a 2nd plane had it the WTC towers.
And the fact that no video of a plane hitting the Pentagon exists.
And the fact that steel from the WTC collapse was sold to foreign scrap recyclers (and not to American scrap recyclers) in record time.
And the fact that two airliners were off course, did not respond to communication requests, and the Air Force took no action.
And the fact that many witnesses report hearing explosions seconds before the towers collapsed.
And the fact that despite not being hit by any aircraft, WTC 7 collapsed in the very same manner as a building brought down by planned implosion. And the owner of the complex, Larry Silverstein, giving the order to “pull” the building seconds before it collapsed.
October 18th, 2007 at 11:21 pmWhy do the Congressional Democrats keep caving to George Bush?
Since there is more than one democrat, there is more than one reason. I can offer 2
1) Bribery or blackmail. When you’ve been tapping everyones phone you know about all thier misstresses, lies, and infidilities, etc. If you think this doesnt happen, well, then look back in history and see it was used to dig up dirt on people like martin luther king. If they can dig up dirt on a guy like that they can probably dig up dirt on almost any congressman.
or
2) They are afraid that Bush will stage a terrorist attack and blame it on the democrats not giving him everything he wants. Scoff if you want Bigfwat, just please, remind me again exactly where they determined the anthrax mailed to democrats only (and a tabloid who has published unflattering pictures of the bush twins) came from again? Do you recall?
October 19th, 2007 at 4:46 amYes Ace dont you know, Arabs are the only ones who engage in global conspiracies? If you described all the powers and plots Arabs are supposedly involved with, then said that, say, zionists did those things also, you’d be shouted down as a tinfoil hat wearer. I dont beleive everythign ace posts but I beleive theres more truth to it than there is on the evening news. Remember, just because your rich, powerful, and have the resources of entire countries and companies at your disposal DOESN’t mean your always going to be honest.
October 19th, 2007 at 4:51 amEmpeach them all:
“the Senate Intelligence Committee had reached an agreement with the White House on FISA reform legislation. That agreement reportedly “would give telephone carriers legal immunity for any role they played in the National Security Agency’s domestic eavesdropping program approved by President Bush after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.â€
October 19th, 2007 at 6:13 amBush approved the program before the attack.
9-11 should be banned as any reason for any future legislation.
The politicization of a national disaster should be shunned.
Any pol that continues to attempt to capitolize on the death of thousands should be ostracized.
Facts point to the fact that 9-11 was a tragedy that not only could have been averted, but that was forseeable and utilized for political purposes.
Sickening, but more and more, glaringly true.
Go dubya.
October 19th, 2007 at 6:18 amChocolate Jesus,
“Bush stage a terrorist attack.”
Could that happen? If it did, would he blame it on the dems and use it for political gain.
Pootie did . . . and it was ever so effective.
Don’t know if Bush ever followed suit, but he has sure used 9-11 to great effect.
October 19th, 2007 at 6:54 amPootie of course didn’t blame it on the dems, he blamed the bombing of a Moscow apartment complex in which 93 died, on the Chetchins. . . . No proof . . . no conviction”s . . . just an all out attack on those “terrorists.”
Terrorists are easy to identify, apparently, if you’re the “decider.
October 19th, 2007 at 7:01 amEven easier, if the “decider” has a pre-set disposition and policy of irradicating those he has identified as “terrorists.” No legislative definition or authority required.
In this country, any legislative definition or authorization would probably be a shoe-in, given that Mary Poppins we call Pelsoi.
October 19th, 2007 at 7:06 amJust a side note on the Moscow bombings . . . the incident was completely unprovoked in an area in which the Chechins had no interest and at a time that Pootie was hoppin mad for a fight with the Chechins. He picked a high profile target, blamed it on them, killed lots of people, and no Russians bought the story.
October 19th, 2007 at 7:11 amSaw on another site that the Intel Cmte. believes the telcos acted in good faith (who wouldn’t want to help in tracking terrorists?) and thought that their actions were lawful because the Bush administration told them it was. In other words, it wasn’t the telcos’ fault that they broke the law.
Can I use that when I’m next pulled over for speeding? “Officer, I swear, I didn’t see the speed limit sign showing a lower speed. I didn’t know I was breaking the law. I acted in good faith because I wanted to get to work on time to prevent my employer from losing production.”
October 19th, 2007 at 9:54 amMr. Leahy..please stand with Chris Dodd..show us that Democratics mean what they say and do what they promise..give us a clear choice…don’t let us down and we won’t let you down!!!!
October 19th, 2007 at 2:45 pm