McCain: ‘Seven Or Eight Months’ More Until We Can Start Iraq Withdrawal
McCain: ‘Seven Or Eight Months’ More Until We Can Start Iraq Withdrawal
In an interview with the Nashua Telegraph editorial board, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said yesterday that the “next eight months” will determine whether the Iraq war can be “won”:
“Within some months from now, I would say in seven or eight months, if we continue to see the progress we’ve seen in the last eight months, I think Americans will be generally accepting that we are withdrawing and ceding more authority over to the Iraqi military and that we are achieving quote ’success,’ ” McCain said.
McCain — the chief proponent of escalation — has made plenty of such promises before:
Mar. 2007: “This is our last shot, my friends.”
Feb. 2007: “We can know fairly well in a few months [if the escalation strategy is succeeding].”
Nov. 2006: “We’re either going to lose this thing or win this thing within the next several months.”
Dec. 2005: “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
McCain’s day of accountability has always been just a few months away. Eight months from now — when the 2008 presidential campaign will be in mid-swing — McCain claims he will finally be willing to concede the need for withdrawal. But he suggested that at that time he will be prepared to blame the American public for having lost the war:
“If things go south again and we have significant setbacks, then I think the American people are probably going to demand that we get out, no matter how I feel and no matter how I am convinced about what the consequences of failure are,” McCain said.
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One, one-and-a-half Friedmans at most.
We’ve heard this song before, McCain.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:01 amHmmm,
8 months…that’s 1.33 Freidmans.
McPain is like a broken record; full of static & replaying the same old song month after month.
Hey, John, how’s that campaign going? Even after frolicking with Falwell, the ‘Voter Values’ folks rated you dead last in your spiritual significance.
How’s that working for you?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:03 amMcCain may indeed by correct, with the surge undeniably working, violence in Iraq down 70% since summer, and Al Qaeda in Iraq beginning to panic, we may indeed be able to be to start downsizing our troop strength in Iraq relatively soon.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:05 ami just love my parrot… i named him McCain…. he simply loves crackers.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 amExLax,
The Think Fast thread has a good post by Tripmaster Monkey pointing out that the Reuters article goes on to describe the new violence AQ has started since being chased out of Baghdad.
But you wouldn’t cull a news item to just point out your view, would you.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:08 am/sarcasm
What is this, McCain — the new math version of a Friedman unit?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:09 ami wonder where they will get fresh bodies for iran….
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:09 amBy the way, here is the article from ABC News about Bin Laden’s tape released yesterday that show Al Qaeda is beginning to panic…Even Richard Clarke agrees that the surge is a success:
Worried Bin Laden Urges Iraq Insurgents to ‘Unite’
October 22, 2007 2:29 PM
Brian Ross and Rehab El-Buri Report:
Showing apparent signs of concern over events in Iraq, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden urged insurgents to “unite your lines into one” in an audiotape played on al Jazeera Monday.
“Don’t be arrogant,” bin Laden warned. “Your enemies are trying to break up the jihadi groups. I urge you all to work in one united group.”
People familiar with bin Laden’s voice say the tape appeared to be authentic, although there was no reference to any event that would indicate when it was recorded.
Bin Laden’s message comes at a time when U.S. strategy to split Iraqi insurgent groups from al Qaeda units appears to be working.
“It’s always good news when they are divided,” said Richard Clarke, the former White House counterterrorism adviser, now an ABC News consultant. “It’s reflective that U.S. tactics are having some success.”
Saying he was speaking to “everyone in the Muslim community,” bin Laden urged “scholars and leaders of the jihad” to take on the role of uniting the groups “right now.”
U.S. intelligence officials said they were studying the tape, the third this year from the terror fugitive who is believed to be hiding along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.
ABCNews
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:14 amI predict in the next month or so the emotion terror will come to the USS Mission Accomplished and sign a surrender agreement.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:14 amhttp://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g700000/g701293.jpg
all aboard the “zero dignity express”!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:16 amABCNews
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Geez, Exley… too late for you to serve yer country. Now it’ll be safe for ya to sit on yer *ss at Mets games and congratulate yerself for yer heroic stance. Yer such a man’s man. No wonder yer a GOOPer!!!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:19 amMar. 2007: “This is our last shot, my friends.â€
My BS-radar really goes off when someone I don’t know refers to me as “friend”. Only crooked salesmen, politicians (McCain), and religious zealots (Daryll) do that.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:20 amFrom the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs – Integrated Regional Information Networks (IRIN)
Date: 21 Oct 2007
Iraq: Violence-related deaths drop ‘remarkably’, say authorities and UN
BAGHDAD, 21 October 2007 (IRIN) – Iraqis are breathing a sigh of relief as violence in their war-torn country is ebbing and the number of violence-related victims has dropped sharply since the beginning of this year, according to statistics compiled by the country’s interior, defence and health ministries.
“Violence-related deaths in September dropped remarkably to levels not seen in more than a year as the number [of violence-related deaths] stood at 290 while in September 2006 the number was about 1,400,” Adel Muhsin, the health ministry’s inspector-general, told IRIN in a phone interview.
According to the ministry’s statistics, between January and the end of September 2007, the number of violent deaths involving civilian, police and military in all of Iraq was about 7,100, against 27,000 in the same period of 2006.
According to Muhsin, the average number of dead bodies sent to Baghdad’s main morgue just over a year ago was between 100 and 150 a day. Now, it is no more than 10 bodies a day, and about 50 percent of them are dying in normal circumstances.
There have been days this year when no dead bodies were sent to the morgue and this gave the morgue employees a chance to refurbish it, something they couldn’t do in the past.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon recently said that September witnessed the lowest number of Iraqi casualties in any month this year.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:21 amMcCain is as dead as a door nail and resembles a bull frog on this photo. A bit of comic relief?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:22 amCaption contest:
“…and if we don’t get more troops to sustain the surge, I’m gonna hold my breath until I turn blue!”
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:25 am“According to the ministry’s statistics, between January and the end of September 2007, the number of violent deaths involving civilian, police and military in all of Iraq was about 7,100, against 27,000 in the same period of 2006.”
And there’s no chance they are cooking the stats – like they have witnessed Bush and Co. doing?
Riight.
The violence is down in certain areas because the ethnic cleansing is nearly complete.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:26 amAnd how about those Turks? Does Exley’s rosy outlook encompass what is happening in the Kurdish areas?
Hardly.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:27 amVeritas,
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 amHe’s either constipated or ready to hurl…probably both.
Exley sez:
Oh…right… bin Laden tape. Sometime he’s going to have to make an inspirational tape detailing how he managed to beat terminal renal failure in a cave in Tora Bora.
BTW, what color was his beard this time?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 am“UN Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon recently said that September witnessed the lowest number of Iraqi casualties in any month this year.”
Comment by Exley
And Turkey witnessed the greatest rise interrorist attacks by the PPK, which has forced them to begin military operations, to remove the “imminent threat” posed by the terrorists.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 am“Within some months from now, I would say in seven or eight months, if we continue to see the progress we’ve seen in the last eight months, I think Americans will be generally accepting that we are withdrawing and ceding more authority over to the Iraqi military and that we are achieving quote ’success,’ †McCain said.
Geez — where has McCain been? It’s not gonna take several more months of improvement to get Americans to “accept” withdrawal. Americans want withdrawal now. Hasn’t he been listening?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:30 amYeah, Exley, better to squat and trot, since your posts have such a limited shelf-life.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:31 amHas McCain taken up residency in New Hampshire?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:33 amHe’s going to have to splurge and buy some snow tires for his microbus if he thinks he’ll make it to the primary.
Caption Contest:
Rolaids absorbs 97% of all excess stomach acid…
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:35 amcaption contest:
“Gim’me a minute, I’m surging…”
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:37 am“Exley’s rosy outlook”
Actually, it is not my “rosy outlook.” It is the outlook of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs – Integrated Regional Information Networks, the Interior Ministry of Iraq, and Richard Clarke.
Our troops, working with decent Iraqis, are doing a magnificent job in crushing Al Qaeda in Iraq and bringing the violence in Iraq under control.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:37 ama mere 2 months ago:
“The 2007 Qahtaniya bombings occurred at around 8pm local time on August 14, 2007, when four co-ordinated suicide bomb attacks detonated in the Iraqi towns of Qahtaniya and Jazeera (Siba Sheikh Khidir), near Mosul. Iraqi Red Crescent’s estimates say the bombs have killed 572 and wounded 1,562 people, which would make this the Iraq War’s most deadly car bomb attack to date.”
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:39 amOur troops, working with decent Iraqis, are doing a magnificent job in crushing Al Qaeda in Iraq and bringing the violence in Iraq under control.
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:37 am
And how many Iraqi OFFICIAL military and police are currently trained and in place performing these duties? Your He-Ro, gen. petraeus, was supposed to do that in his past life, but all he did was lose pallets of US currency and 200,000 weapons, both of which are hard at work in Iraq and other countries as we speak.
And the Codpiece Commander Guy wants another $42B, just for a few months rent on his Ego war. When are you going over, Ex?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:41 amOur troops, working with decent Iraqis, are doing a magnificent job in crushing Al Qaeda in Iraq and bringing the violence in Iraq under control.
Comment by Exley
Actually, two entirely different things. But go ahead and conflate them, as is your need…
Thanks for ignoring what’s going on in the North – is shows how willfully ignorant you are much more effectively than I ever could.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:42 amHave you ever seen a politician waste this much public appeal without scandal before? It takes a special level of incompetence to fail that big.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:45 amIraqi Red Crescent’s estimates say the bombs have killed 572 and wounded 1,562 people, which would make this the Iraq War’s most deadly car bomb attack to date.â€
Comment by cha cha cha — October 23, 2007 @ 10:39
But car bombs don’t “count” right?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:46 amThe never ending rolling six months. No matter when you ask about Iraq, the cretins will tell you that we will know in about six months. Try that ploy at work when your boss asks you to complete a project. Almost there, just give me another month.
Meanwhile Bush needs another $45 Billion for His War and coincidentally awards a true hero in Afghanistan the Medal of Honor. He should be honored no doubt, but for Bush to trot out his death and desecrate it to drum up support for His War? That’s necrophilia George, to dig up a corpse and fck it for political points.
Future generations will hate Bush more than the current 70% do as they pay off the incredible debt Bush leaves behind and fight the terrorists he has created in his lust to be remembered as a War President.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:47 amOh how the mighty have fallen :-/
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:47 amActually, McCain, Bush needs a bit more than a few more months before he passes his failure off to the next Administration. If Bush really wanted to “win” the invasion and occupation of Iraq would he really have put Rumsfeld, Bremer, Wolfowitz, and Rove in charge? By the way, where are these clowns now? Run away! Run away!
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:47 amYep, McCain…we start to withdraw those troops right around the height of the election season. And then we’ll suddenly need another “surge” right after.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:49 amViolence down 70%.
this isnt about whether or not it was right to be there anymore. that debate is over. this is about cleaning up a giant freakin mess…and its gonna take however long it takes. McCain understands that there need not be troops there indefinitely…and you bash him. What would anyone here prefer? Withdraw tomorrow? Even on news that violence is down 70%?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:51 amI Know, Mr. McCain might have his hand pressed om “Time Freez” button and thinks that we wake up on same date and year everyday.
But unfortunatly for rest of us have to keep moving along with time and face the reality.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:51 amAnother Friedman, another 700-800 American deaths, then we can blame the American public for losing the war.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:54 amThe only thing that will bring the troops home is the election. I think the only thing that Republicans could possibly use to help keep their numbers up in the House and Senate is the argument that they are the ones bringing the troops home. I am giving it about a 90% chance that a month or two before the elections that the Republicans will finally agree to withdraw the troops for their own benefits during the elections.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 amOur troops, working with decent Iraqis, are doing a magnificent job in crushing Al Qaeda in Iraq and bringing the violence in Iraq under control.
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:37 am
again, exley. say it again and again. lets even agree that aqi is dead. what are you going to do about the CIVIL WAR?
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 amWhat would anyone here prefer? Withdraw tomorrow? Even on news that violence is down 70%?
Comment by Ernesto — October 23, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Uh Huh, we start pulling out, 15,000/month, leaving 75,000 of those troops in perimeter countries (like Kuwait) and watch the Iraqis jump to defend their own country. We can do all that on much less thaor being wounded.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 am“What would anyone here prefer?”
responsible foreign policy that can’t be summed up by “give it 6 more months” proclamations that unsurprisingly pop up every 6 months or so.
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:58 am#41 was supposed to say “We can do that on much less than Dubya is asking for in dollars and in US troops being killed or wounded.”
October 23rd, 2007 at 10:59 amErnesto sez:
From the Reuters article you’re selectively quoting:
Whoops.
When you factor in the fact that violence in Iraq naturally declines during the summer months (as it is just too hot to fight), your 70% reduction just doesn’t seem all that significant anymore. Go figure.
Really? Who won?
Bullsh!t. Chimpy said there was a cobra in the vase. He smashed it on the floor. No cobra to be found. He then proceeded to “clean up” his “giant freakin mess” by demanding all sorts of money for brooms, dustpans, and gloves, enlisted our children to pick up the pieces, without giving them the brooms, dustpans, and gloves we paid for, and they needed, which insured that many of them got glass slivers in their fingers. He then brought in his own cleaning crew, which costs us even more money, and weren’t subject to the rules of the house, since they’re “independent contractors”. He then proceeded to sweep a bunch of pieces under the rug, and claim that “those pieces don’t count”. And when we complain about his performance, we hear “do you want the vase cleaned up or not”, even as it is blindingly obvious that Chimpy never intends to actually clean up his goddamned mess.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:02 amConfusion abounds within that scattered skull.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:05 amFrom what I have heard, McCain isn’t saying anything Hillary or Obama haven’t echoed.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:09 amFrom what I have heard, McCain isn’t saying anything Hillary or Obama haven’t echoed.
Comment by Keltoi — October 23, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Maybe you need to take your fingers out of your ears.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:10 am# of Major Iraqi Cities x Tomahawk Cruise Missiles Tipped with Nukes = 13 x (500,000 + 1,000,000) = cheap compared to americans dying.
Al Basrah
Al Kut
An Najaf
An Nasiriyah
Ar Rutbah
Arbil
As Sulaymaniyah
Baghdad
Karbala
Karkuk
Mosul
Samarra
Umm Qasr
It would have been unpopular but Bush should have nuked the cities if he thought Iraq posed an imminent threat to the united states.
He knew iraq posed no such threat so were paying for his lies in blood.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:11 amKeltoi sez:
And does that make it right? Think before you answer…
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:12 amChimpy never intends to actually clean up his goddamned mess.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey
He’s too tired to clean up after flinging all that feces!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:15 amBelieve in our fighting men and women, even if you don’t believe in our nation.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:15 am
feel free to join up and bathe in the esprit de corps.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:16 amBelieve in our fighting men and women, even if you don’t believe in our nation.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:15 am
I believe in god too but i dont think god will clean up the total frak mess bush created for our country. you know…the mess republicans try to shift to everyone but themselves when confronted with their frak ups.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:17 amKeltoi sez:
From what I have heard, McCain isn’t saying anything Hillary or Obama haven’t echoed.
And does that make it right? Think before you answer…
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 23, 2007 @ 11:12 am
Nooooo…..I just wonder why McCains statement is news. There isn’t a shred of difference between the leading candidates as to what we are going to do in Iraq that I have been able to see. Hillary is the most Hawkish of the Dems, and she sure looks to have a lock on the nomination. She won’t commit to being gone by 2013! Some of the Dems are immediate withdraw types, but they are all polling single digits.
So, I guess my point is, why pick on McCain? I am struggling to recall any TP articles attacking Hillary’s Iraq position, I know posters have, but not TP that I recollect.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:18 amKoltoi,
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:21 amIt’s news when Reps (especially one so pro-war as McCain) changes course and states we can start getting out soon.
What’s significant isn’t the view, it’s the man with the view.
change, not changes
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:21 amsorry, Mom
So, I guess my point is, why pick on McCain? I am struggling to recall any TP articles attacking Hillary’s Iraq position, I know posters have, but not TP that I recollect.
Comment by Keltoi — October 23, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Fair and balanced? Go watch fox news.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:22 am“I believe in god too but i dont think god will clean up the total frak mess bush created for our country. you know…the mess republicans try to shift to everyone but themselves when confronted with their frak ups.
Comment by bob h — October 23, 2007 @ 11:17 amâ€
Since you bring up God: How do you know this isn’t all part of God’s plan, and everything is exactly how it should be?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:21 am
the cliff is over that way lemming. god does for those who do for themselves…not forl azy pricks that expect god to do it for them.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 amHow do you know this isn’t all part of God’s plan, and everything is exactly how it should be?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
That’s the single worst justification for this war I’ve ever seen.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 amWow. Just wow.
“Thankfully, fewer and fewer rooftops are available to you.”
Says Mr. Minority.
Bush suckered you guys, and at this late date you still look for ways to find a pony in the carnage. What a rube.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:23 amHow do you know this isn’t all part of God’s plan, and that everything is exactly how is should be?
Comment by O. Bigfoot
The civilian deaths might be a clue, to those not totally in thrall to Bush and his feckless policies.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:26 am“Thankfully, fewer and fewer rooftops are available to you.â€
Says Mr. Minority.
Bush suckered you guys, and at this late date you still look for ways to find a pony in the carnage. What a rube.
Comment by barfly — October 23, 2007 @ 11:23 am
yep… he should read up on how the children of german nazis and commoners have to learn all their lives about the sins of their fathers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:26 amKeltoi sez:
If you’re genuinely concerned with TP’s article selection, your time would be better spent taking it up with the TP staff than it would be by grousing about it in the comments section…by engaging in the latter you run the risk of being interpreted as attempting to downplay McCain’s words by comparing them to the words of others.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:27 amI’m not trying to give the impression that I am an expert sitting behind my keyboard, but I’m not quite convinced that a soldier on the ground is completely informed of everything going on either. We have seen past examples of how the military has misinformed the troops, or blocked their Internet access to some of our favorite blogs.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 amExactly. So my question again: How do you know this isn’t all part of God’s plan, and that everything is exactly how is should be?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:25 am
Well lets jump into this trollboy….sin precludes pre-destination of fate.
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.†(Romans 10:13).
So god has a predestined plan that requires us to play along? Why should we ask to be saved then?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:29 amLittlefoot sez:
How do you know that the “libs on the rooftops” trying to end this carnage isn’t all part of God’s plan?
See…I can play “idiot Fundie” too.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:29 amComment by O. Bigfoot
How do you know the war isn’t itself against “God’s plan”?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:30 am“yep… he should read up on how the children of german nazis and commoners have to learn all their lives about the sins of their fathers. ”
Comment by bob h — October 23, 2007 @ 11:26 am
That won’t happen here, as guys like Bigfoot and Keltoi try to spread the blame around, to make themselves look less like dupes…
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 amOur troops, working with decent Iraqis, are doing a magnificent job in crushing Al Qaeda in Iraq and bringing the violence in Iraq under control.
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:37 am
I believe that some generals have ALREADY declared victory over Al Qaeda in Iraq:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/mcchrystal/
Has this brought “violence under control”? Are we bringing our troops home because they’ve won?
No. And it might have to do with the fact that only a small amount of the violence in Iraq (less than 5%, by most accounts) has been caused by foreign insurgents, all of which we brand with the Al Qaeda name whether they are with Al Qaeda or not.
“Crushing Al Qaeda” in Iraq is like containing a rabid coyote in the middle of a raging forest fire. Getting rid of one threat in this case doesn’t do anything to mitigate a larger one.
You may not have heard this, but there’s a civil war going in Iraq, which is contributing most of the violence. Getting that “under control” is a different matter. It will eventually die down when one side has managed to successfully “ethnically cleanse” the other side — and this will happen whether we are there or not.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 amEver read the Bible? There’s a lot of war in there, some of it commanded by God.
:) prove it was god and not some whacked out priest.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:34 amA McTrain of promises….
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:35 ambob h. is apparently some kind of Biblical scholar, so the least I can do is invite him to present his grand knowledge of God’s will.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:33 am
anyone who asks me how do i know is inviting flames. no human knows. so stfu. read my posts closely. they turn his argument on its head, not claim divine knowledge. idiot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:35 am“Ever read the Bible? There’s a lot of war in there, some of it commanded by God. There are even instances where what is known today as a “scorched earth†policy was commanded by God.”
Ever heard of the theory of “Just War?” Google it, Godboy, and see what your elders thought of starting wars for bogus reasons.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:37 am“If you think about this implication for a few moments, you will begin to realize how impossible “God’s plan” is. If the concept of “God’s plan” is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children.”
Anyone want to defend gods plan now?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:38 amwell bigfoot?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:38 amjust like fundies…logic is an allergy to them.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:39 amLittlefoot sez:
OK, Littlefoot..here are some questions:
I look forward to your responses.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:40 amandthe fundies faaaaadddddeeeeee.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:40 amIf wounded soldiers can still believe in our mission in Iraq from their hospital beds, which is evidenced over and over by our hospitalized fighting men and women, the very LEAST all you anti-war loudmouths can do is shut up and let them do the job THEY believe in, even if you do not.
Regardless of whether you appreciate their sacrifice, they still believe they are fighting for YOUR safety and security. And they continue despite your assertions that all is lost.
Apparently, they know something you do not, which is entirely possible since they are there, and you armchair critics are not.
Believe in our fighting men and women, even if you don’t believe in our nation.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:15 am
Ah, anecdotal evidence. So handy. I know people who have returned from Iraq who think the whole thing is a colossal disaster, Bigfoot. Apparently they know something you do not, since you’re pretending to be a military expert and patriot without actually serving in the conflict.
Your greatest source of confusion is apparently your blind belief that critics of a stupid and pointless war don’t “believe” in our nation. Personally, I don’t believe that our nation is served by spending billions of dollars because of blunders by Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:41 amAnd I believe this is a just war, which was started for valid reasons. A war which we must fight to conclusion, and victoriously.
So therefore, all is well, idiologically speaking.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:41 am
believe all you want bigfoot. Belief does not require truth or knowledge, just blind faith.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:41 amAnd I believe this is a just war, which was started for valid reasons. A war which we must fight to conclusion, and victoriously.
So therefore, all is well, idiologically speaking.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:41 am
Idiologically is probably a Freudian slip.
What, pray tell, were the valid reasons? Because for those who paid attention, the “reasons” seemed to jump around quite a bit as each was proven invalid.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:42 am“And I believe this is a just war, which was started for valid reasons. A war which we must fight to conclusion, and victoriously.
So therefore, all is well, idiologically speaking.”
From a catholic website:
The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:
The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
Wrong again, Footie.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 am#87…there were 32 at last count i think…some mutually exclusive.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 amTrip, that’s gotta be one of my favorite posts. I smile every time I see it.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:43 amIt reminds me of an episode of “The West Wing”
“I look forward to your responses.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — October 23, 2007 @ 11:40 amâ€
I will not fall into the trap of assuming to speak for God. However, if you still want my OPINIONS on these topics, I will answer them all for you, in time.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:44 am
Again, its not a trap. Its an example of how farsical religion can be if taken literally,instead of seriously.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:45 amSo bigfoot. How many aborted babies does god want this year?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:46 amThe Lord works in mysterious ways.
What a load of sht.
The ultimate copout, the grand excuse for why God can never be wrong. A baby gets it’s eyes ripped out and skull fcked by a babysitter on meth. Well, we don’t understand why but the sweet Jesus knows what he is doing.
Take your God and shove him up your ass Big O. God’s stench is all over this war. Jesus whispers in Bush’s ear, and that’s justification for War?
Christian fanatics and Muslim fanatics are two sides of the same coin. I wish we could put all you sick fcks in a big cage and let your respective Gods fight it out. Leave me and my kids and my country out of your fanaticism.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:46 amLittlefoot sez:
From your earlier posts:
Looks like it’s a little late for you to be voicing that sentiment, Littlefoot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:47 amSo bigfoot. How many aborted babies does god want this year?
Comment by bob h —
I wanted to ask him about that Presbyterian church recently burned in Malibu due to the fires (aka God’s Will). Should they rebuild, given the fact that God has already shown His wrath by burning it down?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:49 amYour first incorrect assumption is that this is a “stupid and pointless warâ€. A conclusion not shared by a majority of the nation.
eeeeeeek. wrong bubble but.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:51 amEight months = McCain Unit, i guess… Friedman, McCain just one-upped you by two months!
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:51 amAnd the fact still remains that far more of our fighting men and women believe in their mission in Iraq, than do not.
wheres the info from? got a link? some proof other than god told me so.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 am“And the fact still remains that far more of our fighting men and women believe in their mission in Iraq, than do not.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Bullshit. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless, when voicing your opinions might get you fragged.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:52 am.
Oh, so it’s ANOTHER SIX MONTHS …
.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 amDoes Pat Tilman ring any bells, Footie?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 ambigfoots thought bubblez;
In the same way then, every murderer is blameless. Since God has planned each of our deaths in exact detail, murderers are actually essential to God’s plan. Why do we punish them? We should be rewarding them for doing their God-planned duty. What if you get raped tomorrow and get pregnant? God did that because he planned the exact time of that child’s birth and death. God actually pre-planned your rape, and the rapist was God’s puppet. Rather than hating the rapist, we should celebrate God’s plan.
yippie for rape bigfoot.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:55 am“So bigfoot. How many aborted babies does god want this year?
Comment by bob h — October 23, 2007 @ 11:46 amâ€
Why, none, of course. The killing of the innocent is certainly against God’s plan. And those who knowingly participate, based on their circumstances, will deserve whatever wrath God has in store for them. I’m glad I don’t have to sit in judgement.
As for church buildings burned by the fires in California. It will be up to each church and congregation to decide, depending on the circumstance.
The “church†is not the structure, it’s the people of the congregation.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:54 am
oh you do need some teaching…..allow me:
For example, if we look in the book A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, “You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!” [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
and heres the fun part…..
Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, “He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death.” Let’s examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.
If you think about this implication for a few moments, you will begin to realize how impossible “God’s plan” is. If the concept of “God’s plan” is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the “exact time” of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God’s plan. You can also see that all the Christians who are fighting against abortion are missing the point. They are actually fighting against God’s plan, and their fight is completely futile. God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] Each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God, so fighting against abortion is a totally wasted effort.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:56 amare you a warrenite bigfoot?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 amStill waiting for those answers, Littlefoot…
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 am“How do you know this isn’t all part of God’s plan, and everything is exactly how it should be?”
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:21 am
“The killing of the innocent is certainly against God’s plan.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:54 am
There — I think you answered your own question.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 ammy church tells me that heritics should be burned at the stake…after a thoughtful trial and torture of course. you qualify if you are a warrenite.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 am“As for church buildings burned by the fires in California. It will be up to each church and congregation to decide, depending on the circumstance.”
Footie’s the Mohammed Ali of thread postings – Mohammed Ali, after he took too many head-shots, that is.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:58 ami think i get it now…the responsible thing to do here is to pull out of iraq by the end of the month…and just hope whats left can function! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
they already have another foreign country gettin officially aggressive, turkey. handling a distaster like a full scale turkish invasion would require more than the fragile government could manage. if we were to pull out immediately…how could we just ignore the fact that the country we’d be leaving is still in shambles?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 amThe killing of the innocent is certainly against God’s plan.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Unless they’re Iraqis?
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 amDo not trust your feelings. They change. Stand on God’s promises. They never change. After you are saved, there are three things to practice daily for spiritual growth:
* Pray — you talk to God.
* Read your Bible — God talks to you.
* Witness — you talk for God.
……………………………..
if you believe this bigfoot you are a heretic…please report to the nearest disintegration chamber.
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:59 am“are you a warrenite bigfoot?”
Comment by bob h
He’s an IslaMoe Howardist.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 pmi think i get it now…the responsible thing to do here is to pull out of iraq by the end of the month…and just hope whats left can function! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
they already have another foreign country gettin officially aggressive, turkey. handling a distaster like a full scale turkish invasion would require more than the fragile government could manage. if we were to pull out immediately…how could we just ignore the fact that the country we’d be leaving is still in shambles?
Comment by Ernesto — October 23, 2007 @ 11:59 am
since when is any nation responsible for any other?
f that.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:00 pmAnd the fact still remains that far more of our fighting men and women believe in their mission in Iraq, than do not.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 11:49 am
Hey, here’s a fun poll indicating that you’re dead wrong:
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,142665,00.html
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm“how could we just ignore the fact that the country we’d be leaving is still in shambles?”
Comment by Ernesto
When staying will make it even worse…
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:01 pm“And the fact still remains that far more of our fighting men and women believe in their mission in Iraq, than do not.
wheres the info from? got a link? some proof other than god told me so.
Comment by bob h — October 23, 2007 @ 11:52 amâ€
It’s simple. All you have to do is personally talk to them. I don’t need to search the internet for someone else’s research to prove the point, I already know it to be fact. It’s your choice whether you want to believe my research or not.
I challenge you to get off your computers and have the guts to actually go up and talk with whatever fighting men and women you happen to see during the course of your daily activities.
It’s easy to do, as uniformed servicemen and women are easily spotted by those with sight.
Blind folks are relieved of this challenge.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
yeah. im related to fourteen of them. i can call them anytime.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:02 pmMr. Bigfoot, you never responded yesterday to validate your notion that Mrs. Wilson wasn’t a covert agent despite the mounting evidence to prove she was. You ran away.
Why do you think your voice carries any weight here when you showed all yesterday that you don’t have evidence.
You have an opinion which is just like an anus, everyone’s got one. But that’s all you have.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:02 pmand they say its fubar. do u know what that means?
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 pmLittlefoot sez:
Izzat so?
Care to explain these passages, Littlefoot?
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 pm“It’s simple. All you have to do is personally talk to them. I don’t need to search the internet for someone else’s research to prove the point, I already know it to be fact. It’s your choice whether you want to believe my research or not.”
Pat Tillman might have had something different to add – if he hadn’t been fragged by his “brothers” for his views.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:03 pmsmithites sound smiteable as heritics. links to your beliefs – i want to read what someone else says as you seem incapable of explaining yorself out of a paper bag.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:06 pmThat’s how you can tell when you hit a sensitive subject: wingnuts like Footie just ignore you.
It’s like hearing a virtual “Oh, no, you’ve sunk my battleship!”
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:08 pmIf this is the greatest threat to our country then why hasn’t the president ask congress to declare war? Why hasn’t he called on all americans to join together in unified sacrifice? Why hasn’t he put forth a plan on how to pay for fighting the most serious threat to our nation? Where is the money coming from? Why hasn’t there been a draft?
Continued supplemental spending for going on 6 years isn’t the way a true fiscal conservative would go. Bush wants us to shop instead of ask for a sacrifice. That’s because he’s been wrong from the start on this conflict of agression. He never asked for a declaration of war because he knew Gitmo, Renditions and the tactics used are illegal and would be subject to the Geneva convention.
Make no mistake Mr. Bigfoot, there are no “haters of America” here. That is a slogan the small minded try to plaster on people who exercise their patriotic duty to question the rationale for this agression.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 pmA Smithite? IS that one of those guys who followed the fortune teller from New York? Ended up in Salt Lake and whose path to Heaven was to let Brigham Young drill your daughter when she was 12?
That explains a lot Big O., thanks for sharing the source of your pathetic idiocy.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 pm“smithites sound smiteable as heritics.”
I think he’s trying to be witty, and say Adam Smith is his spiritual leader.
Now that could be funny – or pathological.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 pmi think dwight schrute is a smithite
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:12 pmA Smithite? IS that one of those guys who followed the fortune teller from New York? Ended up in Salt Lake and whose path to Heaven was to let Brigham Young drill your daughter when she was 12?
That explains a lot Big O., thanks for sharing the source of your pathetic idiocy.
Comment by nanlichi — October 23, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
mormon heretics? sounds positively smitable. adam smithites? not so much.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:12 pmThat’s a brilliant response mr. bigfoot. It doesn’t refute any of the evidence provided yesterday to show what you claim. You believed Plame wasn’t covert. You were shown she was. You ran.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:15 pm,crickets chirping, i suppose bigfoots head imploded.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:18 pmAccording to the myth of Joey Smith any non-Mormon is the “spawn of Satan.”
Not a paraphrase, a quote. Explains Big O.’s blind faith in killing Muslims.
I may be jumping to conclusions though, maybe Big O. is not Mormon. If he is, he is surely proud enough of that fact to share it. How about it Big O., LDS?
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:18 pmStill waiting, Littlefoot…
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:21 pmhttp://www.military.com/ NewsContent/ 0,13319,142665,00.html
Comment by erock — October 23, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
OUCH!! Looks like biggie just got one of his asinine comments ran right up his Dubya hole! heh heh.
That’s what happens to the blind and the 24%ers.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:23 pmThat’s how you can tell when you hit a sensitive subject: wingnuts like Footie just ignore you.
Comment by barfly — October 23, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
This could explain why O. Bigfoot has never responded to any of my rebuttals to his posts. And he rarely responds to any rebuttal from anyone else. either. Maybe we’re all on his “ignore” list?
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:28 pmLet him be, he’s probably panicing like Al-Qaeda. ;)
Thats my favorite part about arguing with neocons. They can say “EVERYONE KNOWS THAT” and “ASK ANY XXX” all day long, you show a statistic, tends to quiet them rather quickly.
Or they make a seamless transition to another topic.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:30 pmI challenge you to get off your computers and have the guts to actually go up and talk with whatever fighting men and women you happen to see during the course of your daily activities.
It’s easy to do, as uniformed servicemen and women are easily spotted by those with sight.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 12:00 pm
I rarely see uniformed servicemen and women during the course of my daily activities, because I live and work in the United States, and they’re over in Iraq. If I was located anywhere near a military base, it might be different. I do occasionally see military recruiters, but I’m not sure I would get a whole lot of objectivity out of them.
I do, however, work with a couple of National Guardsmen — both of whom have served one tour in Iraq and are awaiting orders for another one. While it’s not a big enough sample to be of any statistical value, both of them think we should not be there and want withdrawal to begin. However, if and when they are called, they will return to Iraq and do what’s asked of them.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:37 pmthey already have another foreign country gettin officially aggressive, turkey. handling a distaster like a full scale turkish invasion would require more than the fragile government could manage. if we were to pull out immediately…how could we just ignore the fact that the country we’d be leaving is still in shambles?
Comment by Ernesto — October 23, 2007 @ 11:59 am
IRAQ would not be “in shambles” had WE not invaded. It would not be “in shambles” had WE not unnecessarily bombed their infrastructure in to dust. It would not be “in shambles” had WE not unnecessarily dismantled the bulk of their military, and destroyed the bulk of their military assets. It would not be “in shambles” had WE allowed THEM to fix their own country’s infrastructure. Instead, WE have unnecessarily contracted that work out to AMERICAN-run corporations (who have done a dismal job, or blatantly stolen the money and not held up their end of the bargain).
WE are the problem here. OUR presence is the problem here. WE were not supposed to OCCUPY Iraq. WE were told were were simply going in, removing Saddam Hussein, and dismantling his WMD program (which, BTW, we have YET to find).
If WE had not gutted their military, set them back decades due to infrastructure devastation, and set their economy back by hiring out foreign construction companies rather than hiring (and thus, paying) hard-working Iraqis, there would have been no need for an OCCUPATION of American military personnel and an army of private American contractors. If WE hadn’t done to them what WE did, they would have an intact infrastructure, and a fully-functional military.
Turkey would not be a threat, and would not have the window of opportunity to invade. WE provided them with that window. As it is, how the hell do you think we can stave off an attack by the Turkey military, the second largest standing army in NATO? Our military is “broken”, our NATIONAL GUARD is away from the homeland, serving as an extension of the Army proper due to a lack of military personnel. We couldn’t stop a military invasion by Turkey even if we wanted to. And still, knowing all that, Bush and Co want to invade IRAN. They want to invade Iran WHILE Turkey is rattling sabers and gathering at the border. They want to invade IRAN because they are supplying insurgents, while SAUDI ARABIA is supplying far more of the insurgents. You know, SAUDI ARABIA, the country from which 14 of the 9/11 hijackers came from? How many came from Iraq? Zero. How many came from Iran? Zero. How many came from Afghanistan? Zero.
We are not making things better by continuing to be there. On the contrary, we are making it worse. We need to leave Iraq, and allow the Iraqis to rebuild on their own terms, with their own people, and using resources they can gather. Even if we do not like the source of those resources (if the help comes from Syria, Iran, or wherever, that is up to the Iraqi people, NOT US).
Moreover, IRAQIS want us to leave, overwhelmingly. IRAQIS want to permanent U.S. bases. IRAQIS just want their country back, and stability returned to their lives. Are they a sovereign nation, or not?
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:18 pmModeration, you certainly had a lot to say. And you put it very well.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:23 pmCome on Big O., it shouldn’t be something to be ashamed of, if you belong to the cult of Joey Smith step up and tell us.
I am going to assume that silence is a yes. I have never met a non-Mormon Christian yet that doesn’t clear that record.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:31 pmMcCain may indeed by correct, with the surge undeniably working, violence in Iraq down 70% since summer, and Al Qaeda in Iraq beginning to panic, we may indeed be able to be to start downsizing our troop strength in Iraq relatively soon.
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:05 am
Exley if you want to know the latest facts about how things are going in Iraq and what the Iraqis intend to do, I suggest you read this:
Shiite-Sunni Alliance October 2007
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ17Ak03.html
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmThanks foreyes, good read.
October 23rd, 2007 at 1:54 pmBy the way, here is the article from ABC News about Bin Laden’s tape released yesterday that show Al Qaeda is beginning to panic…Even Richard Clarke agrees that the surge is a success:
Comment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Bin Laden is totally irrelevant to what’s happening in Iraq. Al Quada in the Land of Two Rivers represents 5-7 percent of the insurgency and it is not even certain that Bin Laden had anything to do with the creation of that group. Is it a coincidence that the so-called Al Quada in Mesopotamia started to wither when the US military began to dole out $$$$ to the local sheiks?
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmAnyhow, Iraqis don’t want foreign fighters on their soil and are therefore helping to get them out. A good question would be: what’s going to substitute the Al Quada boogeyman when the insurgency keeps on kiling American soldiers? Is it the Iranians?
Last I heard, McCain was selling shoes for gas money: http://www.nationalsquib.com/html/john_mccain.html
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmthanks for the link foreyes. That’s more detail in one article than I have seen in 7 months of newspapers.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:10 pmYou’re welcome nanlichi, hellinabucket.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:34 pmAsia Times allways carries great articles and Pepe Escobar is one hell of an investigative reporter.
Correction to #149. The correct spelling is “Al Qaeda”
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:38 pmCorrection to #149. The correct spelling is “Al Qaedaâ€
Comment by foreyes — October 23, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Actually both (and plenty more) are acceptable although “Al Queda” is the most widely used english-ized spelling.
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pmComment by erock — October 23, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
Oops, ironically that should be “Al Qaeda.”
October 23rd, 2007 at 2:49 pmAP article that came out this aternoon:
Sharp drop seen in US deaths in Iraq
By STEVEN R. HURST, Associated Press Writer
October is on course to record the second consecutive decline in U.S. military and Iraqi civilian deaths and Americans commanders say they know why: the U.S. troop increase and an Iraqi groundswell against al-Qaida and Shiite militia extremists.
Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch points to what the military calls “Concerned Citizens” — both Shiites and Sunnis who have joined the American fight. He says he’s signed up 20,000 of them in the past four months.
“I’ve never been more optimistic than I am right now with the progress we’ve made in Iraq. The only people who are going to win this counterinsurgency project are the people of Iraq. We’ve said that all along. And now they’re coming forward in masses,” Lynch said in a recent interview … The efforts to recruit local partners began taking shape earlier this year in the western province of Anbar, which had become the virtual heartland for Sunni insurgents and al-Qaida bands. The early successes in Anbar — coming alongside a boost of 30,000 U.S. forces into the Baghdad area — led to similar alliances in other parts of Iraq.
“People are fed up with fear, intimidation and being brutalized. Once they hit that tipping point, they’re fed up, they come to realized we truly do provide them better hope for the future. What we’re seeing now is the beginning of a snowball,” said Keaveny, whose forces operate out of Forward Operating Base Kalsu, about 35 miles south of Baghdad.
October 23rd, 2007 at 4:49 pmComment by Exley — October 23, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Based on what I’ve read, the only reason for the apparent “success” in Anbar is the rise of “gangsterism” and the homogenization of the region. Once one sect has eliminated the other, the violence goes away.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:04 pmExley that is good news. Did you read this link:
http://www.atimes.com/ atimes/ Middle_East/ IJ17Ak03.html
Bush was correct when he said it’s complex. The number of deaths isn’t a measurement that shows success or failure.
Mr. Bigfoot, I haven’t seen any evidence to support your claim that Plame wasn’t covert. Without that evidence, or admission by you that you are wrong, I will conclude you only have opinions and don’t stand on anything concrete like facts.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:35 pmMr. Bigfoot, I haven’t seen any evidence to support your claim that Plame wasn’t covert. Without that evidence, or admission by you that you are wrong, I will conclude you only have opinions and don’t stand on anything concrete like facts.
Comment by hellinabucket — October 23, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Hey, leave him alone, its hard to find facts that support false claims.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pmMr. Bigfoot leaves a very small impression in my book.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pmOK, please.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:53 pmIf so, your meager ligitimacy in my mind just slipped to nothing.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — October 23, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
“Republicans hate facts” has by far more ligitimacy than what you could possibly fit in your “mind”. The day I see you compare hard facts with him mano a mano, then I will take you seriously and I think a lot of people will agree.
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:58 pm“Be back after I get done hooking up the water line to one of my outbuildings…it’s been freezing at night and the ditch is still open…”
Be sure you don’t confuse the fresh and waste lines to your outhouse…
Now that I think about it, your posts do have an air of fecal toxicity about them. Perhaps you should see a doctor…
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:22 pmBig O.,
Tonight’s the cold one, it will get better through the week and into the weekend.
I am a pretty tolerant guy and definitely not a religious bigot, I don’t dislike any religion more than another and I don’t subscribe to any. Secular and pretty spiritual. I just got back from a week chasing elk in the White Mountains of Arizona and that is a pretty religious experience for me. Spent time with family and extended family and friends, several of them “Smithites”.
It bothers me greatly when someone blames actions and decisions on their beliefs. It’s a cop out in my book.
Bush’s Iraq War is one of the most egregious examples. I don’t know to what extent his religion factored into that miserable decision, but it was a factor.
So I can’t own up to being intolerant and a religious bigot. But I do retract my question of your faith, I will go with my gut assumption.
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:31 pm//vitriol off//
Big O.
Late getting back to the thread because, yes I got an elk and we spent 5 hours last night cutting, grinding and wrapping. South of El Malpais, would that be Quemado, Fence Lake, Ramah, Pie Town?
Their are a lot of things about the Mormon way of life I admire, the dedication to family and community. The thing I don’t like about the Mormon religion is the same problem you guys have had all the way back to Palmyra, it’s the bright line you draw between Mormon and non-Mormon and the influence the Mormon bloc has on politics. The entire Ward will vote as a single voice to support a candidate or position, from POTUS to high school cheerleader. The individual is subsumed by the church.
And it explains for me the unwavering support for Bush in any and all areas. The predetermined answer is that he is right. Trust the authority figures to do the right thing.
I think you guys have been had. Your history is one of fierce resistance to government influence in your lives. How can you support his manipulation of the masses to get His War in Iraq and destruction of Civil Liberties, just to mention a couple?
And although this is absolutely none of my business, I would hate to see any father send a son to fight Bush’s War in Iraq. I know several kids who have been over and back and watched a friend deal with the loss of his kid. A mission to Ecuador maybe?
Enough rambling, I have to get a pile of work off my desk.
//vitriol on//
October 24th, 2007 at 10:57 am