Comments on: Blackwater Launches Campaign Urging Supporters To ‘Influence’ Congress With Misleading Spin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:04:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: wildcleotis http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-2/#comment-4135929 wildcleotis Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:46:39 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4135929 I think the people will need to form our own militias to balance the power of "private" corporate armies. Is this how the Founders envisioned America? I don't think so. I think the people will need to form our own militias to balance the power of “private” corporate armies. Is this how the Founders envisioned America?

I don’t think so.

]]> By: bernarda http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-2/#comment-4132234 bernarda Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:02:35 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4132234 Erik Prince and his brownshirts. Poor Erik says he is not a mercenary because he only fights for America, supposedly. Why doesn't any congressman or journalist ask him how many former South African "security" force personnel, Chilean "security" personnel, Serb war criminals, etc. he employs? How many murderers and torturers are on the Blackwater payroll? I mean, even before they joined Erik Prince. What reason do we have to believe that Erik Prince is not a war criminal himself? Erik Prince and his brownshirts. Poor Erik says he is not a mercenary because he only fights for America, supposedly. Why doesn’t any congressman or journalist ask him how many former South African “security” force personnel, Chilean “security” personnel, Serb war criminals, etc. he employs?

How many murderers and torturers are on the Blackwater payroll? I mean, even before they joined Erik Prince. What reason do we have to believe that Erik Prince is not a war criminal himself?

]]> By: Vyan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-2/#comment-4132202 Vyan Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:35:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4132202 The core of the Blackwater claim that their services are cheaper is based on the fact that their employees are independant contractors who receive a 1099 instead of a W-2. Blackwater doesn't pay for their healthcare or pensions and counts that as a net savings when you project their costs out over several decades when their "employees" injured and/or retire. They also don't pay payroll taxes. vyan The core of the Blackwater claim that their services are cheaper is based on the fact that their employees are independant contractors who receive a 1099 instead of a W-2. Blackwater doesn’t pay for their healthcare or pensions and counts that as a net savings when you project their costs out over several decades when their “employees” injured and/or retire. They also don’t pay payroll taxes.

vyan

]]> By: moondancer http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-2/#comment-4132063 moondancer Thu, 25 Oct 2007 02:36:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4132063 From the pages of Newt Gingrich playbook; always use mercenary not contractor. Phrases like out of control, dangerous, murderers, hateful undisciplined, menacing are useful. Dont laugh or roll your eyes, this is the secret of gooper success for the last couple of decades. I think relaying the feeling of embarrassment from having murderous mercenaries destroying all chance of success in Iraq is a story that needs to be told over and over. From the pages of Newt Gingrich playbook; always use mercenary not contractor. Phrases like out of control, dangerous, murderers, hateful undisciplined, menacing are useful. Dont laugh or roll your eyes, this is the secret of gooper success for the last couple of decades.
I think relaying the feeling of embarrassment from having murderous mercenaries destroying all chance of success in Iraq is a story that needs to be told over and over.

]]> By: theswan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131775 theswan Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:31:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131775 Blackwater costs us more than money. We need no mercenaries representing our country. These are gung-ho lunatics looking to perform their macho deeds to "get it off". "Getting it off" can be done at a republican gathering with more satisfaction. Blackwater costs us more than money. We need no mercenaries representing our country. These are gung-ho lunatics looking to perform their macho deeds to “get it off”.
“Getting it off” can be done at a republican gathering with more satisfaction.

]]> By: Michael Keenan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131744 Michael Keenan Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:50:38 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131744 Hitler himself clearly presecribes the possibility of destroying the constitution legally in his famous "oath of Legality" at the Leipzig Reichwehr trial in 1930, when he declared with impunity before the court: "The Constitution prescribes only the arena of the struggle; it does not specify the goal. We shall enter the legitimate organizations and in this way make our party the decisive factor. Once we possess the constitutional rights to do so, we shall, of course, cast the state in the mold that we consider to be the right one. Goebbels was even better: "We are entering the Reichstag to supply ourselves ourselves, in the arsenal of democracy, with democracy's own weapons. We bbecome Reichstag deputies in order to paralyse the spirit of Weimar with its own aid. IF democracy is so stupid as to pay our transportation and daily expenses for these 'SERVICES' of ours, that is its own fault...We come as enemies! As the wolf breaks into the sheepfold, so come we.." I say Congress exercises it right under the power to tax and spend for a military to bring a resolution to the floor on whether we the people even want a standing army. If we the people have this much power then why does Blackwater, a private army, believe it has any standing at all? Hitler himself clearly presecribes the possibility of destroying the constitution legally in his famous “oath of Legality” at the Leipzig Reichwehr trial in 1930, when he declared with impunity before the court:

“The Constitution prescribes only the arena of the struggle; it does not specify the goal. We shall enter the legitimate organizations and in this way make our party the decisive factor. Once we possess the constitutional rights to do so, we shall, of course, cast the state in the mold that we consider to be the right one.

Goebbels was even better:

“We are entering the Reichstag to supply ourselves ourselves, in the arsenal of democracy, with democracy’s own weapons. We bbecome Reichstag deputies in order to paralyse the spirit of Weimar with its own aid. IF democracy is so stupid as to pay our transportation and daily expenses for these ‘SERVICES’ of ours, that is its own fault…We come as enemies! As the wolf breaks into the sheepfold, so come we..”

I say Congress exercises it right under the power to tax and spend for a military to bring a resolution to the floor on whether we the people even want a standing army. If we the people have this much power then why does Blackwater, a private army, believe it has any standing at all?

]]> By: katy http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131734 katy Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:36:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131734 <strong>heard something VERY interesting on randi's show earlier... she was talking with rep. bob filner, CA 51... he stated that the first of the fires started in the rural area near petrero... that is was determined to be arson... that petrero is where blackwater is "planning to build a new military training center"... hmmm...</strong> info on that facility: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/19/1349211 ... heard something VERY interesting on randi’s show earlier…

she was talking with rep. bob filner, CA 51… he stated that the first of the fires started in the rural area near petrero… that is was determined to be arson… that petrero is where blackwater is “planning to build a new military training center”…

hmmm…

info on that facility:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/19/1349211
…

]]> By: Merlin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131728 Merlin Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:34:11 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131728 #15 Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 3:39 pm <em>Why is Hillary so close to Blackwater?</em> Your Hillary bashing is out of place here you dumb troll. Progressives are not for Hillary and your stupid attempt to inflame falls on deaf ears here. Like I told Hits above: Go back to LGFootfungus and learn how to be an effective troll. Your attempt is laughable. #15 Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 3:39 pm

Why is Hillary so close to Blackwater?

Your Hillary bashing is out of place here you dumb troll. Progressives are not for Hillary and your stupid attempt to inflame falls on deaf ears here. Like I told Hits above:
Go back to LGFootfungus and learn how to be an effective troll. Your attempt is laughable.

]]> By: Merlin http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131723 Merlin Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:27:42 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131723 #7 Comment by hits — October 24, 2007 @ 3:23 pm <em>Blackwater deserves a fair hearing before being excoriated.</em> Talk to the Iraqis about a fair hearing. Their investigation was thorough, with rooftop witnesses and no evidence of any shell casings on the ground other than those from Blackwater guns. <em>I would argue that given the tough situations they have to face, their actions, even if erroneous are justifiable.</em> BwaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaa I would argue that a private army that has blanket protection from a Paul Bremmer edict and no one to answer to for its actions, should not be there at all. <em>The collateral damage they caused is not any more or less than what happens when a bomb goes astray.</em> Human lives as "collateral damage?" Are you excusing all the bombing as OK, and a stray bomb as, well "just part of the price the Iraqis have to pay?" Is that what you think? You must be either really stoooopid, or totally dead inside to make this kind of insane statement. Of course right wing trolls with their heads up their soft warm place might be a much better explanation for your post. Go back to LGFootfungus and trade your hate messages over there. #7 Comment by hits — October 24, 2007 @ 3:23 pm

Blackwater deserves a fair hearing before being excoriated.

Talk to the Iraqis about a fair hearing. Their investigation was thorough, with rooftop witnesses and no evidence of any shell casings on the ground other than those from Blackwater guns.

I would argue that given the tough situations they have to face, their actions, even if erroneous are justifiable.

BwaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaa
I would argue that a private army that has blanket protection from a Paul Bremmer edict and no one to answer to for its actions, should not be there at all.

The collateral damage they caused is not any more or less than what happens when a bomb goes astray.

Human lives as “collateral damage?” Are you excusing all the bombing as OK, and a stray bomb as, well “just part of the price the Iraqis have to pay?” Is that what you think?
You must be either really stoooopid, or totally dead inside to make this kind of insane statement.

Of course right wing trolls with their heads up their soft warm place might be a much better explanation for your post. Go back to LGFootfungus and trade your hate messages over there.

]]> By: Shayne http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131622 Shayne Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:37:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131622 Why is Hillary so close to Blackwater? Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 3:39 pm I thought you guys wanted Hillary to win the nomination so you could pull out all the shit about her for the general election. Get with the programs Donkeykong. Of course lot's of us would be much happier if Hillary didn't get the nomination. Why is Hillary so close to Blackwater?

Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 3:39 pm

I thought you guys wanted Hillary to win the nomination so you could pull out all the shit about her for the general election. Get with the programs Donkeykong. Of course lot’s of us would be much happier if Hillary didn’t get the nomination.

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131602 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:29:09 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131602 Let me clear something up: Clinton doesn't claim to be the only candidate to make this pledge. I'm saying I haven't heard any other candidate pledge that, including Saint Kucinich. Let me clear something up: Clinton doesn’t claim to be the only candidate to make this pledge. I’m saying I haven’t heard any other candidate pledge that, including Saint Kucinich.

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131595 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:27:37 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131595 Statrat: "Hillary Clinton does not impress me at all. I believe she will keep and use most of the powers Bush has claimed for himself." Actually, according to an interview with her in the Guardian, she is the only candidate of either party to say expressly that she will "give back" some of the new powers this administration has taken for itself. She says in this recent interview that she will immediately call for a re-evaluation of all Bush administration changes in the law and in executive power. There's a link to this article at Buzzflash, if you don't believe me. Statrat: “Hillary Clinton does not impress me at all. I believe she will keep and use most of the powers Bush has claimed for himself.”

Actually, according to an interview with her in the Guardian, she is the only candidate of either party to say expressly that she will “give back” some of the new powers this administration has taken for itself. She says in this recent interview that she will immediately call for a re-evaluation of all Bush administration changes in the law and in executive power. There’s a link to this article at Buzzflash, if you don’t believe me.

]]> By: missmolly http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131591 missmolly Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:24:20 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131591 Is THIS what they made their new logo for? It still looks like a sinister symbol you might see at the bottom of a ransom note in a horror movie. Is THIS what they made their new logo for? It still looks like a sinister symbol you might see at the bottom of a ransom note in a horror movie.

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131533 Leftside Annie Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:01:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131533 Hey, TCDon - check *this* out: Christian college embraces Romney bid By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press GREENVILLE, S.C. - Mitt Romney's presidential campaign has been embraced in a most unlikely place: at Bob Jones University, the influential Christian college that teaches that his Mormon church is a cult. <b>"It's hard to see, but I think that they just realized that he's the best of a bad lot. I hate to say it that way,"</b> said Dave Woodard, a longtime GOP activist and political science professor at Clemson University. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Yeah, you Republicans have a whole lot going for you!!! Hey, TCDon – check *this* out:

Christian college embraces Romney bid

By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press

GREENVILLE, S.C. – Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign has been embraced in a most unlikely place: at Bob Jones University, the influential Christian college that teaches that his Mormon church is a cult.

“It’s hard to see, but I think that they just realized that he’s the best of a bad lot. I hate to say it that way,” said Dave Woodard, a longtime GOP activist and political science professor at Clemson University.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Yeah, you Republicans have a whole lot going for you!!!

]]> By: gummitch http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131530 gummitch Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:00:05 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131530 <em>The PR firm run by Mark Penn (Hillary Clinton’s top strategist) and Scott Pastrick (former treasurer of the Democratic National Committee) represents Blackwater. Comment by TCDon These two people are free citizens. They are able to make their own choices and don’t need Clinton’s blessing to earn a living. Clinton didn’t encourage or bribe them to take Blackwaters business. It is still a free country (at least until bush is done with us). It does take an EXTREMELY small mind to link the decisions of these free citizens to Clinton’s campaign or her closeness to any legal business entity. Comment by StratRat — October 24, 2007 @ 3:59 pm</em> And if this PR firm represented a Republican candidate, the same troll would be all about free enterprise and free association. The PR firm run by Mark Penn (Hillary Clinton’s top strategist) and Scott Pastrick (former treasurer of the Democratic National Committee) represents Blackwater.

Comment by TCDon

These two people are free citizens. They are able to make their own choices and don’t need Clinton’s blessing to earn a living. Clinton didn’t encourage or bribe them to take Blackwaters business. It is still a free country (at least until bush is done with us).

It does take an EXTREMELY small mind to link the decisions of these free citizens to Clinton’s campaign or her closeness to any legal business entity.

Comment by StratRat — October 24, 2007 @ 3:59 pm

And if this PR firm represented a Republican candidate, the same troll would be all about free enterprise and free association.

]]> By: Loonie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131529 Loonie Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:59:42 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131529 "Support Our Mercenaries!" “Support Our Mercenaries!”

]]> By: Leftside Annie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131528 Leftside Annie Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:59:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131528 Yeah, just like YOUR Christian third party, Donnieboy...? OK. Yeah, just like YOUR Christian third party, Donnieboy…?

OK.

]]> By: Lefty Patriot http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131526 Lefty Patriot Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:59:12 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131526 Good post lefty. You should leave/splinter the Dems and form your own party. Or just try the American Socialist or Green party. Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 4:50 pm any of which could make mincemeat of any of the cross-dressing, lazy, thieving religious whackjobs the GOP has left that are stupid enough to run. Are you ready for a Hillary with unitary executive powers? Where will you go? North Korea? Saudi Arabia? Good post lefty. You should leave/splinter the Dems and form your own party. Or just try the American Socialist or Green party.

Comment by TCDon — October 24, 2007 @ 4:50 pm

any of which could make mincemeat of any of the cross-dressing, lazy, thieving religious whackjobs the GOP has left that are stupid enough to run. Are you ready for a Hillary with unitary executive powers? Where will you go? North Korea? Saudi Arabia?

]]> By: lefty http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131495 lefty Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:48:33 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131495 <em>Comment by tomazulob</em> Personally, I believe that this is one of the main reasons for the domestic wiretapping, to get the goods on political enemies, as well as enforce party discipline. With all the crazy sh1t the GOP has in the closet, it's a piece o' cake to keep them in line. It's not as though the government is shy about blackmailing people. They tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide. Comment by tomazulob

Personally, I believe that this is one of the main reasons for the domestic wiretapping, to get the goods on political enemies, as well as enforce party discipline. With all the crazy sh1t the GOP has in the closet, it’s a piece o’ cake to keep them in line. It’s not as though the government is shy about blackmailing people. They tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide.

]]> By: tomazulob http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/comment-page-1/#comment-4131474 tomazulob Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:41:05 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/10/24/blackwater-talking-points/#comment-4131474 We know the Republicans will accept anything the corporations will throw at them, but why would the Democrats accept the spin? Do they have aides that read blogs, letters, emails, op-eds, etc. to advise the "overworked" Congressmen? I think, perhaps, the fault may lie on an inadequate staff working for Reps and Senators not getting the correct information to their bosses. Or, maybe their bosses are just getting paid off very well. We know the Republicans will accept anything the corporations will throw at them, but why would the Democrats accept the spin? Do they have aides that read blogs, letters, emails, op-eds, etc. to advise the “overworked” Congressmen? I think, perhaps, the fault may lie on an inadequate staff working for Reps and Senators not getting the correct information to their bosses. Or, maybe their bosses are just getting paid off very well.

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