Sen. Graham may oppose Mukasey’s nomination.
By on Oct 29th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Sen. Graham may oppose Mukasey’s nomination.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) may oppose President Bush’s Attorney General nominee if Michael Mukasey says “waterboarding is not torture.” “If he does not believe that waterboarding is illegal, then that would really put doubts in my own mind,” Graham stated. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who also believes waterboarding is torture, suggested yesterday he may still support Mukasey.
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I have yet to see this fook put his vote where his mouth is.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:43 amoh, c’mon… he was whining and hedging all over the place when he said that…
i’m not holding MY breath…
oh, and SHUT THAT CLOSET DOOR!
October 29th, 2007 at 10:44 am…
Graham doesn’t want Mukasey to get the same deal on rugs…
5 for 5!
October 29th, 2007 at 10:46 amAgain, this is a “harsh interrogation method”. Not torture or anything. And when you’re surrounded by the tropical paradise that is southeastern Cuba, do you really care if you feel convinced that you’re drowning and close to death? Probably not.
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
October 29th, 2007 at 10:52 amI suspect that both Graham and McCain are just floating trial balloons to see if they get shot down. By not making any firm commitments, they are still safe if they get summoned by Darth Cheney to “discuss” the matter.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:56 amKnown serial trolls TCDon and exley have soiled TP with their presence this morning. They have been well contained so far.
Please do not feed the trolls.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:59 amNO WAY !
What kind of LIE is that ?
You can have my house if he votes against Bush.
America is really great.
We are voting whether or not :
Torture is *Torture*
October 29th, 2007 at 11:01 amMukasey is clearly a “semantician” in the Bush-Cheney mode. He clearly believes that waterboarding is not torture if the president authorizes it, because if the President authorizes it, it isn’t torture. Only their reasoning is tortured in this process.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:02 am5 - MissMolly - I believe you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.
Republicans are known for SAYING they’ll do the right thing - but when it comes down to the bottom line, they suck at actually DOING the right thing.
G = Grotesque
October 29th, 2007 at 11:04 amO = Oil-rich
P = Panderers
Again, this is a “harsh interrogation methodâ€. Not torture or anything. And when you’re surrounded by the tropical paradise that is southeastern Cuba, do you really care if you feel convinced that you’re drowning and close to death? Probably not.
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
Comment by desaparecido — October 29, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Again, do you work for tshirtinsugency, or are you just promoting their site?
October 29th, 2007 at 11:05 amPLEASE respond!
p.s. Its not torture if *WE* do it.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:05 amI’m not gonna be a poop or anything…..
October 29th, 2007 at 11:07 amHey Whitey,
I responded last time you asked too! Just later in the thread.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:10 amThey’re friends of mine. Cool cats.
INTIYARP.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:10 amIt’s not torture if you’re a Republican President.
Isn’t this just a waste of time, no one will be held accountable for doing exactly as he is directed by the WH no matter what is said today. Who are they fooling ?
October 29th, 2007 at 11:14 amI firmly believe Graham will hold fast to his ideals and not vote for Mukasey if he believes waterboarding is not torture.
I mean, I know Graham always says he’s going to do the right thing, and he pretty much never ever ever ever ever ever ever does…but this time…I got a good feeling.
In related news, I just gave my ex-wife - the one who cleaned out our joint checking account to give to her second husband to become an Amway sales rep - a 25 thousand dollar “handshake” loan with no interest no penalties and no timeline for payment, so she could start her own tattoo parlor with her third husband, who I only know as “Shaky Pete.” I can’t think of Thing One wrong with this arrangement.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:18 amI’d like every U.S. politician who votes to confirm Mukasey to be asked on camera whether they think waterboarding a U.S. pow is ok.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:18 amGraham is a typical liar. He says one thing and does what the crime family asks him to do. This guy is not to be trusted.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:22 amThanks!!! I actually have the Gitmo shirt on order right now(Army colored, of course!!) I tend to get pulled away due to my job from 2 to 20 minutes at a time…
October 29th, 2007 at 11:23 amSo the same guy who thinks GW is spot on with WWIII is going to stand on principal against Mukasey because he hasn’t said waterboarding is torture. Graham stands behind a lunatic but found some “moral” ground against Mukasey.
That holds no water.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:24 amThat’s cool Whitey! I’ll have to tell them they owe me one. Should be good for a free beer at least!
I wear the Gitmo a lot. they gave me a “Your Mom Hates Freedom” shirt the other day and everywhere I went people just looked at me and started cracking up.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:25 amthey gave me a “Your Mom Hates Freedom†shirt the other day and everywhere I went people just looked at me and started cracking up.
Comment by desaparecido — October 29, 2007 @ 11:25 am
This got me thinking of another t-shirt design that you can pass on to your friends:
“Freedom Fries” printed underneath the picture of the Abu Ghraib prisoner hooked up to fake electrodes.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:30 amComment by desaparecido — October 29, 2007 @ 10:52 am
Then let’s waterboard you just for funsies, and see if YOU get through it without squirming or begging us to stop.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:31 amWhoa. Graham says he MAY oppose Mukasey. Not WILL oppose. Weasel Graham will find a way to vote for Mukasey. Mark my word.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:33 amDave C #17, That is a perfect “frame” for the question. Make them answer, see if you here any, “Well, it would depend on the situation…..”
Ask the Chimperor too.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:34 amhear/here… whatever
October 29th, 2007 at 11:34 amso he’s losing his re election predictions. he is about to be outed as gay by Larry “big and tall” Craig. He has finance problems because he has openly courted illegal sources for financing, he has his fingers in a lot of little pies that are going to become known. But not until after the election if they can buy folks off that might expose it. what’s new?
October 29th, 2007 at 11:36 amI’d like every U.S. politician who votes to confirm Mukasey to be asked on camera whether they think waterboarding a U.S. pow is ok.
Comment by Dave C — October 29, 2007 @ 11:18 am
Excellent suggestion. We could even make it a bit personal, and ask “If you were in the military, and were captured by the enemy, would it be acceptable for them to waterboard you?”
October 29th, 2007 at 11:39 amDude, I LOVED that one!! but Gitmo ’spoke to me’
October 29th, 2007 at 11:58 amBad Eye. You clearly didn’t pick up on my sarcasm. switch on your irony detector.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:30 pmComment by desaparecido — October 29, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
Umm…OK. Sorry.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:34 pmFrom an article by Joe Conason: “Just so there can be no mistake about what the Japanese perps were convicted of doing, here is a sliver of the copious testimony that can be found at Law of War, where an excellent essay on waterboarding and American law can be found. It comes from the trial in Manila of Sgt. Maj. Chinsaku Yuki, a Japanese military intelligence officer. The witness is Ramon Lavarro, a Filipino lawyer suspected by the Japanese of providing assistance to resistance forces. “I was ordered to lay on a bench and Yuki tied my feet, hands and neck to that bench lying with my face upward,” Lavarro testified. “After I was tied to the bench Yuki placed some cloth on my face and then with water from the faucet they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”
Major Yuki, a member of the Japanese Imperial military, was executed for war crimes.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:38 pmSen. Graham is about as wishy washy and the next Republican when it comes to going against Darth Cheney and Dubya. If he and McCain don’t want to get waterboarded by Darth Cheney, then they’d better vote to support Mukasey. I mean come on, if some old fart with a darth vadar suit on came and threatened me, I’d pee my pants and vote with him too. No seriously, these guys have no guts at all.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pmIn 1902, following a series of Senate hearings led by Massachusetts Republican Henry Cabot Lodge, the Army tried Maj. Edwin Glenn in a court-martial in the Philippine province of Samar for misconduct and breach of discipline, including “infliction of the water cure” on suspected Filipino insurgents. The “water cure” was their name for water boarding.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:43 pmComment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 29, 2007 @ 12:38 pm
Thanks for that post. I think it’s clear what’s going on here, it’s retroactive cover for the waterboarding that has been going on. Just like the retroactive immunity for the phone companies for participation in illegal spying, these guys can’t admit that waterboarding is torture, because as the ChimpinChief says, “This is America and Americans don’t torture.”
If we now admit that waterboarding is torture, well…shit. I guess we do torture after all.
And spy on our citizens illegally, and hold prisoners with no due process, and start preemptive wars, and torture prisoners, and shoot innocent civilians, and hire mercenaries, and….
We have met the enemy.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:45 pmdesaparecido, for the life of me, I can’t think of anything funny about the fact that people are torturing in our name. It’s a disgrace. We’re disgraced.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:46 pmnanlici: “If we now admit that waterboarding is torture, well…shit. I guess we do torture after all.”
The sad thing is that it is and always has been torture whether or not we want to admit it. We punished our own military for using it in the Phillipine Insurection and imprisoned and/or executed members of the Japanese military for using it during WWII.
Our corporate media has deliberately obfuscated the issue. It should have been obvious. This is what we get with an unregulated corporate-fascist media.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:50 pmSince Mukasey can’t seem to make up his flipflopping mind about waterboarding, he does not deserve to get the nod.
October 29th, 2007 at 12:59 pmWaterboarding is illegal according to the Geneva Conventions on Torture no matter how you dice it. The conversation now should be: How this administration is getting away with torturing while espousing the ridiculous mantra of “We don’t torture, we don’t torture, we don’t torture”. Remember how asynchronous George Tenet’s words were regarding torture. I believe that George was making a point in this Orwellian world of GWB’s - and that is - unless you ask the specific question, you get a canned answer.
Sure, “we” may not be doing the actual torturing; we’re outsourding it to our hired mercenaries. The bottom line is that both the one contracting the outsourcing and the one actually committing the crime are both “culpable” under the law.
We have been torturing which is illegal according to the Geneva Conventions. Wonder where the Red Cross is on this one? I’ve read that they’re preparing a “war crimes tribunal” for the Bush administration for the moment they step out of office.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:02 pmWasn’t it Mukasy who, in the first place, approved the very narrow definition of “torture” when Rummy and Gonzo were trying to bastardize the Geneva Conventions definition of torture?
October 29th, 2007 at 1:04 pmNanlichi: Yes - we have met the enemy and the enemy is “us”.
This group of thugs has squelched our voices in exchange for the illusion of freedom. They’ve ratcheted up the “fear agenda” to provide the appearance that there are “real threats” as opposed to false flag operations, military game stunts, and inside jobs. It’s taken directly from George Orwell’s playbook (1984) coupled with the sick minded fascist doctrines of Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pmUnless the american people wake up (anyone see “Zeitgiest” yesterday - a must see for all!) and begin to recognize precisely whom our real enemies are within, there will be no chance for democracy.
“When the power of love replaces the love of power, only then will we know true peace”…Jimmy Hendrix
October 29th, 2007 at 1:08 pmVeritas: “It’s taken directly from George Orwell’s playbook (1984) coupled with the sick minded fascist doctrines of Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol.”
Yes! People really need to know what we’re dealing with here. Read the central philosophies of Leo Strauss, the “father of modern neoconservatism.” Read about his concepts of “special gentlemen,” an elite class of rulers, who use “noble lies” to fool the majority, which doesn’t know what’s good for it. This is where the neocon elite is coming from and we all need to be clear on that.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:14 pm“desaparecido, for the life of me, I can’t think of anything funny about the fact that people are torturing in our name. It’s a disgrace. We’re disgraced.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — October 29, 2007 @ 12:46 pm”
It’s not funny in a “hahaha” way. It’s funny in a this makes me sick to my stomach way. Hey.. dark humor isn’t for everyone, but it is the only way I’m able to deal with this world and not throw up every ten minutes.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:23 pmLindsey Graham will vote with Bush - he always does. Disregard what he says now. Check his vote later; I am betting he will say “aye.”
October 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pmPoint taken, desaparecido. If I can laugh about nuclear annilation with Stanley Kubrik, I’m in no position to judge your taste in tragicomedy.
October 29th, 2007 at 1:45 pmRegarding Post #32, above, I’m still wondering if there are any conservatives around here who can explain why some of your elected representatives have been publically arguing that waterboarding is not torture? Many of them have been pretty clear on this. Rudy certainly doesn’t think it’s anything to fret about. Do any of you Rudy-supporters have an explanation for this? Let me help you out: at best, this corporatist a-hole you support didn’t even know about executed Japanese soldiers or the Phillipine insurrection and at worst, he does know, and is a dirty liar.
October 29th, 2007 at 4:50 pmIt depends on who is doing the water boarding, if Americans are doing it it is justified but if another nation does it…IT IS TORTURE!
Really, we should be able to understand Bushology by now.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:51 pmBut, as I pointed out, an American Officer was tried and convicted for waterboarding during the Phillipine Insurrection in 1902. Still, I know what you mean. These days it’s evidently because god is on our side, though I think we thought he was in 1902 as well.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:55 pmCome on, trolls. As post #32 points out, we have executed people for waterboarding. We have also tried and convicted an American military officer for waterboarding.
Almost all of your repub candidates have spoken out forcefully in support of this procedure FOR WHICH WE HAVE EXECUTED SOMEONE! Can any of you explain your presidential candidates’ shocking position on torture? How can something for which we have imprisoned a American military officer and executed a Japanese military officer be acceptable today?
October 29th, 2007 at 6:25 pmRet. Col Jack Ripper -
October 29th, 2007 at 7:02 pmYou certainly have boiled it down to the basics. I enjoy reading your posts, always.
Thanks, Marie!
October 29th, 2007 at 7:35 pmI think the Senate should subject Mukasey to a little “waterboarding” session before they even schedule a vote on his nomination. And, anyone in the Senate planning to vote on the nomination who doesn’t think it’s a form of torture should ALSO be subjected to a, let’s say, 30-minute session and see if they *really* think it doesn’t qualify as torture.
October 30th, 2007 at 1:41 am