Cheney Visits Hunting Lodge That Hangs The Confederate Flag
Cheney Visits Hunting Lodge That Hangs The Confederate Flag
Last week, the Poughkeepsie Journal reported that Vice President Dick Cheney was planning to go hunting in upstate New York over the weekend. The paper reported that Cheney would “head to the Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club in LaGrangeville” on Monday morning.
Yesterday, Cheney spent eight hours hunting at the “secluded Hudson Valley gun club where well-heeled enthusiasts shoot ducks and pheasants.” It was his second visit to the club; the previous trip was in fall 2001.
Although Cheney did not shoot anyone on this hunting excursion, the New York Daily News reports that the trip still managed to stir up problems for the Vice President:
Nobody got shot, but Vice President Cheney still fired up controversy Monday when he went hunting at a private club that hangs the Confederate flag.
A Daily News photographer captured the 3-by-5 foot Dixie flag affixed to a door in the garage of the Clove Valley Gun and Rod Club in upstate Union Vale, N.Y.
“It’s appalling for the VP to be at a private club displaying the flag of lynching, hate and murder,” said Rev. Al Sharpton. “It’s the epitome of an insult.”
Cheney spokeswoman Megan Mitchell said, “No one in our office was aware there was such a flag. The vice president did not see a flag, nor did anyone on his staff traveling with him in New York.” The Daily News photographer who took the picture, Howard Simmons, said “the flag was plainly viewable in the strong sunlight streaming toward the garage”, but he also “said it is conceivable the garage door could have been closed when the vice president and his guests were there.”
The Daily News reports that officials with the Clove Valley Rod & Gun Club
belligerently refused to respond to the controversy:
Club officials threatened a reporter with arrest when he sought comment.
The Confederate flag has historically been used by Republican operatives to galvanize conservative activists. While Cheney’s office says it did not see the flag, it has yet to condemn the club for hanging the divisive symbol of hate.
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I’d have to add this to the non-story category. The press wanted Cheney to shoot another old man in the face but he didn’t comply so they had to send something back to put in the ppaper.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:28 amWhen did Upstate New York join the Confederacy?
Maybe about the same time that Southern whites started voting for the GOP.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:28 amI’m shocked, shocked! that there was a flag at this hunting club
anyone seen Casablanca?
October 30th, 2007 at 9:28 amhow do they protect a high-level target like the VP at a hunting lodge? everyone has guns…
October 30th, 2007 at 9:30 amThey made Dick pledge his loyalty to the flag before he could hunt since this cousin Obama thing came up.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:34 amHey, doncha all know that the Confederate Flag has nothing to do with slavery or racism! It’s all about the culture!
Exactly like the Soviet Russian flag had nothing to do with communism, it’s about culture.
Exactly like the Nazi Swastika flag had nothing to do with killing Jews, it’s about culture.
/sarcasm
I think I threw up in my mouth a little while typing my post. Urk!!
October 30th, 2007 at 9:39 amThe Nazi flag is more fitting for mr. 5-deferment Dickhead Cheney.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:39 ami have a neighbor just 1/2 block down the street who has TWO (2) of
these flags hanging from his front porch… seems the whole neighborhood thinks it’s also a meth house too… i can’t figure out why he’s still there…
waiting for the inevitable explosion, i suppose…
lot’s of con. flag stickers and window dressings in trucks around also…
this is ILLINOIS… southern half, but jeesh…
October 30th, 2007 at 9:43 amso embarrassing…
Comment by TCDon — October 30, 2007 @ 9:39 am
Translation from Troll-ese: “Howie Dean did it too!!!”
As a proud southerner, even I know that you don’t need to hang the stars and bars to honor southern culture. All you gotta do is support, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from those who try to overthrow it — like Tricky Dick and his lap puppet Dumbya…
October 30th, 2007 at 9:45 amHow about all the Republicans that fall all over themsleves to support the confederate flag?
“Allen wore a Confederate flag pin for his high school senior class photo. He displayed a Confederate flag in his family’s living room until 1992. Allen has stated that the flag was a part of a collection of flags. In 1993, Allen’s first statewide TV campaign ad for governor included a Confederate flag. Greg Stevens, the political consultant who made the 1993 TV ad, confirmed its inclusion. Allen has confirmed that the pin in his high school yearbook was a Confederate flag. Allen has said “it is possible” that he had a Confederate flag on his car in high school.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(U.S._politician)#Confederate_flag_affinity
“Answering a question that has become a litmus test of sorts for Republicans campaigning in the South, Rudolph W. Giuliani said Tuesday that he would leave the decision about whether to fly the Confederate battle flag over the State Capitol here to the people of Alabama.”
http://www.nytimes.com/ 2007/ 04/ 11/ us/ politics/ 11rudy.html?ref=politics
“It was a stunning Republican breakthrough but one stained by the kind of racial pandering and patriotic demagoguery that has characterized Republican ascendancy in the South. Perdue fastened his underdog campaign to the Confederate flag, and Chambliss, in effect, questioned the patriotism of Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam.”
http://www.sptimes.com/ 2002/ 11/ 17/ news_pf/ Columns/ Georgia_Republicans_p.shtml
“This weekend, the disgusting spectacle of the Confederate flag reared its ugly head once again, this time in Missouri. Republican Governor Matt Blunt ordered the flag to be flown for a day during a memorial service attended at the Confederate Memorial State Historic Site in Higginsville.” http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000192.htm
“Former Republican National Committee Chairman and now Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour wore a lapel pin with the image during his campaign and attended a CCC barbeque in 2003.” http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000192.htm
October 30th, 2007 at 9:50 amCount me among the people who see the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred, racism, and violence. And why it’s posted proudly at a hunting club in New York State is beyond me. At least, in the South, one could make some kind of argument for regional historical pride, culture, or whatever (not that I would buy that) — but when it appears here, it can only represent an “in-your-face” expression of defiance.
That said — I’m looking at where the flag is and how it’s displayed. The sun shines through only part of the flag, and it’s posted inside a garage that the vice president may or may not have been in. It’s entirely possible that Cheney and his party speak the truth when they say they didn’t see it, and I’m inclined to give him a pass due to insufficient evidence that he did.
However, because of the flag and the hostile way the Clove Valley Rod and Gun Club treats the press, I would hope that Cheney finds another location for future hunting trips.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:50 amamen Dogfather! One of the main reasons the ‘South’ went to war was that the ‘North’ was passing laws and trade agreements that unconstitutionally distributed the wealth, and unfairly hurt industry opportunities for the South with restrictions against companies building there…
October 30th, 2007 at 9:53 amI’m glad they are still manufacturing the Confederate battle flag. I plan to buy a BUNCH of them and burn one REGULARLY in PROTEST if the reich-wing nutcases ever pass their flag-burning amendment. Let’s see them make something of THAT!
Sorry for the off-topic rant.
Now on topic: It is no surprise to me that a gun club would have a rebel flag or that upon being questioned, they would be belligerent! That flag probably marks the location of where the Timothy McVeigh branch of the Militia meets.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:53 amNice catch! A Sitting VP in a club that idolizes the Rebellion!
A picture does say a 1,000 words…
October 30th, 2007 at 9:59 amAnd yet, he is still the DNC chief fundraiser. Imagine that.
Comment by TCDon — October 30, 2007 @ 9:39 am
Excellent, your straw man skills are still well ahead of your critical thinking skills. You’re comparing apples and…say, Volkswagens. Nice try, but you’re more transparent than Saran Wrap.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:04 amDick Boy goes to clubs where he can shoot up farm-raised birds.
Since this Clover Valley Rod and Gun club is a farm, does it get agricultural subsidies?
Also, if you go to the NYT’s archive, you will find that already back in 1911 the club was under attack for its farming/shooting methods.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:04 amAnother good, thoughful post from missmolly. She’ll never convert me to “progressive†thinking, but she has gained my respect.
Comment by TCDon — October 30, 2007 @ 9:55 am
No one here thinks you will ever become a progressive thinker, too much regressive thinking shows in your posts for us to ever believe that.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:06 amShe’ll never convert me to “progressive†thinking, but she has gained my respect.
Comment by TCDon — October 30, 2007 @ 9:55 am
so, you’ll never get a fully-functioning brain, and missmolly has the respect of someone whose respect is meaningless. You’re really reaching, and no less an idiot than you ever were. What a creepy tool you are. As if any progressive needs your approval; you forget that you are in an evershrinking, very small, lunatic fringe minority.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:08 amLet’s not also forget that this is a treasonous flag, of a movement to split asunder our union. Why the Republicans think embracing treason is a good thing is a mystery.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:13 amWho is defending a man who says this:
And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?” Cheney said then in response to a question.
“And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we’d achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq.”
I agree with missmolly, Dead eye DICK probably never saw it and it doesn’t have a prominent location.
Great post Democrat Soldier. Showing that the rebel flag is a badge of honor to the republicans. TCDon you still want to defend them?
October 30th, 2007 at 10:18 amThe confederate flag has become a symbol of small minded men who live with fear and hatred. It and they have ties to the current GOP.
The above picture sort of brings the mental giants in “Deliverance” to mind.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:18 amConfederates were the Al Qaeda of their day. Traitors and terrorists and racists.
-GSD
October 30th, 2007 at 10:23 amGo figure; a NAZI at a lodge with a racist symbol on the door, carrying a GUN! I wonder if they have the confederate flag hanging up in the garage of the CFR’s Standard Oil Building in New York? You know, the organization that Cheney was Director of?
Remove Pelosi, Impeach Cheney
How to Declare the Speaker Seat Vacant.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/ 2007/ 10/ 29/ how-to-declare-the-speaker-seat-vacant/
October 30th, 2007 at 10:26 amEvergreen! A “Deliverence” reference! Beautiful!
Cheney: You got a mighty purdy mouth, boy. Squeal like a pig!
Reed: Eeeeeeeeeeee. Eeeeeeeeeeeee.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:29 amWhy the Republicans think embracing treason is a good thing is a mystery.
Comment by AlphaLiberal — October 30, 2007 @ 10:13 am
Mystery solved: Think Republican Southern Strategy and libertarian-style, mindless, mentally-deranged HATRED of our govenment (OF the PEOPLE, BY the PEOPLE, and FOR the PEOPLE).
October 30th, 2007 at 10:33 amhis ancestors owned slaves… he’s a Repig… he goes hunting at a confederate lodge… this is a surprise how?
October 30th, 2007 at 10:36 amThe Confederate flag means different things to different people. Some see it as a symbol of southern pride or southern heritage, while others see it, as pointed out by Missmolly, as a symbol of hatred. Having said that, I think it’s unfair to label ALL displays, and displayers, of the flag as racist and in support of hatred and violence.
The high school I attended from 1980 to 1984 had as its mascot a Rebel, and the Conf. flag was flown at pep rallies, homecoming parades, and ballgames. I had a Conf. flag sticker on my car. There were no problems with this from the community, from the parents, nor from the school officials. To this day there have been no widespread outcries from the community to ban the “Rebel Flag” from the grounds of the school. And let me tell you…the community where I live is very religious and as a result very conscientious of what others think about them; you can’t drive a mile without passing at least two churches.
We saw the Confederate flag as a symbol of southern heritage and nothing more.
As with the American flag, the Confederate flag is a piece of cloth. Nothing more. Hell, we could have a plastic cup as our national symbol, and it wouldn’t be any different. It would still be just that…a piece of plastic. The ideals and beliefs we stand for and support is what counts. Supporters of a flag burning amendment would have us believe that if a few hundred people burn the American flag each year, somehow our great country will be irreparably damaged. This is utter bullshite. If we got rid of every flag that existed, and produced no more, this country, and what it stands for, would still exist. If the existence of our country, and what we believe and stand for, are dependent on a piece of cloth, then we are indeed weak. And we are doomed. The hatred and violence that some believe the Confederate flag represents comes not from a piece of cloth, but from inside those who practice that kind of behavior and harbor those kinds of feelings. Hatred for other people is something that is taught from one generation to the next; we are not born with hate. We are not born racists. A flag cannot hate…it cannot practice violence…any more than my table cloth or door mat can.
Yeah, some could argue that as high school students, we didn’t need a flag in order to display our pride. Well, the same could be said of the American flag. How many people fly the flag attached to their front porch? How many people put out the flag for a few days during the 4th of July, and then put it away in the attic for the rest of the year? Do they really need a flag to show their pride in America? The answer is “no.” But we fly them anyway. We fly the American flag and state flags over our places of business. Why? Because flying flags is part of our culture. It’s what we do. And we are proud of it, no matter what some people may say.
Let me close by saying that this is not in support of issue with the gun club as described above. The reaction of the club to the reporter is inexcusable. What are they trying to hide? Are they racists and if so, are they flying the flag as a symbol of that? If so, then we need to condemn the people, not the flag.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:45 amLet’s not also forget that this is a treasonous flag, of a movement to split asunder our union. Why the Republicans think embracing treason is a good thing is a mystery.
Comment by AlphaLiberal — October 30, 2007 @ 10:13 am
And some people to this day view the purchase of Japanese and German automobiles as treasonous and disrespectful towards our WWII vets.
Is it?
October 30th, 2007 at 10:51 amWhy would somebody in New York state hang the Confederate flag? New York was a Union state during the Civil War, so either the gun club is run by a Southern guy who moved to New York, or the red-neck owner is a damn dumb person who wishes he was a Southerner.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:02 amAnd some people to this day view the purchase of Japanese and German automobiles as treasonous and disrespectful towards our WWII vets.
Is it?
Comment by Bad Eye — October 30, 2007 @ 10:51 am
Only if they are sold emblazoned with a swastika or a rising sun flag.
The war ended over sixty years ago, and the manufacture of these automobiles are not controlled or overseen by the same governments who waged war with us (furthermore, many of these vehicles are made in America, by Americans).
Just as I have no problem with buying products from what was once the Confederate South (after all, I live in North Carolina), I have no problem with buying products from what was once the Third Reich or the pre-1945 Empire of Japan.
I DO have a problem with the symbols of those eras (including their flags) as well as support for what those governments stood for.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:17 amWhy would a murdering war criminal be the least bit concerned about a flag ?
October 30th, 2007 at 11:18 amI’m fairly surprised he doesn’t wear a pointed white hood while hunting.
Comment by Bad Eye — October 30, 2007 @ 10:45 am
________________________
As with most things in an allegedly “free” society, the onus of harmony lies with the person committing the offensive act. Yes - you are free to fly the rebel flag and thus, speak your mind. Yes - you may claim to be displaying the symbol with no intent to harm or offend. Nonetheless, when you display the symbol, you are well aware that in doing so you are causing feelings of fear and loathing among many of your neighbors, who see it as threatening, menacing, ignorant and confrontational. At it’s core, the symbol reflects a time when “your” people were trying to kill “my” people, and vice-versa.
Playing the symbol off as meaning different things to different people is the height of rudness and affront. How many times does someone have to tell you that they are offended by your behavior before it is clear to all that you are just trying to be a dick?
We are free to be selfish. Manners should keep us from exercising that option very often.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:29 amComment by Bad Eye — October 30, 2007 @ 10:45 am
I’m curious—how many black kids attended your high school?
October 30th, 2007 at 11:38 am“Cheney spokeswoman Megan Mitchell said, “No one in our office was aware…”
Truer words have never been spoken.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:39 am#29
“The Confederate flag means different things to different people.”
So do nooses.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:40 amThe Confederate flag means different things to different people. Some see it as a symbol of southern pride or southern heritage, while others see it, as pointed out by Missmolly, as a symbol of hatred. Having said that, I think it’s unfair to label ALL displays, and displayers, of the flag as racist and in support of hatred and violence.
Comment by Bad Eye — October 30, 2007 @ 10:45 am
I agree that it’s unfair to label all displayers of the Confederate flag as racists. I’m sure many people who use the flag do so as an expression of pride in their Southern heritage.
As a resident of the South, I wish people would find some other way to express their pride. The South has so many things going for it — why in the world do people need to use such an antiquated and divisive symbol? It’s not like this flag has a long and rich history of flying over the South. It was only active for less than four years.
I “get” that there are people who see this flag as part of their heritage — with no negative connotations. And if they are using it to commemorate ancestors lost in the Civil War, that seems logical.
However, there are many people who see this flag as a symbol of rebellion, violence, racism, treason, and hatred. Just as we see the Nazi swastika. The fact that the Confederate flag has been co-opted by white supremacist groups and the “when they pry my cold dead fingers” crowd doesn’t do anything to make its use more acceptable.
This flag belongs in museums, as it’s definitely part of our country’s history. But it has become an inappropriate symbol of pride, and should not be used as such.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:44 amThey needed to throw up something to cover up the swastika on the wall and the only thing they had to do it with was the Confederate flags. See they were just trying to be good. If they’d known the media would show up they would have taken down the swastika and put up a portrait of W.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:48 amIf they’d known the media would show up they would have taken down the swastika and put up a portrait of W.
Comment by Shayne — October 30, 2007 @ 11:48 am
Basically changing nothing.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:51 amI still haven’t heard how he did on his trip? The birds are really flying around my house lately. We got our limit in 2 hours Saturday. Deer hunting starts this weekend and I already got my sights on a big buck. Glad to hear he didn’t shot someone this trip.
October 30th, 2007 at 11:57 amShe’ll never convert me to “progressive†thinking, but she has gained my respect.
Comment by TCDon — October 30, 2007 @ 9:55 am
TCDon routinely mistakes us for people who give a shit what he thinks.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:00 pmSure Bad Eye, and the Nazi flag is just a symbol of German pride.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:07 pmWell, Dicky doesn’t respect the symbolism of the flag of The United States of America.
October 30th, 2007 at 12:33 pmWhen I heard he was coming to my area, my first thought was to yell “DUCK!”. Then I worried he might say “What duck? Where?” and just start shooting at anything that moved. I grew up in hunting country and have no problem with folks hunting for food - there are still some people who need to do that - or self-defense. I have no tolerance fo those who kill - anything - when they don’t need to. When was the last time you were that hungry or needed a shotgun to defend yourself from a vicious, well-armed quail, pheasant or turkey?
October 30th, 2007 at 1:09 pmHe can have his confederate flag, I got my Che gallery
October 30th, 2007 at 1:52 pm.
Sorry excuse of a patriotic American to hang on to and espouse antithetical beliefs. Such is the symbol of the Confederate flag. It has long ago, been determined that the Confederate flag IS NOT an American symbol of Freedom. Yet look at Cheney today.
.
October 30th, 2007 at 1:54 pmPlaying the symbol off as meaning different things to different people is the height of rudness and affront. How many times does someone have to tell you that they are offended by your behavior before it is clear to all that you are just trying to be a dick?
We are free to be selfish. Manners should keep us from exercising that option very often.
Comment by Marcus Aurelius — October 30, 2007 @ 11:29 am
Sorry, but the flag does mean different things to different people.
If today’s Native Americans banded together and demanded that the American flag be replaced because they viewed it as a symbol of a nation and a government that oppressed and murdered their ancestors, simply because the white man saw himself as the superior race and felt he had a right to steal their land, would you agree to that? And if your answer is “Oh, that’s different,” then HOW is it different?
What if the KKK had adopted the American flag as it’s symbol instead of the Stars and Bars? Would you view Old Glory as a symbol of hatred and racism? Would you still deny that a flag can mean different things to different people?
I also guess my high school and its 1300 students per year, as well as the staff and administration, and the members of the county school board, were some of the most rude people around and some of the biggest dicks (the females surely would get a kick out of that). I suppose if we got rid of the flag yet kept the Rebel mascot, all decked out in his Confederate uniform and displayed inside and outside the school, nothing would change, so he’ll have to go, too.
We also have in our area many Confederate battle and encampment re-enactments in our area on a yearly basis. Should these be banned? After all, they glorify and remind people of the hatred and racism and treason that was rampant in this part of the country that occurred over 200 years ago. What’s ironic is that our area of TN was pro-Union, so it’s probably a miracle that these re-enactments are allowed to occur at all.
And in case you are wondering, there are many black people among our population. But here’s the difference: a majority of people in our community have been able to move beyond the past. People here realize that the choice to display the Confederate flag in our school was NOT an affront to them, it is not an attempt to embarrass anyone in our community, that there was no maliciousness involved.
October 30th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI’m curious—how many black kids attended your high school?
Comment by bob lahblah — October 30, 2007 @ 11:38 am
In the 4 years I was there, one black kid attended. He was there for 2 years, as I recall.
Imagine that…1 black kid among 1299 white kids. My gosh, combined with our obvious love of hatred and racism and treason symbolized by our display of the Confederate flag, it’s a wonder he survived the first day of school.
It was just the opposite. I had a drafting class with this kid. Nobody ever gave him any trouble. No one hung any nooses around the school or outside in the trees. Everyone treated him with respect, and in reality, being the only black kid, many of the other students treated him as if he were a celebrity.
October 30th, 2007 at 2:36 pmHow many Jews?
October 30th, 2007 at 3:28 pmTo say they weren’t aware is another lie in Cheney’s long history of lying. Do they really expect people to believe that the VP’s detail didn’t thoroughly check the place out? Do they expect us to believe that this place doesn’t have any particular reputation with in the hunting community? It just keeps getting stupider and stupider.
October 30th, 2007 at 3:35 pmI’m guessing the reason why the hunting club flies the confederate flag is because it is a symbol of white supremecy. There is a clear connection between the NRA and the KKK: the NRA was founded the year the KKK was declared an illegal organization.
October 30th, 2007 at 4:28 pmIf memory serves, didn’t Cheney oppose making “Martin Luther King Jr” Day a National Holiday?
October 30th, 2007 at 5:20 pmDamn the Dukes of Hazzard to Hell!!
October 30th, 2007 at 9:07 pmTo those who are wondering why anyone would hang a rebel flag in NY:
It is upstate NY, guys. Ever been there? Might as well divorce it from NYC and rename it “North Texas” or something… that’s kinda what they want, anyway. Not that anyone up here would be taken by a real Southerner, probably, but there’s a massive population of stupids in this state. It is really mind-boggling.
And yes, in a lot of NY’s rural towns, you can usually find at least one rebel flag. The last place I lived in had ‘em, though I can’t see why, given the town’s colorful Irish and Italian immigrant history. The KKK in Hornell, NY was thrown out by an angry mob of Catholics (a way long time ago). Must be they missed a few. *shrug*
October 30th, 2007 at 10:08 pmBeyond the one black kid in our school (and there have been others since 1984), a rival city school had a black population of about 40%. Their total school population was a couple hundred more than ours, and many black students participated in sports. In all the years we played this school in sports (going on 29 now), no one from that school has demanded that the “Rebel flag” be removed from their sight when they visit our school. No one from the city has petitioned the county to have the flag removed. When they visit our school, the last thing on their minds is what flag we fly; they are there to kick the teams’ ass, which they have done quite successfully over the years, esp. in football, and to assert bragging rights in the community.
Look, guys, I just offer a different perspective on things, one that I doubt many of you, if any at all, had the chance to experience. You can like my take on things, or not.
October 31st, 2007 at 4:56 am