Gillespie Claims ‘We Don’t Know’ Whether The Bush Administration Practices Waterboarding
Gillespie Claims ‘We Don’t Know’ Whether The Bush Administration Practices Waterboarding
Today on CNN, White House adviser Ed Gillespie defended attorney general nominee Michael Mukasey’s legal dodge on whether waterboarding constitutes torture. Mukasey called the technique “hypothetical.”
Gillespie similarly tried to claim that waterboarding doesn’t exist. “[F]irst of all, this technique, we don’t know that it’s used by the government or is used by the government,” he said. “That’s never been confirmed by the U.S. government.”
Host John Roberts called out Gillespie’s dodge, noting, “It’s widely held that waterboarding was what broke Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to get him to divulge all of the information that he had.” Gillespie simply replied, “[T]he fact is the government doesn’t confirm techniques regardless of whether they’re used or not used.” Watch it:
While Bush administration officials have refused to publicly say whether or not they waterboard detainees, CIA officials have repeatedly told the media that they have carried out this torture. Some examples:
– In one of the administration’s most high-profile cases, al Qaeda mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed reportedly endured waterboarding two minutes — “far longer than any of the other ‘high-value’ terror targets who were subjected to the technique.” A former CIA officer called it an “extraordinary amount of time for him to hold out.”
– In
20052002, the CIA subjected Ibn al Shaykh al Libbi to weeks of “enhanced interrogation.” CIA officials stated that he “finally broke after being water boarded and then left to stand naked in his cold cell overnight where he was doused with cold water at regular intervals.”– In 2002, “a presidential finding” authorized a list of CIA interrogation techniques, including waterboarding. In 2005, current and former CIA officials confirmed to ABC News that they were trained to waterboard detainees, which entailed “handcuff[ing] the prisoner and cover[ing] his face with cellophane to enhance the distress.”
Gillespie also tried to insist that waterboarding is legal, claiming that “those who have been briefed on the program in the United States Senate, members of the Intelligence Committee and others who are familiar with the program, have said that it is legal.” Yet as Raw Story points out, earlier this month Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) said that they don’t know the details about the administration’s interrogation practices because officials have “refused to turn over key legal documents since day one.”
Transcript:
GILLESPIE: No. In fact, Judge Mukasey is well regarded, well respected across the aisle. In fact, in consultations with senators before coming forward with the nominee, Judge Mukasey’s name was raised by Democrat and Republican alike, and he has been lauded for his independent nature, for his thorough and careful review of the law. And we see that in the letter he sent to the Judiciary Committee in response to their question about waterboarding yesterday.
ROBERTS: Well, I guess what you see depends on your perspective, because yesterday the Democrats saw what they thought was evasion. You know, it’s on this critical issue of waterboarding.
Mukasey said that personally he thought it’s over the line and repugnant, but then he got a little gray on the legal aspects here, saying, A legal opinion based on hypothetical facts and circumstances may be of some limited academic appeal but has scant practical effect or value.
The Democrats were looking for a clear disavow here. Why couldn’t be he absolutely clear on this issue?
GILLESPIE: Well, John, let’s understand, first of all, this technique, we don’t know that it’s used by the government or is used by the government. That’s never been confirmed by the U.S. government.
The program that it involves, the Enhanced Interrogation Program, is a classified program. Now, members of the United States Senate have been briefed on the program, and they have said that it is — it complies with all laws, but Judge Mukasey has not. And as a nominee, he does not have the ability to be briefed on a classified program as members of the Senate do.
And so his point was, if confirmed, I will review this program and I will review all of the underpinnings in terms of the legality of it and come back to you with a judgment. And here is how I would look at it. And it’s unfair to ask him to render a legal opinion on something. He offered his personal opinion, but he can’t render a legal opinion on something he has not been briefed on.
By the way, the members of the Senate are asking the judge to do something in this nomination process which the Senate itself hasn’t done. Less than a year ago, John, there was a vote on the floor of the Senate as to whether or not to apply the Army field manual regulations that applied to the Department of Defense and military detainees across the government, and it was rejected by the Senate 53- 46.
ROBERTS: Right.
GILLESPIE: Now they’re asking him to make a determination that the Senate itself didn’t make less than a year ago. It’s not — it’s not really fair to ask him to render a legal opinion without sufficient information.
ROBERTS: Ed, you said just a second ago that you can’t confirm or deny whether waterboarding has been used. It’s widely held that waterboarding was what broke Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to get him to divulge all of the information that he had.
What is your sense? Is waterboarding legal?
GILLESPIE: The fact is that those who have been briefed on the program in the United States Senate, members of the Intelligence Committee and others who are familiar with the program, have said that it is legal. And those are the ones who would have a basis to know.
But the fact is the government doesn’t confirm techniques regardless of whether they’re used or not used. They don’t rule in or out, because the idea is not to help terrorists who would mean to do us harm, know what to train or not train for.
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Nice .........I had posted some quotes from this creep in the previous thread .........
This administration is a nightmare from which the US , if we ever recover , will have historians shaking their heads in disbelief on what was allowed to go on endlessly and without interference or intervention ...........
October 31st, 2007 at 11:42 pmWe didn't do it. But if we did do it, it's legal. And if it isn't legal, it's necessary. But anyway we didn't do it. At least you can't prove we did it because we won't tell you that we did. And some people say it is legal and those are the only people that matter. But it doesn't matter because we didn't do it. Because even though it isn't torture, we didn't do it. Because I'm telling you we didn't do it. And if we did do it, I couldn't tell you because it's a secret. Not that we are admitting to having a secret, but if we did have a secret it would be super secret because we're Secret People. If I told you we did it, I'd have to waterboard you. So, obviously, everything is fine here.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:52 pmAdd Gillespie's reprehensible statement about water boarding to the overlapping travesties and scandals of the worst president in US history. The mind literally boggles at what Gillespie said today.
But that's not all. Check out the earlier TP story about Gen. Petraeus and his new best friend Ahmad Chalabi, who is now positioned, with the support of Petraeus, to be "a central figure in US plans for Iraq.
Blackwater, Mukasey, Chalabi, Petraeus. Will this nightmare never end?
October 31st, 2007 at 11:52 pmI really hope camera phones have a higher resolution by the time Bush and company are hung for war crimes.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:55 pmI really hope camera phones have a higher resolution by the time Bush and company are hung for war crimes.
Comment by Vanthomas — October 31, 2007 @ 11:55 pm
I'm going to go and see it in person.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:58 pmJust the fact that many administration officials and Mukaskey are defending waterboarding as "not necessarily torture" indicates that our government has been engaging in this torturous activity.
Why else would they try to defend the practice?
This makes me sick.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:07 amjust another kool-aid carrier who sucks the bushco teat like it was life giving oxygen.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:08 am“..those who have been briefed on the program in the United States Senate, members of the Intelligence Committee and others who are familiar with the program, have said that it is legal.â€
I don't doubt that key congressional democrats were made aware of, and condoned, the practice of torture. Rockefeller's contention that he "hasn't seen the documents" is insulting. I've come to see the light where that party is concerned- the notion that it represents the "lesser of two evils" is a myth embraced by the simple minded.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:08 ambushco tortures and bushco apologists, neocons and righties see nothing wrong with torture. The right wing is subsumed with a "Jack Bauer" mentality, brought about by their total and complete failure to understand human nature, coupled with their utter disdain for the Geneva Convention.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:16 am(10-25-06) Cheney confirms that detainees were subjected to water-boarding: Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning. Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview. Cheney's comments, in a White House interview on Tuesday with a conservative radio talk show host, appeared to reflect the Bush administration's view that the president has the constitutional power to do whatever he deems necessary to fight terrorism. Continued here
Conduct unbecoming a country: This Is What Waterboarding Looks Like
November 1st, 2007 at 12:24 amWhoops! The second link is 404. Try this one.
This Is What Waterboarding Looks Like
November 1st, 2007 at 12:29 amGillespie is yet another Repub creep who crawled out from under a rock. Funny how these creeps bashed the hell out of President Clinton because he got caught lying about an affair, yet here they are, the "holier then thou club" splitting hairs with their "what the meaning of is, is" obfuscations.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:30 amWaterbaording was considered torture when the Spanish Inquisitors, Nazis and Imperialist Japanese did it.
Those are three evil institutions I do not want my country associated with.
I don’t doubt that key congressional democrats were made aware of, and condoned, the practice of torture.
Comment by Long Tooth — November 1, 2007 @ 12:08 am
It is AMAZING to me that some would believe the dissembling of Gillespie, the lying weasel, BEFORE we ASK the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, IF they were, in fact, BRIEFED and IF they AGREED that waterboarding is LEGAL.
Rockerfeller is a Blue Dog, so it IS necessary to check out EVERYTHING he says, simply because he IS a Blue Dog. But not EVERY Democratic member of the Senate Intelligence Committee is a Blue Dog.
Let's ask ALL the Democratic members of the Committee BEFORE we believe a lying weasel!
November 1st, 2007 at 12:41 amGillespie also tried to insist that waterboarding is legal, claiming that “those who have been briefed on the program in the United States Senate, members of the Intelligence Committee and others who are familiar with the program, have said that it is legal.†Yet as Raw Story points out, earlier this month Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) said that they don’t know the details about the administration’s interrogation practices because officials have “refused to turn over key legal documents since day one.â€
-------------------------------------------------
When in the hell is anyone from the MSM going to stand up at a Chimpy English-butchering press conference and ask him for specifics on this type of insanity ?
Someone in the paragraph above is lying ; who is it ? Why ? And for what reason/purpose ?
Jesus Christ , what the hell is the point of having a media if they're all there just to chuckle whenever our imbecilic Chimperor-In-Chief thinks he made a funny ..........................?
BTW
What did the host from CNN , John Roberts , use to prepare for this interview ?
A coloring book ? An Etch-A-Sketch ?
After he asks the walking pile of fecal matter Gillespie if waterboarding is indeed legal and the idiot replies that it is ; where is Roberts' follow-up where he asks "In what country and/or how ? The US is a signer of the Geneva Peace Treaty , which makes it US law and which in it specifically states that waterboarding is indeed torture , thus rendering it illegal. How can you claim differently ?"
I know High School students that would know enough to follow up with another question to a schmuck from the Chimpy administration claiming anything ; much less the legality of something specific like waterboarding ........SHIT
November 1st, 2007 at 12:47 amWaterboarding doesn't exist.....but it's legal.
What a dumbass.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:50 amOK Ed. Maybe I can help here. If its illegal and it hurts, and its counterproductive, well you can be certain the clown prince is ordering it done. Alright? Glad to be of help.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:52 amWaterboarding doesn’t exist…..but it’s legal.
What a dumbass.
Comment by Zooey — November 1, 2007 @ 12:50 am
In layman's terms .........
Don't believe anything you hear from anyone else ; just believe everything we tell you.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:52 amDon’t believe anything you hear from anyone else ; just believe everything we tell you.
Comment by MCMetal — November 1, 2007 @ 12:52 am
I divorced a guy for that kind of shit. I wish I could divorce these morons.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:57 amUS Army intelligence sure as hell does not condone water boarding. Nor do the JAGs of all the military services, who have opposed Bush/Gonzales/Rumsfeld's promotion of using torture to obtain information from detainees.
Retired MI officer
November 1st, 2007 at 12:59 amDon’t believe anything you hear from anyone else ; just believe everything we tell you.
Comment by MCMetal — November 1, 2007 @ 12:52 am
I divorced a guy for that kind of shit. I wish I could divorce these morons.
Comment by Zooey — November 1, 2007 @ 12:57 am
I wish I could play "White House bouncer" , and just pitch them all out of there , right on there stupid asses back towards Texas......
November 1st, 2007 at 1:00 amUS Army intelligence sure as hell does not condone water boarding. Nor do the JAGs of all the military services, who have opposed Bush/Gonzales/Rumsfeld’s promotion of using torture to obtain information from detainees.
Retired MI officer
Comment by Lt. Colonel Fred Seamon — November 1, 2007 @ 12:59 am
November 1st, 2007 at 1:01 amUmmm , doesn't matter who "condones" it or whatever ; it is simply illegal .........If you're performing it , you're breaking the law ; it's really that simple.
I wish I could play “White House bouncer†, and just pitch them all out of there , right on there stupid asses back towards Texas……
Comment by MCMetal — November 1, 2007 @ 1:00 am
I wish you could too. :(
November 1st, 2007 at 1:07 amI wish I could play “White House bouncer†, and just pitch them all out of there , right on there stupid asses back towards Texas……
Comment by MCMetal — November 1, 2007 @ 1:00 am
I wish you could too. :(
Comment by Zooey — November 1, 2007 @ 1:07 am
And I would .............I'd save Chimpy and Cheney as the last 2 , though .......For "posterity's sake"
November 1st, 2007 at 1:09 am.
And how much does Gillespie take on his pay to tell tells?
Gillespie's PAID to say...
And John is PAID to play... along...
I wish I could play “White House bouncer†, and just pitch them all out of there , right on there stupid asses back towards Texas……
Comment by MCMetal — November 1, 2007 @ 1:00 am
I would pitch them back to Iraq. Then they'd learn.
November 1st, 2007 at 1:22 amhttp://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1356870
The water board technique dates back to the 1500s during the Italian Inquisition. A prisoner, who is bound and gagged, has water poured over him to make him think he is about to drown.
Current and former CIA officers tell ABC News that they were trained to handcuff the prisoner and cover his face with cellophane to enhance the distress. According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a “very exquisite torture†that should be outlawed.
“Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering,†said John Sifton, an attorney and researcher with the organization Human Rights Watch. “That would include water boarding.â€
…
Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam 40 years ago. A photograph that appeared in The Washington Post of a U.S. soldier involved in water boarding a North Vietnamese prisoner in 1968 led to that soldier’s severe punishment.
“The soldier who participated in water torture in January 1968 was court-martialed within one month after the photos appeared in The Washington Post, and he was drummed out of the Army,†recounted Darius Rejali, a political science professor at Reed College.
Earlier in 1901, the United States had taken a similar stand against water boarding during the Spanish-American War when an Army major was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for water boarding an insurgent in the Philippines.
“Even when you’re fighting against belligerents who don’t respect the laws of war, we are obliged to hold the laws of war,†said Rejali. “And water torture is torture.â€
November 1st, 2007 at 3:08 amWhat is the second word in the term "Water Torture?"
November 1st, 2007 at 3:09 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_torture
Water torture
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Water torture is torture using water, which can take several forms. Because no external marks are left on victims of water torture, it has been a favoured method of torture in various countries and political regimes.
The torture has notably been used against political prisoners
Contents
* 1 Forced ingestion
* 2 Terror of drowning
* 3 Whipping
* 4 Dripping water
* 5 Dunking
* 6 Other
* 7 Sources and notes
Terror of drowning
Main article: Waterboarding
Waterboarding refers to a technique involving water poured over the face or head of the subject, in order to evoke the instinctive fear of drowning.
November 1st, 2007 at 3:12 amGillespie is engaged in precisely the type of "Reality Creation" that Karl Rove warned journalist Ron Suskind about in this interview. They said exactly what they were going to do (as an empire), and they are doing it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1151899200&en=079d03a2a9db7c23&ei=5070
It was during a press conference on Sept. 16, 2001, in response to a question about homeland security efforts infringing on civil rights, that Bush first used the telltale word ''crusade'' in public. ''This is a new kind of -- a new kind of evil,'' he said. ''And we understand. And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.''
In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.
The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.'' When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm not going to debate it with you.''
November 1st, 2007 at 3:16 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
Waterboarding
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water and induce the sensation of drowning. Waterboarding has been used to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. In contrast to merely submerging the head, waterboarding elicits the gag reflex, and can make the subject believe death is imminent while leaving no physical damage.
The practice garnered renewed attention and notoriety in September 2006, when further reports charged that the Bush administration had authorized the use of waterboarding on extrajudicial prisoners of the United States, often referred to as "detainees" in the U.S. war on terror. ABC News reported that current and former CIA officers stated that "there is a presidential finding, signed in 2002, by President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft approving the 'enhanced' interrogation techniques, including water boarding." According to Republican United States Senator John McCain, who was tortured as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, waterboarding is "torture", "no different than holding a pistol to his head and firing a blank" and can damage the subject's psyche "in ways that may never heal."
November 1st, 2007 at 3:21 amRove has studied Goebbels and the nephew of Frued, Bernays, and come up with a way to sell fascism to unwitting US citizens. Please learn and protect yourself and your family and friends from Fascism.
Please see this quick video about HOW TO BRAINWASH A NATION.
In this seven-minute excerpt from "The Century of the Self" a four hour film series by Adam Curtis, you'll get a quick lesson about how sophisticated the mass brainwashing of the American people has been and how long it's been going on.
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/08/how-to-brainwash-
http://www.swans.com/library/art7/ga120.html
Propaganda NOW AND THEN by Gilles D'Amrey
BushCo. and Rove INNOCULATES the United States citizens against the words that describe them, rendering our language MEANINGLESS. 1984, Orwell.
http://www.swans.com/library/art7/ga120.html
November 1st, 2007 at 3:22 am“Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one’s self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all.â€
Michael Rivera
November 1st, 2007 at 3:23 amPsyOps Operative:
Michael A. Aquino (1946-)
Michael A. Aquino, U.S. Army officer and founder of the Temple of Set, is a graduate of the University of California, Santa Barbara (B.A., 1968; Ph.D., 1980). In 1968 he joined the army as a specialist in psychological warfare. The next year he joined the Church of Satan. His career in the church was put on hold while he served a tour of duty in Vietnam, but shortly after his return to the United States in 1971, he was ordained as a Satanic priest and organized a group (termed a grotto) that met at his home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aquino
MindWar. “From PSYOP to MindWar: The Psychology of Victoryâ€. Co-authored with Colonel Paul Vallely, this [in]famous “thinking paper†examines U.S. Psychological Operations (PSYOP) doctrine as of 1980 and proposes evolutionary and effective changes. Contains a 2003 Introduction discussing the paper in its original - and appropriate - context.
Psychological Operations: The Ethical Dimension. Research paper while a student at the Industrial College of the Armed Forces, National Defense University, 1987. An in-depth examination of the ethics, from the personal to the national, which are of essential and crucial importance to any responsible, honorable, and respectable use of PSYOP.
Religious/Initiatory
The Church of Satan. Fifth Edition, 2002. A documentary history of the 1966-1975 Church of Satan. [Note: This is a very large file: 9.4mb.]
The Temple of Set. Companion to The Church of Satan, this is more of a personal memoir of the Temple 1975-1996 than a history, as the development of the Temple was far more multifaceted, and multiindividual, than that of the Church. This book is currently in writing, and successive drafts of it will be progressively uploaded here until the entire work is complete. At this time Draft #6 is available.
http://www.xeper.org/maquino/
November 1st, 2007 at 3:24 amRead/Learn/Educate Others:
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
November 1st, 2007 at 3:26 amJFK warned us about Poppy Bush, his co-conspirators and his spawn - and paid the ultimate price:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C4cqSXtj9ak
November 1st, 2007 at 4:02 amMake all torture illegal. if the agent truly stops a ticking timbomb with his actions, no jury of 12 americans would unanimously agree to punish him.
its as simple as that.
just because you make something illegal doesnt automatically send anyone that does it straight to jail.
November 1st, 2007 at 4:53 amOkay, so Ed Gillespie is a professional liar. What else is new?
November 1st, 2007 at 5:07 amThe ticking time bomb scenario does not exist. It is ludicrous. You would have to know there was a ticking time bomb. You would have to know who knows where the time bomb ticks. You would have to get them into custody. The time bomb would be ticking away. All they would have to do is tell you lies until the time bomb goes off. By the time you checked out the lies it would be too late anyway. Anyone who believes in this kind of scenario is a certified dumbsh*t.
November 1st, 2007 at 5:12 amWe go on and on and on and on about torture while we are about to see another annihilation of a country, Iran. And why is the American military about to destroy the nation of Iran? Here is a good explanation...
November 1st, 2007 at 6:04 amhttp://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/31/4914/
Happy Halloween from the Ghouls running America.
Ray McGovern steps up to the DEFENSE OF AMERICA where no politician DARES!
Published on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 by CommonDreams.org
Attacking Iran for Israel?
by Ray McGovern
excerpts:
Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice is at her mushroom-cloud hyperbolic best, and this time Iran is the target. Her claim last week that “the policies of Iran constitute perhaps the single greatest challenge to American security interests in the Middle East and around the world†is simply too much of a stretch.
To gauge someone’s reliability, one depends largely on prior experience. Sadly, Rice’s credibility suffers in comparison with Mohammed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Basing his judgment on the findings of IAEA inspectors in Iran, ElBaradei reports that there is no evidence of an active nuclear weapons program there.
If this sounds familiar it is, in fact, déjà vu. ElBaradei said the same thing about Iraq before it was attacked. But three days before the invasion, American nuclear expert Dick Cheney told NBC’s Tim Russert, “I think Mr. ElBaradei is, frankly, wrong.â€
Here we go again. As in the case of Iraq, US intelligence has been assiduously looking for evidence of a nuclear weapons program in Iran; but, alas, in vain.
Snip
Cat Out of the Bag
The Israeli ambassador to the US, Sallai Meridor, let the cat out of the bag while speaking at the American Jewish Committee luncheon on Oct. 22. In remarks paralleling those of Rice, Meridor said Iran is the chief threat to Israel. Heavy on the chutzpah, he then served gratuitous notice on Washington that countering Iran’s nuclear ambitions will take a “united United States in this matter,†lest the Iranians conclude, “come January ‘09, they have it their own way.â€
Meridor stressed that “very little time†remained to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. How so? Even were there to be a nuclear program hidden from the IAEA, no serious observer expects Iran to obtain a nuclear weapon much sooner than five years from now.
Truth be told, every other year since 1995 US intelligence has been predicting that Iran could have a nuclear weapon in about five years. It has become downright embarrassing-like a broken record, punctuated only by so-called “neo-conservatives†like James Woolsey, who in August publicly warned that the U.S. may have no choice but to bomb Iran in order to halt Tehran’s nuclear weapons program.
Woolsey, self-described “anchor of the Presbyterian wing of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs,†put it this way: “I’m afraid that within, well, at worst, a few months; at best, a few years; they [the Iranians] could have the bomb.â€
The Israelis appear convinced they have extracted a promise from Bush and Cheney that they will help Israel nip Iran’s nuclear program in the bud before they leave office. That is why the Israeli ambassador says there is “very little timeâ€-less than 15 months.
Snip
The real rationale is reminiscent of the one revealed by Philip Zelikow, confidant of Condoleezza Rice, former member of the President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, and later executive director of the 9/11 Commission. On Oct. 10 2002, Zelikow said this to a crowd at the University of Virginia:
“Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I’ll tell you what I think the real threat is-it’s the threat to Israel. And this is the threat that dare not speak its name…the American government doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell.â€
Snip
How about Congress? Could it act as a brake on Bush and Cheney? Forget it. If the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) with its overflowing coffers supports an attack on Iran, so will most of our spineless lawmakers. Already, AIPAC has succeeded in preventing legislation that would have required the president to obtain advance authorization for an attack on Iran.
And for every Admiral Fallon, there is someone like the inimitable retired Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney, a close associate of James Woolsey, “cakewalk†Ken Adelman and other “neo-cons.†The air campaign “will be easy,†says McInerney, a FOX pundit who was a rabid advocate of shock and awe over Iraq. “Ahmadinejad has nothing in Iran that we can’t penetrate,†he adds, and several hundred aircraft, including stealth bombers, will be enough to do the trick:
“Forty-eight hours duration, hitting 2,500 aim points to take out their nuclear facilities, their air defense facilities, their air force, their navy, their Shahab-3 retaliatory missiles, and finally their command and control. And then let the Iranian people take their country back.â€
And the likely White House rationale for war? Since, particularly with the fiasco of Iraq as backdrop, it will be a hard sell to promote the idea of an imminent threat from a nuclear-armed Iran, the White House PR machine has already begun focusing on other “evidenceâ€- amorphous so far-indicating that Iran is supporting those who are “killing our troops in Iraq.â€
The scary thing is that Cheney is more likely to use the McInerneys and Woolseys than the Fallons and Caseys in showing the president how “easily†it can all be done-Cakewalk II.
End Excerpt:
For those of you who remain unaware of the truth, Israel is now blackmailing the leaders of the United States to bomb Iran by the end of the Bush term – “OR ELSE.â€
Israel has ALL THE EVIDENCE of the administrations direct role in 9/11, the anthrax attacks, the bombings in Spain and London, an various other false alarms tied to the color-coded terror threat system.
Israel quite literally controls the United States.
November 1st, 2007 at 7:12 amAll they would have to do is tell you lies until the time bomb goes off. By the time you checked out the lies it would be too late anyway. Anyone who believes in this kind of scenario is a certified dumbsh*t.
Comment by VerbalKint — November 1, 2007 @ 5:12 am
One of the commentators on Diane Rehm yesterday said that we can only get actionable information from a detainee in the first 24-48 hours after capture. After that, all we're getting is historical information. Makes you wonder what kind of historical trivia we've been learning from people who've been at Gitmo for five years or more.
November 1st, 2007 at 7:49 amGillespie is a known liar.
He lied live on NPR regarding SCHIP and they busted his sorry ass on the air.
He is a part of the culture of Republican propaganda.
November 1st, 2007 at 7:55 amso if i have a bumpersticker that says "WATERBOARD GEORGE BUSH" the secret service won't bother me?
sure.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:17 amEd Gillespie, in his own view, is another good Chistian I suspect. I hope he is waterboarded in Heaven ( or hell ).
November 1st, 2007 at 8:20 amThe Republican screw-up cycle:
1. Deny you screwed up. When the screw-up can no longer be denied:
2. Say the screw-up was not really a screw-up. When it's proven to be a complete screw-up:
3. Blame the Democrats.
4. Repeat.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:21 ammore chickensh!t rightard namestealing today; this is my first post.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:31 amGeorge Bush isn't a suspected terrorist, he is a real one. Waterboard him; he'd last 6 seconds, pussy that he is.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:31 am54 is another coward namestealer. Republicans can't ever win unless they hide and cheat.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:32 amRobotic rightists is much more accurate, 54. otherwise, Bush the traitor would have been hanged by now. Only an idiotic wingnut lemming populace would still support the guy that allowed successful terror attacks an 9/11.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:33 amSo, there you go, righty coward at 59. Hiding as usual. Nothing ike wingnut cowardice to make sure you lose the wars you start. history will make the same example of you as Hitler; insane cowards and losers.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:37 ammr p ran out of meds again. call your mommy, p.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:38 am62, you're the reason Bush is losing his war. cowards like you can only hide, and are completely incapable of defending themselves or their country. but, thanks for '06, and in advance for '08, now that 70% of America knows how much you hate them. Bye-bye!
November 1st, 2007 at 8:40 amYeah, 64, the troops have a lot of respect for you cowards and losers who let them die in the sand or in Walter Reed because of your greed, neglect and incompetence. Good job, traitor. And Hitler is a very appropriate comparison for a loser like you. perfect, in fact. Wear it proudly, it fits you like a glove.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:42 amnice try, p, we all know you're the one hiding behind your mommy, or you wouldn't be such a coward namestealer. You're proving your impotence with every post; I love it! Go visit your hero larry craig; he's waiting in the men's room for you.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:43 amHow does someone namejack now that you must login? Is it that easy to figure out your password? Can't you change it daily to avoid this?
November 1st, 2007 at 8:44 amHow does someone namejack now that you must login? Is it that easy to figure out your password? Can’t you change it daily to avoid this?
Comment by Dave C — November 1, 2007 @ 8:44 am
Why bother? The mental acuity of the rightards makes them easy to spot; their cowardice and projection mark them clearly, and proves how unpatriotic and chickensh!t they are. Namestealing just shows they have already lost the argument, and need to resort to childish lies and taunts to feel human, even though they haven't reached that evolutionary plane yet. And it's generally the same sick little pervert P anyway, as transparent as Saran Wrap, and even more of a lightweight. Just a punching bag, showing up to be pummeled.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:48 am70 and 71, perfect projection. All Republicans in congress are proven or suspected perverts, but p needs to try to lie his way out of that. Too bad, P, you all prefer little boys, and we all know it. Pretty funny about taxpayer-funded pensions, considering how much y8our perverts claim to hate the government, and then vote themselves nice socialist health care. Hypocrisy is your only consistent value, P.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:51 amNow back ot the coming war with Iran.
Comment by Cepan — November 1, 2007 @ 8:44 am
let's waterboard you and the rest of the rightard perverts to start. You're such coards that y8ou won't last 2 seconds; you're also the main reason that we are losing in Iraq and will lose in Iran. Coward.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:52 amP, you're fully exposed as the useless tool you've always been, but keep spewing your 2nd-grade insults; it just makes you look weaker than any lefty.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:54 amI need to learn how to write a simple paragraph, STAT.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 1, 2007 @ 8:54 am
namestealer P, you need to learn to spell, but that would take you finding a brain. i know you've looked hard, but if you pull your head out of your ass, you'll have a better chance.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:55 am'....We don't know 'Whether The Bush Administration Practices Waterboarding used by the Government'......"
Who is 'WE'...?
November 1st, 2007 at 8:57 amwant waterboarding for non-terrorists. I sure makee lots of sense.
smafdy, the idiot.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 1, 2007 @ 8:55 am
No, I want waterboarding for you, and all the other rightard traitors. Just as a lesson for you, unless you drown. that would be a bonus.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:57 amWhy bother?
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 1, 2007 @ 8:48 am
Because if you don't then the comments section becomes meaningless, as it is on this thread. No point reading anymore. The whole reason for the ID/password is to avoid this kind of troll behavior. I still don't understand how a troll got your password to begin with. Nor do I get why you wouldn't change it.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:58 am83, 70% of the public is now "the leftist cause". You're all done, but keep onwith your cowardly ways. it will make it easy to find you when we need to.
November 1st, 2007 at 8:59 amWaterboarding is legal because those who've been told about it say it is. OK.
Mukasey is justified in not identifying the practice as torture because we don't know whether the U.S. does it or not. OK.
Is there something added to the water in D.C. which shorts the logic circuits?
November 1st, 2007 at 9:00 amIs there something added to the water in D.C. which shorts the logic circuits?
Comment by cavjam — November 1, 2007 @ 9:00 am
the Bush cabal has identified and hired all of the traitors in the US. they wouldnever hire a patriot, especially after their deal to allow terrorists to attack us successfully on 9/11.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:01 amNever mind. I think I figured it out.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:02 amThat's a brutal system. What's the point of a UserID/password protection if you can then just use any alias you choose? Stupid.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:03 amwell, I've decided to join the winning side. Republicans are too perverted for me, even though I dream of them tap, tap, tapping in my bathroom.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:05 amThat’s a brutal system. What’s the point of a UserID/password protection if you can then just use any alias you choose? Stupid.
Comment by Dave C — November 1, 2007 @ 9:03 am
well, P will be banned, and all of her horseshit erased, as soon as the administrators come aboard. It's just the usual rightard ineffectual nonsense, as meaningless as their oath of office. they have no honor, and no morals, so they're done next year; then we can go about cleaning up their mess and filling the prisons with real terrorists: fat white Republicans in suits. it will be fun.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:08 amThe Video clip has been edited. It no longer has the last exchange on it that there is a transcript of. Not that I'm surprised by this, but if we could find a complete clip it would be more useful.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:10 amplunger-good link. thanx
November 1st, 2007 at 9:11 amIn case you have not head we are WINNING in Iraq.
You are 6 months out of date, as usual for a lib.
How’s that majority thing working out for you now nutcase???
Comment by Cepan — November 1, 2007 @ 9:18 am
hahahaha. Incase you have no head, we are losing in Iraq, Afghanistan and in the war on terror, because your Deserter In Chief couldn't fight his way out of a rest home. You are pathetically deluded, but wishful thinking has always been the hallmark of weak, cowardly rightards like you. You about 5,000 years behind; are you walking upright yet?
November 1st, 2007 at 9:28 amCepan, how's that 24% working out for you? Get used to it, you're in the minority now, and will stay there forever.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:31 amKSM's confessions from waterboarding are not reliable and have for the most part been proven B.S.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:33 amI bet he doesn't know if Ken Mehlman is gay either.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:41 amMethinks experiments with waterboarding, or whatever they want to call it, should be conducted on Ed Gillespie, Michael Mukasey, Alberto Gonzalez, George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Dana Perino and all the other class clowns.
November 1st, 2007 at 9:44 amLive TV would be nice, but I'd settle for reruns.
Funny how these creeps bashed the hell out of President Clinton because he got caught lying about an affair, yet here they are, the “holier then thou club†splitting hairs with their “what the meaning of is, is†obfuscations.
#12 OxyCon
But OxyCon, Clinton was a heterosexual affair. The Repubs are talking about WMDs that don't exist and Toe Tapping in Restrooms.
November 1st, 2007 at 10:09 amcepan,
As to the lower bodies found in Baghdad, couldn't it be, as an government expert has recently pointed out, because the ethnic cleansing is almost completed? Also, did you know we have a new strategy, fewer use of troops and more bomb on villages?
November 1st, 2007 at 10:34 am#89..Cepan wrote..."Al Qaeda in Iraq is defeated...". Ref. Shiek Omar Al Jabouri statement.
But there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq to begin with, until we went and invaded Iraq in 2003.
Al-Qaeda by best estimate does not represent more than 5% of total militias fighting us in Iraq.
What about the Iraqis Sunnis militias,the ex-Bathists, the Shiite militias...?
Cepan:
Can our troops come home now..since there is no Al Qaeda or WMDS in Iraq..and saddam is no longer there..?
November 1st, 2007 at 10:44 amDo you think if Gillespie was waterboarded we could get him to admit it is torture?
If it is not torture, then simply doing it to members of the government who deny it is torture would not be wrong.... ...right?
November 1st, 2007 at 10:46 ameveryone in this administration is like sgt. shultz; they see nothing, nothing!
November 1st, 2007 at 10:51 amThis is nothing. In a very short time, the world will be informed of the far, far worse torture techniques being carried on by the Bush administration, with the cooperation of numerous state governments, law firms, agencies, and politicians, Democrat and Republican alike, to torture American citizens considered to be sub-human animals with no rights other than to suffer and die: i.e., 'psychopaths' and 'sexual perverts' or offenders. This is Naziism at its worst, and it is what the Bush administration truly fears accountability for. The lobotomy is back, and it is being performed involuntarily on American citizens considered sub-human by forensic psychologists.
November 1st, 2007 at 11:25 amRemember when a young girl asked Bush why America tortures and his very curt reply was, "we don't torture." Bush sticks to if I say it over and over it makes it the truth.
How about Mukasy getting a taste of waterboarding and then ask him if he feels it is torture.
November 1st, 2007 at 11:57 am#95 Our military has completed every CHANGING goal that Bush has set out. So we have "won". Because there are more terrorist than ever before is not our military's fault. We invaded a nation, they are fighting back. We need to defend our borders which is not Iraq and Iran, it is Mexico, Canada and all access to water.
The crap about fighting over there to not have to fight here, well how about the years between 1993 and 2001 with no terrorist attacks on American soil ?
It is very easy to discount torture unless you or someone you know has been through it, I suggest you talk with real people before declaring waterboarding is fun.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:03 pm#98 Again until you have endured any violent act do not suppose what is torture or not torture.
November 1st, 2007 at 12:08 pmBigfoot, do you support the use of waterboarding on U.S. troops held by other countries?
November 1st, 2007 at 1:06 pmGillespie also tried to insist that waterboarding is legal, claiming that “those who have been briefed on the program in the United States Senate, members of the Intelligence Committee and others who are familiar with the program, have said that it is legal.â€
Let me guess...8 members of the Senate who are sworn to secrecy.
Right?
November 1st, 2007 at 2:08 pmThere is a difference between what “feels†like torture, and actual torture. Just check with our middle eastern allies, and enemies, for visible differences.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 1, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Reading many of your comments, there's also a difference between what looks like intelligence, and actual intelligence.
November 1st, 2007 at 2:12 pmI'd also be interested to know if Bigfoot thinks it's OK for foreign governments to indefinitely hold our captured troops in prison, refuse to tell them why they are being detained, and then put them on trial and withhold evidence from them.
Our President thinks it would be a great day for the world.
November 1st, 2007 at 2:16 pm"It's a sad day in America when the nominee for attorney general cannot flatly declare that waterboarding is unconstitutional. Waterboarding has been prosecuted in U.S. courts since the late 1800s and was regarded by every U.S. administration before this one as torture." - Washington Post
November 1st, 2007 at 3:18 pmWaterboard Gillespie tll he tells the truth.
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:20 amEric Prince, the right-wing fundamentalist Blackwater buddy of Pres. Bush, promised to bring him the Head of Osama Bin Laden in a Box. So much for "Christian" values.
Pres. Bush & his supposedly "Christian" base are O.K. with Torture, which is weirdly ironic, since Jesus Christ, their "Savior" was tortured to death. You'd think they would be against torture, but they seem to revel in it, drool with anticipation & glee that a human being is being tortured.
Someone should ask them: Would "Simulated Crucifixion" be okay as a form of Interrogation? We could line up Crosses along all the roads leading to Baghdad. That would teach those durn A'rabs!
"Offensive acts come back upon the evildoer, like dust that is thrown against the wind." --- Buddha
November 2nd, 2007 at 3:54 am