DoJ Official Experienced Waterboarding, Told WH It Is Illegal, Was ‘Forced Out’
DoJ Official Experienced Waterboarding, Told WH It Is Illegal, Was ‘Forced Out’
Last night, ABC World News reported that in 2004 then-acting assistant attorney general Daniel Levin was so concerned about the administration’s use of waterboarding that he went to a military base near Washington and underwent the procedure himself.
Levin took over former Office of Legal Counsel Jack Goldsmith’s job when he resigned and immediately began reassessing the administration’s interrogation techniques. Levin released a new memo in Dec. 2004 that replaced the 2002 Bybee memo. Levin’s memo declared that “Torture is abhorrent” but also cautioned in a footnote that his memo was not declaring the administration’s previous opinions illegal. “The White House, with Alberto Gonzales as the White House counsel, insisted that this footnote be included in the memo.”
ABC reported that after Levin personally experienced waterboarding, he told the White House that it could be considered torture:
After the experience, Levin told White House officials that even though he knew he wouldn’t die, he found the experience terrifying and thought that it clearly simulated drowning.
Levin, who refused to comment for this story, concluded waterboarding could be illegal torture unless performed in a highly limited way and with close supervision. And, sources told ABC News, he believed the Bush Administration had failed to offer clear guidelines for its use.
Levin was working on a second memo that would have imposed tighter controls on the use of interrogation techniques such as waterboarding. While working on that memo, ABC reported “Levin was forced out of the Justice Department when Alberto Gonzales became Attorney General.” Watch it:
ABC’s Jan Crawford Greenburg reported, “Sources said Levin was seen as too independent by the Bush administration — not someone who could be counted on to endorse White House policies.”
The Swamp’s Mark Silva writes, “Perhaps Mukasey should take the water-board for a test-ride, too.”
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Fine* American Waterboarding by Feinstein-Schumer LLC. *we use only Vichy Sparkling Mineral Water…
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:39 pmThinkProgress for best liberal blog!
http://2007.weblogawards.org/polls/best-liberal-blog-1.php
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:42 pmHow ’bout we go waterboardin’ with Schumer and Feinstein? I am SO fed up with these lilly-livered Democrats.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pmperhaps Madame Bechtel thinks waterboarding is like a day @ the spa.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:44 pmWhat does it matter at this point?
We’ve got Senator Diane Swinestein who enjoys the taste of Bush’s nuts and nothing else matters to her.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:47 pm“Sources said Levin was seen as too independent by the Bush administration — not someone who could be counted on to endorse White House policies.â€
No kidding.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:47 pmI would pay good money to see the following waterboarded; Bush/Cheney, Gonzo, John Yoo, Rush Limpdick, Don Rumhead, Elliott Abrams, Mukasey, & Trannie Coulter.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:53 pmI suspect that no person who will not explicitly say waterboarding is torture has never experienced it. Until recently, it has been a war crime, so I doubt such a primative ‘interrogation technique’ could have changed so much as to justify it not being torture now compared to just a few years ago.
Anyone advocating its use should be subjected to it.
November 3rd, 2007 at 12:59 pmThe United States prosecuted Nazis as war criminals for performing exactly the same torture techniques now authorized by the United States under the rubric of “enhanced interrogation.” We have joined the league of ordinary nations.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 pmI would pay good money to see the following waterboarded; Bush/Cheney, Gonzo, John Yoo, Rush Limpdick, Don Rumhead, Elliott Abrams, Mukasey, & Trannie Coulter.
Comment by Uncle Ho — November 3, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
Now there’s an enterprising capitalist. The Republicans should love you. You’ve found a way to make money off tragedy. And after all, isn’t that what the American way of life is all about?
/sarcasm off
(I know you’re not really like that, Uncle Ho. ;) )
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:07 pmHe was too independent? The guy made his decision based not on political ideology but real-life experience. Why should the DOJ, which is supposed to be non-political [blind] in its decisions, force its officials, thru termination, to endorse such bad policy?
Policy is NOT the law of the land.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:12 pmTo the Senate: Confirm the judge. I suspect he will find that some of the waterboarding is ILLEGAL!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/ 2007/ 11/ despite-reservations-about.html#links
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:12 pmMukasey is by all accounts an honorable man. He must know that he is going to work for war criminals whose condition for his appointment is that he not prosecute them for their law-breaking. By acquiescing to this, Mukasey is acquiescing to the elevation of the president above the law. If he does that, he is no better than Gonzales, a man who never hesitated to give his political patrons whatever “legal” sanction they wanted for anything they wanted to do.
This issue just infuriates me. Our Congress has relegated itself to debating what constitutes torture. My God.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:13 pmIn a mere six years we’ve gone from defining what constitutes sex to what constitutes torture. Which occured during the Impeachment Process? What a strange time we’re living in!
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:14 pmWaterboarding isn’t “simulated” drowning, it’s drowning. The person is literally drowned to the point of near death, revived, and then drowned again, repeatedly, until the victim agrees to comply.
The reason the experience is described as “terrifying” despite “knowing you’re not going to die” is because you DO come close to dying, and only trust in the skills of your captors to revive you mitigates that fear in any way. (Just because I trust the doctors to try and save my life doesn’t mean I’m about to French kiss a light socket in the middle of an Emergency Ward.) If something goes wrong, you’re dead. And even if they don’t, who is going to argue that pushing a person to the brink of death “isn’t torture“?
Okay, “who” other than someone that stuck firecrackers up frogs’ butts, ripped the wings off flies and whose mother thought the lives of homeless Katrina survivors huddled on cots in the Astrodome were living “a step up” from before?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:14 pmABC’s Jan Crawford Greenburg reported, “Sources said Levin was seen as too independent by the Bush administration — not someone who could be counted on to endorse White House policies.â€
This is the kind of justification the Bush adminsuitration uses to rid it self of people with ethics. On its surface, the statement certainly sounds reasonable. After all, why would any president put people into high level positions who don’t support the official policies of the administration? The problem is that we can’t just accept this excuse without examining just what the policies are that the administration expects its people to support. If those policies are illegal, immoral, and without factual justification, then their excuse simply becomes, “We want to break the law, and we don’t want anyone in our administration who thinks we shouldn’t be able to.”
We cannot wait until Jan ‘09. Call your US Representative’s office today and demand support for Rep Kucinich’s privileged resolution H. Res 333, Articles of Impeachment against the Vice President. Act quickly, as a vote to table this bill (i.e. kill it) comes up on Tuesday (Election Day). Cheney first. Confirm his replacement. Bush next. All legal. All constitutional. All peaceful.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 pmI would pay good money to see the following waterboarded; Bush/Cheney, Gonzo, John Yoo, Rush Limpdick, Don Rumhead, Elliott Abrams, Mukasey, & Trannie Coulter.
Comment by Uncle Ho — November 3, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
I can relate to your anger and frustration. Feel plenty myself. But if it’s wrong, it’s wrong.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:16 pmThe only antidote to mental suffering is physical pain.
Karl Marx
The only alternative to pain is mental suffering and more pain.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:17 pmNeo-Kooks
In a mere six years we’ve gone from defining what constitutes sex to what constitutes torture. Which occured during the Impeachment Process? What a strange time we’re living in!
Comment by Bob — November 3, 2007 @ 1:14 pm
Best post I’ve read on the subject! Well done.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:18 pmAnd I certainly pay a ticket to see that: waterboard test ride. Dick and Rummy should lead the way. After all, they have Gitmo and Abu Ghraib experience on their resumes.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:22 pmComment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007
If you were waterboarded you would admit to flying an airplane into the WTC to make it stop. Admit it.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:23 pmActually, it doesn’t sound reasonable. The DoJ SHOULD BE independent.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:24 pmTo the Senate: Confirm the judge. I suspect he will find that some of the waterboarding is ILLEGAL!
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/ 2007/ 11/ despite-reservations-about.html#links
Comment by KYJurisDoctor — November 3, 2007 @ 1:12 pm
He may find that SOME of the waterboarding is illegal? Isn’t that similar to being “a little bit pregnant?” It either is, or it isn’t torture, and thus illegal, Bro.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:25 pmIts useful to get someone to sign a confession, useless in getting him to make one.
The reason bushco is high on torture is a projection of their power. This is about fear and being feared. There has never been a more malignant entity in the White House than at this moment.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmComment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007
And how, exactly, is torturing you being a neo-con compassionate typical righty cum communist?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We progresives are forward thinking, sexually obsessed, possess a get-laid-or-die mentality, -TL
Naw, that was Haggard, Vitter, Craig, Cunningham, Foley, Flory, Gannon etc etc
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmWe are thugs.
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
If I was a thug I’d be waterboarding you now wouldn’t I?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pmThe program would allow terror suspects conjugal visits with Britney Spears -TL
Being as shes a typical secually repressed righty, she would enjoy it, thoroughly.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:30 pm(Say, are there enough muslims being admitted in the U.S. I want the quotas constantly expanded and met.)
Well, why is Bush admitting possible terrorists? BTW read the patriot act as terrorist has a very broad meaning.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:33 pmNo wonder we have no power. We’re a majority by a number, but our stupidity makes us appear to be a permanent minority.
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
First of all, I don’t believe for a minute you are either “on the left” or a “progressive.” What you are calling for is Republican lite from Democrats…and frankly, it is what we are seeing too frequently. Protecting and honoring our Constitution and maintaining the values that this country is at least SUPPOSED to stand for would do more to protect us on this planet than any march to permanent war. It would also make us a country worth continuing to defend. We are looking more and more like those countries which our troops, in previous wars, fought AGAINST!
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:34 pmWe, the crazy leftists, should put out yet another social program. The program would allow terror suspects conjugal visits with Britney Spears. This would allow for more diversity.
We progresives are forward thinking, sexually obsessed, possess a get-laid-or-die mentality, and we call people names and point out stupid things. We have a group-thing, gang-speak way of life.
We are thugs.
Comment by Typical Leftist
Aw, poor pouchey. Something obviously has you emotionally upset today. That failed war of choice got you down?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:35 pmWe are stupid enough to lump terror suspects with U.S. troops -TL
I think typical righties called that a Freedom Operation….
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:37 pmBush/Cheney, Gonzo, John Yoo, Rush Limpdick, Don Rumhead, Elliott Abrams, Mukasey, & Trannie Coulter.
Comment by Uncle Ho — November 3, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
This list is WAAAAAY too short, Uncle Ho!
What about Condi, Trannie T/rudi, Heil Hannity, Glenda Beck, Michael “The Savage Weiner”, Doughy Pantload, Hug “Tits” Hewitt, Fred Kagan, Bill Kristol, Norman Podhoritz, Roger Ailes, Rupert, Michelle Malkin, Brit Hume, Tony Snow… the list goes on and on.
Apart from waterboarding, I’ve always wondered how those bizarre, disgusting Abu Ghraib sex torture photos were preventing another terrorist attack. I’ve never heard ONE, single, solitary explanation of why that was necessary. Any trolls care to explain it?
Another question… the folks we rounded up and stuck in Abu Ghraib were mostly Iraqis, no? The saner percentage of the population understands Iraq had NOTHING to do w/ 9/11, so how were we getting information from these individuals that would prevent another 9/11 from happening, by torturing them, no less, when not a single one of them had anything to do w/ 9/11 in the first place?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:38 pmA leftist myself, I’d recommend cherry picking everything to get a big kick out of the media that espouses our views!
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
Hopefully, you’re reachable, “Lefty”. You’re not making any sense here. This is a totally irrational comment. Look at Faux Snooze recently? Try again. You’ll get the hang of it, sooner or later.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:40 pmlet Mexico continue to take dumps on it, and call it all diversity and go to sleep. -TL
Must be why the Republicans voted for NAFTA and CAFTA, eh? And tell me about this Bush amnesty program again?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:41 pmA two-bedroom home will cost $1 MIL+ when our initiatiatives are fully cleared.
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Sniff, sniff… I almost feel sorry fer ya li’l feller. As confused and dishonest your is, no wonder yer so miserable. All’s ya need is Faux Snooze, 24/7, and you’ll be fine!
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:42 pmLook, our stupidity rests with who’s being waterboarded. We are stupid enough to lump terror suspects with U.S. troops (â€What if…U.S. troops were being waterboarded?â€). The difference we fail to admit is, U.S. troops are not terror suspects. There’s nothing for them to confess.
Apparently, someone on this board is too stupid to realize that it isn’t how WE view the troops that matters. It’s how our troops could be treated by other nations that capture them. It’s about reciprocity. It’s about the fact that if we erode the Geneva Convention, others may do it too. Apparently, that’s a notion that’s too taxing for someone’s mind on this board.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:44 pmI do oppose waterboarding. But if U.S. troops or civilians are the subjects and not suspected terrorists, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t say a word. We probably would go about our day in diversity. (Say, are there enough muslims being admitted in the U.S. I want the quotas constantly expanded and met.)
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:29 pm
Take your meds Typical Psychotic, you’re imagining things not even close to the facts.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:46 pm#43: “…The difference we fail to admit is, U.S. troops are not terror suspects. There’s nothing for them to confess.” - - Wow. Born without the logic gene, eh?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:47 pmComment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Bwah, dont you understand righty free market capitalism? Hide behind the cloak of Jesus, who wasnt a capitalist BTW, and then exploit and plunder cheap labor! The more mexicans the more profit!! American jobs to commie china! American jobs to India! To Mexico! To Pakistan! To Mariannas and that perfect petri dish of exploitation!
Try to sell your righty Orwellian diatribe somewhere else lefty, I aint buying it. oh and BTW, google my name, and you will find out I am a Chrsitian, a real one, not some Marxist atheist righty pseduo christian.
Jesus was a lefty, dint a know? And BTW if it wasn’t for pot seed gruel, hippy, the christians may not have survived.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:47 pmBtw, Starve…, I know it wasn’t your post.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmAnd tell me about this Bush amnesty program again?
Comment by Xisithrus — November 3, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
Also, it was the righties’ beloved Ronnie Reagan who opened the door to massive illegal immigration back in the early 80’s.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/ editorial/ feature.html?id=110008406
In one of his radio addresses, in November 1977, he wondered about what he called “the illegal alien fuss. Are great numbers of our unemployed really victims of the illegal alien invasion, or are those illegal tourists actually doing work our own people won’t do? One thing is certain in this hungry world: No regulation or law should be allowed if it results in crops rotting in the fields for lack of harvesters.” As a Californian, Reagan understood the role of immigrant labor in agriculture.
Those damned libs, cuasing all that trouble. say, wasn’t it also Ronnie Raygun who ran up the largest deficit in US history, until the Bush family came along, and also cut and ran in Lebanon from the “terraists”???
Don’t expect this troll to be able to acknowledge a ‘fact’. That might cause its pointy head to explode.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:48 pmA two-bedroom home will cost $1 MIL+ when our initiatiatives are fully cleared. Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007
Clearly you failed economics. The dollar has devalued some 30% in the last five years and the sub-prime usury bubble burst bringing home prices down and creating un-employment. See, this is why Jesus turned over the table of the money changers, its called usury, creating money from credit-debt.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:50 pmThis would be salve on the wounded psyches of the Progressive.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Back under the doublewide, Hillybilly. This comment is too silly to argue over.
Care to explain how the Abu Ghraib sex torture photos are keeping the country safer?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:50 pmWaterboarding! The Xtreme entertainment ride. The “E ticket” of torture! But you have to be ‘thiiisss tall”. Perhaps not so much.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:51 pmAre you guys off your coffee this morinig?! TL is so obviously an inflammatory troll. Talking with it at all is validating it.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:51 pmComment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Little early to be drinking the moonshine aint it billy?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:52 pmSorry guys, after I posted, the next 20 posts where you call the BS popped up. lol
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:53 pm** AMERICA **
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:54 pm1776 - 2007
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
Aww, come on Billy, we know you Neil Horsley types prefer sex with animals over those muslim women. Say, milked any horses lately?
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:57 pmWe should require classified information to be unfolded into the hands of terrorists and endanger U.S. lives. That’s the promise of “the most open government in history†being kept.
An example of this is the Sabotaging of National Security by exposing a COVERT CIA SPY specializing in WMD and her CIA company, Brewster Jennings (CIA, Fitz and Plame ALL said “covert”, so don’t deny it..)
At Libby’s trial, NINE members of the Bush TREASON administration were shown to have discussed Plame’s covert status, including Libby,
Rove and Armitage.
I fail to see how this makes them “leftists”.
Actually, they are FASCIST/Nazi TRAITORS to the USA.
That includes AWOL coward Bush the MURDERER coxucker PUNK and
ALL his PNAC war criminal TRAITORS…”Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:59 pmWell lets see here now…….If I really did not want to be seen all over the world in an foreign military porn flick I would probably put down my AK-47 and mmmmm…….say, go watch a camel race or something.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
So what you’re saying is all our soldiers overseas better put down their weapons and come home or whatever happens to them, from waterboarding to sexual exploitation, is their own fault? Way to support the troops hillbilly!
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:59 pmAs a Democrat I believe all sworn enemy’s of the US should be required to sign disclaimers and have them on file at the DOJ that would allow waterboarding should they be captured on the battle field of their choice. This would be salve on the wounded psyches of the Progressive.
Comment by Billy Hill
A progressive, Democratic Administration didn’t need waterboarding but nonetheless led the U.S. to victory in one of the most difficult times in our nation’s history. I’m talking about the guy who brought us the New Deal programs and agencies, the Works Progress Administration, the Civilian Conservation Corps, the Public Works Administration, the Farm Security Administration, and the National Recovery Administration.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:00 pmRoosevelt was a great progressive President and didn’t need to torture in order to defeat far greater enemies than we now face, whereas Bush has already proven himself to be the ass-slime of American history.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 3, 2007 @ 1:48 pm
The whole illegal immigration thing is a red herriing…one more “enemy” to distract us. Middle class jobs are not threatened by illegal migrants from Mexico and other countries to the south of us. Outsourcing of middle-class jobs and factories by corporations to countries where labor costs are minimal and environmental protections weak to nil, plus tax advantages, are the REAL issue here. The loss of our manufacturing base here is the REAL issue. But it’s just so much easier to blame the victims of NAFTA rather than seeing the cause.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:00 pmsay, go watch a camel race or something.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
You can’t possibly believe this is a rational explanation…
You do realize photos like that will be circulating the planet for DECADES after the Bush Admin is gone… retired and/or incarcerated (hopefully). Quite a legacy for W, huh?
This is why Americans used to be seen as different and better than the rest of the world.
http://www.generousorthodoxy.org/ TipsFromTimes/ 2005/ 10/ george-washington-and-treatment-of.html
“Washington ordered that Hessian captives would be treated as human beings with the same rights of humanity for which Americans were striving. The Hessians … were amazed to be treated with decency and even kindness. At first they could not understand it.” The same policy was extended to British prisoners.”
If you believe what you say, Hillybilly, I’d expect you to not only be picking up yer AK, but making sure you slip into some pantyhose before heading out for battle. Don’t want to be underdressed when your big moment comes, huh?
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:01 pmWayne; I like to think of it as a dose of their own medicine. I prefer they be tried, convicted, and executed in the same court in Nuremberg as the war criminals they most assuredly are(I love the irony).
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:04 pmALL his PNAC war criminal TRAITORS…â€Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
Comment by Arn Gunnutes — November 3, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
And Valerie Plame was working on keeping nukes out of Iran. Can’t have a successful intelligence program, what will we use for an excuse to attack?
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:04 pmThe difference we fail to admit is, U.S. troops are not terror suspects. There’s nothing for them to confess.
Such ignorance. Since you obviously are incapable of seeing what’s wrong with your comment, I will spell it out for you. Just because a US soldier is not a teorrist does not mean that no one will ever subject them to waterboarding or other forms of torture to gain information. If the insurgents got wind of an impending operation (probably through the same spies that let suicide bombers into the Green Zone), what makes you think they wouldn’t torture a captured US soldier to get more specifics about that operation? If you think there is no reason why one of our soldiers would ever be subjected to torture (of any kind), then you don’t belong in this conversation.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:05 pmComment by Uncle Ho — November 3, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
I understand your point of view. But I feel that killing people who are not actively working to harm you is wrong. Actual self-defense (or the defense of loved onoes) is one thing, but once someone is arrested, imprisoned, and cut off from society, then they are no longer a danger to that society, and no further justification exists for taking their lives.
Besides, wouldn’t it be more poetic to have them arrested, brought to The Hague, and then left to live out their natural lives in their cells without ever facing a court to hear charges being brought against them? I do.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:08 pmThe loss of our manufacturing base here is the REAL issue. But it’s just so much easier to blame the victims of NAFTA rather than seeing the cause.
Comment by impeachcheneythenbush — November 3, 2007 @ 2:00 pm
Not unlike the endless ‘voter fraud’ hullabaloo from the GOOPers too, huh?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ articles/ A7422-2004Oct28.html
“Courts in the past found that Republicans used tactics that were aimed at intimidating minority voters and suppressing their votes. The consent decrees in New Jersey stemmed from several incidents in the 1980s.
In 1981, the Republican National Committee sent letters to predominantly black neighborhoods in New Jersey, and when 45,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the committee compiled a challenge list to remove those voters from the rolls. The RNC sent off-duty law enforcement officials to the polls and hung posters in heavily black neighborhoods warning that violating election laws is a crime.
In 1986, the RNC tried to have 31,000 voters, most of them black, removed from the rolls in Louisiana when a party mailer was returned. The consent decrees that resulted prohibited the party from engaging in anti-fraud initiatives that target minorities or conduct mail campaigns to “compile voter challenge lists.”
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:10 pmI understand that we are dealing with 24%ers, yet one would think that some of them would be able to grasp the simple fact that we “leftists” are not protecting “terrorists”. It’s about our troops, now, and in the future.
The only protection we can extend to prisoners, held by a foreign power, is a commitment to treating those we hold prisoner in a humane manner. Once WE lose the “moral high ground” THEY are more likely to torture US. GET it?
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 pmNo, not saying that at all……. but those who find themselves in these situations had a choice to make….. Jihadi crap or normal human activities.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
And since TRAITOR Bush sux the dix of the Saudi OIL boys who FINANCE Al Queda, and was financed by the Bin Ladens in his failed oil businesses,
I’d say HE chose the “jihadi crap”, which makes his a TREASONOUS coxucker PUNK.
Oh, and don’t forget “Bandar Bush”, their family friend…
And Osama is STILL FREE 6 YEARS LATER.
And Bush’s FRIEND Musharraf just declared MARTIAL LAW today…
http://edition.cnn.com/ 2007/ WORLD/ asiapcf/ 11/ 03/ pakistan.emergency/ index.html
Sincerely,
NRA Gun Nutes
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 pmWe can dismantle what this country is about through “scholarly†ways, turn it over to Islam, let Mexico continue to take dumps on it, and call it all diversity and go to sleep.
And, our environmental hopes will end up worthless. We want lots of third-world immigration, and that means eventual overpopulation. We will be engaged in a tug of war for the necessities, not looking to save some trees in hopes of cleaner air. A two-bedroom home will cost $1 MIL+ when our initiatiatives are fully cleared.
Comment by Typical Leftist — November 3, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Here is a perfect example of a Chickenhawk NeoCon BushCo, a bigoted and fearful follower, buying into all the rhetoric and not having an orignal thought about what is right, what is just or even what is true.
Living in the BushCo Fog of FUD.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:17 pmBTW, direct engagement with the hillbilly is futile. It’s a particularly obtuse troll.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:17 pmBTW, direct engagement with the hillbilly is futile. It’s a particularly obtuse troll.
Comment by pete — November 3, 2007 @ 2:17 pm
Not unlike the typical rightie.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:20 pmNo, not saying that at all……. but those who find themselves in these situations had a choice to make….. Jihadi crap or normal human activities.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
What exactly constitutes Jihadi crap? And by looking at the pictures you know they were 1. terrorists, 2. had secrets to keep and 3. had been uncooperative. Your psychic powers are astonishing.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:26 pmWow Levin . . .
. . . a Republican worthy of respect. Your actions demonstrate a standard of honor that should set the bar for American policy . . . test drive interrogation practices personally before sanctioning them.
You deserve a Congressional Medal of Honor . . .
in a time that secrecy reigns supreme, you hit the ground and told your truth . . . The day Bush burns, perhaps we can waterboard him to put out the flames.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:28 pmWhat I find amazing is they can see “the man behind the curtain”. Heck, the curtain isn’t even there anymore. Yet they stubbornly believe in “The Great and Powerful Oz”.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:31 pmCompassionate conservatism . . . snuff out the flames.
With all of the recent revelations regarding republican flamers, hell fire and damn nation, there should be not shortage of toe-tapping, evangelical sinners upon whom to test drive . . . just sayin’…
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:32 pmWisdom breeds consistency. Stupidity breeds stubborness.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:38 pmGood afternoon Bart. These neo-trolls sure do make it easy don’t they?
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 pmNo, not saying that at all……. but those who find themselves in these situations had a choice to make….. Jihadi crap or normal human activities.
Comment by Billy Hill — November 3, 2007 @ 2:07 pm
This prime example of the dichotomy of your thought processes shows why conservatives like you (and the Bush administration you support) are unfit to govern. I know you don’t like nuance and “shades of gray”, but the fact is that interconnectivity of the world’s population is far more complex than “Either you’re with us or you’re with the terrorists.” The fact that you think of the people being occupied as having two, and only two, choices shows how limited your mind is. The fact that your Dear Leader Bush can only think of people and things as falling into two categories, those that support him and those that don’t, just shows that he should never have been put into that office in the first place. Haven’t you noticed how his entire presidency contradicts the statements he made on the campain trail in 2000? (This contradiction, BTW, was quite noticeable even before 9/11, so don’t pull that “9/11 changed everything” bullsh!t. It didn’t change the constitution.) Are you so willing to follow authority blindly that you’ll accept anything they say as fact? You shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:45 pmThat’s Right! it’s the Talking Jesus and Freinds Action Set (exclusiely at Walmart!).
Think of the Joy!
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/ 2007/ 11/ 03/ talking-jesus-doll-made-in-china/ #more-171
(was just going to get you the Moses one! It’s the closest thing I could find to Maude…)
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:47 pmHi plunger. That’s what we’re looking for. Concise, to the point, and 100% accurate.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:53 pmFight the good fight. I’m out.
.
It’s not torture when America does it.
Close, careful supervision makes it legal.
Why, pulling out fingernails could be safe and easy with the (R)ight supervision. Cigarette anyone?
.
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:56 pmI’d love to see the Mukaskey waterboarding on U-Tube. As he is uncuffed, sputtering and de-fillibrating he can tell us how repugnantly legal that torture is.
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:09 pmAre you so willing to follow authority blindly that you’ll accept anything they say as fact? You shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider — November 3, 2007 @ 2:45 pm
billy wasn’t allowed to vote. nobody was allowed to vote in ‘00. tyranny doesn’t count votes, it installs tyrants. this is what happened, and continues to happen. bush was never elected, he is an installed tyrant, thus doesn’t need to know how to govern, just how to wield power. and only the republican party members could have allowd this to happen, including the mindless trailer-trash like billy hill and TCDon. only people so greedy and stupid that thye would believe a single word out of a Bush or Cheney could conspire in their laziness to allow a petty creep and sociopath like cheney to take this country from its rightful owners. billy hil will never utter a single rational thought on this site, he is incapable of it. ignoring him is all we can do, until somebody finds out where he is and teaches him the error of his ways. unfortunately for him, that someone is likely to be a member of his own party. as the germans found out, tyrants aren’t on any side, they’re just tyrants: evil duplicitous, sociopathic liars, without souls or morals. that’s who’s in charge now, so billy, o bigfoot, P and all the rest of the dull tools are no safer than an avowed “lefty”.
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:14 pmOn its surface, the statement certainly sounds reasonable.
youve been stuck in the BUSHâ„¢ years too long, it DOES NOT sound reasonable.
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:38 pmABC’s Jan Crawford Greenburg reported, “Sources said Levin was seen as too independent by the Bush administration — not someone who could be counted on to endorse White House policies.â€
**********************]
Correct me if I’m wrong — but as I’ve always understood it, it is not the role of the Attorney General or that office as a whole to be a “yes man” and automatically endorse/justify/rationalize White House policy! That may have been what Ashcroft and Gonzales did under the Bush administration, and I think — but that doesn’t mean that this is what they were supposed to be doing. At least in theory, the role of the Attorney General’s office is to serve as the top legal representative and law enforcement official for the government. In effect, especially since the President may or may not have any legal training, one of the roles of the Attorney General’s office is to act as a legal advisor to the executive branch — and no proper, ethical legal advisor worth his salt endorses anything and everything that his client wants regardless of whether or not it adheres to the law. My understanding is that the role of the Attorney General’s office includes sometimes saying to the executive branch “I’m afraid that you can’t do that.” If anything, Levin’s ouster suggests that he is a man of ethics and integrity who was fulfilling his role properly. No wonder he didn’t last long in the Bush administration — there’s no place for ethics and integrity there!
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 pmthe AG is supposed to be looking out for the American people, NOT the president.
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:57 pmhello all:
another new “nightly nolo”,
this time, setting about one
minute, ten seconds of the audio
from yesterday afternoon’s press con-
ference, in burlington, vermont,
to relevant archival video and
stills — as senator patrick
leahy makes plain why he cannot
support michael mukasey’s nom-
ination to be the next united
states attorney general — dis-
tilled to a few words:
t o r t u r e
is unlawful.
that is all. . .
November 3rd, 2007 at 4:07 pmoh my!!! i almost forgot!
TODAY IS ZOOEY’S BIRTHDAY!!!
post wishes and regards at
http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ZOOEY!!!
November 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm:-)
HAPPY, HAPPY BIRTHDAY ZOOEY!!! (:-D)
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:39 pmDo any of you left nut wackos know that EVERY soldier has to experience this in training? No, I didn’t think so.
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:42 pmNo Pete,
Wisdom does not breed stupidity or constency. Wisdom breeds a lookback. Were we wise tojump onto the 9-11 bandwagon? Wisdom breeds thought.
We were wrong.
Think about it. Those who knowingly led us astray…are these folks we want to follow?
We are not sheep.
November 3rd, 2007 at 8:52 pmTest driving the waterboard is not an original idea. Perhaps a little attribution is in order. I just hate to see the MSM taking creative creds from what they’ve read on blogs . . . that abhorrent creature that threatens your livelihood by its truthiness.
If it’s where you get your story ideas and headlines . . . you are a schmuck . . . not a journalist.
But we knew that . . .
Tried and failed to post this on The Swamp. Apparently, posters must have a secret number, which The Swamp doesn’t provide. “yeah, we’re open to all posters, just post your seceret number, which, if we don’t like your content, we won’t provide.”
You go Swamp!
November 3rd, 2007 at 11:29 pmWhen the difference is a peaceful intersection and a dirty bomb killing hundreds, I want all tecniques used.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com
November 4th, 2007 at 4:28 amWhen the difference is a peaceful intersection and a dirty bomb killing hundreds, I want all tecniques used.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com
Comment by crotchety — November 4, 2007 @ 4:28 am
what’s that supposed to mean? Speak English, or go back to Saudi Arabia!
November 4th, 2007 at 11:16 amWhen the problem is the car bomb at the intersection, it’s a little late for “all tecniques used.” You can’t waterboard a suicide bomber.
We have a pretty good clue that the problem originates in the Madrassas. You want to waterboard kids? There’s a way to win the hearts of the occupied. Maybe you would consider “all tecniques” and embrace sending Blackwater into the schools to mow down the kids. It’d sure save a lot of water. . . you know, sort of a pre-emptive water saver . . . preserving all those intersections.
November 4th, 2007 at 11:52 amBret Farve . . You GO! 37 and amazing!
November 4th, 2007 at 8:09 pmSorry to crash this party, but you have got to be kidding me.
Read the article again. Levin doesn’t say it is “torture”, he says:
If you want, see here for more.
Incidentally, waterboarding has only been used a whopping total of THREE TIMES under the Bush administration, the last time being in 2003…
November 6th, 2007 at 11:25 am