Feingold responds to Ashcroft on telecomm immunity.
Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) writes a letter to editor in today’s New York Times, responding to John Ashcroft’s op-ed pushing for telecomm immunity:
Former Attorney General John Ashcroft leaves out a crucial point when he argues that telecommunications companies that allegedly cooperated with the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program should be shielded from lawsuits.
Telecom companies that cooperate with a government wiretap request are already immune from lawsuits, as long as they get a court order or a certification from the attorney general that the wiretap follows all applicable statutes. […]
If we want companies and the government to follow the law in the future, retroactive immunity sets a terrible precedent.
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Republicans are the party of Law and Order!
Sheesh.
November 7th, 2007 at 9:55 amFeingold Rules
Feinstein Sucks
jack jett
November 7th, 2007 at 9:59 amchaotic modulation
http://www.yabbadabbahubbado.com
Marcus Aurelius
Republicans are the party of Law and Order!
Yah we are, how do you think we got Fred?
November 7th, 2007 at 10:00 amMy children have a higher unnderstanding of right and wrong than our gov’t and corporations who run it. The bottom line is they knew it was wrong and did it anyway for gov’t favortism. Go Feingold!
November 7th, 2007 at 10:06 amI sure do wish he was running for President.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:07 amI wish Russ Feingold would consider a run for President or Veep! He appears to be one of the few patriots in Congress willing to put his neck out for lawful adherence to the laws of this country.
It’s true - if we permit the Rethugs to change the conversation as they so handily do (people inherently negative or evil do this automatically, as we all know), we will find ourselves in a circle jerk.
We have FISA rules and laws in place - created precisely to curtail the type of abuse which Bush has been enabling. Just like the illegal immigrantion issue, no one objects to immigrants who come here legally and in accordance with our laws. The same applies to the telecoms - they could have obtained a FISA warrant to do precisely what they have done……OR COULD THEY??
Herein lies the crux of the problem - these telecoms and GWB DID NOT pursue the activity “legally” and according to the FISA rules and Emperor George promised these guys immunity for breaking the law.
What they will discover is that even a power-hungry executive must still play by the rules and it’s not within his perview to grant anyone immunity when knowingly breaking the law.
So, Feingold’s absolutely accurate: The issue is NOT whether these guys should be granted immunity for breaking laws - it should be “why” they did not follow the letter of the law in the first place.
Do not allow the Repukes and trolls to hijack our conversation. Whether it is concerning waterboarding (which should not even be a discussable issue according to the law and geneva conventions) or illegal immigration or illegal spying - there are “existing laws on the books” which need to used as legal precedents.
Let’s ask Congress to simply DO THEIR JOB AND UPHOLD OUR EXISTING LAWS. If they did so and held “Mr. Illegal Bush” to the laws of this country, there would be no further discussion taking up precious time with sheer nonsense, psychobabble, and blather.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:09 am#6 Great minds think alike!
November 7th, 2007 at 10:09 amLook at me everyone! ME!
Comment by Rovian Stormtrooper Commander — November 7, 2007 @ 10:18 am
shat’s the problem, RSC, nobody’s paying any attention to the treasonous 24%? Get used to it, now the entire world, including, finally, the American mainstream, knows that the GOP is the home of perverts, liars and traitors.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:23 amRetroactive immunity? WTH is that? Oh, I know now…its just another term for Legislator Protection of their own continued wealth management program.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:24 am#9 and #4
Oh, the irony.
There should be no retroactive immunity to the telecoms without some explicit benefit to this country in terms of shedding light on the exact procedures and process by which surveillance happened. Otherwise, in practical terms we would be giving the Bush administration retroactive immunity as well. And I reiterate a saying I made up a couple of years ago: “If we give the presidency all the power it says it needs to fight a war, what is there to stop a president from starting a war to get all the power he wants?”. There must be oversight in a democratic republic or we may as well “elect” a dictator and call a halt to this great “experiment in self-governance”.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:31 amFeingold rocks.
Feinstien, not so much.
Diane is a very wealthy woman. When push comes to shove, she will support corporate everytime.
In fact, she’s much like Lieberman in panties.
Come to think of it, Joe probably wears panties, as well.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:35 amRovian Stormtrooper Commander = Pathetic, angry, little looser with an intractable superiority complex.
Never support an ideology that doesn’t benefit you.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:36 amIt is always amazing to see the hypocrisy inherent in the Republican/conservative view of the world. Common people must obey the law implicitly, without question and without thought. However, certain elites are exempt from this rule.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:45 am#13 Comment by Zimzone — November 7, 2007 @ 10:35 am
November 7th, 2007 at 10:48 amI’ve sent several letters to Feinstein over the years. She responds, but then actually doesn’t.
Pelosi is an appeaser. And Reid is Harvey Milktoast.
I want retroactive immunity for my last traffic violation. I knew the law, but then I wasn’t actually thinking about it at the time.
November 7th, 2007 at 10:51 amThis is a non-issue, it’s not as if terrorists use phones anyway.
Comment by Rovian Stormtrooper Commander — November 7, 2007 @ 10:04 am
So then you support requiring a court order to wiretap a suspect, right?
November 7th, 2007 at 10:57 amRetroactive anything for Bush is a bad thing. Nail him to the wall for spying on us.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:00 amThere must be oversight in a democratic republic or we may as well “elect†a dictator and call a halt to this great “experiment in self-governanceâ€.
Comment by PatrioticLiberalChristian — November 7, 2007 @ 10:31 am
We already did that in 2000, and probably long before. As long as campaign officials can serve on state and county election boards and have the power to disenfranchise voters through caging lists, hanging chads, and unverifiable black box voting, we don’t have a democracy.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:01 amJohn Asscrack is simply protecting himself from prosecution. Here’s a guy who thinks Calico Cats are Evil, covers statues breasts with draperies, is a horrible singer, and thinks Dancing is the work of the Devil, but he think illegally spying on people is OK.
Bizarro World!!
November 7th, 2007 at 11:21 amAs long as campaign officials can serve on state and county election boards… we don’t have a democracy.
Comment by toasterhead — November 7, 2007 @ 11:01 am
Yes, like dear Ken Blackwell here in Ohio. I guess I’m just going for the “official declaration” that our democracy is gone. But then, I’m still hopeful that 2008 will be a new “surge in democracy”. If I’m wrong, well, I’d rather have my delusion than the neocon’s.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:32 amDid I hear somewhere that Ashcroft is now a lobbyist for telecom companies? Boy I guess he is trying to earn his money.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:34 amI think any files of Ashcroft singing should be wiretapped & deleted.
Have you heard him sing…you’ll understand.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:51 amlOOK, the constitution and bill of rights are only pieces of paper. These protections mean nothing. It is the right and the duty of those in power to exercise every degree of control that they can in the face of cowardly sheep who live in fear of any potential threat, no matter how trivial or imaginary.
The United States is marching towards an authoritarian, oligarchy. They will be ruled by corporate interests and a few elite, wealthy families. This is as it should be. The American people have proven themselves to be unworthy of freedom. Just look at the evidence that the vast majority of our citizens are inferior:
1. The vast majority of US citizens do not believe in evolution. Thus they have proven themselves intellectually inferior and incapable of fact based decision making.
2. The majority of US citizens elected Bush to a second term despite the fact that he lied them into war and acted in an incompetent manner in the conduct of our foreign, military and domestic policy. Once again, it shows that US citizens are incapable of determining what is in their own best interest.
3. The majority of people in the US pissed their pants after 9/11. Now, 9/11 ranks down their with chasing Mexican bandits for the real threat that it posed to the US. However, the majority of US citizens seemed to believe that Bin Laden posed a greater threat to us than all of our enemies from WWI, WWII, the Cold War, Korean War and Vietnam combined. OBVIOUSLY A COUNTRY OF SNIVELING COWARDS.
4. A majority of US citizens believe that they would rather give up a little freedom for some degree of security. The American people have proven that they deserve neither freedom or security.
5. THE DEMOCRAT PARTY proved that our political process is unable to fight a tin horned, incompetent dictator wannabe such as Bush even though the DEMOCRAT party was given a clear electoral mandate to do so.
WE WILL SEE THE US REDUCED TO AN OLIGARCHY WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF ITS CITIZENS LIVING IN ABJECT PARTY. WE WILL SEE THE SHANTY TOWNS OF A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. WE WILL SEE ENCLAVE OF THE RICH WITH THEIR MERCENARY ARMED GUARDS TO PROTECT THEIR WALLED HOMES FROM THE RIFT RAFT THAT WILL COMPRISE THE MAJORITY OF OUR PEOPLE. WE WILL SEE OUR CIVIL RIGHTS SHREDDED AND THE IMPOSITION OF A STRICT POLICE STATE/THEOCRACY TO OPPRESS THE MAJORITY. WE WILL SEE THE RISE OF MANY OTHER COUNTRIES INTO A POSITION SUPERIOR TO OURS. WE WILL SEE THE CHINESE AND OTHERS DICTATE OUR FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICY BECAUSE WE WILL BE DEPENDENT UPON THEM FOR FINANCIAL AID AFTER OUR COUNTRY COLLAPSES.
WE WILL DESERVE THE FATE BECAUSE WE FAILED TO ACT WHEN IT WAS CLEAR TO ALL THAT A DRAMATIC CHANGE WAS NEEDED.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:14 pm2. The majority of US citizens elected Bush to a second term despite the fact that he lied them into war and acted in an incompetent manner in the conduct of our foreign, military and domestic policy. Once again, it shows that US citizens are incapable of determining what is in their own best interest.
Comment by JMOHR — November 7, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
Actually, the majority of U.S. citizens elected John Kerry in 2004. However, about 1.6 million of their votes were thrown out due to errors such as voting in the wrong precinct, insufficiently punching chads on defective machines, or being black.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:29 pmComment by JMOHR — November 7, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
While I may disagree with some minor points you’ve cited, JMOHR, it saddens me to admit that I’m in complete agreement with your conclusion.
Eventually, every nation gets the kind of government they deserve. We deserve to be downtrodden plebes in the Orwellian New World Order of the neocons. We deserve it because we stood by and watched.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal rigged the 2000 election and installed themselves in power.
We stood by and watched as the greatest attack ever on American soil was deliberately engineered by this criminal cabal.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal used our shock and paranoia to stampede us into a war with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, on the basis of lies.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal dismantled our Bill of Rights, and rescinded habeas corpus.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal spied indiscriminately, without warrants or oversight.
We stood by and watched as our “president” drafted over 750 signing statements, declaring himself above the law.
We stood by as this criminal cabal rigged the 2004 election, using the same tactics it used to secure the 2000 election.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal imprisoned suspects without trial, and practiced torture upon them.
We stood by and watched as this criminal cabal ruthlessly politicized the Justice Department, insuring that we will never see another truly impartial and fair election in our lifetimes.
We stood by and watched as a new Attorney General was confirmed, despite refusing to acknowledge that waterboarding is torture, and despite maintaining that the President is above the law in times of war.
And now, we’re standing by and watching as this criminal cabal agitates for war against yet another nation that has done nothing to us, again on the basis of lies.
(I’m sure I missed a few things…please feel free to add them below.)
The verdict is just. We don’t deserve freedom.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:32 pmRuss Feingold is one of the true patriots left in politics today. I’m proud to have donated money to his organization. I wish he had run for President.
November 7th, 2007 at 12:41 pmI’d vote for Feingold in a heartbeat.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:00 pmResponse to 26
Actually, the majority of U.S. citizens elected John Kerry in 2004. However, about 1.6 million of their votes were thrown out due to errors such as voting in the wrong precinct, insufficiently punching chads on defective machines, or being black.
Comment by toasterhead — November 7, 2007 @ 12:29 pm
I wish that I could agree. However, just as in 2000, the DEMOCRAT party would not stand up for democracy.. I could understand Gore making the mistake. How do you let it happen twice? How do you let the blatantly illegal and unconstitutional actions of the presidency continue without getting the spine up to push Bush on even one issue?
November 7th, 2007 at 1:19 pmResponse to 27:
While I may disagree with some minor points you’ve cited, JMOHR, it saddens me to admit that I’m in complete agreement with your conclusion.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — November 7, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Some who have seen my prior posts on this and other sites will see a definite change in my attitude. At one time I believed in this country and the Democratic party.
I am a recovering attorney. I had loved the law and this democracy from the 3rd grade when I decided to be an attorney. By the time I was in high school, I was already a fixture in the county law library. I knew how to Shepardize a case and use West’s citation system. I believed in our system of justice. I knew that it was not perfect. I knew that there were prejudices, inequality and criminals. However, the system always seemed to advance in the right direction.
My faith in the system, my faith in the law and my faith in our democracy have been shattered. The truth does not matter. Issues do not matter. We live in a country dedicated to winner take all. It is death to the loser. No wonder why we have adopted a “whatever it takes” attitude. It has poisoned our country. It has destroyed our future. After a quarter century of practicing law, I came to understand when a client or opponent no longer had the spirit to carry on the fight. I see that in the DEMOCRAT party. I see that in the American people.
We were a country that had so much promise. We had achieved so much in the past. We had the potential to achieve so much more in the future. grieve for the death of the American spirit.
For too long, I have noticed the signs of my own spirit failing. It is hard to give up on an idea or a country. But I have.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:35 pmJMOHR sez:
It’s not an issue of spine…it’s an issue of complicity.
The Democrats are not cowards…they’re merely acting that part, just as the Republicans act the part of incompetent fools. They’re actually full accomplices.
many people bemoan the state of the two-party system in this country, not even aware that there aren’t two parties at all…just two heads of the same beast.
November 7th, 2007 at 1:44 pm31…so jmohr, have you found the twelve-step secret to recovery for those of us to thought we were litigating for a good reason, protecting the rights of the citizenry? They (The Hearsay Experts for You) are wearing me down, too. As I wrote a few minutes ago at huffpo. the laptop e-mail war is clearly not enough and after seven years, my energy is getting low. Pretty pathetic, and a good thing I’m not aong the real soldiers that have been fighting for the last five years. C’mon, we need to get our chins up. There are some freshmen legislators who are trying to make a dent and need our help.
November 7th, 2007 at 2:09 pmIn Washington Tuesday, members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee savaged Yahoo CEO Jerry Yang and General Counsel Michael Callahan for the company’s involvement in the 2005 jailing of a Chinese dissident. But if their bipartisan criticism of Yahoo’s behavior - cooperating with a Chinese government “subpoena-like document” to supply information about journalist accused of the “illegal provision of state secrets” - sounds disingenuous, it should. After all, those are trademark tactics of the Bush administration and its Republican amen corner in the aftermath of 9/11.
For the details, see:
November 7th, 2007 at 3:36 pm“Yahoo, Communist China and Bush’s America.”
Response to RS Olive (Comment 33): No, I confronted a clear choice in going forward with the trial of a government construction contract case where my witnesses had fabricated daily project logs and putting my legal career on the line to inform our client and stop the case from going to trial. I found out that the firm was least interested in investigating the facts of the matter. The client was relieved that the case did not go ahead, but was unwilling to do anything to support the counsel who advised them of the matter and prevented a potentially embarrassing situation at trial. (one gets the feeling that they really preferred the case to go ahead with the falsified daily logs.)
I learned two things from the experience:
1. It never pays to merely disclose a wrong doing. You must be prepared for total warfare and you must go to gut or kill your opponent using whatever legal or illegal means are necessary.
2. The legal profession became a business. When I entered practice it was still a profession. That has long since disappeared.
I have seen the same with the DEMOCRAT party and this country. It is not a matter of my giving up. It is the sorry fact that the country and its citizens have given up.
November 7th, 2007 at 3:48 pm