DeLay: ‘No American Is Denied Health Care In America’
DeLay: ‘No American Is Denied Health Care In America’
Speaking in the UK yesterday, former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) predicted that if a Democrat is elected president in 2008, he or she would seek to install universal health care, similar to the system in Britain. This possibility “received thunderous applause.” DeLay claimed that, under the U.S. system, “no American is denied health care”:
By the way, there’s no one denied health care in America. There are 47 million people who don’t have health insurance, but no American is denied health care in America.
The audience, understandably, greeted DeLay’s preposterous claims with “derisive laughter,” according to the AP. A recent report showed that for the sixth straight year, jobholders continued to see a decline in employer-provided health insurance, with 38 states seeing “significant” drops in benefits offered by employers.
Observers estimate that anywhere from one to 18 percent of Americans are denied health insurance because of pre-existing health conditions. These conditions can range from heart disease to high cholesterol to yeast infections to being too skinny. A few examples of Americans who were denied health care:
Texas resident Shirley Lowe was denied health care because her breast cancer was diagnosed at a medical center rather than a clinic receiving federal cancer-research funds.
New Orleans bus driver Emanuel Wilson was denied health care when the government refused to pay for his chemotherapy because he had had a job that had provided insurance — a job he lost after Hurricane Katrina.
Thousands of 9/11 workers who worked at Ground Zero were denied health care when the federal government approved woefully inadequate funds to address the permanent health problems, such as sinusitis and asthma, associated with work at the site.
As Michael Moore’s film “Sicko” showed so clearly, millions more Americans who have health insurance are denied the care they need due to insurers’ “cost-cutting strategies.”
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do people who get indicted get to keep their health insurance?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:09 pmWhy do so many photographs of Republicans make me angry? Don’t you just want to kick him in the teeth and watch him cry?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:12 pmDesperate for a headline, Delay of Game makes an ass out of himself yet once again.
As Sherrif Bart so succinctly put it.
“He desperate, HE DESPERATE!”
November 9th, 2007 at 4:12 pmYeah, and there aren’t any homosexuals in Iran, either.
*eyeroll*
November 9th, 2007 at 4:12 pmListening to anything Tom DeLay says is as pointless as pillows in a coffin.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:12 pmI would’ve loved to see Delay get heckled by a room filled with people smarter than he is.
Delay’s comments are echoed quite often. The idea that, if you walk into an emergency room with a hatchet in your head, they’ll stitch you up (at least, they’re supposed to) regardless of whether or not you have insurance somehow equals that you can’t be denied healthcare. It’s “true” in same way you can argue that a date that ends with sex is like prostitution, except that the man provided dinner and entertainment worth x amount of dollars instead of just giving that money to the women directly. Make that argument if you want, but it makes you a jackass in the eyes of everyone with at least half a brain in their head, and it proves how little you think of everyone around you, thinking of them strictly in terms of what they can provide for you (or to you) instead of what they as human beings deserve.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:13 pmLittle Tommy will lose his health insurance when he is convicted and goes to jail. However, he will have a “personal” physician who has office hours once a month in the prison.
. . . and he will have a cell-mate who will give him a daily procto exam.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:13 pmI think my compulsion toward kicking Republicans in the teeth has something to do with their arrogant, smug attitudes.
Hillary’s lucky she’s a female, because her picture somehow elicits the same response in my gut.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pmDelay is so out of touch, with reality, that he should be put into a mental institution for his own safety.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:16 pmYah, great system, let the government clerks decide on your behalf, they do so well with everything else.
From the Daily Mail (Great Britain)
By LUCY LAING – Last updated at 01:08am on 27th October 2007
‘Faced with the prospect of losing her father to cancer, Chantelle Hill reacted a little differently to the average six-year-old.
Instead of letting the grown-ups deal with it, she decided to save him herself.
Now, she has raised more than £4,000 to buy the life-saving drugs David Hill needs after he was told they were not available to him on the Health Service.
The drug Mr Hill needs is called Tarceva. It is available for free in Scotland but not in England, as the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence found it was not “an effective use of NHS resources”.
Although it is not a cure, Tarceva has been shown to extend the lives of patients with cancers such as Mr Hill’s and to improve their quality of life. It has been welcomed by cancer specialists around the world and is used extensively in Europe and the US. ‘
November 9th, 2007 at 4:18 pm“derisive laughter,†I like the fact that they gave him the same reception that I would have, except I would also gave him a “one” finger salute also.
Delay you’re a crook, no one listens to you anymore, get lost, eat sh!t and die a-hole.
Buck Fush
November 9th, 2007 at 4:19 pm“DeLay: ‘No American Is Denied Health Care In America’ ”
Now that subject title right there tells me that The Hammer is on drugs and on another planet.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:19 pmNo one is denied EMERGENCY healthcare in America.
You’re more than welcome to die slowly though if you don’t have insurance/money.
Delay is a fool.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:22 pmThe drug Mr Hill needs is called Tarceva. It is available for free in Scotland but not in England
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
————————————–
Thanks for posting this article! It really demonstrates how Scotland’s system is great for offering the drug for free.
I assume that’s why you posted it…
November 9th, 2007 at 4:22 pmMinotaur, that is a great idea.
Put kids to work in order to pay for something the government should do. Like those 8 y/o Bangladesh prostitutes…
November 9th, 2007 at 4:23 pmsure… no one is denied “health” care in this country — just don’t come down with any thing, because its the “sick” care that you will be denied.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:29 pmWhat percentage of Congress has been denied health care for any reason? Who pays for congressional health care (insurance)? Is there any company in America that provides its employees with health insurance but the employer is exempt from participating?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pmbwahahaha — i absolutely love the brits for laughing at this texas turd to his bloated, ugly face.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pmThanks for posting this article! It really demonstrates how Scotland’s system is great for offering the drug for free.
Doesn’t really help the British father in question though, does it?
DeLay was talking to a British audience who were busy laughing derisively…I did read that somewhere in the thread, right?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:31 pmMinotaur, that is a great idea.
Put kids to work in order to pay for something the government should do. Like those 8 y/o Bangladesh prostitutes…
Or be forced to find an answer for your health needs outside of the perfect government system that has somehow found a way to deny you, in effect being not so perfect anymore.
Like I said, do you really want a gov’ment clerk deciding that the medicine you need didn’t make the official list of approved medications so you are SOL?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:35 pmDoesn’t really help the British father in question though, does it?
DeLay was talking to a British audience who were busy laughing derisively…I did read that somewhere in the thread, right?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
November 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pm—————————————
You’re completely right again! Scotland rules! You’re one compassionate conservative, Minotaur.
They also boot people from health insurance. Kevin Drum had an article about it. Rescession.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pmAhem *Rescission
November 9th, 2007 at 4:37 pmLike I said, do you really want a gov’ment clerk deciding that the medicine you need didn’t make the official list of approved medications so you are SOL?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
November 9th, 2007 at 4:38 pm———————————-
No different than my current insurance company denying coverage for something they deem to be experimental, right?
What percentage of Congress has been denied health care for any reason? Who pays for congressional health care (insurance)? Is there any company in America that provides its employees with health insurance but the employer is exempt from participating?
Comment by Bob — November 9, 2007 @ 4:30 pm
————–
Brilliant!!! Yes, let’s use that as our “Employer Sponsored Plan” model!!
I award you +10 internets
November 9th, 2007 at 4:39 pmYou’re completely right again! Scotland rules! You’re one compassionate conservative, Minotaur.
Now all we have to do is figure out if the great nation of Scotland covers every medication and treatment that the British plan allows.
Just think of the demographic shifts we could see in europe: cancer patients in Scotland, AIDS patients in Spain, neurological disorder patients in Germany and assorted broken bones in England.
Thank Gaia for EuroPassâ„¢, imagine having to travel from Ireland to Italy for your flu shot.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pmNo different than my current insurance company denying coverage for something they deem to be experimental, right?
Comment by Vet — November 9, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
I completely agree which might hopefully, one day, lead us to some sort of compromise program.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pmI would rather have a government clerk making the decision, then a for profit HMO. They aren’t terribly reliable. My Uncle is in the process of battling cancer, and they routinely have to resubmit bills 2 or 3 times before the insurance company will pay them.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:43 pmLike I said, do you really want a gov’ment clerk deciding that the medicine you need didn’t make the official list of approved medications so you are SOL?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
It’s either that or a private insurer doing exactly the same thing. Would you rather than the insurer, be it public or private, simply paid for any treatment or medication regardless of cost or efficacy? I’m glad you’re not running any health care programs.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmNo system is perfect, but considering Americans already PAY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, OURS IS A DISGRACE – AS ARE YOU!
Which was the basis of my point about the British father, no system is perfect, even the state-sponsored system in England.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:47 pmPredictions of the next 911 by a Professional Geologist.
http://www.H2onE2.com Glacial Respiration, Conceptual Ring of Ice, The End of Linear Western Religion
A Geological Exploration of an E2 Earthen Planet And the H2 Human Species
Author: B Billy Marse, Professional Geologist
Brief Description:
http://www.H2onE2.com is an exploration of the universe, geology, climate, biology, humans, psychology, folklore and ancient structures to uncover the beginning and disclose the end of linear western religion. The true DaVinci Code behind the bible is not a supreme spiritual power but a scientific record of climate change described as Glacial Respiration. The Greek philosophers originated the practice of communicating a hidden idea or message in the short story format, as a metaphor. In the bible, metaphors conceal historic climate change within the fanciful stories. The theory of Glacial Respiration explains the myth behind the Holy Grail, structures such as the Great Pyramids, Stonehenge, Easter Island and is the knowledge that was collected in the Jewish Ark of the Covenant.
The environmental changes of Glacial Respiration determine all biological evolution and can explain why higher forms of intelligent humans developed. Further, Glacial Respiration releases the secret hidden by the Knights Templars, Masonic Order and all religions. Uncovers an advanced Blue-Blooded semi-industrial Atlantian Civilization that was built and destroyed many times over for the last million years. The book ends with an explanation of how linear western religion will be physically ended and describes the construction of the doomsday device capable of fulfilling its own self defining prophesy, “Revelationsâ€. H2onE2 is a mind-expanding experience that stimulates the soul, instinct, intellect and is an almanac to the past, present and future of humanity. Rise, awaken and evolve into H3 human consciousness.
The discovery:
November 9th, 2007 at 4:49 pmAs a Professional Geologist, I attempted to link the Dust Bowl/Great Depression to a pre-glacial condition or mechanism and ended up writing the book H2onE2. I felt that there was a strong connection between the Dust Bowl and transition back into Glacial Winter. I did notice that my professors scientifically crumbled every time I mentioned the relationship. I could not go back in time or locate indisputable proof. The proof came from understanding all educational disciplines including history and theology. I soon discovered that all religious text both eastern and western continually described significant climate change conditions relating to Glacial Respiration. For years I fought off mixing science and religion until I discovered that the origins of all religions were founded or created to help humans psychologically survive the harsh earthen environment. Without reason I soon accepted that the world’s complicated religions were the same. This came true and I continued to write and discover. Everything came into place as though I was unlocking a 10,000-year-old puzzle. I also realized this puzzle was opened before I discovered it, by someone else, some other group. If so, further understanding of this knowledge might be extracted from significant historical events. Lastly, this is the vital information needed to make future predictions.
Why isn’t Delay in jail?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmIt’s either that or a private insurer doing exactly the same thing.
Which again is the point I made. The British NHS denied coverage to a citizen so the citizen, in effect, found an alternate method to provide the treatment he needed, in his particular case it was charitable giving.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:54 pmBritain gets what the World Health Organization calls better results spending less than half of what we do per patient.
Medicare, a single-payer system, runs with about a 3% overhead. The VA, a socialized medical system, runs with about a 4% overhead. Our insurance-based system runs with between 18 and 35% overhead.
The difference can be accounted for by adding up the profit-taking, CEO salaries (one CEO got $1.6 BILLION for one year) and the fact that the insurance industry employs thousands of people for the express intent of denying healthcare.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:56 pmWhich was the basis of my point about the British father, no system is perfect, even the state-sponsored system in England.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 4:47 pm
When did we become England? How far off-topic can you go? did the Brits laugh at Delay because their system is faulty, or because he was lying through his teeth? If the British system is so bad, why haven’t they adopted the American system? How did you get to be as stupid as TCDon?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:57 pmConsidering they spend a fraction of what we do, have better coverage, and better healthcare – well that’s like complaining that someone isn’t Einstein even though they’re a genius – and YOU are ‘tarded!
The British NHS lacks a family doctor service, has inefficient long-term care services and a diminished priority for cancer patients (see my example above). Don’t even get me started on the dentistry.
And as for the oldsters in society, only the neediest elderly will receive publicly-funded assistance at home; those with “mild to moderate needs†must rely on alternative resources.
For the slow like you this means “other than govment healthcare”.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:02 pmEvil incarnate…
November 9th, 2007 at 5:03 pmMy wife needed to be taken to the hospital in an emergency situation. After she was stabilized she was sent to another hospital by ambulance. My insurance company paid for the first ambulance ride to the original hospital but refused to pay for the second ride because it wasn’t an “emergency” situation. Even though there was no way they would have released her to ride with me, take a cab or bus to the next hospital and she was medicated and needed further treatment. I fought them for months and months on this and finally after the ambulatory service sent my case to a collection agency I had to pay.
My story isn’t that bad but it shows just how they nuance things to not pay for things they should. It cost over about $800 for a single ride.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pmI would guess that Tom Delay classifies me as “No American” along with about 41 million other people who happen to live legally within our nation’s borders.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pmWhen did we become England? How far off-topic can you go? did the Brits laugh at Delay because their system is faulty, or because he was lying through his teeth? If the British system is so bad, why haven’t they adopted the American system?
Why did the British audience give “thunderous applause” when Delay said the U.S. might see a govment health system similar to that of Britain’s? When did we become Britain?
The British system isn’t bad but it certainly isn’t perfect, which is to say that instituting a British-type system will improve some things and not improve others. Hence the need for a compromise system between govment and private healthcare providers. You do understand “compromise” or is that too deep for you?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pmWhile the debate over the health care crisis in America remains focused on the expansion of S-CHIP and the competing proposals of the 2008 presidential candidates, a new study revealed the continuing and steady decline of employer-based health coverage in the United States. Once the lynchpin of the U.S. health care system, workplace health insurance now covers only 59.7% of Americans, down from 64.2% in 2000. And making matters worse, surging health care costs, insurance premiums and employees’ own contributions continue to exceed inflation and the growth in wages.
For the details, see:
November 9th, 2007 at 5:08 pm“Employer-Provided Health Coverage Continues to Decline.”
Never compare the Brittish system as inferior to ours. I lived under it for 18 months and under the German one for two years. Both were superior to the one we have to endure here and both were virtually free, including pharms.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:10 pmMinataur:
Do the research on the drug Tavera:
It is only approved for late stage terminal cancers (Stage 3 small cell lung cancer and pancreatic cancer in the US) and it typically leads to resistance within less than a year – so it can prolong life (sometimes – the actual data is weak) for just a short period of time. It is not some miracle cure or last hope – it is just not that effective.
so – the British have decided that it is not an approved drug. big deal. Is that your entire argument?
People in GB live longer and pay less (much less) for their health care. We spend more on helath care than any other country but we rank in the middle to lower middle in life expectancy. Also, at every age poeple in GB have less disease than we do – less heart attacks, less type II diabetes and less chronic disease. So explain why our system is better?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:12 pmFirst Rove, now DeLay on TP. I assume, like Rove, that he failed to get the memo also emphatically concluding his irrelevance. Get thee to the memo post haste, Tom. Also, like Rove, shouldn’t he be in jail yet?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:15 pmMinotaur: “The British system isn’t bad but it certainly isn’t perfect…”
Assuming nobody hear is foolish enough to expect perfection, shouldn’t we install the best system possible? Saying other systems aren’t perfect is a strawman argument designed to obfuscate the issue.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pmMinotaur is arguing about Britain denying payment for a drug that may extend your life for a year while he defends a govt that makes medical mj illegal. Explain that douche.
No system is perfect. And no system will cover every drug on the market. You can’t complain on the one hand that insuring everyone will raise your taxes & then complain on the other hand that every drug under the sun isn’t covered. All you’re doing is raising strawmen while you ignore the huge gaps in coverage by the current U.S. system. Of course there will be problems in the medical system of any country you examine. That doesn’t mean they’re not miles ahead of the garbage foisted on the American people. The system we have in Canada isn’t perfect but I wouldn’t trade it for what you’ve got. Not for a second.
But way to avoid the point of this article… that Delay doesn’t have a clue. You’ve actually reinforced that point by showing that you also do not have a clue. Way to be!
November 9th, 2007 at 5:17 pmNever compare the Brittish system as inferior to ours. I lived under it for 18 months and under the German one for two years. Both were superior to the one we have to endure here and both were virtually free, including pharms.
It isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare. A pure-tax, socialized system will still need to cope with paying wages and buying material (meds and equipment) and the only way to gain more funds is to raise taxes.
Especially in a services economy like Britains, where wages rise regularly, the NHS must also hike their wages to compete with the private sector. Again, there is only one well to turn to for more money, even though increased spending won’t mean increased amount or quality of treatment.
You pay for it, just not directly from your wallet.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:18 pmIt isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
The inane wars that GWB keeps starting, and you keep supporting aren’t free either. They’re unnecessary, but not free. And you’ve found a way to accept that expenditure. How could you deny medical coverage to Americans? On what basis?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:20 pmI have sent a chronicle of my own story, of health care denied, to both of my Senators, my U.S. Rep, and several members of State government. All have responded and we have continued correspondence.
I will send a copy to Mr. Delaying and I’ll post if he responds. Please, don’t hold your breath. Except you, minotaur. Your presence befouls polite company like the unclean beast who’s name you dishonor.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:21 pmYou pay for it, just not directly from your wallet.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
You can tell that the British are crippled by these costs, given that the Pound is roughly twice the value of the dollar.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:21 pmHe isn’t in jail yet. Now Mikie our new AG might find a way to make sure the criminal GOP criminals get off and with the help of Rudy and Mitt these criminals can get back to Washington and do what they do best commit crimes. The world is laughing at how stupid our Law Makers are and how much of an idiot the President is. Daddy Bush is still crying over his weak, drunk, stupid baby boy George. Cheney is busy stealing US money right now.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pmActually the British system IS A COMPROMISE, you ‘tarded little fool! That COMPROMISE is part of where many of their problems come from. But you didn’t know that, did you little fool?
It is a compromise of necessity on the part of the citizens, not the govment. The British govment decides what it will cover and what it won’t but the citizens won’t be taxed less if certain meds don’t make the list, in that case they are on their own.
The U.S. govment regulates a great many private things in our society, it could take a hand in regulating health-care too such as large bonus payouts and denying service on technicalities (for example).
November 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pmYah, great system, let the government clerks decide on your behalf, they do so well with everything else.
I would rather have a government clerk decide on my health benefits than a clerk in a for-profit HMO. The government clerk has no incentive to make sure I don’t get the care I need. The clerk in the for-profit HMO does have an incentive to make sure I don’t get the care I need.
Don’t listen to Minotaur’s scare story either. My sister lives in England and the only reason why she is still there is their health care system. She has never been denied any health care she needs and she knows of no one else who has. There are occasional stories like the one that Minotaur quotes, but they are very few and far between. Much less than the hundreds of thousands of stories in this country of people who died because they couldn’t get health care or people who were bankrupted and made homeless because their insurance policy didn’t cover much of the care they needed.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pmIt isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare. A pure-tax, socialized system will still need to cope with paying wages and buying material (meds and equipment) and the only way to gain more funds is to raise taxes.
Especially in a services economy like Britains, where wages rise regularly, the NHS must also hike their wages to compete with the private sector. Again, there is only one well to turn to for more money, even though increased spending won’t mean increased amount or quality of treatment.
You pay for it, just not directly from your wallet.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Sure the money comes from somebody’s wallet. The fundimental problem is that 2/3’s of the money goes into insurer’s and pharm’s wallets and the rest is devoted to care.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:29 pmLike I said, do you really want a gov’ment clerk deciding that the medicine you need didn’t make the official list of approved medications so you are SOL?
Comment by Minotaur
Do you have any idea how many drugs are not on the HMO’s approved drug lists. Want to bet that the drug you are talking about is one of them? And you would rather have a for-profit HMO clerk who gets bonuses for denying coverage make medical life and death decisions for you? If so, you are an even bigger fool than you appear to be.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:29 pmConsidering the enormous legal and ethical baggage DeLay carries with him, how in the world is he giving speeches in the UK seemingly representing the US politics ?
Kind of like having a mass murder giving speeches on mercy.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:33 pmYeah, that’s REALLY BAD TAXING Minotaur! You’re a moron!
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 9, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
Great, now the completely medically covered British dad can head home to die because the govment decided his needed meds didn’t fit under the heading of “necessary”.
You can only tax people 100% of what they earn (though not recommended) or else you have to meter the provided services, leading to the case of Mr. Brit here who had to turn to alternate means to get what he needed to live.
If demand outstrips supply of ANYTHING, someone is going to go without and this includes state healthcare, and if the state provides a product they might just decide to provide you with a list of required guidelines to live by, bumping smack into certain Constitutional guarantees that we all enjoy.
Now I know on your planet everything is free, but since you and Kucinich are the only ones ON that planet, resources are probably pretty abundant.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:33 pmIt isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare. A pure-tax, socialized system will still need to cope with paying wages and buying material (meds and equipment) and the only way to gain more funds is to raise taxes.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
I defy you to name one person who has advocated your mythical “pure-tax socialized system”. Don’t bother, there’s no such person.
Here’s the deal:
If individual companies compete, the total price go’s down. If everybody pays, everybody’s covered. If everybody pays, what they can afford, the average price go’s down. If the average price go’s down, those who, currently, pay the most WOULD PAY LESS!!!
Why would politicians, from both sides of the aisle, block such a reasonable course of action?
1. Democrats: They are being paid by those who make the most profit.
2. Republicans: See above, plus, they vote party lines on legislation brought by the Democrats who aren’t in the pockets of industry.
Get it!
November 9th, 2007 at 5:34 pmHalf-man,Half-Bull: “It isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare.”
Another lame strawman argument. Nobody ever said it was free. The question is what works best. Again, we pay much more than the rest of the industrialized world per capita for poorer results.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:35 pmHalf-man,Half-Bull: “It isn’t free, someone always needs to pay for everything, even govment healthcare.â€
Another lame strawman argument. Nobody ever said it was free. The question is what works best. Again, we pay much more than the rest of the industrialized world per capita for poorer results.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 9, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
November 9th, 2007 at 5:37 pmIt’s all bull shit.
Hey, Ret Col.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:40 pmI wonder what these retards do as they retreat from their mother’s basements into the real world.
The British NHS lacks a family doctor service, has inefficient long-term care services and a diminished priority for cancer patients (see my example above). Don’t even get me started on the dentistry.
And as for the oldsters in society, only the neediest elderly will receive publicly-funded assistance at home; those with “mild to moderate needs†must rely on alternative resources.
For the slow like you this means “other than govment healthcareâ€.
Comment by Minotaur
And you know this how? Do you live in England? My sister lives there and she would dispute everything you have said. She won’t come back here because of the benefits she gets in England. She has a private doctor and even one that came to her home in the middle of the night once. And every citizen in England is eligible for public funded assistance no matter what their age is. If someone is homeless, they find lodging for them and give them money to feed themselves.
My sister once told me, why should I come back to a country where the people are not respected, where health care and basic needs are considered to be a right and not a privilege.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:43 pmYou want GOVERNMENT REGULATION? So you TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO PREVENT DENIAL OF SERVICE, but you DON’T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO NOT GIVE DENIAL OF SERVICE?
I said “regulate” you ignant bug eater, not run. The idea is to regulate service and investigate indiscrepancies, not to outlaw EVERY denial of service, some of which may be justified.
Now get back to your Dora© cartoons.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:44 pmI wonder what these retards do as they retreat from their mother’s basements into the real world.
Comment by WaltTheMan — November 9, 2007 @ 5:40 pm
They run back inside while screaming, “Help me Mommy! There’s LEFTISTS!! LEFTISTS!!!”
November 9th, 2007 at 5:44 pmAnd you know this how?
From an article in the Harvard Review which did a study of the British NHS.
Really, do you believe that everyone who opines on a blog just happens to know intimate details about such diverse topics as the British healthcare system, the Pakistani government or French civilian nuclear policy?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:49 pmOf course, if the “minnow-turd” could find it’s way out of it’s maze, it would have done so within the last couple thousand years. I don’t think we need to worry about it breaking out of the basement.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:49 pmDeLay: ‘No American Is Denied Health Care In America’
November 9th, 2007 at 5:51 pmThen someone tell me why 18,000, not seniors or disabled as they have medicare, die each year because of lack of health care. I am sick to death of these greedy bastards playing politics around lies that are killing thousands of our working class. And these folks call themselves Christians????
Walt: “Hey, Ret Col.
I wonder what these retards do as they retreat from their mother’s basements into the real world.”
It’s very strange. I think we’re dealing with a certain kind of person. John Dean hit the nail on the head with his “Conservatives without Conscience.” Possibly 25% of the population could be classified by professionals as having “sociopathic tendencies.” By coincidence about 24% of the population believes Bush has been leading the country in the right direction.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:51 pmReally, do you believe that everyone who opines on a blog just happens to know intimate details about such diverse topics as the British healthcare system, the Pakistani government or French civilian nuclear policy?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
Actually, yes, some people know more than others. Just as virtually everyone here knows more than you about, well, just about anything.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:52 pmReally, do you believe that everyone who opines on a blog just happens to know intimate details about such diverse topics as the British healthcare system, the Pakistani government or French civilian nuclear policy?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:49 pm
Gee. All that and you don’t have a clue about the people just outside your door? How very sad. All that potential, pissed away.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:52 pmHey RHF, Gum, Col and the rest. This argument has drifted into a topic I hold dear. Authoritarians. I’m not trying to further derail things but, if you get a chance you should check out this link. It’s a must read.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
November 9th, 2007 at 5:55 pmIf GuvMunt is SO INCOMPETENT, why can’t they run, but they can regulate, you ignorant sh!!teater?
You have been sifting through cat litter too often my boy, much too often.
Regulate means the govment can set certain standards and monitor conduct within those standards for accuracy, a far cry from actually performing the work. Do you understand that yet or should I get Kucinich to zap your brain with his alien-technology skull blaster?
Now I know that you are dumb (judging by your increasingly aberrant posts), I just didn’t realize HOW dumb until now.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmDeLay needed to qualify his statement a little more.
He said, “There are 47 million people who don’t have health insurance, but no American is denied health care in America.”
He needed to say, “There are 47 million people who don’t have health insurance, but no American is denied health care in America as long as they can pay for it.”
Or he could have said, “There are 47 million people who don’t have health insurance, but no American is denied health care in America in an emergency room if they are experiencing a genuine medical emergency, and they will be charged for their care. Of course, medical costs IS the biggest reason for bankruptcy in our country.”
November 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pmThis is most likely the source of Minotaur’s claim about Harvard’s REVIEW.
Or tell us Minotaur, do you have an ACTUAL REVIEW to point to? Or is this ‘article’ what passes for REVIEW among you ignorant wingnuts?
http://hir.harvard.edu/articles/1543/
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 9, 2007 @ 5:54 pm
In all likelihood, he was merely parroting what some other wingnut wrote about what he read in this particular article and certainly not through any actual research.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:57 pmOn Bernie Wards show a caller called in concerned about Hillary’s health care plan. This caller, age 67, on dialysis for a number of years claims Hillary’s health care plan in the ’90’s would limit those receiving dialysis to only age 55.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:58 pmDo you understand that yet or should I get Kucinich to zap your brain with his alien-technology skull blaster?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
What’s with the Kucinich obsession? I would think that a “smart” troll like yourself would know he’s just a “shiny rabbit” to take your attention away from Hillary.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:00 pmNow I know that you are dumb (judging by your increasingly aberrant posts), I just didn’t realize HOW dumb until now.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
Coming from someone with the acumen of roadkill, this is great humor.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:00 pmI agree with that Walt. If they could cut out the middle man (corporations) and go to a single payer system, it would be a very good start. SO much more would go to actually caring for the patients – and not just that patients who could afford it.
My husband is a physician for poor patients that can’t afford health insurance and are on State Aid. He comes home with horror stories every day of the week. Its very discouraging and his hands are tied by the medical care beauracracies. Tom DeLay doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Its out there, its prevalent, he just hasn’t seen it up close and personal. He’s a fool.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:01 pmComing from someone with the acumen of roadkill, this is great humor.
Comment by gummitch — November 9, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
Well, at least this one has the sense to stay around the topic, while not actually offering anything. It’s an interesting trick. Kinda like a cat that can flush a toilet.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:04 pmIs this the same Tom DeLay who wrote the book “No Retreat, No Surrender” shortly after he retreated from Congress in disgrace and surrendered his seat to a Democrat in 2006?
November 9th, 2007 at 6:08 pmIn all likelihood, he was merely parroting what some other wingnut wrote about what he read in this particular article and certainly not through any actual research.
Well at least you are following the libfloggian template of declaring any opposing viewpoint as wingnuttery, you get an A for consistency.
I guess you need to dig farther and see what this guy from Harvard had to reference, groups like the Kings Fund and the Royal Commission on Long-Term Care.
Ya see, researching things on the web often demands referencing things that OTHER people have already researched…because not all of us are between jobs with lots o’ time to spend at the keyboard.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:09 pmSays the MORON that thought an ARTICLE IN A JOURNAL was a REVIEW OF ENGLAND’S HEALTHCARE!
Comical, to say the least. Perhaps you need to get your boyfriend to read it to you again, the article that HIGHLIGHTS certain discrepancies in the British healthcare system and never claimed to be complete review of said system.
You see…highlights are meant to point out certain pros and cons of something without subjecting the reader to a full-blown perusal.
D@mn, if I have to kick your buck-teeth out on these simple things any longer, imagine how tired I’ll be when I do it for real.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:17 pmHalf-man, Half-bull: if I have to kick your buck-teeth out on these simple things any longer, imagine how tired I’ll be when I do it for real.”
Poor little Bush cultist. He’s getting frustrated and cranky and has resorted to threats of violence. Good job, dumbass.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:22 pmCall your representatives today and tell them you support HR676, and you want this bill passed. Learn more:
What is Single Payer Health Care?
Single Payer Plan, the ONLY Solution
What the American College of Physicians say about Single Payer.
Text of HR676 (United States Health Insurance Act)
By the way folks, I WAS DENIED HEALTH CARE in 2005 after being downsized from a Fortune 100 company and losing my health insurance. I am a lifelong survivor of Congenital Heart Disease, my Cardiologist supports HR676 and so do most of the doctors I speak to daily. It is time we start to take care of our own, it is time we take back the country from the Oligarchy who would run us into oblivion for the sake of profit.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:22 pmBottom line is that DeLay is maybe one of the biggest scumbags to wear the elephant pin and that covers a LOT of ground!
Any troll here that will defend that clown has shown his/her true colors to being a traitor to this country and to humanity in general.
Tommy and Dubya are two examples of why there should be abortions in Texas.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:25 pmSo you ADMIT THAT YOU LIED about it being a HARVARD REVIEW?
NICE!!!See, just because you LIED and you were IGNORANT doesn’t mean that OTHERS ARE – which is YOUR ASSUMPTION – POOR OLD ‘TARD!!!
Umm, I said this you bloviating chimney sweep:
“From an article in the Harvard Review
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 5:49 pm”
Now most people would catch on that ‘The Harvard Review’ wasn’t an actual review of the British NHS because you would never be able to tell ANY review apart if they were all called simply “The Harvard Review”.
Similar to calling every model of automobile “The Car”, such a practice wouldn’t make sense, except perhaps to the really doltish biscuit-eaters who inhabit your particular goof-ghetto.
Go sift your cat-litter, junior.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:26 pmTom Delay and other politicians really are out of touch, aren’t they? Many Americans are denied health care.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:28 pmYa see, researching things on the web often demands referencing things that OTHER people have already researched…because not all of us are between jobs with lots o’ time to spend at the keyboard.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 6:09 pm
You might want to think about getting a library card and doing “research” somewhere else besides the Internet. Crack a book, in other words.
Ha. As if.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:29 pmDo you understand that yet or should I get Kucinich to zap your brain with his alien-technology skull blaster?
Comment by Minotaur
No No No, it was Ronny Raygun that saw UFOs and created the Star Wars system
November 9th, 2007 at 6:33 pmPoor little Bush cultist. He’s getting frustrated and cranky and has resorted to threats of violence. Good job, dumbass.
Nah, just returning the favor to the really stupid liver-flukes you have swimming around here.
Most of you dimwits OPEN your post with an insult and only then do you take a tortured stab at formulating a response; kind of throws a wrench into the symbolic intent of the word “think” which constitutes the name of this site.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:35 pmComment by Minotaur
Tha you MA?
November 9th, 2007 at 6:40 pmIt’s not an ARTICLE, it’s therefore not fact checked.
Articles can’t contain facts?
If you had bothered to convince your twink to read and explain the “article” to you then you might have learned that the author referenced data provided by other sources, some of which were groups directly affiliated with the British government.
Now I know that you get stuck on simple words and simple concepts so I don’t mind explaining these things to you over and over and over….and over and over and over. And over again. I just didn’t realize that ‘lernin’ libfartian marshmallow twizzle-sticks like yourself would get so tedious.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:41 pmThe arrogance is written on his face for all to see. He may make a claim like this because if you are in dire straights and go to an ER they have to treat you. At least that’s my understanding. It’s a far cry from having full medical benefits or the fact that those who have to go to the ER will get a service level well below those holding insurance. I would like to know where Mr. Delay gets his insurance or does he just simply go to the emergency room? Doctors in ER’s typically find it difficult to carry on with their ER duties and provide “doctor visits” other than emergencies. Mr. Delay’s statement belies this fact that the emergency rooms are not tasked with day to day doctor visit stuff and patients who need to visit with a regular doctor clutter the emergency room and impede real emergency cases. I think his position is dishonest and waves off any consideration of what is really needed…a health care system that is for everyone which is imbued with dignity for the patient and a real concern for outcomes by being operated in an effective and patient friendly manner. Being homeless or broke and sitting in the emergency room for hours waiting to be seen is no answer.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pmTom Delay and other politicians really are out of touch, aren’t they? Many Americans are denied health care.
Comment by ForTruth — November 9, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
And so, of course, that’s the one subject the “minnow-turd” seems to avoid at all costs. I’m one of thousands of Insured Americans who were wrongly denied urgent care. It’s effed me up pretty bad.
For Tommy to claim, “American’s are not denied health care”, is a bald faced lie. To deny this, or not accept the simple fact that our health care system needs an overhaul, is idiotic. Or malevolent.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:42 pmTo see little green men, is more of a Ronnie thing!
Comment by republicans hate facts
Greem men and pink elephants.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:44 pmStill waiting for you to criticize the INSURANCE COMPANIES FOR DENYING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE the same care you say the UK only denied ONE PERSON SO FAR?
Sorry about that, your polite request may have gotten lost in the shuffle.
Ahem:
I think its shameful and abhorrent for the insurance companies to deny care to anyone based on nothing more than the bottom line and the pursuit of large executive bonuses.
There, now you can open the valve on the side of your head and release some of that steam.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:44 pmHalf-man, Half-bull: “kind of throws a wrench into the symbolic intent of the word “think†which constitutes the name of this site.”
A statement like that would have a lot more weight if you could pose something other than lame strawman arguments. Without using a strawman, could you simply explain why you prefer a system with 30% overhead that doesn’t cover 46 million citizens to one which would have 3% overhead while covering 100% of the population. And, if your answer is money, then please explain why you prefer spending $40 million a day in Iraq rather than spending a small fraction of that shoring up our defenses here at home.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pmEh…lots of troll droppings on here tonight.
Funny. Delay, you need to find friendlier crowds before you open your mouth then shove your foot in up to the hip…
As for Ol’ Minotaur’s claim that there is a problem with the British Health-care system and suggesting a compromise…
Let me read through this first…
November 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pmAmerica has cornered the market on greed, and profits, above all else. I’m afraid if we went to a national plan, some other greedy folks would find a way to rip it off too (most likely a wingnut), then the wingnuts will say they told us so. Since when does the price of basic necessities ever go DOWN in this country?
November 9th, 2007 at 6:48 pmI’d love to see Tom Delay waiting for four hours in an emergency room waiting area while throwing up all over himself. Who knows. It could be a learning experience for him.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:50 pmOp-Eds however do NOT HAVE TO CONTAIN ANY FACTS and in fact can contain FLAT OUT LIES.
You are correct, you libcretinous powder licker, “articles” do not HAVE to contain facts and CAN (notice I said “can” and not “always do”) contain lies, but the fact that this article referenced British government data would lead a normal person to believe them.
I suppose a doohickey like yourself would want to shred such a thing all the way down to the guy who made the paper for the original government report and brand him a conservative fascist, but you are stupid and that is all that needs to be said.
You will notice I said “normal” in the first paragraph which makes me scratch my head as to why I am taking the time to explain any of this to an ABnormal brick like you. -scratches head-
November 9th, 2007 at 6:53 pmMinotaur @ 6:35: “Most of you dimwits OPEN your post with an insult and only then do you take a tortured stab at formulating a response”
Minotaur @ 6:53: “you libcretinous powder licker”
Too funny. We’re arguing with a crazy person.
November 9th, 2007 at 6:59 pmWithout using a strawman, could you simply explain why you prefer a system with 30% overhead that doesn’t cover 46 million citizens to one which would have 3% overhead while covering 100% of the population.
Ok, for the simple, and you know who you are:
I don’t prefer either system and believe that there is a compromise somewhere in between, a statement I made far back in this thread.
I don’t want an HMO refusing to pay for a required ambulance ride (as was also mentioned earlier) but I also don’t like the idea of the govment arbitrarily deciding that a certain medication doesn’t fit their definition of necessary.
Like so many other issues, this shouldn’t be one or the other, there has to be some workable compromise to be found. Overhaul the system, I’m all for it, just don’t destroy the current system in that effort.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:00 pmDelay is a lying sack of Poo and he lives in a world of delusion. As an American who is denied health care I would love to speak with Mr. Sack of Poo and explain it to him. Perhaps when he is jailed I will visit.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pmdoohcikey, twizzle-stick, powder licker, liberfartian, liver-fluke
man, I feel so so sooo, whats the word sounds like berated…but starts with ed.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:02 pmToo funny. We’re arguing with a crazy person.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 9, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
You failed to reference the context so I will assist you:
“Poor little Bush cultist. He’s getting frustrated and cranky and has resorted to threats of violence. Good job, dumbass.”
-Jack-
“Nah, just returning the favor to the really stupid liver-flukes you have swimming around here.”
-Minotaur-
Old age starting to rear its ugly head against you?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:04 pmHey stupid. I gave you an opportunity to offer a reasonable argument and, of course, you simply ignored it. Here it is again:
Without using a strawman, could you simply explain why you prefer a system with 30% overhead that doesn’t cover 46 million citizens to one which would have 3% overhead while covering 100% of the population. And, if your answer is money, then please explain why you prefer spending $40 million a day in Iraq rather than spending a small fraction of that shoring up our defenses here at home.
Let’s have it, smart guy.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:06 pmman, I feel so so sooo, whats the word sounds like berated…but starts with ed.
Comment by Xisithrus — November 9, 2007 @ 7:02 pm
Edlibcramerated?
Help me out here RHF, you’re the resident brainiac.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:07 pmOh, and half-bull, I’m not the one who whined about name-calling. You are.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:08 pmLand o goshen, half-bull knows how to use a dictionary! Veeerrrrry impressive.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:09 pmMy adult son broke his leg (shattered it) four years ago. He had no health insurance and had to be taken to the hospital by ambulance. They sent him home from the ER with some pain meds and told him to come back in the morning for his surgery because he had no insurance and they wouldn’t give him a bed. Right after the surgery (where they had to put in plates and screws and pins), they sent him home right out of the recovery room with some more pain meds. Regardless, it was around $15,000 – $20,000. He is still paying for it. Again, its been four years. He will be making payments for a long time. The hospital had to write some of that off.
He is 29 now and for the first time in his adult working life, he has health insurance. He has worked all along, but this is the first job that had any benefits. He is fortunate. Most people in this country don’t have insurance. Its not enough to say “its not my problem”, or “I’m glad its them and not me”. Well, at some point it may be you. The numbers are growing.
This is a really good editorial that explains it well.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:10 pmI am from Oregon.
Jack jack jack, like the typical democrat you gave me only two options; hate to break it to an old ped like yourself but there are more options available and neither of the two you offered are viable.
You did notice that I said earlier that I don’t prefer either system but something that hopefully can be created by merging the two. You did read that, didn’t you?
I know you have a template to stick to, the either/or Kennedy method which gives, for example, the choice of either legalizing all illegals or deporting them all but like all big issues this one is more complicated than that.
It concerns money but not ONLY money, I’m sure you can understand that.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:14 pmhalf-bull, one more time: Without using a strawman, could you simply explain why you prefer a system with 30% overhead that doesn’t cover 46 million citizens to one which would have 3% overhead while covering 100% of the population. And, if your answer is money, then please explain why you prefer spending $40 million a day in Iraq rather than spending a small fraction of that shoring up our defenses here at home.
Is it the strawman part that’s got your panties in a wad half-bull? Are you even capable of making an argument which doesn’t include strawmen?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:14 pmhalf-bull: “like the typical democrat you gave me only two options”
Yes. It’s a simple question. Which of those two systems would you prefer if those were your only options?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:16 pmOh, and half-bull, I’m not the one who whined about name-calling. You are.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 9, 2007 @ 7:08 pm
No, you whined that I was using language you didn’t agree with and I pointed out that I was merely returning the favor…and why (later in the post).
You probably didn’t get that far, nap time comes early for seasoned-citizens like yourself.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:17 pmhalf-bull: “You did notice that I said earlier that I don’t prefer either system but something that hopefully can be created by merging the two. You did read that, didn’t you?”
Yes, I saw that. It’s just another attempt to obfuscate. Again, if your options were 100% coverage at 3% overhead or 46 million with no coverage at 30% overhead, which would you prefer. It really is an easy question. Why can’t you answer it?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:18 pmhalf-bull: “nap time comes early for seasoned-citizens like yourself.”
How precious. Now, can you answer the question or do you want to continue this insult-fest?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:20 pmYes, I saw that. It’s just another attempt to obfuscate. Again, if your options were 100% coverage at 3% overhead or 46 million with no coverage at 30% overhead, which would you prefer. It really is an easy question. Why can’t you answer it?
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 9, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Because he has no idea at all and has resorted to the usual vague “there’s a compromise in there somewhere” attempt to sound wise and intelligent (and flopping miserably).
November 9th, 2007 at 7:23 pmYes. It’s a simple question. Which of those two systems would you prefer if those were your only options?
Which are the stupidest questions of all, jackie muh boy, because they don’t take into account any of the real and possible alternatives and therefore are useless exercises. They are not the only options.
The entire gist of this particular debate (if you call dealing with a marble sucker like RHF “debating”) is that the British system isn’t perfect and that the mad rush to wholesale emulation of that system will create new problems that can be just as severe.
There is a compromise program out there, it just needs to be soundly created.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:24 pmThe Conservative talking points are out in force with Minotaur. I see no suggestions of how our system can patch any of the problems with the British system.
Like you said, Minotaur, any system has its problems. At least you’re taking the conservative position here: “Don’t change it! No system is perfect, so use the one we’ve always used!” However, 50+ million American Citizens may prefer the Progressive answer…”Our system works poorer than (whatever system you choose), maybe we should investigate (that system).” But I understand the knee-jerk reflex against doing anything new, good idea or not. It’s the heart of conservatism.
Sometimes, I’ll agree. Not doing something untried without first investigating it is wise. That’s why we have you guys out there…to remind us that not every new fangled thing is good. But….
….without progress, you only get stagnation.
Stagnation hurts your ability to compete in the global market.
Eventually, countries that are doing things better than you are doing them will overtake you.
Your country will lose its position as a major country in world affairs, to say nothing of its global dominance.
Your policies will result in your country being regarded as a has-been.
Health is just one aspect of that. There’s also that whole ‘beacon of liberty’ thing we’ve lost. Don’t forget the ’safe currency to use’. We’re busting right now, and our bust is costing us a position that three generations before us worked their asses off to get, all because members of that last generation and this generation have decided that they shouldn’t change.
But as I’ve said about conservatives in general and Neoconservatives in particular, they’d be happy with this country going to hell in a hand basket if that meant ‘libruls’ would go to hell with them.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:25 pmOK, I’ll take that as you saying, “no, I can’t answer a simple question.” Just as I thought.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:26 pmThey don’t give chemotherapy in emergency rooms.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:26 pmBecause he has no idea at all and has resorted to the usual vague “there’s a compromise in there somewhere†attempt to sound wise and intelligent (and flopping miserably).
And the fools like yourself just say “make us like England” while ignoring that trying to recreate their system here isn’t as easy as you like to make it sound.
My answer is that neither system is working perfectly and that human history has proven that just because there are only two choices now doesn’t mean a third and fourth and fifth choice can’t be intelligently created and implemented later.
Our system sucks because of the HMO’s inability to intelligently provide service, the British system sucks because nothing is ‘free’ and the only way to keep their system running is to increasingly tax.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:31 pmhalf-bull: “There is a compromise program out there, it just needs to be soundly created.”
Since you don’t have the balls to answer the simple question, let me help you out. At each of the Democratic presidential candidates’ websites, there are compromise programs, most of which are rather complicated. Edwards, for example would set up regional single-payers which people could choose over insurance based plans in their areas. It’s good old-fashioned competition. If the insurance based plan is preferrable to someone, they can take it. The only candidate with a simple solution is Kucinich – Medicare (single-payer) for all. If you’re honestly looking for compromise plans, maybe Hillary’s would suit you. Her’s sounds like what you’re looking for. Check it out.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmOK, I’ll take that as you saying, “no, I can’t answer a simple question.†Just as I thought.
And I’ll take as saying you can’t understand anything more complicated than “uhhh…”
November 9th, 2007 at 7:32 pmpbg: “They don’t give chemotherapy in emergency rooms.”
And they don’t provide insulin for diabetics either. Somebody should tell Delay.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:34 pmhalf-bull: “And I’ll take as saying you can’t understand anything more complicated than “uhhh…â€
Says the guy who claims that it’s easier to answer complex questions than simple questions.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:36 pmhalf-bull, if you’re looking for complex, multi-faceted programs which are a little hard to understand, I think Hillary is your candidate. I’m sure that someone like you, who doesn’t like simple answers and simple questions, would be completely put off by the various repubs’ “plans” which basically say “let the free market handle it.”
November 9th, 2007 at 7:38 pmJick: Since your intellect seemingly stopped advancing somewhere around five minutes after the swimmer entered the egg, I will have to say that if Hillary’s current plan is anything like her original plan as first-lady then we are in deep trouble.
That particular woman has stumbled and bumbled as of late, so I will choose to wait and see how often her position on the subject changes, though I do know that Hillary said she will institute a working healthcare plan “when I(she) am President again”. Again? Hmm.
If it incorporates Edwards idea of mandatory physical exams then you can cross me off the list, along with the rest of America.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:40 pmwould be completely put off by the various repubs’ “plans†which basically say “let the free market handle it.â€
At this point I would agree with you but since such plans haven’t reached a more mature stage of planning yet, along with monitoring the dems ideas I will just have to wait and see.
Know this, I am not voting for a pol based on their healthcare plan.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:44 pmWhen the first Hillary plan was proposed, only a minority of Americans wanted public health care, now a LARGE MAJORITY. If you weren’t such a stupid ignorant fool, you might know that!
The first Hillary plan also mandated nurses being arbitrarily assigned to hospitals which is why I said “IF” her current plan resembles the original.
You are really really having trouble keeping up, perhaps you should stop trying to understand and stick to playing spin the bottle with your old man.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:48 pmWell you’re a fool, do EVERYONE a favor, and NEVER VOTE YOU STUPID OLD COW!
Are you sure, you might want me to vote for a dem; the way things are going they will probably need it.
What is a Harvard Review?
Now get back to your old man, he needs a circle-jerk target.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:52 pmNow get back to your old man, he needs a circle-jerk target.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 7:52 pm
who writes you’re material?
this is ot but who’s gonna beat who into the slammer, bernie or tom?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:54 pm62% say they support a universal health care system “run by the government and financed by taxpayers†over the current system.
Sure, sure, a poll commissioned by Kucinich and taken from people who live in the basement of a transgender bath house in downtown San Fran.
Why did you vote against it, pray tell?
November 9th, 2007 at 7:55 pmI thought the NY Times really nailed it on the health care crisis.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:57 pmThe Exalted Galactic Emperor of the Seven Star Clusters writes my material.
Also known as Denny Kucinich.
Free UFO rides every tuesday on the lawn outside his office.
November 9th, 2007 at 7:58 pmBAHAHA, so the WashingtonPost is a Kucinich pawn? BHAHAHAHAHA
They must be, along with the rest of the galaxies denizens. Those Mind Probes can be lethal.
I said “mind” probes you gnat, don’t get excited.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:01 pmMuckdog, you can’t trust the author of that article.
For one he is affiliated with republicans which automatically make him a fascist pig and lying, warmongering scum.
Two, what the hell does a Harvard economics professor know about anything? Has he even done a single HARVARD REVIEW (ht: RoachBoy RHF) in his lifetime?
Three, the guy probably has an oil well in his backyard and a Cheney photo on his wall. Again, fascist nazi.
No, he must be written off as a blowhard and a lying pig before he clouds the issue with data that might give Pelosi a stomach ache.
Next.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:09 pmOk, you are back to caps so you must have gotten excited. I tried to warn you, don’t say I didn’t.
Get back to your boytoy and leave the debate to those who don’t call their dog “daddy”.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmGreat, now the completely medically covered British dad can head home to die because the govment decided his needed meds didn’t fit under the heading of “necessaryâ€.
Comment by Minotaur
You know loon Minotaur, he is going to die anyway. The article clearly stated that the drug could not cure him, it could only prolong his life for a certain amount of time. So, he dies a couple months before he would if he took the drug which costs in the US over $3,000 a month. Why don’t you aim your anger at the pharmaceutical company that charges that outrageous amount for the drug?
If the drug could actually save this guys life, I think you would have a point. But that is not what it would do. It would simply prolong his life by a few months. It sounds like the government in England thinks that the money would be better spent curing people than prolonging their lives. Either way, England still has a much better system than we do.
So you feel sorry for the people in this country who can’t get the drug because they don’t have any insurance at all. Or the people who can’t get the drug because its not on the list their HMO covers?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:12 pmrepublicans hate facts: Thanks for posting the link to kkf.org. I used some of that information for a post on my own blog.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:14 pmGet back to your boytoy and leave the debate to those who don’t call their dog “daddyâ€.
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 8:12 pm
daddy? debate?
what are you smoking, dude?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:16 pmFrom an article in the Harvard Review which did a study of the British NHS. Really, do you believe that everyone who opines on a blog just happens to know intimate details about such diverse topics as the British healthcare system, the Pakistani government or French civilian nuclear policy?
Comment by Minotaur
So prove it by linking to the article. I’m betting it either doesn’t exist or you are totally cherry picking details to fit your agenda.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:17 pm. . . and he will have a cell-mate who will give him a daily procto exam.
Comment by tom — November 9, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
minnie, you get a daily procto, what’s it like?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:18 pmYou know loon Minotaur, he is going to die anyway. The article clearly stated that the drug could not cure him, it could only prolong his life for a certain amount of time.
You know dildogaggins, that is easy to say when it isn’t your dad or child fading away. By that reasoning you could write off anyone with a terminal disease, regardless of how much time they have to live because they are going to die anyway. Why not spend the money on those who can definitely be saved? It was the British government who decided not to provide the drug, they could just as easily move farther out than that.
Yes I do feel sorry for those in our society who have the same sort of problems, I’m no fan of the current system as I have stated too many times already. Move on.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:21 pmahhhh…I see good old Tommy boy is back……Why isn’t this asshat in prison yet?..oh…okay… A little more time?….ok I can wait a little longer..But not much.For a criminal and a liar…and a treasonas MFr…..he still has the audacity to show his face to the nation.The funny thing is some people still like him….oh..yeah…..24%rs…or less.Just goes to show ya…money don’t fix stupid.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:24 pmminnie, you get a daily procto, what’s it like?
Comment by joe cantwell — November 9, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
So that was you peeking through the window.
Could you at least turn off the flash?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:25 pmDoes the old man make you gargle it, roachboy?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:27 pmI’ll jot that down as a “yes” just for form’s sake.
Ok, moving on:
Why does your old man require you to nibble?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:29 pmYIKES!!!…what did I just jump into……….I think I’ll just read for awhile
November 9th, 2007 at 8:30 pmYIKES!!!…what did I just jump into……….I think I’ll just read for awhile
Comment by mudsharks buddy — November 9, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
Lots of cat poop references. Karl Rove would be upset, I’m sure.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:33 pmok…medical treatment……i could be wrong about this but anyone can get medical treatment at any time…….as long as it’s an emergency….otherwise your screwed…..or…they’ll slap you with a huge …HUGE..med bill..now some hospitals and even fewer doctors will write off the visit(s)if your broke and the situation is terminal.If you’ve been paying into the system(the one Ron Paul wants to dismantle)you should be covered in the event of a serious illness(disabling or terminal)…..But this great nation can do better……alot better.And developing stem cell is one way to do that.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:37 pmI’m new here…but just so you know..I’m a librullll….and damn proud of it..and have been all my life…oh I’m 50
November 9th, 2007 at 8:41 pmThanks commander, its been fun but I have to finish this form and move on.
RoachBoy here has some entertainment value, usually as a low-rent freakshow at the county fair, but even I have limits as to how much of his tawdriness I can take.
Last question for roachboy: is that your sister?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:45 pmI’m new here…but just so you know..I’m a librullll….and damn proud of it..and have been all my life…oh I’m 50
Comment by mudsharks buddy — November 9, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
Good luck. You should know that, since trolls are inherently devoid of social skills, they have no real social lives and Friday nights they tend to get pumped up on Cheetos and Red Bull and pound the keyboards late into the night. It appears to be the high point of their week and things can get ugly.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmLOL….hey easy on the mud jokes okay…hahaha..LOL
November 9th, 2007 at 8:49 pmI’ll jot that down as a “yes†just for form’s sake.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:50 pmare you refering to me?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:55 pmI have a little expeirence with the dark side….but I wonder why you waste your energy on trolls…they’ll never get it.they don’t want too.they enjoy being wrong…….just look at the repug party…anyone who still backs their politics..well…….what’s that tell ya?
November 9th, 2007 at 8:58 pmseee what I mean…..they intentionally spin the topic..so they don’t have to address it
November 9th, 2007 at 9:00 pmgummitch..what do you mean they don’t have social skills?….they get together all the time….and burn crosses.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:10 pmI’ll still come back with a single fact. Those who most denounce a single payer government driven system are neither patients nor providers. In the present system, the insurers set both the levels of payment and reimbursment and collect the bulk of the payments. In 2006, insurance companies collected 37% of all medical expenses. 28% went to drug companies and the balance (35%) went to doctors. If the insurance companies were removed from the equation, medical expenses on a per person basis would be about equal to the rest of the world. That ignores the fact that a sixth of our population has no medical coverage at all.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:12 pmHow much more are you Health Care Cowboys willing to spend per month for universal health care? Another $1000 per month? Put a number on it.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmIf DeLay is to be believed, then why bother to pay for health care insurance? After all, he indicates that no one is denied health care in this country, which should be welcome news to the 45-50 million in the United States who are ininsured (and then there are the many underinsured, who also report problems with obtaining adequate healthcare–as featured in the movie Sicko).
So, will we see the kool-aid drinkers on the right discontinue their health care insurance policies en masse, taking him at his word? His supporters should demonstrate their faith in him by going without insurance.
Of course, should his faithful followers discover that matters aren’t quite that simple, they may become a bit disillusioned with him, and then the health care insurers may be just a little upset about the loss of premium revenue resulting from canceled policies. He must have so many friends these days that he can easily afford to lose a few.
Question for the trolls out there — How many of you are going to follow his lead and go without health care insurance?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 pmok Walt..but what about the hospitals?One of the obvious problems is the pharmacutical companies……while they do deserve to make a profit…they ought to take into consideration the country as a whole..old drugs need to be brought down so people can afford the medicine they need,especially seniors..and children.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:18 pmmuckdog……1000 a month?…thats close to what cobra charges….tell me…would you be willing to pay ..say…..40 dollars or 50 dollars a month for health care?..now….before you reply….you must take into consideration the population who would be contributing.200 million?…do the math.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:22 pmas for Delay……..just put that f****r in prison…..where he belongs..better yet…put him in prison spraying for bugs….lol
November 9th, 2007 at 9:29 pmCalifornia Medicine Man also has a great column up on the liberals’ manipulation of the uninsured health care numbers.
You guys should try taking a look at the truth sometime. It would be enlightening for you!
November 9th, 2007 at 9:29 pmminnie? minnie?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:33 pmmuckdog…you wouldn’t know the truth if you sniffed it in the A**….oh that’s right …your a dog….you do that anyway.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:34 pmLast question for roachboy: is that your sister?
Comment by Minotaur — November 9, 2007 @ 8:45 pm
no it’s yours. and ya know what? she says you’re a lousy lay.
g’night minnie.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:34 pmhey Joe…is that you…..this is mudshark..from C&L
November 9th, 2007 at 9:42 pmComment by muckdog — November 9, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
Muckdog ever time you have posted your ’subjective truth’ I follow the links to find out its not truth at all.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:43 pmcurmudgeon…it’s typical repug behavior……..it’s always about their money….nevermind whats best for the country…..they can’t help it..they pray at the alter of the almighty dollar.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:49 pmwhich has been taking a beating thanks to the repug admin…compliments of the Preznit.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:51 pmok…i’m done for now…nice meeting some of you folks…I’ll be back.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:59 pmThey’re laughing at you Hammer because you’re such a fool. You would be just a stupid joke if you hadn’t managed to wreak so much damage on America. Instead, you will go down in American history as a leading disgrace in a bunch of disgraceful Fox-Republicans.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:07 pmYou guys should try taking a look at the truth sometime. It would be enlightening for you!
Comment by muckdog — November 9, 2007 @ 9:29 pm
suckdog wouldn’t know the truth if it licked his balls. minotaur never anwswered a single question. what losers.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:19 pmsuckdog wouldn’t know the truth if it licked his balls. minotaur never anwswered a single question. what losers.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 9, 2007 @ 10:19 pm
suckdog’s a loser. minnie? well he’s got problems. let’s not be too harsh on minnie, ok?
November 9th, 2007 at 10:39 pmAll I can think of when I see Tom’s puss is
November 9th, 2007 at 10:41 pmSNIVELLING PUKE – thank you George Tatum.
Minotaur – a point of clarification England = English Scotland = Scottish They’re all British
November 10th, 2007 at 1:22 amAgain, just supplying evidence. You flat earthers can choose to read the links or not. Whether you’re capable of comprehending them, who knows. The lies and hypocrisy run deep for the Dimwitocrats.
But those links basically make you look like ‘tards.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:06 amThe mean spirited-hate filled troll at 1:43 am and 1:46 am snipes at “republicans hate facts.” This from a bottom-feeding troll who has lied on so many different TP threads, it is impossible not to find the Troll’s dung SOMEWHERE! And this troll is berating a progressive poster who has seen the serial troll for what it is?
It would be funny if the troll’s stinking dung had not distracted serious posters from the topic, which is:
The Hammer was laughed at by the UK audience because he was lying again about U.S. Health Care, and because, like the troll in question, he is a sleazy, criminal, racist, crook who LIES for a living, now that he is under indictment for his CRIMINAL activities in the job he has been thrown out of!
November 10th, 2007 at 2:28 amComment by muckdog — November 10, 2007 @ 2:06 am
Actually, if that link makes anyone look like ” ‘tard “, that’d be you.
The article you linked to is an opinion piece; the author provides no basis for his speculations other than his own opinion. Like this one:
I also doubt that bankruptcies due to the addition of a new family member or a death of a wage earner really constitute a medical bankruptcy in most peoples’ eyes.
How does he know what constitutes a medical bankruptcy in most people’s eyes? He won’t say.
Not to mention it’s an incredibly ignorant comment to make: Any parent will tell you the addition of a new family member (a birth) is an expensive proposition. Not only are there hospital bills to pay, the bill gets very large very quickly with even minor complications.
Same with a death in the family (whether a wage earner or not): Lots of people die only after a prolonged battle against an illness; which implies, yes, medical bills for their survivors.
The author’s contention that a birth or a death could not possibly be the cause of medical bankruptcy is jaw droppingly ignorant and divorced from reality.
If you want to see a flat earther, look in the mirror.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:44 amAnd of course the audience laughed at Delay and applauded the idea that the US health care system could be like the UK’s: Delay wanted to belittle the very system people in the UK are very much proud of.
It’s hard to imagine what in the world was going on in Delay’s mind when he said that. What a twit.
November 10th, 2007 at 2:47 amThe government caused the problem with health care in America by over socializing (mandates) medicine to the extent it is not completive, and we want to exacerbate the problem? Kids have health care. The needy already have health care. The U.S. is not a socialist state ( see http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl ). No one is entitled to be given a house, car, food or health care, etc. If we want these things, we have to earn them. The government does not earn money. Perhaps some of us should take a civics class and learn about America. We all have to labor for what we want. For those who need help there are the charities and state programs. We need to fix the health care issue but we cannot fix it unless we know how it is broken. For the answer, please see http://www.InteliOrg.com/
November 10th, 2007 at 10:06 amThis is why Delay should be in jail, because of TheLies. But it seems that it’s pointless to keep prosecuting republican criminals in this country. There is a PARDON waitng for all of them down the road in DC.
But those who protect the country at the borders will be put in jail for 11 or 12 years if they dare to mess with a drug dealer! My “gut feeling” is that this administration has an excellent relationship with the drug cartels, which may well be pouring money into the coffers…
November 10th, 2007 at 10:26 amDeLay: ‘No American Is Denied Health Care In America….. Look over there….. Spooooon!’
November 10th, 2007 at 12:33 pmAnd since when has Delay been a spokes man for America?
November 10th, 2007 at 2:52 pmhe’s still trying to save anything he can…he might aswell stand on a street corner with a big sign…saying” will lie for anything”cause after his trial…hehehehe…he’ll be done….so stick a fork in em and flip him over….for what he’s done to the country I hope he gets serious time.And a cell mate named…BD…Big>……
November 11th, 2007 at 12:53 amWhat I cannot understand is who paid DeLay to be there and make the speech in the first place.
The fact that everyone there knew he was only talking BS would indicate that is was not the usual corrupt toady payoff, like perhaps a speech at the Heritage Foundation where they would have been drinking the same koolade.
November 11th, 2007 at 12:03 pmSo far I have not been able to find any other sources for this story. It might help if I knew where in the UK he was speaking. Maybe it just hasn’t made it online yet. At any rate, DeLay’s brains were ruined by the insecticides he used before entering politics.
November 12th, 2007 at 3:27 pmMy wife and I were denied healththcare from the company that had been covering both of us for close to ten years, when she changed jobs and we had to re-apply after out COBRA ran out. At the time, she had a sprained ankle and I had a plantar wart on my foot. We were denied and told we could reapply when we had been symptom free for 6 months. I have the letter, I can prove it! AB 840 (universal single payer healthcare) has been passed twice by the California legislature. Twice, the “governator” who was raised in Austria with universal healthcare, has vetoed it. Can we dump the green washing hypocrite already?
November 12th, 2007 at 11:42 pmStevan Thomas
Candidate California AD15
ElectSteveThomas dot com
So, no American is denied health care, huh? That’s funny. I was diagnosed as having kidney cancer in October this year. I have had 4 doctors tell me I need to have the mass taken out of my kidney – a partial removal of the kidney – and 2 of these doctors feel that my liver lesions are a metastases from the kidney. I am being refused surgery, biopsies and any kind of treatment because I don’t have money to pay for medical services, no insurance and am not eligible for Medicaid. Our household income is only $1200 per month and we have no children in the home. As a result, I don’t qualify for any medical assistance at all. I was seen by one of the best facilities – Cleveland Clinic – but I can’t have surgery because I can’t put down an $8,000 deposit. Tom DeLay’s comments are almost as bad as Bush’s comment about all we have to do is just go to the emergency room for medical care. I am disgusted. I want to see a follow-up to Sicko that addresses the plight of the average American with no money, no insurance and no eligibility for Medicaid or Disability. Learn more about my fight with kidney cancer and American health care by visiting http://kristyraerichardson.blogspot.com
December 7th, 2007 at 1:18 pm