ThinkFast: November 9, 2007
ThinkFast: November 9, 2007
“Rudy Giuliani refused to say if he’d consider pardoning his old friend Bernie Kerik - who was indicted Thursday on federal corruption charges - if elected President.” “It wouldn’t be fair to ask that question at this point,” Giuliani said.
In a 53-40 vote last night, the Senate confirmed Judge Michael Mukasey as attorney general, despite criticism of his refusal to explicitly call waterboarding torture. Six Democrats voted for Mukasey.
Michael Hirsh writes in Newsweek, “Condoleezza Rice is, by her own admission, not ‘that self-reflective.’ But in an interview in her office on Thursday the secretary of state took a moment to contemplate the improved security situation in Iraq.” “I’m sure there are lots of things we might have done better,” she said.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress that the “economy was going to get worse before it got better, a message that received a chilly reception from both Wall Street and politicians.” He said the economy was about to “slow noticeably,” adding inflation was likely to “increase overall.”
“House leaders are pressing the Senate Democrats to force Republicans to stage more filibusters” when they use procedural maneuvers to block passage of bills. “That is the only way you can give Americans a clear view of who is obstructing change,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said.
Pakistani security officials barricaded former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto inside her home “behind barbed wire, concrete blocks and armored cars on Friday morning,” thwarting her planned protest rally. Bhutto’s party — the Pakistan Peoples Party — claims as many as 5,000 party workers had been arrested across the country over the last three days.
“An internal investigation into a fake news conference staged by the Federal Emergency Management Agency during last month’s California wildfires found that the agency’s press secretary directed aides to pose as reporters, secretly coached them during the briefing and ended the event after a final, scripted question was asked, according to a senior FEMA official.”
More than 100 Stanford University students demonstrated against Donald Rumsfeld’s appointment as a visiting fellow at the school’s Hoover Institution. “To date, nearly 4,000 Stanford faculty, students and alumni have signed a petition begun by a faculty member to reject Rumsfeld’s appointment.”
And finally: “One thing is for certain about the post-presidency of George W. Bush: ‘Under no circumstances’ will first lady Laura Bush spend her retirement years living at the much-ballyhooed Texas ranch that she and the president have been ‘escaping’ to for the past seven years.” The Washington Times reports that the Bush family will settle down in Dallas and visit the Crawford ranch for weekend getaways.
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How about this?
Chimpy plays the terror card yet again.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:03 amYou can bet your ass Rudy will give his pal a pardon. Kerik will sing like a canary otherwise.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:04 amGood luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:06 am
Oh c'mon -- how long does it take to ignore a subpoena?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:07 amI see that Repubs are still in lock-step(better make that goosestep) with their fuehrer in the Oval Office. EVERY Senator in their party voted FOR MuKasey. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:11 am"Rudy Giuliani refused to say if he’d consider pardoning his old friend Bernie Kerik - who was indicted Thursday on federal corruption charges - if elected President. 'It wouldn’t be fair to ask that question at this point,' Giuliani said."
Every time Rudy opens his mouth, he manages to put his foot in it. This should have been a no-brainer, but if Rudy had truly wanted to keep his options open and not answer the question, he should have said that Kerik hadn't been convicted of anything yet.
No matter -- as long as Giuliani continues to stand by Kerik, Americans will judge him by the company he keeps.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:12 amEveryone who voted for Mukasey should be publicly waterboarded.
http://www.tshirtinsurgency.com
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am“House leaders are pressing the Senate Democrats to force Republicans to stage more filibusters†when they use procedural maneuvers to block passage of bills. “That is the only way you can give Americans a clear view of who is obstructing change,†House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said.
kind of like voting to table a bill that takes precedent over everything.... impeachment?
losers.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 am“House leaders are pressing the Senate Democrats to force Republicans to stage more filibusters†when they use procedural maneuvers to block passage of bills. “That is the only way you can give Americans a clear view of who is obstructing change,†House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said.
Keep in mind, this is the same Hoyer who would not support the Cheney impeachment bill. Thanks, Steny, for not taking a stand on the worst & most dangerous, criminally insane VP ever.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:13 amGood luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€
Try 75% of his time, glad to see he wont be partisan and will investigate bushco.....
glad your coming around tcdon. im sure you are very tired of carrying the kool-aid.... although i still say your form earns you a perfect 10!
November 9th, 2007 at 9:15 amCongratulations to Judge Michael Mukasey and President Bush. Good luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:06 am
Curse those partisan Democrats. Curse them. It was all so much easier when the Republicans were in the majority and we all lived in bipartisan unity and perfection.
Perhaps these people wouldn't need to spend 25% of their time being investigated if they hadn't spent 95% of their time doing end runs around the Constitution the last six years.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:17 amWe need a list of those that were once again enabeler's and the one's not voting...
I wonder if Hoyer is in the same party as lieberman, seem's he is......Blessings
November 9th, 2007 at 9:19 amIt’s the Pelosi/Reed way. Investigate everything. Accomplish nothing.
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:18 am
i agree 100%
November 9th, 2007 at 9:19 amMichael Hirsh writes in Newsweek, “Condoleezza Rice is, by her own admission, not ‘that self-reflective.’
Self-destructive, perhaps? I guess Bush falls into this category, as well.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:20 amThe trouble is, they're destructive to our country, region & planet.
It’s the Pelosi/Reed way. Investigate everything. Accomplish nothing.
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Unfortunately, I have to agree as well.
Unless there are some teeth in these investigations, all the 'gotcha' moments in the world won't mean a thing.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:25 am"Six Democrats voted for Mukasey."
Six Democrats with the integrity and honesty to put their country before their party. Good for them.
(Still -- Only six out of the 51 senators who caucus with the Democrats? That's pretty pathetic)
November 9th, 2007 at 9:25 amChimpy plays the terror card yet again.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — November 9, 2007 @ 9:03 am
Good morning, TMM -- and happy Friday! I wonder if Americans, whenever Bush does his fearmongering thing, stop and think about certain realities.
Sure, it's possible that there could be a terrorist attack on a shopping mall during holiday shopping season. There would be a lot of people in one place, and that always makes a more attractive target than setting off a bomb in the middle of nowhere.
But -- "disrupt the economy"? Blowing up a shopping mall won't do that -- not even if it's the Mall of America. Blowing up TEN shopping malls won't do that. What it will do (besides obviously causing Americans to grieve again) will be to cause security to be beefed up at all major shopping centers, causing more people to do their Christmas shopping online when they object to going through X-ray screening at the mall. People WILL still buy stuff, and I'm sure the terrorists know that. After all, they're not deterred by skyrocketing gas prices or the dive-bombing dollar.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:26 amCongratulations to Judge Michael Mukasey and President Bush. Good luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:06 am
I'm sure when they uncover evidence of blow-jobs and semen stains you'll agree all the investigations were worth it.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:28 amKeep in mind, this is the same Hoyer who would not support the Cheney impeachment bill.
Comment by Zimzone — November 9, 2007 @ 9:13 am
Hoyer, along with the rest of the Dem leadership are guilty of violating their oaths of office and need to be removed in their next election.
Vote in the primaries against incumbents that are sh!theads ( Democrat and Republican ) , then in the finals, vote to oust the Repukes.
Remember, if your representative has rolled over for Bush to scratch his/her tummy, and you still vote for them, then you are the sh!thead.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:28 amIt’s the Pelosi/Reed way. Investigate everything. Accomplish nothing.
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:18 am
Yep, the dem leadership is useless and I suspect as corrupt as the Republicans as a whole are.
Wow, you posted something that is factually correct.
**faint**
November 9th, 2007 at 9:32 am"The Washington Times reports that the Bush family will settle down in Dallas and visit the Crawford ranch for weekend getaways."
Dallas, Paraguay?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:33 amCongratulations to Judge Michael Mukasey and President Bush. Good luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:06 am
... instead of having the 109th "rubber stamp congress" to screw up the country even further.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:37 am>the integrity and honesty to put their country before their party.
supporting legalized torture is putting america's interests first?
all torture should be illegal, if the torture truly saves american lives, no american jury of 12 people will unanimously agree he needs to go to jail, and in the unlikely event they do, a president of either party could easily get away with pardoning such a hero.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:37 am"Pakistani security officials barricaded former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto inside her home “behind barbed wire, concrete blocks and armored cars on Friday morning,†thwarting her planned protest rally. Bhutto’s party — the Pakistan Peoples Party — claims as many as 5,000 party workers had been arrested across the country over the last three days."
This is what generally happens when the party in power declares martial law -- put the opposition under house arrest and round up as many members of the opposition party as possible.
Could it happen here? There are a few people who believe that Bush/Cheney could possibly do such a thing -- all it would take would be one well-placed false flag event. Even so, I have my doubts that our military would be party to this. Hmmm...maybe Blackwater has the personnel available...
November 9th, 2007 at 9:39 am>in a difficult, partisan environment
which has nothing to do at all with swiftboating war veterans and makes up stories about their illegitimate black babies
>where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending >congressional “investigations.â€
yeah, uhm, you know, checks and balances is like, so lame, right, Tampon Don?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:40 amsome headlines from the googlenews:
Senate confirms Mukasey as attorney general
November 9th, 2007 at 9:41 amLos Angeles Times - 6 hours ago
Charles Dharapak / AP LOW SUPPORT: The margin of confirmation for Michael B. Mukasey was narrower than that for either Alberto R. Gonzales or John Ashcroft, President Bush’s previous attorneys general.
Mukasey confirmed with least support in 55 years Seattle Times
...
It’s the Pelosi/Reed way. Investigate everything. Accomplish nothing.
Comment by TCDon — November 9, 2007 @ 9:18 am
i agree 100%
Comment by Fan of Man
You forgot to say Seig Heil! FofM
November 9th, 2007 at 9:42 amgo ahnuld!
State sues feds over EPA delays on limiting vehicle emissions
November 9th, 2007 at 9:43 amSan Francisco Chronicle - 4 hours ago
California took its global-warming dispute with the Bush administration to court Thursday, demanding that the federal government act on a request filed nearly two years ago to let the state limit motor vehicle emissions of greenhouse gases.
California's Christmas List: Clean Air TIME
Gov. sues US over clean-air standard Los Angeles Timess
...
You forgot to say Seig Heil! FofM
Comment by Bobwurst — November 9, 2007 @ 9:42 am
Attacking regular posters instead of trolls again, sh!thead?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:43 am"Six Democrats with the integrity and honesty to put their country before their party. Good for them."
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Rubber-stamping another Bush stooge is putting country ahead of party? Just by waffling on whether or not waterboarding constitutes torture, Mukasey demonstrated that he has no personal principles and won't take a stand on anything unless it's cleared with the White House. The principled ones are the Senators who declared, "No! Enough!" -- even though they knew that Mukasey's confirmation failure would mean a crony "interim" appointment bypassing confirmation.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:44 am>Accomplish nothing.
Tampon Don, do you know if any republicans in congress made any recent comments about doing everything they can to prevent anything from getting done?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:44 am>Good for them.
Come on Exlexia, you can do better than that. Say something substantiative instead of this ham-handed, grotesquely self-congratualtory reach-around :)
November 9th, 2007 at 9:48 amLook out Brazil, the U.S. oil driven military has you in it's sights.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:49 amExley, is waterboarding torture? Let's hear your viewpoint.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:50 am“Six Democrats with the integrity and honesty to put their country before their party. Good for them.â€
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Exley, you have become such an idiot troll it is sickening.
You still support and administration that is taking a crap on the heads of the serving military, war wounded and veterans.
Bet you are sporting lots of made in China "Support the Troops" stickers on your vehicle too.....
November 9th, 2007 at 9:52 am“It wouldn’t be fair to ask that question at this point,†Giuliani said.
Of course it is fair. Guiliani just doesn't want to answer the question. My bets on he would pardon Kerik.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:53 amOr, could it be they are looking forward to President Hillary, with the all Inherent Powers of a War Time President, and the ability to waterboard her political opponents?!?
November 9th, 2007 at 9:53 amoh, and just in time to distract and confuse:
Officials: Mall threats 'uncorroborated'
November 9th, 2007 at 9:54 amUnited Press International - 36 minutes ago
CHICAGO, Nov. 9 (UPI) -- US and local law enforcement agencies are downplaying "uncorroborated" terrorist threats to malls in Chicago and Los Angeles.
Sorting a barrage of threats Baltimore Sun
LAPD chief downplays mall terror threat Los Angeles Daily News
...
the Senate confirmed Judge Michael Mukasey as attorney general,
And Mulkasey will take his oath to George Bush instead of the Constitution, just like Gonzales did.
So, why didn't any Democratic Senator filibuster this nomination? I am so ashamed of the Democrats. It makes me happy to know that I no longer belong to the party.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:55 amoh! NOW i read the comments... tripmaster @#1 covered the
November 9th, 2007 at 9:56 amholliday threat alert...
Pakistani security officials barricaded former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto inside her home “behind barbed wire, concrete blocks and armored cars on Friday morning,†thwarting her planned protest rally.
Bush must be creaming his pants in envy. That Musharuff sure knows how to shut down the opposition.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:57 am“I’m sure there are lots of things we might have done better,†she said.
And the first thing that comes to mind would be to not have invaded and occupied Iraq in the first place.
November 9th, 2007 at 9:58 am“That is the only way you can give Americans a clear view of who is obstructing change,†House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said.
Well, duh! Or, how about staging a filibuster themselves like they should have filibustered Mulkasey.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:00 amWelcome to another freaky Friday in bull shit bush bizarro world....May I suggest we all cancel spending this holiday season...It would be more insightful to save every dollar possible....From the look's of thing's we may join the rank's of 3rd world countries in the past that needed a wheel barell full of money for a loaf of bread...Home land security won't tell you but I will, another good idea along with stock piling food, petro, water and ammo you may want to invest in tent or tarp material to stay dry after our gov take's your home's through forclosure......Learn to eat wild plant's...Just a little advice.......Bessings
November 9th, 2007 at 10:00 amThe FBI is warning that al Qaeda may be preparing a series of holiday attacks on U.S. shopping malls in Los Angeles and Chicago, according to an intelligence report distributed to law enforcement authorities across the country this morning.
Wow, Rani Rhodes must be psychic. She predicted yesterday that we would start hearing terror alerts for our shopping malls soon. She said that that's when she knows it's time to start shopping for holiday treats.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:02 amIt’s the Pelosi/Reed way. Investigate everything. Accomplish nothing.
Comment by TCDon
It's the Bush Crime Family way, obstruct justice at every turn. Call EP on anything and everything. Order sycophants to ignore subpoenas. Refuse to turn over documents.
So Donnie, if Bush has done nothing wrong and has nothing to hide, why is he hiding everything and refusing to cooperate in investigations?
November 9th, 2007 at 10:06 am(Still — Only six out of the 51 senators who caucus with the Democrats? That’s pretty pathetic)
Comment by Exley
You are right, it is pathetic that the Democrats are not like the Republicans, marching in lock-step to what their leaders tell them to do.
Even thought I am furious with those Democrats for voting for a man who said that the President doesn't have to follow the law and that torture is OK, but I would still rather see them be thinking adults who vote according to their beliefs not according to what their leaders tell them to do.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:09 amMay I suggest we all cancel spending this holiday season…It would be more insightful to save every dollar possible…
Comment by Witch1 — November 9, 2007 @ 10:00 am
Hey, I'm in favor of that -- people on my Christmas list are mostly drowning in stuff they don't need, anyway. But I'm not so sure that dollars are worth saving these days.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:11 amExlax & Totally CluelessDon; How about you guys get waterboarded and then give us a first-hand report if it was torture or not?
November 9th, 2007 at 10:11 amVote in the primaries against incumbents that are sh!theads ( Democrat and Republican ) , then in the finals, vote to oust the Repukes.
Unfortunately most of the incumbent Democrats don't have anyone running against them. It's way too expensive and history has shown that an incumbent wins 9 times out of 10 so there aren't that many people willing to spend enormous sums of money for nothing.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:12 amdid any of you hear the ed schultz "interview" yesterday:
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-FL, joined the 3rd hour of Thursday's show to discuss her opposition to impeachment of Dick Cheney.
too bad ed charges $ for his pod casts...
i thought he was gonna crawl through the wires to choke some sense into that woman... he was pissed... but kept his cool, relatively, and tried to understand her position... i wish i had a better memory...
but he caught her in a couple of traps... basically, the idea is to win in 08... he tried to make her understand that the people WANT the dems to fight for the CONSTITUTION... to get cheeeney out of office to PREVENT another war... just to DO THE RIGHT THING...
she stood her ground though... whining about how the press would be all over the proceedings (YES!)... and they had so much work to do...
he told her several times, that bush would veto and otherwise prevent anything from being done in this next year anyway...
i thought he was going to lose it with her... but he didn't...
though his exasperation was very clear...
...
fyi - call conyers office and tell him you want IMPEACHMENT...
November 9th, 2007 at 10:12 amhe is conducting a poll...
...
She predicted yesterday that we would start hearing terror alerts for our shopping malls soon. She said that that’s when she knows it’s time to start shopping for holiday treats.
Comment by bilbobaggins
Or maybe she works for them... let the waterboarding begins!!
November 9th, 2007 at 10:14 am> But I’m not so sure that dollars are worth saving these days.
Euros, the perfect stocking stuffer!
November 9th, 2007 at 10:15 amSo, Exley, no response to my earlier question?
How very like Mukasey. No wonder you admire the man so.
I remember when Exley would actually engage in arguments about various topics. It looks like he's finally comprehended the basic indefensibility of this administration's actions, and has resigned himself to the role of a hit-n-run troll. Sad, really...
November 9th, 2007 at 10:16 amBut I’m not so sure that dollars are worth saving these days.
Comment by missmolly — November 9, 2007 @ 10:11 am
Sure they are! They'll be a collector's item in 40 to 50 years, when they are replaced by the Euro (or the Americo, or whatever currency has replaced the dollar by then)
November 9th, 2007 at 10:18 amBen Benanke the Fed. Chief thinks" economy is going to get worse before it got better".
Worse than now !!!
when:
We have the worst deficit in history 9.8 trillion dollars
Worst time for dollar vs. other currencies
Record oil prices..$97.00 a barrel.
44% of people without health insurance.
Onr out of 4 homeless is a veteran.
Nations are switiching to other currencies escaping the dollar fall.
If it is going to be worst than the above, then Ben Bernanke should learn some magic to turn things around.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:19 amComment by TripMaster Monkey — November 9, 2007 @ 10:16 am
So true. Exley used to be someone that would be willing to discuss opposing views.
I would also like to read his opinion on waterboarding and whether this administration has the legal authority to perform waterboarding in the name of the USA.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:20 amGiuliani and Kerik became best friends over the course of ten years. Giuliani is Godfather to Kerik's two youngest daughters (from Kerik's third marriage, by the way). Kerik was best man at Giuliani's wedding to Judi. Giuliani promoted Kerik to head of Corrections and Police Commissioner. Giuliani and Kerik became business partners in both Giuliani Partners and Giuliani-Kerik LLP. Giuliani vouched for Kerik as Interim Interior Minister in Iraq (Kerik quit after 4 months) and as nominee for director of Homeland Security (withdrawn after it was discovered Kerik had an "illegal nanny").
November 9th, 2007 at 10:26 amBack at ya Missmolly, I think other's suggesting the euro is a good one, also small amount's of gold, silver and coin's....The paper dollar is not worth a lot now and falling daily....Try and put a good amount in a small safe, the bank's are not the best bet..Just my thinking...Blessings
November 9th, 2007 at 10:27 amSadly for Chuck Schumer and the American people, Congress in 2005 already passed a law express forbidding waterboarding and other interrogation techniques amounting to torture. And President Bush already issued a signing statement declaring he would ignore it.
For the details, see:
November 9th, 2007 at 10:31 am"Waterboarding the Constitution: Mukasey and Bush's 2005 Signing Statement."
Correction - Kerik wasn't Giuliani's best man. Giuliani's son Andrew was (the son who no longer speaks with Giuliani over the way Giuliani mistreated his mother Donna Hanover).
November 9th, 2007 at 10:32 amLuis M sez:
Actually, the name of the currency is the Amero, and a collapse of the dollar in America will be the perfect opportunity to introduce it. We won't have to wait 40-50 years.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:33 amSo true. Exley used to be someone that would be willing to discuss opposing views.
Ah Exley is just still reeling over the Mets collapse. Perhaps he can't take the combo of the Mets collapse and Bush's Neocon collapse!
November 9th, 2007 at 10:33 amI’m sure when they uncover evidence of blow-jobs and semen stains you’ll agree all the investigations were worth it.
Comment by Dumb_Fox — November 9, 2007 @ 9:28 am
Are they investigating **cough..** Mark Foley? Jeff Gannon? Larry Craig?
Pray tell, who???
November 9th, 2007 at 10:40 amDon, Ex--trying to get a rise out of us by insulting the Dem congressional leadership will do you know good. We're equally disgusted with them. For diametrically opposite reasons, but equally.
Unless you want the weird thrill of having us agree with you. Then go ahead.
November 9th, 2007 at 10:52 am“Rudy Giuliani refused to say if he’d consider pardoning his old friend Bernie Kerik - who was indicted Thursday on federal corruption charges - if elected President.†“It wouldn’t be fair to ask that question at this point,†Giuliani said.
======================
What about the child rapist Giuliani hangs around with? Will he pardon him?
November 9th, 2007 at 11:02 amThink about that, folks.
What Democrat's candidacy could ever survive if that candidate was found out to be close friends with a child rapist AFTER the child rapist had been exposed for who he is?
None!
But IOKIYAR!
NO. HE. DID. NOT. JUST. SAY. THAT....
I am not at all certain that the Dem leadership even has the capacity to understand what has happened this week in the minds of many of their constituents.
Between their having their asses procedurally handed to them and the near media blackout of the entire impeachment issue, people are PISSED. Not that they weren't pissed last week too. This is a new pissed. The kind of pissed that people quietly never forget...
November 9th, 2007 at 11:18 am#69 FearandSmear, " This is a new pissed. The kind of pissed that people quietly never forget".....Exactly....2 thing's people have a hard time getting over, 1 grief.....2 betrayel.....Our country is faced with both, big time and we will not forget......Blessings
November 9th, 2007 at 11:28 amSkipping down to the bottom so haven't read the other comments yet. But bad enough that 6 Dems voted for him. Look who DIDN"T vote..On the Dem side: Biden, Clinton, Dodd and Obama. And McCain on the Republican side. If I'd ever thought about supporting one of these four Dems in the primaries (or the General), I sure as heck won't now. Such cowardice!! And as for McCain, a person who WAS tortured as a POW in Vietnam, not to only not vote, but not vote NO is truly beyond the pale. Pathetic beyond words.
Not Voting - 7
November 9th, 2007 at 11:31 amAlexander (R-TN)
Biden (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Dodd (D-CT)
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)
Why did those seven Senators not vote? On a question as important as this we need more than strong words, we need real leadership. None of the sitting Senators running for Pres could find the time to get back to vote. What says that they will find the time to do the job once they may be in office, whoever among them may win? "No" votes by the four and the six traitors would have forced a tie-break vote by cheney if the non-voting rethugs had voted.
November 9th, 2007 at 11:41 amThat is the only way you can give Americans a clear view of who is obstructing change,†House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) said.
This from the man who led the charge to table the impeachment of DIck Cheney , a very small first step in taking fascism's boot from the neck of the American people ,whose approval of the bush administration is lower than Nixon's before his impeachment and stepping down .
November 9th, 2007 at 11:57 amCompared to Bush and Cheney, Nixon looks like a choir boy !Are there no patriots among our over-privileged and out of touch royalty?
“Six Democrats voted for Mukasey.â€
Six Democrats with the integrity and honesty to put their country before their party. Good for them.
(Still — Only six out of the 51 senators who caucus with the Democrats? That’s pretty pathetic)
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Put their "country before their party?" Which country? The one that allows the President to disobey the law? The one that allows the President to annull the Fourth Amendment? The one that has a Constitution in shreds? The one that tortures people? The one that locks people up with no redress, including American citizens? Are you really so blind that you can't see this is no longer the country we thought it was?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:00 pm...difficult, partisan environment -TCDawn
Thats what Rove and George both wanted and now your crying about it?
You do realize the "Uniter not a divider" was complete bovine plop, right?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:17 pmHere's something I haven't seen here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/08/world/middleeast/08ministry.html
November 9th, 2007 at 12:18 pmIt seem's to me we have become a military enabeler for another country....Perhap's this sign should be at every border..Welcome to the enabeling state of Israel, financed by China and big oil.....Blessings
November 9th, 2007 at 12:20 pmActually, the name of the currency is the Amero, and a collapse of the dollar in America will be the perfect opportunity to introduce it. We won’t have to wait 40-50 years.
Comment by TripMaster Monkey — November 9, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Dibs on having our eagle on the bills! Or we could have a bald eagle and a golden eagle (holding a snake) flying over a maple leaf.
Or something.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:20 pm"Good luck doing your job in a difficult, partisan environment where 25% of your time will be spent preparing for and attending congressional “investigations.â€"
All I can say regarding Don, Exley, Fan of man, etc. is UNFRICKINGBELIEVABLE!
In the 90's, a repub congress investigated:
The firing of two travel office employees.
A 20-year old land deal for years after the RTC determined no wrongdoing.
Two file boxes mistakenly put in a closet instead of a storage locker across the street.
Whether or not a president lied about a sexual affair.
Whether or not a president used his Christmas mailing list for political purposes.
Who stayed over night at the whitehouse.
Whether or not the First Lady had someone murdered.
Whether or not there had been "pornographic christmas tree ornaments" placed on the Whitehouse tree.
The duplicity and hypocricy of these trolls is simply astounding.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:27 pmOf course it is fair. Guiliani just doesn’t want to answer the question. My bets on he would pardon Kerik.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 9, 2007 @ 9:53 am
By refusing to answer, he essentially answered "yes." And we all know it.
November 9th, 2007 at 12:35 pmI posed a link to the roll call on the Mukasey nomination vote, here. Note that five presidential candidates, Clinton, McCain and Obama included, failed to vote. How's that for standing up for American values?
November 9th, 2007 at 12:41 pm“economy was going to get worse before it gets better", how much has the GW666 polices affected inflation so far....34% in 7 years, and it is going to get worse, we are sooooo screwed by this Fascist Fool.
Now for something really stupid -
"ANY comment by TCDonkeyass"
Buck Fush
November 9th, 2007 at 1:09 pm#64 Nature Rules...
"Ah Exley is just still reeling over the Mets collapse."
Absolutely....That is a pain that does not go away.
November 9th, 2007 at 1:24 pmTripMaster Monkey, (#35, 55):
Here is what I wrote in response to the same question when it was asked by Nanlichi on Oct. 31:
'Nanlichi,
My honest answer is, “I don’t know.†It is certainly unpleasant. I have seen it demonstrated on a reporter doing a story on it. He described it as frightening and unnerving, but just moments after it was over, he was physically fine. So, at first glance it doesn’t appear to be torture as I have understood it in the past….
However, having said that, McCain’s POW experience and Graham’s experience as a military lawyer lends great credence to their assertion that it is a form of torture and is very persuasive to me.
Legally, it does not appear (to my knowledge) to be specifically barred as an interrogation techique under U.S. law. That is why I said, if Congress wants to legally define waterboarding as torture, they are free to do so.
At this point, it seems the public relations hit we take to our status in the world for not coming right out and saying waterboarding is torture and we do not engage in it is not worth whatever information we may get from a terrorist who may have been waterboarded.
So, that is a very long-winded way of saying, “I’m not sure.†As I said, it is undoubtedly frightening, unnerving and unpleasant. Does it cross the line, however, into torture. I am really not sure (But that admittedly appears to be a minority opinion under some international (and U.S. Army) guidelines).'
Comment by Exley — October 31, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
November 9th, 2007 at 1:43 pmSo, that is a very long-winded way of saying, “I’m not sure.†As I said, it is undoubtedly frightening, unnerving and unpleasant. Does it cross the line, however, into torture. I am really not sure (But that admittedly appears to be a minority opinion under some international (and U.S. Army) guidelines).’
Comment by Exley — October 31, 2007 @ 12:18 pm
So you believe our prosecution of Nazis for using this technique was WRONG? Wow, you really are a fascist little pig!
Let me help you out you little sh!!!tball, with the DEFINITION OF TORTURE!
Main Entry:
tor·ture
1 a: anguish of body or mind
PHYSICALLY FINE doesn't mean a person isn't tortured you ignorant little slvt!
November 9th, 2007 at 2:25 pmExley, again, we have executed and sent people to life in prison for using this proceedure. We have courtmarshaled and jailed our own military officers for it in 1902 and the early 70's.... and you're not sure it's torture???!!! If it's not torture, why did we execute Sgt. Major Shinsako Yuki for it in 1946?
Nice try at obfuscation though. You're pretty good at it.
November 9th, 2007 at 2:26 pmStill waiting for a simple answer, Exley. If it’s not torture, why did we execute Sgt. Major Shinsako Yuki for it in 1946?
November 9th, 2007 at 2:39 pmExley
November 9th, 2007 at 2:48 pmyou do an admirable job of legalese while failing , as usual ,to show any of the basic limitations ,imposed on human behavior by ethics and morality !
Ret. Col.
Perhaps we shouldn't have. Was this Japanese soldier convicted of anything else? Did he employ any other forms of "torture?" Did he wrongfully execute people? Did he employ waterboarding against enemy soldiers or unlawful combatants (There is a legal distinction).
Besides a penalty carried out in 1946 should not dictate what actions are taken in 2007....Stealing used to be punishable by death. We don't execute people for theft anymore.
I cannot find any information on the Sgt. Major Shinsako Yuki case using "the Google." If you have any additional information about the case you can pass along, I'd appreciate it. You imply he was executed soley for waterboarding. Can you verify that?
November 9th, 2007 at 2:50 pmRon Paul grills Bernanke on the Value of the Dollar
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=3839318&page=1
November 9th, 2007 at 2:54 pmExley, here's an article by Joe Conason on the subject: http://salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/10/26/giuliani_and_torture/
November 9th, 2007 at 2:57 pm#91
Thank you, "Ret Col."...I will take a look at that. I don't really trust Conason to give an accurate accounting, but there are some links in his article that appear to be credible.
November 9th, 2007 at 3:00 pmHey exley ,
November 9th, 2007 at 3:04 pmit was perfectly legal to push jews into ovens too ! Would you extend the same ,"I'm not sure", proposition to nazi concentration camps .Will it take a court decision to clarify for you your moral incertitude ?
Freeman,
It was never legal in the United States to "push Jews into ovens."
Moreover, you don't see a distinction between murdering millions of innocents and thye non-lethal pouring water on a cloth placed over a terrorist's face in an effort to gather information?
It's an inapposite comparison.
November 9th, 2007 at 3:10 pmYou don't know if drowning people and reviving them is Torture ? You need a lawyer to clarify that for you exley ? Got principles ?
November 9th, 2007 at 3:18 pmIf it was legal in the US you wouldn't have any problems with it would you ?
November 9th, 2007 at 3:19 pmCome out of the fog brother , morality isn't that large a gray area for most civilized people !
November 9th, 2007 at 3:21 pmExley, you are defending a signing statement. The law against waterboarding exists. Bush decided to bypass the McCain amendment.
It is illegal. It was put into law by the people we elected. Bush is ignoring it with one of his many signing statements.
You are standing behind a man that isn't standing for the constitution.
November 9th, 2007 at 3:22 pmEver read the sermon on the mount ? If you become evil inorder to resist evil ,you become what you despise ,EVIL !
November 9th, 2007 at 3:24 pmFreeman,
It was never legal in the United States to “push Jews into ovens.â€
Moreover, you don’t see a distinction between murdering millions of innocents and thye non-lethal pouring water on a cloth placed over a terrorist’s face in an effort to gather information?
It’s an inapposite comparison.
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 3:10 pm
So you believe we should adopt the torture of the Nazis, but we're nothing like the Nazis unless we adopt ALL of their evil behavior?
You're a f**king insane little pr!!!ck!
November 9th, 2007 at 3:39 pmRepublicans and Exley, ever moving the bar towards Nazi-ism, while justifying with the same lame excuses the Nazis used! You're a disgrace to all jews, you stupid little fool, Exley!
November 9th, 2007 at 3:40 pmFacts
November 9th, 2007 at 3:57 pmExleys looking to the lawyers for moral guidance , poor lost soul.
Hellinabucket,
Actually, the McCain amendment applies only to interrogations carried out by the Department of Defense. It therefore does not apply to the Central Intelligence Agency, for example.
There is no statute that specifically and explicitly prohibits the use of "waterboarding" by civilain intelligence personnel against unlawful enemy combatants.
Congress is certainly free to pass such legislation. As of yet, however, Congress has chosen not to do so.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:07 pmSenator Specter Exposed As Bush Stooge!
9th of November 2007
by Jay Randal
"He {Mukasey} felt that he could not make that pronouncement without placing people at risk to be sued or perhaps even criminally prosecuted." (Senator Arlen Specter on Why Mukasey could not publicly acknowledge waterboarding as torture.)
If Senator Specter was still prosecutor/attorney, then this admission would be grounds for disbarment from practicing law and removal from being a prosecutor.
Arlen as a member of the Senate forgets to remember that his position is NOT to immunize a President from prosecution for authorizing illegal waterboard torture.
The torturers themselves are in legal jeopardy, if they knew waterboarding is torture and willingly did it, so Specter has NO right to shield them from prosecution.
Arlen has shamed the Senate Judiciary Committee, by his wanton disregard for Geneva Conventions accord banning waterboarding and all other forms of torture, so Pennsylvania citizens can demand his resignation.
(Jay Randal, political activist and writer in Georgia, USA.)
November 9th, 2007 at 4:11 pmTorture ,All legal and tidy ,huh . Like the deaths of 3/4 of a million people in Iraq ,Domestic spying without oversight ,signing statements or the loss of habeas corpus for American citizens .
November 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pmAs I suspected, Sgt. Maj. Chinsaku Yuki was not executed merely for engaging in waterboarding. He was also charged with having engaged, over a sustained period of time, in “beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; … burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward.â€
The case hardly stands for the proposition that isolated instances of waterboarding would be torture.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:18 pmExley > according to the Geneva Conventions, that US is a signatory to, waterboarding is banned as torture. The US government ratified the Geneva protocols into law, so stop defending the procedure as possibly not torture.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:27 pmExley
November 9th, 2007 at 4:28 pmdoes the phrase "certain inalienable rights" ring any bells with you ?
Exley, you are mistaken. Here's the detainee act of 2005
http://www.pegc.us/detainee_act_2005.html
Please read below.
(a) In General- No person in the custody or under the effective control of the Department of Defense or under detention in a Department of Defense facility shall be subject to any treatment or technique of interrogation not authorized by and listed in the United States Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation.
It clearly states that no person at any DOD facility will be subjected. That includes Gitmo.
Bush's signing statement is circumventing the law. Do you support this?
November 9th, 2007 at 4:30 pmTo date I believe exley has defended torture ,domestic spying ,trolling thru the personal info of millions of American citizens ,signing statements ,the CIA's toppling of democratic governments,assaination as a political tool and a war based on fake intelligence against a sovereign nation which had NO part in 911.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:36 pmHe always presents about the best possible legal arguments for the least savory acts of the Bush admin.
In short an apologist for the morally repugnant .
HiB,
The signing statement is not a circumvention of the law. It is a statement explaining the president's interpretation of the legislation Congress has placed before him. Legislation often carries with it ambiguous terms that are subject to interpretation. The signing statements are merely communications about how the president interprets the statute.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pmBut hey if I'm wrong just step up to the plate , I'd be overjoyed to discover you don't support ALL of the above .
November 9th, 2007 at 4:40 pmActually, Freeman, I have never defended torture. Torture is illegal under U.S. and international law and is morally repugnant.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pmYes exley
November 9th, 2007 at 4:42 pmand through the use of signing statements ,according to the GAO bush has instructed the federal government to ignore 1/3 of ALL laws past by the peoples elected representatives since 911.
Splitting hairs is whats best about your lawyer speak . Waterboarding is torture under our international treaties and obligtions .
November 9th, 2007 at 4:44 pmBut more importantly , it is morally repugnant . Your defence of it and the rest of the above shows what and who you are .
November 9th, 2007 at 4:47 pmThe signing statements are merely communications about how the president interprets the statute.
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 4:40 pm
Since we are both aware that bush ,the president with the least vetoes of any in our nations history,has never used signing statements in this fashion,it's obvious you are willing to be disingenuos in your support of Fascism.
November 9th, 2007 at 4:51 pmIf you aren't a lawyer ,you should be .Your actions and words are obviously not hampered by morals !
November 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmPredictions of the next 911 by a Professional Geologist.
http://www.H2onE2.com Glacial Respiration, Conceptual Ring of Ice, The End of Linear Western Religion
A Geological Exploration of an E2 Earthen Planet And the H2 Human Species
Author: B Billy Marse, Professional Geologist
Brief Description:
http://www.H2onE2.com is an exploration of the universe, geology, climate, biology, humans, psychology, folklore and ancient structures to uncover the beginning and disclose the end of linear western religion. The true DaVinci Code behind the bible is not a supreme spiritual power but a scientific record of climate change described as Glacial Respiration. The Greek philosophers originated the practice of communicating a hidden idea or message in the short story format, as a metaphor. In the bible, metaphors conceal historic climate change within the fanciful stories. The theory of Glacial Respiration explains the myth behind the Holy Grail, structures such as the Great Pyramids, Stonehenge, Easter Island and is the knowledge that was collected in the Jewish Ark of the Covenant.
The environmental changes of Glacial Respiration determine all biological evolution and can explain why higher forms of intelligent humans developed. Further, Glacial Respiration releases the secret hidden by the Knights Templars, Masonic Order and all religions. Uncovers an advanced Blue-Blooded semi-industrial Atlantian Civilization that was built and destroyed many times over for the last million years. The book ends with an explanation of how linear western religion will be physically ended and describes the construction of the doomsday device capable of fulfilling its own self defining prophesy, “Revelationsâ€. H2onE2 is a mind-expanding experience that stimulates the soul, instinct, intellect and is an almanac to the past, present and future of humanity. Rise, awaken and evolve into H3 human consciousness.
The discovery:
November 9th, 2007 at 4:52 pmAs a Professional Geologist, I attempted to link the Dust Bowl/Great Depression to a pre-glacial condition or mechanism and ended up writing the book H2onE2. I felt that there was a strong connection between the Dust Bowl and transition back into Glacial Winter. I did notice that my professors scientifically crumbled every time I mentioned the relationship. I could not go back in time or locate indisputable proof. The proof came from understanding all educational disciplines including history and theology. I soon discovered that all religious text both eastern and western continually described significant climate change conditions relating to Glacial Respiration. For years I fought off mixing science and religion until I discovered that the origins of all religions were founded or created to help humans psychologically survive the harsh earthen environment. Without reason I soon accepted that the world's complicated religions were the same. This came true and I continued to write and discover. Everything came into place as though I was unlocking a 10,000-year-old puzzle. I also realized this puzzle was opened before I discovered it, by someone else, some other group. If so, further understanding of this knowledge might be extracted from significant historical events. Lastly, this is the vital information needed to make future predictions.
ui5i5
The proposition :
November 9th, 2007 at 4:58 pmexley has defended torture ,domestic spying ,trolling thru the personal info of millions of American citizens ,signing statements ,the CIA’s toppling of democratic governments,assaination as a political tool and a war based on fake intelligence against a sovereign nation which had NO part in 911.
The reply:
Actually, Freeman, I have never defended torture.
Of course Exley isn't sure if drowning and reviving someone repeatedly is torture.
I REST MY CASE .
"Waterboarding is torture under our international treaties and obligtions."
Freeman, That is not clear by any means. Article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights provides "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
Waterboarding is not specifically banned.
The UN Convention Against Torture also does not specifically mention waterboarding.
Article 1
1. Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
Moreover, 18 USC Sec. 2340, which legally defines 'torture' does not reference waterboarding.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:02 pmExley,
''The whole point of the McCain Amendment was to close every loophole," said Marty Lederman, a Georgetown University law professor who served in the Justice Department from 1997 to 2002. ''The president has re-opened the loophole by asserting the constitutional authority to act in violation of the statute where it would assist in the war on terrorism."
Elisa Massimino, Washington director for Human Rights Watch, called Bush's signing statement an ''in-your-face affront" to both McCain and to Congress.
''The basic civics lesson that there are three co-equal branches of government that provide checks and balances on each other is being fundamentally rejected by this executive branch," she said.
''Congress is trying to flex its muscle to provide those checks [on detainee abuse], and it's being told through the signing statement that it's impotent. It's quite a radical view."
Congress added that amendment and Bush circumvented it with a signing statement. pure and simple.
Do you support this?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:03 pmFreeman,
"Exley isn’t sure if drowning and reviving someone repeatedly is torture."
Waterboarding is not drowning somone. It is an interrogation technique that simulates drowning.
Now, if waterboarding is done "repeatedly" as you say, then that is indeed likely to be considered torture under U.S. law for repeated waterboarding would probably cause "prolonged mental harm," which is considered torture under U.S. law (18 USC 2340)
November 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pmExley: "As I suspected, Sgt. Maj. Chinsaku Yuki was not executed merely for engaging in waterboarding. He was also charged with having engaged, over a sustained period of time, in “beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; … burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward.â€
Exley, we just say in the news last week that our treatment of prisoners included beating about the head, stress positions and kicking, so I'm not sure you're on very firm ground here. What interests me is your motivation. Why would you or anyone argue that it's ok to torture people? What do you gain by taking a position in favor of these techniques. What is your agenda in this regard? It seems kind of crazy, so I wonder if you have reasons why you so frequently and aggressively argue that Americans should be allowed to torture without paying the consequences that others have for these crimes.
November 9th, 2007 at 5:11 pmX
November 9th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWhich came first according to the people who set up our laws and our government ,certain inalienable rights or the writing down on paper a law to enunciate those rights .
As I have said in the past ,you do a remarkable job of defending the morally reprehensible .Are you sure this is the best way to exploit your talents?
Exley, and as far as Conason is concerned, can you point to even one thing he's EVER written which was inaccurate? You even allow that he offered good links to support his article. Can you give ANY example of Joe Conason being anything other than completely honest and well researched?
November 9th, 2007 at 5:12 pm#124
Ret. Col.
Obviously, beating a prisoner about the head and prolonged stress positions are torture. I do not deny that. It is ilegal and those who do it should be punished.
And I am not defending torture. I am raising the question of whether waterboarding is legally torture and therefore banned by U.S. and international law.
I have to go now, but hope we can pick up this conversation again.
Have a pleasant weekend all
November 9th, 2007 at 5:17 pmPeace man
November 9th, 2007 at 5:19 pmSome of you seem very confused about inflation. Here is the link to the BLS website. You can research the CPI there.
http://bls.gov
As you'll see, despite the rhetoric by some in the Fed and the media, year over year inflation is quite mild.
But yes, the economy is slowing. Not a recession, but definitely below trend. The Fed kept interest rates too high for too long. They always mess things up. That and higher energy prices have kept GDP below trend for awhile now. Even Barney Frank railed on Bernanke in recent months about this. Barney got that one right.
Higher energy prices are not inflationary. If it were so, we'd see much higher CPI and PPI, and PCE. Which we don't. Oil has gone from the mid-teens to the mid-nineties, and the CPI and PCE are barely above the flat line.
The core rate is lower. So higher energy prices haven't influenced other goods and services in the economy. Despite the gloom and doom in the media. They're wrong.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:09 pmHigher energy prices are not inflationary. Comment by muckdog — November 9, 2007 @ 8:09 pm
Sure the are, you retarded git! It's called cost-push inflation!
You really shouldn't PRETEND you know more than the Fed, when it's obvious YOU KNOW NOTHING of economics you retarded little stupid hack!
November 10th, 2007 at 3:50 amAnd I am not defending torture. I am raising the question of whether waterboarding is legally torture and therefore banned by U.S. and international law.
I have to go now, but hope we can pick up this conversation again.
Have a pleasant weekend all
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 5:17 pm
And you a RETARDED FOOL would be STUPID ENOUGH to NEED to raise that question! That WOULD BE YOU EXLAX - A RETARDED FOOL!!!
I already supplied you with the DEFINITION of TORTURE! Just because you're TOO ILLITERATE AND STUPID to read, don't blame us you little NAZI HACK EMBARRASSMENT TO ALL OF JUDAISM!
November 10th, 2007 at 3:51 am“No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.â€
Waterboarding is not specifically banned. Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
You don't think TRYING TO DROWN PEOPLE isn't CRUEL or INHUMAN?
WOW, how does a JEW end up becoming a DISGUSTING NAZI PIG LIKE YOU? What F**KING BRAINDAMAGE do you have?
The UN Convention Against Torture also does not specifically mention waterboarding.
Article 1
1. Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
Moreover, 18 USC Sec. 2340, which legally defines ‘torture’ does not reference waterboarding.
Comment by Exley — November 9, 2007 @ 5:02 pm
SO your argument is SO STUPID that it means you expect SPECIFIC TORTURES TO BE LISTED? Never mind that this SPECIFICALLY outlaws PHYSICAL and MENTAL SUFFERING?
WOW, you REALLY ARE A DISGUSTING LITTLE PIG, you NERDY PIECE OF SH!!!T!
November 10th, 2007 at 3:54 am