CBS investigation finds alarming rate of veteran suicides.
By on Nov 14th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
CBS investigation finds alarming rate of veteran suicides.
Last night, CBS News reported that their five-month investigation of veterans’ deaths revealed data that shows a startling rate of suicide. Chief Investigative Reporter Armen Keteyian reported that veterans were more than twice as likely to commit suicide in 2005 than non-vets. Veterans committed suicide at the rate of between 18.7 to 20.8 per 100,000, compared to other Americans, who did so at the rate of 8.9 per 100,000. Watch it:
[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/suicidevets.320.240.flv]
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I’m at a loss here to comment on the abject sadness this brings up in me.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:09 pmThat’s because we take such good care of our veterans. NOT! I wonder how the rate compares now to when Clinton was in office. My bet is that it was lower when Clinton was in office. I read recently that one vet committed suicide when he read that the Bush Administration had ordered the VA to investigate thousands of cases of vets disabled with PTSD. Their aim was to get as many vets off the disability roles as possible. So this veteran commits suicide with the article beside him. Not too long after that the Bush Administration reversed itself and stopped the investigation.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:10 pmThis investigation smacks of journalistic bias. The data may be accurate, but the insinuation isn’t.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:12 pmDear Bush-Supporting Warmongers,
Take the “I support…” ribbons that you so proudly display on your gas-guzzling monstrosities and shove them up your a$$es!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:14 pmNot too long after that the Bush Administration reversed itself and stopped the investigation.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 14, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
It would appear they stopped it at least one veteran too late.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:16 pmthis ties in neatly with the stunning amount of veterans who are homeless…
It’s really a stunning indictment of where we stand as a society when those that were willing to sacrifice everything to defend this country are allowed to rot.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:16 pmAh, God. I am so very, very ashamed of Bush’s America….
God help us.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:17 pmI’m sure Duncan Hunter views this as Darwinism at work. Oh, the irony, eh?
November 14th, 2007 at 4:20 pmPerhaps if the commanders would not order soldiers to take valium and suck it up just to keep them in the field the men and women would not feel they had no choice.
I wonder how many are the medics, nurses and doctors who try in vain to save young lives and lose the battle day after day.
At least our Vietnam vets knew how many months they spent in hell, our men and women are in limbo until Bush decides to let them go. An a.w.o.l. President killing real soldiers.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:22 pmThe blood of these brave men and women is on every one who refuses to bring them home and supports an a.w.o.l. President.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:24 pmPunish the monkey,
November 14th, 2007 at 4:25 pmLet the organ grinder go…
(Mark Knoffler)
I say we should make all these contractors that lost the money we gave them give it back in the form of support for the troops coming home. Build some housing and give jobs to these fellows that fought to line their pocketbooks with no bid contracts.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:28 pmThe Republican mantra seems to apply here: Life is sacred, until you’re born, then you can fend for yourselves.
Veterans’ benefits must be seen as a Socialist program. That’s why Republicans hate veterans.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pmBush and the Fascist War Mongers could care less about their fodder once they get home, cut their funding, let them serve but cut them short by ONE DAY to get their deserved bennefits, make the paperwork to get the care they need so long and so complicated that many just give up.
Putting little yellow ribbons on their SUVs.
This is how Fascist Repukian support the Vets.
This is just sick.
I’m a Vet and how did I help, I took a stressed out returning Iraq War Vet into my home for 1 year to help get their education and life back in order. No rent charged, free everything, that’s how you can help.
Buck Fush
November 14th, 2007 at 4:32 pm#12 Actually Denver, CO did build a house for a totally disabled vet and his family, also funded him because it was taking an eternity to get his disability through. I bet there are other cities that have done something for our vets as well. How about some pro bono legal work to get the disability they deserve? Where is TCDON the lawyer when you need him.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pmI can’t wait to see the warmongers spin this one. Wait, let me guess – it’s CBS’ fault!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:34 pmThe data may be accurate, but the insinuation isn’t.
Comment by hits — November 14, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
And this comment smacks of mean-spirited stupidity…
November 14th, 2007 at 4:35 pmVeterans commit suicide because of issues they have. Many of the issues they have are a direct result of decisions that they have willfully made – like joining the military. Lots of other people commit suicide too, many for reasons that are outside their control. Maybe they need more of our sympathies than do the veterans?
November 14th, 2007 at 4:36 pm#14 Cutting the one day off the National Guard unit was so dispicable ! These guys did not sign to serve overseas the word National guard means protect the home country. So many loss homes, jobs and sometimes family. Again I bring up our a.w.o.l. President most National Guard in his era served 6 years, weekends and two weeks in the summer. Where was awol George?
November 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pmThe Republic of Stupidity,
Do you have anything to dispute my argument, or to advance our conversation here?
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:37 pmLooks like the TP monitors stepped away from the keyboard too soon, and the trolls are back, proving how pointless they are and demonstrating their willingness to throw soldiers under the bus for their own selfish wants. Pathetic.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:39 pmANYONE DISRESPECTING THIS ISSUE NEEDS TO LEAVE THIS POST.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:40 pmTHIS IS ABUSE TO THE BRAVE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY DO THE WORK FOR THE LAZY, COWARDLY SUB HUMANS WHO PRETEND TO BE A HUMAN.
#21 – This post is regarding soldiers who take their own lives because of the lies they were told. NOt about anything else.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:41 pmStay on the thread or leave.
Lots of other people commit suicide too, many for reasons that are outside their control. Maybe they need more of our sympathies than do the veterans?
Comment by hits — November 14, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
“Veterans committed suicide at the rate of between 18.7 to 20.8 per 100,000, compared to other Americans, who did so at the rate of 8.9 per 100,000.”
Moron!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:41 pmSending our troops to this insane event Bush call war is in itself mentally cruelty.
Then to serve 3 or 4 tours in this madness would put anyone over the edge.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:42 pmFU Bush.
RemoveBush,
Supporting one’s country is not inconsistent with committing suicide. One can support one’s country and still commit suicide, or not. Your point is neither relevant, not coherent.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:42 pmLividLib,
Your facts make sense. Your point is what exactly?
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:43 pmLots of other people commit suicide too, many for reasons that are outside their control. Maybe they need more of our sympathies than do the veterans? — Comment by hits
In other words, “If GIs commit suicide, it’s their own fault for joining the National Guard. Focus anti-suicide efforts elsewhere.” Goes to show how little respect rightwingers have for those who do the fighting.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:44 pmVeterans commit suicide because of issues they have. Many of the issues they have are a direct result of decisions that they have willfully made – like joining the military. Lots of other people commit suicide too, many for reasons that are outside their control. Maybe they need more of our sympathies than do the veterans?
Comment by hits — November 14, 2007 @ 4:36 pm
————————
Oh my f’ing god! I used to think that some of your comments made sense. However, after reading this post, I think you’re just about the coldest person on earth.
Pray you never meet THIS vet in person. You’ll beg me to let you kill yourself – a situation you put yourself in by being such a horrible person. As a drill instructor said to me once: You are lower than whale shit!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:45 pmPlease ignore the trolls.
A good game of Whack-A-Trollâ„¢ is always fun, but not when they fling feces in order to provoke getting whacked. Then all we get is feces-caked threads.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pmkoko the talking gorilla,
Committing suicide is a personal decision. One needs to view it somewhat independent of whether the person is a veteren or not.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:46 pmWow.
Wow at that awful statistic.
Wow that a certain someone is back (how’d that happen?), making stupid comments (no surprise) and doesn’t support the veterans?! Now part is a surprise. But, then again, considering this person’s obsession with survival I suppose that’s just more food for him!
November 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pmOh, look. “hits” is back. Pity.
You are vile beyond words, Jake.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:47 pmVet,
If a vet commits suicide due to a situation he couldn’t handle, but didn’t have the foresight to see, that’s his problem. This does not mean that we look upon Vets as any less patriotic. That’s a different dimension, and is independent of the issue of suicide.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmHits if you want to take your life let me know I will help you.
Mom of two soldiers and one soldier who gave his life in Iraq.
You are a sick s.o.b. just like your idol Bush.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmTripMaster Monkey,
Maybe you should focus on contributing to the thread instead of hanging around and focusing on me?
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmHits, please just go away. You add nothing to any debate, your attempt to use “big” words you obviously don’t actually understand just makes you appear sad and rather pathetic.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:49 pmI would actually feel sorry for you if behind it all was not a mean-spirited, selfish coward who only cares about his own comfort and well being above all else. And what is most amazing is that your life, by any impartial measurement, is most assurdely crap.
texaslady,
Couple of points:
1) Congratulations on having sons who chose to serve. I hope your sons understand what they are getting in to.
2) I do not have any idols.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pmWhat a stupid remark by a stupid person. A fine example of the soulless right and why they’re destined for the permanent minority.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:51 pmBlue Stater,
You could do 2 things – not be influenced by me and add to the conversation.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:52 pmI read an awful article recently regarding the fact that 30% of the returning soldiers suffer from tinnitis.
“Triggered by hearing loss, head injuries and loud noises, tinnitus causes phantom sounds sufferers describe as ringing, roaring or hissing in one or both ears. It can be intermittent or constant – and distracting enough to be crippling.”
That would drive me crazy and it made my heart go out to them!
http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2007/11/11/2007-11-11_iraq__afghanistan_war_vets_suffer_from_h.html
November 14th, 2007 at 4:52 pmHits’ argument, stripped of bullsh_t: if GI’s want to kill themselves, it’s just Darwinism in action. That’s a good thing.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pmRemoveBush,
Nobody is at FAULT. My point is that one needs to be accountable for one’s actions. That’s the basic reality of existence – suicide or no suicide.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pm“Veterans commit suicide because of issues they have. Many of the issues they have are a direct result of decisions that they have willfully made – like joining the military. Lots of other people commit suicide too, many for reasons that are outside their control. Maybe they need more of our sympathies than do the veterans?
Comment by hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:53 pmYOU are an IDIOT
This article clearly states the difference between veterans that served in Iraq as compared to ordinary society.
Our troops have been asked to swerve in an illegal immoral hideous event… some 3 or 4 times and for what?
If you can be so non caring and unimpressed, why are you not over there?
koko the talking gorilla,
Not true. I would rephrase thus: “If GI’s want to kill themselves, it’s the result of a various set of factors that preceded it – one of which is the trauma they may have suffered on the warfront, and another is their own decision to serve and put themselves in harm’s way”.
Oh, and there is no good or bad involved here.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:55 pmNobody is at FAULT. My point is that one needs to be accountable for one’s actions. That’s the basic reality of existence – suicide or no suicide.
Hits
Comment by hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThis has to be possibly one of the most cold black hearted attitudes I have seen here.
This investigation smacks of journalistic bias. The data may be accurate, but the insinuation isn’t.
Comment by hits — November 14, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
If the data is accurate how so can the report be biased? Please elaborate upon YOUR view.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:55 pmThis turd HAS to be putting us on. Even the most venomous trolls who come here aren’t this contentious and lacking in basic humanity.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:56 pmBlue Stater,
You could do 2 things – not be influenced by me and add to the conversation.
Hits
Like I can possibly be influenced by garbage like you? Annoyed and disgusted, yes, but in any way influenced? Please, I would need a lobotamy for that to occur.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:56 pmNobody is at FAULT. My point is that one needs to be accountable for one’s actions. That’s the basic reality of existence – Hits
Reality is one thing, you being the judge, isnt.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:56 pm“Veterans commit suicide because of issues they have. Many of the issues they have are a direct result of decisions that they have willfully made – like joining the military.”
God, I wish Bush would say that on TV. I have rarely heard such a clear statement of the rightwing’s utter contempt for the realities faced by our fighting men and women.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pmhad enough,
When folks join the military, they willingly accept the risk that they can be put in harm’s way and in situations that they may not believe in. It is the military. They knew that when they went in.
As for why I am not over there, I pay to support the infrastructure that keeps soldiers doing what they are doing. As long as they do the job for me, I’m okay. It’s called “division of society”
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:57 pmhad enough,
Reality is not inconsistent with cold heartedness.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIn other words, “If GIs commit suicide, it’s their own fault for joining the National Guard. Focus anti-suicide efforts elsewhere.†Goes to show how little respect rightwingers have for those who do the fighting.
Comment by koko the talking gorilla — November 14, 2007 @ 4:44 pm
Please don’t judge all right-wingers by the drivel being spewed forth by one truly sick individual. I deplore the general apathy displayed by the right when it comes to the military (spend lots of money to keep them fighting, but forget about them once they have served their purpose), but I have never heard any wingnut say anything that’s as cold and evil as what “hits” is saying. I’ll give the right enough credit that they will at least SAY this is a shame, even if they do nothing about it.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:58 pmQ: How can you tell the troll’s chair is level?
A: The drool comes out of both sides of his mouth.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:58 pmIf the data is accurate how so can the report be biased? Please elaborate upon YOUR view.
Comment by Xisithrus — November 14, 2007 @ 4:55 pm
Don’t encourage him. You know his view will be twisted, probably intentionally so just to invite emotional responses. He’s a waste of badwidth. Let him fester in his own irrelevance.
November 14th, 2007 at 4:59 pmXisithrus,
My view is that the data may be accurate.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 4:59 pmXisithrus,
I am the judge of my own reality, as you are of yours (hopefully)
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 5:00 pmI see ,Blue Stater, that Hits ignore list has morphed into ‘influenced by me.’
November 14th, 2007 at 5:00 pmQ: How can you get a troll off your porch?
A: Pay for the pizza.
I know these jokes are off topic, but they contribute about as much meaningful information to the thread as the trolls’ comments.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:00 pmThose suicides are on Bush’s head.
His propaganda and lies got most of them there in the first place. They were impressionable young men and women who believed the propaganda and thought they were doing the right thing when, in fact, their service was for altogether different reasons than the ones they were told.
People are dying because of Bush’s lies.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:00 pmkoko the talking gorilla,
Again you assume my opinion to comport with “right wing”. Your desire to assume compulsively renders your post ineffective and irrelevant.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 5:01 pmQ: How can you get a troll off the phone?
A: Ask him to be a man and enlist!
November 14th, 2007 at 5:01 pmQ: How can you get a troll off the phone?
A: Ask him to be a man and enlist!
November 14th, 2007 at 5:02 pm———————–
Or better yet: Tell him you’re the Army recruiter!
RemoveBush,
Again, nobody is at fault. Reality is the result of a series of actions.
Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 5:02 pmQ: How do you clear a room of trolls?
A: Invite some smart, strong women.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:02 pmQ: How can you get a troll off the phone?
A: 24 is on and they have a suitcase nuke!
November 14th, 2007 at 5:04 pmLooks like
Jake“hits” has been flushed once again.Hallelujah.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:04 pmIf anyone needs a fresh reminder of the horrible, inhuman, sociopathic ugliness of Bush cultists, their reaction to this tragedy provides a new teaching moment. Is there any level to which they will not sink in support of their beloved leader? And, really, how DOES a veteran feel about these comments made by Bush supporters. Does a veteran feel that these Bush supporters are supporting troops when they post something like “suicide is a personal choice.”
Simply, unbelievably disgusting!
November 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pmBack to the actual story, it’s clear that the treatment of veterans and especially the treatment of mental health for veterans is woefully inadequate and needs to be adressed by Congress as this administration has shown they won’t do anything.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pmQ: How can you get a troll off the phone?
A: Hello Mark Foley here.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:05 pmQ: How can you get a troll off the phone?
A: Hello Mark Foley here.
Comment by Xisithrus — November 14, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
Because he hangs up and runs right over….??
November 14th, 2007 at 5:06 pmmary: “Those suicides are on Bush’s head.”
Absolutely. But, I would add those who shilled for him to the list. I’m thinking of phony “liberals” like Frank Rich, Ellen Goodman, Richard Cohen, Chris Matthews and Tim Russert. They all worked overtime to convince us that Gore was a creep and Bush was a good guy. They’re dripping with blood and we shouldn’t forget their part in all this.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:09 pmBecause he hangs up and runs right over….??
Comment by Blue Stater
Because hes hung and runs right over. =)
November 14th, 2007 at 5:09 pmPlease folks, just report hits. don’t respond to the scumbag. it has gone too far on this thread.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:09 pmQ: How do you get a troll off the phone?
A: Ask him to stay on the line a little longer, so the trace can complete.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:10 pmThink Progress, fix your troll problem. It is bad when your guest blogger mentions a troll problem in his post. Get it?
November 14th, 2007 at 5:10 pm“When folks join the military, they willingly accept the risk that they can be put in harm’s way and in situations that they may not believe in -Hits
They join to defend their nation not get involved in nation building.
I recall that Bush WAS against nationa buidling and said troops should not be used for that.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:11 pmI read an awful article recently regarding the fact that 30% of the returning soldiers suffer from tinnitis.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:12 pmThis and all the other horror stories these vets are going through, not to mention the 4 million displaced Iraqi people and the possible 1 million dead and for what? Then when you look at just who has profited… you want to scream and even that is not enough.
Thank you, TP mods for addressing the troll infestation. This subject of this thread is too important to allow ignorant attention-seeking trolls to degrade it.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:12 pmSo? Why didn’t you stay in?
November 14th, 2007 at 5:12 pmMy point is that one needs to be accountable for one’s actions.
LOL Oh the humanity. So the vets that kill themselves should be held accountable for their actions – which is tough when they are dead. But do you believe Bush, Cheney, Craig, etc. etc., who are alive and kicking, are also accountable for their actions? Bush doesn’t believe he has made ONE error in 7 years – NOT ONE. Cheney got his shooting victim to apologize to Cheney!!!! Craig says – “I take it back, I really didn’t do it” AFTER he pled guilty.
I can predict what you’ll say next hits, “There is no place for hypocrisy in government.”
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
November 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmSadly, this is nothing new. War is horrible — quite unlike the G.I. Joe environment it’s often portrayed to be. Vets have been coming home from wars with PTSD and other mental/emotional ailments for generations. Some get help. Others try to “tough” it out because our culture looks upon such things as signs of weakness. Still others try to dull the pain with drugs or drink. I had a cousin — a WWII vet — who struggled with his PTSD for about 13 years before he killed himself. Is it any wonder that suicide is more common with our vets than with the general public?
My point is that because this isn’t a new problem, it’s something that we should have been placing importance on all along. And that may be the biggest shame of it.
The reasoning behind the Webb amendment was that giving soldiers more time between deployments could lessen the risk of PTSD. Sadly, it was rejected. We truly need to do more if we want to really “support the troops.”
November 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmA suggestion:
If you must respond to a troll, please copy only the “Comment by” line, including the date and time.
We’ll know what you’re responding to, if the filth is still there. If TP deletes the troll filth, then none of it remains copied in our comments.
Just a suggestion…
November 14th, 2007 at 5:13 pmTrolls dont bother me with their silliness, it just shows what small shallow men they are.
Seeing death is not something the human mind can easily accept. The bible, and many who arent religious would agree, thou shall not kill.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:16 pmHello and thx for the tip Zooey =)
November 14th, 2007 at 5:17 pmI notice that the discussion is centering on the Iraqi vets, but as I read the above, I can’t tell if the rate of suicide is higher in Iraqi vets or in ALL vets – which at this point would include one person from WWI, a lot from WWII, and extend through Korea and Nam to the present day.
If the later, a lot of these folks didn’t have a choice whether to enlist or not (with certain loopholes like leaving the country).
Also I see a problem in the stats in the linked article where the double rate is as compared to the US population as a whole. Of course, young males are rather likely to engage in risky behavior.
Before anyone flames me, I have absolutely no problem at all that being in a war zone could cause mental stress leading to suicide. I have absolutely no problem at all believing that the military boot camp model of training (which includes “breaking down the soldier so you can build them back up”) leaves some people with mental problems.
I’m just saying the stats need to be presented in a clearer manner.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:20 pmHi Zep. Someone else suggested we do that in the previous “Jake” days, and I thought it was a good idea. Just passing it along. Unfortunately, I can’t remember who had the great idea. :(
November 14th, 2007 at 5:21 pmI am convinced that the primary psychological difference between lefties and righties is that empathy — the ability to recognize, perceive and feel directly the sufferings of another person — is viewed as a weakness by conservatives, a trait worthy of scorn and contempt. That’s why some rightwingers can taunt sick people who can’t afford health care (Rush Limbaugh) or shamelessly shrug off GI suicides as “a personal choice” (”hits,” here).
What I don’t get is why righties are so empthy-challenged. Is it because they are strangers to suffering, or because they are suffering terribly in their own daily lives?
November 14th, 2007 at 5:22 pm“When folks join the military, they willingly accept the risk that they can be put in harm’s way and in situations that they may not believe in -Hits
November 14th, 2007 at 5:24 pmYou FOOL
when folks join the military they take an OATH TO THE CONSTITUTION not to some sick play book of PNAC written by a bunch of greedy pigs.
Trolls dont bother me with their silliness, it just shows what small shallow men they are.
Comment by Xisithrus — November 14, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
Their silliness doesn’t bother me, either. What bothers me is when they take the conventions of debate — opposing viewpoints, Socratic method, reasonable discussion — and turn them on their heads for no other reason than to amuse themselves by derailing threads.
Sure, if people wouldn’t respond, they wouldn’t succeed. But that depends on everyone visiting the comments recognizing the familair trolls and maintaining a disciplined refusal to engage. That’s tough to achieve in any group, particularly a progressive one where differing viewpoints are valued (responsible differing viewpoints, that is) and generally respected.
I agree that, for the most part, trolls are harmless and even do our side more good than their own because they’re so transparently stupid. But when they account for more than half of the posts on a single thread, as the troll du jour did earlier today, then something’s wrong and real discussion is impossible.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:25 pmIs the point here that maybe, just maybe, the government has committed two offenses which SHOULD be generating extreme outrage from the people that they represent? That is:
1. Veterans returning from combat are not given enough post combat health care – in this case mental health care but not limited to this.
And
2. The government has willfully neglected past history when, it has clearly been documented, veterans returning from combat have had post traumatic stress disorder. I am specifically thinking of Vietnam when far too many vets where dropped off at home after the war and left to return to normal life when what they went through is as far from normal.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:27 pmCome on. Hits is here only to disrupt discussion. He will post any kind of inflaming comment just to derail threads.
If you answer directly to him and stop seeking solutions for the Vets problem, he wins.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmMissMolly,
My dad is a WWII vet, and he drinks every night. For as long as I can remember, he had 3 or 4 drinks a night. Always. He rarely talked. It’s just now, when I’m in my own middle age that I’m beginning to understand him. He’s just recently ( in the last couple of years) begun to talk a little about his combat experiences. It’s ugly. He was the same age as the Iraq vets are now. We’re in for a long slog here with this I’m afraid.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:28 pmI recall that Bush WAS against nation buidling and said troops should not be used for that. — Xisithrus
Xisithrus, Bush said he was against nation-building then. He still is. Just look at his record.
Nation-destroying, that’s his specialty.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:33 pmMy thought is that there has always been a heavy load of romanticism about war that is used as propaganda by the govt in order to keep the recruitment numbers high.
Why would the govt have to pay for schools, hospitals, universities and health services when you can pay the almighty war companies and enlist young, curious, excited, poor, or ignorant men and women in order to accomplish their economic goals, mostly overseas?
US is the only country in the world that I know that every two minutes there is a “Join the Army/Navy/Ranger/Marines” ad on TV.
Why offer those young people a chance to develop themselves if you can keep them stressed, disabled and forgotten once they have been employed? It is so much better to praise their lives and make corny movies about it than REALLY CARE about those young people, like giving them serious opportunities in life instead of Wal-Mart and Taco Bell.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:34 pmWhen trolls disrespect our fallen soldiers whether it is from an ied or emotional wounds from watching their brothers die in their arms it is beyond “just commenting”.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMiss Molly I wish I could see that some conservative/Republicans actually do care about ending this illegal war but I don’t see it. I don’t see it with the Dems either. While someone or alot of someones are making money on our sons and daughters blood the war will continue.
However, our children WERE LIED INTO THIS WAR and those who defend it may God forgive because I can’t.
What would any of us do if we were forced to kill innocent people in a war of choice forced upon a nation by it’s “president” and the republican party in order to line the oil companies pockets with the people’s tax dollars and OUR treasury only to return home to discover that the government who forced you to kill for it, callousy turns its back on you because you refused to re-up and continue killing innocent people?
November 14th, 2007 at 5:41 pmHe rarely talked. It’s just now, when I’m in my own middle age that I’m beginning to understand him. He’s just recently ( in the last couple of years) begun to talk a little about his combat experiences. It’s ugly. He was the same age as the Iraq vets are now. We’re in for a long slog here with this I’m afraid.
Comment by Bobwurst — November 14, 2007 @ 5:28 pm
I’m sorry to say that I agree with your conclusion. A certain portion of the returning vets will probably be less communicative (than if they hadn’t gone over there), more likely to abuse and less likely to thrive. That spells problems for decades. Thanks to the neo-cons and all of their enablers.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:41 pmWho let (s)hits back in? I thought he was banned. What’s up TP monitors, how did he sneak back in?
November 14th, 2007 at 5:42 pmThere was an amazing story on Morning Edition today about Demond Mullins, a National Guard soldier returning from Iraq, and the demons he’s had to overcome in order to resume a normal life, including thoughts of suicide.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16272276
Let’s see the trolls blame Demond Mullins for his problems.
November 14th, 2007 at 5:45 pmHits just needs to be banned. We know that he is a racist, a liar, a fascist and inhuman ghoul. Note his latest:
However, this does bring up a point concerning conservatives and their lack of respect for the individual. It is always the individual’s fault.
1. Join the reserves and get put on stop loss to be sent on multiple tours to Iraq. (A use of the reserves and guards that has never been seen before. In Vietnam, they were not sent on successive deployments because the Democratic and Republican administrations brought in enough draftees and expanded the military.)
2. Refuse to expand the military as suggested by many Democrats such as Kerry and Republicans such as McCain. Don’t cry about it. You undertook the risk.
3. Fail to understand the difference in low intensity warfare in terms of stress on the troops. (In most previous wars – WWI, WWII, Korea and to an extent, Vietnam, there would be large violent battles with a lot of down time in between. This was caused by the necessity move troops, adjust battle lines and so forth.) The stress of constant ambushes, IED’s and attacks on bases makes this a 24/7 violence. The stress of small unit engagements and patrols as opposed to large formation engagements also causes additional stress. But note, the inability of our civilian military leaders to increase the military to permit appropriate rest for the troops simply means that it is the troops fault.
4. Most anomalous results have a root cause. A dramatic increase in suicides has something that causes it. It also forecasts significant problems for the battle worthiness of the military. This is more than twice the rate of suicide than for veterans of previous conflicts. Do the conservative wing nuts really believe that these are just inferior individuals who can not cope?
November 14th, 2007 at 6:05 pmA significant part of CBS’s story last nite was that NO ONE in the Govt….specifically the Veterans Adm….has been tracking the suicide numbers. CBS has to do it’s own state by state research of death certificates, etc…and they admit that their numbers are not Complete.
November 14th, 2007 at 6:21 pmSo why isn’t the Govt. tracking these suicide numbers????
Blind eyes???
So why isn’t the Govt. tracking these suicide numbers????
Blind eyes???
Comment by Badger — November 14, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
November 14th, 2007 at 6:28 pmHits’s attitude of this article is a slam against the troops, therefore, I feel needs defending. I could not imagine some one reading these posts, someone that lost a love one to this insanity, looking at Hits’s cold attitude and see no defense.
November 14th, 2007 at 6:52 pmOtherwise, I do not feed the trolls.
You should really give some props to the Bloggers that were well out a head of the pack in remarking this story that CBS is only reporting on now… As per usual, the MSM is only a half a year to year behind Bloggers.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:32 pmThough, at least the MSM is finally writing about it!
November 14th, 2007 at 7:33 pmRush Limbaugh will call them “phony” suicides.
November 14th, 2007 at 7:48 pmWere these veterans taking anti depressants or given them? A side effect from these meds can be suicidal. This would be something to look into. The soldiers miss having normal lives. For so long this war has been dragged out, it’s time to think about our people and end it. Basically, this is a crazy idea of keeping these soldiers in Iraq. What I’m not so sure of is do the soldiers get their promised money up front for college, bonuses, etc… before departing to Iraq to fight this dangerous war? A higher power is watching. The day will come when the responsible ones will answer for what they’ve done to our lost love ones. All we can do is pray for the military and their family and friends.
November 14th, 2007 at 11:34 pmIt’s so sad the situation turned into a disaster.
So why isn’t the Govt. tracking these suicide numbers????
Blind eyes???
Comment by Badger — November 14, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Comment by Zooey — November 14, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Zooey’s reply is spot on, but I would like to add that this administration simply does not care–just as they don’t care about all the homeless vets, either. Remember the people Dumbya calls his “base” are “the haves and the haves more.”
November 15th, 2007 at 12:02 amAll we can do is pray for the military and their family and friends.
It’s so sad the situation turned into a disaster.
Comment by heritage — November 14, 2007 @ 11:34 pm
I’ll address your last comment first. “This”, the rise of the neocons and the Bush administration, was a disaster before it began.
We can do much more than pray. We can write letters, protest, yell, scream, and vote. And, if their is any justice, we can try, convict, and punish the guilty. Then we can apologize to the entire world for several decades. With incredible good luck, and the forgiveness of good people everywhere, our great-grandchildren might be left a country worthy of love.
As for blaming possible use of anti-depressants for the suicide of psychological casualties; it’s inaccurate and unlikely. Anti-depressants have only been linked to suicide in those who are, already, “pathologically depressed”. Any competent doctor is aware of the risk and designs a treatment plan to prevent the, very slight, risk. These poor souls are victims of trauma exacerbated by a lack of care. And caring.
November 15th, 2007 at 2:11 amI can’t believe that Bush supporters (you too hits) would even show up in this thread.
November 15th, 2007 at 8:45 am“if these numbers don’t wake up the american people”………..
guess again, these numbers will not wake up the populace
IT’S CALLED THE AMERICAN DREAM, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE ASLEEP TO BELIEVE IT
November 15th, 2007 at 9:11 amNothing will awaken those who have no choice but to believe in this fiasco…and how sad a premise is THAT for something like an illegal and ill-conceived war?
November 15th, 2007 at 1:40 pmI can’t believe that Bush supporters (you too hits) would even show up in this thread.
Comment by DanCaveman
They’re here to show what a lie “compassionate conservatism” is.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:10 pm