Comments on: Feingold to offer amendment striking telecomm immunity. http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:47:56 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: judyinnm http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156977 judyinnm Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:25:21 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156977 Nixon was not impeached, but after his resignation, it required a presidential pardon by Ford to prevent Nixon's potential prosecution for crimes committed while president (alliteration, much?). So, these guys could be held liable for their crimes (committed while in office), after they leave. Nixon was not impeached, but after his resignation, it required a presidential pardon by Ford to prevent Nixon’s potential prosecution for crimes committed while president (alliteration, much?). So, these guys could be held liable for their crimes (committed while in office), after they leave.

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156683 Chocolate Jesus Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:59:49 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156683 about some questions of law, not all of them..sorry.. about some questions of law, not all of them..sorry..

]]> By: Chocolate Jesus http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156682 Chocolate Jesus Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:58:44 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156682 http://intelligence.senate.gov/071019/fisa.pdf I beleive the relevant part starts on page 44. unfortunately, ex post facto prohibitions wont save the day, as past precedent has determined this applies to criminal cases only, not civil ones. however, i strongly beleive this immunity is unconstituional for other reasons. for one thing, it looks like it allows the attorney general to act as member of the judiciary by allowing him to make a binding determination of what is and is not legal (read around page 44 where it talks about his determination scrutinized using an "abuse of discretion"standard.. this "abuse of discretion" terminology is normally something reserved for the defence given to judges decisions about questions of law) anyone with any constitional law expertise got any thoughts? http://intelligence.senate.gov/071019/fisa.pdf

I beleive the relevant part starts on page 44.

unfortunately, ex post facto prohibitions wont save the day, as past precedent has determined this applies to criminal cases only, not civil ones. however, i strongly beleive this immunity is unconstituional for other reasons. for one thing, it looks like it allows the attorney general to act as member of the judiciary by allowing him to make a binding determination of what is and is not legal (read around page 44 where it talks about his determination scrutinized using an “abuse of discretion”standard.. this “abuse of discretion” terminology is normally something reserved for the defence given to judges decisions about questions of law) anyone with any constitional law expertise got any thoughts?

]]> By: sacopenapa http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156579 sacopenapa Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:14:43 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156579 Why don't Bush do the same thing he did for the TREASON case of Scooter Libby? Libby should be behind barrs, but the "Dear Leader" pardomned him!!!!! Rove and Chenney outed a CIA agent just because her husband said that the make believe story of Iraq's threat comming from the White House was a LIE... 9/11's crime scene was cleaned up and messed up with so fast and without propper scientific investigation... trample with a crime scene, in the good old days, used to be a federal crime. A FEDERAL CRIME! Let Bush resolve this matter, perhaps "behind doors", or between page 5 and 6 of 'My pet Goat'... a War of Agression is an INTERNATIONAL CRIME. Bush and his JUNTA are WAR CRIMINALS. But, the weak democrats doing absolutely nothing substantial, are making sure that the US get into the 21th Century as the FACIST STATE OF AMERICA. Why don’t Bush do the same thing he did for the TREASON case of Scooter Libby? Libby should be behind barrs, but the “Dear Leader” pardomned him!!!!! Rove and Chenney outed a CIA agent just because her husband said that the make believe story of Iraq’s threat comming from the White House was a LIE… 9/11’s crime scene was cleaned up and messed up with so fast and without propper scientific investigation… trample with a crime scene, in the good old days, used to be a federal crime. A FEDERAL CRIME! Let Bush resolve this matter, perhaps “behind doors”, or between page 5 and 6 of ‘My pet Goat’… a War of Agression is an INTERNATIONAL CRIME. Bush and his JUNTA are WAR CRIMINALS. But, the weak democrats doing absolutely nothing substantial, are making sure that the US get into the 21th Century as the FACIST STATE OF AMERICA.

]]> By: sacopenapa http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156577 sacopenapa Thu, 15 Nov 2007 03:01:19 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156577 ...Once upon a time, there was the Constitution. Miss those days! …Once upon a time, there was the Constitution. Miss those days!

]]> By: marlow http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156555 marlow Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:35:42 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156555 Thanks, Russ. In a sea of betrayal, it's good to see someone stand up. RECALL FEINSTEIN. Thanks, Russ. In a sea of betrayal, it’s good to see someone stand up. RECALL FEINSTEIN.

]]> By: Jeannie See http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156549 Jeannie See Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:21:38 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156549 I understand why he isn't running for the Presidency, but damn, I wish he'd reconsider. I understand why he isn’t running for the Presidency, but damn, I wish he’d reconsider.

]]> By: WaltTheMan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156546 WaltTheMan Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:18:30 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156546 The Constitution is still the law of the land. It is not a mere piece of paper - it forms the foundation of our nation and our rights. The Constitution is still the law of the land. It is not a mere piece of paper – it forms the foundation of our nation and our rights.

]]> By: dixie blood http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156503 dixie blood Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:02:16 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156503 You should one out!!! Should say, You should <b>try</b> one out!!! You should one out!!!

Should say, You should try one out!!!

]]> By: dixie blood http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156501 dixie blood Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:00:58 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156501 Go, GO, GO!!! Russ "SpineGold" Feingold!!!! GO!!! Hey Nancy PollLoser are you watching? This is what a SPINE looks like!!! You should one out!!! However, do they make one small enough to fit your tiny little soul!!! Go, GO, GO!!!

Russ “SpineGold” Feingold!!!! GO!!!

Hey Nancy PollLoser are you watching? This is what a SPINE looks like!!! You should one out!!!

However, do they make one small enough to fit your tiny little soul!!!

]]> By: Ret. Col. Jack Ripper http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156485 Ret. Col. Jack Ripper Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:43:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156485 gumby: "The only concievable way to get Bush in front of a War Crimes Tribunal is if he is impeached and removed from office. There is no other way it would be allowed." I don't think that's the case. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes. gumby: “The only concievable way to get Bush in front of a War Crimes Tribunal is if he is impeached and removed from office.

There is no other way it would be allowed.”

I don’t think that’s the case. There is no statute of limitations on war crimes.

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156479 freeman Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:36:37 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156479 but the Party convicted ? And if they aren't convicted ? I'm still unsure ,but truly hope you are correct . but the Party convicted ? And if they aren’t convicted ? I’m still unsure ,but truly hope you are correct .

]]> By: freeman http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156461 freeman Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:21:15 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156461 unless I'm mistaken it takes impeachment now to prosecute the pres later for actions taken while in office . With di fiendstein on the judiciary the telecoms anfd torturers can rest easy in their positions. Call Harry reid and tell him how your feeling about Dianne Senator Harry Reid 202-224-3542 unless I’m mistaken it takes impeachment now to prosecute the pres later for actions taken while in office . With di fiendstein on the judiciary the telecoms anfd torturers can rest easy in their positions.
Call Harry reid and tell him how your feeling about Dianne
Senator Harry Reid
202-224-3542

]]> By: AngryOne http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156433 AngryOne Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:56:04 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156433 As the Senate Judiciary Committee prepares to debate the renewal of FISA revisions made in August, President Bush and his Republican allies in Congress are endorsing a unique double-standard when it comes to immunity for telecommunications firms. Within the United States, they argue, service providers such as AT&T and Verizon must cooperate with U.S. government demands for access to Americans' electronic communications and should be immune from citizens' lawsuits. But in China and elsewhere, as Republican reaction to this week's Yahoo saga suggests, not so much. For the details, see: <b><a href="http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000822.htm" rel="nofollow">"FISA, Yahoo and the GOP Double-Standard on Telecom Immunity."</a></b> As the Senate Judiciary Committee prepares to debate the renewal of FISA revisions made in August, President Bush and his Republican allies in Congress are endorsing a unique double-standard when it comes to immunity for telecommunications firms. Within the United States, they argue, service providers such as AT&T and Verizon must cooperate with U.S. government demands for access to Americans’ electronic communications and should be immune from citizens’ lawsuits. But in China and elsewhere, as Republican reaction to this week’s Yahoo saga suggests, not so much.

For the details, see:
“FISA, Yahoo and the GOP Double-Standard on Telecom Immunity.”

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156430 Marie Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:53:01 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156430 Ex Post Facto Laws Are statutes that make an act punishable as a crime when such an act was not an offense when committed. Article I, section 10, clause 1 of the Constitution provides that no state shall pass any ex post facto law; Article I, section 9, clause 3 imposes the same prohibition upon the federal government. Ex Post Facto Laws
Are statutes that make an act punishable as a crime when such an act was not an offense when committed. Article I, section 10, clause 1 of the Constitution provides that no state shall pass any ex post facto law; Article I, section 9, clause 3 imposes the same prohibition upon the federal government.

]]> By: WaltTheMan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156424 WaltTheMan Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:49:24 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156424 Comment by judyinnm — November 14, 2007 @ 6:21 pm There is at least one. Comment by judyinnm — November 14, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
There is at least one.

]]> By: Marie http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156420 Marie Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:48:31 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156420 Walt the Man calls it at #43 -- it is Constitutionally illegal to pass laws ex post facto. Any corrupt congress would be able to operate with impunity and when it got too hot they would pass a law exempting themselves from guilt. Of course, this is Bush's plan and he has a complacent congress who will acquiesce - but it is ILLEGAL TO DO SO! That should be the end of story, but we all know it is not. Walt the Man calls it at #43 — it is Constitutionally illegal to pass laws ex post facto.
Any corrupt congress would be able to operate with impunity and when it got too hot they would pass a law exempting themselves from guilt.
Of course, this is Bush’s plan and he has a complacent congress who will acquiesce – but it is ILLEGAL TO DO SO! That should be the end of story, but we all know it is not.

]]> By: judyinnm http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156403 judyinnm Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:21:59 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156403 Every legislator in the US congress who still believes in the Constitution should sign on as sponsors of Feingold's bill - but how many of THOSE are there? Every legislator in the US congress who still believes in the Constitution should sign on as sponsors of Feingold’s bill – but how many of THOSE are there?

]]> By: WaltTheMan http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156397 WaltTheMan Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:13:52 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156397 Comment by RemoveBush — November 14, 2007 @ 5:11 pm Each point that you cite in Calder v Bull says that the law can not be watered down in order to make acts that would be criminal by prior acts or laws innocent by subsequent ones. In addition, no provision contained in the Constatution can be overriden by any means except amendment. Comment by RemoveBush — November 14, 2007 @ 5:11 pm
Each point that you cite in Calder v Bull says that the law can not be watered down in order to make acts that would be criminal by prior acts or laws innocent by subsequent ones. In addition, no provision contained in the Constatution can be overriden by any means except amendment.

]]> By: smgumby http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/comment-page-2/#comment-4156368 smgumby Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:46:53 +0000 http://edit.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/14/feingold-to-offer-amendment-striking-telecomm-immunity/#comment-4156368 The only concievable way to get Bush in front of a War Crimes Tribunal is if he is impeached and removed from office. There is no other way it would be allowed. The only concievable way to get Bush in front of a War Crimes Tribunal is if he is impeached and removed from office.

There is no other way it would be allowed.

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