Nope. If you ever go an read rightwing blogs Mr P is pretty representative of their level.

DigDug

Hillary’s problem isn’t what she says, its what she does. When it comes to Iraq, she sort of claimed to have made a mistake, and then proceded to do exactly the same thing with Iran, when the senate voted on whether to declare Iran’s lawfully constituted military a terrorist organisation.

Ever since that vote voters who have noted that this is a serious and important issue, have been accused of being propagandist for the white house by Hillary Clinton. She hasn’t answered the question she has ducked the question and attacked the questioner because it speaks directly to what kind of a candidate she is.

If you want another 4 years under a Bush presidency vote Clinton, because she is not going to admit a mistake and she is not going to learn from them. You might get slightly better book-keeping, but you are not going to get out of the Middle East and you are not going to get peace.

In the most recent Democrat debates, for all of Hillary’s attempts at defending herself for sheer substance, she didn’t show any. That question about Iran is not getting asked repeatedly because someone’s out to get her, its getting asked repeatedly because it is an important question.

On here site this question is actually answered, and her answer sounds pretty good to me.
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/

Now, if she just folllows through on her promise…

I imagine the concept of caring about anybody or anything other then yourself must be quite novel to you Mr P. How sad your hollow existance must be.

So, loon, when was the last time the Republicans did anything to help the troops? Have they signed on to laws that say our troops must be properly equipped, rested and trained? I thought not. Have they signed on to legislation to give our troops better medical care and a decent raise? I thought not.

So, loon, what exactly have the Republicans (and Bush) done to support our troops?

Great posts from so many posters stating their support for the troops. Also great posts to define the frustration with Conservatism.

I have always supported the troops. They were my first concern when the war drums against Iraq were first beating. There was never a concern on if we would be successful in beating a 3rd world military. But there was a great concern about putting our troops in harm’s way. I wanted to believe that Bush was right, that there was this connection between Iraq and AQ, that there were active WMD operations, that a nuclear program was being conducted in Iraq but none of this came to be true. And the soldiers paid the highest price for this.

Reading more and finding that the planning for after the initial invasion was practically non existent. Being a Bush supporter was the criteria for the staff of Brehmer. Trying to “win” on the cheap was not the right way to control Iraq but Bush kept going forward. And the soldiers continued to pay the highest price.

inadequate equipment, supplies and logistics further hurt the soldiers. Stop loss orders and extended tours in theater hurt the soldiers. All of this and more was done at the hand of this president, his administration and the republican held house and senate. And the soldiers continued to pay the highest price.

I have always supported the troops. So much so that I decided to speak out against the handling of this conflict. We have the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen. We have the worst direction this country has ever seen.

I don’t care if someone doesn’t believe I support the troops. I do care if they are spreading lies about my support of the troops.

You John K. are a liar.

It is bad enough when the trolls push misinformation here, but when we do it too (unless you really are a troll), we are only forming a circular firing squad.

None of the candidates have said they are “going to keep the war going through 2012″. A couple have said that they may keep some troops in Iraq to protect American citizens still there, but all have said they would bring combat troops home.

Poor Mr. P. He can only post when the self-hate reaches a certain toxic level. It’s evident in every post that drips off his keyboard.

Comment by Bruce Gorton — November 16, 2007 @ 6:13 am

Well said!

And I second the notion that Keltoi is not a troll, in my experience. He’s brought up some interesting points and injected different perspectives into debates, without resorting to talking-point catchphrases. Posters like that give me hope that there can be some common ground between progressives and conservatives, even if it’s just an agreement to disagree.

Comment by Bruce Gorton — November 16, 2007 @ 6:13 am

Phenomenal post!! I am glad someone can articulate it so well!!

It is like health cost…the elite class are all covered…the ones are not covered are the working class.
The working class will fincance and fight wars…The burden of all of this is on the shoulders of working class. Politicians and journalsits don’t fight wars…they talk about them.

Shoot ‘em up good!

Don’t expct too much; both parties take orders from AIPAC. Whether presidential victory went to Giuliani or Hillary makes it makes no difference. The last vote by Democrats to confirm M. Mukasey shows who runs the show.

Hear, hear!

I appologise if I have mischaracterised you, but please don’t judge the left’s stance based on the fact that some leftwingers have, via years of being turned into the conservative movement’s scape goats, met you with snarls when you rejected that statement.

I respect your wish to distance yourself from the statement, and I do not class you in with the person who made it, that said the distance between the right and the left, between what I see as good and evil, has grown too wide for it to be easy to remove one’s emotions from the debate.

In a day and age when the rightwing has made torture a debateable issue, where America invades countries for being of roughly the same racial stock as your enemies, where the economic rule of the land is to run up the national credit card and hope nobody decides to collect on the debt, passions run high and the divide becomes almost too wide, and too deep to be crossed.

For six years, the Republicans controlled America. They had all three houses, and all three houses cooperated to deliver what you have today, five of the worst non-inflation adjusted deficits in America’s history, doubling America’s debt, two wars, 9/11, Katrina and an image of America normally reserved for America’s worst enemies.

And it wasn’t just Bush. It was conservatism, the actual idealisation of hypocrisy, lying, greed and the general fouling of humanity. The ideal that calls helping people “Socialist” and denies the citizenship of its opponents.

So please, understand why passions run high when you speak like a conservative, because of what conservatism has become.

keltoi?

keltoi?

(the trolls just keep giving up and leaving, why?)

Comment by joe cantwell — November 16, 2007 @ 12:15 am

Why? I thought it might be good to pay some attention to my family.