Senate committee approves eavesdropping bill.
By on Nov 15th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Senate committee approves eavesdropping bill.
Over Bush administration objections, the Senate Judiciary Committee approved a permanent update to FISA today, which states that “the nation’s intelligence services do not need to request a court warrant to monitor foreign-to-foreign communications involving suspected terrorists.” The committee is expected to vote later today on whether to grant retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies that provided clients’ private information to the government.
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Oh Senator Feinstein sells out the nation and Democratic party again. She and Joe Lieberman should get married.
November 15th, 2007 at 4:58 pmWhat is the administration objecting to, exactly? Sounds like the Senate is giving them exactly what they requested. (Big surprise!)
November 15th, 2007 at 4:58 pmThere are no words, which is good because they’d be secretly recorded anyway.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:00 pm“The bill would mean the nation’s intelligence services do not need to request a court warrant to monitor foreign-to-foreign communications involving suspected terrorists.”
I’m with you, Toasterhead, this sounds like something they would want…read the whole article, don’t get it. Was there something MORE admin wanted that it didn’t get?
November 15th, 2007 at 5:01 pmYeah, retroactive immunity for everyone in the Bush administration, the repeal of the 4th Amendment and the entire firggin’ Constitution and making Bush President for Life.
*eyeroll*
November 15th, 2007 at 5:03 pmWhat is the administration objecting to, exactly? Sounds like the Senate is giving them exactly what they requested. (Big surprise!)
Comment by toasterhead — November 15, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
You beat me to it.
I don’t understand what the problem is. Why is the WH objecting? They are making the warrantless wiretap legal and permanent.
?
November 15th, 2007 at 5:03 pm#4: I read the whole article, as well…
November 15th, 2007 at 5:04 pmMistook this thread for the soon to be cave-in on retroactive immunity for telecoms. This passage is more like a cover for when Feinstein sells out again.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:06 pmI believe the WH isn’t happy about this because it doesn’t give them the “carte blanche” they’d hoped for. While Bush was spying domestically, he was actually on television stating that he was doing nothing illegal or without an appropriate warrant.
The “rub” for the WH is the fact that the Senate is making a point of ONLY approving “foreign to foreign” spying which makes the point to excluse “domestic to foreign spying” without a FISA warrant.
Actually, this is within the existing FISA laws already so it’s nothing new. FISA permits foreign eavesdropping immediate without a warrant in the case of a suspected terrorist – with a 72 hour window of time for a defacto warrant.
There must be much more to this story. It has to be that Bush sees the handwriting on the wall that by segregating and specifying only “foreign to foreign” spy power, it means that what he’s been doing domestically will be found to be totally “lawless” and “indictable”.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:07 pmOK, thanks for the analysis, Veritas.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThe last thing Shrubbie wanted was for them to separate “domestic” from “foreign” like this. It eliminates the blanket approval he was after to cover his pathetic butt in his illegal spying on american citizens.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThe White House is opposed because the Congress is exerting any influence instead of just shutting up and letting them do whatever they want.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:12 pmAfter all, spying illegally on american citizens SHOULD BE punished according to the law. The FISA court was established principally to assist with security situations and to provide a framework within which the intel agencies could function properly and lawfully.
The fact is that Dumbya began spying immediately upon taking office – and on american citizens – without a warrant – and totally illegally. This can never be accepted and needs to be investigated with appropriate punishment doled out.
Send a letter to every Congressman insisting that they follow the letter of the law and remind them that “defacto immunity” needs a constitutional amendment and cannot be determined by the Congress since it flies in the face of our existing constitutional guarantees.
If Congress continues it’s complicity spree in permitting these heinous and criminal violations of our constitution and bill of rights, then there is nothing left to this democracy; more importantly, nothing credible left to this government and country.
It IS NOT within the legal purview of Congress to approve something which runs contrary to our constitution – and that is this defacto immunity to telecoms. If they attempt to do, then the people need to force them all out of office by mass impeachment of those voting “aye”.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:13 pmHoping your right veritas . It would be a welcome relief in this nightmare .
November 15th, 2007 at 5:13 pm“defacto immunity†needs a constitutional amendment and cannot be determined by the Congress since it flies in the face of our existing constitutional guarantees.
14th Amendment ~ equal treatment under the law!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:14 pmHi RU! Good to see you! You’re right there, too. And I believe that they don’t like the fact that congress is making an issue of “foreign” spying in contrast to domestic spying as well. Chimpyo wanted blanket defacto permission to continue to do what he’s been doing for 6 years. Not going to happen! If it does, this will bring the people out into the streets – and well should.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:15 pmThe CNN article has been re-written. This may help explain the confusion:
From cnn:
“All 10 Democrats on the committee voted for the measure, while all nine Republicans opposed it.
Republicans objected to the effort to push through a complicated Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act modernization plan on which they had not been consulted.
Approval of the proposal by the Democrats was assured after late changes were made in several provisions to satisfy Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island.
Administration officials had been lobbying for a permanent change to the FISA law after an intelligence court ruled earlier this year warrants were needed for those communications.”
November 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pmForeign to Foreign..as if this wasnt done previously? Whats the deal with all this repetitive legislation for things we already have.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pmHey veritas! Been a busy guy lately, but get a few minutes a day to weigh in!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:16 pmHope theses criminal whores get their just desserts.
I’m hoping so as well since it doesn’t make sense that the WH would be against this – something it’s been doing for 6 years. The real and punishable problem Bush has is that he’s been spying on americans via our own telecoms for 6 years as well. The foolhardy morons who followed in lockstep should fry for this – as well as El Jefe for EVERY criminal action he’s taken.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:17 pmRU: Me, too – busy, that is. I will dance in the street when these criminal whores are brought to the justice they so deserve. I can’t wait to see it!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:17 pmX: Precisely! That’s the point – they already have FISA power to do this and have been doing it for 6 years…..so what’s Bush’s major malfunction with this?? It has to be something else….and that something else at the bottom of this rotting barrel of apples is the illegal spying on american citizens which Bush has been doing via the telecoms.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:19 pmSo, a bill was put forth saying that the government could spy on all foreign to foreign communication of suspected terrorists, and all 9 republicans voted against it? Something doesn’t smell right here.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:19 pmI don’t understand what the problem is. Why is the WH objecting? They are making the warrantless wiretap legal and permanent.
?
Comment by Frosty Cupcake
Hopefully someone will re-discover the Constitution/Bill of Rights and take this issue to the SCOTUS. Legislation cannot do away with our ‘God given inalienable rights’. We have a fourth amendmend which is the authority on this subject. Imagine how many calls come to you FROM overseas: tech support for your computers, telemarketers, pollsters, your aunt in greece, your nephew serving in Germany, credit card collection agencies, health care billing services, etc….The foreign to foreign thing is a ruse. We are all going to get wiretapped – wholesale.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:19 pmdim wit: Thx! I don’t trust DiFi any longer. I think Sheldon Whitehouse has a soul, however, so I’m hoping that this means something significant. Sure, Bush wants the FISA rules changed – just like he’s changed every other law he’s broken. This may be Bush’s “waterloo” though and it’s beginning to appear to be so.
This is Bush’s “Nixon”!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:21 pmstratRat: Change that to “we are” already getting…..not “we are all going to” get wiretapped. That’s what the people need to know right now so they can organize and protest – holding both the Admin and the sycophantic law-breaking telecoms who “aided and abetted” Bush in the violation of our constitutional rights to get the justice they so deserve.
Telecoms “danced to the music”; now it’s their turn to “pay the piper”!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:23 pmRepublicans objected to the effort to push through a complicated Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act modernization plan on which they had not been consulted.
… because we all know how big Congressional Republicans have always been on consulting the other side, right?
What a bunch of dipwads.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:23 pmI’m her constituent, and I no longer trust DiFi either. She’s a deep disappointment.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:24 pmThe only answer to swift justice for this criminal cabal is “impeachment” and immediately. Kucinich’s HR333 (should be 666 so it would be more apropos to those being impeached) is the only answer. The people need to press their reps to support the immediate impeachment of this cabal. They are destroying this country with each passing week. We don’t have another year of chicanery before it’s too late.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:25 pmRalph: Wow! What the hell happened to DiFi? Who got to her and about what? What kind of blackmail could have changed this woman’s heart and soul so profoundly? Anything to do with the principals (and principles) of AIPAC, perhaps?
November 15th, 2007 at 5:25 pmRalph: Reptard Dipwads!
November 15th, 2007 at 5:26 pmCouldn’t Bush just pardon the Telecom companies? Or, is it that it would have to go to trial first and would then expose other “classified” information.
Classified = Illegal Activity
November 15th, 2007 at 5:27 pmstratRat: Change that to “we are†already getting…..not “we are all going to†get wiretapped.
Comment by veritas
You are correct…Is there a device we can install to signal us when we are getting tapped? Does anyone know about this technology?
November 15th, 2007 at 5:27 pmI think this: Bush can screw around with the war; screw around with the national debt; screw around with his ongoing lies to the public BUT when we all realize that he’s been illegally spying on every one of us, that’s when the people will draw the line. This will create public angst like nothing else has thus far.
This is the place where We, The People, take back our democracy from the hands of a fascist dictator. This is the place where we reclaim our constitution and the rights it guarantees.
People, living in a state of perpetual fear, will trade many of their freedoms for the illusion of security, but when a government stoops so low as to spy on it’s citizens, then this government does not deserve to be in power any longer. This is the “line in the sand” which the american people are drawing right now.
Constitutional lawyers across this country should be up in arms and uniting to become “american patriots and heroes” when this fascist cabal is thwarted from it’s onward march to totally trashing our constitution.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:30 pmStratRat: Each telecom has it’s own devices. The fact that you subscribe to one of those requesting immunity probably means that everyone they serve has been spied on. Assume it is so because it probably is. The People need to begin “lawyering up” to fight this one.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:31 pmI’m confused , but would welcome even a splinter of hope in the face of so much sustained bad news .
November 15th, 2007 at 5:31 pmI think it’s safe to assume (logically) that if one of these telecoms is serving you, you’ve become a spy target in one way or another – either as a potential target which they haven’t yet gotten to or one they have already sorted and culled out to peer in on. Proving that you have been spied is about as futile as proving that you haven’t been so the assumption would HAVE to go with the probability that you have, simply because one of these telecoms services you. It will be up to the telecoms to provide proof that you haven’t been spied on illegally which is impossible to do. The assumption and burden of proof would fall on the telecoms.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:34 pmThese telecoms know this which is precisely why they’re requesting defacto immunity right now. Their collective asses are on the grill and about to be fried by our constitutional laws and guaranteed rights. They’ve screwed up and must now suffer the consequences.
If they weren’t “very afraid” and seeing the handwriting on the wall for themselves, they wouldn’t be pressing the WH and Congress to help them out.
The telecoms who believed the Shrub when he made promises to them are screwed.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:36 pmYou are correct…Is there a device we can install to signal us when we are getting tapped? Does anyone know about this technology?
Comment by StratRat — November 15, 2007 @ 5:27 pm
At this point in time, life is an open book when one posts on the net or speaks on the phone. Sorry.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:37 pmRemoveBush: The fact that these telecoms have admitted “guilt” in the illegal spying program on american citizens places the burden of proof upon them.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIf they haven’t been illegally spying, why would they need retroactive immunity in the first place? We KNOW they’ve been spying and there are individuals out there who are brining suit with proof. We have the proof we need right here in their race toward immunity – it’s an admission of guilt or why bother?
November 15th, 2007 at 5:39 pmWe have proof that Bush asked certain telecoms to spy on citizens which is really all we need. We have documentation from the telecom who refused to do so. This isn’t as much about retroactive immunity for the telecoms as it is about retroactive immunity for Bush’s sorry butt.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:40 pmThe ACLU has been doing more recently and notifying Congressman about what they’ve found which is why the heat is on for Bush and the telecoms right now. They don’t want the lawsuits slapped in on them prior to getting immunity.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:41 pmWaltTheMan,
Does that mean that if I say Bush sucks and swallows, or that I would like to see someone fling a broadhead through Bush’s guts, that he may actually get the message?
Well then, I may consider saying that at some time in the future.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:44 pmConstitutional lawyers across this country should be up in arms and uniting to become “american patriots and heroes†when this fascist cabal is thwarted from it’s onward march to totally trashing our constitution.
Comment by Veritas
I should think so…That has got to be a potential windfall for the attorneys. They should be all over this like ‘white on rice’.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:46 pmDoes that mean that if I say Bush sucks and swallows, or that I would like to see someone fling a broadhead through Bush’s guts, that he may actually get the message?
Well then, I may consider saying that at some time in the future.
Comment by nanlichi — November 15, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
Bush has no guts, but you should be careful on what you state otherwise.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:46 pmAt this point in time, life is an open book when one posts on the net or speaks on the phone. Sorry.
Comment by WaltTheMan
Yeah, welcome to Amerikkka. Land of the spied upon.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:48 pmmonitor “foreign-to-foreign” communications involving suspected terrorists.
Ok, sure we don’t have a problem with the “foreign-to-foreign” ones, but why were they spying on “Domestic-to-Domestic” communications. Well, we all know why, and they should be held to account for that abuse of power.
Buck Fush
November 15th, 2007 at 5:49 pm“the nation’s intelligence services do not need to request a court warrant to monitor foreign-to-foreign communications involving suspected terrorists.â€
Methinks the U.S. is violating ALL of the provisions of the U.N. as well as the sovereignty of any country it intrudes upon, terrorist connected or not.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:55 pmHey, veritas (#20)
I already have the plan with my friends – we will dance in the streets, set off fire crackers, and drink champagne on the day that Bush & Co meet justice.
November 15th, 2007 at 5:57 pmI might just be tired here but how can they “monitor foreign-to-foreign communications” anyway? If it’s “foreign” doesn’t that imply outside of this country?
November 15th, 2007 at 6:01 pmOne Word!
IdiotS
November 15th, 2007 at 6:03 pmHere’s how to explain it to your friends and family so they get interested…
The Telcos May Have To Send You A Check For $20,000 If Your Communications Were Spied On!
Since all Americans seem to care about is money this should get their attention.
But the only way to find out if you’re a victim in this crime is if the Telcos are denied immunity. If Congress illegally whitewashes their crime with retroactive we’ll never find out any details.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:07 pm#55, Should’ve explained in my post that the fines could be up to $10,000 per person per wiretap. That’s how I arrived at the modest $20,000 figure!
November 15th, 2007 at 6:09 pm# 55 GREAT I LOVE IT . are you in advertizing ?
November 15th, 2007 at 6:12 pmTake back your democracy and get payed doing it . Sheer genius.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:12 pm#53. I might just be tired here but how can they “monitor foreign-to-foreign communications†anyway? If it’s “foreign†doesn’t that imply outside of this country?…Mary
Due to changes in technology its possible for a call from one foreign country to another foreign country to pass through “hardware” in the United States. This is the ONLY change that needed to be made to FISA. Everyone agreed on this point. Everything other change is unnecessary.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:13 pmoops.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:16 pm#57 freeman. Had an advertising biz for over 10yrs. Wrote sales copy. The very first lesson you learn is its not what you sell but how you sell it.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:17 pmI wonder what connection there is between “domestic surveillance” and some inexplicable votes by prominent Dems. Is it possible that incriminating communications are floating around the RNC?
November 15th, 2007 at 6:41 pmThe very first lesson you learn is its not what you sell but how you sell it.
Comment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda
Absolutely! Don’t sell the steak, sell the ’sizzle’.
November 15th, 2007 at 6:52 pmI’ve found the same thing in my business . Packaging is more important than product . How did I ever get this cynical ?
November 15th, 2007 at 6:57 pmIf I were ted kennedy I’d hire you .
Heard on AirAmerica that not only did AT&T spy on every single customer they have but that they also spliced into the other telecom systems and spied on their customers.
They need to get busted, but because they PAY our representatives PAYOLA they will get off scott free.
Buck Fush
November 15th, 2007 at 6:59 pmAbsolutely! Don’t sell the steak, sell the ’sizzle’.
Comment by StratRat — November 15, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
Or, in the case of U.S. automakers; Don’t sell reliability, sell the warranty.
(NOTE: U.S. automakers have improved since the early eighties. Let’s hope our government follows the same pattern.)
November 15th, 2007 at 6:59 pmI’ve found the same thing in my business . Packaging is more important than product . How did I ever get this cynical ?
If I were ted kennedy I’d hire you .
Comment by freeman — November 15, 2007 @ 6:57 pm
I’ve noticed how similar political advertising is to direct mail/magazine advertising. Karl Rove learned many of his tricks from Richard Viguerie, a direct mail fundraising genius.
November 15th, 2007 at 7:43 pmHey if the telecoms have to pay out money to those in America they illegally allowed the Bush Regime to spy upon, then where do I collect?
November 15th, 2007 at 10:38 pmShame on you.
Every legislator who votes for this POS legislation should be ashamed.
Our forefathers, who gave their lives to protect the sanctity of the privacy of every American, are mortified. [Literally dead in their graves].
You have undone what Patriots foresoke their lives to protect.
You can pass the legislation, but with that, you cannot buy the hearts of Americans. You think that with the passage of time, time heals, and we will forget.
YOU ARE SO WRONG.
Hide in your numbers. You’re disgusting.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:12 amWho voted for immunity:
Post it here, and from now on, that Congressman will be:Senator ___________, D-__, voted for telecom immunity.
We can just address that Congress person by their utter failure.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:18 amWhile you’re at it, after Senator ____________, D/R___, voted for telecom immunity.
. . . Let’s just add to the project . . . who attended Cheney’s energy policy conference? Who attended? What dollar amounts did the attendees make? What pork did the Congressmen get? We’re getting no transparency . . . I believe that in the communiity that is Think Progress, we have the knowledge and ingenuity to figure this all out.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:23 amIt’s been my experience that people who have been unwittingly recruited into promoting a criminal enterprise want an opportunity to speak their peace . . . if you are such a person, I’m setting up an e-mail address that should be in working order on Friday or Saturday. Compose your thoughts and e-mail them to me at rockyroad@msn.com.
I’m a novice, but really want to hear what you have to say. Working on it now.
November 16th, 2007 at 2:32 amShe and Joe Lieberman should get married.
Comment by Jay Randal — November 15, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
————————–
Ever heard of bad sex?
November 16th, 2007 at 2:52 am