British General: Our Presence ‘Instigated’ Violence In Iraq, ‘90 Percent’ Reduction After Withdrawal
British General: Our Presence ‘Instigated’ Violence In Iraq, ‘90 Percent’ Reduction After Withdrawal
After Britain partially withdrew forces from southern Iraq in September, the White House slandered its “closest ally,” claiming “British forces have performed poorly in Basra” and suggested “it’s best that they leave.”
The White House should take notice of what has happened in Basra as British troops have left. According to Maj. Gen. Graham Binns, commander of British forces in Basra, the presence of British troops instigated violence. Now, violence has reportedly dropped to one-tenth that of earlier levels:
The presence of British forces in downtown Basra, Iraq’s second-largest city, was the single largest instigator of violence, Maj. Gen. Graham Binns told reporters Thursday on a visit to Baghdad’s Green Zone.
“We thought, ‘If 90 percent of the violence is directed at us, what would happen if we stepped back?,’” Binns said.
Sectarian tensions in Basra, a predominantly Shiite city, are not as high in other parts of Iraq, but “it has seen major fighting between insurgents and coalition troops.” British Defense Secretary Des Browne observed last month:
The people of that city are no longer subject to the significant level of violence that was directed against the British forces and our allies.
In April, 12 British troops were killed in Iraq in contrast to just 1 in October. Furthermore, “British officials expected a spike in such ‘intra-militia violence’ after they pulled back from the city’s center, and were surprised to find none,” Binns said.
When announcing a further withdrawal in early October, Prime Minister Gordon Brown said Basra was “calmer” since British forces handed over their base in early September. “Indeed, in the last month, there have been five indirect fire attacks on Basra Air Station compared with 87 in July,” he observed.
While the region still sees ongoing volatility, the lesson learned by the British — that they provoked violence instead of quelling it — is one that can be applied to the U.S. presence in Iraq as well.
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What a shock!!! NOT!!
November 16th, 2007 at 3:14 pmThe Brits are way too logical for the ‘Decider’
November 16th, 2007 at 3:15 pmKnowing the BushCo propaganda machine, we will be hearing about the reduction of violence in Basra as evidence that “we’re winning!”.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:16 pmBingo.
Q: Why are we staying?
A: Because there’s violence and insecurity.
Q: So, who are they shooting at?
A: Umm…Us.
Q: So, why are we staying, again?
Dear God, our leaders are morons.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:17 pmThe absolute worst thing that GWB can imagine is withdrawal from Iraq resulting in peace. That’s why he’ll fight tooth & nail to stay there. Better to have U.S. soldiers die in the war then for Bush/Cheney to lose face. So they’ll drag it out until they decide they’ve “won” and then when they withdraw they’ll take credit for the peace… which could have been achieved years earlier if they’d just get the phuck out.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pmDemocrats Unable to Bring Troops Home
That is the title of a current AP story on the wire. Unwilling, they should have said.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pmThis has been obvious for years. But having empirical confirmation of a theory is many times better than the theory itself. This is a very important story and it would be great if it could be dispersed widely, let us hope the msm picks up on it.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:20 pmYes, but proking violence is so much more fun for mental degenerate sociopaths. Almost as good as blowing up little animals with firecrackers.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:22 pmWell, it’s grossly understated in the conventional “wisdom” of the media that most of the people attacking us were ordinary citizens who are fighting the occupation for control of their country. We’re fighting normal people, not al Queda. How many Americans would be labeled “insurgents” if we were to take up arms against an occupying force. You better believe a large percentage of our population would do the same. No more occupation, no more occupiers to fight against…
Get us the hell out of there!
November 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pmWhy does Maj. Gen Graham Binns, Commnader of British troops in Basra, hate our troops?
November 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pm“We should have just turned our heads and let Hussein have his way.”
Shouldn’t your name be ignorant troll? It’s more apt.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:31 pm4,000 American lives.
1,000,000 Iraqi lives.
2,500,000 displaced Iraqis.
5,000 American soldier suicides.
50,000 military divorces.
225,000,000 Americans grieving.
Well, Mr. President, was it all worth it? Do you feel relevant now? Do you even give half a shit about the numbers above? Will you continue to waste American lives & precious resources to perpetuate madness?
Maybe the Brits aren’t the best soldiers, but they’re far more competent than you & your sad administration.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:33 pmYep, looks like it’s time to waterboard the good General and get him back in line.
OT aside: Has anyone at TP noticed today’s marked increase in the number of African-Americans in the traditionally-white areas of our Capitol? (read: the parts where the laws are made and [are supposed to be] enforced) Hadn’t seen anything on here. We do still believe in stopping hate crimes, don’t we?
November 16th, 2007 at 3:34 pmSaw this reported on Fox News this morning (damn car dealership TV with a channel that cannot be changed), and they rather quickly brought on an “expert” (or maybe it was just a correspondent) led by the hostess “but this wouldn’t work in the rest of Iraq, would it?” to which the response was something along the lines of “heavens no, eternal war, yada yada yada”…
November 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmmy comment was in response to ralph, not the crazy leftist ranter
November 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pmWOW that’s quite a statement.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:38 pmWell, that just goes to show what happens when the people who are being oppressed no longer feel oppressed. It’s that old burr in the side. The British are removing the burr and the people in that area are no longer feeling like they have no control over their city. I’m willing to bet that the same thing would happen in Baghdad if we were to turn over control of the city to the people who live there and have claim to the city. We certainly don’t. We are an occupier and nothing more.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:40 pmWe copy all of Britain’s best TV shows, maybe we should try copying their war strategies as well.
No maybe’s about it.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:42 pmNotice how Bush’s Poodle hasn’t barked since they let him off his leash?
November 16th, 2007 at 3:43 pmCold hard left?
November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmThat is the title of a current AP story on the wire. Unwilling, they should have said.
Comment by Menehune
They are not unwilling, they are unable. And why are they unable? Could it have something to do with the Republicans filibustering their attempts to bring the troops home or Bush vetoing bills that will bring the troops home? Nah…it must be Clinton’s fault.
As long as the Republicans continue to obstruct the Democrats attempts to bring our troops home, there isn’t much more that the Democrats can do. Except for not even considering funding bills. But if they do that, then the Right Wing Noise Machine will start screaming about how the Democrats are deserting the troops in Iraq and are going to get them all killed. Of course their pea brains can’t imagine that if Bush brought them home with the money he has left, they won’t get killed. Bush could care less about our troops being killed. All he cares about is his ego and his pocketbook.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:44 pmComment by cold_hard_left — November 16, 2007 @ 3:28 pm
Another RNC troll pretending to be a liberal. Do they really think we are so stupid that we can’t see through their ploys?
Let’s freeze this one out real fast. Just ignore him and allow him to rant to himself. If we validate him, he will probably stick around.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:49 pmAddendum… I assume they have been instructed to have the word “left” or “progressive” in their moniker so that we will be fooled. The RNC Troll machine are the fools. They are easy to see through.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:50 pmGordon Brown considered challenging Bush to a duel of wits, but decided
he just couldn’t fight an unarmed man.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:51 pmIf we validate him, he will probably stick around. -BB
With that inane rant I think he invalidated himself already. The fact is that this Freedom operation was about finding WMD and toppling Saddam. Those things are done. 300,000 Iraqis are supposedly trained and they apparently wont stand up until we redeploy.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pmIf we were invaded for no good reason, I do believe we would fight back just as the Iraqi’s are doing.
We won’t be pulling out of Iraq till all the oil is gone, don’t bet on the next president to do it (Hillary), she is just Republican Lite. With her statements about Iran last night at the debates you can guarantee we will not be out of Iraq for quite a while.
I’ll vote for a dem no matter what though, we cannot afford any more repukian scum doing anymore damage to our country.
Buck Fush
November 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pmAddendum… I assume they have been instructed to have the word “left†or “progressive†in their moniker so that we will be fooled. The RNC Troll machine are the fools. They are easy to see through.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 16, 2007 @ 3:50 pm
When you think about it, not too many of us non-trolls have “left” or “progressive” in our handles, but there are a few. Leftside Annie, Lefty Patriot, and I’m sure a few more — but they usually hang around long enough that we’ve gotten to know them.
November 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pmHAHA,
TP fails to mention the US stepped in when the Brits left. The US is what created a better atmosphere.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pmmore like Hard left cold.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:02 pmThe Troll rant sounds like “Usual Left”, who must have gotten kicked for spamming the site.
The RNC just gives them another e-mail account to continue harassing us.
Their rants sure a stupid though, guess they think they are cute and cleaver for some reason.
Buck Fush
November 16th, 2007 at 4:04 pmWho controls now south of Iraq after years of bloody war?
November 16th, 2007 at 4:06 pmThe Shiite Militias of course..they are fighting now among themselves to consolidate power.
The British came to one conclusion that :”we are part of the problem in southern Iraq…let’s leave Iraq”.
The Iraqi Shiite militias filled the vacuum.
England spent billions of dollars and lives lost to come to this expected and certain conclusion.
This democratic experiment was a daydream. Cheney, Scowcroft and Bush Sr. knew that Iraq would become unmanageable. Why do the Republicans think that things would be different today?
November 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmI always thought bu$hler is petrified of peace breaking out if we leave. How very embarrassing. Mortifying. And what an asskick way for the Iraqis to get at least psychological revenge on the foolish little madman.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmThe RNC just gives them another e-mail account to continue harassing us.
Naw, they probably use free web-based email accounts, lots of those out there to be had
November 16th, 2007 at 4:09 pm2,500,000 displaced Iraqis.
Comment by Zimzone — November 16, 2007 @ 3:33 pm
ZZ,
November 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pmThe latest numbers from the UN cite 4,500,000 displaced Iraqis.
The Troll rant sounds like “Usual Leftâ€, who must have gotten kicked for spamming the site.
Comment by Buckie Boy — November 16, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
You are correct. The chl troll appeared bare minutes after the UL troll got extirpated last night. Please flag and ignore.
BTW the RX2 troll is lying, again. The Brits turned over the Basra area to Iraqis. This is so well documented it deserves no further comment.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:15 pmNaw, they probably use free web-based email accounts, lots of those out there to be had
Comment by Xisithrus
Now, if TP would just ban their IP, that would be effective. But they use an e-mail address (easy to get a new one) as an identifier. I often wonder where TP gets their IT help. With how long it took them to even come up with a registration system, I suspect they are getting their help from some local JC. Hopefully my contribution will help them come up with a better registration system.
But, all in all, this site is a lot less cluttered with trolls than it was before the registration system, so thank goodness for small favors.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:16 pmNow, if TP would just ban their IP, that would be effective -BB
I agree, but they are probably using proxy servers which issue different IP numbers at each signon.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pmComment by pete — November 16, 2007 @ 4:15 pm
Yeah, I went hunting for US troop levels in Basrah after the Brits left and couldn’t find anything.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:28 pmHow could you possibly disagree? Comment by cold_hard_left — November 16, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Cause your trying to paint people into a group of your making. I never post such things.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:32 pmMy post was a simple cut and paste of posts made by regulars to this site, as well as quotes from Liberal Democrat leaders.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 16, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Hmm… copying and pasting quotes and passing them off as one’s own thoughts… seems to me there’s a word for that…
November 16th, 2007 at 4:34 pmAnyone looking for info on hits (Also known as Jake) should read this link.?.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pmwalttheMan,
Thanks for your update.
wow…that’s nearly 20% of the entire country. (4.5M displaced)
If it were the USA, it would be 60M people.
Another fine mess you got us into, Bush.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pmAnyone looking for info on hits (Also known as Jake) should read this :
I have Jake’s bio:
He worked as a crash dummy for the NASA Rocket Sled program.
After each time he crashed into a 16 meter granite barrier at orbital speeds, they would scrape his brains off of the base of the sled into a bucket, turn him upside down, put a funnel into each nostril and pour them back in.
He used to slosh when he nodded or shoke his head. The kind of sound that you would hear when you shake up a container of orange juice or paint thinner.
Every once in a while, in the past, the air relief valve at the back of Jake’s head malfunctioned and a little grey matter dripped out. That has not reoccurred since November, 2006.
Jake’s golden retriever has entered some posts when he (Jake, not the dog) passed out. On those occasions, the posts seem more rational, hence the apparent schizoid behavior.
Jake had a brain scan in December, 2006 – they found nothing.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:40 pmI can copy many hateful things from libertarian, freeper sites and apply them to you but that wouldn’t be right, nor true, now would it CHL?
November 16th, 2007 at 4:41 pm“But, all in all, this site is a lot less cluttered with trolls than it was before the registration system, so thank goodness for small favors.”
I try to not feed the trolls but I find an occasional one amusing to observe. One thing that is demonstrated over and over is that when they come into these progressive threads they display such intellectually inferior tools that it is difficult not to think of them in condescending terms.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:41 pmSo would the chympco cabal learn anything from this.
Most likely not.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:42 pmMaybe we’re looking at this the wrong way. We see peace as a good thing, a condition to be pursued.
If Bush sees war as a condition to be pursued, and peace as something to be avoided (and there’s plenty of evidence that he thinks this way), then his actions the past seven years seem perfectly rational.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:52 pmThe “perpetual enemy” is one of the oldest tricks of statecraft. It’s been used by despots, weaklings, and fools, since the dawn of civilization. The Chimp fits all three descriptions.
November 16th, 2007 at 4:52 pmpete,
November 16th, 2007 at 4:56 pmYou left out bed wetters.
NPR reported this morning that much of the Iraqi insurgency has moved north to Mosul…Iraq’s second largest city ( 3 million).
Here , the friction is between Kurds and Suni’s. In the nearby , oil rich, city of Kirkuk, a resolution to the oil settlement has gone nowhere. Both the Kurds and the Suni’s think the oil belongs to them. The Govt. has been unable to reach a compromise to this explosive conflict.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:07 pmpete,
You left out bed wetters.
Comment by WaltTheMan — November 16, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Thanx. I wasn’t trying for a complete list but that one deserves inclusion.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:12 pmIts hard work draining the US Treasury into the corp. coffers of GOP donors and would be harder without this occupation. So the occupation must continue until the USA is completely broke and/or the military is completely broken.
November 16th, 2007 at 5:30 pmIs Bushie planning a quick trip to Baghdad this thanksgiving to present a plastic turkey to the troops? After all, it’s so safe there now.
November 16th, 2007 at 6:31 pmMr. Bush should announce Troop redeployments on Thanksgiving. Giving the Country something to be truly thankful for. Not gonna happen, but I can dream.
November 16th, 2007 at 7:08 pmMy post was a simple cut and paste of posts made by regulars to this site, as well as quotes from Liberal Democrat leaders. How could you possibly disagree?
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 16, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
Just another in your long line of lies and slander. You did no such thing; you made it up from whole cloth. You have nothing to fight with, since your side is losing everything they stole, so you must create a fantasy that is indicative of the wingnut mindset, perfect projection, in fact. Not a single line in your bullshit screed is cut and pasted.
November 16th, 2007 at 9:25 pmThis is a good lessen to be learned, but Bush never learns anything!
November 16th, 2007 at 10:25 pmIf a couple of foreign powers like Russia and China invaded and occupied the US based on a pack of lies–with the real reason being to take our resources and have permanent bases here, would that instigate violence by insurgent Americans against them? If the invaders/occupiers left, would that increase or decrease the violence? Put yourself in their shoes. Iraq did nothing to the US or Britain to deserve this invasion and occupation. How are they supposed to react?
November 16th, 2007 at 10:39 pmRichardson said in last night’s debate that, when polled, 65% of Iraqis agree with attacks on our troops.
November 16th, 2007 at 10:50 pmi wonder what dubby thinks he’s got
November 17th, 2007 at 12:16 amin his imaginary box…
…
But provoking more violence is exactly why we are still there!
Ya gotta just love it when they say “But aren’t you glad we got rid of Hussein?” Hussein was just a pimple on the ass of the world.
It’s kind of like going to the doctor, and he says “You have a pimple on your ass, but I can remove it, if you want.” So you tell him to go ahead and remove it. Afterwards, the doctor says “Mission accomplished, that pimple is gone.”.
“But you owe a million dollars for the operation, and by the way, now you also have a rash on your ass that will never go away, and it will cost you $100,000 a year for mediciation to keep the rash from spreading.”
“But aren’t you glad that pimple is gone?”
November 17th, 2007 at 8:05 am“He may have been evil, but he was better than Bushie.” # 11 regarding Hussein.
-In 1987-88 alone, Hussein killed nearly 100,000 kurds. His relatives (particularly his son, who he gave power) used to march into wedding ceremonies and walk off with the bride, who he would rape and sometimes not even bother to return to the groom. Hussein allowed and supported this. In Abu Ghraib, where we love to mock the perverted half dozen American soldiers, Hussein had over 4,000 people executed, over 200 of which were political prisoners, and had about 160 women beheaded. Hussein has had around 40 of his OWN relatives put to death. If you don’t support Bush, that in itself is one thing, but only a person as spoiled and ignorant as the wealth of our country has allowed us to become can say something as vapid and heartless as that. What you have said spits in the face of thousands who have suffered. I know the response I get from this will only be angry rants more than likely, but I hope everyone here, regardless of how they feel about current events or what “side” they are on, realizes the simple fact that, as a nation, we are pitifully lacking in common sense and critical thinking, regardless of whether we are conservative or liberal, pro war or not. I will respect an argument from any side, even if I happen to disagree with it (and a good many of my friends have great debates in this way), as long as that argument is made from sound knowledge, factual proof, intelligent and well thought out reasoning and deep personal insight. These matters are NOT jokes. It does NOT absolve any of you of your responsibilities to bash Bush when something unfavorable happens in this country. You are held equally responsible in the eyes of others around the world as the President, and if you can’t support him than you ought to be educating yourself and taking ACTION to stop further events that you don’t agree with from happening. If you hate Bush so much, why has he been elected into office twice? Did you vote for him, and then recant? Or did you simply not show up to the polls? …and DON’T tell me “oh, the election was rigged, its the Bush dynasty” and all that nonsense. If the election was rigged, than all of you who feel cheated by our government should be ashamed of yourselves for not doing all in your power to excercise your constitutional rights that would allow you, by any means necessary, to rectify the injustice. If it wasn’t rigged (or rigged any more so than any election if that’s the case), then what you are in effect doing by lazily sitting by and cursing our government is condoning its action and attemping to remove yourself from guilt.
…and yes, the enemies of Iraq are shooting at us. Yes, they were responding violently to the British. Does anyone here know WHY? It wasn’t because we are THERE…they hate us all anyway. Its because we refuse to subscribe to their extremist values; because we believe in a society the allows freedom, like freedom of religious choice (including the freedom you all have and abuse to bash the government, which nearly no other nation would allow you to do). The predominant enemies of the Iraqis are the Iranians. The leader of Iran believes that waging war to kill all who are not of his faith will bring about the final Imam, thus invoking the end of the world and eternal paradise for the believers. He won’t stop trying to kill us because we left Iraq. He’ll momentarily amuse himself with absorbing a new nation and growing more powerful, but he won’t stop hating us and all the rest of the western world. The Iraqis are poorly trained, and without proper weaponry to fend off multiple enemies at once. And due to the political vacuum left by Hussein’s death, MANY insurgent groups are greedily searching a nation to rule. If we simply leave NOW, immediately, with no one left to guard the government of Iraq in its infant stage, we will be leaving thousands of people at the mercy of some of the most bloodthirsty maniacs the world has ever known. The ENTIRE government, and their families, will be overthrown, tortured, publicly shamed, and murdered. So to say “bring the troops home NOW” is not an acceptable option. Yes, the war probably should never have happened, yes, its become a series of expensive and problematic blunders, but unfortunately, it’s too late to stop that now. We can’t leave and pretend it never happened. So if there’s another immediate alternative, then by all means speak up and take action in our government to help save our soldiers and the lives of thousands of Iraqi people who are suffering to attempt to live in a world that has a fraction of our comfort and stability. But to say “lets just get out” isn’t acceptable at all. It isn’t the president’s job to run America, it’s all of ours. After all, the government in itself was only ever made to serve its people. No matter what “side” you are on, we are all on the same side-the Americans. No matter what happens in the next coming years, or what has happened in the last, we are ALL equally responsible. So ALL of us, including you, me, and those in power, must struggle to learn and understand our own shortcomings and flaws of the past, and take action to shape the course of history in a more positive way.
November 17th, 2007 at 7:54 pm