Hume: Bush Is Bringing The Troops Home, Time To ‘Declare Victory’ In Iraq
Hume: Bush Is Bringing The Troops Home, Time To ‘Declare Victory’ In Iraq
On Fox News Sunday this morning, Brit Hume attacked Senate Democrats for “setting a goal that all U.S. combat soldiers withdraw from Iraq by December 15, 2008,” claiming that they have an “aura of unreality” because they’re trying “to force troop withdrawals, impervious to the fact that troop withdrawals have already begun”:
This whole debate has this aura of unreality about it, at least on the Democratic side, because they keep talking about events in Iraq that do not comport with the reality on the ground over there. You hear it again and again. You hear it in the attitude they have, you know, they’re going to force troop withdrawals, impervious to the fact that troop withdrawals have already begun. It’s happening.
NPR’s Juan Williams called Hume on his false spin, pointing out that the reduction in troops is only returning to pre-surge levels:
You’re making the case that troop withdrawals are starting now, but they’re troop withdrawals given that a surge was put in place this year that took troop levels to a new high. So it’s not really much of a withdrawal at all.
Unfazed, Hume later told Williams that it’s time he declared “victory” in Iraq. “The things you have been calling for have largely been met,” said Hume. “In terms of violence is down, troops are coming out, war’s winding down. Isn’t that victory on your terms?” Watch it:
As Williams noted, in the context of the surge, the withdrawals to which Hume is referring bear no relation to the type of withdrawal pushed for by war critics and the majority of Americans. In fact, as the Washington Post recently reported, troop levels were the highest they’ve ever been this past week with 175,000 soldiers in Iraq.
In reality, the return to pre-surge troop levels has more to do with the fact that the Army is overstretched then it has to do with any sort of progress on the ground. Just this week, Army Chief of Staff General George Casey told the Senate Armed Forces Committee that “the current demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply” because of Bush’s open-ended commitment in Iraq.
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Bush has his “mission accomplished” which was to pass his failed Iraq mess to the next president. Hume is a fool to even bring up Iraq–it is a loser for Republicans on every point. War, death, and debt are now the Republican values–Guiliani has made “conservatives” set abortion, gay-bashing, and guns aside.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:26 pmI saw someone the other day say that Bush is bringing a brigade home because of the success of the surge. What bullshit. That particular brigade was scheduled to come home no matter what. They were beyond their 15 months already.
So what we will hear now is that every brigade that is brought home, even though it was a scheduled rotation, is because of the success of the surge. Propaganda pure and simple.
I also heard the other day that the reason why there is a drop in US soldier deaths are twofold. The first is that we are not sending our soldiers out on patrol any longer, thereby not exposing them to roadside bombs. The second is that we are paying both Sunni and Shia sheiks to NOT kill our soldiers. Now how about that for a solution to violence. Pay cold hard cash to people to not kill us. How long can we keep that up? And is that the reason why our monthly cost for maintaining our troops in Iraq has risen so drastically in the last six months?
November 18th, 2007 at 12:27 pmAfter four years and untold amounts death and destruction, Bush has yet to convince America to give a shit about Iraq–the only sacrifice is being made by the soldiers and their families. Bush is a failed leader. Why do you think Russert and Matthews are so eager to discuss Hillary Clinton’s position on illegals and driver licenses–it’s because the right loses every Iraq debate. The fact the Hume even mentions Iraq shows even the lunatic right is weary of it.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:34 pmBrit Hume, yet to be honored Media Putz: http://www.mediaputz.com/honorees.html
Twenty-one Media Putz awardees, and Hume has still not made the list!
AMAZING!
Something should be done to get Hume the award he so richly deserves, as soon as my nomination of little Wolfie Blitzer, Republican Talking-Point Reader, gets him his much-deserved award!
So many Media Putzes, so little time! {:-)
November 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pmAs the whole point of the “surge” was supposedly to give the Iraqi government “space and time” for national reconcilation, the surge has been an abysmal disaster. As for the other so-called successes…fewer American causalties due to NOT so many patrols and more airstrikes. The Sunni warlords who have come onto the coalition’s (American’s) side, they’ve been upfront about going after the Shite government once the more extreme Sunni’s are driven out. All we’ve done is help to arm both sides of the civil war. In the meantime, hell has broken out in Pakistan whose dictator we’ve continued to support, despite OBL’s presence in the country. Afghanistan is shaky as hell, and this administration threaten’s Iran. Crazy. That whole region is going to explode. Whether our continuing presence there delays or accelerates it is questionable. The Bush administration opened Pandora’s box and I fear that the entire world will suffer the reprecussions.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:42 pmThere is too much clock left for the Republican scum to run out before next election.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:43 pm“Bush has yet to convince America to give a shit about Iraq–the only sacrifice is being made by the soldiers and their families. ”
Comment by Above the Clouds — November 18, 2007 @ 12:34 pm
Not to mention the untold suffering and sacrifice the Iraqi PEOPLE have endured at the hands of this “failed leader!”
Impeachment time for this failed “leader”/WAR CRIMINAL, but SiCKO DiCKO FIRST!
November 18th, 2007 at 12:44 pmMaybe Hume will invite to his show newly minted “journalist” Karl Rove to explain his amazing feat of turning a President with an approval rating of 88% to a failed lame duck with a 29% approval rating. Maybe Iraq had something to do with it?
November 18th, 2007 at 12:47 pmBrit has it partly right; it is time to declare victory for the Dems, the oversight committees and Americans who oppose this ill-conceived war of choice by a president who was not elected by the populace in 2000 and only retained power in 2004 by a wide-spread voter corruption and intimidatation program orchestrated by the GOP, the neocons and agents of the current administration.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:51 pmUnfazed, Hume later told Williams that it’s time he declared “victory†in Iraq. “The things you have been calling for have largely been met,†said Hume. “In terms of violence is down, troops are coming out, war’s winding down. Isn’t that victory on your terms?â€
What an idiot Hume is. “The things you have been calling for have largely been met”. Really? Has the Iraqi government gotten it’s act together? Have the deaths of Iraqi’s gone down (according to the US, yes, according to the rest of the world, no)? The only reason why US deaths are down is because we are not sending our soldiers out on roads with IED’s and because we are paying big bucks to the Sheiks to not kill our soldiers. If Bush considers that a victory, it’s OK with me as long as he brings all our soldiers home.
November 18th, 2007 at 12:53 pmHezbollah and Israel preparing for war.
Pakistan on the brink of collapse.
Turkey ready to invade Iraq.
Russia and China standing behind Iran.
Deaths in Iraq reduced from 2,000 a month to under a 1,000.
Sounds like mission accomplished time to me!
-GSD
November 18th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThe “Surge” has little to do with the lower death tolls on both sides!
November 18th, 2007 at 1:07 pmMuqtada al-Sadr the Shiite Leader called for a 6 months cease-fire, on Aug 29,2007. The cease-fire is the main reason that deaths are down across the board, not anything that has been done by Bush!
Hume is an embarrassment to honest hard-working whores.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:09 pmThe only real, pesky problem Bush and the Republicans have is the fact that it was Osama bin Laden and not Saddam Hussein who killed Americans on US soil.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmInteresting, Mr. Hume, but I just read a day or two ago, that our USA troop levels in Iraq are now at their highest ever, 170,000. Plus another 170,000 or so mercenaries…
And please note for future reference: corporate Hillary is the best Republican candidate for President…
November 18th, 2007 at 1:14 pmDear Mr. Hume,
The only people you have to convince that there has been a victory in Iraq are the 4+million currently displaced Iraqi’s and the additional 50,000+ Iraqi’s displaced monthly. Do that, and no one could dare to argue with you.
Of course, you’d have to convince all those displaced souls that should they return to their homes that they wont be rounded up and killed; and to do that you’ll probably have to arrange an increase in the protection money going to insurgents, to not kill Amercan troops, to also include a cesation of ethnic cleansing.
Then there’s the minor issue of no electricity, no clean water, no sewage treatment, no employment, no health care, cholera outbreaks, and the like.
I tell you what, though; the State Department is looking for a few good volunteers. Why don’t you and Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Coulter, Hannity, Beck, Morgan, and Malkin go over to Iraq and take charge of all the media over there. That way you can easily inform the displaced Iraqis that all is now well and they can all now return home.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:15 pmGood luck and be sure to let us all know how it goes.
Brit obviously knows just how ignorant his audience is. How many of them would realize that subtracting from a sum that has been added to only gets you back to the original sum, not to some lesser quantity. Hume pretends freely that the inaccurate conclusions of idiots are perfectly valid points to use vs. his “guest”, and knows his audience won’t take their socks off so they can count their way to the truth.
Righties can’t be expected to understand the arithmetic of “the surge”, or to remember what the actual numbers were/are. Idiot math does not recognize the permanence of any value, it merely provides numbers to be used when one wishes to appear less stupid than one in fact is.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:16 pm…And the sole progressive Grinch on the panel, Juan Williams’ balls grew three times that day.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:16 pmYou can count on FAUXNOIZ for your weekly dose of bullsh$t. What a bunch of moronic losers.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:25 pmI thought the WAR CRIMINAL had declared “mission acomplished” years ago… hahahahaha! No no, but really, what kind of ‘reality check’ Hume is talking about? stockpiles of WMD? connection between 9/11 and Iraq? Greeted as libarators? Aluminium Tubes? Progress is beeing made? More progress being made? The Iraq Money that the USA stole?! Abu Graib? 3867? You know… when a country is led by WAR CRIMINALS, and turn FACIST, there is no one that can claim reality!
November 18th, 2007 at 1:34 pmBrtitt Hume, rhymes with Shit Fume, same meaning, lots of stinky hot air.
-GSD
November 18th, 2007 at 1:44 pmFoxy proposal…
Of course, Fox declared victory from day one…of this war. Selling the war was the top priority on Murdock’s Fox agenda.
Where is the surprise here …by Brit…?
November 18th, 2007 at 1:45 pmI thought Commander Codpiece already declared victory.
November 18th, 2007 at 1:51 pmNicely done, Juan Williams.
Steady, forceful and articulate while in the heart of a hornet’s nest. You deserve big kudos.
What is up with Fox’s Fair, Balanced three-on-one gang bangs?!!? God they make me sick.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:06 pmBritt Hume has zero credibility left to anything he utters. He’s a known Bush media-whoremeister who presents nothing but spin and lies. He belongs on Faux news because it’s a network of spin and lies. He and his cohorts on Fox News are the reason why there’s a massive boycott of Fox News programming in this country.
When people lend more credence to John Stewart’s Daily Show than these idiot-puppets on Fox news, then they know it’s time to throw in the towel. They’ve lost their reputation as a legitimate, honorable, and honest news program with americans.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:09 pmIf you really feel that Fox News is nothing more than a reichwing propaganda machine, invest in a “Fox Blocker” and then you will have Fox-No-More!
November 18th, 2007 at 2:10 pmThe patterns of propaganda during wars based on lies are very similar.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:18 pmSee the film that I believe sc mom posted a few days ago.
‘War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death’
There are clips from president to president that are eerily similar.
There are also clips showing how our media, over decades, sells it using the same techniques.
It will prove to you many things, one of which is that there is no ‘news’ in the
U.S. to speak of, it’s 99 percent propaganda.
At the end there is part of a MLK speech that is just incredible.
I cannot understand why Juan is allowed to speak on Ailes’ airwaves! As Wallace utters near the end “alright alright we’ve heard this all before”, there can be no room for the truth on Fixed news.
I don’t know how many of you have had a chance to see Redacted yet, but you should. I’ve got mixed feelings about much of it, particularly the re use of rape ala Casualties of War as the grounding metaphor for loss of innocence via evil american animus, but the merits out way the downside. It’s enraging in a time of outrage fatigue, and there is a difference. Sort of Sex War and Videotape meets Joseph Heller.
As Progressives we are going to have to face some inconvenient facts. Two that come to mind today are:
1) The war will go on in one form or another for decades. The Sunni Shī‘a rift is 13 centuries old, so our behavior is going to inspire violence long after we all gone and later generations learn to love to hate our barbaric deeds.
2) Kucinich is right. The lack of a congressional spine to Impeach and Convict the executives will result in a wider and infinitely more devastating conflict.
Satan awaits the arrival of his minions! All hail Dick and his shrubpuppet.
November 18th, 2007 at 2:54 pmGo a little easy on poor Brit, guys. When you see everything you’re worked and prayed for your whole life turn to total Sh*t in just 7 short years, you NEED the comfort and security of your delusions just to get out of bed every day. Sarcasm/off…
November 18th, 2007 at 3:25 pmFine we won. Things never better in Iraq. The war to end all wars. Al Queda that wasn’t there in the first place is on the run. Syria and Jordan agree–no more hundreds of thousands of refugees. Anbar is cool and all the internally displaced from Fallujah are returning to their furnished habitats. The Bagdhad neighborhoods are reintegrating. Oil production up, services just can’t be improved upon. Government the foundation of an old Saddam statue. Freedom is on the march. Get NYC ready for a confetti victory parade for returning troops. No possible investigations by foreign entities or world courts about illegal invasions or torture. No more abrogation of the 4th Admendment via at&t, habeous corpus returned. Brite Hume takes off his mask and Bagdhad Bob becomes the chief political observer at Fox News.
November 18th, 2007 at 4:06 pmMany people, not just Fox News viewers, don’t fully understand the need for impeachment of Cheney and then Bush.
I am writing a series of three articles that put forward the reality of that need in terms of world opinion, the crimes of this administration, and ultimately the danger of allowing this kind of behavior to continue unchecked.
This is the first.
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/so-impeachment-will-make-the-us-look-bad-to-the-rest-of-the-world-is-that-so/
November 18th, 2007 at 4:07 pmIs britt bush’s messenger?
November 18th, 2007 at 6:31 pmAh, but bush is just a fool.
November 18th, 2007 at 6:36 pmI don’t like to talk like this but Hume is a retard.
November 18th, 2007 at 7:28 pm…I have to agree, by all of our standards, the war in Iraq is completed in it’s mission. And, as we almost all agree, the war probably should never have been started in the first place, or at the very least was poorly timed and executed given the situations at hand at the time of the outbreak. There are those who say that we should all just leave immediately. Most of the democratic party is now unanimously calling for immediate troop withdrawals. I, however, sometimes wonder if the real motive for this is due to deeply thought desires to bring our world into a better and happier future (or at least to clean up a mess that’s been made), or to simply find one more way of attacking and humiliating Bush. …and for the record, the article is slightly misleading. That the majority of Americans want immediate withdrawal is not accurate; it is the majority of POLLED Americans – those of you who are educated in the peculiarities of statistics will understand the discrepancy that lies therein. To those of you who call for IMMEDIATE troop withdrawals, I urge you to seriously consider the following, among the other points that you have used in debate.
After Hussein’s death, a political vacuum was created that has now left every insurgent group with enough guns to raid the cities of Iraq mad with ambition to aquire a nation to rule. Iraq’s cheif enemy in the establishment of democracy is their neighbors, the Iranians, who are fundamentalist Islamics, and who, as per their fanatical religious beliefs, HATE America along with the rest of the western world. In recent times, Iran has found alliance and support from Russia and China (those history buffs among you can easily remember all the unfriendly memories America has had with them), and the resulting alliance has left a wickedly unstable political climate in the areas surrounding Iraq. The British presence was mainly there to show support for us, as a nation. Their withdrawal was only on the grounds that their presence, in addition to America, was overtly threatening to the enemies of Iraq, making them feel ganged up on, which in turn was spurring greater and more desperate attacks. It was with this in mind that the British withdrew their forces. Frankly, their being there was only setting a frightening foundation for a potential outbreak of yet another World War. Now America alone is present in Iraq. The newly formed Iraqi government has very little structured as of yet; they are still in their infancy. Because of this, they are militarily quite poorly trained and equipped, and are now facing hordes of various enemies, most of which are brutal, merciless, and bent on destroying Iraq and claim it as their own. The effect of our IMMEDIATE withdrawal, in light of the situation, seems to me to be twofold. In the short term, the ONLY possible outcome for the brave souls in the Iraqi government is death. Those people who, knowing the impossible dangers of standing for their political beliefs against the fundamentalist and fanatical groups of people neighboring them have decided to stand strong and attempt to forge a new world in which their children can live in justice will be suddenly without ANY military support except for their own, which is ill matched for thier dillema. After all, even WITH us there, the military force is streched thin. They will be overthrown, defeated completley. Their families will be gathered with them, publicly shamed, tortured, and murdered. Innocent people by the THOUSANDS will be slaughtered. This is not speculation, it is based on how extremist factions have ALWAYS acted when they seize power, everywhere in the world. In the long term, those fanatics that call for the abolition of the infidels, which by the way means US, will have a nation with which to grow more openly powerful. Iran, Russia, China and a potentially newly created terrorist nation will be united against the rest of the western world. Whether that would lead to another World war is unknown, but it certainly wouldnt be good.
Ironically, in all likelihood immediate troop withdrawals would lead to FAR greater casualties than continuing the war. The catch is that it IS indeed time to end this war. So the question is, if troop withdrawal is not acceptable immediatley and the war’s continuation is both too expensive and too unrealistic to do, how do we REALLY solve this problem? The situation is dire, and we must ALL take action to educate ourselves and shape the course of history in a positive way. The American dollar is falling in value, its people poorly knowledgeable about the rest of the world, and, like it or not, without any shortage of enemies who would love to see us fail and fall apart. It is no longer a concern of LEFT or RIGHT. We are ALL Americans, and will ALL live to see terrible times ahead if we do not do what’s necessary to settle the instability surrounding us. I hope that this small gesture may inspire those around you to see the sense of urgency that we all live in.
November 18th, 2007 at 7:48 pmI hope that this small gesture may inspire those around you to see the sense of urgency that we all live in.
Comment by LawlessMP — November 18, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Nice bunch of bullshit with no answers or solutions from you. America is going the same way the USSR did, destroyed by hubris and sociopathy. Iraq is lost, and all of that violence is going to happen, sooner or later. it already is happening, and we can do nothing about it, and are doing nothing about it. Millions, dead, displaced, homeless, marginalized. Your solution is to bring us down with it? Not so good.
November 18th, 2007 at 8:23 pm#36 Comment by LawlessMP — November 18, 2007 @ 7:48 pm
Your whole post is a load of hooey. Frankly, it is way too much bother to refute your opinions here as it would have to be done line by line. There is almost nothing in this rant (and that is all that it amounts to) that is not off base.
I suggest you go back to the beginning and consider the fact that we had no right to invade Iraq and have no right to be there now. That fact alone makes all your opinions above useless and moot.
November 18th, 2007 at 8:27 pmExcuse me, we won the war several years ago: Saddam was deposed, and tried & hanged. Elections were held, and a “sovereign” govenment was installed. What we are undertaking now (no pun intended, considering the numbers of deaths, since our victoty), is an “occupation” – the concept of “winning” an occupation doesn’t compute. Time to leave.
November 18th, 2007 at 9:55 pmAll talking heads on FAUXNOIZ are retarded bootlickers and asskissers of the thugs in the crime family…what does that say of those who watch and listen to them? They are the dumbasses who Dubya mumbles his moronic blabber to. Turn the channel, get a life.
November 18th, 2007 at 10:10 pmI don’t like to talk like this but Hume is a retard.
Comment by Cactus Jack1 — November 18, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
and i could swear that chris wallace is really the rev. lovejoy from the simpsons
November 18th, 2007 at 11:44 pmThis bogus point of view by Hume and Faux is political theater for a dumbed down consuming public. Democrats and Rethugs are one and the same these days, this theater is for entertainment purposes nothing more. The war is lost, the repercussions are just now hitting this country and will for years to come. Bush is a miserable failure.
November 19th, 2007 at 12:27 amI’m glad the Iraqi government is now able to be a self sustaining, legitimate broker of the various interests in Iraq.
Oh, what? They aren’t any such thing? Well, now that sucks.
What? Our alliance with the Sunni tribal chiefs undercuts their authority? Woe.
November 19th, 2007 at 12:28 am>The second is that we are paying both Sunni and Shia sheiks to NOT kill >our soldiers.
Yeah..the amounts are equivalent to billions of dollars here in america.. trolls like bigfoot and micheal have NO problem with us paying 25 million dollars to a sunni chieftan who used to be directing attacks against us, but heaven forbid we spend money on sick children here….
what possible reason would betrayus have for continuing associating with the political parriah Chalabi? most likely to learn tips on how to bribe the people of iraq..
the “surge” strategy in iraq has been, first and foremost, a surge of money.
November 19th, 2007 at 1:41 amits like fighting illegal immigration by paying mexicans not to jump the border fence…gets temporary results, but what happens when you stop paying for results?
I’ve read many media folk claim the surge is working. I hope it’s true, even though it would not validate the war.
However, if I were a creep fighting America, I would stop the violence when there are many troops, then as soon as America started withdrawing troops, I would increase the violence. You’d make the pro-war people look like fools, ala “Mission Accomplished”. And if America sent back more troops, then you’re succeeding in draining America’s resources. Then I’d relocate the fight. Strategy 101.
BTW, violence is down also because so many refugees have fled.
November 19th, 2007 at 2:16 amComment by judyinnm — November 18, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Excuse me, we won the war several years ago
In my mind we did not “win” anything, because there was no “war” to win. We invaded Iraq, illegally, and are illegally occupying another soverign country now. This is the reason to get out, not because Bush and the MSM dolts say that we won the “war”.
November 19th, 2007 at 3:07 amDrew Pearson must be turning over in his grave! Brit Hume is the newsman’s equivalent of standing on a street corner in gold lame torreador pants, tank top, and high red boots flagging down passing John’s and Joe’s to peddle wares for the “bosses.”
November 19th, 2007 at 7:00 amNo matter who is president, we are going to continue the war on terror, and our military will be in Iraq for years to come, even if at lower numbers than now.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 19, 2007 @ 7:56 am
there is only a war on truth, bigmouth. terror is not an enemy. your ranting and lying just paints you and yours as ignorant tools of the rightwing war machine, which is in it for the money only. the surge is a cruel joke, and hasn’t worked at all. troop deaths are up over all previous years; I know that makes you happy. All of the blather you have posted about Iraqis stepping up is completely unencumbered by truth of any sort; in fact the opposite is taking place. Too bad the truth is your enemy; you will never deserve to be called a real American as long as you side with America’s most vicious enemy, the Bush administration.
November 19th, 2007 at 8:10 am-troop deaths are up over all previous years; I know that makes you happy
-Comment by Lefty Patriot
-Too bad the truth is your enemy; you will never deserve to be called a real American as long as you side with America’s most vicious enemy, the Bush administration.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 19, 2007
Point one: NO ONE is happy to see soldiers die, and to say so is ridiculous. I am not pro war, but I have met many of them, and most of them have families fighting there now. They don’t WANT people to die. If you have an argument to make, stick with FACTS so that you don’t stray out of line into the realm of lunacy. Point two: Bush is NOT trying to kill us. The Iranians and other Islamic extremists ARE. It wasn’t the afghanis who attacked us, attacked England, attacked India or anywhere else; it was a displaced group of terroist people, who are now allied with Iran to try to and take over the empty power space in Iraq. A group of people who (regardless of however much you wish to deny and disagree with me) call for the downfall of the west. Previous posters reviewed my earlier blog and said there were no facts; i assure you, nearly ALL of what I have said can be documented in news articles, found on google or seen in video footage. Bush is going to go away in a short period of time no matter WHAT after his term is over. The true enemies of our nation will not. And if you really feel that our country is a failure and doomed to horrible repercussions, than you all should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing it to happen yourselves and not attempting to save your own home from destruction. To say that the Bush administration is a failure is synonymous with saying that AMERICA is a failure at present. He takes actions that the world sees as representative of our own wishes. Stop fooling yourselves into thinking that you are not responsible or accountable for the world’s events simply because you hate Bush. ANY one of you could have pushed for impeachment in congress. ANY of you had the power to appear in our senate as citizens and DEMAND a resolution to Iraq’s standoff. The fact that Iraq was invaded illegally or without right is what is moot. It is over, and done, and cannot be changed. No arguments on the matter ever make it go away. It is now history. So why reinstate the point? It solves NOTHING. No person can come up with a possible solution on their own, but if more of us thought AHEAD, and not BACKWARDS, perhaps we could all come up with a viable outcome to save us from the mess we are in. So, realize that I don’t propose a solution; I merely request that we complain less and think more.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:48 am..and #38, you said I should go back to the beginning and consider that we should never have entered Iraq. Reread my first few sentences. It is the FIRST thing I said. All of my argument is BASED on that problem. So try again, and try a little harder. If you don’t think my facts are right, then give me some of your own. I have yet to see a rebuttal with any numbers, accounts of events or SUBSTANCE. Merely uncalled for insults and profanity. Non of it has the least potential to solve anything in our nation.
November 19th, 2007 at 9:52 amthe vast majority of the population who watch Fox news
Who told you this, Fox News?
November 19th, 2007 at 11:24 amIts time for people who call themselves “Democrats” to wake up to the sad reality that their party has already chosen Hillary Clinton as the nominee and that those in the party got to Obama a long time ago to tell him to ease off and not present serious attacks or serious alternatives to Hillary’s campaign. The Democrats apparently do not want to see her damaged for the general election and want the defense money that comes with non-commital answers on questions like “would you get out of Iraq before 2013?”.
Here is some proof of this collusion as I see it. Look at both of these answers and see how Obama is deliberately protecting Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party as a whole. But he is doing so to the detriment of the voting public, particularly by mirroring her stance on Iraq before the year 2013.
VIDEO:
Obama On Iraq War, 2013
http://test.redlasso.com/service/svc/clip/playClip?fid=995976a7-4b49-4c8a-ba8f-1a52d2736dfe
Clinton On Iraq War, 2013
November 19th, 2007 at 11:59 amhttp://test.redlasso.com/service/svc/clip/playClip?fid=48e72937-39f7-4e7f-9dce-c653802b3237
Hmmmmm…haven’t we *already* declared “victory in Iraq” four or five times?
November 19th, 2007 at 3:45 pmBush’s Legacy = Millions of dead people
November 19th, 2007 at 3:50 pmComment by LawlessMP — November 19, 2007 @ 9:52 am
..and #38, you said I should go back to the beginning and consider that we should never have entered Iraq. Reread my first few sentences. It is the FIRST thing I said. All of my argument is BASED on that problem.
OK,… sigh… here is just the tip of the iceberg. Your first sentence says we are “at war”. NO, we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. There is no “war” here. Now we are an occupying nation against the will of the Iraqi people.
You say, “by all of our standards”, NO, speak for yourself and not others here on the board, myself included. The standards you speak of are not spelled out here, yet you expect others to agree with this statement. This makes no sense.
You continue by saying “the war in Iraq is completed in it’s mission.” By this you assume a legitimacy that does not exist. There was no “legitimate mission” to start, perform or to complete. That the neocons in power claim that there, is does not make it so. And in your next sentence you say: “as we almost all agree”, again speak for yourself. These generalized statements where you take the position of speaking for others is something you need to look into. You are simply wrong to do it.
Then you continue, “the war probably should never have been started in the first place, or at the very least was poorly timed and executed given the situations at hand at the time of the outbreak.”
You say “probably” which is not definitive at all. Does the use of the word “probably” indicate a lack of real understanding on your part, or is it a fear of committing yourself to a firm position? The rest of your sentence seems to indicate that you have no clue, given the wishy washy nature of it. And this last part also assumes that the “war” was legitimate but just “poorly timed and executed” In other words, Bush’s bumbling is the problem and the “war” should have been better planned and everything would be just fine.
And you continue: “at the time of the outbreak.” Outbreak??? What outbreak? There was only our invasion. A pre-emptive strike based on lies and deception.
Your whole post is like this. Pure hooey. Either YOU “try harder” or go somewhere else with your neocon fantasies. And yes, I believe you are a neocon enabler.
November 19th, 2007 at 8:57 pm