..and #38, you said I should go back to the beginning and consider that we should never have entered Iraq. Reread my first few sentences. It is the FIRST thing I said. All of my argument is BASED on that problem.

OK,… sigh… here is just the tip of the iceberg. Your first sentence says we are “at war”. NO, we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. There is no “war” here. Now we are an occupying nation against the will of the Iraqi people.
You say, “by all of our standards”, NO, speak for yourself and not others here on the board, myself included. The standards you speak of are not spelled out here, yet you expect others to agree with this statement. This makes no sense.
You continue by saying “the war in Iraq is completed in it’s mission.” By this you assume a legitimacy that does not exist. There was no “legitimate mission” to start, perform or to complete. That the neocons in power claim that there, is does not make it so. And in your next sentence you say: “as we almost all agree”, again speak for yourself. These generalized statements where you take the position of speaking for others is something you need to look into. You are simply wrong to do it.

Then you continue, “the war probably should never have been started in the first place, or at the very least was poorly timed and executed given the situations at hand at the time of the outbreak.”
You say “probably” which is not definitive at all. Does the use of the word “probably” indicate a lack of real understanding on your part, or is it a fear of committing yourself to a firm position? The rest of your sentence seems to indicate that you have no clue, given the wishy washy nature of it. And this last part also assumes that the “war” was legitimate but just “poorly timed and executed” In other words, Bush’s bumbling is the problem and the “war” should have been better planned and everything would be just fine.
And you continue: “at the time of the outbreak.” Outbreak??? What outbreak? There was only our invasion. A pre-emptive strike based on lies and deception.

Your whole post is like this. Pure hooey. Either YOU “try harder” or go somewhere else with your neocon fantasies. And yes, I believe you are a neocon enabler.

Here is some proof of this collusion as I see it. Look at both of these answers and see how Obama is deliberately protecting Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party as a whole. But he is doing so to the detriment of the voting public, particularly by mirroring her stance on Iraq before the year 2013.

VIDEO:

Obama On Iraq War, 2013
http://test.redlasso.com/service/svc/clip/playClip?fid=995976a7-4b49-4c8a-ba8f-1a52d2736dfe

Clinton On Iraq War, 2013
http://test.redlasso.com/service/svc/clip/playClip?fid=48e72937-39f7-4e7f-9dce-c653802b3237

Who told you this, Fox News?

-Too bad the truth is your enemy; you will never deserve to be called a real American as long as you side with America’s most vicious enemy, the Bush administration.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 19, 2007

Point one: NO ONE is happy to see soldiers die, and to say so is ridiculous. I am not pro war, but I have met many of them, and most of them have families fighting there now. They don’t WANT people to die. If you have an argument to make, stick with FACTS so that you don’t stray out of line into the realm of lunacy. Point two: Bush is NOT trying to kill us. The Iranians and other Islamic extremists ARE. It wasn’t the afghanis who attacked us, attacked England, attacked India or anywhere else; it was a displaced group of terroist people, who are now allied with Iran to try to and take over the empty power space in Iraq. A group of people who (regardless of however much you wish to deny and disagree with me) call for the downfall of the west. Previous posters reviewed my earlier blog and said there were no facts; i assure you, nearly ALL of what I have said can be documented in news articles, found on google or seen in video footage. Bush is going to go away in a short period of time no matter WHAT after his term is over. The true enemies of our nation will not. And if you really feel that our country is a failure and doomed to horrible repercussions, than you all should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing it to happen yourselves and not attempting to save your own home from destruction. To say that the Bush administration is a failure is synonymous with saying that AMERICA is a failure at present. He takes actions that the world sees as representative of our own wishes. Stop fooling yourselves into thinking that you are not responsible or accountable for the world’s events simply because you hate Bush. ANY one of you could have pushed for impeachment in congress. ANY of you had the power to appear in our senate as citizens and DEMAND a resolution to Iraq’s standoff. The fact that Iraq was invaded illegally or without right is what is moot. It is over, and done, and cannot be changed. No arguments on the matter ever make it go away. It is now history. So why reinstate the point? It solves NOTHING. No person can come up with a possible solution on their own, but if more of us thought AHEAD, and not BACKWARDS, perhaps we could all come up with a viable outcome to save us from the mess we are in. So, realize that I don’t propose a solution; I merely request that we complain less and think more.

Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 19, 2007 @ 7:56 am

there is only a war on truth, bigmouth. terror is not an enemy. your ranting and lying just paints you and yours as ignorant tools of the rightwing war machine, which is in it for the money only. the surge is a cruel joke, and hasn’t worked at all. troop deaths are up over all previous years; I know that makes you happy. All of the blather you have posted about Iraqis stepping up is completely unencumbered by truth of any sort; in fact the opposite is taking place. Too bad the truth is your enemy; you will never deserve to be called a real American as long as you side with America’s most vicious enemy, the Bush administration.

Excuse me, we won the war several years ago

In my mind we did not “win” anything, because there was no “war” to win. We invaded Iraq, illegally, and are illegally occupying another soverign country now. This is the reason to get out, not because Bush and the MSM dolts say that we won the “war”.

However, if I were a creep fighting America, I would stop the violence when there are many troops, then as soon as America started withdrawing troops, I would increase the violence. You’d make the pro-war people look like fools, ala “Mission Accomplished”. And if America sent back more troops, then you’re succeeding in draining America’s resources. Then I’d relocate the fight. Strategy 101.

BTW, violence is down also because so many refugees have fled.

Yeah..the amounts are equivalent to billions of dollars here in america.. trolls like bigfoot and micheal have NO problem with us paying 25 million dollars to a sunni chieftan who used to be directing attacks against us, but heaven forbid we spend money on sick children here….

what possible reason would betrayus have for continuing associating with the political parriah Chalabi? most likely to learn tips on how to bribe the people of iraq..

the “surge” strategy in iraq has been, first and foremost, a surge of money.
its like fighting illegal immigration by paying mexicans not to jump the border fence…gets temporary results, but what happens when you stop paying for results?

Oh, what? They aren’t any such thing? Well, now that sucks.

What? Our alliance with the Sunni tribal chiefs undercuts their authority? Woe.

Comment by Cactus Jack1 — November 18, 2007 @ 7:28 pm

and i could swear that chris wallace is really the rev. lovejoy from the simpsons

Your whole post is a load of hooey. Frankly, it is way too much bother to refute your opinions here as it would have to be done line by line. There is almost nothing in this rant (and that is all that it amounts to) that is not off base.

I suggest you go back to the beginning and consider the fact that we had no right to invade Iraq and have no right to be there now. That fact alone makes all your opinions above useless and moot.

Comment by LawlessMP — November 18, 2007 @ 7:48 pm

Nice bunch of bullshit with no answers or solutions from you. America is going the same way the USSR did, destroyed by hubris and sociopathy. Iraq is lost, and all of that violence is going to happen, sooner or later. it already is happening, and we can do nothing about it, and are doing nothing about it. Millions, dead, displaced, homeless, marginalized. Your solution is to bring us down with it? Not so good.

After Hussein’s death, a political vacuum was created that has now left every insurgent group with enough guns to raid the cities of Iraq mad with ambition to aquire a nation to rule. Iraq’s cheif enemy in the establishment of democracy is their neighbors, the Iranians, who are fundamentalist Islamics, and who, as per their fanatical religious beliefs, HATE America along with the rest of the western world. In recent times, Iran has found alliance and support from Russia and China (those history buffs among you can easily remember all the unfriendly memories America has had with them), and the resulting alliance has left a wickedly unstable political climate in the areas surrounding Iraq. The British presence was mainly there to show support for us, as a nation. Their withdrawal was only on the grounds that their presence, in addition to America, was overtly threatening to the enemies of Iraq, making them feel ganged up on, which in turn was spurring greater and more desperate attacks. It was with this in mind that the British withdrew their forces. Frankly, their being there was only setting a frightening foundation for a potential outbreak of yet another World War. Now America alone is present in Iraq. The newly formed Iraqi government has very little structured as of yet; they are still in their infancy. Because of this, they are militarily quite poorly trained and equipped, and are now facing hordes of various enemies, most of which are brutal, merciless, and bent on destroying Iraq and claim it as their own. The effect of our IMMEDIATE withdrawal, in light of the situation, seems to me to be twofold. In the short term, the ONLY possible outcome for the brave souls in the Iraqi government is death. Those people who, knowing the impossible dangers of standing for their political beliefs against the fundamentalist and fanatical groups of people neighboring them have decided to stand strong and attempt to forge a new world in which their children can live in justice will be suddenly without ANY military support except for their own, which is ill matched for thier dillema. After all, even WITH us there, the military force is streched thin. They will be overthrown, defeated completley. Their families will be gathered with them, publicly shamed, tortured, and murdered. Innocent people by the THOUSANDS will be slaughtered. This is not speculation, it is based on how extremist factions have ALWAYS acted when they seize power, everywhere in the world. In the long term, those fanatics that call for the abolition of the infidels, which by the way means US, will have a nation with which to grow more openly powerful. Iran, Russia, China and a potentially newly created terrorist nation will be united against the rest of the western world. Whether that would lead to another World war is unknown, but it certainly wouldnt be good.

Ironically, in all likelihood immediate troop withdrawals would lead to FAR greater casualties than continuing the war. The catch is that it IS indeed time to end this war. So the question is, if troop withdrawal is not acceptable immediatley and the war’s continuation is both too expensive and too unrealistic to do, how do we REALLY solve this problem? The situation is dire, and we must ALL take action to educate ourselves and shape the course of history in a positive way. The American dollar is falling in value, its people poorly knowledgeable about the rest of the world, and, like it or not, without any shortage of enemies who would love to see us fail and fall apart. It is no longer a concern of LEFT or RIGHT. We are ALL Americans, and will ALL live to see terrible times ahead if we do not do what’s necessary to settle the instability surrounding us. I hope that this small gesture may inspire those around you to see the sense of urgency that we all live in.