Rove Tries To Rewrite History: Claims WH ‘Opposed’ Politicizing Pre-War Iraq Vote
Rove Tries To Rewrite History: Claims WH ‘Opposed’ Politicizing Pre-War Iraq Vote
Last night on The Charlie Rose Show, former Bush political adviser Karl Rove claimed that he was “opposed” to holding the pre-war Iraq vote just ahead of the 2002 elections. “The administration was opposed to voting on it in the fall of 2002,” Rove said. He stated that his upcoming book will argue that the administration did not want to schedule an Iraq war vote prior to the 2002 elections:
ROSE: But you were opposed to the vote.
ROVE: It happened. We don’t determine when the Congress vote on things. The Congress does.
ROSE: You wish it hadn’t happened at that time. You would have preferred it did not happen at that time.
ROVE: That’s right.
Watch it:
Recall, the House and the Senate voted on whether to authorize war against Iraq in October 2002, just a few weeks prior to the 2002 elections.
Rove’s claim is utterly dishonest and flat-out false. In Sept. 2002, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD) asked President Bush to delay the vote on the Iraq war:
“I asked directly if we could delay this so we could depoliticize it. I said: ‘Mr. President, I know this is urgent, but why the rush? Why do we have to do this now?’ He looked at Cheney and he looked at me, and there was a half-smile on his face. And he said: ‘We just have to do this now.’”
While some Democrats — particularly Rep. Dick Gephardt (D-MO) — were arguing that it was “imperative” that Congress vote immediately to authorize war, had the White House wanted to delay the vote until after the 2002 elections, they would have found a great deal of support. Here’s what a few key leaders were saying at the time:
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL): “It would be a severe mistake for us to vote on Iraq with as little information as we have. This would be a rash and hasty decision.”
Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA): “I do not believe the decision should be made in the frenzy of an election year.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA): “I know of no information that the threat is so imminent from Iraq” that Congress cannot wait until January to vote on a resolution.
But Karl Rove and President Bush weren’t interested in delaying the vote. Rather, the administration actively politicized it. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said, “Delaying a vote in Congress would send the wrong message.” President Bush explicitly told Congress to “get the issue done as quickly as possible“:
My answer to the Congress is, they need to debate this issue and consult with us, and get the issue done as quickly as possible. It’s in our national interests that we do so. I don’t imagine Saddam Hussein sitting around, saying, gosh, I think I’m going to wait for some resolution.
On Sept. 11, 2002, administration officials briefed Congress on Iraq, with the goal of persuading them to schedule a vote to authorize military action. And the administration’s congressional allies were clear on why they wanted to rush the war vote. “People are going to want to know, before the elections, where their representatives stand,” said Rep. Thomas M. Davis (R-VA.), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee. “This could be the vote of the decade, so why wait?”
Transcript:
ROSE: I haven’t heard you be willing to acknowledge any mistakes in eight years.
ROVE: Sure, I’m happy to acknowledge mistakes.
ROSE: Well, tell me one.
ROVE: Social security. We moved too late. We should have moved a heck of a lot earlier.
ROSE: And the war?
ROVE: Uh, the war– I’m– I’m going to be circumspect about this– look, you’re trying to get me to gush my whole book out there. Were there mistakes made in the war, yeah?
ROSE: I’m not trying to make you gush your book.
ROVE: You can make the argument– you can make an argument that we should have done the surge earlier–
ROSE: Go way back. Make the argument perhaps we should have delayed and let the inspections take their–
ROVE: Charlie– Charlie, I’m not going to tell you the answer to this but I want you to remember you asked me about that because one of the untold stories about the war is why did the United States Congress, the United States Senate, vote on the war resolution in the fall of 2002?
ROSE: Why?
ROVE: This administration was opposed to it. I’m going to talk about that in my book.
ROSE: Tell me, give me–
ROVE: No, no.
ROSE: Give me something.
ROVE: No.
ROSE: Give me something.
ROVE: I just did. I told you the administration was opposed to voting on it in the fall of 2002.
ROSE: Because?
ROVE: Because we didn’t think it belonged in the confines of the election. We thought it made it too political. We wanted it outside the confines of the election. It seemed it make things move too fast. There were things that needed to be done to bring along allies and potential allies abroad and yet–
ROSE: So you didn’t do it because…?
ROVE: There was a vote, and I’m– I’m–
ROSE: But you were opposed to the vote.
ROVE: It happened. we don’t determine when the Congress vote on things. The Congress does.
ROSE: You wish it hadn’t happened at that time. you would have preferred it did not happen at that time.
ROVE: That’s right.
ROSE: Because your argument– your argument is you would have had maybe more inspections. You would have been able to build a broader coalition. You could have done a whole lot other things if you didn’t have to have a vote, right?
ROVE: Right, right, exactly.
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Happy Thanksgiving to all @ TP. Put a little something in the donation jar for you.
Can’t stand watching that pompous ass lying (& he does otherwise when?), so I’ll skip the video for now. No point giving myself indigestion this early in the day…
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 amKarl Rove is a liar! Go ahead and sue me, Rove. The truth is a defense against libel. You, Rove, are a liar.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 amHappy Thanksgiving, everybody. All except for scumbags like Karl Rove. Thanks for orchestrating the last eight years of hell for this country. Karl Rove defines the term “scraping from the bottom of the barrel.”
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:45 amIf the Turd Blossom ever tells the truth, his hair will grow back and his nose will grow long. This is a lying sob,.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:46 amOne person placing one piece of lead in that mans face would make certain that history gets it right.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:46 amI will contribute to a defense fund.
Happy Thanksgiving……..time to fight back.
Comment by Vanthomas — November 22, 2007 @ 11:46 am
We cannot solve the world’s problems using violence.
Permanently freeze his bank accounts.
Happy Thanksgiving.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:49 amAhhh, I get it now. The precipitous invasion of Iraq was all Congress’ fault! How could I have been so wrong, thinking it was the White House? It was really Senate Democrats who rushed in without waiting for all the inspections to conclude, and true American heroes like Karl Rove were doing their best to insert sanity and, dare I say it, nuance into the situation.
Wow.
Does Karl Rove seriously believe that anyone in this country except the mouthbreathing wingnuts will swallow this astonishing lie? Does he think that all the speeches, all the video and audio recorded at the time has magically disappeared and can’t be used to refute him? Well, sure, none of it will ever see the light of day on FoxNoose; perhaps he’s delusional enough to believe that most Americans watch that crap and beleive it.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:50 amKarl Rove is no ordinary garden variety liar. He is more than that. He is more than just a serial liar, too. He is a psychopath.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:56 amAhhh, I get it now. The precipitous invasion of Iraq was all Congress’ fault!
So who was in charge of Congress in 2002? It certainly was not the Democrats. It was the Rubber Stamp Repuliscums.
Sorry Karl, no one is going to buy your bullshit except for the 24%ers. They will believe anything their “daddy” tells them. They need those authority figures to tell them how to live their lives.
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:56 amConservatives have to lie to get morons to buy the bullshit.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:00 pmTraitor who deserves to have his lying head ripped off and a steaming load of crap dumped down his throat. How many people have suffered and died thanks to this miserable excuse for a human being.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:04 pmAnd one can only wonder how much better off our country and the world would be had he never been born.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:06 pmAnd here I thought he was mean and megalomaniacal. He should be pitied! I see why Think Progress is deemed so “dangerous”. Beating up the poor crazy man with evidence of the truth. You should be ashamed!.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:11 pmAhhh, I get it now. The precipitous invasion of Iraq was all Congress’ fault!
So who was in charge of Congress in 2002? It certainly was not the Democrats. It was the Rubber Stamp Repuliscums.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 22, 2007 @ 11:56 am
Uh, no. The Senate was still controlled by the Democrats up until the Republicans took control in the 2002 election. Which was, of course, the whole point of pushing the vote prior to the election, so the Democrats could be put on the spot.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:17 pmI watched that interview last night and I was profoundly disappointed in Charlie’s performance. He had ample opportunity to call Rove on the BS he was spinning and during the only two efforts he did make hold his feet to the fire; asking about mistakes the admin made, he let Carl spout BS about their Social Security effort should have been started sooner. WTF; Charlie should have asked specific questions about specific mistakes that the majority of the American People feel are screw ups.
And that comment about congress having a lower approval rating than GB, he missed the boat in pointing out that the Repug congress refuses to let the Dems have anything that could be considered a success and they hold just enough seats to insure that goal.
What a free pass, was this designed to let Carl rewrite history, you know the old adage if a lie is repeated often enough it becomes truth and unfortunate I see the next generation of all these admin losers writing books and doing interviews for exactly that purpose; to rewrite the truth.
The only way to fight this is to answer each and every lie spouted with a cited truth stating otherwise each time they try and let one fly. This interview will only strengthen the lies as it can now be cited as an example of truth to the world as they see it.
I really expected more out of Charlie and I hope he is reading this, you blew it bub.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pmSorry Wayne, and I wish you and yours the best this day,but violence is the only thing that is going to penetrate the skulls of this cabal. If Fran Townsend was shot in the face you would see immediate fear in the pundits and lawmakers.I hope this never happens but if it does I shall applaud loudly. If we are supposed to fight fire with fire then we should fight fear with fear.The time for trying to build bridges is over.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:19 pmGolly, we wouldn’t want Karl to “gush his whole book” and lose money. I mean building a stalinist revision of history is an art and it takes time. Witnesses need to coerced and silenced, documents need to be rounded up and destroyed. I have an idea, why doesn’t Karl just drop dead. Then we’ll never know, right?
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 pmComment by Wayne A. Schneider — November 22, 2007 @ 11:49 am
I have to disagree with you on this one. As abhorrent as violence is; it has solved innumerable “problems”. Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany spring to mind.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:26 pmKarl Rove is full of BUSH-IT.
Now he is working on a new mission of saving his face? GGeeeeee, what a coward!
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:33 pmThat half-smile Rove describes when talking to Bush, who looked at Cheney – that’s the frickin’ smirk he wears on his little clown face.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:39 pmRove may be preparing for his next job: http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/18/rove-may-lead-bush-library/
See also this Presidential Library site:
http://www.georgewbush.org/
(read the site carefully!)
(and follow the links!)
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:40 pmViolence begets more violence. There has to be a better way. How can we all live together in peace if we insist that others must die?
Yes, I am naive, but there just has to be a better way.
Peace to you, friends.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:51 pmFrom a marketing point of view, you don’t introduce new products in August.
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:57 pmMr Rose;
I hope you went home and did a couple of hours in a tank of sheep dip. not that you are a sheep, but when you have to talk to wolves like that you must take all precautions.
Remenber Tom Dashel and his mail service?
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:59 pmPuh-leeeeeeeze…when have neoconservatives like Rove ever shied away from politicizing anything?!? If past behavior is any indication, they know next to nothing about fighting fairly or using logic and evidence to justify an argument — they resort to fighting dirty by capitalizing on people’s most visceral emotions (primarily their fears and prejudices) and politicizing goes hand-in-glove with this. This is nothing but a typical neoconservative (read “Orwellian”) CYA maneuver — when real life misbehaves and refuses to fall in lockstep with all your nice tidy little dreams and schemes and theories and machinations, do whatever you can to convince people that the facts and history have miraculously been rewritten so that they support you instead of undercutting you. After all, let’s not forget that early on in Bush’s first term, one White House insider made a boast to a reporter effectively claiming that the Bush administration created its own truth (I’ve even seen at least one quote claiming that the person who uttered this boast was Rove himself — but even though that’s probably apocryphal, it certainly sounds like something he would have said back then).
When will the neoconservatives learn that Orwell intended “1984″ to be a cautionary tale and not a freakin’ instruction manual?!?
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:00 pmThanks but no thanks Karl.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:09 pmSo Turd Blossom told ANOTHER whoppin’ big lie.
What else is new?
Does anyone anywhere still think he’ll clean up his act and show some contrition? If so, I have some land in Florida for sale…
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:18 pmROVE SHOULD BE WRITING WHATEVER HE WANTS, BUT BEHIND BARRS! WAINTING FOR TRIAL FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND WAR CRIMES! BUT AS IT IS THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA (FORMER USA), HE IS, LIKE SCOOTER LIBBY, WALKING FREE… IMPEACH, IDICT, IMPRISON THE WAR CRIMINALS!
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:24 pmRove can try and rewrite history all he likes.What many pundits and loyalists fail to appreciate is that we now live in an age where every single gaffe and truth is beyond well documented. In the past,history relied on news reports(half hour a day) and newspapers which made it easy to gloss over and whitewash history.Not many had the desire to pour over microfilm at the local library to set things straight. This presidents entire administration has been filmed to the nth degree.Every word can be looked up by anyone,and every lie can be rebutted instantly.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmLet them build his LIEbrary,we have a trove of facts to make sure history knows the truth about this treasonous asshole.
It’s in our national interests that we do so. I don’t imagine Saddam Hussein sitting around, saying, gosh, I think I’m going to wait for some resolution. G.W.Bush
Sitting around waiting for what???? For the inspectors to NOT FIND any WMD’s??
No Country …Zero….has EVER given WMD’s to another country. The soviets never gave WMD’s to Warsaw pact countries during the cold war. Syria and Iran have WMD’s but never gave them to Hezzbolah.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:25 pmAll the blame, and none of the control would befall a country foolish enough to share their WMD’s.
“… but Rove’s going down with the ship, whether he likes it or not.”
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 22, 2007 @ 1:23 pm
True, Bartles. I, for one, detect this sour stench of desperation escaping form these clowns of late. Notice how quickly both Krongard Bros, “Cookie” and “Buzzy”, backed away from Le’Affair Blackwater when their interlocking roles were outted? That would not have happened 3 yrs ago. The GOOPers would have just p*ssed on everyone and plowed straight ahead.
The ship isn’t going down, it’s already sitting on the bottom. As we approach Jan ‘09, the whoppers are going to get bigger and bigger. As the prospect of prosecution, conviction, and incarceration looms bigger and bigger in these frauds’ rear view mirrors, like a gigantic semi bearing down down on their sorry *sses, they’ll be scramblin’ harder and harder.
Let the games begin!
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 pmThe lies and deceit from this administration have been so enormous and systematic, Rove not only will have to rewrite history, but he will have to find an alternate universe in which to inhabit, one where the people have never heard of the lying, treasonous, and cowardly Chimp.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pmViolence begets more violence. There has to be a better way. How can we all live together in peace if we insist that others must die?
Yes, I am naive, but there just has to be a better way.
Peace to you, friends.
Comment by Wayne A. Schneider
I agree Wayne. If we start advocating violence, we will be no better than the Republiscums who live for violence. I’d like to think that we are better than that. I DO NOT want to see us stoop to their level.
But, then, if Bush declares Marshall Law and becomes a dictator, all bets are off.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:41 pmThey were for it before they were against it?
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:43 pm“… he will have to find an alternate universe in which to inhabit, one where the people have never heard of the lying, treasonous, and cowardly Chimp.”
Comment by Starve-A-Bush_Feed-A-Beaver — November 22, 2007 @ 1:41 pm
The GOOPers are already in their own alternative universe, dude. When was the last time you heard ANYONE in that crowd make a statement that indicated they were dealing w/ the same reality the rest of us acknowledge
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:43 pmevery day?
They will be called before a Federal Grand jury, and I believe they will be indicted.
This will only happen once a Democrat is President. I fervently hope that we get a Democrat who sees that we need to expose all the lies land crimes these people committed before we will ever be able to heal the wounds they have caused to our country.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmLOL.
GOOPer.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 22, 2007 @ 1:32 pm
Aw shucks… just my little contribution to the political dialogue.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:44 pmThe MSM will protect Rove as usual…. will manipulate this as other corrupt shams we see going on keeping it from the masses – the voters.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pmThom Hartman is on the air right now giving a great summary of our right wing biased corporate media.
Never saw the Dawn of the Dead remake, but I kinda get the referenece.
Didn’t they used to call speed freaks “tweakers”?
Indeed, I call them “GOOPers” every chance I get. Somehow, it fits.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pmSince when has this administration not politicized something. Rove’s spinning to avoid his guilt, is disgusting.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:52 pmThey will be called before a Federal Grand jury, and I believe they will be indicted.
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:54 pmIf the masses are kept ignorant of this too as we have seen with other issues such as TREASON committed by the administration itself, and with the present dems we see in congress – for what ever reason they cowardly back down, it will be business as usual - it too will get swept under the carpet.
Nice Try Mocha Dick
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:05 pmOn October 7, 2002, Bush gave a speech in Cincinnatti where he urged immediate action against Iraq. Three days later, the House voted on the Iraq War Resolution and the Senate voted one day after that. Bush himself wanted urgent action, according to the words of his speech: “…we cannot wait for the final proof – the smoking gun – that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.” “…I have asked Congress to authorize the use of America’s military, if it proves necessary, to enforce U.N. Security Council demands.” If Rove says Bush didn’t want the vote to occur before the November elections, why was Bush out there urging immediate Congressional action in his speeches?
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:08 pmGee, Mr. Rove, I’m a little surprised to read that you haven’t attacked the liberals for trying to take the turkey out of Thanksgiving…
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:31 pmWell I don’t know what “masses†live in your state, but you’d have a hard time finding someone in my state who still buy’s their bullshit. I live in Oregon, a blue state.
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:39 pmI have two kids, in their young 20’s, both in college, typical average kids, and because they do not hear about all this corruption in the news, it just ain’t so. This is also true among their networks, 2 networks, of friends… try talking about the subjects you hear on Thom Hartman and it is a patronizing here we go again. My son talks about conversations in his class while the class is on break… one guy, a Vietnam vet pretty much has TP views, but as for the rest, most in their 20’s have no clue and I am going to guess they look at this guy in a negative way. I can go on and on about other scenarios.
I feel most, with their busy lives, do not see/hear the truth as it is not on the news 24/7 as it was with the blue dress. And I am also going to say the corporate MSM, also invested in MIC, and the fact a republican president/congress benefits their continued growth has no problem with this.
I am hopeful you claim those in your area see the truth… I just do not see it here.
pathological liar.but heres a little tidbit from Courage Campaign…in Santa Barbara Calif there was(is) a group of petitioners claiming to be for an org called.”Children with Cancer getting people to sign.Turns out their a group of repugs from an org called”Calif Counts”.Their still trying to split the electoral votes here in Calif. 2 or 3 months ago they said they were giving up……typical lying……but to con people under the guise of helping Children with Cancer……….dispicable……one of the many reasons why I’m so pissed off at repugs.
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 pmWell I don’t know what College your kids go to but I’d look for a new one.
These days the neocons aren’t welcome at MOST colleges in the US.
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:58 pmneocons have little to do with the college system here… my point is is this age group, in two different social networks, have no clue, believe what we discuss on this site is not true as they do not hear it on the news 24/7 as they did with Clinton’s private affair.
Also politics is not a discussion unless taking a history, political science, government…the discussion I was talking about happened on break between class mantes, one a Vietnam vet, who seemed to be the only one with TP views in a class of about 25.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pmMy kids are doing well, meeting their goals in the Oregon college system..And the cost of an out of state college is out of the question.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:09 pmBut, then, if Bush declares Marshall Law and becomes a dictator, all bets are off.
Comment by bilbobaggins
Let the revolution begin…Stock up on supplies, ammo and weapons…the repukes have.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:12 pmmy point is is this age group, in two different social networks, have no clue, believe what we discuss on this site is not true as they do not hear it on the news 24/7 as they did with Clinton’s private affair.
Comment by had enough — November 22, 2007 @ 2:58 pm
I’m guessing these kids don’t go to college in Eugene, Corvallis or Portland. Or Ashland, for that matter. But the rest of this surprises me, because my kids, who are in the same age bracket, get none of their information from the mainstream media, and certainly not from network news. I doubt they could name any one of the major news anchors, and the same is true for their friends.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:15 pmI think most college kids are keenly aware of mainstream politics today, in fact, who do you think makes up Colbert and Stewarts primary audience?
Comment by BARTLEBEE
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:18 pmWhat is that saying… we can agree to disagree..?
The daily show is also popular, but the bottom line, I do not see this age group getting just how serious the issues are. We have an administration that committed treason.. where are the demonstrations?
my kids, as most students, are starting out are in community college to keep the costs down…. and it is from that group, the group most 20 somethings come from in their early college years is what I am talking about. I have heard the scattered news of anti bush sentiment coming from the high profile colleges… But what percent are these folks as compared to the community college students with no political groups/interests added to the average population of young voters all of which do not have a clue therefore will believe the MSM bias…and …. the worst part vote republican.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:39 pmBut. But. But, I thought that colleges were “dangerously leftist”.
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:50 pmThis day on Thanksgiving I sit home alone – my choice…. can not tolerate the pro bush crap I would be exposed to locally and to visit the somewhat well to do parents in a gated community with FOX news on constantly is unbearable. Thought I would visit here … but feel somewhat slightly bashed.
November 22nd, 2007 at 4:07 pmOh well.
Karl Rove-LSOS-lying sack of shit.
He lies because he enjoys lying.
-GSD
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:03 pmUSA patriot needs a shrink……..and a dictionary……and maybe a class in political science………but that’s way over his head……..nevermind the last one.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:18 pmthe definition of facism..take a real long look at your party USA patriot….you’ve just described them to a T…..what a maroon.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:25 pmI am hopeful you claim those in your area see the truth… I just do not see it here.
Comment by had enough
I, too, live in Oregon and my town, Corvallis, has been on to Bush for a very long time. Most days of the week there are 5-15 people in front of our Courthouse on the main street downtown with carrying signs protesting Bush and the occupation of Iraq.
Now, on to the young people. My daughter is a 30 something lawyer in California. She doesn’t get enough real news through her preferred media (paper and television), but she and her friends are on to Bush also and have been for a long time. I asked her recently if she knows anyone who supports Bush or the occupation in Iraq and she looked at me like I was crazy. I am trying to convince her to get her news from the Internet at she is starting to do that, so I think she will be well informed soon.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:27 pmYes, fascism is a left-wing ideology.
Comment by USA_Patriot
Anyone who says something as ridiculous as this does not deserve recognition. Please just flag this idiot troll and move on. Don’t give him what he wants, and that is recognition.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:28 pmwell……I suppose it would be in your world.Idiot are you calling Hitler a liberal?Your ignorance is astounding….you should of stayed in school.Let me guess…you get all your info and nooz from FUX Nooz…….
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:29 pmI see our favorite little troll is trying out another new name.
DISCREDITED. NEXT ALIASS PLEASE!
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:30 pm“a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of oppositionâ€
That’s today’s Democratic Party to a T.
Comment by USA_Patriot
Talk about projection, this one takes the cake. This miserable troll describes the Republiscum party and then says that it is the Democratic party. Irony is not this one’s strong suit.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:32 pmI really dont know what to call the people in DC anymore. The say that anyone thats not them are ‘reality based’.
They are, for the most part then neo-Marxists, or Straussists, who see truth and reality as objective.
C Wright Mills, a sociologist, would consider these Orwellian thinkers as Crackpot Realists;
Sounds about like what we have running around DC, doesnt it?
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:37 pmMy my. Our favorite little troll is spamming all over the place. And still hasn’t managed a single rational thought.
DISCREDITED. NEXT ALIASS PLEASE!
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:37 pmevery rationally thinking mind knows Rove lies……I got a kick out of Time Mag saying no to his application.They said they didn’t want a person with his background and may be a legal risk due to his ties in the Plame/Wilson matter………….so newsweek hired him…as a Op Editor…..why I’ll never know…..more lies and spin…courtesy of newsweek coming soon
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:38 pmAnd I bet the hard hitting, professional journalist, Charlie Rose, had the facts on hand to challenge him and force him to admit he was lying.
November 22nd, 2007 at 8:31 pmLIE…LIE….LIE…WAR…LIE…WAR…WAR…LIE…LIE…..More of the same flavor koolaide…How pathetic…
November 22nd, 2007 at 8:58 pm
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pmTos stop funding universities would further narrow the gene pool of talent… we need more funding, maybe even free college tuition for our best and brightest. A parent from the Eugene Or area has a brilliant son that completed high school at age 14, entered community college as that is all she could afford and when it was time to transfer on for the engineering degree, she had to send him to Canada as it was affordable. There were no reasonable resources for her son here. Think of all the talent we could save for the betterment of our country.
Yes, fascism [sic] is a left-wing ideology.
Comment by USA_Patriot — November 22, 2007 @ 5:25 pm
That’s stupid to the core.
Facism is a government run by corporations. This is the facism we see in the country now. The people no longer have a say. Everything is run by facists, corporate, corrupt internationalists who hate the American way of life of our glorious past!!!!!!!
They hate our working class and worship the rich!!
EAT THE RICH!!!
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:37 pmTHIS THING (HE IS NOT A MAN) SHOULD BE BEHIND BARRS, THAT IS, IF THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA (FORMER USA) HAVE ANY INTENTION IN REGAINING SOME OF ITS INTERNATIONAL CREDIBILITY… AS IT STANDS, IT HAS NONE!
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:41 pmFSA=WAR CRIMINALS. FSA STANDS FOR USA. THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA! WHAT WE SEE IN THE US TODAY IS FACISM, PURE FACISM… NO ACCOUNTABILITY AND NO MORALS! USA DOES TORTURE, USA DOES OCCUPY, USA DOES SUPPORT MILITARY DICTATORSHIPS, USA DOES PROVIDE TERRORISTS WITH SUPORT- CHECK THE HISTORY OF NICARAGUA OR ASKS NEGROPONTE! USA=WAR CRIMES, AND THIS IS WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS OF THE USA TODAY!
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:51 pmGee, I wonder which “high level Bush administration official” said:
“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality–judiciously, as you will–we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
November 22nd, 2007 at 11:07 pmThis day on Thanksgiving I sit home alone – my choice…. can not tolerate the pro bush crap I would be exposed to locally and to visit the somewhat well to do parents in a gated community with FOX news on constantly is unbearable. Thought I would visit here … but feel somewhat slightly bashed.
Oh well.
Comment by had enough — November 22, 2007 @ 4:07 pm
—————-
Someone once said: “The true measure of a man/woman is how long he/she is willing to walk alone”. Obviously, an American Indian saying.
Happy Thanksgiving!
November 23rd, 2007 at 2:26 amUsApericot, please explain the fundmanental way in which the neoconservative theory of the “unitary executive” differs from a dictatorship?
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:00 amI watched this entire interview. Rove is an accomplished liar, and a revisionist of history. He learned at the knee of Lee Atwater – who had a deathbed mea culpa – but after seeing Rove’s interview, I doubt that his last days will have even a hint of remorse.
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:47 amThis tactic of repeatedly saying the polar opposite of what is true or what is known to be true is one of Rove’s must trusted and effective tools in his (and the GOP’s) bag of tricks. And it worked very reliably well for several years.
However, these “plays” just aren’t effective anymore in a broad sense.
Primary reason: People have learned/are learning to recognize it when they see it.
It’s sort of like something I heard Byron Katie say once.
Once, you might have thought you were seeing a snake coiled up on the ground and reacted in fear. Then, upon closer examination, you discover that what you saw as a deadly snake was really just an old rope.
Try as they might, no matter how many times Rove yells “SNAKE!”, once you’ve you seen the rope for yourself, you simply cannot ever see it as a snake and fear or react to it anymore.
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:24 pm…And the Democrats are STILL falling for georgejr’s BS – every time they are told some “threat” is imminent, they still roll over and give him whatever he wants, And we the people continue to lose rights & privacy, and we keep marching towards perpetual war with one nation after another.
November 23rd, 2007 at 3:54 pmUSA Patriot: “Yes, Democrats are not CLASSICAL liberals, they are fascistic leftists. Your inability to grasp the clear distinction is your own problem.”
When you say “CLASSICAL liberals,” I assume you mean liberals like the Founders of our country. How is the liberalism of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine and George Washington different from today? Paine thought healthcare should be a right. Jefferson thought there should be no standing armies in times of peace. Washington fought against any establishment of any religion in government policy or even statements which could be construed as such. All had a healthy distrust of corporations and didn’t believe in any kind of “imperial” presidency. All agreed that taxation was how to run a civil society. I could go on, but the question is what is the “patriot” talking about? Does he even know what he’s talking about?
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:07 pmWhat is “classical liberalism?” Conservatives often say this is different than modern liberalism when someone points out that most of our country’s founders were liberals. Here’s Thomas Paine, the man most people refer to as the “father of classical liberalism”:
“When it shall be said in any country in the world, my poor are happy; neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of its happiness: when these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its government.”
Sorry righties, but Paine advocated public welfare, public education, government-supported medical care for all citizens, inheritance taxes, progressive taxation of income and heavy regulations on corporations. If anything, today’s mainstream Democrat is to the RIGHT of classical liberalism.
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:27 pmUSA Patriot: “Yes, fascism is a left-wing ideology.”
If this guy had the slightest notion of what he was talking about, if he had ever cracked open a history book, if he hadn’t been napping in what history class he might have been offered…
He’d know that one of the first things all autocratic regimes do, regardless of what you want to call them, is round up all the liberals and intellectuals. Happens every single time whether your talking autocratic Communism or right-wing fascism. But this guy just has NO CLUE!
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:31 pmHow liberal were some of the founders? Jefferson didn’t like corporations:
“I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. â€
George Washington was proud to be a liberal:
“As mankind becomes more liberal they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protection of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations in examples of justice and liberality.â€
And Washington was an open-minded, tolerant liberal kind of guy:
“If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.”
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:47 pmBut… but.. but… Jack!
Where are all of the Christian principles the “deeply religious” founding fathers based our country upon? I keep hearing about them, but these quotes don’t sound anything like that at all.
What gives?
/sarc
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 pmSounds like Charlie Rose really did his homework prepping for this interview. I used to think he was a professional. Not that I’m just noticing this now… I guess Rove wouldn’t have done the interview if he thought he’d be interviewed by someone who would call him on his lies.
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 pmKKKarl Rove trying to change History?
Shirley you jest, don’t call me Surly,
I recall those days very well, as I saved every internet/newspaper
November 24th, 2007 at 12:02 amarticle I could find about the current situation then. The election
that year was all about supporting the POTUS in his intended invasion
of Iraq, because the Iraqi’s were building an Atomic Bomb. Condi
and the rest of the bunch were all saying it. And remember those cute
little drones filled with poison gas the Iraqis were going to load on a
ship and saturation bomb the US with? Lie after lie after Lie after lie
after lie. And how many thousands of Americans, and Iraqis are dead now due to their lies? Only the Gods know for sure. And its clear from
reading this thread, hardly one person stateside could be bothered to
care. And millions of Americans still believe every word out of sweetpea
KKKarls mouth. I hope they enjoy their Christofascism State the thugs
in the GOP were good enough to give us. Traitors to the Republic the lot.
This is a pretty slick written article. Obviously distorted to make Karl Rove appear to be lying. He is not trying to change history but rather discuss how he felt about the situation at the time. If anybody is lying, I would take a look at comments made by the Democrats in this article. They are masters at distorting the truth and making political mountains out of molehills.
Karl Rove served the Bush Administration & the country quite well. Yet he was hated by the Democrats because he was so effective. Hopefully we will see his services again in the next Republican Administration that is elected in 2008.
December 2nd, 2007 at 5:09 am