Bush ally defeated in Australian elections.
By at 11:45 am
Bush ally defeated in Australian elections.
Conservative Australian Prime Minister John Howard, who has been “one of President Bush’s staunchest allies,” suffered “a humiliating defeat” in national elections Saturday when the oppositional Labor Party wrested majority control of parliament away from Howard’s coalition by a 53% to 46.7% margin. Labor Party head Kevin Rudd, who is likely to replace Howard as prime minister, “has promised to immediately sign the Kyoto Protocol on global warming and withdraw Australia’s combat troops from Iraq.”
UPDATE: At Climate Progress, Joe Romm explains how Howard’s climate change denial played into his defeat.
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Well, the terrorists have won…again. First the 2006 U.S. Congressional elections, and now this. Will people ever learn?
(snark!)
November 24th, 2007 at 11:52 amAnother Bush poodle goes down in defeat.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:00 pmMilitarist reactionary Howard’s party is called the Liberal Party. How likely is it that Fascist News runs the chyron banner “Liberals Lose in Australia!”?
November 24th, 2007 at 12:02 pm….has promised to immediately sign the Kyoto Protocol on global warming and withdraw Australia’s combat troops from Iraq.
This is the important part of this post. The people in Australia have spoken and it sounds like their new leader is listening. Too bad that can’t happen in the USA. I really do wish we could have a Parliamentary system of government. This having to wait 4 years to get rid of people who have become traitors to our country doesn’t cut it any longer.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:05 pmYes, this is a big deal for those of us who want to see real action on global warming, as I have blogged on here: “Australian denier bites the dust — literally.“
November 24th, 2007 at 12:07 pmWell, it’s heartening to think there are reasonable people somewhere on this planet. Even if it’s halfway around the world.
Way to go Australia!
November 24th, 2007 at 12:08 pmComment by bilbobaggins — November 24, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Several years ago I heard someone (may have been Al Franken) say that given the fact that a president spends much of their first term running for re-election, perhaps we need to have one term lasting 6 years. This would give them time to govern and stay focused (not that that would have worked with Bush in office).
November 24th, 2007 at 12:11 pmThe Aussies have done it. When will Americans be next?
November 24th, 2007 at 12:12 pmThis having to wait 4 years to get rid of people who have become traitors to our country doesn’t cut it any longer.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 24, 2007 @ 12:05 pm
Well, we’ve got impeachment, but you know how that goes.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:13 pmThis is pretty funny. Ever major news outlet has this news except…are you ready…. Faux Noise! Do you think they can really ignore an international story like this one? I’m waiting to see the slant they put on it when they do finally have to address the issue.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:17 pmThe Aussies have done it. When will Americans be next?
Comment by foreyes
November, 2008. That is assuming that Busharruf doesn’t declare Marshall law and himself dictator.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:18 pmThe word harbinger comes to mind…..
November 24th, 2007 at 12:20 pmGlenn Greenwald has a great piece at Salon on the odious Howard.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:25 pmIf there are any Aussiephiles out there perhaps they could enlighten us on some of the differences between the election process Down Under versus the Homeland.
A few guesses…
1) Maybe, just maybe, the Aussies DO NOT have a system where corporate cheerleaders for a particular party also have exclusive, unsupervised responsibility to “count” the ballots — ala Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia? And with no oversight — after all this would violate proprietary secrets. The smoking gun? It would appear that the exit polls actually work in Australia, as they seem to do in every other country but the US of A.
2) Perhaps Howard and his cronies were not yet able to place their political adversaries under close surveillance (phone, e-mail, etc.) allowing them to anticipate and quickly counter every move by the Labour Party. Think of it as having the right to place a microphone in the opposing team’s huddle.
3) Maybe corporations are not granted “personhood”, as is the case in the United States, where those who are wealthy can buy their own representatives, senators, vice-president and president. Here our elected officials do not represent the wishes of their individual voters, but rather, those of their most generous corporate benefactors. Can anyone tell us the last time that United Healthcare, Pfizer, Citicorp, Peabody Coal or Martin Marietta have been disappointed by THEIR representatives’ actions?
In fact, if there were some means of investing in corporate campaign donations, we could all become rich. It is difficult to think of any other investment that produces so much bang for the buck.
Any other ideas out there?
November 24th, 2007 at 12:29 pm#8 foreyes- have no fear. Howard couldn’t stand on Bush’s platform and neither can any of the current GOP crop (yes, Ron Paul included!)
November 24th, 2007 at 12:45 pmTime for change in Australia.
Howard and his party has been ruling there for a long time, his foreign minister A. Downer has been there since 1996.
Howard’s Conservative ‘Liberal Party’ finally was defeated.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:49 pmThe Australian form of government has elections that are publicly funded with a few televised debates. Campaigns are short and sweet, not the absurd two-year political horse-race corruption that we stage every four years. Massive corrupt political ad campaigns are outlawed in Australia.
Note: the Australians have had universal single-payer health insurance and health care for many years. When I visited OZ (Australia) in the 1980s, about 80% of all workers were unionized.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:49 pmSpain’s Aznar.
Italy’s Berlesconi.
Poland’s twins Jaroslaw and Lech Kaczynski.
Britain’s Blair.
Australia’s Howard.
All of Bush’s water carriers were soundly rejected by their respective county’s citizens.
Do you hear that, Repubs? Bush is the most toxic political leader in the world, and as his enablers, you will be tied to him and trounced in the 2008 elections.
November 24th, 2007 at 12:55 pmHow do those numbers compare as percentages of troops present. Whole numbers rarely say anything meaningful
November 24th, 2007 at 12:55 pmIt may take the world to repudiate bush before our represenatives in congress wake up and impeach the traitorous president and his cabal of theives. The go it alone boy king must be deposed.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:00 pmAccording to The Guardian:
“Australia’s PM elect Rudd said he would withdraw Australia’s 550combat troops from Iraq, leaving twice that number assisting and training Iraqi training security forces.”
So it appears that Australia will no longer have ANY
November 24th, 2007 at 1:05 pmcombat troops left in Iraq. Don’t believe any of the troll crap you head here, they never ever tell the truth.
Good thing. A phenomenon slowly taking place across the world will transfer power to those who deserve it. Though Rudd wasn’t my pick (not diverse enough), this will sway Australia to more intelligent representation. I’ll take what I can get.
Now, if only the same can happen here in America…
El racista es ya no responsable.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:07 pmComment by cold_hard_left — November 24, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
The hit-and-run pussy is back, I see. Australia will withdraw ALL combat troops. How does that compare to 5,000 U.S. troops out of 175,000 officially in Iraq, another 40,000 special forces not counted, and another 40,000 in Bush’s private army? 100% vs. 2%.
By the way, didn’t you declare VICTORY! in Iraq on two other threads? Why shouldn’t we withdraw ALL our troops then?
November 24th, 2007 at 1:07 pm“That ain’t a prime minister; THAT’S a prime minister!”
November 24th, 2007 at 1:08 pmRichardson 2008!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:08 pmcold_hard_left = uneducated gringo.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:09 pm¡Victoria! ¡Victoria!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:12 pmHe’s only withdrawing 150 troops and has promised to rule as an economic conservative.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 24, 2007 @ 12:51 pm
Oh, and before you cut ‘n run again, pussy, I have another question: do you believe that Bush has applied conservative economic principles to his governance?
November 24th, 2007 at 1:13 pmBush visited Australia just two months ago, to try to prop up Howard’s failing campaign. He even sent General Petraeus there to talk to the media. Once again, the Chimp triumphs!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:13 pmHopefully this is just the beginning of getting rid of the sludge, lies, and deceit.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:16 pmLooks like pussy doesn’t do questions. He just posts lies then runs for cover.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:18 pmcurmudgeon @ #14 -
Nothing’s more obviously insane, or sinister in effect, than the ruling that corporations = persons. Corps. are legal constructs designed to limit personal liability.
They do not bleed in stupid wars, choke on noxious food and fumes, keen with hunger pangs, or huddle in doorways on winter nights. Hell, they don’t even pay taxes as such (it’s ultimately the consumer person who pays).
The ruling and subsequent mindset does, however, allow them a place at the table of We the People, almost always at the head.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:18 pmComment by VerbalKint — November 24, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
He’s infused Mexico with over $20 billion per year, the only good thing I could say about Bush. That has helped our country alot. It has enabled poorer people to build homes and run businesses, and we are better off for it. In your country, though, economic conservatism hasn’t been much the case.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:19 pmMay ye ROT IN HELL Howard!! You FASCIST F**King POS!!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:22 pmWill the Republicans turn the whole world blue?
November 24th, 2007 at 1:23 pmOh, and before you cut ‘n run again, pussy, I have another question: do you believe that Bush has applied conservative economic principles to his governance?
Comment by VerbalKint — November 24, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
Classic but the good money says the pussy won’t get anywhere near this. You have this one owned!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:23 pmEssay question for everyone: Why are Latinos, documented and undocumented, the future of America?
November 24th, 2007 at 1:24 pm101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010
November 24th, 2007 at 1:25 pmYEAH!!!!! WE KICKED THE WAR CRIMINAL, JONNY HOWARD AND ALEXANDER DONUT OUT!!! TEY LIED TO THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE THE SAME WAY AND WITH THE SAME LIES BUSH AND BLAIR DID, TO INVOLVE AUSTRALIAN WITH THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA’S ILEGAL WAR! THEY ARE OUT NOW! BY A LANDSLIDE!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:26 pmI like the Mexican people and don’t mind helping them economically. It benefits the U.S. to help Mexico. On the other hand, your government has some serious problems of its own with corruption.
But back on topic: Australia has an excellent single-payer health care system, far superior to the U.S. private insurance crime racket.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:27 pmTHE IDIOTIC LITTLE HOWARD HAVE SAID MANY TIME ON TV THAT HE IS A PERSONAL FRIEND OF GEORGE WC. BUSH… THAT IS WHAT HE GETS FOR HAVING PERSONAL FRIENDSHIPS WITH WAR CRIMINALS! NOT TO MENTION THAT JONNY HOWARD’S SON WORKED OR STILL WORKS FOR THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION! WAR CRIMINALS!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:31 pmHoward going down!
Tegucigalpa, we have a problem!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:32 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:31 pm
You said it! Gracias!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:33 pmTHE FSA, THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA (FORMER USA) IS STANDING ALONE! WELL… NOT QUITE, IT HAS PAKISTAN AND ISRAEL…HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! GOD HELP AMERICA!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:33 pmI hate America.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:35 pmI hate America. snark!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:35 pmTurdblossom Rove had assured Ratty Howard that he would win because Rove had ‘the math’.
Another loser on Bush’s watch.
-GSD
November 24th, 2007 at 1:37 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:33 pm
You’re right. Zionism is bringing America’s way of life to a halt.
RIP America (1776-2001)
November 24th, 2007 at 1:37 pmYOU HATE AMERICA
November 24th, 2007 at 1:37 pmHE HATES AMERICA
WE HATE AMERICA
THE WORLD HATES AMERICA!
F_ck Israel!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:38 pmI COULDN’T AGREE MORE!!!! F…CK ISRAEL!!!!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:37 pm
I’ll say. America is fully responsible for the world’s troubles. Their inability to share the wealth has created mass problems.
I’m glad to see a concerned world patriot in you, friend.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:39 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
Time to deport Cheney to Israel. Let those inbreds change the battery in his pacemaker!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:41 pmAmerica is long overdue for an oil change! Let’s get it done before its transmission goes bad!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:42 pmAMERICA’S IS FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MILITARIZATON OF SOUTH AMERICA’S GOVERNMENTS FOR DECADES. IT SUPPORTED ALL MILITARY DICTATOR IN THAT CONTINENT AND IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TORTURE, ABUSE OF POWER, FINANCING ANTI-DEMOCRATIC TERRORISTS (NICARAGUA’S CASE). THEY HAVE NO CREDENTIALS AS ‘DEMOCRACY PROMOTER’, WHICH THEY STOP SAY IT SINCE NO ONE IS LISTENING ANYMORE! REMEMBER? WMD; PROGRAMS OF WMD; PROMOTING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ…
November 24th, 2007 at 1:45 pmUPDATE: At Climate Progress, Joe Romm explains how Howard’s climate change denial played into his defeat.
What about his status as a genocidal freak?
November 24th, 2007 at 1:46 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:45 pm
Corrupt countries only take up the bad examples of America, the only way they’re interested in the letters U-S-A. But if America cleaned up its act, we’d have them exposed as being insecure, overcompensated gringo sh!ts!
If I didn’t say it before, F_ck Israel! Consolidate the corrupt sh!ts there!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:51 pmUNDER HOWARD’S RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT, REFUGEES SEEKING AZILUM WERE LOCKED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS! INCLUDING CHILDREN!!!!!! I’M SO GLAD THIS OLD FART IS OUT!!!! TOGETHER WITH HIS NEWBORN RIGHT WING CHRISTIANS.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:51 pmThey eat it up, they just love it!
Oil for America!
Do what America says!
Leave America a billion dollar tip! $$$
November 24th, 2007 at 1:52 pmComment by sacopenapa — November 24, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Too many righties, so little time.
Time for America to be just and secure.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:54 pmJumbo loans to America! Try our new “Axis of Evil” special, low rates!
Bank TO America!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:55 pmMexico, keep your oil supplies guarded. THEY BELONG TO YOU!
Drill for oil in Israel!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:57 pmFor those of you concerned about our environmental challenges this regime change in Australia is a good thing. Rudd promised to sign the Kyoto pact if elected.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:06 pmActually, to be exact, Rudd promised to RATIFY the Kyoto protocol. Which I believe means he’d commit to binding targets. They’d already signed Kyoto. As has the US – who is now the only country to have signed Kyoto but were not intending on ratifying it.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:15 pmDamn, if they deleted the troll comments on this thread there wouldn’t be much left.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:48 pmJohn Howard, Chimpy’s little lapdog b*tch, lost the election in Australia.
To quote Nelson from The Simpsons:
*ahem* HA-HA!!!
November 24th, 2007 at 3:00 pmComment by mary — November 24, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
What comments are you referring to?
November 24th, 2007 at 3:09 pmBush, Sarkozy, Harper, and Merkel waiting in the wings to be sent to Paraguay next.
November 24th, 2007 at 3:12 pmComment by mary — November 24, 2007 @ 2:48 pm
I’m just witing for the melt-down in 5, 4, 3…
November 24th, 2007 at 3:16 pmWe can do the same, just have to get rid of our Bushatorshrinking Dick in Nov/2008, and then replace them with people who are not lunatics and don’t drink oil at breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
Then our troops can come home and some of them be eventually used to protect our borders. By then the new WH won’t have any reason to keep the borders open for the drug dealers.* I believe even Compeana and Ramos will be able to get out of prison.
* Check this site: Bush pardoned FIVE DRUG DEALERS, but not the 2 cops who were fighting drug dealing. Tell me that this WH is “cartel-free” !!! See it:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18709
November 24th, 2007 at 3:23 pm#30 Starve-A-Bush
wrote : [ Bush visited Australia just two months ago to try to pop up Howard's failing campaign. He even sent General Petraeus there to talk to the media..],
But all went bad for Howard when Bush used the word Austria,instead of Australia in his speech…then Bush addressed the APEC summit thinking it was OPEC.
November 24th, 2007 at 3:57 pmOh, and before you cut ‘n run again, pussy, I have another question: do you believe that Bush has applied conservative economic principles to his governance?
Comment by VerbalKint
You are not allowed to ask this particularly stupid troll questions. He’s just here to throw out ridiculous lies and then he sits back and watches people here go ballistic. When that happens, he giggles and thinks up the next outrageous thing he is going to post before he runs off again. Just report this stupid troll and move on.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pmI’ll say. America is fully responsible for the world’s troubles. Their inability to share the wealth has created mass problems.
I’m glad to see a concerned world patriot in you, friend.
Comment by Cambio de Orden — November 24, 2007 @ 1:39 pm
November 24th, 2007 at 4:08 pmThink it may be multi national corporations, many from America? When you look at the entire picture it appears we may be going in this direction:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CWBTL33MpA Bush Sr words on NWO That one phrase he makes is very chilling…..
We have a corporate Main Stream Media unconstitutionally keeping the masses asleep while the fix is in action.
Any person who accepts the 30 pieces of silver by Bush/Cheney will fall that’s a given. Howard would have made history with his 5th win as President. But he team up with a Satan worshipper like Bush and will always be remembered as a sell out to a true idiot who happen to be the President of the United States. I hope Howard got alot of US dollars for his support of the Bush Crime Family because he’ll need it. Good news for the families of the Military troops who will coming home at last.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:15 pmI was a bit surprised when Canada elected conservative Harper, and then Germany elected Merkel and now Sarkozy in France. We’ll see how all that goes. So I”m glad to see Australia turning a bit left at least.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:17 pmny times sees success in iraq Link
sickening.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pmsickening.
Comment by growaspine — November 24, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Agreed. anybody that continues to buy this administration’s propaganda and lies is sickening, even dems.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:27 pmBut back on topic: Australia has an excellent single-payer health care system, far superior to the U.S. private insurance crime racket.
Comment by VerbalKint — November 24, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
Also, aren’t all Australians required to vote? If they don’t isn’t there a fine to pay?
That would never happen here as the neocons DO NOT WANT THE MASSES TO VOTE…. if so the dems would always win and we would have a true democracy.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:43 pmWhat is Mr. Pee doing here?
November 24th, 2007 at 5:01 pmStill no mention of Howard’s defeat on Faux Noise. Lots of reporting on Natalie Holloway, though.
November 24th, 2007 at 5:15 pmQuestion. Who’s doing the “allowing�
Comment by BARTLEBEE
That was said in snark. Just pointing out that this particularly stupid troll never answers questions, he just hits and runs.
November 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pmRatty Howard-Two time Loser.
-GSD
November 24th, 2007 at 5:59 pmActually our presence in Iraq played very little part in this election. The defining factor was ‘Work Choices’ – which removed workers rights and unfair dismissal laws. He was also trying to destroy unions, all on behalf of his mates in big business.
Fortunately Australians are strong trade unionists – and they certainly spoke out at the polls yesterday.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:16 pmAlso, aren’t all Australians required to vote? If they don’t isn’t there a fine to pay?
Yes, and thank goodness for that – although I have never seen a voter turn-out as huge as yesterdays.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:18 pmLost Howard, but gained Sarkozy, Harper, Merkel, Rasmussen, Reinfeldt
November 24th, 2007 at 9:55 pmRe: comment #79 — The following quote is quite revealing…
“How many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome? Good government! They want everybody to vote! I don’t want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections, quite candidly, goes up as voting populace goes down.†— Paul Weyrich, co-founder of the Heritage Foundation and the Free Congress Foundation was taped while speaking in private, at a church, to Republican activists (i.e., 15,000 conservative preachers at gathering in Dallas, Tx — 1980)
November 24th, 2007 at 9:58 pmwhy would you want those who do not care and who have not bothered to inform themselves? (aside from the fact that they are most likely to respond positively to someone promising something for free)
any of those who want these people to vote should have the courage of their convictions and demand a pilot who has never learned to fly next on their time up
November 24th, 2007 at 10:08 pmComment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
You might want to check the history books re. “Democracy”. We didn’t invent it and have never achieved it. Why? Because we have never had a truly representative electorate. Universal suffrage is the ONLY way to achieve a democratic society and that’s not going to happen any time soon.
Once the electorate is small enough all pretense, of democracy, will disappear.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:18 pmAw man Johnsons Howard lost.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:22 pm#88 schnoor
any of those who want these people to vote should have the courage of their convictions and demand a pilot who has never learned to fly next on their time up
Yeah, you’re right. We shouldn’t let the common folk vote in our elections. And, to be fair, we shouldn’t make them fight our wars, either. Deal?
November 24th, 2007 at 10:29 pmComment by pete — November 24, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
so under democracy you not free to vote “I don’t care” or “I dont know?” add these choices to the ballot and I might i could start to see a justification for compulsory voting laws.
putting a gun to someone’s head and forcing them to vote doesn’t seem very democratic to me.
we have universal suffrage, we do not have universal participation – look for 90+ percent turnout and you’ll almost always find a castro, saddam,kim jong il….
November 24th, 2007 at 10:31 pmBush ally defeated in Australian elections
Another one bites the dust. First it was Aznar, then Berlusconi, and then Blair. Now Howard gets bumped off. It’s like carving out another chunk of George W. Bush and flushing it down the shitter.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:32 pmComment by chimpeach — November 24, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
anyone can vote if they want, we let everyone vote. we just do not put a gun to their heads and tell them they have to.
Our military is 100% voluntary, so sure, nobody has to fight in our wars as it is.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:36 pmComment by chimpeach — November 24, 2007 @ 10:32 pm
then there was Sarkozy l’americain, Merkel, Harper, Rasmussen, Reinfeldt….
November 24th, 2007 at 10:45 pmnow Brown says “It is no secret that I have been a lifelong admirer of the United States†and is getting tough on Iran
Comment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
Australia managed 13 out of 20 million with a $20.00 fine (no “guns pointed at heads”) while here a “big turnout” is around 20%. Which is beside the point.
Any restriction on voters: race, sex, economic, education, etc. serves to thwart the democratic process. Based on your limited knowledge of democracy perhaps you shouldn’t vote?
November 24th, 2007 at 10:56 pmComment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
lf an australian refuses to pay…at some point it ends as a gun to the head, yes.
based on you limited knowledge of logic and the concept of a non-sequitur, perhaps you should not post
I agree that any restriction thwarts the process but you have not pointed to any restrictions in place. I am for fewer restrictions – one should not have to vote if one does not care to.
If anything you are advocating unfairly forcing the poor to vote while the rich can just pay the fine.
I’m sure you’d be equally dismissive of $20 if I thought all med co-pays should go up that much….you’d squeeeel
November 24th, 2007 at 11:19 pmComment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
20% is not a big turnout in the US. be honest. for presidential elections, we average something like 2/3 of those registered or about half of those eligible. we do not talk about big turnouts until we get up to 80% or more of registered voters. off year elections are lower, but like 15 points lower.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:28 pmPoetic justice, another Bush poodle bites the dust.
November 24th, 2007 at 11:30 pmComment by Arn Gunnutes — November 24, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
no need to yell.
like doing all the heavy lifting is new to the US. more interested in basing, flyover rights, political support than keeping the few percent of foreign troops in Iraq.
So long as the blue helmets don’t show up – then you know everything is going to hell
November 24th, 2007 at 11:46 pmComment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Oops! I meant 40% I had the $20.00 stuck in my head. And you’re correct, it’s higher in presidential elections. However, I don’t think we do enough to make it clear that voting is a duty, and responsibility, as well as a right.
As for med co-pays, mine went up more than $20.00 over the last 3 years, but, that’s an entirely different subject. On that note, I’m going to take my expensive meds and go to bed.
G’night humans.
November 25th, 2007 at 12:02 amYou too trolls.
Comment by schnoor — November 24, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
I have a right to keep and bear arms, but I have a duty and a responsibility not to shoot at things I cannot see or when I’m unsure of my backstop.
Don’t vote if you don’t have a good idea for what you are voting. We have enough trouble with reasonably well informed people (”man, whoulda thought socialized medicine would turn out to be so bad!”, “boy I never saw the bankruptcy of Social Security Federally Imposed Ponzi Scheme coming!”)
November 25th, 2007 at 12:44 amComment by Arn Gunnutes — November 24, 2007 @ 11:28 pm
Pretty sure all bold counts as yelling. regardless I do see a lot of caps as well.
You’re a Ron Paul supporter, right?
November 25th, 2007 at 12:48 amArn, come on, You’re a Ron Paul supporter, right? Got a 9-11 truth link for me too?
November 25th, 2007 at 1:18 amArn, site you linked to does not appear to be up
November 25th, 2007 at 1:33 amwhich is, of course, a horrible tragedy most certainly
November 25th, 2007 at 1:34 am“No, deadbeat ass, I don’t believe that Bush has employed enough conservative economic principles. Most conservatives don’t believe that.”
Comment by cold_hard_left
“Conservative economic principles” is any oxymoron. Most conservatives only believe in mouthing platitudes. When it comes down to actual policies and practice, they spend OPM like drunken sailors.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:13 amDon’t vote if you don’t have a good idea for what you are voting. We have enough trouble with reasonably well informed people (â€man, whoulda thought socialized medicine would turn out to be so bad!â€, “boy I never saw the bankruptcy of Social Security Federally Imposed Ponzi Scheme coming!â€)
Comment by schnoor — November 25, 2007 @ 12:44 am
Socialized medicine works very well for every Western nation except the USA, which hasn’t attempted it yet, so your strawman is now ashes. Same with Social Security, another strawman of yours burned to ashes and blown away in the hot air that you substitute for thought.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:57 amNo, deadbeat ass, I don’t believe that Bush has employed enough conservative economic principles. Most conservatives don’t believe that.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 25, 2007 @ 9:08 am
And why do you think he has failed to do so?
November 25th, 2007 at 11:07 am“And why do you think he has failed to do so?”
I will supply the requisite lefty kneejerk ad hominem summation (because I enjoy it, that’s why, and it’s so easy): because GWB is a spoiled smirking frat boy failure who enjoys liberally spending the $ he never had to lift a finger to earn.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:30 ambq – yes, and…. is that all you got?
I suspect dbadass may have been hoping for a little more of a thoughtful response.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:52 am“I suspect dbadass may have been hoping for a little more of a thoughtful response.”
Tough nipples. Sometimes all I have the stomach for any more is a bit of snark. BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD.
November 25th, 2007 at 1:50 pmI want to see Bush gagging and choking in his own blood.
November 25th, 2007 at 2:05 pmTough Nipples?
November 25th, 2007 at 2:41 pmComment by Lefty Patriot — November 25, 2007 @ 10:57 am
They are all privatizing. they have far lower survivability rates for all major diseases (10 to 50 point under the US) Waiting list for 1 to 2 years for specialists/surgeries/scans, thriving “medical tourism” industries where Canadians come to the US – EU goes to India and elsewhere for the medical care their countries do not/will not provide or that the consumers cannot wait for.
Socialized medicine is dreadful. US ranks #1 for speed, customer satisfaction, quality, cure/survivability, choice, etc across all income levelsaccording to WHO – this is the category called “responsiveness” when they look at heath care. All other factors do not have to do with medicine, just bizarre notions of fairness (if everyone in a given country dies at age 40 it is FAIR! and that country gets high marks). 80+% of new meds and tech come from the US as the socialized world refuses to invest. 15000 oldsters died in France because they refuse to by air conditioning for hospitals and nursing home – 2nd time it has happened on such a scale
sorry, lived with socialized medicine and you are better off being dirt poor in the US than average abroad.
and yes the european SS systems are bankrupt now – 1 to 2 people working for each pensioner. untenable.
no hot air – FACTS my insulting bumper sticker repeating buddy
November 25th, 2007 at 7:21 pmF_ck Israel!
Comment by Cambio de Orden — November 24, 2007 @ 1:38 pm
Oh look! A Honduran Jewphobe. How nice. Piss off.
November 26th, 2007 at 9:38 am