Memo To New York Post: The Bush Administration Was Warned About 9/11
Memo To New York Post: The Bush Administration Was Warned About 9/11
New York Post reporter Andy Soltis writes of the latest Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll that finds a great majority of Americans believe the government failed to heed warnings about 9/11. Soltis writes that this poll shows increasing support for 9/11 “conspiracy theories”:
Nearly two-thirds of Americans believe the federal government had warnings about 9/11 but decided to ignore them, a national survey found.
And that’s not the only conspiracy theory with a huge number of true believers in the United States. [...]
Sixty-two percent of those polled thought it was “very likely” or “somewhat likely” that federal officials turned a blind eye to specific warnings of the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon.
The NY Post’s headline blares: “‘Blame U.S. For 9/11′ Idiots In Majority.” As frequent readers of this site are well aware, ThinkProgress does not condone 9/11 conspiracy theories which allege the attacks were an inside job. But whether the Bush administration failed to heed warnings of a terrorist strike is not a conspiracy theory — it is a fact.
Here are some bits of information the NY Post may want to read up on:
1) Bush received intel briefing on Aug. 6, 2001 entitled “Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US.” The briefing specifically warned to “patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks,” particularly targeted at New York.
2) CIA Director George Tenet briefing Condoleezza Rice and other top administration officials on July 10, 2001 about a specific urgent and looming threat from al Qaeda.
3) An FBI agent in Phoenix sent a memo to FBI headquarters on July 10, 2001, which advised of the “possibility of a coordinated effort” by bin Laden to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation schools.
The alarming nature of the Scripps poll is not that 62 percent of Americans believe the government ignored warnings of 9/11; it’s that nearly 40 percent still aren’t aware of that fact.
UPDATE: Malkin proudly trumpets the NY Post story as evidence of “America: Tinfoil hat nation.”
UPDATE II: Atrios pulls up this gem from the archives:
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the right pins the conspiracy on Clinton.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:18 pmbut all of the sane people know Bush is incapable of competence, and 9/11 was caused by his incompetence, or worse.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:19 pmA book “The new pearl harbour” by David Ray Griffin states more facts that Bush new it would happen
His new book ” the 911 truths and ommisions report” is even better
62 percent of Americans believe the government ignored warnings of 9/11
How true
40 percent still aren’t aware of that fact.
Really that 29%ers who know perfectly well but blank it from their unimaginative brains and the remaining 11% are unaware as of yet
November 25th, 2007 at 3:20 pmcool! I’m alone in this thread! so, what’s shakin’?
November 25th, 2007 at 3:20 pmKeep the public dumbed down and uninformed so they can be more easily manipulated.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:21 pmWTC7 Proves it
November 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pm24% are willfully ignorant….why? I can’t imagine.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:24 pmWhy doesn’t “Think Progress” believe that 911 could have been a conspiracy by the FASCIST BUSH?? Are you playing your “I’m not crazy card?”
Nothing would surprise me my friends!! And don’t think for one second these FASCIST BASTARDS aren’t capable!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 3:24 pmIm amazed the democrats have not done their own report on 911
But then again they are republicans also
November 25th, 2007 at 3:25 pmThere is a truism that holds that there is always 10% that never get the word. It is also a truism among 30% of the sheep that King George the Dumb can do no wrong. Together they account for the 40%. Extrapolation then give us the truism that 100% of the thinking and aware citizens in this Country believe that the bushco administration was, in some way, shape, or form, responsible for 9/11. It is also a truism that it is time for criminal charges against the bunch. Forget impeachment, start a new truism and hang the guilty bastards.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:25 pmThe fact the media is scared of showing WTC7 , proves it
November 25th, 2007 at 3:28 pmComment by Clyde the Ripper — November 25, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Excellent post….expresses my sentiments exactly.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:29 pmMind you 33% of Americans believe God is going to show up this year and every year there after, Just shows how mad America really is
November 25th, 2007 at 3:30 pmHere’s the Aug. 6th PDB-The Smoking Gun.
After reading it, how can anyone say the Bush administration wasn’t warned?
November 25th, 2007 at 3:34 pmMalkin now turns on the citizens of America.
She’s a fair-weather fascist.
-GSD
November 25th, 2007 at 3:37 pmTP Friends: Pee brain is banned for life from TP and has resorted to dispatching his mafia lieutenants to our progressive platform. Continue to keep a good lookout for them.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:50 pmRon Paul wants to reopen the 911 investigations to find out who failed on that day and the months before and exactly how so that we can prevent any future disaster and possibly punish those that should have received punishment in the first place….
Do you think he means it? What about Hillary or Obama? Will they just talk about it or DO it?
November 25th, 2007 at 3:53 pmI think only the 29%ers read the NY Post.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:53 pmthe infinitely tall wall between the general consensus that bush/ Cheney
are the anti-chirst and the idea that they would stage a terror attack to fascilitate their plans baffles the mind. (my mind at least)
how can you believe in one breath that they are capable of killings thousands of US soldiers, hundreds of thousands of Iraq’s , and in the next breath think staging a terror attack on a few tall building is complete lunacy?
November 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pmMore intelligent insight from Bart.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:58 pmPuh-leeeeeeeeeze…most of my fellow New Yorkers will tell you that the New York Post is far from being a source of objective journalism. It’s owned by Rupert Murdoch — ’nuff said.
November 25th, 2007 at 3:59 pmAnd lest we forget, GWB’s vapid response to the topline CIA briefer who told him in detail the intel on an impending attack just prior to 9/11:
“Ok, you’ve covered your ass now.”
Guess our illustrious prez was thinking along the lines of the one reason he might impart this kind of news…
November 25th, 2007 at 4:02 pmThe Post obviously forgets its own (misleading) headline from May 16, 2002: “BUSH KNEW“
November 25th, 2007 at 4:11 pmA snippet of Ms. Alexandrovna’s take on this:
“In any case, the poll question asks something that is not theoretical (were there warnings? yes there were) and how the public feels the federal government handled themselves (badly is the apparent consensus). How does that equal tin foil, inside job, and hatred of America?”
http://www.atlargely.com/2007/11/hey-malkin-osam.html#comments
November 25th, 2007 at 4:16 pm6 years later and the NYP is finally getting around to this?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:19 pmI will bet a greater percentage around the world as compared to the US believes Bush knew and that there may be conspiracy tied to 9/11.
Ironically, this ‘tin-foiled hat nation’ rallied around and supported Bush with a 88% approval rating after 2002.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:19 pmIronically, this ‘tin-foiled hat nation’ rallied around and supported Bush with a 88% approval rating after 2002.
Comment by djames — November 25, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
I don’t believe that for a minute.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pmTinfoil hat nation? Like believing that Hillary had Vince Foster murdered, or that Bill Clinton was involved in drug-running and murders in Mena, Arkansas?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:21 pmIronically, this ‘tin-foiled hat nation’ rallied around and supported Bush with a 88% approval rating after 2002.
Comment by djames — November 25, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
Most of that was based on our, perfectly natural, wish for revenge. And, since then, we have learned to judge him by his actions. It’s hard to imagine anyone else going from 88% approval to “worst president ever”.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:26 pmThe infinitely tall wall between the general consensus that Bush/ Cheney
are the Anti-Christ and the idea that they would stage a terror attack to fascilitate their plans baffles the mind (my mind at least)
how can you believe in one breath that they are capable of killings thousands of US soldiers, hundreds of thousands of Iraq’s , and in the next breath think staging a terror attack on a few tall building is complete lunacy? — Vietnow
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Not to mention the rather interesting fact that at least four of the founding members of PNAC (Project for a New American Century) — i.e., Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, and Paul Wolfowitz — are or have been prominent figures in the Bush administration alongside Bush’s own brother Jeb. As far back as 1997, PNAC was stating their belief that Saddamn Hussein needed to be removed from power — and quite some time before 9/11 ever happened, they postulated the idea that one of the best ways to get the American people to support their perspective would be if America were to suffer another attack along the lines of Pearl Harbor. Even if you refuse to believe that people in the Bush administration had advance knowledge of 9/11 and chose not to act, you have to admit that it is an unbelievably uncanny (not to mention remarkably convenient) coincidence…
November 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pmI, too, supported Bush after 9/11, even though I thought he stole the election (or, more precisely, it was stolen for him).
I supported him because I love my country and it was a time of crisis. So, like any good American, I stood behind our president despite all my misgivings of him.
He has, since that time, proven that he was and is utterly unworthy of that trust which many, many Americans placed in him. Like his father, he pissed away the goodwill of the 90% of the country which supported him.
Especially after he abused that goodwill to lie us into a war which we didn’t have to fight, a war which has been disastrously and incompetently run, he deserves nothing less than being tarred and feathered and run out of DC on a rail.
Straight to The Hague for war crimes trials.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:32 pmSpeaking of tinfoil nutters and Malkin, who accused the AP of some conspiracy [Bwah], is Bill Oreilly still pushing his conspiracy theory of war on Christmas?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:35 pmAs frequent readers of this site are well aware, ThinkProgress does not condone [treat as acceptable] 9/11 conspiracy theories which allege the attacks were an inside job.
And why not? There has not been a criminal investigation, after all. How can TP rule out any suspects? Why is it acceptable to consider only the theories that put blame on a man in a cave, and not consider theories that put blame on a man in a white house?
Can TP put definitive evidence out there to rule out an inside job? If so, I would like to see it.
The “official” explanation contains an impossibility – the cell phone calls from 40,000 feet.
Who are you protecting by not insisting on a full investigation into all possible suspects?
Quite frankly, the “inside job” theory makes more logical sense than the “bin Laden” theory, in my opinion.
How about it, ThinkProgress; care to call for an independent prosecutor to conduct a criminal investigation?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:38 pmI supported him because I love my country and it was a time of crisis. So, like any good American, I stood behind our president despite all my misgivings of him. -Renato
Thanks for your honesty and your ability to think on your own. Spare Aude!
Patriotism has nothing to do with standing beside the goverment but standing beside your country.
It is our duty to criticise the government for it is our servant and not our master.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:38 pmUm Sapre Aude. =)
November 25th, 2007 at 4:39 pmrenato….you stated how most sane people (including myself) felt after 9/11. I totally agree. Well done.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pmIsrael can go sh_t itself!
November 25th, 2007 at 4:41 pmEither way someone conspired to take out the towers. Conspire means really only an organised planned attack.
A group of people planned, conspired to take out Kennedy, we just dont know who.
I think the word conspired has been skewed to automatically mean something it isnt. Its like saying UFO, people immediately assume you saw a space ship from the pleiades with little green men when it means no such thing.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:44 pmQuite frankly, the “inside job†theory makes more logical sense than the “bin Laden†theory, in my opinion.
How about it, ThinkProgress; care to call for an independent prosecutor to conduct a criminal investigation?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I have to agree. Push for a full criminal investigation NOW.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:45 pmRead Sec of Transportation’s Norman Mineta’s testimony to the 911 commision and you can see how Cheney handled our airspace.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:45 pmWhy has there been no investigation into the Air Forces lack of response? Is this the smoking gun?
OK, TP – does that tell you it is time for you to stop banning posts about 911 and the possibility that the government was complicit?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:54 pmhow can you believe in one breath that they are capable of killings thousands of US soldiers, hundreds of thousands of Iraq’s , and in the next breath think staging a terror attack on a few tall building is complete lunacy?
Comment by vietnow
That’s not what most people are saying, loon. They are saying that Bush had forewarning about 911 and allowed it to happen because he saw that it would be to his advantage. People on this thread are not saying that Bush and Company staged 911 (even though that is a possibility), but that they sat idly by and allowed it to happen. Now, please go back to redstate.
November 25th, 2007 at 4:59 pmRead Sec of Transportation’s Norman Mineta’s testimony to the 911 commision and you can see how Cheney handled our airspace.
Why has there been no investigation into the Air Forces lack of response? Is this the smoking gun?
Comment by gumby — November 25, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
I’ve never felt that the lack of response via aircraft has been sufficiently explained. My understanding is that there was a “drill” going on at the time but couldn’t they have gotten word to ANY of the military aircraft in the area that “this is not a drill!” and intercept asap?
November 25th, 2007 at 4:59 pmStart with this for a rational look for the investigation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwQa5eokieY&feature=related
November 25th, 2007 at 4:59 pmOne mustn’t forget that all the knowledge collected before 9/11 pointed to various Saudis. Busheses (yes, I just made that up) don’t do anything that might upset the House of Saud.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:08 pmThe Secretary Defense allowed the nerve center of his operations(Pentagon) to be hit by a hostile enemy force and instead of being fired he was allowed to run the war against Iraq.
Smells bad to me.
-GSD
November 25th, 2007 at 5:11 pmI have a question. Has Osama bin Laden ever actually claimed to be responsible for 911 or has he just allowed people to think that’s the case once the government declared him responsible? And if he has declared himself responsible, why does his wanted poster have him for the crime of attacking the Cole and not for attacking the US on 911?
Inquiring minds need to know.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:11 pmGeorge W. Bush stood idly by while evil elements have launched a war on Christmas too!
-GSD
November 25th, 2007 at 5:13 pmWhere’s the “85% believe an incorporeal being gives a shit about them”?
November 25th, 2007 at 5:14 pmThank you TP for running this article and “allowing” comments on 9/11. This event is at the heart of the progressive responsibility.
TP, Americablog, crooks and liars (especially crooks and liars) are in danger of becoming a scrubbed, sterile source for the many progressive people who are seeking answers, dialouge and community in the MSB mainstream blogs. The passion over the unanswered questions surrounding 911 is one of very few unifying concerns. This is a great way to win over the undecided because most have decided that the official story is shaky at best.
Make this a central issue of concern when engaging ‘08 candidates.
With respect and kindness to all.
TP and Faiz – Thanks again for runnig this!
PS Join us Cenk, Join us Maher.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:15 pmBilbo, let’s operate in reality a little bit here. I appreciate that TP is not going to post stuff that’s not substantiated with evidence. Now, you’re just started to make things up. Bin Laden has been taped talking about 9/11:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14726670/
And yes, he has claimed responsibility:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
November 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pmBilbo, let’s operate in reality a little bit here. I appreciate that TP is not going to post stuff that’s not substantiated with evidence. Now, you’re just started to make things up. Bin Laden has been taped talking about 9/11:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14726670/
And yes, he has claimed responsibility:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
Comment by Hank — November 25, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
Hank,
Linking to Fox is a hit against your credibility. Heads up on that.
Also, Produce for me a video or link of a plane hitting the pentagon. Not a few vague frames and such that has been officially released.
I am not asking you to be an expert on controlled demolition, or melting steel or missing bodies. i do not care what your party is or who your support goes to. I am not even saying conspiracy. I am simply in desire of a link to the footage of a plane attacking the pentagon.
There were hundreds of cameras pointing in all directions at the time of impact. Where is the footage? You seen it? Why not? Who cares what Bin Laden says. What do your eyes say? Not the eyewitness accounts afterward. What do your eyes say? Do they say you have seen this footage? Why not? Please join in asking this question.
With respect and kindness to you my friend Hank. Peace be with you.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:25 pm#54 – I read somewhere recently where someone had actually phoned the FBI Headquarters and asked why OBL wasn’t listed as “most wanted” for the crime of 9/11, and they told the person that they didn’t have him listed because they had no real evidence that he was responsible for the crime. (Or something very close to that).
November 25th, 2007 at 5:25 pmSo, what is that supposed to mean?
I’m betting that the plans to invade Iraq were done in the secret energy meetings that Scalia won’t let the American people see the minutes of. We know that there were maps released showing the country’s oil being divvied up. Assuming Dick was hard at work planning the hostile acquisition of Iraq National Oil and their $100 trillion dollar reserves….all that was missing was a justification to invade. The fabricated WMD reasoning could never have been accepted without 9/11 as a backdrop. Remember, when the IWR was being debated, we hadn’t yet had a report from the 9/11 Commission.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:27 pmSee, guys like Bill Maher react to any mention of Bush administration responsibility for 911 like its taboo or something. He acts like anyone considering it is wacko and just weaving conspiracy tales.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
And Yet, I heard right out of Bill Maher’s mouth, “I don’t believe ANYTHING that comes out of Bush’s mouth”. Amy Goodman and Noam Chomsky are also part of what is known as “Left – Gatekeepers”. Either these people are being funded by Likud Party Loyalists, or they relate “Conspiracies” to people like Alex Jones. Sure Alex, Mike Rivero of Whatreallyhappened, and other Right Wing Commentators and Bloggists have ass-backward social ideas and their denial of Global Warming is almost comical, but they are spot on when it comes to two essential facts………9/11 and the Police State. The Lefties are afraid they will look like nuts by agreeing with some of the militia guys. So in essence, lefties don’t believe anything from Bush, EXCEPT 9/11.
My smoking guns were WTC7 and the NORAD stand down.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:34 pmThe progression is occurring of the majority of americans who believe that at least this government was irresponsible and culpable in 911. Soon it may progress into the next realm of realization that it may have even been a False Flag Op.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pmMy ’smoking gun’ is the precise timing of the “war games” which were ongoing on 9/10 and 9/11. Very suspicious timing of events.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:35 pmWhat better way to weave a web than to plan a war game which has precisely the same scenario?? Clever but not clever enough to not be a “smoking gun”.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pmAs for the NORAD stand down, it was critical that a “civilian” and not a military general be in charge of NORAD – enter Bush Puppet: Rumsfeld.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:37 pmThe conspiracy ball is gathering momentum and will take this administration under and into jail when it hits fully.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:38 pmComment by criticalthinker — November 25, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
I think that TP does believe in the thin line between speculation and libel. Especially when ruthless people control the courts. Frankly, I’m surprised that anyone prints any doubts about 9/11.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 5:19 pm
As a person who doesn’t speak Arabic, or Farsi, I have some doubts about anything that’s translated by a government agent/agency. Personally, I’ve never been convinced that OBL is who they claim he is. I’ve never been convinced he (if he is really him) is the head of AQ. I’ve never been convinced he was in Afghanistan. I’m not convinced he is still alive. And, I’m certainly not convinced he still exercises operational control of any terrorist organization.
I am super-duper not convinced that anyone can control an international movement, by cell phone, from a mountain cave. But, I’m a difficult person to convince. Many others are more credulous.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:39 pm#70
My ’smoking gun’ is the precise timing of the “war games†which were ongoing on 9/10 and 9/11. Very suspicious timing of events.
Yes, and amazingly FEMA was in NY on Sept 10, BECAUSE the war games called for planes flying into the WTC. BUT CONDI…Oh we never could have thought of that. FU(kING LIAR.
Scroll down and look at the covers of the “Emergency Response to TERRORISM” Self study guide”
It is basically a bullseye ON THE FLOORS WHERE THE PLANES HIT!!!!!
How can this NOT be a CRAZY FLASHING RED LIGHT ON YOUR DASHBOARD?????
November 25th, 2007 at 5:43 pmIt just defies logic that a crime against this country on that scale, killing that many people, was never allowed to be thoroughly investigated. Physical evidence was not allowed to be examined. Videotapes were confiscated and locked away from public access.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:44 pmThat is the part I have the hardest time with. Why not allow an investigation? It was an enormous crime. If it brings out the truth, the weaknesses in our system, defines things that need to be fixed or things that went wrong, exposes people that may have been culpable, those are all things that need to be known so that we can fix what doesn’t work and people would be held accountable for whatever role they played. It is only logical.
That was never allowed to happen. The 9/11 Commission Report was not an investigation. It was a sorry whitewash. Anyone who tries to ask any logical questions is immediately vilified and marginalized, called a conspiracy theorist or a kook.
What is NOT logical is just accepting what we are told, like sheep, with no evidence to back it up. That is just wrong.
Most Americans just want an investigation so they can KNOW the truth, and not have all these doubts and questions – whoever is responsible or whatever the outcome, we just need to know. That is all we want. The truth – and accountability.
If it happened the way the administration says, then an investigation would bear that out, and the questions would stop. We were never given that chance. I doubt we ever will.
Thanks TP for posting this.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:44 pmWell thats interesting. I’d like to see a reference for it though, but it sure is interesting.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 5:21 pm
Here are some sources – of course, I’ve seen nothing official from mainstream sources, but, then, I’ve not read a whole lot about 9/11 in the MSM – it’s like the topic of 9/11 is verbotten.
I found 32,000 references to “9/11 and simulated hijackings”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×1694495
November 25th, 2007 at 5:44 pmhttp://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/080406_one_wargame.shtml
Bilbo, let’s operate in reality a little bit here. I appreciate that TP is not going to post stuff that’s not substantiated with evidence. Now, you’re just started to make things up. Bin Laden has been taped talking about 9/11:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14726670/
And yes, he has claimed responsibility:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,137095,00.html
Comment by Hank
No, Hank, I am not making anything up. I was asking a question. I truly did not remember ever hearing Osama take responsibility and I also find it unusual that the government does not have him on a wanted poster for committing 911.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:48 pmWhat about it?
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 5:44 pm
WTC7 was the 3rd building that collapsed, later in the day, in the same manner the first 2 did. It wasn’t hit by a plane, but collapsed none the less, hours later. The MSM has done a MARVELOUS job of keeping this out of the public arena. How do you hide the fact that a building collapsed all by itself?
http://www.wtc7.net/background.html
What Was In Building 7?
Building 7 was one of New York City’s larger buildings. A sleek bronze-colored skyscraper with a trapezoidal footprint, it occupied an entire city block and rose over 600 feet above street level.
I’m not really a conspiracy kinda person (more of a chronic wise *ss…) but this one has me puzzled, both the fact that it happened, and the way the media and the Bsch Admin has steered attention away from it right from the start.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pmWish they’d make as much fuss about the fact that so many people still believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attacks on 9/11!
November 25th, 2007 at 5:58 pmWe went to Iraq not as revenge for 911 but for many other reasons.
Why even bother printing this poll on this site??
Comment by John Kerry — November 25, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Why bother to show up and spew the same pointless lies over and over and over again, “John”??? There is so much funky sh8t oozing out of 9/11, I sure as hell would love to see a truly honest, independent investigation done. the second I heard Herr brusch had decided to put Kissinger in charge of the mess, I knew THAT goose was gonna be cooked to the nth degree.
Try coming up w/ a comment that has some “point”, “John”.
November 25th, 2007 at 5:59 pmComment by John Kerry — November 25, 2007 @ 5:51 pm
Thanks for your concern. It has been noted and given due consideration, coming from a coward who persists in stealing the name of a war hero.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:01 pmLeave it to the JK troll to assert that asking questions makes one a “wacko”.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:02 pmFor now though I can’t say that I know those training drills occured that way, although its certainly possible they did. I just don’t have enough data one way or the other.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 5:55 pm
Precisely why I asked the question. Why wasn’t it asked in the 9/11 Commission hearing? Nothing about the war games were discussed. The thing that leads credence, IMHO, about the simulated hijackings are the people who died that worked at Raytheons RC Systems division….makes sense that they would have been involved if the USAF was testing their system’s ability to take over control of the aircraft during a simulated hijacking event.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:03 pmOr why the FAA tapes of the interviews of the flight controllers on that day were cut up into pieces and placed in different garbage cans throughout the building they were in. With no backup or transcript.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:07 pmYeah, that happens all the time.
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2004/070504shreddingevidence.htm
That’s not what most people are saying, loon. They are saying that Bush had forewarning about 911 and allowed it to happen because he saw that it would be to his advantage. People on this thread are not saying that Bush and Company staged 911 (even though that is a possibility), but that they sat idly by and allowed it to happen. Now, please go back to redstate.
billbobaggins,
Obviously billbo you know nothing about the law. If they allowed it to happen then they are coconspirators and guilty as accessories before the fact which means they are just as guilty as the field agents that executed the attack. This makes them candidates for the death penalty!
November 25th, 2007 at 6:27 pmHere is undeniable proof the BBC had foreknowledge of the WTC7 demolition. A crime that killed at least one person and there is no statute of limitations for murder. So the 2 newscastors in this video are accessories to murder before the fact. not to mention higher ups at the BBC.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:31 pmhttp://www.liveleak.com/view?i=49f_1172526096
Warrants should be sworn out for these 2 BBC newscastors for premeditated murder and the face the death penalty. If they want to cut a deal and name names maybe we’ll take the death penalty off the table.
Why has this not been done already?
This makes them candidates for the death penalty!
Comment by HEh — November 25, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. You may choose any prize from the bottom shelf.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:32 pmThe Mother Issue of Our Time needs to be exposed : 9/11
and the result : The war on Terror is a lie and a fraud.
Talk to Osama Bin Bush – he knows.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:32 pmI have a question. Has Osama bin Laden ever actually claimed to be responsible for 911 or has he just allowed people to think that’s the case once the government declared him responsible? And if he has declared himself responsible, why does his wanted poster have him for the crime of attacking the Cole and not for attacking the US on 911?
Inquiring minds need to know. — bilbobaggins
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Actually, according to one documentary I’ve seen (I think it was “Loose Change”) which probes many of the mysteries still surrounding 9/11, Osama bin Laden has supposedly not only not claimed responsibility for 9/11 but has in fact denied responsibility at least once. According to this documentary, the link between Osama bin Laden and 9/11 is based heavily on a single videotape allegedly produced by al-Qaeda — however, according to this documentary, there are several inexplicable anomalies in this videotape which have led some people to conclude that the person portrayed in this tape is not actually bin Laden but someone attempting to impersonate him. For starters, the images in this videotape are somewhat blurry and out-of-focus whereas other videotapes which have been verified as being of al-Qaeda origin are more in focus. Secondly, the person who is alleged to be Osama bin Laden in this tape is shown writing with the opposite hand with which bin Laden is typically known to write with. Thirdly (and perhaps most damningly), when a still of the person from the videotape — albeit blurry — is placed side-by-side against a still photograph of Osama bin Laden, there appear to be distinct differences in the facial features which the blurriness of the videotape can’t fully disguise. Specifically, the nose in the person from the videotape appears to be noticeably shorter in proportion to the rest of the face than that of the real Osama bin Laden (whose nose is quite long). “Loose Change” does not go so far as to directly accuse the Bush administration of involvement in the events of 9/11 or of orchestrating them — but the documentary is well-worth watching, because it goes into a lot of the loose ends which the media and the government have chosen to gloss over.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:41 pmBluestocking: OBL denied responsibility several times; it’s the Bush Cabal who has been trying to pin it on him.
I like the post above about culpability: “the before the fact conspiracy theory” should put all of them in prison for a very long time.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:43 pmHave a look at how quickly they used it.
Have a look at how ‘the war on terrah’ has been used over and over
to change the fabric of this country to benefit the fascist war-pigs.
Have a look at their invasion, does it seem justifiable to you ?
You don’t think they are capable of killing their own ?
They kill their own every single day.
Knowing it was coming and doing nothing with that knowledge but
preparing to use the result MAKES IT AN ‘INSIDE JOB’.
Then, one of the questions becomes, how much did they know and
November 25th, 2007 at 6:44 pmwhen did they know it ?
Answering that can further the idea of it being an ‘inside job’.
You damn right they knew.
It boggles my mind why people or newspapers or magazines…”does not go so far as to directly accuse the Bush administration of involvement in the events of 9/11 or of orchestrating them”
Why not? What will happen. If they wish to sue you for libel or slander, then they would have to produce evidence that shows your statements are false. And can they??? No. So, in effect we can say whatever the FU(K we want and they can’t do SH|T about it.
FU(K EM.
A government should be afraid of its people, not the other way around.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:45 pmWhich is why I think there needs to be a serious investigation by someone OTHER than the guys we’re investigating.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 6:03 pm
Agreed, Bartles. Again, I’m not a conspiracy kind of person, but there are just so damned many weird details and unacknowledged facts, like the collapse of WTC7, hanging around this mess that I really, really would like to see this looked into again.
Back in 2001 & 2002, I went thru a business collapse that made national headlines. I was only a small player, but I was right at ground zero and knew far more than almost anyone else involved what actually happened.
This situation made national headlines, involved some very big players in a high-profile industry, had the FBI skulking around, blah-ditty-blah-blah.
This is all true. There were even a couple of internet gossip columns devoted to the ongoing saga. Everyone around the edges was so curious about what was going on behind the scenes. So many different people knew this fact or that fact, and they were all trying to guess what it all meant. There was even a Wiki entry about it at the time, and it was a pretty decent guess, but none of it was completely right.
You couldn’t blame the folks involved for being so curious and trying to figure it out for themselves, though. Having been thru that and knowing as much as I did from behnd the scenes, I kind of look at different takes on 9/11 and can see people doing the same thing.
I guess it’s just natural to take pieces of a puzzle as big and confusing and eventful as this and try to make sense of it all. However, until we have all the real info, we don’t know, and I for one would dearly love to know, and I DON’T believe what I’ve been told so far at all.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:46 pmAn observation: Amazing how the consciousness of this country has risen vis-a-vis opening up to the possibility and now probability that the Bush Cabal was “somehow” involved in 911 – either directly or because of “before the fact knowledge” and culpability. This is called “critical mass consciousness” which has been evolving rapidly over the past year.
Those who would prefer to NOT believe such things about those in power who should be “above reproach” and incapable of such heinous crimes are being convinced by the daily litany of corruption, lies, and wrongdoing by this administration. Once the scale is tipped in the corruption side of things, it’s logical that people (now 64%) believe something unsavory about this gang of thugs. Just like our international reputation, it’s changed, perhaps irrevocably, thanks to the war crimes and criminal activities of this administration. Unfortunately, once the scale tips, it doesn’t level itself off or back to where it originated unless a “whole lot of shit” is removed…..which means that this critical mass consciousness regarding 911 and how much Bush, himself, knew will continue to tip in the direction of corruption and complicity unless/until the garbage heap of propaganda and bullshit is dumped from the scale.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:48 pmTRoS: The mountain of evidence which runs contrary to the propaganda we’ve been sold is becoming an avalanche which, by it’s sheer nature (science and eyewitness testimony) will soon cover those left in this administration….which may be precisely why they’re all jumping ship early.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:50 pmWhy has this not been done already?
Comment by HEh — November 25, 2007 @ 6:31 pm
Is this about the television news reporters who announced that WTC7 had collapsed BEFORE it actually went down? That’s ANOTHER one I’d like looked into. Just TOO, TOO many weird, funky detals hanging around unexplained. Why did the MSM avoid talking bout WTC7 so completely?
I don’t know if it’s true, but I heard the 9/11 Commission avoided WTC7 too. Why? How do you NOT acknowledge such a big building falling down?
November 25th, 2007 at 6:53 pmIt’s amazing how on the FBI’s own website : OBL is not listed as wanted for 9/11.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:53 pmThere’s a whole host of sites which contain amazing witness testimony, scientific evidence, and theories about aspects of 911 from which all “bad things” derive – (Patriot Act, loss of habeas corpus, illegal spying, etc.). Without 911, these constitutional “abuses” by the Bush Cabal could not have occurred. 911 became PNAC and AIPAC’s new “wet dream”.
One of the 911 truth sites mentions that the mysterious implosion of Building 7 is due to the fact that this building housed the Enron Files (ahem~!) which preceeded Ken Lay’s demise and trial. More to certainly come on this…..
And, of course, the one individual who was in charge of “WTC security” on 911 was none other than Neil Bush, I believe….(another smoking gun?).
Once this 911 avalanche begins to come down the mountain, it will begin to resemble a tsunami and it’s heading for Penna. Avenue right now.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:55 pmHi Kay: I understand that OBL has never been listed as a bona fide enemy. People are beginning to believe that he never left the employ of the CIA who hired him and trained him to help drive the Russians from Afghanistan. Of course, GWB and OBL were childhood buddies and their families vacationed together. Amazing that we claim to have such sophisticated intel and yet we can’t find OBL??? Something’s wrong with that picture for sure.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:57 pmthe problem with whitewashing “conspiracy theories” as nonsense is history. Iran-Contra, Operation Gladio, Watergate etc were all ridiculed in the same way, yet they all turned out to be true. Plus there is the inconvenience of mountains of circumstantial evidence, most of which you can find here.
What you will find is an impressive trail of stonewalling. Not incompetance. Behind the Phoenix memo story you will find that certain actors sat on or buried the intel. The same happened when agents picked up the scent on several of the hijackers. They were prevented from persuing the matter. It can also be shown that most of the hijackers obtained their visas through one embassy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, through very suspect methods and no oversight. One guy protested and he was shipped out.
You dont even need to waste time with controlled demolitions or missiles.
But most damning of all is the history of state sponsored “False Flag” terrorism. And for a peek through the keyhole on such events i recommend the following book: Nato’s Secret Armies. Read that and you will see that 9/11 could indeed be a false flag operation. BTW this book is an academic peice and is infact the authors published Phd.
Also, Bush may well have had knowledge of the impending attack, but that doesnt mean he knew who was involved. Read the above book and you will discover that sitting governments and politicians were the last to find out.
November 25th, 2007 at 6:58 pmOnce some more of this info hits the streets like today’s headlines, the GOP will have absolutely NO REASON whatsoever to even run a candidate in 08. Why would anyone waste their time and money at that point?
November 25th, 2007 at 6:59 pmComment by espo I OWE YOU AN APOLOGY
I made a mistake by calling you a troll and I offer you a sincere apology. There is no excuse for what I did, I’m sorry. It was foolish to jump to conclusions, based on a google search of past comments. I was not acting ethically or or intelligently ,when I chose not to read more of your other comments.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:00 pmAs frequent readers of this site are well aware, ThinkProgress does not condone 9/11 conspiracy theories which allege the attacks were an inside job. But whether the Bush administration failed to heed warnings of a terrorist strike is not a conspiracy theory — it is a fact.
Faiz, I will respect your site policy. But I feel it necessary to point out that the fact that the Bush Administration failed to heed warnings of a terrorist strike is not only a fact, it is a fact that happens to conform to the idea posited by some that the attacks were an inside job. It doesn’t prove those theories, but absolutely does nothing to disprove them, either. I’ll stop there, and thank you for posting an item about 9/11, and for making your policy on the subject more clear (which would be best to do each itme.)
November 25th, 2007 at 7:00 pmIs this about the television news reporters who announced that WTC7 had collapsed BEFORE it actually went down?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007
Yes If you click the link you can clearly watch the reporters discussing the collapse of WTC7 while it is clearly still standing behind her. The news report started around 4:57PM EST. WTC7 was demolished at 5:27PM EST.
This is clear evidence of foreknowledge and accessory to murder (not to mention insurance fraud and numerous other crimes) before the fact.
I repeat this is ample evidence for warrants to be sworn out against these newscastors and charges to be levied.
Here is the link again in case you missed it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=49f_1172526096
This is a good starting point for a real investigation. Charge these “reporters” and watch them sing. You will get a trail right to the real culprits pretty damn quick.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:04 pmFor anyone who just can’t bring themselves to believe it could be an inside job (false flag operation) just ask yourself this critical question:
November 25th, 2007 at 7:05 pmHow is the killing of these people to enable a war of choice in Iraq and an eternal war on terror which defiles our constitutional rights be any different than the level of nonchalance regarding the daily sacrifice of now over 4,000 of our innocent patriots?? It’s a “no brainer”. They could care less about the unnecessary deaths of our military and the Iraqi people – can you really deceive yourself into believing that they would care about the “collateral damage” of those lost in the WTC?? Come now…do a “gut check”. Humans are hardwired for “truth” and can smell a rat a mile away. Do a gut check and ask yourself how the killing of innocent victims in NY is any different to this gang of capricious thugs than what they’re doing to our military in Iraq every day of the week.
And, of course, the one individual who was in charge of “WTC security†on 911 was none other than Neil Bush, I believe….(another smoking gun?).
Comment by Veritas
Close but not quite veritas. Neil Bush’s contract ended at midnight on 9-11-01
November 25th, 2007 at 7:06 pmvery convienent no?
Heh: Yes, indeed. Congress needs to get to the bottom of this irregularity immediately. Charge the reporters and have them sing away.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:06 pmHeh: Are you kidding me? Now what a coincidence to get his sorry butt off the grill but it won’t hold water. He would still have access to the place even though he technically was not in charge.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:07 pmNeil Bush’s contract expires on 9/10/01 – and Rudy Giuliani’s war games “camp” was erected on 9/9/01. Something’s fishy here…..one more Bush to go to prison??
November 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pmClose but not quite veritas. Neil Bush’s contract ended at midnight on 9-11-01
comment by HEh
Sorry I meant to say midnight on 9-10-01
November 25th, 2007 at 7:13 pmWell thats interesting. I’d like to see a reference for it though, but it sure is interesting.
Bartlebee. Its all fully documented in the book, Crossing the Rubicon by Mike Ruppert. Though i would also recommend using the link i posted above (effictively a Sept 11 Lexis Nexis). No “truth” websites are required. and i would also recommend people steer clear of them, or at the very least be careful, as their are fake sites out there. “CoOperative Research” is pretty much all you need. Take time and read their entire timeline. Its sourced entirely from mainstream media sources, and is fully referenced. Plus there is little or no opinion, except raising a few questions here and there.
as the saying goes:
“Only the small secrets need to be protected. The large ones
November 25th, 2007 at 7:15 pmare kept secret by public incredulity.”
On a related topic:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-friedman/exclusive-daniel-ellsber_b_74022.html
November 25th, 2007 at 7:16 pmBTW heres an article by the author that draws from the book Nato’s Secret Armies.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:19 pmYou will get a trail right to the real culprits pretty damn quick.
Comment by HEh — November 25, 2007 @ 7:04 pm
That is truly creepy footage. How did the folks involved ever manage to keep this bit of the story so completely hidden?
November 25th, 2007 at 7:24 pmDo a search on Marvin Bush (little brother) and wtc.
Smells pretty fishy!
November 25th, 2007 at 7:28 pmI’m no conspiracy theorist but there sure are a lot of coincidences involved!
November 25th, 2007 at 7:29 pm#3 Bush Cover Ups: The New Pearl Harbor by Griffin is a ‘must read’. Griffin has a website as well which delves into the problems with the 911 commission’s “official story”.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:31 pmThat is truly creepy footage. How did the folks involved ever manage to keep this bit of the story so completely hidden?
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
I’ve always wondered if the reporters have ever said why they were reporting the building down, when it was still there. Who gave them that information? Was it an honest mistake?
How much evidence has been destroyed regarding 9/11? Could an independent investigation ever really come to a solid conclusion, due to the missing evidence?
November 25th, 2007 at 7:32 pmDayTripper: “public incredulity” is what this WH is counting on to keep the truth from the people – the realization of their own fallibility and the corruption of those whom we’ve “chosen” to be our leaders.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:33 pmAdmittedly, the secrecy and overstepping of the Bush admin makes it easy to believe any and all tinfoil hat theories.
OTOH – I even have to wonder if the New York Post artcle is an attempt to make people feel sheepish about believing the conspiracy hat theories and thereby more likely to dismiss future theories.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:33 pmHi Zooey! Yes, this footage is very damning evidence in a court of law. I think it’s time to subpoena these reporters who were either playing with their crystal ball and prognosticating or whoops….had some inside information.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:34 pmWow.
Has TP finally come out of the ether?
Bravo. Better late than never.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:35 pmMapleStreet: Believe nothing (even this perhaps quasi indictment by the Post) – thise group of clowns are capable of anything and no nadir appears to be below them. Frankly, they’re the ones who will be found to have “tin foil hat theories” when all is said and done and the truth is apparent. Their “tin foil hat theory” is that as Tripper said it above, our own “incredulity” will keep us from believing the truth about ourselves. This is NOT going to occur when the rest of the world will bring us to our own truth.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:36 pmCould an independent investigation ever really come to a solid conclusion, due to the missing evidence?
Comment by Zooey — November 25, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Z… howzitgoin’???
November 25th, 2007 at 7:37 pmDay Tripper: If your supposed tome on truth is referencing “mainstream media sources”, then how can it be anything but Bush propaganda?? You seem to be “tripping” yourself up on your own pitard there.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:38 pmBesides, I’ve located a bundle of 911 truth sites which are far from bogus and provide very damning evidence and testimony. Granted the sites are growing as mass consciousness is expanding, however, to make the judgment that they’re all nonsense is a gross overstatement, DayTripper. Are you drinking Kool Aid yourself right now?
November 25th, 2007 at 7:40 pmDayTripper: “public incredulity†is what this WH is counting on to keep the truth from the people – the realization of their own fallibility and the corruption of those whom we’ve “chosen†to be our leaders.
Veritas, your right. But 9/11 is not only protected by public incredulity and state disinformation. It is also protected by left-wing “gatekeepers”.
“We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when
November 25th, 2007 at 7:40 pmeverything the American public believes is false” William Casey, CIA Director
Bartles: Give me a moment and I’ll locate this fact for you. Neil would be Shrubbie’s bro.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:41 pmPete: Boogeyman OBL isn’t who we’ve been led to believe he is; in fact, that supposed tape of him taking responsibility has been proven to be nothing more than another “false flag” – a fake.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pmZ… howzitgoin’???
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
Going well, TRoS. Haven’t seen you lately.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:42 pm“left wing gatekeepers” would be whom?
November 25th, 2007 at 7:43 pmFaiz, thank you for putting up this thread. A certain percentage of Americans are generally clueless, but we shouldn’t be clueless about something as basic as this.
OTOH, “RemoveBush” is upset that his comments have been deleted.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:45 pmSure. If a pattern of destroying evidence is concluded then that allone can be a damning peice of evidence. But what we need is a real prosecutor and a real court and no freaking GONZALES’s to cover up for their master.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 7:40 pm
If I understand correctly much or most of the steel from the WTC was carted away and sold as scrap — before any investigators could examine it.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:46 pmNeil would be Shrubbie’s bro.
Comment by Veritas — November 25, 2007 @ 7:41 pm
Was Neil the brother involved in the Silverado mess back in the early 80’s?
BTW, Veritas, I tried replying to one of your posts early and the site kept eating my comment. It was about your saying how the scales are finally tipping, and I agree. Let’s hope they tip over completely.
I found it quite telling the way the Krongard Bros bailed when their intertwined relationship around Blackwater was outted. Those boys ran for cover immediately. 2,3 yrs ago, “Buzzy” and “Cookie” would have just p*ssed on everyone. Now, they actually looked scared.
ABOUT… F*’in… TIME!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 7:47 pmGoing well, TRoS. Haven’t seen you lately.
Comment by Zooey — November 25, 2007 @ 7:42 pm
Yeah… swamped at work. MAJOR funding application due next week, plus almost complete collapse of of internal computer network = waaaay tooo much work for a fun-lovin’ bear who’d prefer to be singin’ songs…
New computers all set up and networked, thanx to yers truly, and just one more week and that F-in’ application is off my desk for another year.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pmThis one always amazed me. Removal of Bomb-Sniffing Dogs Thursday before. No smoking gun, but loaded, ready to go off.
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-nyaler122362178sep12,0,1255660.story
November 25th, 2007 at 7:55 pmWell, well, well…
And what exactly is it that Sibel Edmunds wants to talk about that made discussing her a “conspiracy theory” on the 19th of this month…
and now you say yourself that is it “fact” that the Bush administration ignored intel warnings about the attacks?
What is the difference from then to now?
November 25th, 2007 at 7:56 pmThats just tooooooooooooooo coincidental.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 7:53 pm
Not only is waaayyy tooooo much of it waaaayyyyy tooooo conincidental, but the screaming fact that the “Official” 9/11 Commission wouldn’t touch this stuff, PERIOD, is also incredibly damning. Again, how do you officially ignore the collapse of WTC7?
And that BBC tape is just bizarre.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:57 pmNew computers all set up and networked, thanx to yers truly, and just one more week and that F-in’ application is off my desk for another year.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 7:50 pm
You’re an all-purpose bear. :-)
November 25th, 2007 at 7:57 pm“left wing gatekeepers†would be whom?
pretty much all of them. no high profile person on the left will touch 9/11 with a bargepole. reputations count for more than finding the truth, which is why this revolution will come from the citizenry.
And Bushy fired the structural engineer when he contested the offical story. He said the materials coupled with the jet fuel would not burn hot enough to melt the steel.
the physical evidence side to 9/11 is a trap. dont waste your time on it. it cant be proved one way or the other. we know this, because they are the only “conspiracy theories” the mainstream media will debate. they are strawmen that can be easily knocked over. if one part of the entire issue is worth ramming down peoples throats it is the 15+ military exercises that were occuring on the day. Some of which involved simulated hijackings, fake radar injects on civilian radar and FEMA training in lower Manhattan.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:01 pmBartles: Got the wrong brother – it’s MARVIN BUSH and the name of the security firm is “Securacom” and they definitely DID have the contract for security on 9/11 for the WTC as well as Dulles Airport. Here’s a credible link:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Marvin%20Bush
November 25th, 2007 at 8:02 pmYou mean the broadcast where they are talking about Building 7 having collapsed… and it is still standing there in the shot behind the reporter’s head?
they tried to say it was a time stamp at first, and that didn’t hold up and then they said it was pre-recorded video on green screen and that didn’t hold up…
now they don’t talk about it…
The time they ran it was 5:03pm
Building 7 collapsed at 5:21 pm…
November 25th, 2007 at 8:03 pmLegitimate 9/11 Truthers have already been conducting private investigations for over 6 years now. Of course alien space craft and Satan in the Clouds give any alternative Conspiracy Theory compared to the Official Conspiracy Theory cause for doubt. Even Remote Controlled Planes and Particle Beams come into the mix. Controlled Demolition accented by the use of Thermite seems to be the most plausible explanation.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:03 pmA magnum.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 7:59 pm
One of the other posters linked it in this thread. It’s incredibly damning. I had heard about it before but this was the first time I had ever watched it. All the BBC talking heads go on and on about the collapse for 15 minutes PLUS before it happened. JUST… BIZARRE…
How did everyone involved ever keep this so hush hush? And WHY???
They weren’t just 10 or 15 seconds ahead of time. They were 15 MINUTES ahead of time. Who told them this? Is this person now dead?
WTF happened here?
November 25th, 2007 at 8:03 pmWillyloman: Hey! Yes, Sibel Edmonds figures into this scenario quite prominently, doesn’t she? Now we need a real patriot like Keith Olberman to do her desired interview and, kapow, the lid blows off the entire charade.
DayTripper: I hate to disagree with you but it’s the physical evidence that will take this administration down along with scientific data and credible eyewitness testimony. Nice try to subvert the discussion though. Beep – thanks for playing.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:04 pmYou’re an all-purpose bear. :-)
Comment by Zooey — November 25, 2007 @ 7:57 pm
And you’ve never seen me dance or juggle!!! ;-D!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:05 pmMaybe Bush & Co will claim that these reporters who reported the implosion of Building 7 in advance of it “aliens” with a metaphysical gift greater than ours?? Maybe they flew in on a UFO, too? The Bush Express!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:06 pmHi Ms Z~! Dance and jiggle – sounds like you’re having way too much fun!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:07 pmControlled Demolition accented by the use of Thermite seems to be the most plausible explanation.
Comment by Brain From Planet Arous — November 25, 2007 @ 8:03 pm
Has Elvis, Judge Crater, or Amelia Earhardt been linked to this yet?
And what about Jimmy Hoffa?
November 25th, 2007 at 8:07 pmDance and jiggle? Where??? Where???
November 25th, 2007 at 8:08 pmVeritas is right. Securacom and Marvin took over 6 weeks before 9/11, but I don’t think marvin was still with the company then,
but George Bush’s first cousin was, Wirt Walker….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratesec
November 25th, 2007 at 8:08 pmThermians? Dalmatians? Vegemites?
November 25th, 2007 at 8:09 pmhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Marvin%20Bush
I think it mentions in this post that Marvin was still on Securacom’s Board of Directors on 911.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:09 pmTRoS: Are you just coming into this 911 stuff right now? If so, you’ve got much research to do. Great minds and scientists have been investigating and studying every aspect of what occurred since it happened. There’s quite literally volumes of information out there and tons of people whose story of what they witnessed on 911 simply contradicts the “official story” we’ve been propagandized to believe.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:11 pmThen there’s the illustrious “Dancing Israeli’s” which were caught on tape and highly publicized – across the Hudson from the WTC. This tape is pretty damaging.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:12 pmAdmittedly, the secrecy and overstepping of the Bush admin makes it easy to believe any and all tinfoil hat theories.
OTOH – I even have to wonder if the New York Post artcle is an attempt to make people feel sheepish about believing the conspiracy hat theories and thereby more likely to dismiss future theories. — MapleStreet
***********************************
Myself, I wouldn’t put it past them. Speaking as a longtime resident of New York City, I wouldn’t even line the bottom of a birdcage with the New York Post because everyone in this town knows that it’s not much more than a printed form of Fox News — a very blatant “Rah! Rah! Bush!” hack rag. As I mentioned before, when you learn that Rupert Murdoch owns the New York Post (and he does), it explains a lot…
November 25th, 2007 at 8:14 pmAs someone mentioned above, David Ray Griffin’s work is a good jumping off point for one interested in investigating this horridic incident and coming closer to the truth. His book “The New Pearl Harbor” tells the tale and is a “must read” as it details the work of the PNAC and the Patriot Act which they hatched well in advance of 911. Now even the talking head neonazis like Richard Perle are attempting to distance themselves from Bush.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:14 pmWell look at this, it’s about damn time…..Read all about this stuff, will keep my thought’s to myself since you all are doing such a good job….Bessing and carry on..
November 25th, 2007 at 8:15 pm“Thermians? Dalmatians? Vegemites?”
The New York Times called the sulfer residue found in the dust from 9/11 and the residual steel that was tested… “the biggest mistery of 9/11″.
Fire investigators are required by law to look for residual traces of thermite in every fire suspected of arson.
The church burnings in the south were from thermite incendiary devises.
Thermite + sulfer oxide = thermate.
The sulfer instantly reduces the melting point of A-36 structural steel (all steel really) that is why it is there.
It also keeps it from solidifying for a long period of time. That explains the “flowing molton metal” the first responders saw…
November 25th, 2007 at 8:15 pmI hate to disagree with you but it’s the physical evidence that will take this administration down along with scientific data and credible eyewitness testimony.
what physical evidence? there isnt any. a laymans opinion on how buildings collapse after fire and damage does not consititute evidence. even eye witness testimony can be challenged.
use the website i linked to above. you do not need controlled demolitions to state the case. they are a fascinating distraction, which may turn out to be true, but they are impossible for us plebs to prove one way or the other.
personally i dont believe the official theory one bit. and havent for a very long time. so i resent this:
Nice try to subvert the discussion though. Beep – thanks for playing.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:20 pmThere’s quite literally volumes of information out there and tons of people whose story of what they witnessed on 911 simply contradicts the “official story†we’ve been propagandized to believe.
Comment by Veritas — November 25, 2007 @ 8:11 pm
I’ve been looking at bits and pieces of this all along. I just don’t come out and discuss it very much. I have to say, when you start to look at all the weird coincidences and officially ignored facts (like the collapse of WTC7), the sheer volume of material gets overwhelming.
I would dearly love to see an unimpeded, thoroughly professional investigation of all this, and I DON’T believe for an instant that the “official” 9/11 Commission can be trusted. There’s just waaaayyyy toooo much truly funky stuff here to ignore.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:23 pmAnd ignore it we’ve been told to do… by BuschCo!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:24 pmI wasn’t.
i know, and im sorry, i came across a bit blunt there.
i just dont like discussions on 9/11 coming down to the “cool stuff” like buildings blowing up. many criminal cases are spawned from circumstantial evidence and in 9/11s case its mountainous. people should inform themselves of the sheer scale of this type of evidence and then spread the word to friends.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:27 pmGene Corley, the first investigator of the towers after the collapse swore that the fire added to the destruction sequence because it raged out of control and weakened the steel.
However, after tests were complete… on the 240 pieces of steel they salvaged, they came to find out that the hottest tempatures suffered by that steel were only 200 deg f.
Not nearly enough even to weaken it.
On steel samples they found “strange pitting and corrosion” that, as they say, could be consistant with thermite or thermate…
but that they never tested for the presence of these elements on the steel they inspected.
That and the dust that Stephen Jones found sulfer residue in and thermite residue in…
is physical evidence.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:32 pmHere is the page (referred to above..) about the report on the collapse of building 7 before the actual collapse along with video.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bbc_wtc7_videos.html
Careful, this type of thing will get you booted from some blogs because of the divisive nature of the implications…(As Morpheus said in “The Matrix,” “Some people aren’t ready to be unplugged…”)
Thanks TP for at least allowing the discussion.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:36 pmThank you Commander Taggart.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 8:30 pm
Never give up… never surrender!!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:36 pmis physical evidence.
not until verified as such. its only “alleged” physical evidence.
its intriguing stuff and im well informed on most of it. but stephen jones has nothing, unless his samples are proven to be from the site and that his results are peer reviewed.
Is it the same person that owns the lot that bldg 7 sits on?
Larry Silverstein, Bartlebee
November 25th, 2007 at 8:39 pmThe guy who owns the lots is Larry Silverstein.
He bought the towers in Jan. 2001
He already owned building 7
He signed the insurance deal on the towers 6 weeks before 9/11
he made sure there was a clause for terrorist attacks.
he put down 14 million in jan. 2001 and was paid 7.1 billion three years ago by insurance companies.
the Mukasey was the judge in the cases.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:42 pmBy Grabthars Hammer… what a savings.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
Ohhh… that’s NOT right!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 8:44 pmBartlebee…
The new york times has set the article to the paid area of there sites, but here is an article where a reporter is discussion Stephen Jones and he makes reference to the new York Times article.
It is mentioned in the 9/11 commission Report, i think.
and you can go to Scholars for 911 Truth and Justice for more info (they may have a transcript of it)
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html
November 25th, 2007 at 8:45 pmCorley was working for the administration and for the official “investigation”.
The steel he studied is officially from Ground Zero and it’s findings are in the FEMA report and the Official NIST report…
you don’t get more “official” than that.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:48 pm“unless his samples are proven to be from the site and that his results are peer reviewed.”
the chain of possesion has been verified and his work on the findings has been peer reviewed. and all of it has been available for the public to read a year ago.
To bad “credible” sites waited so long, huh?
November 25th, 2007 at 8:50 pmHeh & Veritas,
Great insight. Heh,, thanks for the link. Compelling video. Independent investigation followed by prosecutions. Won’t happen, but should. Waxman? Pelosi? Obama? anybody on the case? We wish.
Bilbo, even you make a couple of good points. (Everyone has a few good opinions, you know, opinions are like . . . well. . . you still belong in hell)
November 25th, 2007 at 8:53 pmGood stuff tonight! Keep investigating. Many more people each day are reaching the same conclusion and the critical mass is moving closer to indicting this white house each day. Willyloman, Zooey, TRoS – keep it up.
Knowledge IS power and it’s time to speak TRUTH TO POWER. Just because what may have occurred is unsavory, criminal and heinous so many american can’t bring themselves to admit the potential truth about what happened is not reason to keep one’s head in the sand.
After all, we now are totally convinced that the Bush cabal is a criminal cabal and nothing is beyond or beneath them to accomplish their demented goals.
Again, keep asking your gut: If Bush continues to sacrifice our innocent soldiers for his personal gain and to “save face” for making a horrendous error in judgment, then why wouldn’t this same sociopathic mind be capable of staging a false flag to accomplish even more diabolical goals – the total destruction of our Constitution and a total erosion of our democracy. Just keep checking in with your gut – we all know that it serves us well.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:54 pmJohn O’neil was the man in charge of finding and capturing bin Laden before 9/11 for the attack on the USS Cole.
He quit the FBI in the summer of 2001 after having made a career of it because he said that people high up in the administration were protecting bin Laden because of oil and family interests in Saudi Arabia.
he was offered a job 2 weeks before Sept. 11th… to help run security for the tin towers in new york.
his body was found at ground zero.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:57 pmComment by Veritas — November 25, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
I think it’s safe to say a revolution has begun. If our, remaining, faith in our system is not misplaced it will come about with ballots instead of bayonets. I’m not much of a gambler but I’m starting to like the odds. On good days.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:57 pmA reputable investigation would begin with Silverman and the insurance company carrying the insurance policy.
Willyloman: Thanks for the great link to the Corley data! And since it has been verified, I’d say it’s pretty damning “physical evidence”, wouldn’t you? Anyone who disputes verified physical evidence is probably a troll.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:58 pmSorry Bilbo,
It’s been a while. I cast my wrath on Bartlebee, not you.
You do contribute fine insight.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:00 pmNot only that Bartlebee, but…
Do you know where all the evidence for the Tyco and Enron scandal investigations were kept?
along with the new investigation they were doing on the 2 trillion missing from the DOD? (that Rumy announced on…Sept. 10th)…
building 7.
All the evidence in those crimes was destroyed at 5:52pm Sept. 11th 2001
November 25th, 2007 at 9:00 pmmy fault 5:22pm…
November 25th, 2007 at 9:00 pmThe Man Who Knew Too Much, PBS on John O’Neil….
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/
November 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pm“Partly due to personal friction he had within the FBI and federal government, O’Neill left to become the head of security at the World Trade Center, where he died at age 49 in the September 11, 2001 attacks.” Wiki…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._O‘Neill
November 25th, 2007 at 9:04 pmSilverstein purchased the leases on the WTC Towers 6 weeks before 9/11. He purchased them from the Port Authority of NY after the Port Authority had fought in court (and lost) for ten years to get their insurance company to pay for the $1 billion dollar asbestos cleanup that was needed.
After Silverstein purchased the leases on the Twin Towers, he quadrupled the insurance and added ‘terrorist’ insurance making it the most insurance ever paid for a skyscraper. He then changed the security company to Securacom.
Aside from the connections to the Bush family, Securacom has connections to Kuwait as well. Here is a link to an article in CommonDreams that explains about Securacom.
Of course, all of this is yet another set of strange ‘coincidences’.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:06 pmHi Willy. :-)
November 25th, 2007 at 9:06 pmBartlebee . . .
You gonna start up this investigation? God speed . . .
We can’t get info on Cheney’s oil power summit, what the heck happened on the Gulf Coast during Katrina, how Bush stole two elections, corruption run amok within this administration . . .
If you think that the fall of the World Trade Centers is ever going to see the light of day . . . God be with you. Fairy dust will make you fly.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:07 pmF0R AS LONG AS THE FSA, THE FACISTS STATES OF AMERICA (FORMER USA), REFUSES TO SHOW FOOTAGE OF A 757 HITTING THE PENTAGON, UNTIL THEY EXPLAIN WHAT WAS THAT WHITE MILITARY PLANE DOING FLYING OVER THE WHITE HOUSE, UNTIL THEIR EXPLANATION FOR THE TOTAL/GLOBAL COLLAPSE OF THE THREE TOWERS (WTC7) IN LESS THAN TEN SECONDS AND IN SIMILAR FASHION FITS THE LAWS OF PHISICS, THEY WILL HAVE A HELL OF A TIME TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THAT 9/11 WAS NOT AN INSIDE JOB! HAVING SAID THAT, I FULLY RESPECT THINK PROGRESS FOR THEIR OPINION ON 9/11, AND I AM VERY GREATFULL THAT I CAN EXPRESS MINE IN THIS VERY DEMOCRATIC PLACE.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:08 pmJohn F. Lehman, Jr., PhD – 9/11 Commissioner –
“Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon’s initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public…”
November 25th, 2007 at 9:09 pmHi muse… :)
November 25th, 2007 at 9:11 pmPaul Thompson’s timeline is incredible. It represents a tremendous amount of work and research. It takes time to digest it, but there is so much information there. As you read it, you start seeing all kinds of weird ‘coincidences’ and connections. All of it is in the MSM, but none of it is lined up and obvious. It is a piece here and a piece there. He has taken the time to line them up.
It is fascinating reading. My hat is off to him.
I have it in the book for as well. For me, it is easier to look things up. The online version has more information, as he has continued to add to it.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:11 pmThe book is called “The Terror Timeline” by Paul Thompson. Every entry is sourced.
Timothy J. Roemer, PhD, 9/11 Commissioner –
“We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting,” Roemer told CNN. “We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part of the fumbling bureaucracy…”
November 25th, 2007 at 9:12 pmBut it could just as easily be a case of sloppy reporting. As I said earlier our news people were talking about it possibly coming down all day and someone might have just jumped the gun or got it wrong…
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
That would cross the line, from sloppy into grossly incompetent, begging the question as to how a ‘professional’ news organization like the BBC could be so blatantly boneheaded. Not to mention the fact, as admitted by the BBC that they happened to have ‘lost’ the original tape…. virtually irreplaceable historical footage happens to go missing? No, I don’t think it’s a ’smoking gun’ to bush’s bumbling, however, certainly it raises very troubling contradictions in government versions, as well as concerning the seemingly sudden ham-handedness of news ‘professionals’ who’ve covered disasters before…yet no one thought to check their facts, particularly concerning the destruction of an entire building?
I honestly don’t know what happened, but there are a host of disturbingly unanswered questions and conflicting evidence..and the dismissive arrogance and venom directed at those who have questions makes me question even more! (Added to bush’s vehement resistance to any investigation…That fact alone proves a bush administration colonoscopy is in order and long, long overdue!)
November 25th, 2007 at 9:13 pmLee Hamilton, Vice Chairman, 9/11 Commission –
“We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. … So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail. …”
November 25th, 2007 at 9:15 pmBart -
Not a fool . . . but if you’re banking on fairy dust to make a mint, you might be.
Like most everyone else on this blog, I’m disgusted, disheartened and want to demand justice. . . .
I’ve just lost faith.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:16 pmI would dearly love to see an unimpeded, thoroughly professional investigation of all this, and I DON’T believe for an instant that the “official†9/11 Commission can be trusted. There’s just waaaayyyy toooo much truly funky stuff here to ignore.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
November 25th, 2007 at 9:18 pmThe fact, we CAN NOT get an honest to the point investigation on 9/11 is suspect. We the People have th right to know the truth…. we pay their salaries…. they work for us. And how can anyone ignore WTC7… and all the other inconsistencies? If all happened as it has been reported, then there would be no problem with an honest public investigation… to put all doubts to rest. Until that happens I feel I have the right to question 9/11.
Well, an article here on Think Progress seriously discussing what Sibel Edmonds has to say would be a great start, rockyroad.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:18 pm“…how can we ignore WTC7…”
that is a great point, had enough.
Both FEMA nad NIST did just that. as did the 9/11 Commission Report.
and Tucker Carlson, for that matter. :)
November 25th, 2007 at 9:20 pmWilly, did you hear that audio clip of the interview with Brad Friedman discussing Sibel Edmonds that was posted on BradBlog? He very clearly and intelligently discussed the entire issue as it relates to her. It was thorough and impressive.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:22 pmHe was on The Stephanie Miller Show.
no, but I will check that out.
thank you muse.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:24 pm“Before the 9/11 attack, George Bush’s intelligence chieftains BLOCKED the CIA’s investigation of the funding of al-Qaeda and terror.”
Greg Palast
http://www.gregpalast.com/treason-firing-squad-for-the-new-york-times/
November 25th, 2007 at 9:28 pmBart – Not so clever – I expect better from you. Never said dust would make a fairy fly . . . said if you believed that a little fairy dust would make this investigation fly . . . and you believe . . . clap your hands and make it happen.
The evidence necessary for a probable cause criminal investigation exists . . . it has for years and only becomes more compelling over time . . . yet where is the clamor for an independent investigation? There isn’t any. The conspiracy theorists have been deemed “crazies,” despite the mounting evidence. Politicians have shunned the idea, even our beloved Bill Clinton. I strongly believe that such an independent investigation is horribly overdue, I just don’t think that it will ever happen.
We have overwhelming evidence that the administration destroyed hundreds of thousands of e-mails that could substantiate its wrongdoing in this matter and many others . . . yet where is the prosecution or the public will to prosecute?
Frankly, I believe the war on terrorism begins at home.
It isn’t being fought. It’s so much easier to fight “terrorists” who look Arab, who live thousands of miles away and who embrace Islam than it is to fight a domestic, financially and politically well-armed, gun-toting, self-righteous government here on the homeland.
Blowing fairy dust your way – don’t choke – it isn’t CO2.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:32 pmSeriuously… if half of one tower was left standing, the other, the top have fallen off onto many other buildings, and above all, WTC7 didn’t fall straight into its foot prints… they could try to convince me that 9/11 was not an inside job. But when we see the three towers falling in less than 10 seconds!!!!! In similar fashion!!! Steel and concrete structures! 10 seconds!!!! Total/global collapse!!!???!!!!!! 10 seconds!!!! It is very vey hard to bend phisics!!!! Star Treck… may be… But I’m not a trecky! The other thing is, if a 757 hit the Pentagon, why the secrecy???? Just show the footage from one of the thousands security cameras surrounding the building. That would shut a lot of people off. But because the Pentagon was hit by a military missil, they will never show a footage that does not exists. 9/11 was an inside job and the people who did it are still killing inocents. Bush and Chenney, and their entire JUNTA are WAR CRIMINALS! SO IS TONNY BLAIR AND THE BRITISH REPITILE QUEEN, AND THE FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF AUSTRALIA, JOHN HOWARD AND HIS FORINGNER MINISTER. THEY ALL LIED ABOUT IRAQ, THAN THEY BLAMED “FALTY INTELIGENCE”!!!!! THEY THING PEOPLE ARE AS DUMB AS THEY ARE!
November 25th, 2007 at 9:33 pmThe first step in getting the new independant investigation into 9/11 is to express in a clear and direct manner, to people who do still give a shit, that those of us who are asking for this investigation are doing so on the basis of informed, rational, logical, evidence-supported reasons.
I am nothing in this. But one voice.
the engineers, architects, building professionals, military people, CIA and Intel people, 9/11 Commissioners, and others ARE credible and they ARE calling for a new investigation.
to reduce them to “conspiracy theorists” is dismissive and sorely misinformed.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:43 pmBart
“Not so clever – I expect better from you.
Never said dust would make a fairy fly . . .
Comment by rockyroad — November 25, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
Really?
Fairy dust will make you fly.
Comment by rockyroad — November 25, 2007 @ 9:07 pm
:|
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 9:37 pm
Really Bart . . . I never said that you were a fairy. The fairy is the independent investigation and prosecution.
If you attributed the term to yourself . . . well, there’s nothing wrong with that.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:48 pm“All Great Truths begin as blasphemies”
G.B. Shaw
November 25th, 2007 at 9:52 pmthe engineers, architects, building professionals, military people, CIA and Intel people, 9/11 Commissioners, and others ARE credible and they ARE calling for a new investigation.
to reduce them to “conspiracy theorists†is dismissive and sorely misinformed.
Comment by willyloman — November 25, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
Excellent point, Willy.
November 25th, 2007 at 9:55 pmto reduce them to “conspiracy theorists†is dismissive and sorely misinformed.
Comment by willyloman — November 25, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
If you can discredit the messenger, you don’t have to discredit the message.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:03 pmcold_hard_left -
You read a tad angry, but you’re right.
Bart – Touched a nerve did I? Hee!
November 25th, 2007 at 10:04 pmI don’t know about all that… but a real investigation into 4 plane crashes and the collapse of 3 steel framed buildings primarily caused by “fire” would be a start.
a good start.
and, while we are at it, maybe an investigation into why they shipped off all the steel from the buildings, under guard, to China to be melted down would be cool to.
And… why they already had the “Patriot Act” waiting to go would be good.
and… what really happened with the other ‘terrorist attack” on US soil… the Anthrax attack that killed two… right before the vote on the ‘patriot Act”…
that would be good too.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:06 pmcomment 247. is directed at comment 241 by cold-hard-left
November 25th, 2007 at 10:07 pmand, while we are at it, let’s throw in an ivestigation into the Trans Afghan Pipeline and the fact that we already had troops stationed near Afghanistan before the 9/11 attacks occured…
that would be nice.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:09 pmIf you can discredit the messenger, you don’t have to discredit the message.
Isn’t that what they did with Joe Wilson? Then took it a further step by outing Valerie Plame (Wilson)?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:09 pmBTW, this thread seems to have hit a nerve. Ever since TP put in the reg system, the only time you get this many posts on a topic is if trolls are here acting out. But there have been next to no trolls lurking this afternoon.
By and large, I’m not a conspiracy kind of bear, but this particular issue does stick in my craw. I don’t know what all these weird coincidences and incovenient bizarre facts mean or add up to, but I DO NOT believe what I’ve been told by BuschCo, and I would indeed dearly love to see a thorough, independent, unimpeded investigation of this. There’s just too much here.
That’s another thing… after one of the most devastating attacks in the history of the country, was one single, solitary govt authority even criticized for all the security issues… the breaches, the lack of response??? to my knowledge, no one, anywhere, was ever so much as slapped on the wrist. Again, bizarre beyond words.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:10 pm“Isn’t that what they did with Joe Wilson? Then took it a further step by outing Valerie Plame (Wilson)?”
I don’t think so muse.
I think they were sending a clear message that if you get in the way, we will make you pay and your family is not off-limits either.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:12 pmWillie,
The professionals who are so easily dismissed as “conspiracy theorists” are clearly mischaracterized for political purposes. They are exactly the people whose expertise is critical to any independent investigation. If I referred to them in any way that appears derrogatory, I apologize. It is their very expertise and committment to their veried professions that will finallly illuminate just what happened on 9-11. Far from minimizing their thoughts and opinions, I hope that they are encouraged to speak.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:13 pmAmericans knew the US murdered John Kennedy and did nothing a the circus hearing were a joke. Most reporters called the bullets used to kill JFK the magic bullets. Because the bullets went inside/outside/up/down/under/around/then back again even going in steel and as reported came back and and kept going. Now there was gun smoke in an area close to where JFK’s car was but that was said to be nothing important. People said they had to duck the bullets coming from behind the fence were the smoke was coming and the FBI/CIA said it was nothing important. Now look at the players in office and behind the scenes during the 9/11 attack and you’ll see the same people of the Nixon years just older. Every time new released information comes out about JFK it’s always has the CIA and hired killers from Cuba. Now remember we hired killers from Cuba to assassinate Castro during those years. The US didn’t have to worry about immigrants during that time as blacks were doing the work.
Lindsay Graham wants those good old days back so we can send the immigrants home and let the blacks get back to working the fields. That’s the Graham/Lott campaign to have the blacks work off the National Debt.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:14 pmIn fact TRos, most people involved have been pushed up the ladder of success, given nice lofty positions of authority, or the presidential medal of Freedom.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:15 pmThey have lied about just about everything else. That is clear to everyone. Why in the world would it seem out of character for this to be any different?
This is not a partisan issue. This is an American issue. ALL Americans are interests in truth and any threats to our National Security, whether foreign OR domestic. We need the truth.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:15 pmThen took it a further step by outing Valerie Plame (Wilson)?
Comment by nwmuse — November 25, 2007 @ 10:09 pm
Was that a gambit perfected in the old Soviet Union? If someone complaining is declared insane, there’s no need to deal w/ their complaints!
Perfecto! Yes, that is what was done to the Wilsons, along w/ anyone else who has had the nerve to stand up to BuschCo and push back, from Richard Clarke (he’s just trying to sell books) to Scott Ritter (just a perv) to Graham Frost (just a stupid kid taught to lie by the Dems…).
November 25th, 2007 at 10:16 pm“… or the presidential medal of Freedom.”
Comment by willyloman — November 25, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
No doubt there were cookies and vanilla ice cream at the award ceremonies.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:17 pmrockyroad;
I don’t remember you refering to them in such a way. I was making a reference to the people in the article and those in general who do that.
I don’t remember you doing that at all.
And I too hope they get a chance to speak out and be heard, just like Sibel Edmunds should be heard.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:18 pmGeez, sombody test Cold_Hard_Left for drugs. The poor little troll flipped.
Must not like the topic of the thread. I wonder if the RNC has “specialists” they assign to specidic topics. HCL must be the 9/11 specialist.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:21 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 10:21 pm
CHL has been reduced to the occasional “drive by(e?)”.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:26 pmCHL has been reduced to the occasional “drive by(e?)â€.
Comment by pete — November 25, 2007 @ 10:26 pm
How about a drive bye bye? Or just a bye bye?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:33 pmHow many investigations over how many years , how many hearings, over the attacks of Pearl Harbor?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:34 pmCompare that to any investigations/hearings over 9/11..
Just one question. How did Bush talk 19 guys in to flying four planes to their death? and I ain’t a troll and think Bush is the worst President in our history. I just don’t get the 17 Saudis doing this for Bush.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pmComment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 25, 2007 @ 10:33 pm
Bye, bye, works. Other acceptable answers would include: over and out, get lost, and fu(k off troll!
November 25th, 2007 at 10:35 pmGeez, Bart & rockyroad. What’s up?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:36 pmwillyloman,
Thank you for your kind words. This administration has a successful history of silencing those who wish to speak the truth. Hopefully, they, at some point, preferably through testimony on the record rather than through memoirs written too late, will clear the record.
I have some doubts about the memoir writers. Many of whom supported the Bush lies until they clearly realize(d) that they don’t want their own legacies hinged to the Bush wagon.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:37 pmComment by Joefriday — November 25, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
How many Ford workers ever met Henry Ford?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:39 pm#267 – I read a BBC article a while back. Apparently it wasn’t actually 19 (and they weren’t ALL Saudis). Because apparently a number of the ‘named’ hijackers (it was 6 or 7) turned up alive and well on the other side of the globe, surprised to find that their names and photos had been on “the list”. I haven’t seen it reported anywhere other than the BBC.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:41 pmComment by Joefriday — November 25, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
How many Ford workers ever met Henry Ford?
Comment by pete — November 25, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
Well I’m a believer now!
November 25th, 2007 at 10:41 pmComment by Joefriday — November 25, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
How many Irish Catholic bombers ever met the Pope? A Cardinal? A Bishop?
November 25th, 2007 at 10:45 pmComment by pete — November 25, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
I have to say, “fu(k off troll” works for me!!!
November 25th, 2007 at 10:53 pmI haven’t seen it reported anywhere other than the BBC.
Comment by nwmuse — November 25, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
Now, that I’d like to hear more about.
JoeFriday?
I’m not sayin’ anyone did anything here definitively. That’s why I usually stay away from this subject matter – so freakin’ volatile. On my part, I do find all the bizarre coincidences and unacknowledges facts worthy of a much more rigorous investigation.
I simply do not trust the story BuschCo has fed us over the years. They’ve been caught lying too many times.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:56 pmHow many Irish Catholic bombers ever met the Pope? A Cardinal? A Bishop?
Comment by pete — November 25, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
Pete, it is a serious question. I have great respect for you all that pursue this. I am looking outside the thermite/when reporters reported/can steel weaken by a jet fuel fire/ etc etc.
Who were the people that flew the planes in to the WTC towers? What and who motivated them to end their lives? where does OBL fit in? Were there real people in those 4 jets that lost their lives? are all those people that said they had family on those jets lying?.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:00 pmWhether you saw it or not, I now know how Denzel felt.
Comment by BARTLEBEE — November 25, 2007 @ 10:46 pm
Thanks for clearing that up!
**scratching head**
November 25th, 2007 at 11:02 pm“I haven’t seen it reported anywhere other than the BBC.
Comment by nwmuse — November 25, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
Now, that I’d like to hear more about.” TRoS
http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/evidence/welfarestate_hijackers.html
Tracking the 19 Hijackers
November 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmWhat are they up to now?
At least 9 of them survived 9/11
Maybe Bush & Co will claim that these reporters who reported the implosion of Building 7 in advance of it “aliens†with a metaphysical gift greater than ours?? Maybe they flew in on a UFO, too? The Bush Express!
Comment by Veritas — November 25, 2007 @ 8:06 pm
Yes, the “War on Terror” takes on an intergalactic dimension. I could see Ghouliani as president, “We’ve defeated the terrorists, and now we need more weapons to fight an alien invasion”. Not only is it an endless war, but now it takes on an interplanetary aspect. After that…..it is the invaders from interdimensional space, between atoms.
There are some people poisoning the well of legit 9/11 research with aliens and Satan. This was the old Enquirer “face in the dark clouds”, or “look, a faster than light craft appearing in back of the WTC”. Even that Particle Beam theory is a bit…..far-fetched.
The remote control planes….The jury is still out on that one.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:06 pmI had a good guess that they knew when GW666 said he thought the pilot of the first plane was a really bad pilot hours after the event happened, and there was NO FOOTAGE of that crash for 7 hours after, he was in his limo on the way to the school when it happened.
And then the fact that after the second crash he just sat there, his guards did not hussle him out of there, his schedule was public knowledge.
This is what made me start thinking he knew it was gonna happen the very next day, after I digested all the info I could.
Buck Fush
November 25th, 2007 at 11:12 pmJoeFriday:
Well, now, that is a really good question and one of the hardest to answer.
If it was in fact, set up by members of the Bush Administration, someone would have to fly those planes into towers and die.
That’s true. or not (remote flying is done for tests of crashes of jumbo jets…but lets not get into that now)…
Why would they do it? Well, first of all, if this was an “inside job” Bush is not smart enough to come up with it and besides, Bush wasn’t around when the NeoCons wrote “rebuilding america’s defenses” or sent that letter to Clinton (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Podhitz…”
9/11 is the catalyst for Global Change… not just in US (Pakistan, Middle East, England, Spain, Autrailia…)
Very powerful people are behind 9/11, and the House of Saud is part of that.
Would 19 people kill themselves in a suicide attack for the House of Saud?
Sure. Would they do it because the Saudi family would pay their family millions and make them rich for life? I don’t know.
Would some Saudi fly a plane into a building for Bush? No… would they for the Saudi Royal Family? yes.
and the 27 redacted pages of the 9/11 Commission report are about… Saudi financial connections, as reported by those who had a chance to read them.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:16 pmThis is the last thing I want to say before I knock off for the night..
If I were the leader of a country, and responsible for the security of 300+ million people in the US, and someone slipped under the radar and attacked the heart of a major city resulting in the deaths of 3,000 people, I would want to know how it could have happened. First and foremost. Heads would roll.
I would want to know where the vulnerabilities lie, where the weak links are so that I could fix them in order to prevent something like that from EVER happening again. Steps would have to be taken (and I am not referring to the loss of civil liberties). If that meant hearings and investigations to identiify the vulnerabilities, then I would call for them myself. If it meant heads rolled in order to strengthen the national security of our country, then so be it.
Following an event like that, the most important thing of all is to fix the vulnerabilities and find out how it happened so it couldn’t be repated.
But, the exact opposite happened.. Bizarre. No questions were allowed to be asked. Barriers were put up at every turn to prevent ANY investigations. They tried like hell to block ANY hearings. The 9/11 Commission was a white wash. Every person who stepped forward with information (be it a whistleblower) was shut down (and gagged).
That is not the behavior of someone who puts the national security, the needs of its people, the security of the borders, and the integrity of this country first.
It is the behavior of someone who is trying to make sure information doesn’t get out, or cover things up. Just like all the effort that went into covering up the domestic surveillance/spying stuff, just like covering up the renditions/torturing stuff, and so much more.
That is what bothers me so much.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:46 pmI forgot one part.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:51 pmI meant to add with the barriers being put up, videotapes of the planes hitting were confiscated, black boxes were confiscated, and physical evidence (the steel from the towers) was quickly gathered and shipped off overseas to be melted down before any investigators could get in there to examine it.
What does that demonstrate? Transparency? Or cover-up?
It is no wonder people have questions and are distrustful. It is logical to question.
The August 6th PDB is a “Conspiracy Theory”???
November 25th, 2007 at 11:56 pmThe August 6th PDB is a “Conspiracy Theory�??
Comment by Mugsy — November 25, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
Well, it certainly was about a conspiracy…
November 26th, 2007 at 12:13 amZooey – You”ve missed your calling . . . join the diplomatic corps . . . hope that head scratch is healing : -)
November 26th, 2007 at 12:17 amJoeFriday:
Well, now, that is a really good question and one of the hardest to answer.
If it was in fact, set up by members of the Bush Administration, someone would have to fly those planes into towers and die.
That’s true. or not (remote flying is done for tests of crashes of jumbo jets…but lets not get into that now)…
Strange to me that a security system such as employed by our airline system would fail, not once, but 4 times on 9/11. Odd too that a guy like Mohammed Atta would be seen partying it up with prostitutes and snorting coke before deciding to become a martyr for Allah. Most suicidists are poor, ignorant muslims who are most likely brainwashed into commiting their acts. Hardly the MO for Atta and for any of the others involved with event.
Reading the investigative work of Dan Hopsicker at http://www.madcowprod.com, it’s pretty clear that Atta was mixed up with the SA coke business and probably a good chance that he was on the CIA payroll. Now, if there were simulated hijackings of commercial airliners on 9/11 as part of the wargames, you’d probably want to have simulated hijackers who could be counted on to at least board the aircraft. Preferably dark, swarthy men of ME origin. Ones that could be documented as hijackers.
It’s amazed me that our government was too stupid to locate the hijackers for months prior to 9/11, but had their identities nailed down within 24 hours of the attacks. Except, as others have noted, approx. 1/2 are still alive. But who remembers what the other hijackers look like? Except Mohammed Atta….he is the face of the 9/11 hijackers.
A few dupes on the CIA payroll, 4 planes with RC capability, and viola! – you got yourself a profitable war without end. And control of a $100 trillion dollar oil reserve. People mug and kill people for the change in their pocket….what are people capable of doing when billions and trillions are at stake?
November 26th, 2007 at 12:59 amIt is obvious from the size of this thread and reaction of posters we need the truth of 9/11. We do not need to be called conspiracy nuts, to be told to keep quiet and be told this subject is off limits. Because it is supposed to be We the PEOPLE, the people that pay the salaries of this administration we need and deserve a legitimate public investigation and under oath. Then we can put this subject to rest for good.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:18 amSomeone tell me why this is not happening?
Many of you wonder why MSM and even many left wing blogs, not to mention democratic leaders, refuse to seriously question 9/11 despite the overwhelming evidence that the official story is flawed. Many more go one step further; accusing those who question the official story as nuts, unpatriotic, and even terrorists. For the former group, consider this.
What if the wildest theories are true?. The most extreme theories hold that the government did perform these deeds on their own people, or at the very least stood aside and let the attacks happen. If so, and I am not saying it is true, as perhaps they are just covering up for some country, group or person who may have been involved, then what might they do to keep this from being a widely accepted as fact?.
Imagine the outrage of the population if a large majority believed this. They would call for a new investigation, followed by trials and then the execution of these treasonous murderers. This would probably cause civil unrest, economic collapse and global depression, as people around the world dump the dollar, and possibly even the fall of the government. There result could be anarchy and no one wants that, especially those living the good life.
The other consideration is that those who would do 9/11, like al Qaeda, probably wouldn’t stop at doing another one if they have the capability. If impeachment over 9/11 was a possibility, and those in power are guilty, then something like 9/11 could happen again. The government would then blame it on terrorists (after all if they did 9/11, we fell for that, some for longer than others), start WW III by nuking Iran and Pakistan, call for a state of emergency and martial law, suspend elections, etc. Then it wouldn’t matter if people didn’t believe in the new 9/11 since we would be living in a police state. One of our congressmen was said by Ralph Nader recently to be worried about that same thing after being asked why he did not support impeachment when that is what his constituents want.
Consider also the Anthrax attacks at Democratic politicians and liberal News media outlets in the wake of 9/11, and President Bush’s warning not to fall for Conspiracy Theories, perhaps linking the 2 in some peoples mind, whether this was the intent or not. I mean, we supposedly solved the who and why on 9/11 within days, yet no one can say who performed the Anthrax attacks using weapons grade Anthrax which few people in the world have access to (we now know Saddam did not have access), and indeed, no one even asks about it anymore.
Most people prefer to be in denial and let it go. If true, we do not really want to know, do we? And so we continue to hope and pray that the conspiracy theorists are just nuts.
Like JFK’s assassination, the truth will probaby never be known. A good Conspiracy is one where the perpetrators do not get caught. Excessive secrecy and incompetent investigations breed Conspiracy Theories. But if you own the media, the politicians, the intelligence agencies and the Department of Justice, you can tell people the Emperor has no clothes and get away with it, so it does not really matter what a few “nuts” think so long as it does not go mainstream.
So get over it and let’s see what the next chapter in the larger conspiracy to form a One World Government holds.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:29 amThere is a relevant clip from NPR’s broadcast that morning concerning comments made by a member of congress, to the reporter, as the Capitol building was being evacuated. Apparently, some members were briefed by the CIA about attacks “of this nature.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/dmg/dmg.php?prgCode=ME&showDate=11-Sep-2001&segNum=1&NPRMediaPref=RM
(The relevant clip is at timestamp 1:05:40)
Reporter David Welna: “I spoke with congressman Ike Skelton, a Missouri Democrat and member of the Armed Services Commitee. He said just recently the Director of the CIA warned [them] there could be an attack – an imminent attack – on the United States, of this nature. So, this was not entirely unexpected.”
November 26th, 2007 at 1:48 amI mean, we supposedly solved the who and why on 9/11 within days, yet no one can say who performed the Anthrax attacks using weapons grade Anthrax which few people in the world have access to…
The hijackers were identified by people on the planes, and correlated with their ticketing data, identification documents, and security tapes. They made no attempt to remain anonymous after the event.
The Anthrax letters entered the postal system via an unattended mailbox, leaving no clear method of identifying the sender. Also, a lot of hyperbolic terms describing the actual powder as being sophisticated and weapons grade hasn’t held up over time.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:02 amImagine the outrage of the population if a large majority believed this. They would call for a new investigation, followed by trials and then the execution of these treasonous murderers. This would probably cause civil unrest, economic collapse and global depression, as people around the world dump the dollar, and possibly even the fall of the government. There result could be anarchy and no one wants that, especially those living the good life.~Comment by MiMiCcs — November 26, 2007 @ 1:29 am
With all due respect, Mimics, ‘calling’ for a new investigation doesn’t do anything. (They run the Sheriff Dept.) Nor would there be an organized “outrage.” We’ve sat by, witnessing TORTURE, rendition, Katrina outrage (Condi went shopping and bush stayed on vacation), Armor shortage, illegal war, no WMD, the list goes on.
The American people have no recourse anymore. There isn’t anything people will do, much less can do. They have cable and Wendy’s and Walmart…all the while Habeas Corpus and the NSA protections have been destroyed. We don’t riot. We don’t demand. We send scary emails, harsh language, then worry if we’ll get on an airline list, or get picked up by some secretive agency with a title like “ICE,” or “Homeland Security.”
There are thousands of shlubs who would love to take orders at the expense of Democracy. They are the young republicans filling the CIA ranks even now (Most probably keep FOX News in business…)..they are impo’tant and are given power over people whom the “authorities” deem subversive. They get badges. They are glad to whittle our country down, right-by-right.
No, there won’t be outrage. There won’t be any mass movement to take back this country. That’d mean having their credit ratings threatened, or missing Oprah. If openly torturing innocents is accepted by OUR population as “a necessary ‘evil,’” and killing 800,000 Iraqi civilians is accepted by OUR population as ‘collateral damage’ then where the hell do we off being all indignant because the Bozo we allowed to do all this horrific crap turns out to have pulled the same thing ON our population?
I’ll let you decide if that sounds like a form of poetic justice. Think Madison or Jefferson or Paine would put up with bush for one hot minute? I don’t.
But hey, how ’bout that Oprah giveaway show?…….
November 26th, 2007 at 2:04 amComment by had enough — November 26, 2007 @ 1:18 am
Why the secrecy? The short answer is that there is information which will make it impossible for any neocon to get a job.
The longer answer is:
They hope that by blocking/censoring/ignoring embarrassing questions, at least until after the election, they might salvage a few seats in Congress. A few hold outs in office, while their buddies control the Supreme Court, will be able to ride out the worst of the storm.
There will be a more than a few appointees and “career hires” who will be difficult to get rid of. Unless they’re indicted. However, the new government (I really do think we will see a sweeping change. On good days.) Will be able to demote a lot of them or create less dangerous positions.
Lots of neocons are afraid of the post election “witch hunt” but, as usual, they’ve got it wrong. Witches aren’t, to the best of my knowledge, “real”. As such it should be impossible to hunt them.
What they are really afraid of is a real live “sting operation” or “criminal hunt”, if you prefer. Criminals are very real and, when they are as overexposed as the current administration, relatively easy to “hunt”.
There, that’s my guess. I think that the current administration, and lord knows who else, will devote their remaining time altering and destroying evidence about virtually every move they’ve made. Ethical or not.
And that’s without mention of 9/11.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:15 amLike JFK’s assassination, the truth will probaby never be known. A good Conspiracy is one where the perpetrators do not get caught. Excessive secrecy and incompetent investigations breed Conspiracy Theories. But if you own the media, the politicians, the intelligence agencies and the Department of Justice, you can tell people the Emperor has no clothes and get away with it, so it does not really matter what a few “nuts†think so long as it does not go mainstream.
So get over it and let’s see what the next chapter in the larger conspiracy to form a One World Government holds.
Comment by MiMiCcs — November 26, 2007 @ 1:29
We need to take the Constitution back, including changing the media to what the framers of the Constitution intended.
Get over it? It is not in the American nature. There are too many out there fed up and, quite frankly, one more questionable event may spark a revolution…. that I do not want to see… but many are at the breaking point as it is.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:17 am
I think the results would have been even higher if the poll question had omitted the word “specific”.
It’s undeniable that the US government had warnings about 9/11.
It depends what you mean by “specific” warnings.
I don’t think that anybody claims that the B*sh regime had warnings that 19 al Qaeda highjackers would commandeer four planes in the morning of September 11, 2001 and crash them into the WTC, the Pentagon, and the Capitol.
But how “specific” is “specific”?
Obviously, they ignored the threat. Condi Rice even complained that the Clinton administration seemed “obsessed” with al Qaeda. The August 6 PDB should have been treated like an alarm beel. Instead, Dubya dismissed the briefer with “Alright, you covered your ass, you can go”.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:57 amDo you know where all the evidence for the Tyco and Enron scandal investigations were kept?
along with the new investigation they were doing on the 2 trillion missing from the DOD?
(that Rumy announced on…Sept. 10th)…building 7.
From what I understand, this is half correct. The accounting information on DOD expenditures that were destroyed were in the section of the Pentagon that was bombed. Hows that for coincidence?
November 26th, 2007 at 3:08 amBartlebee,
Here is an interesting article on the science fiction weapons the pentagon, Rand Corp etc. are working on. Some are being tested in Iraq and their use domestically is only a matter of time (in the near future) by local police. We have no idea what is and has been going on technologically.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174847/nick_turse_the_pentagon_s_100_year_war
November 26th, 2007 at 3:17 amDay Tripper: If your supposed tome on truth is referencing “mainstream media sourcesâ€, then how can it be anything but Bush propaganda?? You seem to be “tripping†yourself up on your own pitard there.
Veritas. where else are we to get our information? all the current theories are based mostly on mainstream sources. and until you go to cooperative research and see the volume you wont know what im talking about. and no offense but you give bush too much credit. chances are he knew less than you of any conspiracy.
Besides, I’ve located a bundle of 911 truth sites which are far from bogus and provide very damning evidence and testimony. Granted the sites are growing as mass consciousness is expanding, however, to make the judgment that they’re all nonsense is a gross overstatement, DayTripper. Are you drinking Kool Aid yourself right now?
dont get me wrong there are many extremely credible ones and i use them myself. im just telling people to be careful. there is nonsense out there quite obviously designed to steer new people away from the good sites. a popular modern “theory” is no planes. all you need is Paul Thompsons time-line at Co-Operative Research (.org). His site provides a single source for all news stories that the majority of the rest base their arguments on.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:18 amTracking the 19 Hijackers
What are they up to now?
At least 9 of them survived 9/11
If you check the Flight Manifests released by both airlines to CNN you will find that there are no names that relate to any of the accused terrorists. Somehow 19 people boarded 4 commercial aircraft without being listed.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:18 amThat theory breaks down here.
To my knowledge there is no technology available today that can fly a jumbo jet by remote control.
A toy airplane yes. A Commerical Jetliner. No. — BARTLEBEE
******************************************
Watch “Loose Change’…according to their sources, the technology is indeed in existence and has been successfully tested.
It doesn’t eeven stop there. According to the documentary, technology which convincingly mimics people’s own voices is also in existence and has been successfullly tested — the documentary alleges that this technology is potentially the source of at least some of the mobile telephone calls which were supposedly made from the planes.
Actually, if these claims are true, the existence of this latter technology is potentially quite frightening. If the government is already aware of it and has used it to effect as this documentary suggests, what’s to stop them from hypothetically utilizing it to manufacture evidence against someone that they want to put behind bars — say, by faking a taped conversation in which this person makes threats against the United States? Voila…instant “enemy combatant”. How would someone manage to successfully refute evidence which at least to the casual observer appears to be in his/herown voice, even though he/she knows for a fact that he/she never did and never would say any such thing?
November 26th, 2007 at 3:45 amThe whole sad truth is here:
http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com
November 26th, 2007 at 7:57 amThe Media knows and is concealing the ENTIRE TRUTH.
Media ownership study ordered destroyed
Sept 14, 2006
‘Every last piece’ destroyed
Adam Candeub, now a law professor at Michigan State University, said senior managers at the agency ordered that “every last piece” of the report be destroyed. “The whole project was just stopped – end of discussion,” he said. Candeub was a lawyer in the FCC’s Media Bureau at the time the report was written and communicated frequently with its authors, he said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14836500/
“You can’t tell any more the difference between what’s propaganda and what’s news.”
FCC Commissioner Jonathan Adelstein
November 26th, 2007 at 8:19 am15 August, 2006
When the truth of this ENTIRE CONSPIRACY is finally revealed to the American people, they will be pissed off enough to not only throw the bums out, but to boycott the Mainstream Media that enabled it.
CNN Continues to run banner ads all over the web proclaiming that you can walk “IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF BIN LADEN” – a promo for a show that they now run every week.
THIS IS GOVERNMENT SPONSORED PROPAGANDA.
BIN LADEN IS DEAD.
And now this gem from Government Propaganda Network FOX:
Bin Laden’s Former Girlfriend Reveals Shocking Details in New Book
Monday, August 21, 2006
By John Gibson
Bin Laden had the hots for Whitney Houston.
That’s what we’re learning from Kola Boof, the Sudanese poet and novelist whose new book “Diary of a Lost Girl” draws on her experiences as one of bid Laden’s girlfriends. Actually she says she was bin Laden’s sex slave for a while.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209691,00.html
EARTH TO AMERICA…
IT IS ALL GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA!
THEY STILL WANT YOU TO FEAR A GUY WHO IS DEAD.
For those of you who actually believe that Bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks, the FBI Most Wanted web site disagrees with you, and so does Wikipedia:
“The FBI does not yet have ‘hard evidence’ linking him to the 9/11 attacks and so as of 2006 he has only been indicted on the embassy murders; he is officially still only a suspect in ‘other terrorist attacks throughout the world’.”
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
To each of you – go ahead, tell me again about the one where Osama Bin Laden attacked America on 9/11.
Anybody?
Anybody?
Have you actually LOOKED at the person in the fake Bin Laden video?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html
The FBI declines to confirm its authenticity.
BECAUSE IT’S FAKE!
BIN LADEN DID NOT ATTACK US ON 9/11.
Bush knows for a fact that Bin Laden is dead.
How does it make you feel that the dumbest MF ever to sit in the Oval Office thinks you’re dumber than he is.
We need to take back the airwaves for WE THE PEOPLE.
We need to use the ANTI-TRUST LAWS (you remember laws?) to break up the triad of Propaganda networks that have enabled this military coup, and take the money out of the election process and Nationalize the oil industry and recover all of the ill-gotten gains that these criminals have stolen from our Treasury, and bring the damn troops home and cut off Israel from receiving another dime.
.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:20 amWow Faiz and TP, over 300 comments! How many stories do you run that receive this much interest and feedback? Most of which is intelligent and civil.
Thanks again for “allowing” such conversation. Maybe we will get to the bottom of this and you will have helped. Maybe. Lots of people want this. Need this.
With respect and kindness.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:26 amAre you a coincidence theorist?
Clearly there was a conspiracy between Libby and Cheney. Conspiracy is a legal term. Can we all be adults and discuss this and other related conspiracies without being accused of being “Conspiracy Theorists?”
Having a theory about a conspiracy was a prerequisite for Fitzgerald’s investigators. It’s time to praise those who are able to think outside the box and comprehend the means, motive and opportunity that leads to these types of Conspiracies.
It’s time to raise the level of discourse where the term “Conspiracy” is concerned:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/reports/2005/franklin_indictment_04aug2005.htm
We’ve all been conditioned to snicker and ridicule when non-professionals offer theories about conspiracies. It’s time to talk about all of these theories and unravel the whole thing.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:27 amThe people “poisoning the well of 911 evidence” are lockstep Bushbots and Republicans. They’ve got a HUGE vested interest in this information not being exposed. Use your gift of “discernment” and use it well. Remember: The human is hardwired to discern truth from bullshit. Listen to your guts and connect the dots which are becoming as obvious as the nose on your face. Be not fooled by sycophantic media whores (and we all know who they are). These “wolves in sheep’s clothing” have outed themselves and cannot be trusted. Eliminate them from you life immediately because their only function is to confuse the mind.
We KNOW the sad truth and it’s just our fractured national ego which is keeping us from acknowledging it – in it’s ugliness and criminality. Keep asking yourself the integral question: How can you NOT believe at this point that the Bush Cabal had everything to gain by 911.
Begin with “how can we NOT believe” this to be true and try working backwards instead of the reverse now that we’ve seen Bush’s true colors in just about every aspect of his government.
If you work from the Napoleonic premise of law – guilty until proven innocent – you won’t get very far up the chain of reason before you will be totally convinced that this was an “inside job”.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:34 amThen ask yourself a second question: What has Bush said in 6 years that has been shown to be true? What has Bush said in the past 6 years that has turned out to be a bold-faced lie? A man (and his position) is judged by his level of personal honesty. This man has done nothing but lie to the people, pathologically and repeatedly. The Jury’s not “out” in this case; it’s coming in with mounting evidence every day of the week.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:36 amThen list the “things gained” by this crime cabal and I think you’ve found your TRUTH.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:37 amJust one question. How did Bush talk 19 guys in to flying four planes to their death? and I ain’t a troll and think Bush is the worst President in our history. I just don’t get the 17 Saudis doing this for Bush.
Comment by Joefriday — November 25, 2007 @ 10:35 pm
The Saudis would not have to know about any mission for Bush or any other besides Bin Laden. Over one hundred thousand worked on the manhatten project though only a little more than 100 people knew what the project was. Bush did not have to know. That’s why we need an investigation Independant style.
How did they get a positive DNA match so quickly? They would havce to have all the remains (disinigrated) and go back to the native countries and get samples to match against. This is a big whole in the official story. As well as finding a perfectly intact passport (made of paper) that just happened to be one of the hijackers in the molten rubble of the WTC.
Still I am no DNA expert. Though I have been watching videos my whole life. How about a video of a plane hitting the pentagon? What no cameras working that day?
We are living under an undefined coup of sorts.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:55 amSo get over it and let’s see what the next chapter in the larger conspiracy to form a One World Government holds.
Comment by MiMiCcs — November 26, 2007 @ 1:29 am
Not a chance.
November 26th, 2007 at 9:07 amComment by DreamCrusher — November 26, 2007 @ 5:14 am
Hi ya Dream Crusher. Welcome to the conversation. So you must have seen a video of a plane hitting the pentagon? No? Oh dear why? All those cameras too. You going to believe what the gov’t tells you to believe or you going to believe your eyes instead? Please link to any such video if you can. No? Oh dear why? No cameras that day at the pentagon?
I ask you DC, Do you believe the offical story about 9/11? Do you?
with respect and kindness.
November 26th, 2007 at 9:16 am51% of Americans want Cheney/Bush probed by Congress about their role in 911 according to a recent Zogby Poll:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354
These numbers will continue to increase. Why, because PhD’s, physicists, leading architects and engineers, well known politicians and celebrities are questioning the government’s theory about what happened on 911.
The government claims that 19 Arabs were able to learn how to fly airliners with little training then hijack 3 out 4 of them with nothing but box cutters. With no help from the ground they were able to hit 3 out 4 targets against the most heavily defended air space in the world. The airliner that allegedly hit the pentagon (very little debris at crash site to indicate an airliner hit the building) was in the air for almost two hours before striking a building with its’ own surface to air missile batteries and with Andrews air force base less than 10 miles away. The airliner that supposedly attacked made a full circle around the building to hit the only unoccupied portion of the pentagon (the reason being that this wing of the pentagon was being renovated to withstand an attack from the air)? Let us not forget how the 3 towers collapsed at free fall speeds into their own footprints with no resistance from the lower floors defying physics that day. This as a result of a hydrocarbon fire? Why didn’t the government release more than 15 frames of the pentagon attack? The FBI confiscated videos from a highway camera, a Hotel camera and a gas station camera. Why? Their are literally hundreds of unanswered questions that the 911 commission ignored? Why? Why did the Bush administration fight so hard against an independent investigation into the most horrific attack on the U.S. ever? When the investigation became inevitable why did the Bush administration starve it of funds and impede it in every possible way? Why wouldn’t Bush and Cheney testify initially and when they finally realized that they had to go before the commission why did they insisted that it could not be done under oath and that they had to testify together?
November 26th, 2007 at 9:20 amEMAIL THIS MORON AT:
Andy.Soltis@nypost.com
He needs to know what an IDIOT he is!
November 26th, 2007 at 9:52 amI do not know what role the Clintons played in 911 but I do know that 911 happened on president “shit for brains” watch.
51% of Americans want a congressional probe in the role that Bush/Cheney played on 911
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1354
November 26th, 2007 at 10:17 amIt’s this type of equivocation that creates more and more Truthers out there.
Comment by DreamCrusher — November 26, 2007 @ 5:14 am
Desperately trying to appear as though you know what you’re talking about, huh?
Come back when you’re sober.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:31 amSo, it’s not just me!
I believe that Cheney and Rove told the little woodenhead something to this affect, “… they are planning to highjack planes and fly them into important landmarks but our experts say that they have zero chance of hitting something like the world trade center; instead they will miss their target and crash into something less substantial and the casualties will permit us to go start a war with various countries…”.
A conversation such as this, the limited intellect and the moral bankruptcy of our little woodenhead president would explain his being dumbfounded (nothing new) in that Florida preschool.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:38 amHow about it, ThinkProgress; care to call for an independent prosecutor to conduct a criminal investigation?
Comment by Briseadh na Faire
I have to agree. Push for a full criminal investigation NOW.
Comment by Left Coast Mike — November 25, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
Ditto! Double Ditto!
November 26th, 2007 at 11:40 amBush knew? Of course he did! he help set 9/11 up! He had his brother Marvin Bush was working on WTC7? Doing what? Setting up the fireworks? 9/11 has Bush written all over it. How about Larry Silverstein, cashed in big time on the WTC7 collapse. The look on Bush’s face when he was told that a plane had struck one of the WTC towers, paranoid accomplice. His eyes shifting back and forth totally give it away. IT IS SO OBVIOUS THAT BUSH IS BEHIND 9/11. He should be tried and burned on the stake like Joan of Arc! Bush 9/11 criminal! THIEF!
November 26th, 2007 at 12:45 pmManslagt and other neocons are rewriting the past in order to emphasize the “fact” that the Fall of Man, the Deluge, the sack of Rome, the Great Fire of London, the plague, the Holocaust, geocentric theory, the Terror, the Influenza epidemic of the early 20th century, boll weevils, tent caterpillars, scurvy, and Carrot Top are all Bill Clinton’s legacy.
And I left out a lot of stuff.
Please, Manslagt, please shut your pie hole, as previously requested. Or get a new line of crap.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:53 pmWe are living under an undefined coup of sorts.
Look at what happened following 911. All the same loss of liberties, looting of the treasury and increased war; The same behaviors that have immediately followed every other coup across the face of history. If it looks like a duck.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:10 pmI note that the entire ending of this thread is occupied by two operatives in a food fight, attempting to ensure that the truth (posted above) be obscured from view.
Bartlebee = operative.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:19 pmI see that the “Dark Side” finally found this thread. What’s so hard to understand? Many people are not satisfied with the explanations offered by the administration about a host of issues. What we want is open investigations and accountability.
Personally, if the administration’s position were, “we screwed up and we’re finding, and fixing, the problems” I would be much less suspicious. Alas, Bushco has not taken this approach. They have failed to take responsibility for much of anything. They have not provided answers to important questions and have stonewalled investigations. This has failed to satisfy me on a number of issues including “gaps” in the 9/11 Commission.
All that people like me want is to return to the days when oversight was practiced, if not welcomed. I would be perfectly willing to accept ANY answer provided by independent investigators. But Bushco denies us this.
This alone has left them open to speculation. And, considering the gravity of possible misdeeds and the worldwide effect of their actions; every person on this planet deserves answers.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:30 pmTo BARTLEBEE and Manslagt
I have a great idea. Let’s put both Clinton and Bush under oath and let’s get to the bottom of this. Let’s also put the guy who owned the buildings as well as guliani. Why don’t we put some of the original 911 commision under oath as well. Don’t forget Cheney. Lets also put the guy who is in charge of the surveillence videos over at the pentagon.
What do we have to lose? Seriously.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:31 pm“I would think that you could come up with something you WOULD HAVE DONE if you had been Goerge W. Bush in August 2001.”
Anything, perhaps? Something? And I don’t mean the one-handed exercise he engaged in, I mean something substantive.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:41 pmAnd by the way, Manslug, shut your pie hole.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:42 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — November 26, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Thanks for the reply. I can tell by your many passionate posts where your heart is. And from where I stand, I can clearly see your heart is in the right place. We need more like you.
I agree that the Clinton argument is a troll technique. A chance to derail the focus of gaining an independant investigation.
I just wonder how the minority can get away with calling truthers wackos etc.
We should know from our ‘08 candidates exactly where they stand in their belief of the official story.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pmI don’t get it.
I could care less about dems or rep. I just want an independant investigation into 911. I harbor no hatred nor do I play into the whose smarter game. Because comments along those lines are nothing but a game and also a window into the communication ability of the poster.
Like some talking head said, you don’t impeach someone because you hate them, You impeach because you love the office, you impeach out of respect for the constitution. (paraphrase)
I have nothing , and I mean nothing, against you. I am puzzled on why citizens protect those who are refusing to get to the truth. Maybe you could explain?
Like I said before, put ‘em all on the stand, under oath. Who cares what Bin Laden says. Who cares what party they are in.
With respect and kindness to all.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:01 pmComment by Manslagt — November 26, 2007 @ 2:52 pm
Don’t take the bait! Let the troll rant. It clearly has nothing to left to add.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:05 pmThanks Pete. I need to remind myself of that from time to time.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:06 pmsee the whole Clinton/Bush blame game.
its utterly pointless. Please learn to separate Government and State. Governments need not know what state actors are up to, and at times it is better that they remain voluntarily ignorant (plausible deniability).
Blaming Bush merely helps the real masterminds get away. infact they are probably laughing their asses off at the flak bush receives.
As i said yesterday, if you want real insight into how events such as 911 could well be false flag operations you need go no further than Operation Gladio. Not even the governments of the nations where it was operation had any idea it was going on. For 50 odd years !!!
And I may add that such knowledge lends much credence to the notion that not only was 911 a false flag, but so was Madrid and the London bombings.
Its called a “strategy of tension”.
If you buy one book this christmas make it: Nato’s Secret Armies by Daniele Ganser.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:14 pmComment by Hug The Moon — November 26, 2007 @ 3:06 pm
Me too. And sometimes it’s fun to indulge in troll bashing. But, I think that this particular subject demands a little extra tact and self-control. JMHO.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:30 pmComment by BARTLEBEE — November 26, 2007 @ 5:07 pm
I am always in favor of pertinent questions from any source. Even trolls. Often; the questions we ask, which get ignored, are more telling than those which are, inadequately, answered.
I didn’t mean that you, or anyone else, had been “troll bashing”. I was just noting that one of our pet trolls was on the verge of derailing the discussion with tripe. The manslag troll had, clearly, run out of pertinent questions and deserved no further encouragement.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:17 pmIn 1998, US intelligence learned of an al-Qaeda plan to attack the WTC using airliners and to attack the Pentagon and other government buildings. In the spring of ‘01 officials learned of a plan to attack the G-8 Conference in Genoa that Bush attended by crashing an airplane into the building where the meeting was held. In June of 2001, the US received warnings of an attack outside the US and Bush ordered all US ships from Middle East ports, called the FBI out of Yemen where they were looking for those who bombed a US ship, and ordered the Marines out of Jordan where they conducted war games. The FBI complained of information fatigue because they received so many warnings. Twelve other nations, including Russia and Israel, warned the administration of an impending attack.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:30 pmIf they “allowed it to happen” then why did the towers fall? Must have been something in building 7 to bring that down…
If they “allowed it to happen” why did it happen on Sept. 11, the same day our covert operatives installed Pinocet in a coup in Chile in 1973 (forced prvatization, Patriot Act type legislation, ect. ect.) that was on Sept. 11th 1973…
funny day for the “terrorists” to pick, huh?
If we “allowed it to happen” then that would have meant that someone was dumb enough to think they could fly a hijacked jumbo jet through the most heavily guarded air space on the planet… and that they could hit the most heavily guarded building on the planet…
who would think that in 2001? Would you be that dumb?
If we “allowed it to happen” then we must have figured that the pilots would hand over control of their aircraft (all of them) without saying a word on the radio to air traffic controlers, or flipping the “hijack” switch (which takes about 1/2 of a second to do).
because none of them did that. none of them even had a 1/2 of a second.
and all of them, even the ones with military backgrounds and training in counter hijacking tactics, all of them handed over thier planes to guys who wiegh 145 lbs… armed with a breakoff 1″ razor knife….
If we “allowed it to happen” then we had to trust “hijacker nutjobs” not to change their minds and hit the Sears tower instead… (not rigged with explosives) or the United States Capitol building (mush more symbolic).
Allowed it to happen? I don’t think so. There was way too much riding on this to leave anything to chance…
November 26th, 2007 at 5:35 pmThat is wise of you Bartlebee.
It took me about a year of doing my own investigations to come to this conclusion, and I dre say, it wasn’t “Loose Change” that did it.
Though that is a pretty good flick.
9/11 is the spark they are using to change everything we know about how this country operates.
From foreign policy to domestic programs, everything for the corporations and nothing for the average citizen. All from 9/11.
The trillion we have spent in Iraq is nothing compared to all the money spent here as well, and in other countries to “support the war on terror”. All the money and weapons handed over to our “coalition of the willing” partners…
9/11 has been the biggest boon to corporate America, ever.
And we just keep taking it up the butt. It’s not a coincidence and it wasn’t something they left to chance. We need an investigation, now, before the elections, because Hillary and Rudy will never do it.
Now or never people. You want your country back or not.
Nice chatting with you Bartlebee. I need a drink.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:01 pmBartlebee – are you serious?
November 26th, 2007 at 6:09 pmYou tube search “Loose Change” Bartlebee… good place to really start with some info… then i would suggest scholars for 911 truth and justice, architects and engineers for 911 truth and stephen jones…
good places to start… don’t have too much fun. :(
November 26th, 2007 at 6:16 pmoh, only loose change is a you tube video, the rest are sites and people associated with 911 truth.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:16 pmI will say, again, Thank You TP for allowing what has come to be regarded as some sort of taboo/banning/unspeakable offense in some of the lesser blogs. Why 9-11 evidence inspires such umbrage in other blog monitors is a mystery. Unsurprisingly, any real American wants the truth, and questioning a phony administration repeatedly, especially after their offering of a sham “investigation” has become nothing short of a revolutionary act around the blogosphere thanks to the (self?)-imposed gag rules at lesser sites.
Again, Thank You TP! You guys rock!
November 26th, 2007 at 6:41 pmI know I’m seriously late to this party, but I read through most of the comments, and I noticed that nobody mentioned following the money.
Some people made HUGE pots of money selling American and United Airlines short in the days before 9/11 — who are they, and why haven’t they been investigated…?
Same with the insurance payouts.
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:03 pmRead Sec of Transportation’s Norman Mineta’s testimony to the 911 commision and you can see how Cheney handled our airspace.
Why has there been no investigation into the Air Forces lack of response? Is this the smoking gun?
Comment by gumby — November 25, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
See and hear right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzL87E0QY-g
November 26th, 2007 at 7:33 pm“All Great Truths begin as blasphemies.”
G.B. Shaw
November 27th, 2007 at 12:19 amnot 1 of them willing to follow though and explain how that works with the flags that were actually involved.
6 years kids and still no conspiracy theory to be found.
i would have thought the flag was rather obvious. unless the 6 year long “war on terror” managed to skip right past you unnoticed. plus you have also to get round the inconvenient fact that False Flag terror has been in the western intelligence toolbox for many many decades.
As for the nationality of the perputrators, that also is easily explained. the saudis are part of the club. and i imaging the country is brimming with intelligent assets, including scores of potential patsies. there is no way they are going to use Iraqis, as it would be too much of a wild card. plus they probably dont have access to a large pot of iraqi assets.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:56 amThey can also weather the flak directed at Saudi Arabia by the very easy tactic of not talking about it. which is exactly what we see. not even the violent punishment of a rape victim can shift the priviledged status SA has in US power circles.
And besides all that you would still have to explain, using the official theory, why Saudi Arabia has went completely unpunished.
“… but not 1 of them willing to follow though and explain how that works with the flags that were actually involved.”
Man, you are bright Kilo… I don’t know how I can keep up with you… but here go we anyway…
Blaming al Qaeda was the false flag operation, because the PRIMARY target wasn’t Iraq! The first place we went was Afghanistan! Remember the Taliban? Well, those guys were refusing to let the Trans Afghan Pipeline go thru thier country to the Caspian Basin.
From Pakistan (are we supporting them much these days? hmmm) up through Afghanistan (building it right after we removed Taliban and put an Oil Company Representative in charge of Afghanistan. He just HAPPENED to work for the same company that was trying to build the Trans Afghan Pipeline…
Why didn’t they make them Afghanis or Iraqis? Well, because they were recruited by the Saudi Royal Family, and EVERYBODY knows that the majority of fighters in the Taliban are from other countries… primarily Saudi Arabia (like bin Laden, don’t you know)
So there you have it. After your exhustive search to find and answer to your theory crippling question, you have finally found someone who can explain why they picked those nationalities for the false flag operation.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:17 amKilo says about the suggestion that the bin Laden “confesion” video was a fake – kilo says “Must we debunk this same worn out old lie every month ?”
Well then Kilo, you should take your VAST array of SKILLS to the FBI and offer to help them, becaus they say the jury is still out on that one, and they will not confirm the authenticity of the video…
In Fact, when you look at bin Laden’s wanted posted, there is no mention of him being charged with the attacks of 9/11…
“The Muckraker Report spoke with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI. When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on Bin Laden’s Most Wanted web page, Tomb said, “The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.â€
So you can keep “debunking” that serious question about the validity of the “confession” video all you want, but the FBI dosn’t seem to agree with you. And they looked closely at the video too I would imagine.
Oh, and don’t forget, bin Laden did say in several interviews right after 9/11 that he had nothing to do with it because the leaders of the Taliban wouldn’t let him do anything to antagonize the US (cus they knew the US wanted a reason to attack them and run the Trans Afghan Pipeline thru Afghanistan).
See how the pieces all fit nicely together when you take the time to read?
November 27th, 2007 at 9:32 amAn unfortunate side effect of this line of thinking is the creeping paranoia of subsequent events. it doesnt really bother me personally, and im quite comfortable with the knowledge that we are lied to. we are lied to anyway on so much that this doesnt make much difference.
We should also never forget to look at 911 not as a single unique event, but part of an ongoing process. The some parts of that process are overt and obvious, such as the subsequent two wars. much of it is covert, such as the SAS being caught in Iraq, dressed as arabs and being armed to the teeth with light machine guns and explosives. (By the way the same outfit used similar tactics here in Northern Ireland.). There are also future events we should try to gain an understanding of, if thats possible. The media are a good indication of what might lay in wait for us, and if you listen to the talking heads it is quite obvious that the running meme for new attacks seems to be nuclear. Glenn Beck and many more continually talk about it. Not that they are privvy o any plans, they dont need to be. but they can certainly be steered to talk about certain issues in certain ways.
With that in mind i think we should understand that events such as the Minot/Barksdale Nuke incident could quite possibly be the same elements at work. As the below article suggests, screwing up with nuclear weapons is just not done. the regulations are so severe that even one minor deviation would raise alarms. in the barksdale incident we see large scale collapse of the regulations. like 9/11 a series of unbelieveable coincidents converged to put armed nuclear missiles on a bomber, unguarded.
read more here
Of course this could all merely be part of their fear factor and “strategy of tension”, but i just cant get round the notion that terrorism is much too valuable a commodity not to use.
Afterall the greatest tyrants of the last century knew only too well the value of terror:
“Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives
people harder than a fear of sudden death.”
— Adolf Hitler
“The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out
November 27th, 2007 at 11:29 amacts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their
personal security is threatened”.
— Josef Stalin
Check out this book
The 48 Laws of Power is a book by Robert Greene and published by Joost Elffers in 1998. The book is similar to Niccolò Machiavelli’s The Prince,[1] with the main difference being that the audience is not royalty, but the masses. It takes the form of a manual which provides laws for those who seek to increase their power in life. The work aims to illustrate that “certain actions always increase one’s power … while others decrease it and even ruin us.”
November 27th, 2007 at 11:40 amI’m sorry to hear you are closed minded about the idea that 9/11 could possibly be an inside job. May I refer you to http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011805_simplify_case.shtml
Anyone who really researched this, rather than covering eyes and plugging ears, could not possibly believe the official story. (I used to teach physics, too.)
November 27th, 2007 at 4:41 pmWhile it’s all well and good that you all get on Think Progress and discuss these matters, it appears that despite the facts that you have at hand and have compiled, have been compiled, set forth and put forth. Bartlebee accuses me of being ineffective. . . he’s right. I lack your expertise.
If you all with the expertise don’t get together and compile a compelling case, it’s likely that you will never be heard anywhere but here. Perhaps you lack organizational skills . . . many nonprofits could organize if you have the political will.
Bart thinks I’m a troll. Far from it. I organize here at home and would be more than happy to help at a national level. You lack organization.
Get it together. Not every organizer has time to work on both local, national and poorly organized campaigns.
One thing to spit . . . another to swallow.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:38 amSpit, you’re a vouryer . . . swallow, you’re invested.
Don’t be a prev . . . be an investor. . . if republicans weren’t so invested in the process, would they control more than 1% of the money in this country?
The didtz that is Brittany Spears endorsed Bush . . . ugh . . . he probably hates that too . . . but she makes $700,000 a week.
Bush’s VP, Halliburton was fined more than $500 million for his shinanigans in Kasickstan (sp? recall Borat? Don’t think he would screw a minority for a buck? Bush didn’t land in NO after Katrina after the hurricaine because, after the drowning of the local black population, Rove saw the opportunity to turn the Gulf Coast Red.
Willyloman & Bilbo – it isn’t that I disagree with your politics, I just think that you approach it badly & ineffectively. . . if it were merely poorly, we could probably get a bunch of rappers like Def Jam to fund a rehab of NO . . . you louts couldn’t even manage that. . . a few have joined up with NO legends to fund it, to correct the Bush disaster themselves. Pathetic.
World Trade Center was definitely a disaster. . . it was tragis . . so is/was New Orleans & the entire Gulf Coast. . . if you want a sick contest, more died or were displaced or were raped and killed subsequently in New Orleans & the Gulf Coast . . . . where is the love? where is Guiliani? shere are any of the candidates?
California wildfire victims don’t want the trailors. The trailors were all built in China, full of amonia . . . regs state that government officials aren’t allowed in.
Yeah, the WTC is a problem, but isn’t it ironic that Americans from coast to coast have been displaced from their homes while Bush has been at home in Crawford, surrounded by Secret Service and thousand dollar flower arrangements, orchestrating a war against a country that didn’t bomb us in Iraq (and ignoring Afghanistan, or rather, coddling up to a country that did – Saudi Arabia – most of the bombers were Saudis – none Iraqi). God bless American soldiers. . . . we could have used them and their equipment at home.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:03 amSeems that some of us may be in good company. Another poltician has weighed into the fray. The wheels may fall off the wagon yet.
http://www.corriere.it/politica/07_novembre_30/osama_berlusconi_cossiga_27f4ccee-9f55-11dc-8807-0003ba99c53b.shtml
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Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job
Man who set up Operation Gladio tells Italy’s largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, December 4, 2007
Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio Francesco Cossiga has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy’s most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.
Cossiga was elected President of the Italian Senate in July 1983 before winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.
Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed – an honest politician – and led the country for seven years until April 1992.
Cossiga’s tendency to be outspoken upset the Italian political establishment and he was forced to resign after revealing the existence of, and his part in setting up, Operation Gladio – a rogue intelligence network under NATO auspices that carried out bombings across Europe in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
(Article continues below)
Gladio’s specialty was to carry out what they coined “false flag operations,” terror attacks that were blamed on their domestic and geopolitical opposition.
Cossiga’s revelations contributed to an Italian parliamentary investigation of Gladio in 2000, during which evidence was unearthed that the attacks were being overseen by the U.S. intelligence apparatus.
In March 2001, Gladio agent Vincenzo Vinciguerra stated, in sworn testimony, “You had to attack civilians, the people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple: to force … the public to turn to the state to ask for greater security.”
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Cossiga’s new revelations appeared last week in Italy’s oldest and most widely read newspaper, Corriere della Sera. Below appears a rough translation.
“[Bin Laden supposedly confessed] to the Qaeda September [attack] to the two towers in New York [claiming to be] the author of the attack of the 11, while all the [intelligence services] of America and Europe … now know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan.”
Cossiga first expressed his doubts about 9/11 in 2001, and is quoted in Webster Tarpley’s book as stating that “The mastermind of the attack must have been a “sophisticated mind, provided with ample means not only to recruit fanatic kamikazes, but also highly specialized personnel. I add one thing: it could not be accomplished without infiltrations in the radar and flight security personnel.â€
Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets, because like the hundreds of other sober ex-government, military, air force professionals, allied to hundreds more professors and intellectuals – he can’t be sidelined as a crackpot conspiracy theorist.
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/120407_common_knowledge.htm
December 5th, 2007 at 5:34 am