FACT CHECK: U.S. Health Care Resources Not Burdened By Undocumented Immigrants
FACT CHECK: U.S. Health Care Resources Not Burdened By Undocumented Immigrants
A new study by the University of California’s School of Public Health finds that illegal immigrants do not pose as significant a burden on U.S. Health Care resources as is often claimed. Undocumented immigrants are less likely to have insurance, but seek out health care in much lower numbers:
“Low rates of use of health-care services by Mexican immigrants and similar trends among other Latinos do not support public concern about immigrants’ overuse of the health care system,” the researchers wrote.
“Undocumented individuals demonstrate less use of health care than U.S.-born citizens and have more negative experiences with the health care that they have received,” they said.
The study is based on a 2003 survey of 42,044 people. Researchers compared the health care habits of U.S.-based Mexicans and Latinos and grouped the results according to citizenship or other status.
Among the other findings:
– Undocumented Mexican and Latin American immigrants “are 50% less likely than U.S.-born Latinos to use hospital emergency rooms in California.”
– Mexican Immigrants paid “1.6 fewer visits to doctors” per year than by those born in the U.S. to Mexican immigrants.
– Other “undocumented Latinos had 2.1 fewer physician visits than their U.S.-born counterparts.”
Not only are undocumented immigrants not a burden on the U.S. health care system, but as Alexander N. Ortega, an associate professor at UCLA’s School of Public Health and the study’s lead author points out, they “seem to be underutilizing the system, given their health needs.”
– Dave de Give
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Sorry but this is a bogus study. The impact is when seek healthcare at the emergency room which vastly increases the costs to the insuranced.
This study false!
November 27th, 2007 at 8:59 pmThis study false!
Comment by EasyRider_Real_one — November 27, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
I suppose you have proof of this?
November 27th, 2007 at 9:09 pmplease cite your sources ( unless its your stinky fingers from pulling that out of your a$$ )
What time shall I arrive?
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
You can come over now, my dog is hungry now.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:10 pmLast intruder was a week ago.
The illegals visit the doctor less…because they might be afraid of being I.D’ed as illegal and thrown in the pokey or some such reason? So they wait until their mild ailment has blossomed into a far more serious condition and the E.R. treats pneumonia instread of a mild cold.
Great, those costs are negligible. Don’t bother with the fact of illegality, just concentrate on their total usage. Makes perfect sense.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:12 pmSo if I come into your house illegally and use your food, clothing and medicine without paying for them, but use less than you do, I am not a burden? What time shall I arrive?
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
You mean if you eat the scraps off of the floor? Because that’s the equivalent - dum bass.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:13 pmGreat, those costs are negligible. Don’t bother with the fact of illegality, just concentrate on their total usage. Makes perfect sense.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
Considering the COSTS is one of the justification that you racist bigots use to rally the troops - why not? If you were concerned about LEGALITY, you’d be after Bush for COVERING UP the Plame affair! But as usual, you wingnuts are just ‘tarded hypocrites.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:14 pmSorry but this is a bogus study. The impact is when seek healthcare at the emergency room which vastly increases the costs to the insuranced.
This study false!
Comment by EasyRider_Real_one — November 27, 2007 @ 8:59 pm
Most people that use the emergency room are white poor folks, like the GOP rednecks that also shop at walmart and vote for the GOP in the red states!
And it’s the “cost to the insured”, moron.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:15 pmYou mean if you eat the scraps off of the floor?
Doesn’t the E.R. treat everyone the same? How can it be the scraps if the treatment is meted out equally?
November 27th, 2007 at 9:15 pmDoesn’t the E.R. treat everyone the same? How can it be the scraps if the treatment is meted out equally?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
That means their cost on the system is the equivalent of the scraps you drop. But I’m not surprised you find yourself incapable of handling such a simple concept, while throwing out such a stupid strawman remark Mr. Pee. You aren’t exactly among the INTELLECTUAL GIANTS of this country.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:16 pm“The illegals visit the doctor less…because they might be afraid of being I.D’ed as illegal and thrown in the pokey or some such reason? So they wait until their mild ailment has blossomed into a far more serious condition and the E.R. treats pneumonia instread of a mild cold.”
Yeah, right because an undocumented with pneumonia never gets reported, just the ones with strep.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:18 pmComment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Isn’t this thread about health care costs or are you planning on hijacking it? You want to talk about Bush and Plame then bring it up with the admin to start a new thread.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:19 pmIsn’t this thread about health care costs or are you planning on hijacking it? You want to talk about Bush and Plame then bring it up with the admin to start a new thread.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
Says the ‘tard that compares health care to home invasion…
Poor stupid little fool. Projection is all you’ve got, because the FACTS have a LIBERAL BIAS.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:20 pmYeah, right because an undocumented with pneumonia never gets reported, just the ones with strep.
Comment by AMcG773 — November 27, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
Wow you people are stupid. The point is that illegals KNOW they risk deportation by going in to the hospital, so they wait to avoid the risk. The more visits, the more risk. Even a MORON gets the point, then we have YOU and the REPUBLICAN PARTY!
November 27th, 2007 at 9:21 pmYeah, right because an undocumented with pneumonia never gets reported, just the ones with strep.
Comment by AMcG773 — November 27, 2007 @ 9:18 pm
You missed the point: pneumonia is the desperation stage, they visit the E.R. because they have to, trying to tough it out beforehand while whatever malady they have (pneumonia was just an example) gets worse and worse.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:22 pm“Undocumented individuals demonstrate less use of health care than U.S.-born citizens and have more negative experiences with the health care that they have received,†they said.
Does that mean noncitizens are healthier than U.S. citizens? I doubt it.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:22 pmIf they get sick because they don’t go to the doctor, does the U.S. health care system have to treat noncitizens for more costly, extensive health issues? Yes.
Please. When noncitizens use the U.S. health care infrastructure, it is a burden to the citizens of the U.S., and “negative experiences” be damned. Do you think France or Germany would let American citizens come in and use their health care system? No.
Says the ‘tard that compares health care to home invasion…
Ummmm…that was ‘Cold Hard Left’ who said that, not me.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:23 pmYou missed the point: pneumonia is the desperation stage, they visit the E.R. because they have to, trying to tough it out beforehand while whatever malady they have (pneumonia was just an example) gets worse and worse.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
Thanks for arguing for healthcare for the illegals! Even if you didn’t intend to - poor little ‘tard!
November 27th, 2007 at 9:23 pmUmmmm…that was ‘Cold Hard Left’ who said that, not me.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:23 pm
Yeah, like you’re not the same troll…
November 27th, 2007 at 9:24 pmRepublicans lecturing about legality!!! AH THE IRONY!!!
November 27th, 2007 at 9:26 pmThe point is that illegals KNOW they risk deportation by going in to the hospital, so they wait to avoid the risk. The more visits, the more risk.
Thank you. They avoid risk by not getting their sprained ankle checked which turns out to be a broken ankle instead. The ankle swells up, the bone doesn’t heal properly, the whole thing goes to crap and the illegal now has to have surgery to repair the damage.
Costs of surgery as compared to costs of applying a cast.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:27 pmYeah, like you’re not the same troll…
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 9:24 pm
I seem to have caught a ‘truther’ in my net. Lucky me.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:28 pmDo you think France or Germany would let American citizens come in and use their health care system? No.
Comment by lefttown — November 27, 2007 @ 9:22 pm
Dead wrong, absolutely, totally, completely wrong. Cuba, France, England all alow US citizens FREE treatment. FREE treatment. FREE, FREE, FREE, treatment. Because they’ve grown out of the racist, piggish, selfish, ignorant, frightened mindset that the rightards in the United States of Stupid have never left behind. You’ve proven why the USA is growing ever weaker and less important in the civilized world; because of ignorant fools like you and the rest of the selfish, inhuman trolls here.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:29 pmThanks for arguing for healthcare for the illegals! Even if you didn’t intend to - poor little ‘tard!
Actually I’m arguing for not having illegals here at all. Ya see, they wouldn’t need any healthcare if they weren’t here and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:31 pmThank you. They avoid risk by not getting their sprained ankle checked which turns out to be a broken ankle instead. The ankle swells up, the bone doesn’t heal properly, the whole thing goes to crap and the illegal now has to have surgery to repair the damage.
Costs of surgery as compared to costs of applying a cast.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:27 pm
Thanks for explaining why 50 million UNINSURED Americans undermine the healthcare costs for everyone. Even if you were too stupid to know this is what you did…
I seem to have caught a ‘truther’ in my net. Lucky me.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:28 pm
NET? ROTFL!!! A LYING REPUBLICAN, lecturing about TRUTHERS, ah the IRONY!!!!
Which TRUTH is that? you referring to 911? Speaking of DERAILING A THREAD - more projection, how pathetic. Why don’t you go look up a CIA Agent named Ali Mohamed - the man that TRAINED or was behind the training both WTC groups of attackers. That’s the TRUTH, junior.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:32 pmActually I’m arguing for not having illegals here at all. Ya see, they wouldn’t need any healthcare if they weren’t here and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
I know what you’re arguing, but the reality is we do have them - and their presence isn’t undermining the cost of healthcare - the point of this thread… Dum bass.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:32 pmDead wrong, absolutely, totally, completely wrong. Cuba, France, England all alow US citizens FREE treatment. FREE treatment. FREE, FREE, FREE, treatment.
It isn’t free, barely anything is except perhaps the air you breathe, though I’m sure some poli somewhere will figure out a way to tax it one day.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:33 pmYo summarize the above, the conservatives launch one argument (that illegal aliens overburden the healthcare system), a study is done which shows the assertion to be false, the conservatives switch to another argument and act like they haven’t changed their argument.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pmIt isn’t free, barely anything is except perhaps the air you breathe, though I’m sure some poli somewhere will figure out a way to tax it one day.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
It’s free to the illegal/visitor. That’s the point - ‘tard. Pull your head of your *ss, you’re asphyxiating what pathetic excuse for a brain you have, son.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:34 pmYo summarize the above, the conservatives launch one argument (that illegal aliens overburden the healthcare system), a study is done which shows the assertion to be false, the conservatives switch to another argument and act like they haven’t changed their argument.
Comment by MapleStreet — November 27, 2007 @ 9:34 pm
What can we expect a brain damaged ‘tard to do? Admit they were WRONG? BAHAHHA, that requires they be a (Wo)MAN - and not the selfish stupid little children that they actually are.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:37 pmI know what you’re arguing, but the reality is we do have them - and their presence isn’t undermining the cost of healthcare
You obviously do not know what I am arguing or you would take a closer look at the issue. If even one person who is not entitled to be here uses medical services without paying for them then the costs are being undermined.
“50% less” is a qualitative statement, one that proves that E.R. services are definitely being utilized, just at a lower rate between the polled groups (according to this poll).
November 27th, 2007 at 9:39 pmIt amazes me that businesses are not screaming for universal health care just for the reduction of workers comp. medical costs. This is one area where money is wasted on visits to two different doctors, the injured’s and the insurance company’s.
Gee, how much better it would be to know that the doctors and nurses care about you as a person and not an income stream or probable fraud. But then again that might put some lawyers out of work.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pmthe wealthy’s war on the disadvantaged is thriving in the US.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pm.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:31 pm
Punishing those who willfully hire “illegals” might be a good start. No?
November 27th, 2007 at 9:42 pma study is done which shows the assertion to be false
One study? That is all it takes these days to prove something? Sorry but the data just doesn’t jive, including the natural propensity for illegals to try and keep a low profile these days.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:45 pmPunishing those who willfully hire “illegals†might be a good start. No?
Comment by pete — November 27, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
Sure, across the board, every side of the political spectrum and everyone in between.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:46 pmIt isn’t free, barely anything is except perhaps the air you breathe, though I’m sure some poli somewhere will figure out a way to tax it one day.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:33 pm
It is FREE, absolutely FREE. You’re an idiot, and you have no humanity in you. You should be on a rightwing blog compaining, your rightwing rich buddies are the ones paying the illegals; that’s why they’re here. ER services are being utilized because working people get sick and are injured. You seem to be so ignorant that you don’t realize that government-run health care would lower your tax burden noticeably, and would raise the whole country’s standard of living, even the illegals. You’d be paying LESS, and still getting the best care America has to offer.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:48 pmLefty Patriot wrote:
“Dead wrong, absolutely, totally, completely wrong. Cuba, France, England all alow US citizens FREE treatment. FREE treatment. FREE, FREE, FREE, treatment.”
Here is a quote from the Telegraph about a French woman who now lives in Great Britain. She will no longer get French health care benefits:
November 27th, 2007 at 9:49 pm“One British woman affected by the change said she had been shocked to learn that her cancer treatment would no longer be covered by the French public health system from next spring.”
This woman had paid into the French system all her life until she retired early.
Free health care for everybody in the world, my a**.
One study? That is all it takes these days to prove something? Sorry but the data just doesn’t jive, including the natural propensity for illegals to try and keep a low profile these days.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
But you don’t even have one study, just your racism and fear and ignorance and selfishness. the data are clear, and just because y8ou don’t want to believe it, doesn’t make it not so. Racist.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:49 pmOne study? That is all it takes these days to prove something? Sorry but the data just doesn’t jive, including the natural propensity for illegals to try and keep a low profile these days.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:45 pm
This isn’t the ONLY STUDY, it’s the LATEST. And the numbers DO JIVE, moron. YOU don’t jive, that’s all.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:51 pmthey are not welcome until such time as they follow our laws and enter legally.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
But they are welcome, by corporate employers who don’t want to pay citizens a decent wage or benefits. That’s your side, son, talk to them,not us. We just want people to be treated humanely. Other countries do it for our citizens, all the time. Even Cuba.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:51 pmYou seem to be so ignorant that you don’t realize that government-run health care would lower your tax burden noticeably,
I see how the government health care system has been shafting some of our troopers returning from Iraq. No thanks, I don’t need some gov clerk deciding my healthcare needs for me.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:52 pmWell Wayne, in your own twisted way, you’ve managed to capture how many feel about the illegals. Although most wouldn’t feed them to the dogs, they are not welcome until such time as they follow our laws and enter legally.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 9:49 pm
Or maybe the GOP CONNECTED employers like WALMART should stop IMPORTING them - what do you think?
November 27th, 2007 at 9:52 pmI see how the government health care system has been shafting some of our troopers returning from Iraq. No thanks, I don’t need some gov clerk deciding my healthcare needs for me.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
You confuse the GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE with REPUBLICAN HACKS. And there are plenty of PRIVATE INSURANCES screwing people at a far greater rate - moron.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:53 pmBut you don’t even have one study, just your racism and fear and ignorance and selfishness. the data are clear, and just because y8ou don’t want to believe it, doesn’t make it not so. Racist.
Please point out where I made a racist comment and back up your assertion. Now.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:55 pmPlease point out where I made a racist comment and back up your assertion. Now.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Racism is exactly what’s at the center of this anti-immigration movement. You wingnuts never had any problem as long as the illegals were mostly white, irish and english as they were 30 years ago…
November 27th, 2007 at 9:56 pmYou confuse the GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE with REPUBLICAN HACKS. And there are plenty of PRIVATE INSURANCES screwing people at a far greater rate - moron.
The federal military hospital system has been in existence through the tenure of both parties, if it is federally run then it is GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE; it makes no difference if private insurance is screwing people too.
It’s like watching a homeless guy with a dead raccoon on his head diss another homeless guy because his raccoon is on backwards.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:58 pmI see how the government health care system has been shafting some of our troopers returning from Iraq. No thanks, I don’t need some gov clerk deciding my healthcare needs for me.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:52 pm
that’s because Republicans are in charge. any idiot knows they are incapable of governing. Jesus, you’re a stupid one.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:01 pmComment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 9:56 pm
So you are unable to point to an instance of racism on my part?
Ok, now that we have that out of the way, let’s get to the rest of your post. I am not anti-immigration, I am anti-illegal immigration and there is a huge difference, but then you knew that already.
Nor did I ever make mention of an illegal’s race or ethnicity, unless you want to try again to point out where I did. Illegal is illegal.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:02 pmThe federal military hospital was doing just fine until Reagan-Bush and Bush 2. have you no facts at your command, or are you just going to continue to embarrass yourself with racism, fear and ignorance as your only weapons?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:05 pmIt’s like watching a homeless guy with a dead raccoon on his head diss another homeless guy because his raccoon is on backwards.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:58 pm
So which hat is the private health care hat? If stuck with a single hat, I’d like to wear it a little differently as the old style is outdated and tiresome. I say turn that skunk hat to socialized for awhile. Can’t be any worse. Afterall it is the same hat
November 27th, 2007 at 10:05 pmthat’s because Republicans are in charge. any idiot knows they are incapable of governing. Jesus, you’re a stupid one.
Then you might want to talk to the dems who co-manage the oversight committees which are supposed to monitor these institutions and ask them “wazzup”? A place like Walter Reed didn’t suddenly develop it’s particular problems in the last few years, they have been there for far longer. Blame is shared and I share my condemnation toward them equally.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:07 pmDoesn’t the E.R. treat everyone the same? How can it be the scraps if the treatment is meted out equally?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 9:15 pm
well, there’s a false dichotomy. of course the ER doesn’t treat everyone equally, what makes you think they would?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:08 pmBlame is shared and I share my condemnation toward them equally.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:07 pm
Nice try, but the Dems were shut out of oversight meetings and relegated to basement meeting rooms while the Treason Party screwed our veterans out of their promised benefits. You’re disgusting.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:09 pmNor did I ever make mention of an illegal’s race or ethnicity, unless you want to try again to point out where I did. Illegal is illegal.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:02 pm
O.K, an admitted illegal brings his wife and child here and works picking lettuce. His small child gets very ill and he takes him/her to emergency room. What is your specific plan for this situation. They are already here and illegal. Too late to build 50 ft high wall with razor wire, guard towers, armed snipers, and UAV’s with hellfire missiles.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:13 pmNice try, but the Dems were shut out of oversight meetings and relegated to basement meeting rooms while the Treason Party screwed our veterans out of their promised benefits. You’re disgusting.
Wrong. Murtha visited Walter Reed personally, highlighted the situation in public as he should have done and then proceeded to do nothing about the problem except blame the pubs. Cracked ceilings, leaky roofs, bad plumbing and outdated facilities don’t happen overnight. Both sides have been ignoring it for a while now.
The dems have the Congressional wheel now and Walter Reed should be getting a major overhaul, at least I hope so.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:15 pmThe dems have the Congressional wheel now and Walter Reed should be getting a major overhaul, at least I hope so.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
the Dems have the Congressional wheel? and every time they want to do something positive for the troops, the Treason party filibusters and fights it, and Bush the deserter vetoes it. What country do you live in? It certainly isn’t the US, or you’d have some idea of what’s actually going on, rather than pulling all those phony stories out of your ass. All you do is make excuses for traitors. I wonder what that makes you?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:22 pmComment by Joefriday — November 27, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
The illegal shouldn’t be here picking lettuce or anything else and certainly not on the scale of ten million plus of them. That being said, in the case of the few that do get over here, they get treated and then sent back to their point of origin.
If our laws and our border security were being actually–novel idea here–followed and upheld, we wouldn’t have to worry about ten million plus people being here illegally.
You need to be pragmatic about the situation; there will be some people here illegally, that is just the way it is, but certainly not on the scale of tens of millions.
Right back to the cost issue: multiply your anecdote by ten or fifteen million and you gots a ginormous problem.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:24 pmAs climate continues to alter and as resources especially water continue to diminish we will see more and more of this “bombshelter” thinking. It will be interesting to watch.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:30 pmRight back to the cost issue: multiply your anecdote by ten or fifteen million and you gots a ginormous problem.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:24 pm
It’s actually a very small problem, compared with the costs of mass murder in the Middle East. and, tose people are paying their way picking lettuce. They pay more in taxes than they take in services. You’re just a racist.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:31 pmComment by Lefty Patriot — November 27, 2007 @ 10:22 pm
Bull and you know it. Pubs and dems are too busy paying for useless bridges and buildings named after themselves to concentrate on things like this.
Present a spending bill to update Walter Reed and get the place back in the order it should, no pork and no conditions and you will get it passed in record time because Americans will slaughter the party that checks.
You want to be pollyannaish about the dems being better than the pubs then you need to get your skull examined for leaking fluids, they both suck in most regards.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:31 pmJust some of the issues with this “study” - and the Reuters “reporting” on it - are listed here.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:35 pmYou want to be pollyannaish about the dems being better than the pubs then you need to get your skull examined for leaking fluids, they both suck in most regards.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
You obviously have no idea how badly the Repukes have screwed up the government. Bush illegal domestic spying is being used to shut down Dem politicians and keep repigs completely docile. the people have nothing to say, except in elections where the left turns out enough voters to prevent the wholesale theft of votes by republican traitors. You are willfully blind to the facts. Present a bill to fis walter Reed and Bushco will kill it in committee becasue they will not be embarrassed by the congress they own. You’re a tool, a Good German. Shame on you, and your party. shame.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:36 pmIt’s actually a very small problem, compared with the costs of mass murder in the Middle East.
And a very big problem compared with trying to fund free everything for non-citizens on top of a failing social security disaster coming right at us.
and, tose people are paying their way picking lettuce. They pay more in taxes than they take in services. You’re just a racist.
Considering how much an E.R. visit costs, they must be making some real ching picking lettuce and getting taxed for it. Again, feel free to point out a racist comment by me, or are you left with nothing but snide insults?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:36 pmHospital Emergency Department Use Varies Greatly Across the United States
Contrary to Conventional Wisdom, Communities with More Uninsured, Hispanic or Immigrant Residents Generally Have Lower Levels of Emergency Department Use
“…”Hispanic immigrants—a high proportion of whom are uninsured—are not heavy users of EDs compared to other individuals, including whites with private insurance,” Cunningham said. “And their numbers are still too small in the vast majority of communities nationwide to have a major impact on the health care system in those communities.” …”
http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/861/
November 27th, 2007 at 10:38 pmConsidering how much an E.R. visit costs, they must be making some real ching picking lettuce and getting taxed for it. Again, feel free to point out a racist comment by me, or are you left with nothing but snide insults?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
i know a racist when I see one, and you have lied again. Social Security is not any kind of a problem, none, zero, for at least 20 years. And again, you have been shown the error of your ways: the study shows that illegals are underutilizing the ER, and, if there are millions of them, paying taxes, then they deserve to use the ER as much as they need to. You are wrong, again, or is it still? And we are not funding free everything for non-citizens: they are funding services for themselves, and not using them. Repeating your lies just makes you look retarded, so stop. Racist.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:40 pmComment by Lefty Patriot — November 27, 2007 @ 10:36 pm
That is quite the screed you have there, I must have caught yet one ‘truther’; you guys must travel in packs.
Are you really going to believe that if some dem presented a straightforward bill that funded Walter Reed improvements and advertised it to the American people, that such a bill wouldn’t set a land speed record through Congress and the Senate?
You must be unaware that both sides are awfully busy these days padding their pockets and their districts.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:41 pmCake, if you stop lying about everything, I’ll stop telling everyone the truth about you. that should work for you.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:42 pmi know a racist when I see one, and you have lied again. Social Security is not any kind of a problem, none, zero, for at least 20 years.
So your contention that I am a racist is built on nothing more than personal opinion? Huh, go figure that is the extent of your ability.
Twenty years, is that all? Then we might want to get started about, oh, right NOW since waiting twenty years might make things more difficult. Just a thought.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pmYou must be unaware that both sides are awfully busy these days padding their pockets and their districts.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
i don’t suppose you have any facts to back that up with? Or please post the list of Dems off to jail, under investigation or indictment, if there’s any room left in the universe after the Repig list is posted. You’re getting really boring with these RNC farts you use as arguments. Nothing but lies and bigotry. Nice try at the broad briush, too. Unlike you lockstep brownshirts, I follow no talking points, just the facts. They appear to be against you. I love the Social Security bit, though, that worked really well for the Deserter-In-Chief as well. You people are pathetic.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:46 pmUndocumented immigrants are less likely to have insurance, but seek out health care in much lower numbers:
Ah, you are suggesting that US citizens are the burden and should seek out health care less often. Welcome to the Democrats’ Universal Health Care.
This rationing of health care is what they do in England. It works! The sooner a patient dies, the less they cost the health care system!
November 27th, 2007 at 10:48 pmTwenty years, is that all? Then we might want to get started about, oh, right NOW since waiting twenty years might make things more difficult. Just a thought.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
except you want to destroy it, which will take quite a bit of manouvering and lhying on your part, while fixing it will take one or two small adjustments, which can be done in about 20 minutes. Your silly scare tactics don’t work on thinking people, just wingnuts.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:48 pmthe study shows that illegals are underutilizing the ER, and, if there are millions of them, paying taxes, then they deserve to use the ER as much as they need to.
Not all of them are paying taxes, not all the tax-paying ones are paying the full amount of taxes they should and if even one illegal is gaming the system then the system is being hampered.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:49 pmThis rationing of health care is what they do in England. It works! The sooner a patient dies, the less they cost the health care system!
Comment by muckdog — November 27, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
ah, suckdog joins the list of liars. You do realize that England has a much lower infant mortality rate and overall death rate from illness than America, right, dumbshit?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:50 pmwhile fixing it will take one or two small adjustments, which can be done in about 20 minutes.
Ok, I will give you twenty minutes to tell me how you plan on funding the system.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:51 pmNot all of them are paying taxes, not all the tax-paying ones are paying the full amount of taxes they should and if even one illegal is gaming the system then the system is being hampered.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
well, the millions of Americans, especially the rich, doing the same thing is the problem, not illegals earning $20 a day. I smell more racism.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:51 pmOk, I will give you twenty minutes to tell me how you plan on funding the system.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
Try 3 seconds: raise the income cap.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:51 pmOk, I will give you twenty minutes to tell me how you plan on funding the system.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:51 pm
How about by cutting the 30% overhead out of private insurance to cover the 30% of americans not covered?
While we’re on the topic of ILLEGALS, unless you’re native american, when do you plan on LEAVING THE US, since you’re here due to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:56 pmAh, you are suggesting that US citizens are the burden and should seek out health care less often. Welcome to the Democrats’ Universal Health Care.
This rationing of health care is what they do in England. It works! The sooner a patient dies, the less they cost the health care system!
Comment by muckdog — November 27, 2007 @ 10:48 pm
Americans are already rationed, or didn’t you know that? Insurance companies do it all of the time - or have you missed all of the recent news about this?
England has less rationing, and no uninsured (we have 50 MILLION uninsured) while paying less. You really do enjoy lobbying for failure, don’t you ‘tard?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:58 pmi don’t suppose you have any facts to back that up with?
Heh, you must be under the impression that pork exists only on the right or that Jefferson’s ice dispenser spat out cash rather than cubes.
Both sides play the game, its how bridges to nowhere get build in Alaska and buildings named after Rangel get built in New York.
But you just keep glazing your eyes and pretending you don’t see the excesses on the left as often as you do on the right if it helps you sleep at night. Remember, just because the guy who stole your tv didn’t also steal your stereo doesn’t make him a saint.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:58 pmComment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 10:56 pm
Personally, I think the Mammoths and saber-tooths (teeth?) should have deported all those dang bipeds. Bipeds aren’t to be trusted.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:59 pmNot all of them are paying taxes, not all the tax-paying ones are paying the full amount of taxes they should and if even one illegal is gaming the system then the system is being hampered.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:49 pm
They’re ALL paying taxes, whether it be tolls, sales tax, etc., and most have taxes removed from their checks, even though they may never be eligible for the benefits they’re paying in for - or didn’t you know that?
November 27th, 2007 at 10:59 pmSo your contention that I am a racist is built on nothing more than personal opinion? Huh, go figure that is the extent of your ability.
Twenty years, is that all? Then we might want to get started about, oh, right NOW since waiting twenty years might make things more difficult. Just a thought.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 10:45 pm
No, it’s based on your statements - which are factual evidence of your bigotry. Are you native american? If not your claims of ‘illegal immigration’ is laughable! Stupid little ‘tard.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:00 pmTry 3 seconds: raise the income cap.
You mean a tax hike?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:04 pmNo, it’s based on your statements - which are factual evidence of your bigotry.
I have been called a racist and I have referred only to illegal aliens without regard to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, age, sexual preference or point of origin.
Perhaps you would like to take a stab at any comment I made concerning race; lefty was unable to provide any proof, you might have better luck.
Go ahead.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:08 pmThey’re ALL paying taxes, whether it be tolls, sales tax, etc.
Point taken.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:09 pmI have been called a racist and I have referred only to illegal aliens without regard to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender, age, sexual preference or point of origin.
Perhaps you would like to take a stab at any comment I made concerning race; lefty was unable to provide any proof, you might have better luck.
Go ahead.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:08 pm
You’re here as a non-native person, yet you’re trying to block native americans from Mexico to come to land that was native american for tens of thousands of years. That’s racism. Righty proved he’s a bigot, you might have better luck if you don’t come here so ignorant and bigoted.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:09 pmCan any of the humans here figure out why trolls will gleefully pay Trillions to kill people but, are stark raving terrified they might have to spend $1.00 to help people? Very sad. It must be horrible to live with constant fear and hate.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:10 pmThey’re ALL paying taxes, whether it be tolls, sales tax, etc.
Point taken.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:09 pm
So you admitted you either LIED or were IGNORANT when you made that stupid comment. Now if you realize that’s the tip of the iceberg, you might be on the road to recovery from your GOP Induced foolishness.
Try 3 seconds: raise the income cap.
You mean a tax hike?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
Not at all. It’s the removal of an UNFAIR TAX SUBSIDY for Rich People. Or didn’t you know that - dum bass?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:11 pmCan any of the humans here figure out why trolls will gleefully pay Trillions to kill people but, are stark raving terrified they might have to spend $1.00 to help people? Very sad. It must be horrible to live with constant fear and hate.
Comment by pete — November 27, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
Because they’re heartless, racist, bigoted immoral dum basses.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pmYou’re here as a non-native person, yet you’re trying to block native americans from Mexico to come to land that was native american for tens of thousands of years.
Hysterical claims provide nothing to this debate. Please link to any data concerning my racial or ethnic heritage that proves your assertion.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pmBecause they’re heartless, racist, bigoted immoral dum basses.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
I may going out on a limb here, but I think you’re onto something here, republicans hate facts. You may have hit the proverbial nail on the head.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:15 pmSo you admitted you either LIED or were IGNORANT when you made that stupid comment.
I will freely admit that when I thought of taxes, I specifically thought of taxes directly related to income and did not consider such things as sales tax or tolls. Now you can dance around your room some more in glee though the larger issue of cost still has not been rectified. Bummer.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:16 pmHysterical claims provide nothing to this debate. Please link to any data concerning my racial or ethnic heritage that proves your assertion.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
I already asked - are you a NATIVE AMERICAN, you refused to acknowledge that you are - because you aren’t. Therefore you’re just another ILLEGAL ALIEN in the land of NATIVE AMERICANS. Stupid moron.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:17 pmNot at all. It’s the removal of an UNFAIR TAX SUBSIDY for Rich People
No, it is a tax hike. Will the guy who makes 90 large a year get higher SS benefits than the guy who makes 45 large per year?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:17 pmI will freely admit that when I thought of taxes, I specifically thought of taxes directly related to income and did not consider such things as sales tax or tolls. Now you can dance around your room some more in glee though the larger issue of cost still has not been rectified. Bummer.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:16 pm
That’s the problem with you republicans - you NEVER think through anything - but it doesn’t stop you from sharing your STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE as though you have something of VALUE to add to any discussion. You’re a moron.
The larger issue of COST hasn’t been DEMONSTRATED by you, so your claims to the contrary is just more stupidity.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:18 pmNo, it is a tax hike. Will the guy who makes 90 large a year get higher SS benefits than the guy who makes 45 large per year?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
Why should the person that spends 90k a year pay more sales tax than the guy that spends 40k a year? You really are a complete moron.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:19 pmNo, it is a tax hike. Will the guy who makes 90 large a year get higher SS benefits than the guy who makes 45 large per year?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:17 pm
A better question is why would a very wealthy person pay 1/10th of a percent of their wages in SS, whereas a poor struggling person should pay more than 7% for their SSI/Medicare? Why should a company pay less percentage of withholding on wages for wealthy, than for the working middle class?
You’re an idiot by the way.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:22 pmI already asked - are you a NATIVE AMERICAN, you refused to acknowledge that you are - because you aren’t. Therefore you’re just another ILLEGAL ALIEN in the land of NATIVE AMERICANS. Stupid moron.
Two things wrong with your assertion:
1) The racism claims were made without any prior attempt to discern my race or ethnicity which means they were meant as insults without any basis in fact, merely overwrought conjecture.
2) If I WAS a native American, would I have the right to castigate illegal aliens? If so, why?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:22 pmBecause they’re heartless, racist, bigoted immoral dum basses.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
I may going out on a limb here, but I think you’re onto something here, republicans hate facts. You may have hit the proverbial nail on the head.
Comment by The Republic of Stupidity — November 27, 2007 @ 11:15 pm
True. However that’s what trolls are. I’m looking for causes. Let’s see…
Lead based candy? Repeated blows to the head? Superstition artificially elevated to reality? Home “schooling”?
There must be a cause and, one hopes, a remedy. Though it’s clearly too late for the “adult form troll”.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:25 pmComment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
A better question is why shouldn’t the wealthy pay all of the bill while the less wealthy pay nothing?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:27 pmComment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
Silly Leftist. Don’t you know you’re supposed to evade taxes so you can invest in “the market”? Why, you’re proposing, gasp, Socialism.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:29 pmThat study is such a lie. I am a progressive but I work in an Emergency Department. What a crock. They are ALL illegal. They are a huge huge HUGE drain on medical resources.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:29 pmA better question is why shouldn’t the wealthy pay all of the bill while the less wealthy pay nothing?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:27 pm
A better question is why should the poor pay a higher percentage of their wages, than the wealthy? Your question is as stupid as you are, as it’s nothing but a PATENT LIE!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:30 pmWhy should the person that spends 90k a year pay more sales tax than the guy that spends 40k a year? You really are a complete moron.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:19 pm
The truth is that the replublscum feel that they should not pay any taxes because “They” generate all the jobs and “them” people should pay the taxes. “They” Will not admit this except among themselves. To debate them on taxes is a lost cause because “They” lie. They hate FDR and want to reverse all he did. This is the truth, plain and simple.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:31 pmTwo things wrong with your assertion:
1) The racism claims were made without any prior attempt to discern my race or ethnicity which means they were meant as insults without any basis in fact, merely overwrought conjecture.
2) If I WAS a native American, would I have the right to castigate illegal aliens? If so, why?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
It doesn’t really matter whether you’re native or not, because you claim that NATIVE AMERICANS from Mexico can’t come here because it’s ILLEGAL! And that’s about as STUPID as you CLEARLY ARE!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:31 pmWhy should the person that spends 90k a year pay more sales tax than the guy that spends 40k a year? You really are a complete moron.
Because the guy who spends 90 large will actually get something more for what he spends; 90k worth of toothpicks or DVD’s or sunglasses (assuming they both buy the same brands) will provide more of what they paid for than will 45k.
You do understand that, dont’ you?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pmFor once, I think I somewhat agree with Lefty. It doesn’t make much sense to me that I only pay SS taxes for about 2/3 of the year. Although in most cases I wouldn’t want my taxes raised, when it comes to SS taxes, I wouldn’t mind having it withheld for the whole year. Raise the income cap. Fine with me.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 11:22 pm
For once you said something that wasn’t completely hateful, selfish, stupid and ‘tarded. Although the idea that you’d make 200k a year is as RIDICULOUS as your posts normally are! You’re WAY TOO STUPID to EARN that much money!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:32 pmWhy should the system punish the wealthy for being wealthy?
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
Why should the system punish the poor for being poor, by making them pay a higher percentage than the rich?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:33 pmBecause the guy who spends 90 large will actually get something more for what he spends; 90k worth of toothpicks or DVD’s or sunglasses (assuming they both buy the same brands) will provide more of what they paid for than will 45k.
You do understand that, dont’ you?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:32 pm
You’re so freaking stupid, you didn’t even understand what I wrote there!! BAHAHA, the REALITY is that they both pay the SAME PERCENT OF SALES TAX unlike SSI which lowers the percentage paid by the weathy! That was the point, and thanks for proving that YOU ARE AN IDIOT, and that you’re SO STUPID you ARGUED AGAINST YOUR OWN ARGUMENT!!!
ROTFL!!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:34 pmThe truth is that the replublscum feel that they should not pay any taxes because “They†generate all the jobs and “them†people should pay the taxes. “They†Will not admit this except among themselves. To debate them on taxes is a lost cause because “They†lie. They hate FDR and want to reverse all he did. This is the truth, plain and simple.
Comment by Joefriday — November 27, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
MOST new jobs are generated by the middle class doing entrepreneurial activities - they aren’t created by the rich.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:35 pmThat study is such a lie. I am a progressive but I work in an Emergency Department. What a crock. They are ALL illegal. They are a huge huge HUGE drain on medical resources.
Comment by rf7777 — November 27, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
BAHAHAHA, a Republican refuting a SCIENTIFIC STUDY with an UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR!! Yep, that’s what we’ve come to expect from you morons! IGNORE THE FACTS, and substitute your own IGNORANT OPINIONS!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:36 pmIt doesn’t really matter whether you’re native or not, because you claim that NATIVE AMERICANS from Mexico can’t come here because it’s ILLEGAL! And that’s about as STUPID as you CLEARLY ARE!
Yes I am saying that because it is the law of our country whether you like the current situation or not. Now I know you have some sort of feeble notion about events that occurred long ago and that the world should engage in massive demographic shifts, but that just isn’t sensible. Turning back the clock isn’t an option, I’m afraid.
I have a feeling that the entire world deciding to move back to Africa (where we ALL originated) might not sit well with the people who are living there now, should we follow your logic and try it anyway?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:37 pmMOST new jobs are generated by the middle class doing entrepreneurial activities - they aren’t created by the rich.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
I know-I was stating what “They” believe.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:38 pmI am a progressive but I work in an Emergency Department. What a crock. They are ALL illegal. They are a huge huge HUGE drain on medical resources.
Comment by rf7777 — November 27, 2007 @ 11:29 pm
Just out of curiosity, what’s an “Emergency DEPARTMENT”?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:41 pmYou’re so freaking stupid, you didn’t even understand what I wrote there!! BAHAHA, the REALITY is that they both pay the SAME PERCENT OF SALES TAX unlike SSI which lowers the percentage paid by the weathy!
You missed it again, not surprising. If I pay more sales tax it means I am receiving more goods for my money. Paying a larger SS tax will not provide me a larger amount of SS benefits. Shall we move on now or do you wish to smash your caps key a few more times?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:43 pmTroll spotting 101.
If a post begins, “I’m a progressive but…” you found yourself a troll. Stomp at will but, wipe your feet before you come inside.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:47 pmI’m thankful I’m old enough to receive Social Security now. You young folks? Good luck. There’s lots of greedy people (of all political persuasions) who want to “manage” your investment.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:49 pm“…Despite common perceptions that high rates of uninsured and immigrant residents contribute to higher ED use, communities with the highest levels of ED use generally did not have the highest numbers of uninsured, low-income, racial/ethnic minorities or immigrant residents. For example, Cleveland—where ED use was high—had low rates of uninsured and noncitizen residents, with 7.9 percent uninsured and 3.2 percent noncitizens. In contrast, Orange County—where ED use was low-had high rates of uninsured and immigrant residents, with 18.2 percent uninsured and 15.6 percent noncitizens.
… study author Peter J. Cunningham, a senior fellow at HSC, a nonpartisan policy research organization funded principally by The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF). The study was funded by the WellPoint Foundation with support from RWJF.
Cunningham also noted that while a rapid influx of immigrants may contribute to ED crowding in some individual hospitals—particularly along the U.S.-Mexico border—immigration is not a major contributing factor to ED crowding nationally, even in many communities that have a large population of Hispanic immigrants. …”
http://www.hschange.com/CONTENT/861/
November 27th, 2007 at 11:54 pmYou missed it again, not surprising. If I pay more sales tax it means I am receiving more goods for my money. Paying a larger SS tax will not provide me a larger amount of SS benefits. Shall we move on now or do you wish to smash your caps key a few more times?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:43 pm
You missed it again, not surprising. If you earn more money, then you’re receiving more money that’s TAXED LESS than what a poor person’s money is taxed! Your BENEFIT is MORE SALARY, yet it comes with LESS TAXES that people that are TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET are being taxed. Shall you STFU, since it’s obvious you CAN’T READ ENGLISH? Are you sure YOU aren’t an illegal, because your english comprehension means you’re either a moron or having translation issues!!!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:56 pmSo if I come into your house illegally and use your food, clothing and medicine without paying for them, but use less than you do, I am not a burden?
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007
As if putting you in jail is cheap. =_)
November 27th, 2007 at 11:56 pmYour poor math skills might help explain your position in life. Paying SS taxes for 2/3 of a year at the current cap does not mean I make 200k a year. I make a good living, but am not yet at 200K.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 27, 2007 @ 11:41 pm
You making 6 figures is an HYSTERICAL CLAIM!!! You’re ‘tarded, what is it CHARITABLE DONATIONS?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:57 pmYes I am saying that because it is the law of our country whether you like the current situation or not. Now I know you have some sort of feeble notion about events that occurred long ago and that the world should engage in massive demographic shifts, but that just isn’t sensible. Turning back the clock isn’t an option, I’m afraid.
I have a feeling that the entire world deciding to move back to Africa (where we ALL originated) might not sit well with the people who are living there now, should we follow your logic and try it anyway?
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
So then you’re saying that the LAW is ARBITRARY and not based on REASON or JUSTICE? Well that explains why you REPUBLICANS BREAK IT SO OFTEN!! ROTFL!!!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:58 pmTurning back the clock isn’t an option, I’m afraid. Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
Perhaps you should tell Israel, because that’s exactly what they did.
Or is your belief that RIGHT MAKES RIGHT? So does that mean if China OVERWHELMS the US, then we’re all CHINESE CITIZENS and it’s TOO LATE TO TURN THE CLOCK BACK?
You people really are born brain damaged, aren’t you son?
November 27th, 2007 at 11:59 pmTurning back the clock isn’t an option, I’m afraid. Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 11:37 pm
I’m sure the slave owners during the civil war used this same argument to justify their bigotry. You’re a moron.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:00 amIf you earn more money, then you’re receiving more money that’s TAXED LESS than what a poor person’s money is taxed! Your BENEFIT is MORE SALARY, yet it comes with LESS TAXES that people that are TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET are being taxed.
“More salary” isn’t a benefit provided by the government.
If you understood economics beyond the level of “tax the rich until they bleed” then you would understand that it is a bit more complex than that and you can only tax someone up to 100% of their income, which will of course have adverse effects on the economy in other sectors.
Really, this hive mentality you are showcasing is starting to get creepy.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:04 amThe right-wing propaganda machine likes to put out these fear-mongering email memes that are basically fiction. The best ones (for right-wing political purposes) combine two hot-button issues such as this one on immigration and health care and attempt to portray the reader as the victim on both.
One of the commentors above clearly bought into one they put out last year, immigration and social security being the phony two-for-the-price-of-one issue on that one. That one is debunked here:
http://www.factcheck.org/article447.html
November 28th, 2007 at 12:08 amComment by republicans hate facts — November 27, 2007 @ 11:59 pm
If that were the case five hundred years from now then I suppose it just might, though we would have to wait five hundred years to find out.
You could try to be a realist about the situation though that would mean not getting to beat the stuffing out of your shift key. Tough choice, in your case at least.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:08 amIf you understood economics beyond the level of “tax the rich until they bleedâ€
Except thats not the problem. Rich often create money from nothing, which not only increases inflation its often created thru usury. Money creating money from nothing and should be taxed at the same or higher rate than someone who does actual physical labor. Labor creates honest [non-usury] money.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:10 amI’m sure the slave owners during the civil war used this same argument to justify their bigotry. You’re a moron.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 28, 2007 @ 12:00 am
Spell check before you post. Please.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:11 amComment by Xisithrus — November 28, 2007 @ 12:10 am
So we need to create two classes of rich, those who “create it from nothing” and those who do actual physical labor?
What if a guy does “honest” labor to earn a lot of money and then uses that money to create more money from nothing while still maintaining his position as a laborer? What class is he in? What constitutes actual physical labor, does the guy only holding the stud the same as the guy swinging the hammer?
What if the rich agree not to loan anyone their money, is the credit system to be abolished? Talk about a housing market slump.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:17 amI need to point out that I am a Democrat.
All the name calling are arguements based on emotions without looking at the facts.
Illegal is illegal.
You should be demanding that the corporations be creating and paying real wages in Central America. Then the illegals can stay in their country.
Employers exploit the status of being illegal and offer low wages to them.
Landlord empower the illegals and the employers rape of the illegals by letting the illegals overcrowd properities.
This racketteering by the landlords and corporations is mean to subpress all Amercian workers’ wages. They are winning because you do not understand the ultimate outcome of this process. It is the destruction of the American working class. The only people who with have rights in the future will be corporations and the super super-rich (not the rich).
In the next recession the American workers will not be able to get those entery level jobs or low pay jobs. No those jobs will be going to the illegals who can and will continue to work for 1/10 or 1/20 of the wages the Amercian workers need to pay the bills.
How many homeless Americans will it take before you understand that the illegals are a very real threat to the American way of life.
Your kids will not be able to enjoy the same life as you now have.
Things are going to get much worse and you think ideals are better than defending the Constitution and America.
I am an American and a member of the Democratic Party, in that order.
The GOPers are GOP first, godless bible thumping criminals, and the last thing they value is being an American.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:17 amIf that were the case five hundred years from now then I suppose it just might, though we would have to wait five hundred years to find out.
You could try to be a realist about the situation though that would mean not getting to beat the stuffing out of your shift key. Tough choice, in your case at least.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 28, 2007 @ 12:08 am
The Jews waited 2000 years for Israel, and supporting their right to retake the country of Israel is fundamental international foreign policy. You could be a realist, and realize that millions of illegal immigrants are here because they do jobs, and are because companies and individuals WANT them here as well. The thing that’s TOUGH is trying to have a rational discussion with a complete moron like you.
Spell check before you post. Please.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 28, 2007 @ 12:11 am
There was no misspelling. Do yourself a favor, and don’t post - moron.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:17 amSo we need to create two classes of rich, those who “create it from nothing†and those who do actual physical labor?
What if a guy does “honest†labor to earn a lot of money and then uses that money to create more money from nothing while still maintaining his position as a laborer? What class is he in? What constitutes actual physical labor, does the guy only holding the stud the same as the guy swinging the hammer?
What if the rich agree not to loan anyone their money, is the credit system to be abolished? Talk about a housing market slump.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 28, 2007 @ 12:17 am
Then you do what FDR threatened to do, and seize their assets. It worked.
A better question is why do you PENALIZE those that work, by making them pay HIGHER TAXES than rich people?
Moron.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:19 amcorrected spelling:
Then the illegals can stay in their country.
Employers exploit the status of being illegal and offer low wages to them.
Landlord empower the illegals and the employers rape of the illegals by letting the illegals overcrowd properties.
This racketeering by the landlords and corporations is mean to suppress all American workers’ wages. They are winning because you do not understand the ultimate outcome of this process. It is the destruction of the American working class. The only people who with have rights in the future will be corporations and the super super-rich (not the rich).
In the next recession the American workers will not be able to get those entry level jobs or low pay jobs. No those jobs will be going to the illegals who can and will continue to work for 1/10 or 1/20 of the wages the American workers need to pay the bills.
How many homeless Americans will it take before you understand that the illegals are a very real threat to the American way of life.
Your kids will not be able to enjoy the same life as you now have.
Things are going to get much worse and you think ideals are better than defending the Constitution and America.
I am an American and a member of the Democratic Party, in that order.
The GOPers are GOP first, godless bible thumping criminals, and the last thing they value is being an American.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:22 amThe Jews waited 2000 years for Israel, and supporting their right to retake the country of Israel is fundamental international foreign policy.
The last time I checked, Israel wasn’t part of the United States, I don’t give a fig what happens to them.
You could be a realist, and realize that millions of illegal immigrants are here because they do jobs, and are because companies and individuals WANT them here as well.
It doesn’t make them any less illegal and we are either a nation of laws or we are not; picking and choosing the laws to suit your political mindset does not a stable nation make.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:25 amWho mainly profits form wars Cake Inc? You say you make less than 200k a year which puts you well below the 1% class tax cuts, and therefore this war did not line your pockets nor did the tax cuts make
much difference.
The price of gas has tripled while your 200k a year has been lowered by 40% in real value.
Guess what? Your tax cut will NEVER make up for the tax cut because of the devalued dollar.
Heckuva Deal eh?
November 28th, 2007 at 12:28 amA better question is why do you PENALIZE those that work, by making them pay HIGHER TAXES than rich people?
You must be reading the Cimmerian tax code or something.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:28 amComment by Xisithrus — November 28, 2007 @ 12:28 am
What the flock are you talking about? I didn’t say I made 200 large a year or less than that or anything else about my income. ? ?
As to the devalued dollar, you need to accept the fact that such occurrences are not out of the ordinary and are due to more than Bush being in office. Relax about the currency, friend, these fluctuations are normal and will be easily weathered.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:35 amI apologize, i mistook Cold hard lefts 200k for you. Nevertheless my argument stands, anyone in the 99% class hasnt really gained anything thru this tax shift due to the devaluation of the dollar.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:40 amThe last time I checked, Israel wasn’t part of the United States, I don’t give a fig what happens to them. Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 28, 2007 @ 12:25 am
So then you disagree with the WHOLE GOP values? Interesting.
It doesn’t make them any less illegal and we are either a nation of laws or we are not; picking and choosing the laws to suit your political mindset does not a stable nation make. Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 28, 2007 @ 12:25 am
Legal by what definition? You’re