Time’s false balancing act.
Time’s false balancing act.
Earlier this week, Time magazine’s Joe Klein asserted that Democrats wanted to reform FISA in a way that “would give terrorists the same legal protections as Americans.” After Glenn Greenwald noted the false accusations made by Klein, Time has finally posted a “correction”:
In the original version of this story, Joe Klein wrote that the House Democratic version of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) would allow a court review of individual foreign surveillance targets. Republicans believe the bill can be interpreted that way, but Democrats don’t.
Time has helpfully informed us that Democrats don’t agree with Republicans that their bill is providing terrorists equal rights as Americans. Jane Hamsher writes, “Shorter Time Magazine: Equal Time For GOP Propaganda.” Glenn Greenwald writes, “All Time can say about this matter is that Republicans say one thing and Democrats claim another. Who is right? Is one side lying? … Here, there are not two sides; the bill could not be clearer.” Kos points to the relevant text of the Restore Act:
‘CLARIFICATION OF ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE OF NON-UNITED STATES PERSONS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES’
Sec. 105A. (a) Foreign to Foreign Communications-(1) IN GENERAL - Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, a court order is not required for electronic surveillance directed at the acquisition of the contents of any communication between persons that are not known to be United States persons and are reasonably believed to be located outside the United States for the purpose of collecting foreign intelligence information, without respect to whether the communication passes through the United States or the surveillance device is located within the United States.
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Look up Operation Mockingbird. Joe Klein is just another propoganda puppet in the 2007 version of Operation Mockingbird. Time Magazine has been compromised. Put them on the list (long list) of media sources that can no longer be trusted.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:13 pmAfter the GOP Officially Gave Itself Over to Evil, they nominated Joe Klein to be their poet laureate.
Seriously, how come there are hundreds, if not thousands of competent but ignored bloggers out there (and I count myself among them) who generally get their facts straight, write competently well if not brilliantly and have a passion for the truth while clowns like Joe Klein have these sweet gigs writing for places like Time?
For every Markos Moulitsas and Ana Marie Cox who get hired by the MSM, there literally tens of thousands of us who go unheard, even thugh we speak the truth, get the facts straight and write tolerably well.
When I see Klein featured on Time day after day, a few more irreplaceable brain cells and bits of my heart turn necrotic and die.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:14 pmWho is lying? More evidence that our 2 party system is totally broken.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:18 pmTime hires the worst writers in journalism. First it was Karen Tumulty’s “Earthtone Al Gore invented the Internet” clowning, and then the Curveball circle-jerk of its military/administration reporters, and now Joe Klein gets punked repeatedly for his FISA ignorance.
The worst.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:20 pmi finished my business with TIME when coulter made the cover…
was assured i made the correct decision when dubya was named
“person of the year” the 2nd time…
an unfortunate decline of a once reliable source of good information…
November 27th, 2007 at 8:22 pm.
Sounds to me like a lot of posturing is occurring in the halls of power; pubs say this, dems say that and the message is lost in the legalese.
“any communication between persons that are not known to be United States persons and are reasonably believed to be located outside the United States”
United States persons? Does this mean “citizen” or not, and what is the definition of “reasonably”?
November 27th, 2007 at 8:26 pmTime magazine is a business that is losing readers. The same goes for our national newspapers that we used to trust like the Post and Times. As they fight for their lives, they need to appeal to many constituencies, and will try to present both sides of an issue, however one-sided an issue may be. It is sad, but as long as they have some readers, we have to speak up like is being done now. At least they do respond, however weakly. Ten years ago there would have been no response.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pman unfortunate decline of a once reliable source of good information…
Comment by katy — November 27, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
You didn’t feel compelled to finish your business with ‘TIME’ after they blackened O.J’s face?
November 27th, 2007 at 8:30 pm/sarcasm
Wow! Joe Klein and Time lying their a$$es off? And sucking up to RePugniScums? And phu(king the average American into the ground? I’m SHOCKED!!! Just SHOCKED I TELL YOU!!!
/sarcasm off
To subscribe to Klein-Time call 1-800-OU-812!!! Joe Klein is waiting for your call now!. Don’t delay call now!! Little boys are welcome!!!
November 27th, 2007 at 8:35 pmWe now know that editors of Time magazine are not able to read words and understand their meanings. They need supporters of the parties to tell them what words stringed together mean. Always suspected that, but now we have dispositive proof.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:35 pmUnited States persons? Does this mean “citizen†or not, and what is the definition of “reasonably�
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 8:26 pm
Good point!. If a “person” (non citizen) is in the United States legally and then travels outside the USA are they protected and require a court order to intercept their communications outside the United States? Or should the law state “United States citizen” ?
November 27th, 2007 at 8:36 pmComment by Joefriday — November 27, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
And the intent is hidden by the words themselves. The dems get to crow that they didn’t allow Bush to spy on anyone and the pubs get to crow that they get to listen to anyone, with the language of the document providing enough wiggle room for everyone.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:40 pmI would say that Time lost it’s credibility around when they took on the “pictures and fluff” that disappeared with Life.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:54 pmWho is lying? More evidence that our 2 party system is totally broken.
The main stream media is party-less. It’s job is to do what ever the corporations tell them in order to confuse average Americans, obfuscating pretty much ever issue at hand: politics, war, and global warming to name a few. Since conservatives tend to put corporations first and people second, those are the strongest voices in both the MSM & the ‘government’.
As far as our system being broken, two things would go 80% of the way to cleaning the mess up. One is lobbying (Trent Lott anyone?). The other is we need to finance all national elections; no donations, no PACS, no money other than what we give them.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:06 pmAnd the intent is hidden by the words themselves. The dems get to crow that they didn’t allow Bush to spy on anyone and the pubs get to crow that they get to listen to anyone, with the language of the document providing enough wiggle room for everyone.
Comment by Cake Incorporated — November 27, 2007 @ 8:40 pm
Considering that only the GOP is WIGGLING TO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL, then you admit that the GOP TACTIC is to WIGGLE and LIE to BREAK THE LAW? Nice!
November 27th, 2007 at 9:19 pmWe need thousands of Greenwalds to keep up with them. Thank you Mr. Greenwald.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:57 pmBoy, with the Dems saying one thing and the GOP another, what we need is someone to pick out the details and just lay them out. You know, someone like the Fourth Estate!
November 27th, 2007 at 10:10 pmRead the words: “We the people have these inalienable rights” . . . these words were from Jefferson, he Adams, Franklin and a bunch of smart men and women crafted a country, based upon teachings about the fundamental rights of human beings, teachings of which date back to ancient Greece, Socrates and Plato, developed throughout the Middle Ages through such philosophers as Rhobespierre (Sp?)& Voltaire, and into the twentieth Century thru Dr. Seuss, Sesame (Sp?) Street & The Simpsons. The are fundamental ideals to which most Americans (knowingly or not) adhere.
“that are not known to be United States persons”
How the heck are they going to know who is “not known to be United States persons” when such persons are on the telephone or chatting on an e-mail?
Or, when such such forks “are reasonably believed to be” doing anything?
Every American has a Fifth Amendment right against the violation of your person without probable cause (Supreme Court doctrine since the foundation of this Country that the Supreme Court could possibly overturn), the Fourth Amendmant protects you againt searches and seizures and that includes searches and seizures (written in the Constitution, not so easily overturned) of your electronic communications.
How, without violating the Bill of Rights can Bush decide that, he can violate your rights by deciding that you are “located outside the United States for the purpose of collecting foreign intelligence information, without respect to whether the communication passes through the United States or the surveillance device is located within the United States.
Today, a lot of people are concerned about the rights of illegal aliens. Well, if they’re “illegal” they are “illegal” and have the inalienable rights of human beings of American citizens, but perhaps not the right to a presumption of innocence . . . if you’re here illegally . . . you have a right to be presumed to be here legally . . . but if you’re not . . . you have broken the law . . . stand in line. . . we all did . . . you must also.
and are reasonably believed to be located outside the United States for the purpose of collecting foreign intelligence information, without respect to whether the communication passes through the United States or the surveillance device is located within the United States.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:00 amWow,
Sometimes when you think of things too much, cut and I beleive tjat everu “illegal alien†is entitled to the inalienable right of human beings. Nonetheless, each American citizen works for and is entitled to the additional benefits for which they have worked . . those rights are earned by contributing taxes, social secutiry and their good works into the community. Those are not devine rights, but earned benefits. An illegal, by the very fact that they broke the law by entering this country illegally, is not entitled to the right to a presumption of innocence with regard to their certain activity (including criminal activity), voting activity, financial or fraud on American systems designed to protect the poor or to advanced the underfinanced or other culpable crimes - this is a policy that should be read and interpreted broadly - it is not intended to advocate a welfare system. An alien who applies, is sponsored and abides by the rules . . . no problem . . . (If you’ve got a problem with the term “alien”, look it up in the dictionary . . . not a space- being . . . a nonnative . . . I’ve been a nonnative in more than a dozen states and a couple of countries . . . get over it . . . it’s a fact, not an insult)
American policy should change . . . children born on American soil whose parents are illegals must be nationals of their parents’ or parent’s native country. They are not automatically American. Their parents must go home and take their babies with them. The fact that a person is here is illegally does in no way deprive that person of their fundamental human rights . . .those stated in the Bill of Rights . . .America must deprive noone of those rights. If we do, we have lost our way . . our right.
If my beliefs make me a troll, I must be one. . . .I am definitely not a republican, so must be a fringe libertarian-green. . . . seems like the whole problem today . . . some of us are just looking for a home. If we don’t agree with Bart, no room for discussion, just subject yourself to trash talk and you are a troll. Discussion . . . yeah, you talk about it.
No doubt, hate mail will reign. But dems must get a grip. Many of us feel this way. Abuse use and we’ll leave the party. You say, sad loss . . . it will be.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:28 amrockyroad, i agree that you don’t belong in the democratic party.
you disagree with the declaration of independence (”we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.”–note all men have those rights because they come from God, not all citizenship)
you disagree with the constitution (the 14th Amendment provides that no people, regardless of citizenship, can be denied “life, liberty, or property” without due process of law)
and, fyi, you seem a bit out of touch with reality (undocumented immigrants do pay taxes and do pay into social security, typically without the ability to receive any benefit from the latter, and neither of us have any basis to know who is more or less active in their community).
i don’t mean to be harsh, but democrats defend the principles of the bill of rights and constitution and the idea that we should base our policies on reality. if you’re not on board with those basic things, you’re free to disagree. but your position falls outside of what democrats believe, and unlike a lot of democrats in congress, real democrats would rather lose an election than compromise such fundamental principles.
November 28th, 2007 at 1:46 pmI have tried to contact John Conyers several times today to comment on his email regarding Joe Klein’s article on FISA, that is based on the lie that this would allow foreign terrorists to talk to each other freely.
Conyer’s general website is kicking me out several different ways, and looks like it’s not working, so I’ve been desperately trying to find another way to comment.
Even FISA was not a strong enough protection for the American people, since getting a warrant was about as easy as falling off a log. Therefore, I do not even think that the most current House legislation is strong enough. It should be as hard to get a FISA warrant as any crime warrant, and while we’re at it, that’s too easy also. Or else why would we have more people in jail and prison than any other country in the world?
December 5th, 2007 at 11:19 am