O’Reilly declares a ‘great victory’ in ‘War on Christmas.’
By on Nov 28th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
O’Reilly declares a ‘great victory’ in ‘War on Christmas.’
Earlier this month, ThinkProgress noted that Fox News host Bill O’Reilly had reignited his annual conniption fit over a perceived “War on Christmas,” taking aim at the Fort Collins, CO City Council’s consideration of a plan to eschew publicly-funded displays of traditional Christmas decorations. Last week, the council voted to continue using traditional decorations. Now O’Reilly is gloating, calling it “a great victory” in his War:
BILL O’REILLY: Also in Fort Collins, Colorado, the anti-Christmas task force, which recommended banning traditional decorations on public property has been rebuffed. The folks said no. …It’s a great victory.
Watch it:
[flv http://video.thinkprogress.org/2007/11/OReillyChristmasVictory.320.240.flv]
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Stop giving this guy air-time. Ignore him. Pretend he’s not there.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:15 pmDoes this mean Bill O’Reilly is going to do a USO Tour and visit the Christian Soldiers in Fort Collins now??
Maybe he’ll bring Dr. Laura along. I hear she’s been anxious to get a free USO vacation too…
November 28th, 2007 at 2:16 pmSo does this mean Mr. Henkie is free to smear his Christmas poo on
November 28th, 2007 at 2:17 pmpoorly drawn cartoon characters again? Hideeho!
I am so glad this gets covered. I mean it is nice that someone can finally report on what is important and take some focus away from the TWO ACTUAL WARS going on.
I mean with Christmas nearing extinction, it is good someone will take up the cause. Who cares that disabled Iraq Veterans are waiting 6+ months before getting their benefits when someone is trying to exterminate Christmas!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:17 pmIf O’Reilly is reporting on a war on Christmas, and the town voted against banning traditional displays, wouldn’t it be a great defeat in the war as opposed to a victory?
November 28th, 2007 at 2:18 pmOhhhhhh, crap.
Billo’s been hitting the cooking sherry again.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:20 pmI just feel sorry for this guy.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:21 pmmaybe there declaring victory cause the troops have to leave 31st dec 07
November 28th, 2007 at 2:21 pmWe should be grateful that O’Reilly concentrates on non issues like this rather than focusing all that stupid on important issues. The country is in enough trouble without him messing it up any more.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:21 pmHmmm… reading about this it seems that the City Council was not voting to ‘exclude’ Christmas, but to ‘include’ other religious observances and symbols (such as a menorah) along with the more Christian Symbols.
Why does Bill O’Reilly hate Americans?
November 28th, 2007 at 2:25 pmIf O’Reilly is reporting on a war on Christmas, and the town voted against banning traditional displays, wouldn’t it be a great defeat in the war as opposed to a victory?
Comment by Squegeeboo — November 28, 2007 @ 2:18 pm
What Bill seems to ignore is that the council also voted for an all-faith holiday display that will include a nativity scene, a Wiccan yule log, a Menorah, a Baha’i 9-point star, and holiday symbols eight other feiths. So it’s also a victory in the War on Solstice and the War on Hannukah and the War on Diwaniya and others.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:26 pmStop giving this guy air-time. Ignore him. Pretend he’s not there.
Comment by Rowdy — November 28, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
But but but then we’d have nobody to make fun of. :(
November 28th, 2007 at 2:26 pmOkay, I realize Bill-O is a moron, but what about the underlying topic here. I mean, isn’t it pretty ridiculous for the ACLU to try to ban Christmas decorations??
It is stupid for Bill-O to claim a victory in his pretend war, but its also pretty stupid to try to ban Christmas decorations.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:27 pmGawd. These people are just so damned ….embarrassing!!!!
Pass me my Unknown American bag, wouldja? Sheesh.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:28 pmI can’t decide what’s phonier, the “War on Christmas” or “Islamofascism”.
Hmmm….
November 28th, 2007 at 2:28 pmBill O. is a pathetic, sad little man with millions of dollars and not a single friend in the world. When his reign of terror ends along with Bush’s, he will be forgotten. And that will be his comeuppance for the damage he helped Bush do to this country. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if we read one day that he’s committed suicide.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:31 pmI celebrate Christmas in the grand American tradition of having absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. I revel in the fact that I celebrate only secular aspects of the holiday. Crass commercialization, false idols, pagan rituals, bring it on!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:32 pmI lost good friends in the War on Diwaniya.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:33 pmKnucklehead Bill-O is just getting nauseating. Bill-O has no new material called “the news” so he has to rehash his crapola spin on the War on Christmas.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:34 pmI read both of the articles linked from this story – and I have to say that someone ought to have a little chat with that woman who opined that including symbols of other winter celebrations was “political correctness run amuck.”
Evidently that genius doesn’t get that without all those symbols of other winter celebrations that we include in our current Christmas tradition, well, there wouldn’t be much left over for all that decoratin’.
Sheesh.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:36 pmDoes this mean he’ll shut up about the whole “War on Christmas” early and give us a break?
November 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pmHas anyone noticed the Christmas War starts earlier every year? This year it started so early, hardly anyone even noticed the fanatical evangelical Christian’s War on Halloween.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:39 pmDoes this mean he’ll shut up about the whole “War on Christmas†early and give us a break?
Comment by hellinabucket
No! Not until there is a plastic baby Jesus on every lawn of every public building in the country!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:40 pmConservative parents blew a great opportunity NOT to buy their kids presents. Just tell them, “I wanted to buy you a bike and a PlayStation 3 and everything you ever wanted, but the liberals cancelled Christmas. Sorry.”
November 28th, 2007 at 2:41 pmDoes the term “War is Hell” apply here. And if it does, isn’t that a sin? Daryll?
November 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmWe should declare a War on STUPID, but when you win Bill 0-IQ will be just as stupid along with the rest of the neanderturd 24%ers. You just can’t fix stupid.
I’m an atheist but every year I decorate the house with Christmas stuff, this year my wife says she is gonna do it…which means…no decorations at all. 8-(
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
November 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pmAw, let him have his victory.
Myself, I’m celebrating a HUGE victory today over the successful elimination of flying elephants.
For over two weeks, there hasn’t been a flying elephant around here.
VICTORY!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pmComment by skippy20007 — November 28, 2007 @ 2:41 pm
That will be a better story than to have to tell them that all the things they wanted were recalled for safety reasons!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pmLOVE the Christmas lights over the American flag! ‘Cause Jesus wuz from the good ol’ US of A!
November 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pmFight the REAL enemy, Bill — the economy is detonating like a crazed jihadi right in the middle of Christmas and you don’t seem to notice.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:55 pmStop giving this guy air-time. Ignore him. Pretend he’s not there.
Comment by Rowdy — November 28, 2007 @ 2:15 pm
But but but then we’d have nobody to make fun of. :(
Comment by toasterhead — November 28, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
Don’t be such a gloomy gus, TH. We’ll always have Southern Man, TCDon, Mr. Pee’s Troll Name du jour…
November 28th, 2007 at 2:56 pmthe only thing missing is a banner behind the dipshit declaring “Mission Accomplished”
screw christmas!
November 28th, 2007 at 3:04 pm33 – Heheheh, Ralph! True, so true. Hmmmm. Haven’t seen the TamponDon lately – which is a good thing. ;o)
November 28th, 2007 at 3:05 pmWell good for him, maybe now he’ll shut up about it.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:05 pmApparently this “war” is only on Bill-o’s radar. The rest of us couldn’t really give a flip over whether Fort Collins chooses white lights or colored ones.
So now that victory has been declared, what’s his next non-issue going to be?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:08 pmWith the holidays upon us, I’ve been reminiscing about TP threads past, about TP trolls past.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:08 pmDoes anyone here remember I_RIGHT_I?
Any holiday, person, place, loofa, and anything else Bill-O vouches for should be thoroughly investigated by the Congress. Perhaps it’s not good for America after all.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:09 pmAh the trolls of christmas past. IRI had a flare to incite. And who could forget about Mighty Aphrodite?
Joe Sixpack is a progressive poster that I miss.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:12 pmSo now that victory has been declared, what’s his next non-issue going to be?
Comment by missmolly
Well, Reagan said trees cause pollution. Maybe he could start a War on Arbor Day.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:13 pmOf course, Bildo’s declaration of victory in the War on Christmas leads to the question: is it time to pull our troops out?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:14 pmOur great lobbyist, Bildo Reilly. Stephen Covey would shake in his boots if Bill released the book, “The Seven Habits of Lockstep 24%-ers.”
November 28th, 2007 at 3:14 pmhellina, I miss unbelievable most of all…
November 28th, 2007 at 3:17 pmit was a sad day when she left.
I am so glad we are free to, as George Carlin put it, “Sacrifice a tree to Jesus”. All the pretty lights are just a bonus.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:19 pmBilly Hill! Billy Hill! Billy Hill!!!
November 28th, 2007 at 3:20 pmFox, O’Reilly and Gibson found them a story to tell at the end of every year called ‘ War on Christmas’.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:20 pmInstead of talking about the real war in Iraq or Afghanstan…they chose,instead to tackle a non-existing ‘War of Christmas’ in America.
Billy Hill
November 28th, 2007 at 3:21 pmHe also ends sentences with prepositions!
That is something up with which I can not put!
I think he uses children to satisfy his preverted desires, he uses women to profit from…
Comment by Billy Hill
November 28th, 2007 at 3:26 pmMerry Christmas to ya’ all!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
You’re such a liar. Target was never prevented from putting up a Merry Christmas banner. You and the truth are absolute, lifelong strangers.
I hope you get the flu for Christmas, you sick piece of shit.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:31 pmThankfully, all the foolish anti-Christmas bullcrap hasn’t come to northwestern New Mexico. The city-sponsored Christmas decor is already gracing our local streets. And in the local schools, they still allow the religious themed Christmas songs to be sung during the Christmas plays…religious inspired verses intact.
Merry Christmas to ya’ all!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:22 pm
that’s nice. but you don’t have loofahs and falafel hanging from yours christmas trees like billy does, do you? because, unless you do, it’s obvious that your community in nw new mexico hates baby jesus.
eh?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:31 pm“And in the local schools, they still allow the religious themed Christmas songs to be sung during the Christmas plays…religious inspired verses intact.”
Showing no respect for the Constitution or America, no wonder you cheer them on, being an america-hater born and bred. Traitor.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:32 pmNo loss for progressives. Just a fabricated “War” with meaningless victories. The truth is religion is best when it comes from within and not dictated by the decorations seen on the side of the road. All my readings of the Bible lead me to believe that christ himself wouldn’t care for the celebration when he looked at the other 363 (sometimes 364) days of the year.
Mr. O. Bigfoot, I do wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. I also wish you to be more understanding of the falsehoods that have kept you behind a president and administration that does not have America’s best interests at hear.
No loss that B.O. claims victory. It’s only in his head.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:33 pmIt looks like it’s time to get the ACLU into new Mexico, to prevent the crazed Christianists from forcing their superstitions down poor children’s throats.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:33 pmI see our local Target store has a big “Merry Christmas†banner over their entryway this year. It’s about 10 feet wide….last year they weren’t allowed to put one up. Guess the people have spoken there also.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
Wow! Last year Target wasn’t allowed to put up a “Merry Christmas” banner?!?! Who stopped them? Do you have names? Do you know where these people live? We should call the police!
November 28th, 2007 at 3:34 pmIt must really suck to be a conservative these days. It’s so bad, it seems, that they have to convince themselves that progressives are anti-Christmas and then they congratulate themselves as if they’ve won some kind of victory when someone puts up Christmas lights.
Kinda pathetic.
Oh well, after their domestic policies have wrecked the middle class and tanked the economy, and their foreign policies have entangled our military in the middle of a civil war, while their party is imploding under the weight of mass corruption, obstructionsim and incompetence, I guess they don’t have a lot else to look forward to.
Let’s let them believe that they’ve struck some mighty blow against the forces of “darkness”. If you look at them like they’re characters in a sitcom, then they become funny, not sad.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:35 pmYou’re such a liar. Target was never prevented from putting up a Merry Christmas banner. You and the truth are absolute, lifelong strangers.
I hope you get the flu for Christmas, you sick piece of shit.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
i think o. biggie’s right. target did declare war on christmas last year. and i don’t care how many signs or banners they put up, i’m not gonna shop at a store that’s run by christ haters!
right biggie?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:35 pmYou’d better do a little research before spouting off, LP. Lest you look ignorant.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
biggie’s right! getcha yer self some loofahs and falafel… start celebrating christmas right!
November 28th, 2007 at 3:37 pm“It is a great victory for traditional America”
Edit and/or real meaning:
“It is a great victory for white male-dominated unimaginative Christian hidebound unfocused overweight tv-watching money-worshiping traditional America …”
Not to mention a great victory for O. Bigfoot because it lets him come on here, fart out a gleeful little corporate chuckle in between bites of his Little Debbie snack cake, and feel all warm and smug in his bed.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:38 pmMy wife worked at Target and they were given “Happy Holiday†banners to put up, and were directed to utter nothing but “Happy Holidays†during the Christmas season. No reference to any holiday of “religious signifigance†was allowed.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
biggie… your wife took money from the christ haters at target?!
and what she doing working outside of the home?… can’t you take care of her?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:40 pmSorry LP, the Constitution is a religiously inspired document, based on divine principles. Until you accept that, you can never be correct in your references to it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
O. Bigmouth shows precious little understanding of the nature of the Constitution, or the process that developed the document, or the gentlemen responsible.
But that should come as no surprise to anyone who’s familiar with O. Biggie’s work.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:41 pmSorry LP, the Constitution is a religiously inspired document, based on divine principles. Until you accept that, you can never be correct in your references to it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
yep, by the order of the free masons.
brother biggie what lodge do you hail from?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:42 pmSorry, LP, you’re wrong again. My wife worked at Target and they were given “Happy Holiday†banners to put up, and were directed to utter nothing but “Happy Holidays†during the Christmas season. No reference to any holiday of “religious signifigance†was allowed.
You’d better do a little research before spouting off, LP. Lest you look ignorant.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
And who “directed [Target] to utter nothing but ‘Happy Holidays’ during the Christmas season”? That’s not right! We need to get to the bottom of these threats against Target! Please, if you have any information on the dastardly villians who stopped Target from putting up items of “religious signifigance†call your local law enforcement immediately. These ne’er-do-wells must be apprehended.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:42 pmAmerican Family Association campaign buttons and magnets:
“Merry Christmas. God’s Good News!”
November 28th, 2007 at 3:44 pmSorry LP, the Constitution is a religiously inspired document, based on divine principles. Until you accept that, you can never be correct in your references to it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
You take great pleasure in being wrong 100% of the time, don’t you? You should have paid attention is school.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:44 pmProgressives win! F_ck Bill and Happy Holidays!
November 28th, 2007 at 3:45 pmAnd you have something against women having meaningful jobs, or equal rights for women? I guess you’re merely a “faux progressiveâ€, eh joe?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
and you’re a “faux American”, you’ve proven that pretty clearly.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:46 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:42 pm
yes but our lord was scourged by the romans… and yet you take money from them!
eternal damnation haunts you, your decorated delivery trucks cannot save your immortal soul … how do you sleep at night?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pmO. Bigmouth also shows no ability to perceive sarcasm.
Not a good day for O’Biggie.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:47 pmComment by Lefty Patriot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:44 pm
State some facts so you can put the troll in his place.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:49 pmAnd you have something against women having meaningful jobs, or equal rights for women? I guess you’re merely a “faux progressiveâ€, eh joe?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:45 pm
diverting attention away from you shunning of traditional american values will not save you.
you either love america… or you piss on it!
put that in your pipe and smoke it!
btw, my tree is decorated with loofahs and falafel… is yours, biggie?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:50 pmAnd let’s have a round of applause for Bigtool once again missing the point. And that is Biggoof that nobody is against anybody celebrating Christmas. Some people would just like other holidays to also be celebrated. But you wouldn’t understand, you never do.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:51 pm#58 so a CORPORATE or MANAGEMENT decision on a banner and a greeting is your basis for saying they were prevented or not allowed to say merry Christmas or whatever is your basis? Wow, do you work for BillO because your logic makes no sense. Also why didn’t your wife quit the Christ hating corporate entity known as Target? Why did and does she continue to support an organization that obviously is at odds with your personal beliefs? It’s not like a job at Target would be hard to replace I mean there is always Wal Mart, K Mart or other large retailers out there.
#62 obviously you have no clue as to how the constitution or declaration of independence came about. Perhaps it is time for you to re-visit your American history. Besides the establishment clause, where is there a religious reference in the constitution? From my understanding of American history, granted I went to College, a bastion of hateful liberalism, and I read books with reality based factual evidence in them, so I probably have not been educated in a conservative manner like you. Anyways from my understanding of American history the founders, or at least those who contributed heavily to the constitution and declaration where generally influenced by the French philosophers and the rights of man etc… These thoughts may also have religious parallels, but in general they were moving away from religion and religious based interference in government. You might want to read a few Bio’s like Franklins’, Jeffersons’, Hamiltons’, try Jeffersons’ bible and his comments on Christianity, also check out Madisons’ remonstrance…and follow those up with the federalist papers. It will really throw you for a loop. Me? Those readings simply reinforced what I had been taught all my life. You and your Christian Taliban are not what this country is all about regardless of what you might want to think and what you might want others to believe.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:52 pmVery well, thank you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
no, no i meant “how” as in “how does your conscious let you sleep?” biggie.
sorry about that.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:52 pmAttention in school? I went to school in Northern Idaho, where they still, at least then, taught the truth about U.S. history. Sorry, LP, but the ‘Progressive†agenda hasn’t touched the heart of this nation. That’s why when it’s brought to light, the “Progressive†agenda loses.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
oh yeah? what part of “northern idaho” may i ask?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:53 pmIf the Constitution is based on divine principles, why isn’t God (and I’m assuming the Protestant God here) mentioned in the document as being the source.
You’d think that if the Founders, if they were true Christians, that they would at least give a shout-out to the God in the Preamble. But no mention of Him anywhere as being the source of our country’s main document.
It’s kind of like how I had an argument with my mother-in-law about the divine inspiration in the Declaration of Independence. Her point was the two references of “nature’s god” (with ‘god’ in lower case)and “creator”, and how this was proof that the Founders were inspired by God. I said that if they intented to make a reference to God, then why didn’t they just include the word “God”? Were they afraid of offending non-Christians or something. She really couldn’t give me anything resembling a good reply.
My wife says I can’t debate her mom anymore because of that.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:54 pmNo reference to any holiday of “religious signifigance†was allowed.
You’d better do a little research before spouting off, LP. Lest you look ignorant.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:34 pm
Your wife? Nice anecdotal and incorrect information. The CEO wanted to be politically correct and issued the dictum. It had nothing to do with any orders from anybody outside the corporation, you idiot.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:54 pmIdaho is the heart of the Nation? I thought the midwest was and the north east was the birthplace of the nation. Did I miss something in the history books?
November 28th, 2007 at 3:57 pmWhich is exactly what I said, Shayne. Better do YOUR research before spouting off, lest you look like an ass.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
uh, oh… you know biggie’s losing it when he starts to curse.
btw, what’s wrong with the schools in southern idaho, biggie?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:00 pmFrom Mr. Bigfoot,
It’s a government sanctioned holiday commemorating the birth of Christ. I know you “Progressives†hate that, but too bad. Reality Bites, eh?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Not quite.
Today, most Americans blend religious and secular customs with their own family traditions. Thus, even though Christmas is for many Americans a religious occasion, the federal courts have upheld its status as a legal holiday. As one court reasoned, “by giving federal employees a paid vacation day on Christmas, the government is doing no more than recognizing the cultural significance of the holiday.â€
http://usinfo.state.gov/scv/Archive/2005/Dec/19-344398.html
November 28th, 2007 at 4:01 pmApparently you did. The heart of the nation is where real America lives, regardless of geography. That is why when ‘Progressive†agendas are spotlighted for what they are, they lose.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:58 pm
well, now that you’ve “spotlighted” it… what’s left for you to say?
or have you just “spotlighted” yourself?
biggie, your thoughts?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:02 pmIdaho? Isn’t that where the largest concentration of Neo Nazis are gathered?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:02 pm#90 apparently you don’t get out of idaho much. From where I live, not far from where the extremely linberal Abe Lincoln hails from, Idaho is viiewed as a haven for nut jobs who wish to hide from America and whhat the country really is. Take a month or so and read the stuff I suggested, I guarantee you it will not agree with your viiew of the world.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:03 pmCouldn’t tell you, joe. Never went to school in Southern Idaho.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:01 pm
you didn’t even give ‘em a look…?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:03 pmO. Bigtool is taking it on the chin again. All the mean progressives are ganging up on poor, Christ-like O. Bigfool.
Not a good day for O’Biggie.
Perhaps O. Bigtool should have armed himself with something more than wishful thinking and personal anecdotes. Maybe next time O. Bigfool will know better. Don’t bet on it, but maybe…
November 28th, 2007 at 4:03 pmSorry LP, the Constitution is a religiously inspired document, based on divine principles. Until you accept that, you can never be correct in your references to it.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:38 pm
religiously inspired document?!?!
Yumpin yimminy!
That statement alone proves you don’t have a freaking clue what you’re talking about!
Home schooled in northern idaho, i presume.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:04 pmI don’t have to worry about looking like an ass Bigtool. You’ve got that job all sewed up. And like the ass you show you believe that progressives don’t celebrate Christmas. How out of touch with reality can one idiot be? I suspect you will show us.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:04 pmO. Bigmouth shows poor reading comprehension, which may explain his poor reasoning ability.
Still not a good day for O’Biggie.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:06 pmSo when will O’Leilly begin labeling the earliest immigrants to the United States as traitors to their home countries? For many, it seems that they came here to escape from the ravages that ensue when church and state are indistinguishable.
Ft. Collins, huh? One more place I don’t have to worry about including in my future travel plans.
I’m sure it will now be so overrun with Reich Wing christofascists that it would be impossible to find a parking space there anyway.
“Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. ” — Blaise Pascal
“History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.” — Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
“What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.†— James Madison
November 28th, 2007 at 4:07 pmThat’s why when it’s brought to light, the “Progressive†agenda loses.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 3:51 pm
the progressive agenda always wins in a free America, from the very founding of the country, a liberal democracy, dedicated to human rights, the opposite of the conservative agenda. the Progressive agenda has won for over 200 years, making this the most widely-admired country on the planet, until the conservative liars stole elections and destroyed the credibility of the USA. You revel in being totally wrong, bigfoot, but it is the only thing you’re any good at.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:08 pmSo bigfoot why don’t you cite your evidence as to why you believe the constitution is a religiously inspired documennt? Use the words of the founders, heck the federalist papers, the only legit document on the thought process for writing the constitution, should be your starting and finishing point. Let me know what I missed from Mr Jay, Mr Hamilton and Mr Madison when they wrote their essays.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:08 pmComment by joe cantwell — November 28, 2007 @ 3:52 pmâ€
No need to apologize. And again, very well, thank you.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
biggie if only you had gone to school in southern idaho, then you’d understand the true philosophical nature of the question.
consider the loofah biggie, consider the loofah.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:08 pmActually, personal experience is a far better teacher than mere theory tought by someone who’s never done anything remotely close to what they are attempting to teach about.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
when did you think of that one? while you were watching tv?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:10 pm#108 your own conjecture and twisting of the facts to fit your preconcieved notions is worse that what you are claiming others to be doing. Just because you don’t like the facts does not make them and less facty. Just because you can’t handle to truth does not make it any less truthy. and just because reality is liberally biased it dooes not mean reality is not real. Denial of the world around you will not make the world around you go away.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:14 pmComment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
There are three allusions to Christianity in the Constitution of the U.S.
The first allusion is the first amendment itself.
Writings of those who worked on the amendment and of those who were closer to the time of the writing make it clear that the amendment is there so that there would not be a denominational test – choosing one Christian denomination over another – for public office. Nothing about this amendment suggests that the intent is to place any other belief system on par with Christianity or that God is to be removed from the public square. At the time of the writing many of the states had “state religions.â€
The second allusion is the number of days allowed to accomplish certain business of the government. Sunday is not counted as a business day. Sunday is the day of worship for Christians.
The third allusion is the dating of the document. The phrase “In the year of our Lord…†is used. I assume A.D. was available to the authors.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:14 pmSo bigfoot why don’t you cite your evidence as to why you believe the constitution is a religiously inspired documennt? Use the words of the founders, heck the federalist papers, the only legit document on the thought process for writing the constitution, should be your starting and finishing point. Let me know what I missed from Mr Jay, Mr Hamilton and Mr Madison when they wrote their essays.
Comment by Severus — November 28, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Everything Bigtool knows he learned from his wife, the former Target employee who has now worked her way up to working at Sears. Impressive, yes, but they didn’t teach her about the federalist papers during orientation.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:14 pmComment by Daryll — November 28, 2007 @ 4:06 pm
We’ll remove anything we desire because we are the MAJORITY!
November 28th, 2007 at 4:15 pmDaryll, before ypou get too wrapped in your “ACLU hates God” rant, you might want to peruse this list of cases in which the ACLU DEFENDED religious groups whose freedoms were under attack.
Then try to reconcile it with your twisted view of what the ACLU actually does.
Thanks.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:15 pmActually, personal experience is a far better teacher than mere theory tought by someone who’s never done anything remotely close to what they are attempting to teach about.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
when did you think of that one? while you were watching tv?
Comment by joe cantwell — November 28, 2007 @ 4:10 pm
Yes, Biggie gets all his life lessons from “Dancing With the Stars”. The commercials are what inspire he and his wife to look for new jobs. Next stop J. C. Penney.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:16 pmDaryll,
Have you and your wife considered taking your traveling show to papua/new guinea? i understand some of indigenous folk there have a fondness for missionaries such as yourself, if you know what i mean.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:18 pmActually, personal experience is a far better teacher than mere theory tought by someone who’s never done anything remotely close to what they are attempting to teach about.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:08 pm
Actually, O. Bigtool, I didn’t say “personal experience” I said “personal ANECDOTE.” And since what you reported was experienced not by you but by your wife, it is not your personal experience you are drawing on.
And why did you choose to contrast “personal experience” (which didn’t exist in this case anyway) with ” mere theory tought by someone who’s never done anything remotely close to what they are attempting to teach about”? Seems like a textbook case of A Strawman argument.
STILL not a good day for O’Biggie.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:18 pmOh dear! I put colored Christmas lights up in my window and a wreath on my door…does that mean that Billo & Bigfoot have won??????
OOOOOOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
They’re gonna take away my SP card!
November 28th, 2007 at 4:19 pmHowever, it is the “Progressive†agenda to ban any mention of “Christ†from the public square, something Traditional Americans oppose at every opportunity. Thus, this year, you will be seeing, and hearing, a lot more “Merry Christmas†than last year.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:13 pm
Uh, no it isn’t, Biggoof. It is Bill O’Reilly’s agenta to make you 24 percenters think so though. And you, like a lamb to slaughter follow him willingly. And tradition Americans are those 76% who think you, O’Reilly and of course duhduhduhDaryll are a bunch of idiots.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:19 pmAs Glenn Beck would say: “I may not be a religious scholar, but I’m a thinker!â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
who’s glenn beck? one of your teachers from northern idaho?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:21 pmComment by Shayne — November 28, 2007 @ 4:16 pm
I like your style!
November 28th, 2007 at 4:22 pmO. Bigfoot:
“However, the Christ of “Christmas†is the reason for the season.”
No, that’s a lie. The late December holiday season has been celebrated in the West since Pagan times. Most of our holiday traditions come from Saturnalia and Yule. The early Christian settlers in America understood the Pagan origins of “Christmas” and outlawed the holiday.
Conservatives always suffer from sudden hearing loss when you point out these historical facts.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:23 pmSTILL not a good day for O’Biggie.
Comment by ralph the wonder llama — November 28, 2007 @ 4:18 pm
let’s give him cred… he can do this and operate a fleet of delivery trucks all at the same time!
unless he’s living of the old lady’s salary from target… think?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:23 pmAs Glenn Beck would say: “I may not be a religious scholar, but I’m a thinker!â€
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
Quoting Glenn Beck, priceless! I must go catch my breath. All this laughing is killing me.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:23 pmYou are obviously the product of a secular education. Sad.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:19 pm
attended catholic schools grade K-7.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:24 pmthen i saw the light.
Oh look. Hillbilly is taking a stab at humor. Why don’t you try just stabbing yourself Hillbilly. You could probably be successful at something then and you’d make all of us happy. Thanks then.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:26 pm“who’s glenn beck? one of your teachers from northern idaho?
Comment by joe cantwell — November 28, 2007 @ 4:21 pmâ€
Sure, why not?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
did he teach you how to run a fleet of delivery trucks? ’cause he sounds like a guy who teaches folks how to run a fleet of delivery trucks.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:29 pm“However, it is the “Progressive†agenda to ban any mention of “Christ†from the public square, something Traditional Americans oppose at every opportunity.”
No one is trying to ban Christ from being mentioned in the public square. The public square is an appropriate forum for religious expression because people are free to come and go and ignore what is said there. But people are not free to ignore the government, so the goverbnment must be neutral on religious matters, in other words, secular.
You can express your religion IN the public square, but not WITH the public square.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:30 pmActually, I already am CEO of my own business, Shayne, I don’t need to run anyone else’s outfit.
And what kind of work do you do?
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:22 pm
Actually I own an automobile business with my husband. What kind of business do you own?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:31 pmComment by Shayne — November 28, 2007 @ 4:26 pm
I now have no choice but to flag you.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:32 pmConservatives always suffer from sudden hearing loss when you point out these historical facts.
Comment by Squeaky Wheels — November 28, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
That’s because they’re trying to stop their heads from assploding.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:32 pmThis silly nonissue cracks me up everytime. Can we expand this to the War on Easter what with the fertility bunny and eggs and all. I would also like to see more discussion of the War on Thanksgiving, the War on Arbor Day, and the War on Valentine’s Day. I can’t get enough of this good stuff
November 28th, 2007 at 4:32 pmunless he’s living of the old lady’s salary from target… think?
Comment by joe cantwell — November 28, 2007 @ 4:23 pm
Yeah he can probably live off the wife’s retailers’ salary. He clearly doesn’t waste money on anything like books or newspapers or magazines. Every thing he know he learned on Fox News and from Glenn Beck, oh that just slays me.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:34 pmModern Christianity merely celebrates the holiday by giving it it’s own meaning, of which our Government was fully aware when it sanctioned the holiday.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
what’s wrong with old fashion christianity might i ask?
and is your wife working late again tonight at the target?
and how long are you going to go on falling for that one?
eh?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:34 pmComment by Shayne — November 28, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Given the “stabbing” comment, I’d hate to be your husband.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:35 pm“Your wife? Nice anecdotal and incorrect information. The CEO wanted to be politically correct and issued the dictum. It had nothing to do with any orders from anybody outside the corporation, you idiot.
Comment by Shayne — November 28, 2007 @ 3:54 pmâ€
Which is exactly what I said, Shayne. Better do YOUR research before spouting off, lest you look like an ass.
Comment by O. Bigfoot
WHAT?!?!? So you are now telling me that it was TARGET who stopped TARGET from putting up the Merry Christmas banner?!?! How dare they prevent themselves from erecting religious icons on their own private property!!!! We will have to keep a close eye on Target. In the future, if they once again try to exert their free will to say “Happy Holidays”, or some other such blaspheme on their own private property, we will indeed make those heathens a TARGET on the War on Christmas!
November 28th, 2007 at 4:35 pmModern Christianity merely celebrates the holiday by giving it it’s own meaning, of which our Government was fully aware when it sanctioned the holiday.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:28 pm
And then Bigtuna shows us the true meaning of Republicanism. When you’re proven wrong and lose the game you move the goalposts. Typical Bigturd, typical.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:36 pmI don’t know…
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:32 pm
don’t know what biggie?… you sound worried.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:36 pmComment by Shayne — November 28, 2007 @ 4:34 pm
Stay on the topic. You’re currently not looking any better than the usual troll.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:36 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
Beats the greasy, overpriced mechanic shop.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:39 pmGiven the “stabbing†comment, I’d hate to be your husband.
Comment by Lt. Progressive — November 28, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
I wouldn’t be married to Billy Hill or anybody like him so it wouldn’t be a problem. My husband has a sense of humor and he knows how to use it. Hillbilly, sadly, does not.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:39 pm“Shoulda’ stuck with the Catholics, Livid.”
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:29 pm
yeah and i could’ve been a misinformed 24%er just like you!
November 28th, 2007 at 4:40 pmHome delivery meats. Steaks, chicken, pork, and seafood mostly. Veggies sometimes, and other foodstuffs that my customer base enjoys. Needless to say, I don’t have any vegetarians on my route..unless they are cheating.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
how do you balance that with the unpaid career you have online here?
oh that’s right. your wife has a job.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:40 pmWow! Nothing like a story on BillO to bring out the trolls. One would think that he could defend himself, if his position were defensible.
Methinks they dost protest too much.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:41 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
I trust you are only carrying only seafoods which can be certified as coming from sustainable fisheries and none of those ridiculous farmed shrimp?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:41 pm“There are three allusions to Christianity in the Constitution of the U.S.”
Are these due to divine inspiration, or due to just following a 1000 year old culture? Kind of like how Christmas is viewed today, not so much a holiday as it is a day off from work?
My main question (if I didn’t state it accurately, I apologize) is whether or not our Founding Fathers intended this nation to be a Christian nation, or a nation that, while having certain aspects of Christian culture (Sundays off, using Anno Domini), was to be secular.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:41 pm“Happy Holidaysâ€, or some other such blaspheme on their own private property, we will indeed make those heathens a TARGET on the War on Christmas!
Comment by shoeless — November 28, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
Oh goody, now that Billo has won the war on Christmas he can fight the war on last year’s Christmas at Target until something new comes along. Like the war on St. Valentine or the war on bubbles on New Year’s Eve. I hate to see talent like Bighoot’s and Hillbilly’s go to waste.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:43 pmHome delivery meats. Steaks, chicken, pork, and seafood mostly. Veggies sometimes, and other foodstuffs that my customer base enjoys. Needless to say, I don’t have any vegetarians on my route..unless they are cheating.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:38 pm
The difference between us is that we supply healthcare and pensions to our employees so I don’t have to go suck off a retailer for my self employed husband. That’s the progressive way.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:45 pmbiggie?
biggie?
hmmm, maybe he really did own a fleet of meat and seafood delivery trucks (in nw new mexico). maybe he really did work for a living.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:46 pmBeats the greasy, overpriced mechanic shop.
Comment by Lt. Progressive — November 28, 2007 @ 4:39 pm
Oooh that cut me to the bone. Next time your car breaks down, call your butcher.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:46 pmI trust you are only carrying only seafoods which can be certified as coming from sustainable fisheries and none of those ridiculous farmed shrimp?
Comment by dbadass — November 28, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
Now db you’re talking to the Biggoof here. All his meats are imported from China. Profit is all that matters to a neocon like Biggie isn’t that right Biggie?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:48 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
you’re back!
how many customers do you have… two?
are you finished for the day?
has your wife called you from work yet?
are you watching “hoosiers” on the movie channel right now?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:50 pmbut she says she doesn’t have the personality for it, and would rather work in retail support, away from the public. Oh well. Not everyone can be as outgoing, I guess.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
What Biggie’s trying to say is that she stocks shelves because she can’t work with the public. Don’t sugar coat it Biggie we can handle the truth.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:51 pmI want to start a war on Christmas! Where do I sign up?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:53 pmRe: Comment #114 — “…Nothing about this amendment suggests that the intent is to place any other belief system on par with Christianity or that God is to be removed from the public square. At the time of the writing many of the states had “state religions. 
Benjamin Franklin did not appear to be a huge fan of Christianity. About the topic, he was quoted as follows:
“If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both there (England) and in New England.”
It certainly would seem that John Adams, our second president, was not a major promoter of Christianity. Please consider the following quote:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved–the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!” — John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
And are you sure that Thomas Jefferson supported Christianity:
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry.”
Twenty gods or no god? Which Christian denomination provides such a degree of latitude?
Do you suppose that Christianity as practiced in Salem, MA (circa 1619) might what the Founding Fathers had mind–or not?
Anyone who pays taxes in this country is already supporting (financially, at least) Christian denominations in this country. The U. S. government collects taxes from most of us (except the very rich) and then hands it over to the “right” Christian denominations as part of the program for faith-based initiatives. Whether we like it or not, we have no choice (short of voting the scoundrels out of office) as to whether we will place our hard-earned money in the offering plate, which plate we will place it in, or how much we will be required to donate.
In fact, how many of you have received a notice from the I. R. S., enumerating for you how much of your tax bill went to church-based organizations? At the very least, you should be able to deduct it as a charitable contribution.
We should also receive an accounting of how well their program worked in repairing the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:55 pm“Modern Christianity has adopted the religious meaning of Christmas as it’s own”
That doesn’t make sense. What is the “religious meaning” of Christmas that “modern” Christianity had to adopt? Christmas is “Christ Mass”, a church service. The church chose to observe the Christ Mass during the ongoing and very popular winter solstice holiday season. It’s a case of mutual accomodation.
But most of our holiday customs were invented by the pagans to brighten up the longest nights of the year. Therefore, that’s the TRUE meaning of Christmas.
And it’s a federa holiday merely because most people want to take off work that day. No further rationalization is needed. You wouldn’t want the government to respect the establishment of relgion, would you?
November 28th, 2007 at 4:55 pmWhen I started this biz I was a single dad, who’s cheatin’ ex-wife decided to have an affair with her boss and then run off to Florida leaving the kids with me, which is fine by me as well. I got the best part of the former relationship, and she got to be homeless until she found some other guy to sponge off of. Instant Karma, I suppose.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
That sucks.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:56 pmWell, on that note, good night and Happy Holidays all!
I think that BillO should be recognized for his unflagging support of pagan tradition. He’s the most visible tree-worshiper we’ve got.
November 28th, 2007 at 4:57 pmWhen I started this biz I was a single dad, who’s cheatin’ ex-wife decided…
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
biggie, stay away from them there “cheatin’ wives”, ya hear?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:00 pmWow Bigfoot believes in Karma.
What needs of the ex-wife was Bigfoot not meeting?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:01 pmIf she wants to stock shelves too, that’s fine by me.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
yeah. long as she ain’t stocking another man’s shelf, right?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:01 pmComment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 4:41 pm
The following article at
quotes John Adams
My thought on your question: I believe the founders intended the United States to be a nation for a Christian people. Thus, the influence of Christianity and the Bible in our nation… we would not be the nation we are without that influence. We will not continue to be the nation we want to be without the influence of Christianity and the Bible.
Paraphrasing Judge Moore here our rights are unalienable because they were given by God. If these rights are given by men, then men can, and will, take them away.
These are my opinions.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:01 pmThese are my opinions.
Comment by bitblt — November 28, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
yes but what of the “all seeing eye and the unfinished pyramid”?
eh?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:04 pmCall me a-hole if you want, but the courts were on this single dad’s side, so your opinion matters little, if at all.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
so you’re living off your ex-wife and your current wife, eh?
are you a muslim?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:06 pmPerhaps many would be shocked to learn that the verbiage “under God” was not added to the pledge of allegiance until 1954, during the first Eisenhower administration.
This occurred at the height of the Cold War, when most would rather be labeled as a child molester than a Communist (remember, a central tenet of communism was atheism).
So, for all you scholars out there, if the Founding Fathers were such ardent Christians and saw no problem with the marriage of Church and State, why wasn’t this language added at a much earlier point in our history?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:07 pmReally Bigfoot it’s hard to understand how any woman could resist all the charm you ooze here. But her leaving is all about her flaws not your’s. You’re just perfect aren’t you.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:07 pmComment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Wow. Living proof that socialism works!
November 28th, 2007 at 5:08 pm#156 sounds like a Schwann man.
This whole topic is really just a bit of entertainment for me. Why? Because christmas and christianity are not under assault in this country. But it provides red meat for those who need others to think for them. Me all it does is gives me a little perspective on how messed up our country has become and how uneducted the conservative masses truely are, how very little American history they know and how little they understand the very basis on which our country was founded on. Sure many of them may have gone to school, but just to get the paper, they really were not interested in education. And mainly this topic serves as an annual diverson for the country. The fake conservative outrage is that…fake. It is designed and propagated to divert attention away from the fact that every proposal put forth and put into action by their party’s think tanks has resulted in failure. Sadly the hard core 30% club will contiue to support a party whose every action is generally against their constituents best interests. But as long as they are wrong decisively their faithfull will follow. Better to be wronng agressively then to be right with doubts.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:08 pmCac lead.
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 4:57 pm
Oh that is impressive Bigtuna. Does she do brain surgery in her spare time?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:10 pmBigpuke proves he is stupid once again by sharing personal information and making himself vulnerable when he should know, and probably does know full well it would be used against him.
I view it as a sign of needing meaningful relationships.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:10 pmWell, it looks like all the kiddies are home from school and want to play their personal attack game rather than actually discuss anything that matters, and I gotta go finish planting some tree seedlings and then go to work, chat with ya’ all later, and Merry Christ-Mass!
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 5:06 pm
just when you were starting to win you’re giving up?!
November 28th, 2007 at 5:11 pmWould you rather be angry or right?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:12 pmIt’s kind of like how I had an argument with my mother-in-law about the divine inspiration in the Declaration of Independence. Her point was the two references of “nature’s god†(with ‘god’ in lower case)and “creatorâ€, and how this was proof that the Founders were inspired by God. I said that if they intented to make a reference to God, then why didn’t they just include the word “Godâ€? Were they afraid of offending non-Christians or something. She really couldn’t give me anything resembling a good reply.
My wife says I can’t debate her mom anymore because of that.
Comment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 3:54 pm
The founders didn’t think they had to clarify any more than “nature’s god” and “creator.” They were trying to allow people to worship freely, not deny the existence of God. Who do you suppose they were referring to by creator, the big bang? ;)
November 28th, 2007 at 5:12 pmWhat psychological issue of Bigfoot’s attracted him to such a loser of an ex-wife?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:13 pmThe founders didn’t think they had to clarify any more than “nature’s god†and “creator.†They were trying to allow people to worship freely, not deny the existence of God. Who do you suppose they were referring to by creator, the big bang? ;)
Comment by upright left — November 28, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
i don’t know about all of the founders but i’m pretty sure benji franklin was a big bang man.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:15 pmIn the meantime, I’m really outta here this time..but feel free to continue to make me the center of your attention…
Comment by O. Bigfoot — November 28, 2007 @ 5:16 pm
gonna check on your wife?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:18 pmComment by upright left — November 28, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
On what are you basing this speculation which you seem to be trying to express as fact?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:18 pmJust can’t leave ay Biggy?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:19 pm#186, I think you need to do a little research on Mr Adams and his religious beliefs. One quote will simply not cover the issue properly. He pretty much rejected christian dogma. Once again I am sincerely asking the conservatives of the world to read about these people, not to simply take the words they find on their biased websties and use them in a distorted out of context mannner.
Gotta go now.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:20 pmWhat psychological issue of Bigfoot’s attracted him to such a loser of an ex-wife?
Comment by ForTruth — November 28, 2007 @ 5:13 pm
I don’t think his shortcoming is just psychological if you know what I mean.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:20 pmComment by upright left — November 28, 2007 @ 5:12 pm
On what are you basing this speculation which you seem to be trying to express as fact?
Comment by dbadass — November 28, 2007 @ 5:18 pm
The same place upright left gets all his facts db. He pulls them right out of his ass.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:21 pmMore for
Comment by bitblt — November 28, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
In an on-line artilce at
The “Oath of Office†for the early states are certainly explicit in what they mean
November 28th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Here’s something I’d like to share with the class:
It’s War on Christmas season once again. Non-Christians complain that Christianity gets rammed down their throat every December, while conservative Christians complain that there’s a vast “war†being waged to stamp out observance of the holiday.
But by now we should all be aware that most of the customs we associate with Christmas are pagan, not Christian, in origin and derive either from the Roman “Saturnalia†or Norse “Yule†winter solstice celebrations. The early Christians simply merged the observance of the birth of Jesus with the existing holiday season. This was partly to make conversion to Christianity more acceptable to pagan communities, and later to provide cover for keeping the enjoyable pagan traditions alive. The often boisterous seasonal revelry was rationalized as understandable excitement in anticipation of attending the “Christ Massâ€.
So where we’re talking about “Christmas†we’re really just talking about a church service, and there’s a lot more to the holiday season than that. Traditions like colored lights, Santa Claus, and exchanging presents around the tree can be considered secular and separate from the observance of the birth of Jesus. Add to these the traditions of Jewish Hanukkah, Neo-pagan Winter Solstice, African-American Kwanzaa, and of course New Years, and “holidays†encompasses quite a smorgasbord of options. People who want to include a specific religious tradition can simply plug that in to the broader holiday season. And they can call it whatever they want. Jews and other non-Christians need not prohibit themselves or their children from
should feel free to participate in all the myriad secular aspects of the holiday season, and conservatives should spare us the conspiracy theories.
You’ll still get your presents, and that’s the most important thing.
You see, children, Christmas is a vast magic spell, but it only works so long as everyone says ‘Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas’. But if someone like the President or Wal Mart doesn’t say ‘Merry Christmas’, then the impact is devastating and the spell can be broken.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:24 pm“The founders didn’t think they had to clarify any more than “nature’s god†and “creator.†They were trying to allow people to worship freely, not deny the existence of God. Who do you suppose they were referring to by creator, the big bang? ;)”
Then why not just say “God”? And why say “their creator”? Why not say “the creator”?
And what Christian would ever call God “nature’s god”, with a lower case “g”? Isn’t that usually reserved for references to non-Chrisitan deities, even in the 18th Century?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:24 pmComment by republicans hate facts — November 28, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
“…they are endowed by their Creator…”
They capitalized “Creator.” Perhaps you should too.
And I don’t really think the declaration is big on metaphors.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:28 pmComment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 5:24 pm
Christ refers to the “Creator” in Matthew 19.
I expect the writers knew that, but that’s just speculation on my part.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:30 pm“Christ refers to the ‘Creator’ in Matthew 19.
I expect the writers knew that, but that’s just speculation on my part.”
THE Creator, not THEIR Creator, as it is printed in the Declaration.
Smart as they were, I’m wondering why the writers chose that word (”their”) instead of “the”.
Also, Wasn’t John Adams the same president that signed the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, which stated in its Article XI:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
If John Adams was so worried about America losing its Christian identity, why would he sign a treaty that declared America a non-Christian nation?
November 28th, 2007 at 5:38 pmIf John Adams was so worried about America losing its Christian identity, why would he sign a treaty that declared America a non-Christian nation?
Comment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
Oh *smack* I wonder if littlebits brain just exploded.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:47 pmWow, you mean the surge on the War on Christmas is working as well as the surge in Iraq? Thank God we have a modern day Jesus Christ (well, if Jesus was a pro-war, anti-poor, pro-torture, sexually harrassing racist) in our great country.
November 28th, 2007 at 6:02 pmA local radio personality, following the lead of Sean Hannety, expressed his “disgust” with Americans celebrating Halloween (begging for Satan) while “trivializing the most Holy of Holy days”.
If they are really worried about “begging” shouldn’t they speak out against “bell ringers”? I know they give me a headache.
November 28th, 2007 at 6:06 pmMy thought on your question: I believe the founders intended the United States to be a nation for a Christian people. Thus, the influence of Christianity and the Bible in our nation… we would not be the nation we are without that influence. We will not continue to be the nation we want to be without the influence of Christianity and the Bible.
Paraphrasing Judge Moore here our rights are unalienable because they were given by God. If these rights are given by men, then men can, and will, take them away.
These are my opinions.
Comment by bitblt — November 28, 2007 @ 5:01 pm
You really don’t mind looking like an antiAmerican idiot, do you? men can, and do, take them away, every day, and god does nothing about it. You’re one stupid little creep.
November 28th, 2007 at 6:23 pmActually they specifically mention atheists and the freedom to be an atheist all of the time. The creator is a metaphor for the desire that there be someone or something that created things – it doesn’t mean you have to be a Christian or Religious freak – moron.
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 28, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
…that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by a metaphor for the desire that there be someone or something that created things…? Sounds great, bud. I think you’re on to something here. Those founders were none to bright if they couldn’t figure out a way to say that men have inherent rights without using a Creator in whom they didn’t believe. ;)
November 28th, 2007 at 6:37 pmWe are NOT a Christian nation – DEBATE OVER!
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 28, 2007 @ 6:41 pm
if more Christians acted more Christian, there would be more Christians.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:03 pm(waving pocket watch at BOR:)
You will say…nappy-headed hos…over and over on the air…
November 28th, 2007 at 7:16 pmComment by hotsudogu — November 28, 2007 @ 7:16 pm
He, and everyone else, already did that. They called it “reporting” so they were immune.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:27 pmWouldn’t it be cool if a cavalry of elves rode in on reindeer-back to do battle on the plains of Nazareth while Santa’s little helpers simultaneously defended the beaches of the Island of Misfit Toys in the multifronted War on Christmas? The grinch could manage the enhanced interogations while Frosty could handle things over at the UN. A coalition of the coerced could get the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny to mass their forces in the East and the Whos in Whoville can plant the victory gardens. I am afraid Rudolph better be sent to Gitmo what with the “Red” nose and all.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:39 pmQuestion for the Christian Reich members posting on this thread…
Is there nothing else that you could be doing on behalf of your Creator/creator (pick one) that would constitute a higher priority than what you are doing now?
You answer will tell us all much about you and the deity that your worship (at least as conceptualized by you).
November 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pmI am an agnostic, dyed in the wool liberal and proud of it. My first wife is Jewish. Like a lot of families, we celebrate both holidays, even with friends wo are of neither religion!
I am sick and tired of this phony War on Christmas crap being used as a bludgeon against us.
So I have a proposal.
This season, I would like to see a TV commercial with Michael Moore, Al Franken, Jane Fonda, John Kerry… all the usual suspects, everybody simply saying a gracious “Merry Christmas.”
The ones who are not Christians could maybe say something along the lines of, “To all our Christian friends…”
We can afford to be gracious and open-hearted, embodying the true spirit of the season.
I would really love to see that.
Besides, mom always said the best way to defeat an enemy is to OUTCLASS them! ;)
November 28th, 2007 at 10:26 pmWell, I see the Bush cultists think the US constitution was a work of divine revelation, like the Bible.
For all the thinking people reading this thread (that’s not you, cultists) here is a quick reference to the historical influences that helped shape the US constitution:
Several of the ideas in the Constitution were new, and a large number of ideas were drawn from the literature of Republicanism in the United States, from the experiences of the 13 states, and from the British experience with mixed government. The most important influence from the European continent was from Montesquieu, who emphasized the need to have balanced forces pushing against each other to prevent tyranny. (This in itself reflects the influence of Polybius’ 2nd-century BC treatise on the checks and balances of the constitution of the Roman Republic.)
US Constitution
Did you see the word “religion” in there? Neither did I.
These cultists still have to wrap their tiny minds around the fact that the US constitution is a secular document with easily identifiable secular roots.
November 28th, 2007 at 11:12 pmWe are NOT a Christian nation – DEBATE OVER!
Comment by republicans hate facts — November 28, 2007 @
Well, that definitely settles it, bud. The whole world was just waiting for hates facts to tell us how it is. Now we can have peace. Now can ya work that magic on the Iraq war? ;)
November 28th, 2007 at 11:43 pmIf John Adams was so worried about America losing its Christian identity, why would he sign a treaty that declared America a non-Christian nation?
Comment by RickS — November 28, 2007 @ 5:38 pm
Why would John Adams have worried about that? The country was young, most people were believers, and he couldn’t possibly have forseen the deterioration in morals that has occurred. The language of the treaty was intended to appease the Muslims who were attacking American ships and enslaving Christians. It was intended to distance American Christians from crusading Christians of the past. It’s true that the government of the U.S. did not declare Christianity our official religion. I think we all agree that religious liberty was a priority. That doesn’t mean the founders didn’t believe that Christianity would have a large influence and is hardly a basis for claiming all the founders were atheists, though there is sufficient evidence to question the depth of faith of some. There are enough references to God and our Creator to discredit that view. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 12:28 amow db you’re talking to the Biggoof here. All his meats are imported from China. Profit is all that matters to a neocon like Biggie isn’t that right Biggie?
Comment by Shayne
And given the hostility of wingnuts toward the FDA, it’s highly unlikely that he allows his meats to be inspected. Look at what happened to one of his neighbors just the other day!
Toddling E. coli survivor gives back to hospital
Posted: Nov 13, 2007 06:57 PM CST
ALBUQUERQUE – A 3-year-old New Mexico boy who almost died after contracting E. coli is giving back to the hospital that saved his life.
Kevin Mendoza carried the torch through Albuquerque today in the Children’s Miracle Network torch relay.
The relay benefits the UNM Children’s Hospital where he was a patient.
Kevin’s kidneys are still only functioning at 50 percent, and it’s likely he’ll need a transplant.
Today’s run was just a way to thank the hospital for all they’ve done.
http://www.krqe.com/Global/story.asp?S=7356017
November 29th, 2007 at 9:47 amAppeasing Muslims, imagine the wingnuts’ reaction to that.
And maybe if the writers of the Constitution foresaw slavery nearly destroying the country, they would have outlawed it from the start.
Or if they saw how whole parts of the Native American population would be driven to near extermination, they would have ensured their protection in the Constitution.
And most of the Founders were Deists, not atheists.
Also, what has been Christianity’s “large influence” on our country?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:09 amComment by RickS — November 29, 2007 @ 10:09 am
Slavery was an issue of contention at the Congenital Congress. Compromises were required to get the Declaration signed; however, John Adams predicted that the issue of slavery would raise its head again.
But as to the issue of “Native Americans”, perhaps their ( the founding fathers’ ) view was a bit more practical and much less enlightened than your view.
http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/declaration_transcript.html
From the Declaration of Independence…
November 29th, 2007 at 10:39 am
#231 – Precious!
I needed a laugh this morning. Thanks!
face it trolls, a true christian would welcome a war on christmas as it is celebrated in this country.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:47 am“Appeasing Muslims, imagine the wingnuts’ reaction to that.”
I guess you forgot that America hasn’t always been the world power it is today. No big deal.
“And maybe if the writers of the Constitution foresaw slavery nearly destroying the country, they would have outlawed it from the start.
Or if they saw how whole parts of the Native American population would be driven to near extermination, they would have ensured their protection in the Constitution.”
There’s that curious tendency to bring in other issues when unable to respond adequately to a comment. Yes, bud, perhaps they would have. Now feel free to return to the topic.
“And most of the Founders were Deists, not atheists.”
That’s a switch from most of the lib views I’ve seen posted here. Not that there is conclusive evidence for either.
“Also, what has been Christianity’s “large influence†on our country?”
Comment by RickS — November 29, 2007 @ 10:09 am
That last question is a joke, right, bud? Or was it just intended to incite your fellow libs? I’ll defer to them to point out the pervasive Christian influence in all areas of our society. They do seem to enjoy it so. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:00 amOther evidence of the influence of Christianity in Early America
From
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2942
America, Christianity, and the Culture War (Part I)
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Original State Constitutions
If the Framers wanted more direct references to Christianity to be left up to the several states, we ought to expect to see the framers of the state constitutions reflecting that intention. And, indeed, they did. Once the Founders declared independence from England, each state commenced to hammer out their respective state constitutions, with the exception of Connecticut which chose to continue to operate under its founding charter until eventually formulating its own state constitution in 1818 (Horton, 1988). If one will take the time to examine the original state constitutions, one will be absolutely overwhelmed by the fact that those framers (many of whom were also involved in working on the federal Constitution), were intimately attached to the God of the Bible and deliberately reflected that attachment in their political pronouncements. The state constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, much of which is believed to be the product of John Adams, provides just one sample. In “Part the First,†the constitution reads:
In “Part the Second,†the constitution enumerated the civil officers of the state:
Further, the “Oath of Office†that was to be taken by anyone who wished to serve as “governor, lieutenant governor, councillor, senator or representative†began with the declaration: “I, A.B., do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth.â€
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The John Adams referred to is the same John Adams who was the president who signed the Treaty of Tripoli mentioned above.
Excerpts from several state constitution preambles are include in this article and they are quite interesting.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:02 amThe John Adams referred to is the same John Adams who was the president who signed the Treaty of Tripoli mentioned above.
Comment by bitblt
The John Adams referred to is the same John Adams who signed the Alien and Sedition Act, which, among other things, made it illegal to criticize the President. He shut down many newspapers and jailed the editors, including the grandson of Benjamin Franklin. Until Bush came along, he was the worst president in U.S. history. The American people were so horrified by his totalitarianism that his Federalist party was thrown onto the scrapheap of history, never to be heard from again.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:09 pm“I guess you forgot that America hasn’t always been the world power it is today. No big deal.”
Well, you said John Adams would be offended by our present “moral decline”, so I was commenting on what I believe would be the reaction of our modern day wingnuts to what in their mind would be appeasement to a bunch of pirates off the Barbary Coast.
“That last question is a joke, right, bud? Or was it just intended to incite your fellow libs? I’ll defer to them to point out the pervasive Christian influence in all areas of our society. They do seem to enjoy it so. ;)”
Well, then, insteading of throwing the question back at me, you should have no problem listing the myriad of influences of Christianity on our society.
“But as to the issue of “Native Americansâ€, perhaps their ( the founding fathers’ ) view was a bit more practical and much less enlightened than your view.”
But had the fortune of foresight, and saw how the Native Americans were to be treated (a lot of Indians were killed without regard to sex or age), would they, as good Christians, tried to ensure their livelihood?
I brought this up, and the question of slavery, because upright left claimed that if John Adams had foresight of our “moral decay” (what is that, exactly?), he would had declared our nation a Christian nation, apparently to ensure its salvation.
If you are going to say “well, if only they saw how our nation was going to ruin because you can see nude photos on the Internet”, then can’t you say the same thing about slavery and Indians?
If the Founders, even those who were slave owners, were privy to the knowledge that a devastating civil war would result from slavery, would they still have allowed slavery to continue?
And if they saw how whole populations of indingenous peoples were to be brought to the point of extinction, would they have been so quick to label said groups “savages”?
What would Jesus do?
November 29th, 2007 at 2:12 pmHey Bill-O
why not go all the way with your “War on Christmas?”
November 29th, 2007 at 10:11 pmAsk yourself, what does adorning your homes with lights, evergreen trees, fake snowmen, reindeer, and Santas have to do with the birth of Baby Jesus?? How about giving each each other gifts? Why not call for a ban on such objects???
Another war-whooping snotball from a guy who never shouldered a rifle.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:46 amComment by RickS — November 29, 2007 @ 2:12 pm
Would the founders have outlawed slavery had they forseen the Civil War? Possibly, but not necessarily since slavery was accepted at the time. The Indians? Again, hard to say, considering the mindset regarding the differences in the “civilized” and “uncivilized” peoples. It is easier to see that the founders wanted to protect religious liberty (the right to worship as one chooses, not the current lib view that they have the right to be protected from exposure to any trace of religion in any area of society) and would probably have included stronger language to that effect had they forseen the future attacks on Christianity. ;)
November 30th, 2007 at 1:14 amHey Bill-O
why not go all the way with your “War on Christmas?â€
Ask yourself, what does adorning your homes with lights, evergreen trees, fake snowmen, reindeer, and Santas have to do with the birth of Baby Jesus?? How about giving each each other gifts? Why not call for a ban on such objects???
Comment by sc mom — November 29, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
The task force suggested removing colored lights because THEY thought it was too representative of Christmas decorations. O’Reilly was simply reacting to the idea that a Christian display is offensive in a Christian community. He never objected to displays of other religions, just the attack on the Christmas display. As for the giving of gifts, that is in honor of the greatest gift ever given. Cool how that works, eh? ;)
November 30th, 2007 at 1:19 amadorning your homes with lights, evergreen trees, fake snowmen, reindeer, gift-giving and Santas have NOTHING to do with the birth of Jesus — Bill-O needs to go all out on his so-called “war.” all or nothing!
November 30th, 2007 at 2:51 am“Future attacks on Christianity”?
Telling someone “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” is an attack on Christianity?
Somehow, I really don’t see how that compares to the Inquisition, 19th Century pogroms, Kristalnacht, and the Holocaust.
And they would still accept slavery, even knowing that it would be the root cause of massive devastation and hundreds of thousands of lives?
Or still label Native Americans as “savages” even though those groups would still face almost total annihilation?
What Christian would allow these to happen? And would they really think that making sure a Navity scene could stay in a public park was more important?
November 30th, 2007 at 9:15 amThese are PROGRESSIVE values:
Thou shalt not kill (as in: wars of choice)
Suffer the little children to come unto me (as in: make sure kids have food, shelter and health care- yes, even the poor ones. Especially the poor ones.)
Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s (one of the first expressions of the establishment clause).
PROGRESSIVE values are also Christian values (and Muslim values, and Wiccan values, and Jewish values).
The so called “religious right” is not religious at all. They preach hate. It is not a Christian value to thump on your chest, threaten people (like O’Liely) encourage hatred for other people, demand that everyone celebrate Christmas and everyone’s taxes be used to celebrate Christmas YOUR WAY and no other religious holiday, and say that you are doing this in the service of Christ. Christ would vomit if he saw what is passing itself off as “Christian” in the United States.
November 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pm“Future attacks on Christianity�
Telling someone “happy holidays†instead of “Merry Christmas†is an attack on Christianity?
Somehow, I really don’t see how that compares to the Inquisition, 19th Century pogroms, Kristalnacht, and the Holocaust.
And they would still accept slavery, even knowing that it would be the root cause of massive devastation and hundreds of thousands of lives?
Or still label Native Americans as “savages†even though those groups would still face almost total annihilation?
What Christian would allow these to happen? And would they really think that making sure a Navity scene could stay in a public park was more important?
Comment by RickS — November 30, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Trying to replace Merry Christmas, which acknowledges Christ, with Happy Holidays, which doesn’t acknowledge Christ, is a subtle attack on Christianity. The holiday wouldn’t exist without Jesus, so you can see, I’m sure, how Christians would take offense at attempts to make that substitution.
That’s quite a connection you made there between Indians and Christmas displays? Would the founders have thought a Christmas display in 2007 is more important than the deaths of most of a group of people in a previous century? You’re really reaching now, bud. My comment regarding slavery and Indians was based upon the prevailing thought at the time. You asked if they could have forseen what would happen to those groups, would they have done things differently. Are you also assuming they have a modern idea of the worth of all people along with that foreknowledge? Remember, at that time, “savages” and “primitives” wern’t valued the same as white men. You have to consider the mindset if you want to predict their actions. Besides, with the lib view that the founders weren’t Christians, the whole discussion is useless for Christian bashing. ;)
December 1st, 2007 at 2:08 amThe so called “religious right†is not religious at all. They preach hate. It is not a Christian value to thump on your chest, threaten people (like O’Liely) encourage hatred for other people, demand that everyone celebrate Christmas and everyone’s taxes be used to celebrate Christmas YOUR WAY and no other religious holiday, and say that you are doing this in the service of Christ. Christ would vomit if he saw what is passing itself off as “Christian†in the United States.
Comment by ko — November 30, 2007 @ 7:44 pm
Some on the extreme right are hateful just like many on the extreme left are here. Christians don’t demand that anyone celebrate Christmas, we just oppose attempts to remove all evidence of the religion of the majority of Americans. O’Reilly said it’s fine to put up representations of other religions. He just objected to the removal of anything the task force deemed Christian. After all, it was the task force that said that colored lights are too representative of Christmas, not O’Reilly.
I have no doubt that Jesus is displeased with many of the actions of people, both believers and non-believers.
I noticed that you only listed the good points of progressive values and omitted the most damaging negative. The removal of personal responsibilty for ones actions. Whatever trouble you get into or responsibility you fail to take care of, it’s not your fault, we’ll fix it for you, and we won’t admonish you if you do so repeatedly. If it feels good, do it, no questions asked. Someone else will be responsible for taking care of you and repairing the damage you cause. ;)
December 1st, 2007 at 2:22 amO’Reilly said it’s fine to put up representations of other religions.
ok — in your yard, i have no problem with that.
but why is it ok to waste energy to put up lights that have nothing to do with Christmas — and waste energy? how much energy are we wasting illuminating lights for “christmas?”
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:11 amTruth, justice, gratitude and beauty ( admiration for the Creator’s work ), love, sympathy, benevolence….
I’m not aware that anyone has proven that these characteristics result from evolution though that has been hypothesized. Without purpose none of these characteristics are useful or beneficial.
BTW, gratitude and beauty here would include science, and justice is something every person desires. There is no concept of justice without accountability to God – Who is able to perfectly judge.
Please don’t bother telling me that horrific things have been done in the name of Christianity. I’m keenly aware of this. When you go to the trouble of thinking of these horrific things, why don’t you ask yourself a question or two? Were these things done because the ones doing them believed that Christ Jesus was the Son of God or because they were ignorant and needed a “belief†tool with which to manipulate their victims or to maintain their power?
As to asking for a “…listing the myriad of influences…’, perhaps it would be more telling, and simpler, to consider a “take away.â€
Would you really want a world without the influence of Christianity? What would you want to replace the influence of Christianity, and why would that replacement be better?
Do you think the U.S. would be the nation it is if there had not been for the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
What’s going to make the U.S. a better place than the influence of Christianity and the Bible?
A simple speculation here would be that Christianity has made life on earth as good as it can get. True, there is much room for improvement, but what’s going to drive that improvement if not Christianity?
Seems appropriate to me to say, “Merry Christmas! God’s Good News!â€
December 3rd, 2007 at 11:05 am