Rep. Hoekstra Was Source Of Joe Klein’s FISA Lies, Decries ‘Paranoid,’ ‘Self-Absorbed’ ‘Far-Left Critics’
Rep. Hoekstra Was Source Of Joe Klein’s FISA Lies, Decries ‘Paranoid,’ ‘Self-Absorbed’ ‘Far-Left Critics’
In Time Magazine last week, columnist Joe Klein baselessly claimed that Democrats’ proposed fix to FISA would require “every foreign-terrorist target’s calls to be approved by the FISA court.”
Today, House Intelligence Committee member and “Bush loyalist” Pete Hoekstra (R-MI) revealed that he was a “source” for Klein’s error-filled column, and proudly defends Klein in a column titled “Klein Kerfluffle” in the National Review.
In his original column, Klein insisted that Democrats’ legislation to provide constitutional protections for government surveillance of Americans, or the RESTORE Act, would require a court order to spy on foreign terrorists (Klein has since recanted these statements). In the column, Hoekstra insists that “Klein was correct in his original contention.” In reality, as the legislation clearly states:
A court order is not required for electronic surveillance directed at the acquisition of the contents of any communication between persons that are not known to be United States persons .
Klein ignorantly claimed the RESTORE Act “would give terrorists the same legal protections as Americans.” Hoekstra adds that Klein’s assertions are a “demonstratable fact.” Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ), a chief author of the RESTORE Act, countered that the legislation does exactly the opposite:
This bill provides exactly what the Director of National Intelligence asked for earlier this year: it explicitly states that no court order is required to listen to the conversations of foreigners that happen to pass through the U.S. telecommunications system. It does not grant Constitutional rights to foreign terrorists.
In his National Review piece, Hoekstra attacks progressive bloggers as “civil liberties extremists,” stating that a “belief that efforts to target al-Qaeda operatives in foreign countries” may involve U.S. citizens is evidence of “self-absorption” and “paranoia.” “The issue is not nor has it ever been about surveillance of Americans,” he alleges.
But under the hastily-passed Protect America Act, there are “virtually no protections” for U.S. callers in international communications, leaving surveillance authority to the administration. In fact, 61 percent of voters favor court protections for surveillance of Americans.
Marcy Wheeler notes that Hoekstra “is nuts, and very much in the business of creating propaganda.” And Joe Klein is willing to blindly publish whatever lies Hoekstra spews to him.
UPDATE: FDL posts the 4th amendment, stating, “Reporting skillz 101: read the original material.”
UPDATE II: Greenwald responds: “Hoekstra’s assurances of the Government’s good faith is identical to the assurances issued by Richard Nixon’s Attorney General, John Mitchell, at exactly the time the Nixon administration was abusing their eavesdropping powers.”
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I am ashamed that Hoekey is from my home state of Michigan(but not in my district).
November 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pmJoe Klein = Hack
How can I get a cushy job at a premier publication like Time while acting as a stenographer for the Republicans? Seems like a pretty sweet gig to me.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:00 pmUncle Ho:
Don’t feel bad. I live in Florida and have to endure chad jokes a full 7 years later. Sometimes you just can’t help where you live.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:02 pmDISGUSTED?
LET THEM KNOW!!!!!
letters@time.com
November 29th, 2007 at 4:04 pmCaption:
Yeah, Larry, yeah! Right there!
November 29th, 2007 at 4:04 pmUncle Ho: When’s this propagandist-liar’s term up? Maybe you can find an honest dem to take his seat? This guy’s a certifiable nutbag – cut from the same deluded mold from which most Repukes come.
Maybe someone can give Hoekstra (Hokey is a great nickname!) a primer in FISA rules and regs. Everyone knows that they can begin spying immediately and then go for a defacto permit 72 hours later.
Hokey’s a phoney and a liar and needs to be out of a job.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pmWow how can a person be a “civil liberties extremist” that’s an oxymoron, moron.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:09 pmThe rather large dilemma Bush has right now is that he promised the telecoms immunity from spying on US citizens – in cases where he knew a FISA warrant wouldn’t be granted. How do you speall B-L-A-C-K-M-A-I-L???
November 29th, 2007 at 4:11 pmTIME + CNN = TimeWarner. He’s a quisling who just said what he was supposed to say to appease his corporate masters. And he’ll keep saying it as long as the checks keep coming.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:12 pmWhat do facts have to do with politics??
There are enough people out there who just automatically believe what they read that the damage was done.
Which was precisely the intent.
And that’s why blogs scare the hell out of the mainstream media, because some blogs take a look at what’s said and present a reasoned, intelligent rebuttal, or in this case, point out the obvious lies. So, discredit the blogs so that the one’s on the edge don’t read that they were lied to….
November 29th, 2007 at 4:15 pmHoekstra a disgrace to Michigan
November 29th, 2007 at 4:18 pmHoekstra should be strung by his gonads after admitting that he was the source of such flagrant misinformation. He’s a fraud and doesn’t deserve to represent the people of Michigan.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:20 pmgo go go progressive bloggers!
November 29th, 2007 at 4:23 pmkeep up the heat… keep shinin’ that light!
.
Raynman: You’d better believe that anyone with a vested interest in what will soon become a dynosaur (MSM news) is attempting to smear the internet and the power of the blogs. I think that the blogosphere will actually be responsible for the election of our next president. That’s how powerful they are.
Remember the days when the politicos would lie and cheat knowing that it was remote that they’d be found out?? Not any more, thanks to the internet, you tube, and the information highway.
Can you imagine what it would be like right now if we didn’t have the Internet and how much these republican pigs would be getting away with? They’ve cheated, defrauded and lied DESPITE the probability of being found out and it’s repulsive enough. Imagine how totally disgusting Washington would be if they knew that there wasn’t a chance of being outed? Wow!
November 29th, 2007 at 4:24 pmKaty: We all need to “keep shinin’ the light” into the darkest, dankest, putrified corners of this government if we hope to right this sinking, stinking ship.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:25 pmFISA fundamentals:
You can spy on foreigners without a court order,
You cannot spy on Americans unless you get a court order,
You can start spying before the court grants permission for up to 72 hours, in cases of emergent, and time-sensitive situations.
How come an elected Congressional representative does not know this? Oh wait he could just be a liar.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:26 pmchicago tribune ran the story too…..
ctc-northwest@tribune.com; ctc-publisher@tribune.com; ctc-southwest@tribune.com; badee@tribune.com; ctc-editor@tribune.com; bdold@tribune.com; gdelama@tribune.com; jcwarren@tribune.com
November 29th, 2007 at 4:27 pmIt should be a crime when elected officials feed misinformation to their constituents.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:28 pmRight on – For Truth! Them’s the rules and regs so what’s the peeve all about? We all know what it’s about and it has nothing to do with FISA rules or aiding terrorists.
BTW, on Huffpo, Mayor Koch chimed in about how Rudy had “protection” for his mistress, Judith Nathan. He said that Judy used the NYPD as her “personal taxi service”. Now is this man believing that he’s honestly qualified to be president? This fraud who used taxpayer money to fund his trysts with his mistress, paid for guard protection for her, and then abused the NYPD as her taxi service?? Ghouliani is even more crazy than anyone can imagine.
Clearly, he and Judy are both on a trip to never-neverland. They’re both delusional frauds. Can’t wait to hear from Rudy’s ex and kids about how he moved Judy into Gracie Mansion and ousted his own flesh and blood out onto the street. Now that will be a juicy little tidbit.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:31 pmYes, Rudy’s son refuses to talk to him.
There’s your sign.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:32 pmForTruth: Not only should it be a crime but they should be fully investigated for lying and defrauding the public while under oath of office. Isn’t the word “truth” found somewhere within the oath? If so, Hoekstra needs to get the immediate boot for unethical (and potentially illegal) behavior.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:32 pmForTruth: I’d heard that and I can’t wait to see what Rudy’s own son has to say about his womanizer dad.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:33 pmOh it’s true about Andrew Guiliani. They were tight as a drum when he was young, always together at Yankee games. Now, Guiliani gets booed when they show his Gary Oldman Dracula head on the jumbotron.
The kid hates him.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:44 pmHoekstra is a brazen and desperate liar, like so many other Republicans these days. The GOP ship has struck the shoals and is going down.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:47 pmI sat on a Northwest Airlines flight from Washington National to Detroit with this pea-brain in July. In flight I asked him “so, Congressman, how is the surge working in Iraq?” He smiled and said “We’re making significant progress in Iraq.’ I smirked and said “Well Congressman, tell that to all the kids flying home in a box because of your President’s war, you m…f….er” Scared that i’d attack him Hoekstra rang the flight attendant call button and asked to be re-seated. It was one of the highlights of my life.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pmFrom the article: “Hoekstra attacks progressive bloggers as “civil liberties extremists”…”
If there even IS such a thing as a “civil liberties extremist”, then I accept the insult with enthusiasm.
dennis
November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pmIt just never ends with these right-wing morons…
November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pm#19… Giuliani made finally Judy an “honest woman” but that didn’t make him an “honest man”.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:54 pmInteresting thing about this name calling: ““civil liberties extremists,†“self-absorption,†and “paranoia;†it doesn’t change the facts of the matter, not any of the text in the law. Really all it produces are some sound-bytes for reichstag radio to replicate and harp on, while the rest of us reflect on the facts. It sort of reminds me of those crazy little dogs that bark and bark and bark trying to pretend they are rottweilers, dobermans, or mastiffs.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:55 pmWhen comes to “good faith” and this administration, it’s a contradiction in terms.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:57 pmWe’re now the majority, Mr. Radical Hoekstra. We’ll pass any bill of our choosing. If you don’t like your job, you should lose it.
I wonder what ties Peter has with Israel?
November 29th, 2007 at 4:58 pmCivil Liberties Extremists?
Too bad Stephen Colbert’s show is currently in reruns!
November 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pmComment by Veritas — November 29, 2007 @ 4:31 pm
Good repubs, huh? Kicking their kids out on the street.
Do I sense, “family values”?
November 29th, 2007 at 4:59 pmComment by 2MillionLightYearsToAndromeda — November 29, 2007 @ 4:59 pm
I’m sure it’ll be the first thing the writers pick up once the picketing comes to a close.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:01 pmBen Dover: Did you put yourself in a hyperbaric chamber for a few hours following that close contact with an infected scumbag? Too funny!
Menehune: Your comment about Ghouliani making Judith an “honest woman”. Is that even possible? This woman knowingly participated in adultery which, at least in my book, makes her less than a wholesome woman. Besides, we are judged by the company we keep so I would suspect that little miss Judy has plenty of her own “skeletons” in every closet from way, way back. You just don’t fall in love with a mafioso thug and believe that you’re marrying an honest man. Life doesn’t work that way. Like kinds attract so my take on her is that she’s as callous, egomanical, delusional, and self-serving as Ghouliani himself.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:02 pmNew bumper sticker:
CIVIL LIBERTIES EXTREMIST, and proud of it.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:03 pmWhen it comes to “family values” which the Republitards trumpet as being important, their choice of Ghouliani only illustrates their level of party hypocrisy. Rudy has been thrice married, cheated on both of his wives, and destroyed his own children by his actions. How can this be anything but very sick family values?
November 29th, 2007 at 5:03 pmBesides, can you see little Miss Crumpet-Whore functioning as First Lady??
November 29th, 2007 at 5:05 pm#35…hence the quotes! She a Ho straight up (and lying down too!).
November 29th, 2007 at 5:08 pmComment by Veritas — November 29, 2007 @ 5:03 pm
Perhaps progressives are the ones with real family values. Republisters are all talk and no action in that department. Progressives shut up and get it done.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:14 pmBy labeling progressive bloggers as Civil Liberties Extremists it apparently convicts us according to Rep. Jane Harman’s “Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act†which passed the House 404-6 late last month. In case you don’t know this piece of legislation is also known as the Thought Crime Bill. And its frightening.
The bill defines “violent radicalization†as promoting an “extremist belief system.â€
So there you have it. We’re all Civil Liberties Extremists and therefore GUILTY in the eyes of our Government.
Full story:
November 29th, 2007 at 5:16 pmhttp://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/11/19/5320/
Peter Hoekstra and Erik Prince come from the same district in Michigan. That pretty much sums it up when we’re talking about extremists.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:24 pmTell you what, why don’t you disagree with the people who are actually responsible for interpreting the bill in practice on how to interpret it, then see how that works out in terms of how it is used. Sheesh.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 5:29 pm
The interpretation is as plain as day with regard to the lies spread by Joe Klein and Peter Hoekstra. So just shut up, troll. You have nothing to offer here. You are just another Bush bootlicking puke heading off the cliff with the rest of them. A lesser person.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:37 pmRead Glenn Greenwalds articles on the matter, pure brilliance.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?source=rss&aim=/opinion/greenwald/
November 29th, 2007 at 5:37 pmComment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Enough with your lies, puke. The quibbling over the meaning of persons is irrelevant. You and the liar Joe Klein are leaving about the part about persons believed to be not in the United States. Your pseudo-discussion does absolutely nothing to address what the passage actually says, which is that persons believed to be outside of the U.S. can be spied on without court warrants or court oversight.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:42 pmComment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Go read the Greenwald link posted in #46 and see the passage in question, which makes it absolutely clear that Klein, Hoekstra, and you are lying.
November 29th, 2007 at 5:43 pmComment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 5:35 pm
Here you go, puke. Eat some crow:
‘CLARIFICATION OF ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE OF NON-UNITED STATES PERSONS OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES’
November 29th, 2007 at 5:46 pmSec. 105A. (a) Foreign to Foreign Communications-
(1) IN GENERAL – Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, a court order is not required for electronic surveillance directed at the acquisition of the contents of any communication between persons that are not known to be United States persons and are reasonably believed to be located outside the United States for the purpose of collecting foreign intelligence information, without respect to whether the communication passes through the United States or the surveillance device is located within the United States.
JulieAnnie will eventually cheat on his current wife as well. His relationships all begin in the context of cheating on the current mate. That’s how it works.
November 29th, 2007 at 6:49 pmOT: Man, from profile you sure can see how low brow Hoekstra is. He appears to have no frontal lobe at all. Makes perfect sense.
November 29th, 2007 at 6:50 pm.
Is there a way to write a law that isn’t “up to interpretation”?
November 29th, 2007 at 6:51 pmI already posted the FISA fundamentals, why complicate the issue? Oh I know why, cuz it allows the pukes to break the law and justify it.
November 29th, 2007 at 6:53 pmI told you to read what a prominant liberal legal blogger posted on the topic. It’s a post that completely undercuts everything Greenwald, FDL, Kos and TP have posted on this matter.
If you can’t bring yourself to read that then don’t talk to me about having “nothing to offerâ€. Just stick your head back in the sand chump.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 7:03 pm
It does nothing of the sort. You’re wrong, why fight it?
November 29th, 2007 at 7:07 pmThe liberal law blogger who over the past 6 years has shown more insight into FISA that all the other bloggers cited here combined. Him.
So what am I lying about. Let’s hear it. Put your money where your mouth is you pissweak little pussy.
your opinions, like your opinions, are worthless.
November 29th, 2007 at 7:11 pmQuoting a post and adding a single line in reply that addresses nothing in the post, nor makes any relevant or in-context arguement can be achieved with about 20 lines of code in a script. Spam bots do it all the time.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 7:36 pm
Unfortunately for you, that’s all you’re worth. when you’re wrong, you’re wrong, and you don’t deserve any more than my one or two lines, dismissing you and showing what a fool you are. I’m sorry you’re that easy, but don’t blame me.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:07 pmFrosty: “Joe Klein = Hack”
Yes, he’s a hack; no question about it. But, he’s much worse than that. He’s a shameless propagandist who lies in service of power.
As far as this little jerk, Kilo is concerned, you can show him the actual text of the law which Klein lied about and he’s still not convinced. That should tell you something.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:19 pmKilo, we can tell by some of your posts that english is a second language for you, but I think the text of the law speaks for itself. You just need to learn to read, but I know it’s hard to read when your head is stuffed firmly up your own keester.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:21 pmLet’s just keep in mind that Joe Klein and his bosses knew before the 2004 election that Bush was lying through his teeth about the Plame affair and they didn’t think that the voting public needed to know this information to make an informed voting decision. Time has become an utter disgrace. There is absolutely no reason to buy one or read one exept to see what kind of propaganda the plutocracy is selling.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:25 pmSo I’ll be the foreigner and you be the guy playing dumb.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
You’re much better as the traitor. A natural, in fact.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:41 pmTwice you’ve been told I’m not an American citizen. Pay attention. This means there there is no scenario where it is possible for me to be a traitor to the US. You could accuse me of being the president and it would make as much sense. Nimrod.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 8:47 pm
yes, but you’ve lied so many times about so many things, I get confused. so, sorry, insurgent.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:04 pmA 2-liner response. Progress indeed.
Comment by Kilo — November 29, 2007 @ 10:04 pm
and nothing from you, I must have hit the target.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:17 pmhow easy is to scare the American people today…
November 30th, 2007 at 3:23 amLook a TRRORIST!
Where?!
Picka boo!
“Hoekstra attacks progressive bloggers as “civil liberties extremists,â€
Ahem.
“I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice!” – Barry Goldwater, 1963
November 30th, 2007 at 10:48 am