ThinkFast: November 29, 2007
ThinkFast: November 29, 2007
Juan Cole writes that at last night’s Republican presidential debate, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) blamed the “rise of Hitler on Ron Paul.” “John McCain equated those Americans who want to stop militarily occupying Iraq with Hitler-enablers. He actually said that, saying that it was ‘isolationism’ of a sort that allowed Hitler to come to power.” Watch it.
“Foreclosure filings have nearly doubled from a year ago and more people could lose their homes in 2008, according to a report released Thursday. In October, 224,451 foreclosure filings were reported nationwide, up 94 percent from October 2006.”
Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd (D-CT) said he plans to introduce legislation “that would rewrite portions of the bankruptcy code. His package will include language that would change the treatment of mortgage debt to help struggling property owners hold on to their homes.”
Congress is nearing agreement on an energy bill “that would boost fuel efficiency standards for vehicles and require vast increases in the use of biofuels.” Previous provisions in the bill, such as a requirement for utilities to use minimum amounts of renewable fuels and a rollback of the oil industry’s share of a tax break for manufacturers, seemed unlikely to be included.
“Twelve states, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, sued the Environmental Protection Agency yesterday for weakening regulations that for two decades have required businesses and industries to report the toxic chemicals they use, store and release.”
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced yesterday that ret. General James Jones, “a former NATO commander and Marine Corps commandant, will become a special U.S. envoy for Middle East security as part of a push for peace between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.”
Nearly 3,000 families will be forced out of FEMA trailers by next May when FEMA plans to “close all the trailer camps it runs for victims” of Hurricane Katrina. The trailers have been found to contain dangerous levels of formaldehyde.
The union representing Broadway stagehands and the league representing the theater’s owners and producers “announced a settlement last night, bringing an end to a strike that had shuttered most of Broadway for 19 days.”
And finally: Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) mom, Roberta, is 95 years old, but was only 91 in 2003 when she was ticketed for driving 112 mph, according to a new interview with People magazine. “It’s so dumb! … I got a ticket for driving 112 miles per hour, signed my name, and went on my way.” Also in the interview, Meghan, McCain’s daughter, confirms that she does her dad’s make-up. “I have his exact Casper the Ghost paleness, so I know what looks good,” she states.
What did we miss? Let us know in the comments section.
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Congress is nearing agreement on an energy bill “that would boost fuel efficiency standards for vehicles and require vast increases in the use of biofuels.†Previous provisions in the bill, such as a requirement for utilities to use minimum amounts of renewable fuels and a rollback of the oil industry’s share of a tax break for manufacturers, seemed unlikely to be included.
We’ve all heard the big auto ads showing troll like concern for ’safety’ over increased mpg. Big auto, don’t worry about my safety. I’ll take care of myself. Take care of fuel efficiency, or your market share will fall quicker than your stocks.
Mr. Dodd, how come tax breaks & renewable fuels are ‘off the table’?
Mr. Dodd?…
November 29th, 2007 at 9:11 amWhy is it that almost all references to Hitler come out of the mouth of a Republican these days? And whenever a progressive makes a Hitler reference (usually when making an observation about the creeping fascism in our country), he/she is shot down for it?
Oh, I forgot. IOKIYAR.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:15 amThis off of AFP
Considering that Bush came into power over six years ago, that one is pretty damning.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:16 amHillary Clinton planted a “mole”!
The Clinton camp can’t help but CHEAT. This is what to expect from another Clinton Presidency UNLESS you vote for someone else.
http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/11/hillary-clinton-plants-another-mole.html#links
November 29th, 2007 at 9:18 amForeclosures up to this point have been making the house-flippers very happy, but there will come a time (and we may already have reached it) where even the flippers won’t be interested, since the housing market will be so dead that they can’t make a profit.
So what will happen with a glut of empty homes?
November 29th, 2007 at 9:19 am“Foreclosure filings have nearly doubled from a year ago and more people could lose their homes in 2008, according to a report released Thursday. In October, 224,451 foreclosure filings were reported nationwide, up 94 percent from October 2006.â€
In before the trolls come in to proclaim that the economy is booming.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:19 amMy bad on #1, Senator Dodd is not the person to be asked my question.
On the other hand, I hope Mr. Dodd can make some headway into loosening or revising current bankruptcy law. With all the pending foreclosures, America is bound to see a dramatic increase in filings. Bushco has made filing bankruptcy much more difficult for average Americans, while still favoring corporate loopholes to remain viable.
This process needs to be fair & equitable to all parties, not just big business, particularly the airlines.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:20 amthat was a debate? it should have been on comedy central….ALL of these repugs are 100% JUNK!
November 29th, 2007 at 9:21 amAnd whenever a progressive makes a Hitler reference (usually when making an observation about the creeping fascism in our country), he/she is shot down for it?
Oh, I forgot. IOKIYAR.
Comment by missmolly — November 29, 2007 @ 9:15 am
Cause when we do it we’re comparing people (Bush/Cheney/neocons) to Hitler. When they do it, they’re comparing an abstract concept to Hitler (terrorism/Islamofascism).
November 29th, 2007 at 9:21 amspeaking of bush/hitler… its a well know FACT that gw’s grandpappy, prescott bush supplied HITLER and NAZI GERMANY with OVER HALF of their wartime iron and steel….
looks like the bushies have a lot more in common with hitler than everyone thinks…. (well in america today, not to many are doing any thinkning)
November 29th, 2007 at 9:23 amI watched the debate for comic relief. It was good to see McCain hammer Mittuns about waterboarding.
While I was watching, it occurred to me I haven’t seen anything of Michael Ware on the Conservative News Network. Have you? It was at that moment I realized that the MSM have been told to quit coverage of the Iraq invasion. Fox quit sometime in July. Now CNN has fallen into step. In fact, if you look at about the time the WH written ‘Patreaus report’ emerged, news coverage of the invasion abruptly ended.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:25 ammismolly,
you had me on the Hitler comment. Agree with you totally. I mean, like the Republicans, Hitler seems to be the type to endorse waterboarding.
But rewarding the housing market. Who the hell is flipping houses anymore these days? There are thousands of people who have already walked away from their deposits on new construction instead of taking on financial burdens. The only homes you can “flip” anymore are the million dollar homes because that market is insulated from the economic downturn.
What will happen with a glut of homes? Home prices will go down and people will eventually start to buy lower priced houses. I should also note foreclosures do NOT make people who flip houses happy. Thats ridiculous. Why would people who want to make a profit on rising home prices be happy about forclosures which drive down the price of homes?
November 29th, 2007 at 9:29 amNearly 3,000 families will be forced out of FEMA trailers by next May when FEMA plans to “close all the trailer camps it runs for victims†of Hurricane Katrina. The trailers have been found to contain dangerous levels of formaldehyde.
Timed, I’m sure, to coincide with the start of next year’s hurricane season–who knows, they might need those trailers–and you can’t put new people in unless you move the old people out.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:29 amI just finished having Thanksgiving with the troops, and their message to you is — the message of these brave men and women who are serving over there is, “Let us win. Let us win.â€
i’ve talked to a LOT of troops that have come back from iraq and they say the total opposite…. SHOCKER.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:30 amThe Communist News Network sure let a lot of Democratic party plants ask questions last night, but at least they spread it around betwen a Billary plant, a B. Hussein Obama plant, a Breck Girl plant and a union activist.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:31 am
is that because repugs cant handle truthiness?
yes it is.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:32 amThe Republicans are all scared (except Ron Paul) and desperate. All they can offer is the “fear” card. A vote for a democrat will invite more terrorsim.
Remember folks, 9/11 happened on Bush’s watch.
The only Dem I support is Kucinich. But he is ignored because he’s labeled a loon because he’s for “peace”
And Ron Paul is ignored or called a terrorist by Glen Beck (et al) because he doesnt suck up either to the Israeli Lobby.
When is this country going to wake up and see that this War on Terror is phony as hell.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:34 amThis so called ‘Hillary plant’ is bogus.
The guy’s a registered independent, has never made a campaign contribution to Clinton, but has to other ‘lesser’ candidates. He’s also a retired Brig. General.
But you Trolls go ahead and claim otherwise, you do that so well.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:35 amComment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:31 am
That is so funny. I guess you just got used to the canned / private campaign stops Bush would do. You know, the one’s that were closed to the public and only if you were a Bush supporter you were allowed in. No tough questions were asked and everybody enjoyed the kool aid.
Those days are gone. Questions from all americans should be asked to all candidates. Otherwise you’d just be getting a second helping of Kool aid.
Kudos to the retired Gen. that asked the question about gays in the military. Was he a plant as well?
November 29th, 2007 at 9:37 amComment by KYJurisDoctor — November 29, 2007 @ 9:18 am
I didn’t see the “debate” last night, and your link is the only source I’ve seen making the claim that Kerr was a plant, so I am basing my response on the possibility this is true.
I agree that Hillary shouldn’t be planting moles, but if General Kerr asked about gays in the military, I believe that question needed to be asked, since that’s an issue that Republicans are falling all over themselves trying to avoid.
One reason I didn’t watch the event last night (it’s just way to ridiculous to call it a debate) is because these staged little pageants are way too manipulated, filtered, sanitized, and spun to have any real meaning. And America has gotten so used to this because we have had a President for the past seven years who can’t appear anywhere unless he’s guaranteed that he will get only carefully vetted softball questions lobbed at him from a rah rah crowd that has been screened for loyalty. And you’re outraged because HILLARY manipulated an audience? Puh-leeze!
No candidate should be planting moles — either in their own audiences or in the other guy’s camp. If a candidate is worthy of being President, let him/her win without the cheap tricks. But please forgive me if I have a hard time working up any real outrage about this.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:38 amI’d just like to come out in favor of Huckabee’s plan to put Hillary on a rocket to Mars.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:38 amThe Communist News Network sure let a lot of Democratic party plants ask questions last night, but at least they spread it around betwen a Billary plant, a B. Hussein Obama plant, a Breck Girl plant and a union activist.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:31 am
I was thinking about this this morning. So what if the Republicans got questions from the democrats? Aren’t te Republicans supposed to be tough bad asses? Or are they too scared of some retired gay guy to be able to answer his questions?
November 29th, 2007 at 9:39 amMcCain looked idiotic is his comparison of Ron Paul to Adolph Hitler. Bush resembles Hitler more than anyone else yet no one even mentioned toxic Georgie’s name last night. I think they’re all trying to distance themselves from our own Hitler within.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:41 amSqueege,
November 29th, 2007 at 9:41 amI’m with you as long as Hyuckabbee is piloting the spaceship. Then we can finally determine if God made Mars, or just the Earth.
I was thinking about this this morning. So what if the Republicans got questions from the democrats? Aren’t te Republicans supposed to be tough bad asses? Or are they too scared of some retired gay guy to be able to answer his questions?
Comment by dim wit — November 29, 2007 @ 9:39 am
Pretty much sums it up, yes. Anyone asking a tough question is automatically a “plant”.
Notice also that our morning troll finds it impossible to comment on the debate without slandering the Democratic candidates with his coy little references, yet is always one of the first to whine about how Progressives won’t “debate” but resort to ad hominem attacks. Typically hypocritical troll.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:43 amMcCain was right. It was an attitude of isolationism and appeasement that allowed Hitler to rise to power. History proves that.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Ron Paul’s position on Iraq. Pulling our troops out of a civil war is not isolationism and it’s not appeasement.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:43 amThe Communist News Network sure let a lot of Democratic party plants ask questions last night, but at least they spread it around betwen a Billary plant, a B. Hussein Obama plant, a Breck Girl plant and a union activist.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Free speech endangers republican fascism, right, CHL? America is no place to expose the truth, according to the tighty righties. Well, what else can we expect from the party that supported and funded Hitler and Bin Laden?
November 29th, 2007 at 9:44 amCommunist News Network
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:44 am
You might want to check your facts – CNN actually stands for Cable News Network. If you can’t get a simple detail like that right, it’s obvious that all of your other arguments are similarly flawed.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:45 amZimzone, not to argue the Gen was a plant, but on CNN they reported he’s on some panel for the Clinton campaign regarding gay, etc issues. They also stated he’s a member of the Log Cabin Republicans.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:46 amEven when the Hillary plant’s microphone cut off, the host immediately gave him another one to allow him to finish.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:44 am
and you know this was a Hillary plany how, exactly? Just hauling more shit from your ass, CHL? More lies to support your original lies? Do you think that will work on us? we’re the thinkers, the intellectuals, you know, the dumb koolaid swillers belong to your side.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:46 amMcCain wants us all to be “Good Germans” to prevent… the, uh, the rise of… er, uh… Hell, even I can’t figure that one out.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:49 amThat comment about Dodd rebuilding bankrupcty code. That link don’t work. That is a great idea, I’d like to read more about it. up here in michigan foerclosures are skyrocketing. I think energy costs bank and credit card interest is way too high and causing serious problems for working class
November 29th, 2007 at 9:50 am“I’ve heard [Ron Paul] now in many debates talk about bringing our troops home, and about the war in Iraq and how it’s failed. And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II.”
What sort of impaired logic equates bringing troops home with “isolationism”?
Oh, and history “proves” nothing. Please stop misusing the word “prove.”
November 29th, 2007 at 9:52 amConcerning the graduated repression of the Nazi regime, the Reverend Martin Niemoller, in 1945, stated, to the effect:
First they came for the Communists,
November 29th, 2007 at 9:52 amand I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.
The Communist News Network sure let a lot of Democratic party plants ask questions last night, but at least they spread it around betwen a Billary plant, a B. Hussein Obama plant, a Breck Girl plant and a union activist.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Since I didn’t see the show, I can’t agree or disagree with your statement (except that I disagree with your wingnut labels for the Dem candidates).
But your claim gave me an idea that should work, and make for a much more interesting show.
Would a baseball game be worth watching if the pitcher, the catcher, the fielders, AND THE BATTER were all on the same team? My guess is that the pitcher would lob an easily hittable pitch to the batter and the fielders would happily ignore the ball while the batter strolled around the bases. This is what political “debates” have become.
So what if ALL the questions were asked by “plants” from the opposing party? Let Democrats select the questions to ask Republican candidates for their “debate”, and let Republicans select the questions to ask Democrats for theirs. No worry about covert moles — it would all be out in the open. Interesting questions would be asked of both sides, and people would actually be able to see how the candidates of their party would be able to handle themselves against the opposition should they receive their party’s nomination.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:52 amLouis (Michael J.Fox): “People are so thirsty for leadership they’ll crawl through the desert and when they find it’s only a mirage, they’ll drink the sand.”
President Shepherd (Michael Douglas): “People don’t drink the sand because they’re thirsty. They drink the sand because they don’t know the difference.”
Its been so long since America has witnessed true leadership.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:52 amAny debate about the republican debate is pretty pointless, since the debate itself is about choosing the individual who is least able to be nailed down on any issue and least represents the majority of voters.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:53 amand you know this was a Hillary plany how, exactly? Just hauling more shit from your ass, CHL? More lies to support your original lies? Do you think that will work on us? we’re the thinkers, the intellectuals, you know, the dumb koolaid swillers belong to your side.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 29, 2007 @ 9:46 am
Because the neoconservatives like CHL have poisoned democracy so much in this country that they can’t fathom the idea of a private citizen posing a challenging question to a candidate. Anyone with a dissenting opinion must be a plant or worse – an Islamofascist Stalinist.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:53 amcold_hard_left
They did answer his question
His question was would you allow gays to serve openly in the military.
He got a few people in support of don’t ask don’t tell. And then he got Romney dodging the question for about 2 minutes.
Zimzone
I’m with you as long as Hyuckabbee is piloting the spaceship. Then we can finally determine if God made Mars, or just the Earth.
Well played.
Mugsy
November 29th, 2007 at 9:53 amMcCain wants us all to be “Good Germans†to prevent… the, uh, the rise of… er, uh… Hell, even I can’t figure that one out.
I understood McCain’s Hitler reference, I don’t see what was so confusing about it.
Zimzone, not to argue the Gen was a plant, but on CNN they reported he’s on some panel for the Clinton campaign regarding gay, etc issues. They also stated he’s a member of the Log Cabin Republicans.
-Comment by Wilco
We may be talking about two different people here, Wilco. I was referring to the video question, not the guy with the microphone. I thought the guy with the mic grandstanded and elaborated his point at too great a length. I don’t care if he’s gay, he just seemed overbearing.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:54 amcoldhardleft sures likes his perverted facists don’t he. The more unamerican the republicans are, the more the rank and file facists like em.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:56 amZimzone
I was referring to the video question, not the guy with the microphone
Same dude.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:56 amComment by Squegeeboo — November 29, 2007 @ 9:53 am
Did Romney answer any of the questions he was asked? It seemed like everytime he spoke he just babbled on for awhile and then AC had to reask the question.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:58 amWhy would people who want to make a profit on rising home prices be happy about forclosures which drive down the price of homes?
Comment by dim wit — November 29, 2007 @ 9:29 am
There are two kind of flippers. The ones currently holding homes to flip are in a world of hurt. The flippers not holding and are waiting for the bottom of the housing market fall are drooling. This is like 1987-wait for the bottom and buy.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:59 am#35 “I’ve heard [Ron Paul] now in many debates talk about bringing our troops home, and about the war in Iraq and how it’s failed. And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II.â€
It’s also notable to point out that the US has been in Iraq far longer than it was in WW2. Perhaps isolationism is the way to make wars shorter.
WW2: Dec ‘41 – Aug ‘45 :: 45 months
November 29th, 2007 at 10:00 amIraq2: May ‘03 – Nov ‘07+ :: 55 months
Who the hell is flipping houses anymore these days?
Comment by dim wit — November 29, 2007 @ 9:29 am
Forgive me — I live in an area that’s been undergoing a great deal of growth, and for that reason we have been behind the rest of the country in getting hit with the recession.
But even though we have a lot of people moving here, we still have our fair share of foreclosures — mostly from people who overextended themselves with sub-prime loans. Because housing prices were still going up, house-flippers were pouncing on foreclosures until recently like starving dogs on table scraps.
But even here, the housing market has finally stalled. So while there was flipping activity here when it had died out in many other places, it’s pretty much died out here in North Carolina, too.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:00 amThe candidates that least represent the majority of voters is Ron Paul for the Republicans and Dennis Kucinich for the Democrats.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:56 am
And no doubt Rudy get your vote for representing the cross dressing segment of the voting public.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:01 amdim wit
Did Romney answer any of the questions he was asked?
He came out strongly against the Yankees. And his answer on the Confederate Flag was a good answer (for him)
November 29th, 2007 at 10:02 amMcCain was right. It was an attitude of isolationism and appeasement that allowed Hitler to rise to power. History proves that.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 9:25 am
Ironically Bush’s failed and utterly pointless adventure in Iraq will leave such a sour taste that surely it will drive an overreaction by the American people towards isolation at exactly the worst time for it. While Bush has bogged down our military in Iraq and greatly weakened it, he has encouraged Iran and North Korea to thumb their noses at us, knowing they can get away with it. And it has all happened because of Bush supporters just like you.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:03 amleftcoast: How right you are! We haven’t had good leadership for soooo long that we don’t remember what it is at this point. The one thing we are certain about is that we know that the Bush Cabal definitely IS NOT any form of leadership at all.
As for the number of states joining in the lawsuit against the EPA for relaxation of the rules for polluting, this number should be three times what it is and every state in this country should jump on board.
The lawsuit needs to be expanded to include the “boss” of the EPA, however, who would, in all cases, be GWBotch, the global warming “enabler”.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:04 amComparisions between Hitler and Saddam are phony. Unlike Saddam, Hitler actually invaded and conquered most of Europe in a very short time. Unlike Saddam, Hitler actually had an airforce and navy that worked.
Unlike Hitler, Saddam was a toothless dog that had been bottled up completely for the better part of a decade when Bush CHOSE to attack a country that had nothing nothing to do w/ 9/11, w/ an airforce and a navy better than Hitler’s.
Geez, righties, learn to read.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:04 amZim, I thought the guy in the audience was the guy from the video, no?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:05 amI want to know where McCain’s mother was able to drive 112 mph! Oh wait…she didn’t really get away with it, she got caught. Never mind…
November 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amWhile Bush has bogged down our military in Iraq and greatly weakened it, he has encouraged Iran and North Korea to thumb their noses at us, knowing they can get away with it. And it has all happened because of Bush supporters just like you.
Comment by VerbalKint — November 29, 2007 @ 10:03 am
Then there is Russia. The high price of oil is making them rich. They are now rebuilding (the former USSR) military that was out dated and rusting away. Way to go Buschco.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amAnd it has all happened because of Bush supporters just like you.
Comment by VerbalKint — November 29, 2007 @ 10:03 am
And don’t forget the Russians and Chinese. The Russians are rearming as fast as they can and the Chinese have been building up their military steadily for several years now.
We can thank Herr Brusch for a new arms race, too!
November 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amBush has created a global hostility and disrespect for this country and continues to do so. I’m amazed that he even goes through the motions of pretending to be peace oriented when he declared himself to be the “war president”. Every president does the “peace talk gig” before he’s tarred and feathered in the history books, as will be the case of Prez Botch.
The longer we remain as a presence in Iraq, the greater the reminder to the rest of the world that we are warmongering global imperialists. I’m not even sure how much respect we have left at this point with anyone but Sarkozy, Bush’s latest “puppet du jour”. He’s sure to be overthrown soon.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amThe “polls†you Libs like to quote so much answer this clearly. The candidates that least represent the majority of voters is Ron Paul for the Republicans and Dennis Kucinich for the Democrats.
Those two could quite possibly be the least compatible with the majority of voters. What I was referring to however was the huge elephant in the room that the republicans pretend is a coffee table: Bush has ****ed this country sideways and everyone on the republican side either has in irreconcilable history of supporting the path of destruction or is still unwaveringly supporting the same trends.
The right-wing religious fanatic money-grubbing science-hating racist sexist classist bastards have had their day – and their day is done.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:07 amTRoS: And can you blame any country for realizing that joining the arms race provides a level of parity for them with imperialistas like us?
Just heard that the Chinese (who own l/3 of our national debt) are joining in. Our reliance on them for items of personal sustenance will take us to the ground when the Red Storm begins to gather momentum.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:09 amSqueege, I agree. Romney was a bit of a tool. He did, however, do a good job on the flag.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:10 amFrankly, I think Huckabee ran away with it last night.
The right-wing religious fanatic money-grubbing science-hating racist sexist classist bastards have had their day – and their day is done.
Comment by Bush is a four letter word — November 29, 2007 @ 10:07 am
I fear if Hilliary is the dem nominee that may not be true. I know real bible thumpers and they will hold their nose and vote for Rudy if the dems pick Hillary.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:11 am#61 Even the Repuke pundits following the debate mentioned the fact the the sitting president’s name never was mentioned. The Repukes know that this president has screwed this country to kingdom come so they are back-peddling away from his toxicity.
Changing the subject here just for a moment but has anyone heard what Sibel Edmonds is doing with her story? No doubt that she has information critical to destroying Bush and Giuliani vis-a-vis 911. Maybe she’s waiting for Rudy to become the “Candidate” before taking him and the White House down the tubes?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:11 amMcCain belongs in an assisted living center…Strapped to the bed, and drooling on the linens he may make more sense.
WHAT LOOSERS!!!
November 29th, 2007 at 10:12 amMugsy
McCain wants us all to be “Good Germans†to prevent… the, uh, the rise of… er, uh… Hell, even I can’t figure that one out.
I understood McCain’s Hitler reference, I don’t see what was so confusing about it.
Comment by Squegeeboo — November 29, 2007 @ 9:53 am
November 29th, 2007 at 10:12 amMcCain is saying to Paul that voicing opposition to Bush’s war is equivalent to those who turned a blind eye to the rise of Hitler. So Paul needs to be “a good German” and turn a blind eye to Bush’s fascist war mongering so Bush can… uh… fight the rise of…? I dunno, you explain that one to me. I’m stumped.
#11. cold_hard_left,
Hilter and Nazis rose to power because of the humiliation that Germans received at the hands of allied forces after they were defeated in WWI.
Germany was forced to pay reparations for the cost of WWI, which created resentements among Germans.
Nazis played the national card and they won and took over…Hilter sought to punish France,which was a recipient of these reparations.
But for Mccain to accuse Ron Paul of aiding Hitlerism because he is asking to bring our soldiers from unwinnable civil war in Iraq,is crazy.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:12 amComment by Veritas — November 29, 2007 @ 10:09 am
Whether they feel a need for parity or it’s just an excuse to muscle up, the result is the same. Herr Brusch has re-ignited an international arms race w/ his blustering incompetency. He’s weakened the dollar, exhausted our military, isolated the US, and given license to countless politicos around the world to quash their opponents in the name of “fighting terraists”.
Ye Gods, it’s the veritable Grand Slam of Stupidity.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:14 amWilco
Frankly, I think Huckabee ran away with it last night.
Almost any time you allow Huckabee to speak in public he runs away with it.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:14 amWilco,
You’re right. I didn’t realize Kerr was the same guy.
One thing I took away from watching last night is that Romney likes to act tough, but rarely is able to articulate a clear position on anything. Anyone that thinks having Blackwater on their ’side’ is impressive needs a wake up call.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:14 amI’m stumped.
Comment by Mugsy — November 29, 2007 @ 10:12 am
So you try to do a good deed and help a drowning person, and now yer in the water too… I’ll watch this one from dry land.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:15 amAnyone that thinks having Blackwater on their ’side’ is impressive needs a wake up call.
Comment by Zimzone — November 29, 2007 @ 10:14 am
Isn’t Mittens the one who said “a bombardment of some sorts” might be in order for Iran? And he’d have to check w/ his lawyers first?
But… Tweety did say Mittens has “shoulders to die for”…
November 29th, 2007 at 10:17 amJoefriday: I’m asking myself just how Rudy became the frontrunner in the first place – something which every American should be asking right now. He rose from obscurity during 911 as though he was the “appointed successor”. I wonder how much of that was part of the inside job?
Rudy is perhaps the least qualified candidate up on that stage yet he is the frontrunner of the Repukes. What does that tell you about their family values platform? I think it paints a pretty hypocritical picture of them myself to be supporting a thug who just happened to be at the right place at the right time.
It could also be said that Rudy was at the wrong place at the wrong time because of how he botched things on 911 as well…..the bogus radios he gifted the firefighters with, his Hampton trysts which the NY taxpayers paid for, and his horrendous treatment of his own children during his viagra/testosterone period with Judith Nathan.
Add to that the fact that he helped Bernie Kerick to falsify his homeland security app, had a business partnership with the man, and now sits on the Board of Directors of the manufacturer of Oxycontin who intentionally defrauded the public with their claim of “non-addictibility” of the drug.
Rudy’s a total fraud and when he attacked Mitt last night he only looked like a fool and a bully. Did anyone get a look at his posture and face when Mitt was responding? ewwww…..This guy reeks organized crime!
Did McCain look especially pale and sickly last night or was it the pixel ratio on my TV monitor? I suspect that his cancer has returned by the looks of him.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:18 amThe flippers not holding and are waiting for the bottom of the housing market fall are drooling. This is like 1987-wait for the bottom and buy.
Comment by Joefriday — November 29, 2007 @ 9:59 am
I don’t know if you’re attempting to prove or disprove my comment, but to some degree your point is what I am trying to say.
House prices will fall. There will be a bottom. People will buy houses at lower prices. With more demand, housing prices will again start to rise and the housing market will recover. This is basic economics.
Will it suck in the meantime? Absolutely. Will it hurt some people more than others? Yes. It is unfortunate, but no one can say it wasn’t forseeable.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:18 amHey Veritas,
Your comments about Rudy are so true.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:21 amMan, what a crook.
Makes Nixon look like a petty thief.
Mugsy
I dunno, you explain that one to me. I’m stumped.
McCain was saying that American Isolationism was one of the major reasons that Hitler, and Nazi Germany, became the power that it was. He then claimed Ron Paul is an isolationist, due to his views before and during the Iraq war.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:22 amCan we waterboard Rudy, now?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:22 amSo there was the one question, were a few of them told Ron Paul, that the reason why we have to stay in Iraq as compared to Vietnam is because a bunch of the Islamic insurgents/terrorists over there have claimed they want to bring the fight to America, and that wasn’t the case in Vietnam.
I was hoping he would respond with this simple two word rebuttal:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:24 am“Domino Theory”
Squeege: I agree with you. Mike Huckabee looked mighty impressive last night. If they’d only permit him to speak more but we can thank the MSM for that – they’re trying their damnest to select the candidates who will run for President for us but they will fail.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:25 amMugsy & Squeege: I’m wondering what the heck McCain meant by his comment. No doubt he is doing same today himself. He was attempting to besmerch Ron Paul’s popularity and call him meaningless names. I get the implication but it’s a totally bogus one. I’m wondering if McCain is undergoing covert chemotherapy treatments?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:27 amRon Paul could have had some zingers ready but he did disappoint on that point. Interesting that Ron Paul is not considering a run from the Indy side of things when he fails to get the Repuke nod.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:28 am“Your comments about Rudy are so true.
Man, what a crook.
Makes Nixon look like a petty thief.”
Comment by Kay
Remember during the ‘00 election, when Bush and his followers held up three splayed fingers to represent a “w?” Now it represents the three worst presidents in American history: Nixon, Reagan, and Bush.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:28 amHe then claimed Ron Paul is an isolationist, due to his views before and during the Iraq war.
Comment by Squegeeboo — November 29, 2007 @ 10:22 am
And yet Brusch has managed to isolate the US to an incredible degree in just a few short years. Ironies abound.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:29 am#82 I don’t see how Rudy can stay in the lead with all of the corruption charges being bantered about in his personal life. How can the Rethugs prop themselves up as the party of “family values” with a thrice married adulterer who defrauded the people of New York by having them foot the bill for his trysts?
By the time Rudy’s Suitcase of Horrors is outed, he’ll be as toxic as GWBotch so no one will take the chance of adding him to their ticket.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:30 amComment by dim wit — November 29, 2007 @ 10:18 am
November 29th, 2007 at 10:30 amWe both agree. I used to invest in real estate and still own some rent houses.
At least it shows he is genuine and doesn’t just attack the front-runners like most candidates would.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 10:29 am
Yer fingers must have slipped on the keyboard (Lord knows what you’ve been using your hands for…). Let me fix that for ya.
“At least he KNOWS he’s A GENUINE FOOL…”
There, all better! You can thank me later.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:31 am“the reason why we have to stay in Iraq as compared to Vietnam is because a bunch of the Islamic insurgents/terrorists over there have claimed they want to bring the fight to America, and that wasn’t the case in Vietnam.”
Their ability do anything here is about the same as it was during Vietnam.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:31 am#82 – “Rudy will not be the Republican front runner for long, although he may end up on the ticket as VP.” Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 10:27 am
That would be a good thing! It would ensure that a Democrat is President in 2008!
November 29th, 2007 at 10:31 amRudy will not be the Republican front runner for long, although he may end up on the ticket as VP.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 10:27 am
does it really matter to you who gets crushed in a Dem landslide?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:32 amI fear if Hilliary is the dem nominee that may not be true. I know real bible thumpers and they will hold their nose and vote for Rudy if the dems pick Hillary.
Comment by Joefriday — November 29, 2007 @ 10:11 am
And there are a lot of us who will hold our noses and vote for Hil if Rudy is the GOP nominee.
All that means is that everybody will be going into the voting booth holding their nose.
C’mon, people — as Molly Ivins said, “WE are the deciders!” If we don’t want to have to choose between Rudy and Hillary, we need to act instead of accepting the coronation of these two as inevitable.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:32 amHi Kay – Good to see you. I have a lot of family and friends in New York and they abhore Rudy. The Rudy which the whoring mainstream media presents IS NOT the Rudy they know. It would appear that Rudy’s house of cards is beginning to crumble with his personal life under attack, his defrauding the New York taxpayers to pay for his lavish adultering lifestyle (what a kick in the face that is to people!), his now-exposed problems in handling 911, etc. I think Rudy’s having a Howard Dean “scream” right now.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:33 amVeritas
Squeege: I agree with you.
HA!!! No take backsies.
Mike Huckabee looked mighty impressive last night. If they’d only permit him to speak more but we can thank the MSM for that – they’re trying their damnest to select the candidates who will run for President for us but they will fail.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:33 amHe almost always looks impressive, and he did some good things from what I’ve read while Governor. But he’s also a hard core Christian Fundy, so I don’t think I could ever vote for him for President, maybe VP, but not President.
Missmolly: I don’t know about you but I’m not sure that I see a candidate worthy of the office which is why I feel certain that some knight will come riding out of the Independent side of things and do a little jousting in the eleventh hour.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:34 amWhy is it that almost all references to Hitler come out of the mouth of a Republican these days? And whenever a progressive makes a Hitler reference (usually when making an observation about the creeping fascism in our country), he/she is shot down for it?
Oh, I forgot. IOKIYAR.
Comment by missmolly — November 29, 2007 @ 9:15 am
It’s the other way around. The incidence of Repubs mentioning Hitler has increased since it became a common refrain of Dems. Which is only fair, since Dems share so many ideas with Hitler’s socialist party. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 10:35 amClearly, Huckabee is going to win; just look at the odds.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:35 amWhen was the last time a man from Hope lost?
missmolly
C’mon, people — as Molly Ivins said, “WE are the deciders!†If we don’t want to have to choose between Rudy and Hillary, we need to act instead of accepting the coronation of these two as inevitable.
I was on another board a few days ago watching a Ron Paul debate spin out of control. The only comment worth a hoot in the entire thread was a response something along these lines:
November 29th, 2007 at 10:36 amGuy 1: “I just can’t wait to see all you Ron Paul supports trying to rally to him again in 2012 when he gets blown out of the 2008 primary”
Guy 2(response):”And I just can’t wait for you to start complaining in 2009 about how there was only two people to vote for in the election, and they were both the same, so it’s not your fault.”
Squeege: I wouldn’t vote for Mike – just saying how impressive he sounded. He’s still a hard core Fundy which makes his personal mindset extremely frightening. I just was elated to see that, contrary to what the MSM would have us believe, the race is still on and not just between Mitt and Rudy.
I don’t yet see a candidate I’d vote for, unfortunately.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:36 am#97 – “The incidence of Repubs mentioning Hitler has increased since it became a common refrain of Dems.” Comment by upright left — November 29, 2007 @ 10:35 am
Which increased only since it became a common refrain of the Reps before that. Which is only fair since the Reps share so many ideas with Mussolini’s Fascist party! ;-)
November 29th, 2007 at 10:37 amcold_hard_left: How can you say that when there are now 38% registered Independents and only 24% registered Repukes?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:37 amcoldhardleft: Besides, registering Indy right now just brings a power bloc of voters to the conversation. It restores power to the people when this group of voters has overtaken the number of republicans. It will be the swing voters who determine the next president.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:39 am#103 – “How can you say that when there are now 38% registered Independents and only 24% registered Repukes?” Comment by Veritas — November 29, 2007 @ 10:37 am
Because right-whiners don’t pay attention to statistics, unless they support their pre-judged views. At which point they are the most relevant statistics in the world and everyone else should just shut the he!! up.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:39 amBasically, with such a large chunk of voters who are “unaffiliated”, it almost makes the Republican candidate look irrelevant. And, if this growing bloc of voters (38%) is added to the 36% registered dems, then it’s a “slam dunk”for the Dems.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:40 am“Juan Cole writes that at last night’s Republican presidential debate, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) blamed the “rise of Hitler on Ron Paul.â€
I guess it’s ok to print inaccuracies as long as it’s a quote from another source. McCain didn’t blame Ron Paul for the rise of Hitler. At least TP did clarify it somewhat with the following sentence. Maybe small inaccuracies don’t count anymore. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 10:41 amWe’re talking 74% here, folks…..so it would behoove the Dems to thoroughly consider whom they put up to run on their ticket. They could either turn off this large group of I’s or rein them back in. It will be up to the Dems to make the right choice if they want the swing votes.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:42 ammissmolly,
I’m picturing holding my nose as I vote.
Maybe we should all do it, regardless of the candidate. It would send an unmistakable message to Congresscritters that, at this point, your best is not good enough.
America wants CHANGE, not ‘experience’.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:42 amIt was an attitude of isolationism and appeasement that allowed Hitler to rise to power. History proves that.
Comment by cold_hard_left
Yeah, right. Volkswagen and other huge German corporations, just like the breaking between communists and socialdemocrats after 1929 European crisis had nothing to do with that.
Hey, it is more simple those two words you said. You can come up with a nice little song.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:43 amread this about Rudy the Phony :
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11958
November 29th, 2007 at 10:43 amIn that sense, I guess this next election is up to the Dems to lose by their choice of Candidate.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:43 amKay: Thanks for the link. Another Rudy, the Phony, piece of evidence! I was wondering if when Rudy alluded to his personal round-the-clock security (because people were after him??? A little paranoia, maybe?) if he meant that the $36,000 went to his goomba, Bernie?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:45 amHe almost always looks impressive, and he did some good things from what I’ve read while Governor. But he’s also a hard core Christian Fundy, so I don’t think I could ever vote for him for President, maybe VP, but not President.
Comment by Squegeeboo — November 29, 2007 @ 10:33 am
Huckabee only looks impressive because of the company he was keeping on that stage. Huckabee is a far right conservative. He opposes gay marriage or even civil unions. He supports Gitmo and the (un)fair tax,. He also rejects science in supporting creationism over evolution. He also justifies the death penalty while saying abortion doctors are criminals. Simply put, he’s a republican.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:46 amIn that sense, I guess this next election is up to the Dems to lose by their choice of Candidate.
Comment by Veritas
On one of the MSNBC shows Tuesday? they had a poll showing that in a head to head natl poll, Hillary gets beaten by the top 4 Rep candidates.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:47 amThat’s a huge shift!
However, both Obama and Edwards beat them all.
I think the Dems will find a way to lose the election by nominating Hillary. It’s entirely possible.
Which is only fair, since Dems share so many ideas with Hitler’s socialist party. ;)
Comment by upright left
Nazi = Fascism = No democracy.
Before the rise of Hitler, German Chancellor Brüning shut down the German constitution.
Dems = democracy.
Can we ask for another bag of trolls?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:50 amOn one of the MSNBC shows Tuesday? they had a poll showing that in a head to head natl poll, Hillary gets beaten by the top 4 Rep candidates.
That’s a huge shift!
However, both Obama and Edwards beat them all.
I think the Dems will find a way to lose the election by nominating Hillary. It’s entirely possible.
Comment by Wilco — November 29, 2007 @ 10:47 am
and next week that poll will show the opposite. please, who’s going to vote for a repig?
November 29th, 2007 at 10:57 amLefty Patriot
November 29th, 2007 at 11:00 amwho’s going to vote for a repig?
The south, and large sections of the mid and south west.
Which is only fair, since Dems share so many ideas with Hitler’s socialist party. ;)
Comment by upright left
Nazi = Fascism = No democracy.
Before the rise of Hitler, German Chancellor Brüning shut down the German constitution.
Dems = democracy.
Can we ask for another bag of trolls?
Comment by Juan C. — November 29, 2007 @ 10:50 am
C’mon, bud, you must have more integrity than to deny that Hitler shared many views with today’s libs. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:05 amWouldn’t say Hitler, but what about Bush vs STALIN.
Any similarities?
November 29th, 2007 at 11:07 amAnd now for some comic relief …
This isn’t mentioned in the post, but after yesterday’s rantings from Billo about the great “victory” in The War on Christmas, I found a CNN interview with Laura Bush on the subject of the White House Christmas Tree to be particularly entertaining. Enjoy.
(BTW, I tried to find a link, but couldn’t, dammit!). This commentary came from a trusted friend who saw it:
I saw Laura Bush this morning showing off the WH Christmas tree. Decorated with tiny “white” lights and ornaments representing the National Parks – not a baby Jesus in sight. She also said that this year’s WH cookies will be shaped like forest animals – Moose, fox, eagle, etc…
What??? No Baby Jesus…???
Oh, the humanity. ;o)
Wonder when Billo is going to declare the White House the next Enemy in the War on Christmas…?
November 29th, 2007 at 11:10 amWouldn’t say Hitler, but what about Bush vs STALIN.
Any similarities?
Comment by drtichy — November 29, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Avoiding the question? Shocking! ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:10 amUL – “today’s libs” have nothing in common with Hitler.
Unlike our National Embarrassment.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:12 amC’mon, bud, you must have more integrity than to deny that Hitler shared many views with today’s libs. ;)
Comment by upright left — November 29, 2007 @ 11:05 am
OK — just for fun, and because it’s been a slow morning for me, could you provide a list?
November 29th, 2007 at 11:12 am121 – Ah – found the link: http://www.cnn.com/video/?iref=videoglobal
Go get ‘er, Billo!!!!!
Heheh!
November 29th, 2007 at 11:17 amOK — just for fun, and because it’s been a slow morning for me, could you provide a list?
Comment by missmolly — November 29, 2007 @ 11:12 am
I don’t have as much free time as you aparrently, but just a few: govt taking inherited wealth, mass redistribution of wealth, using class differences to divide people, strong central govt, limiting ownership of newspapers, etc. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:26 amC’mon, bud, you must have more integrity than to deny that Hitler shared many views with today’s libs. ;)
Comment by upright left — November 29, 2007 @ 11:05 am
As opposed to the actual techniques of the Big Lie, torture and fear-mongering the Right has borrowed completely from the 3rd reich, not to mention the bloodlust and disregard for troops that Bushco is known for world-wide. Hitler may have shared “views” with “today’s libs”, but he is fully the model for today’s conservofascists currently destroying the USA from the confines of the White House.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:29 amgovt taking inherited wealth, mass redistribution of wealth, using class differences to divide people, strong central govt, limiting ownership of newspapers, etc. ;)
Aren’t you speaking of Buchco? These are all things your side is guilty of. Unitary executive? Please, once again, you’ve proven your ifnorance of facts and history. Keep it up, you’ll never see a majority again as long as you live.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:33 am“As opposed to the actual techniques of the Big Lie, torture and fear-mongering the Right has borrowed completely from the 3rd reich, not to mention the bloodlust and disregard for troops that Bushco is known for world-wide.”
That’s a matter of opinion, but congratulations on coming oh so close to actually admitting lib similarities! ;)
“Hitler may have shared “views†with “today’s libs,”
November 29th, 2007 at 11:34 amComment by Lefty Patriot — November 29, 2007 @ 11:29 am
> I dunno, you explain that one to me. I’m stumped.
McCain was saying that American Isolationism was one of the major reasons that Hitler, and Nazi Germany, became the power that it was. He then claimed Ron Paul is an isolationist, due to his views before and during the Iraq war.
Comment by Squegeeboo — November 29, 2007 @ 10:22 am
But consider the context. Voters don’t identify Paul as being an “isolationist” (though he may be), they identify him as the only Republican that disapproves of the war in Iraq.
McCain is criticizing Paul for criticizing the war. “Hitler appeasers” weren’t vocal critics of anything. They were the people that DIDN’T speak out.
McCain didn’t tell Paul he should stop endorsing “isolationism”, he went after him because he’s not being “a good German” and falling in line with the rest of the GOP.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:37 am“haring views” is one thing, UL.
Our Beloved Leader creating the Fourth Reich is quite another, thank you.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:37 amDamn typos! That should be “Sharing views.” :o{
November 29th, 2007 at 11:38 amgovt taking inherited wealth, mass redistribution of wealth, using class differences to divide people, strong central govt, limiting ownership of newspapers, etc. ;)
Aren’t you speaking of Buchco? These are all things your side is guilty of. Unitary executive? Please, once again, you’ve proven your ifnorance of facts and history. Keep it up, you’ll never see a majority again as long as you live.
Comment by Lefty Patriot — November 29, 2007 @ 11:33 am
What’s that? Bush is for taking money from the wealthy? Well, dang, bud, run right out and tell all your lib buddies, because they think he is unfairly aiding the wealthy. Half the rants on this blog are solved! Excellent job, bud. And that newspaper thing (media now)? I’m almost certain that your fellow libs are calling for limiting ownership of media outlets. Remember the recent post about minority/women owners? Again, you can solve a huge problem by letting libs know about their confusion in this area. All in all a great day for ya, bud! ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:42 amyou must have more integrity than to deny that Hitler shared many views with today’s libs. ;)
Comment by upright left
Well, first, I would like to know what a lib is to you. I live outside the US, which means that my left side of the political spectre reaches farther than it is allowed in the US.
And about my integrity, well, I’m not defending a President who blows up civilians.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:45 amMugsy
McCain is criticizing Paul for criticizing the war. “Hitler appeasers†weren’t vocal critics of anything. They were the people that DIDN’T speak out.
You are confusing Hitler appeasers within Germany to those out side of Germany. The ones inside of Germany didn’t speak out.
The ones out side of Germany either said, it’s not our problem, or, we don’t want to get involved because it will create an armed conflict.
McCain didn’t tell Paul he should stop endorsing “isolationismâ€, he went after him because he’s not being “a good German†and falling in line with the rest of the GOP.
McCain’s direct quote seems to disagree with your ‘interpretation’:
“McCain: . . . I just want to also say that Congressman Paul, I’ve heard him now in many debates talk about bringing our troops home, and about the war in Iraq and how it’s failed.
And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II. We allowed…
McCain: We allowed — we allowed Hitler to come to power with that kind of attitude of isolationism and appeasement.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:45 amyou must have more integrity than to deny that Hitler shared many views with today’s libs. ;)
Comment by upright left
“Well, first, I would like to know what a lib is to you. I live outside the US, which means that my left side of the political spectre reaches farther than it is allowed in the US.”
That’ll take a little more time than I have just now, bud. I assumed, incorrectly apparently, that you had greater understanding of U.S. political positions than that. I’ll be happy to address that later (disclaimer necessary in anticipation of lib accusations of hit and run posting).
“And about my integrity, well, I’m not defending a President who blows up civilians.”
Comment by Juan C. — November 29, 2007 @ 11:45 am
Well how about that, bud, we have something in common after all. Neither am I defending any such thing. ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 11:53 amComment by upright left — November 29, 2007 @ 11:26 am
“govt taking inherited wealth”
– Nah, we don’t advocate taking inherited wealth — or at least not all of it. We just believe in taxing it fairly instead of giving the Paris Hiltons of the world a free ride. That’s a big difference from Hitler taking all the wealth of the Jews to finance his military activities.
“mass redistribution of wealth”
– No, that’s not us. And it’s not the conservatives either. That’s the Communists.
“using class differences to divide people”
– Not us, either. The Republicans have created the biggest disparity between the “haves” and the “have nots” in our lifetime and then accuse the Dems of “class warfare” whenever we point this out. We aren’t doing the dividing — the neocons are.
“strong central govt”
– It ain’t us who’s been amassing the dictatorial powers.
“limiting ownership of newspapers”
– By “limiting ownership” I assume you mean “creating some room in the marketplace for voices other than the big business conglomerates sympathetic to the Republican viewpoint.” That’s hardly Hitleresque.
What about other Hitler views? Do you see liberals agreeing with his positions on nationalism, racism, homosexuality, abortion, checks and balances in government, personal freedoms, democracy, intellectualism, etc.?
November 29th, 2007 at 11:53 amYeah, Squeege?
So – what’s your point? We have allowed LOTS of bad things to go on, and even aided and abetted the evildoers:
We allowed Kim Jong Il to acquire nukes.
We allowed Saddam Hussein to slaughter millions of his people when he was our bosom buddy.
We allowed Osama bin Laden to become a power in Afghanistan.
We allow the Saudis to trample the rights of their people.
Etc. etc. etc.
And on and on and on – we allowed all of this to go on because it suited our interests – exactly like the Iraq war suits the interests of BushCo and Big Oil.
“Freedom” and “Democracy” has squat to do with it. It’s all about PROFIT.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:55 amLeftside Annie
So – what’s your point?
I didn’t really have one. I was just explaining McCain’s comment.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:59 amNeither am I defending any such thing. ;)
Comment by upright left
I have never read from you any complain, protest or statement against the situation that the present US admin had/has brought to Iraqis. That tells a lot more than anything you can write about “libs”.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:02 pmI thought that Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh and Prescott Bush are the ones that helped Hitler in his rise to power.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:04 pmI thought that Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh and Prescott Bush are the ones that helped Hitler in his rise to power.
Comment by JPV
You can add the Vatican to that list.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:07 pmSenate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd (D-CT) said he plans to introduce legislation “that would rewrite portions of the bankruptcy code.
Hopefully Dodd will do something about the fact that so many people have to declare bankruptcy because of medical and health isues. Right now these people are prohibited from declaring bankruptcy to discharge the debts they can’t pay because their insurance companies wouldn’t pay for treatment they need to live.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:20 pmcold hard left: “McCain was right. It was an attitude of isolationism and appeasement that allowed Hitler to rise to power. History proves that.”
I think it’s time for conservatives who share this view to actually go back and read political opinions from the 30’s. The fact is that it was republicans who argued against any involvement with what was going on in Europe. Liberals in America wanted to do something about the holocaust. Liberals were outraged with the invasions and annexations of Poland, France and other countries. Conservatives argued that it was none of our business. Having pointed that out, I think it’s unfair to blame modern libertarians like Ron Paul for that. Libertarians would have agreed with WWII once we were attacked and war had been declared on us by both Germany and Japan.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:26 pmupright left, your opinion regarding the myth that Hitler shared the views of today’s Democrats is absurd, simple-minded and misguided as usual, but if you knew thing one about history, you would know that almost every autocratic despot in the history of civilization has targeted whatever the current version of “liberals” were in his society. One of the first groups Hitler’s fascists rounded up and put in prison camps were liberals, college professors and intellectuals.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:31 pm“mass redistribution of wealthâ€
The biggest redistribution of wealth in the history of human civilization has recently happened right under our noses when republicans took hundreds of billions of working class money for the Social Security system and gave it to our nation’s wealthiest individual families.
“govt taking inherited wealthâ€
Sorry, stupid, but this was republican Teddy Roosevelt’s idea and it was completely consistent with most of the Founding Fathers, who did not want to see a European-style “landed aristocracy” set up in our country.
“limiting ownership of newspapersâ€
Unregulated capitalism always results in monopoly. Maybe you haven’t noticed – repubs are the ones pushing unregulated capitalism.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:37 pmAbout the Hitler enablers – how come we forget that the environment for the rise of Hitler was planted by the post-WWI sanctions which ran Germany into the ground ?
Can a parallel be made between the nation crushing of post WWI and the nation crushing that we have been doing in the middle east for 50 years ? Admittedly, it isn’t a 1 to 1 argument, but the kernel of truth is there.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:50 pmMaplestreet, I would argue that what happened in Germany was not a result of economic hard times as much as they were the result of a demagogue taking advantage of hard times to play on the fears and prejudices of the people.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:53 pmHuckabee only looks impressive because of the company he was keeping on that stage. Huckabee is a far right conservative. He opposes gay marriage or even civil unions.
He also lobbied for and gained the release of a rapist from prison who then went on to rape another woman and kill her. I don’t think a presidential candidate could survive that kind of publicity. Our “liberal” MSM has refused to publish this information so it’s going to take a paid commercial to get this information out to the public.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:53 pmColonel, thank you for your input.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:54 pmMaplestreet, I would argue that what happened in Germany was not a result of economic hard times as much as they were the result of a demagogue taking advantage of hard times to play on the fears and prejudices of the people.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper
Sounds a lot like our current administration, doesn’t it!
November 29th, 2007 at 12:55 pmcold hard left: “Hitler was head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. He considered himself a socialist, and was one by the evidence of his writings and the his economic policies.”
Again, a simple-minded, sophomoric argument based on the power of branding. The conservative Australian Prime Minister who was just ousted heads something called the “Liberal Party.” Does that make him a “liberal,” Einstien? Besides, what the hell is your point. What democrat today is a “socialist?” There is only one member of congress who even uses this term when speaking of his political philosophy. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont refers to himself as a “democratic socialist” similar to politicians all across western Europe.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:57 pmupright left, your opinion regarding the myth that Hitler shared the views of today’s Democrats is absurd, simple-minded and misguided
This is the current RNC talking point. We are going to hear it ad nausium from here to eternity.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThanks Juan! Right back at you.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:58 pmBilbo: “This is the current RNC talking point. We are going to hear it ad nausium from here to eternity.”
Yes and it’s strictly for dummies who have no real understanding or appreciation for history. History for Dummies – conservative style.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:04 pmCold Hard Left: Stalin was also the leader of the communist party. Opening gulags in Syberia and killing millions of Russians was certainly not the economic idelogy behind Engels and Marx communism.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:10 pmC_H_L – it’s too bad U.S. Republicans conservatives like you don’t call yourselves what you should:
FASCISTS.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:13 pmcold hard left, if you actually took the time to go back and read the link you provided as I did, you would possibly notice that he breaks socialism down into three distict branches, the first of which is “democratic socialism,” but then goes on to discuss the more autocratic forms and completely ignores the first.
Now, I would remind you of two glossed-over facts: 1. Hitler developed strategic relationships between his government and large German corporations. 2. Hitler appointed a “Reich-Bishop” to establish a national religion. These two important aspects of Hitler’s government are completely at odds with ANY kind of socialism, not just democratic socialism, where people still have the right to vote for the government they want. I would remind you that the current Prime Minister of France, Nicolas Sarkosy, whom your cult-leaders seem to like, runs a democratic socialist government.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:14 pmMost U.S. Socialists don’t call themselves “Socialists†anymore. They don’t even call themselves “Liberal.†Now they call themselves “Progressive.â€
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 1:07 pm
Progressivism does not equal Socialism.
These are two seperate schools of political thought.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:21 pmCommunism almost always results in wide-spread oppression.
Comment by cold_hard_left
Almost always? Please provide just a single example of a communist country as described by Marx. Good luck on that one.
Now, imagine you want to socialize your economy in some measure but that’s a very bad idea for the promoters of savage capitalism. What do you think will happen? Hint: Nicaragua, Iran, Cuba, Chile.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:22 pmCommunism almost always results in wide-spread oppression.
Comment by cold_hard_left — November 29, 2007 @ 1:13 pm
If people are oppressed, its not communism. The old Soviet Union could claim to be a communist nation all they wanted. However, despite their claims, they were never true communists.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:24 pmCHL – As RHF so succinctly pointed out, I do indeed understand exactlywhat a fascist is.
And you, your Beloved Leader and the rest of today’s Republican Party members ARE indeed fascists – in every sense of the word.
On the other hand, again, as many posters here have correctly pointed out, your assertion that progressivism/liberalism = Nazism is just plain bullshit – also known as Republican Talking Point #1.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:26 pmHowever, despite their claims, they were never true communists.
Comment by dim wit
You won the cigar, sir.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:27 pmI wonder if McCain knows anything about Hitler’s rise–about the oppressive WWI war reparations and the Washington Naval Conference, etc., and how they contributed? McCain has the intelligence and insight of Dubya!
November 29th, 2007 at 1:31 pm173 – a LEGACY graduate, you mean…? Yeah, OK. I’m impressed.
NOT.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:53 pmHe (Huckabee) also lobbied for and gained the release of a rapist from prison who then went on to rape another woman and kill her. I don’t think a presidential candidate could survive that kind of publicity. Our “liberal†MSM has refused to publish this information so it’s going to take a paid commercial to get this information out to the public.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 29, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
It probably hasn’t been made an issue yet because nobody believes Huckabee will get the nomination. If he does, I fully expect him to be given the “Willie Horton” treatment. A paid commercial will certainly get the ball rolling, then bloggers will pick it up and run with it, and then the MSM will chime in.
It’s kind of a pity, because I think there are more important things to consider in a presidential candidate. But I can see a few disgruntled Dems jumping at the chance to get revenge on Lee Atwater’s treatment of Dukakis.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:19 pmCold hard left, I just cannot believe you are a member of Mensa because your grasp of history and issues is so simple-minded. For example, when you’re posting this: “Communism almost always results in wide-spread oppression.”
What do you mean by “almost always”? If you really understood what the term means, you would know that we have never seen a true communist regime. Those that have tried to be communist regimes have ALWAYS resulted in oppression because of what Marx called “cult of personality.” Not “almost always.” The only freely elected communist in history, Salvador Allende of Chile, may have succeeded in a communist regime without oppression, but we will never know because he was murdered in a U.S. backed military coup. In addition, you’ve shown above that you notice no distinction between democratic socialism and socialism and that you see no distinction between Hitler’s lipservice to the label and the reality of his fascism in the form of power sharing between government and large corporate power.
So, if you really are a Mensa member, you are a very strange one and you really need to crack open a history book NOT edited by objectivists.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:20 pmcold hard left: “However, once admitted, the student must work on his/her own to become a graduate. Keep in mind that Bush obtained degrees not only from Yale, but also from Harvard.”
Again, simple-minded and not very “Mensa.” Everyone who knows the score knows that Ivy-league Universities are very hard to get into, but once in, it’s not that hard to “graduate.” Now, graduating with distinction is tough, but Bush didn’t get close to that. Remember, even with a Grandpa who was a Senator and a Father who was a congressman, he couldn’t get admitted to U. of Texas Law School, which was his first choice and the only reason he was admitted to Harvard Bus. School was because of a generous contribution to them from members of his family. Incidentally, I like to point out that Bush was the 17th legacy at Yale from his family, a string of legacies stretching back to the 1840’s. This is American-style landed aristocracy. If you like that then you like something universally reviled by 90% of the nation’s Founding Fathers.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:35 pmA “Mensa” should now what the Boston Tea Party was about. Indulge me CHL. What do you think it was about?
November 29th, 2007 at 2:37 pmSorry, I meant to write “a Mensa should know….” Don’t want to confuse you.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:38 pmcold hard left: “The Boston Tea Party was about many things Jack. On which would you like me to focus?”
Very illuminating. Sorry, dumbass, but the Boston Tea Party was about just one thing and it’s not what most people think. In fact, it’s the opposite of what most people think.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:46 pmQuickly now. Get on your Wikipedia and find the correct answer if you think they have it there.
November 29th, 2007 at 2:48 pmSorry, I meant to write “a Mensa should know….†Don’t want to confuse you.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 29, 2007 @ 2:38 pm
Actually, it should have been “a MENSAN should know”. Mensa is the organization to which Mensans belong. Like “Rotary” and “Rotarians”.
But I’m just being overly picky… ;-)
November 29th, 2007 at 3:00 pmMy point is that most people belive this amorphous statement that it was about “taxation without representation” which implies that it was about tax increases, when actually it was about a targeted special tax cut for a corporation with special ties to power, something we still see rampant in modern government corruption.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:01 pmCHL – you can argue until you’re completely blue in the face about how smart the Chimp-in-Chief is…
But that sure ain’t gonna make me take you seriously. In fact, it just makes me laugh even harder.
Just sayin’. And you have a nice day, sweets.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:27 pm149 Lt Ripper,
I wonder if you and I may be saying things very close together, looking at different sides of the coin and/or possibly getting into a Chicken Egg Argument.
I’d agree fully that Hitler took advantage of the hard times and the psychological state of the people (and the disconnect between the pride in the long history of Germany and the then current state of affairs).
I’m just focusing more on the fact that the post-WWI sanctions and the natural effect of being a defeated country set up the situations which allowed Hitler to rise. Before someone asks, I’m not even saying that the situation was wrong – Germany was at the heart of a terrible episode in world history; as a defeated war country, it wasn’t uncalled for the victors of the war to exercise both control over the country and also administer a form of punishment for misdeeds. But these very natural effects also helped set the stage for Hitler. And also, of course there were many other factors including the hold of the old aristocracy over the government and their apparent obliviousness to the poor state of affairs.
And along the line of the comment by Bilbo Baggins, it is rather interesting to compare and contrast the similarities and differences between both the national situations of Hitler and Bush and the tactics used by both.
November 29th, 2007 at 6:04 pm190. Lt Col Jack Ripper –
As you’re pointing out, I love the way the “official” history of the US (or most any country) has this very noble veneer while the actual facts are usually a lot more mundane.
November 29th, 2007 at 6:06 pmComment by missmolly — November 29, 2007 @ 11:53 am
“mass redistribution of wealthâ€
Maybe you personally do not advocate taking all inherited wealth, but a few of your fellow libs here are for it. Just how much do you consider an acceptable amount for parents to be able to leave to their children? What if their children have disabilities? Can they leave them more than healthy children? Or do you take 50 or 75% of their wealth no matter what. So you work hard, save your money, make wise investment choices to provide for your family and you don’t have the right to leave what you’ve earned to your family. Nevermind that you were taxed on the money when you earned it. We’ll tax it as highly and as many times as necessary to make sure your children don’t benefit from your success. Sorry, but that constitutes mass redistribution of wealth without even going into taxes and welfare programs.
——
“using class differences to divide peopleâ€
Even when income increases for the majority, libs are mad that those with higher incomes make gains. The constant refrain of “they’re trying to keep (insert any group) down” is never far away.
——
“strong central govtâ€
By strong central govt, I didn’t mean increases during time of emergency and/or war. It’s the peacetime taking of power that’s the problem and the favorite of libs.
——
“limiting ownership of newspapersâ€
– “By “limiting ownership†I assume you mean “creating some room in the marketplace for voices other than the big business conglomerates sympathetic to the Republican viewpoint.†That’s hardly Hitleresque.”
No, actually, by “limiting ownership” I meant “limiting ownership,” which is the lib view. I’m not aware of any laws preventing racial minorities, women, liberals or any other group from owning any form of media. Libs are trying to force govt to place controls on media instead of allowing the people to decide what media succeeds and what doesn’t.
——
What about other Hitler views? Do you see liberals agreeing with his positions on nationalism, racism, homosexuality, abortion, checks and balances in government, personal freedoms, democracy, intellectualism, etc.?
Comment by missmolly — November 29, 2007 @ 11:53 am
I have no problem acknowledging that conservatives share Hitler’s view that homosexuality is wrong. I don’t, however, share his view that they should be persecuted. Abortion? He was against abortion for Aryans and for abortion for all others. So I guess you and I each agree with him partially. ;) Racism? I’m not racist, how about you? I’m all for checks and balances and freedom (not to be taxed excessivley and free to own any business you are able to afford). You have me on nationalism. I happen to think the U.S. is the greatest nation. Don’t read that as meaning we are inherently better than anyone, just that our country is the greatest and worth protecting. Intellectualism? I agree with the need for an educated populace and that life is much more enjoyable for those who have a well rounded education. Unfortunately, for many people, intellectualism now is used to describe those who will adopt any flakey idea just because it is taught by a professor. ;)
November 30th, 2007 at 12:19 amI have never read from you any complain, protest or statement against the situation that the present US admin had/has brought to Iraqis. That tells a lot more than anything you can write about “libsâ€.
Comment by Juan C. — November 29, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
You’ve missed it, because I’ve posted here several times that I don’t think we should have gone into Iraq. I understand why Bush wanted to do something. We had been attacked by muslim extremists. Saddam supported other terrorist groups, had shown he was willing to invade his neighbors without provocation, used WMD’s on his own citizens (again, it doesn’t matter where the WMD’s came from, the people were just as dead), and continually thumbed his nose at the U.N. regarding verification that he had no WMD’s. But I still don’t think we should have gone there. Not that I don’t think we shouldn’t have done something, just that we shouldn’t have sent our people to die there. It’s not worth one American life.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:28 am“govt taking inherited wealthâ€
Sorry, stupid, but this was republican Teddy Roosevelt’s idea and it was completely consistent with most of the Founding Fathers, who did not want to see a European-style “landed aristocracy†set up in our country.
“limiting ownership of newspapersâ€
Unregulated capitalism always results in monopoly. Maybe you haven’t noticed – repubs are the ones pushing unregulated capitalism.
Comment by Ret. Col. Jack Ripper — November 29, 2007 @ 12:37
Why bring Roosevelt into this, bud? In the here and now, it’s libs who want to keep people from leaving the wealth they’ve earned to their children. I don’t know your views on it, but some of your fellow libs are quite vocal about taking most, and in some cases all, of the money people have earned.
Since some Republicans want unregulated capitalism, we have to have govt regulation of the media? Since we don’t have unregulated capitalism, it doesn’t really matter. Now back to the point you avoided. Hitler regulated ownership of newspapers. Libs are pushing for regulation of who can own media outlets. Why is it so hard for you to admit that you share some of Hitler’s views? ;)
November 30th, 2007 at 12:40 amupright left, your opinion regarding the myth that Hitler shared the views of today’s Democrats is absurd, simple-minded and misguided
This is the current RNC talking point. We are going to hear it ad nausium from here to eternity.
Comment by bilbobaggins — November 29, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
This brings us back to my original post. Republican comparisons of Dems to Hitler are the result of the last few years of Dem’s cries of “Nazis” and “fascism.” They are just pointing out that you also share some of Hitler’s views. Sounds quite a bit like the argument over who shared what views with osama in his last tape. If you are going to compare others to a hated figure, you should expect the same in return. It’s hypocritical to refuse to acknowledge your own similarities to said figure. ;)
November 30th, 2007 at 12:58 am