Ashcroft On Waterboading: ‘It’s Not Something I Can Make A Decision On’
Ashcroft On Waterboading: ‘It’s Not Something I Can Make A Decision On’
Last night, John Ashcroft delivered an address on the Cornell University campus “in the face of shouting dissenters and shrouded protesters.” At his last appearance on a student campus, Ashcroft was asked whether he would be willing to be subjected to waterboarding. “The things that I can survive, if it were necessary to do them to me, I would do,” he said.
Last night, Cornell University kept the heat on Ashcroft, repeatedly confronting him about his views on waterboarding.
Prior to his speech, Ashcroft answered students’ questions in the lounge of a resident house on campus where a small reception was held for him. One student in the adjoining dining hall (which shares a common window with the lounge) “taped a piece of paper to a window…asking Ashcroft why waterboarding was not considered torture.” The Cornell Sun reports that Ashcroft “merely stared at the piece of paper without comment.”
The Sun adds that it later followed-up on the question with Ashcroft:
In an interview with the Sun conducted just prior to his speech at Statler Hall, Ashcroft did address the question when it was again posed to him.
“The question of whether or not waterboarding is torture is defined by statute. It’s not something I can make a decision on,” Ashcroft answered. “There are laws about what is torture and what isn’t.”
Ashcroft told the Cornell students “I have no regrets” about his tenure as attorney general, adding “and I have done some crazy things.”
Ashcroft’s dodge on waterboarding is much like the answer former Gov. Mitt Romney (R-MA) tried to give during the CNN/YouTube debate on Wednesday night. Romney claimed he can’t say specifically whether waterboarding is torture or not. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) ripped his equivocation:
McCAIN: I am astonished that you would think such a — such a torture would be inflicted on anyone in our — who we are held captive and anyone could believe that that’s not torture. It’s in violation of the Geneva Convention. It’s in violation of existing law. And, governor, let me tell you, if we’re going to get the high ground in this world and we’re going to be the America that we have cherished and loved for more than 200 years. We’re not going to torture people.
We’re not going to do what Pol Pot did. We’re not going to do what’s being done to Burmese monks as we speak. I suggest that you talk to retired military officers and active duty military officers like Colin Powell and others, and how in the world anybody could think that that kind of thing could be inflicted by Americans on people who are held in our custody is absolutely beyond me.
After the debate, McCain reminded people that Japanese soldiers were tried and hanged for torturing American prisoners during World War II with techniques that included waterboarding.
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It breaks my heart that the Republican Party has made America into a terrorist nation.
It’s our national shame, and a bloodstain on our collective soul that will never be washed away.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:13 pmHere’s a note on this topic that I posted an another site yesterday…
Perhaps some ex-military volunteers could be found to waterboard this disgusting insult to humanity.
A co-worker who was in the military for eighteen years indicated that part of his training was to be waterboarded. He stated that it is so horrible that a person would eventually admit to anything to stop it.
Why not hold the event on national television until Ashcroft admits to raping infants, and once he does, then haul him off to jail?
Ashcroft would need to either stand by his torture-induced confession and spend the next few years in prison, and, as a child rapist, his time there would be, shall we say, “interesting†OR he would need to assume the stance (a wide one, to be sure), that he said what he did only to terminate the feeling of being drowned.
Should he choose the latter option, he could then be asked to explain why we should trust confessions obtained from suspected “terrists†by implementing such procedures.
This could be an extremely popular and lucrative pay-per-view event. Shocking that the MSM hasn’t picked up on this idea yet, huh?
November 30th, 2007 at 12:16 pmCongrats to the Cornell students.
Ashcroft & Mittens are quite similar in egos, bravado and obtuse words.
I don’t know if Mittens is scared of naked breasts on statues, but he was certainly scared to serve our Country.
Ashcroft scares me every time he sings.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pmIt breaks my heart that the Republican Party has made America into a terrorist nation.
To me, they are trying to make it less a terrorist nation, more a Soviet style one.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:17 pmI’m suprized that god hasn’t explained wateboarding during one her converstations with these wingnuts. I know that god is a busy woman, but she could just ask bush, or ashcroft, or huckaberry or robertson to just pass along a message.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:19 pmSo, in order to ‘defeat the terrorists’, it became necessary to become one….
nice logic
November 30th, 2007 at 12:21 pmThe Repukians are lowering our nation to that of neanderthals. Where did these sick, diseased, cretins come from?
Just look at the posts that our resident Trolls post, these people are sick, and where in this country did we breed these kind of sick subhumans?
Is it the water, their relatives with the inbreeding, Faux News, hate radio?
What has made them so immoral and twisted?
Bush/Cheney
Hague Trials ‘09
Buck Fush
November 30th, 2007 at 12:26 pmIt’s funny how “Moral Relativism” is about to destroy the country until someone asks a question with the word “waterboarding” in it. Stuttering and stammering immediately follow.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:26 pmI think we should waterboard that pathetic loser who posts here under the name of John Kerry. The taser the bastard, then tape his eyelids open and blow a fan on his eyes. It’s not torture after all
These sycophant whres who are willing to give up the very principles of our nation so they don’t soil their tighty whiteys should be run out of the country. Piss soaked losers.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:27 pmWhat has made them so immoral and twisted?
MONEY
November 30th, 2007 at 12:27 pmCaption:
‘We have our eye on you’.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:27 pmMONEY
MONEY
MONEY
MONNNEY
MMMMMMMMONEY!
November 30th, 2007 at 12:28 pm“I think the ’surge’ is working,â€
Who said this??
ANSWER: JOHN “the war is a failure†MURTHA!!!
What?????
Can this be? I guess there is a God!!!
HAve a good day libs!
Comment by John Kerry
The surge is only successful if the Iraqis get their political house in order – and they are not doing that.
As always, the right side leaves out the most important part of the quote.
What Murtha actually said was:
I think the ’surge’ is working,” Mr. Murtha, a Democrat, said in a video conference from his Johnstown office, describing the president’s decision to commit nearly 30,000 additional troops at the beginning of the year. “But the thing that has to happen is the Iraqis have to do this themselves. We can’t win it for them.”
With ethnic cleansing and the massive exodus from Iraq, there are simply less people to BE killed. Maybe that’s why the numbers are down?
November 30th, 2007 at 12:30 pmI’ve used the analogy before, but after the forest fire has burned down the forest, you can’t proclaim victory because now fewer trees are dying….
November 30th, 2007 at 12:34 pmDear Ashcroft, Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Republicans, Necocons and Moronic Trolls That Visit This Site:
For your information, waterboarding is TORTURE.
I’ll say it again: waterboarding is TORTURE!
It’s not what America is about. Get it?
November 30th, 2007 at 12:39 pmBut the thing that has to happen is the Iraqis have to do this themselves. We can’t win it for them.â€
Comment by StratRat — November 30, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
Funny little thing, that word “but.” It just changes everything. And kills about 90% of Mr. P’s arguments.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:41 pmHe’s right. It si not something he can make a decision on because the fact that waterboarding is torture is established precedent under US law. It is banned by treaty and the US has participated in the execution of prisoners of war who engaged in the tactic. No, waterboarding wasn’t an issue until some little pipsqueak named W put on his codpiece and pranced around like he knew what he was doing. And since everyone let him get away with it, they’re all now forced to come up with interesting rationales for why what they enabled isn’t really illegal after all.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:45 pmMuch as I can’t stand the sniveling panderer that John McCain has become recently, I do appreciate him standing his ground on this issue. It gives me hope that the other side of the aisle isn’t completely witout redemption.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:48 pm“The question of whether or not waterboarding is torture is defined by statute. It’s not something I can make a decision on,†Ashcroft answered. “There are laws about what is torture and what isn’t.â€
This is bull$hit and his argument is unreasonable.
1) Ashcroft notes torture is defined by statute.
2) Ashcroft is an attorney and he is capable of interpreting statutes.
3) Ashcroft says I cannot make a decision based on statutory law.
Ashcroft is either a liar or an incredibly incompetent attorney.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:51 pmFunny little thing, that word “but.†It just changes everything. And kills about 90% of Mr. P’s arguments.
Comment by toasterhead — November 30, 2007 @ 12:41 pm
Raw logic pretty much takes care of the remaining 10%.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:51 pmAnd since everyone let him get away with it, they’re all now forced to come up with interesting rationales for why what they enabled isn’t really illegal after all.
Comment by po — November 30, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
Yep, and the only rationale they seem to hang on is the now discredited Yoo/Bybee nonsense that pretty much said so long as you don’t kill the prisoner it’s not torture.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:52 pmWhat Murtha actually said was:
I think the ’surge’ is working,†Mr. Murtha, a Democrat, said in a video conference from his Johnstown office, describing the president’s decision to commit nearly 30,000 additional troops at the beginning of the year. “But the thing that has to happen is the Iraqis have to do this themselves. We can’t win it for them.â€
Comment by StratRat — November 30, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
Perhaps you can forgive those of us who did not declare the surge a failure before it even started for taking Murtha’s comments as a bit of a validation that General Petraeus actually had a viable military plan.
It is true that Iraqi politicians are short sighted sectarian fools who don’t seem to grasp how deep the peril of their inaction is. At the same time, there have been grassroots movements – the Sunni Awakening, Mahdi Army ceasefire – that give one cause for hope.
Had the Military aspect of the surge failed as so many on the Left declared it must, the political aspect would not have had a chance. Security is improved – even Murtha of all people admits it. Now the Iraqi government must make compromises within its factions.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:53 pmAshcroft: “The question of whether or not waterboarding is torture is defined by statute. It’s not something I can make a decision on.”
Sounds awfully like Joe Klein’s “I have neither the time nor legal background to figure out who’s right”.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:55 pmMuch as I can’t stand the sniveling panderer that John McCain has become recently, I do appreciate him standing his ground on this issue. It gives me hope that the other side of the aisle isn’t completely witout redemption.
Comment by toasterhead — November 30, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
I agree, but you know how they say “a conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged”? Same thing here.
The others have the luxury of debating about torture because they’ve never been tortured. McCain has. It’s not theoretical to him. Jack Bauer doesn’t have much sway anymore.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:55 pm“The question of whether or not waterboarding is torture is defined by statute. It’s not something I can make a decision on,†Ashcroft answered. “There are laws about what is torture and what isn’t.â€
Ashcroft went on to explain, “Why would anyone think I know jack about the law? Did you forget who appointed me Attorney General?”
November 30th, 2007 at 12:57 pmBut it’s like World War II!
We’re fighting for our ideals and our very existence, and so therefore we have to treat our prisoners horribly, deprive them of their dignity, mock them, beat them outrage their personal modesty, torture them, kill them!
We can show no mercy to those who have tried to kill us!
Yes.
It’s just like World War II.
But not on the Allies’ side.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:01 pm“Robbery” is the act of seizing another’s property through violence or intimidation. “Armed robbery” is the act of robbery committed with a weapon. When somebody threatens another with a weapon and demands their victim hand over money or other property, we have no problem calling that what it is — armed robbery.
The concept of armed robbery is pretty simple — one we can all grasp. It’s pretty much considered indefensible, except to those who are guilty of it or have a family member who is.
So it should be with torture. Why is this a controversial topic? Why do Ashcroft, Romney, and so many other apologists for this administration have a problem defining it? Why can’t they state that waterboarding is so obviously a torture procedure?
Must be a family member is guilty of it.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:05 pmI hope Ashcroft is hounded with these sort of questions for the rest of his life.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:15 pmSecurity is improved – even Murtha of all people admits it. Now the Iraqi government must make compromises within its factions.
Comment by Keltoi
Improved security is a statistic based on the number of sectarian murders and killings – among other things.
As I stated, if the sheer number of ‘potential’ victims is lower, it stands to reason the number of ‘actual’ victims will also be lower. This lowered casualty figure, in some small way, can be attributed to the surge, but more than likely it is based more on my initial points (exodus and ethnic cleansing).
And still, since the surge was supposed to provide ‘breathing room’ for the politicians, we still have to consider the dubious success based on this important benchmark.
If the surge doesn’t do what it was put in place to do: breathing room for political discussions and compromises, then one cannot call the surge a success no matter how low the killing statistic is.
The right side talking points generally try to elevate the success and downplay the failure, and I see that happening in this instance. If the surge does not improve the political reconciliation (it’s intended goal), then it is a failure.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:18 pm“Without a serious effort at national conciliation, American troops are just holding down the lid on a pressure cooker. Iraq’s rival militias, the insurgents, the bitter sectarian resentments and the meddling neighbors haven’t gone anywhere,†writes The New York Times in an editorial today.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:33 pmRight stratrat, and their argument will fall apart when the violence rises in response to the refugees returning home after being kicked out of Syria. Of course the trolls will simply argue that the increase in violence is just evidence of the deadenders’ desperation…
November 30th, 2007 at 1:35 pmOf course the trolls will simply argue that the increase in violence is just evidence of the deadenders’ desperation…
Comment by Bobwurst — November 30, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
Either that, or they’ll claim it’s because the terrorists are emboldened by the attitudes of libruls here in the U S of A.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:42 pm“The question of whether or not waterboarding is torture is defined by statute. It’s not something I can make a decision on,†Ashcroft answered. “There are laws about what is torture and what isn’t.â€
And by gum, U.S. law has already defined waterboarding as torture.
So he’s sidestepping the obvious. Why don’t these stupid fux just plead the 5th. They’re guilty as sin.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:42 pmFor more on waterboarding…
http://tshirtinsurgency.com/gitmo-shirt
November 30th, 2007 at 1:44 pmAnd by gum, U.S. law has already defined waterboarding as torture.
Comment by DieNowForPeace
And how is Ashcroft supposed to know that? What do think he is, a lawyer?
November 30th, 2007 at 1:46 pmwell, the troll “John Kerry” wins the day. He managed to divert the topic of waterboarding to the success (or not) of the surge. Those of you who responded to him….you are way smarter than that guy…don’t play with morons.
Speaking of morons, Ashcroft has largely proven himself to be one cept that one shining moment when he was in the hospital. Guess he thought he was going to die, and didn’t want to meet his Maker continuing to support the destruction of the U.S. Constitution. He feels better now, obviously. I don’t agree with much of anything McCain ever stands for, other than campaign contribution reform, earmark reform and certainly, the issue of torture. He’s right on target by acknowledging waterboarding as torture…and that torture is illegal, both under U.S. and international law.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:51 pmWhat do think he is, a lawyer?
Well, at least he wasn’t the worst AG, ever!
November 30th, 2007 at 1:52 pmBut a close second, yes.
“We can show no mercy to those who have tried to kill us!”
Well, those that “tried to kill us” actually succeeded in killing thousands of US. Last I checked, all the Sauds, and the handful of others, on the 4 9/11 planes perished, just like the non-terrorist passengers.
And, the better part if you want to live on the moral high ground, those that some in this country think we should be waterboarding aren’t terrorist. Just because someone got handed over to the US military (or CIA) or was captured by US forces somewhere in a foreign land (which just might happen to be that person’s own) does not mean they want to kill anyone. It’s just as likely that they are in the wrong place at the wrong time. So waterboard away. And enjoy what you’re told. Too bad it ain’t likely to be true. But it makes for good stories, great television and, apparently, makes the heart of those who live in fear beat stronger.
November 30th, 2007 at 1:52 pmAschcroft and the other criminals of the Republican party must avoid a full and frank discussion of water boarding. They know that their actions are in violation of the Geneva Conventions, a binding treaty and part of the laws of the United States. They know that they are in violation of the specific federal statutes. The Republican war criminals will never admit to the truth. They attempt to obfuscate and confuse what are actually simple laws.
These are war criminals. They believe that their means justifies the ends. They are no different in that respect than the terrorists we fight.
November 30th, 2007 at 2:09 pmAnd STILL Asscrack is out speechifying, not testifying before the Judiciary Cmtees.
November 30th, 2007 at 2:57 pmCan’t we PLEASE just cut to the chase and waterboard Ashcroft on if he knew of any improprieties in the WH ?
November 30th, 2007 at 5:21 pmFor footage of protest:
November 30th, 2007 at 10:48 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/user/WatermarginCoop
Let’s get something straight about torture. It’s not about extracting information. Professional interrogators have known this for centuries. Torture is about forcing compliance. The most common objective of torture is a signed confession. In most cases the torturer is fully aware that the confession is false. Torture often provides pretext for a course of action. For example, if you require an excuse for military action against a nation or group, you can torture a captive into confirming some transgression or conspiracy, such as a link between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda, or a nuclear weapons program in Iran. Torture is thus a political tool, a means to achieving control, not a truth serum.
November 30th, 2007 at 11:36 pmThere is one way (and only one way) to cleanse our collective souls and global reputation on this issue: High-ranking people have to go to jail and do hard time over it. Anything short of criminal prosecution is not quite a repudiation.
I wonder whether any of the presidential candidates have the stones to do that. Kuch and Edwards seem like they might, but I do not know for sure. I fear (and expect) that there will be no accountability and the resulting damage will be permanent.
December 1st, 2007 at 7:41 amMaybe Jay Rockefeller and Diane Feinstein can introduce a bill providing retroactive amnesty for any government official or private contractor who has engaged in “enhanced interrogation” techniques.
December 1st, 2007 at 5:19 pm#38 RUCerious
Give him time. He still has time to gain a victory in the contest. The fat lady hasnt sung yet although she does have a sheet hung over her to hide her nudity.
December 1st, 2007 at 8:24 pmes, torture the teddy bear teacher . . . she can’t tell you much, but she can set an example. . . You superpower bully. Don’t mess with Islam . . . we will take your best and brightest and permanently damage them.
Tit for tat . . . Bush never got out of the school yard that he was never in. Bush policies have consequences, unfortunately, others pay the price.
December 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pm